Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hardcase on July 19, 2002, 03:18:18 PM
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Go have a gander at some of what is coming.
Cant seem to post the url..but head for http://www.wwiionline.com and at Forum Annoucements, Production Notes, Dev Notes 0167 there are some pix of the new textures.
hardcase
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http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/news.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1808347043.1027032392@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcejcdjffdbjjcgmcggichhl.0
Here ya go Rip :) They look real nice especialy the grass!
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confusion say:
A turd wrapped in silk still smells bad.
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Infrantry looking through tall grass looks like he can see abit better looks good. But does it hide him well enough from others trying to find him? Heard problems in past concerning that.
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Originally posted by AcId
confusion say:
A turd wrapped in silk still smells bad.
now aren't you sorry you got all that silk? :eek:
j/k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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(http://www.kolumbus.fi/fishu/trash/pzingrassp22.jpg)
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I must admit that the screen shots are very good. In particular I am impressed by the image from an infantry standpoint looking through the grass. Next time they do a "Welcome Back Soldier" I may even take a gander.
Things that I am still waiting for that these images do not convey:
1) Will there be rubble in the streets? When I played long ago, city fighting was akin to green army men in a city of shoe boxes.
2) Are the building still treated as a monolithic structure? When I played long ago, the entire building could be destroyed and everyone in it killed if you kept firing at the same corner.
3) Has the issue of the night time "gamma cheaters" been addressed? Or does the the switch to 8.1 correct this.
4) How lond does one still need to wait in the vehicle hanger with your AT gun pleading for a tow before someone shows?
5) Has any work been done on the FM or can you still loop forever without loss of altitude or dogfight the Spit I's with your Stuka?
Thanks
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if my jstick ever breaks, I might give it a try.
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Have they figured out why their game doesn't recognize USB joysticks yet? I left because I couldn't get it to see mine, and none of the Rats' tech support seemed to give a hoot.
I wish em luck though, some day when I can afford a Cray, I might give em another shot.
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I saw these shots this morning, and immediately knew hardcase would post them here...
shhhh!
Hear that?
It's the sound of someone beating a dead horse.
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naa, its far from dead. You know, when CRS has another 2 week freebie for all, i will prolly post here again:D
Did you like the new look anyway?
hardcase
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I'll look again after a damage audit and subsequent fixes.
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Hey Hardcase, I've got a P4, 1.3ghz, with 512 PC800RDRam, and a G-force 128meg video card, and I've got a DSL connection. Think I can get maybe 15fps flying? Are they there yet?
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I can take a great screen shot of a pile of toejam but it's still a pile of toejam none the less!
Game still sucks!
Move along!
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Hardcase....
Call me when they release vs. 4.0 :D
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WWII is just eye candy, have you ever tried to fly in there? Its horrible plus you cant even look back in your cockpit. No thankyou, I would rather pay the $15 dollars for good game play then $10 for good looks.:D
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Funny thing, the graphics in OFP are more detailed and yet even when I have my view range set to 2000meters in OFP my frame rate is much higher than what it is in WWIIonline, offline .
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Hardcase:
Will wwiiol ever be a free download-free two week trial-pay via credit card?
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you can forget about realistic flight modeling in wwiiol. they don't care about planes. contrary to what they might tell you, its an squad based infantry game, with planes and armor thrown in for flavor. basically, quake.
so you would think they would improve the infantry play with a few neccesities like smoke grenades and binoculares, pivot mounted heavy mgs and off map artilliary.
instead thet give you nicer lawns, and steeper system requirements. :rolleyes:
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When they do a 2 week freebie, you simply d/l the sim, and use some Generic Rat supplied CD key code to start the account.
Reason you cant look backward in your AC is cause things like pilot armor and seat rest prevent a 180 degree Linda Blair look. Sim vs Arcade, don't ya know?
Blurb about new video cars is not quite being read correctly. Rats are coding for DX 8.1. With this in mind, the voodoo 3 and such which may never have 8.1 compliant drivers are no longer being supported(coded to be usable). Some ppl will simply have to join the 21st century if that want all the bells and whistles. Rats have said that these cards may well work, but they are not going to code for them.
Turd..it improves every release. Does take getting the max out of low end systems to fly. PPL with very marginal systems still enjoy the Infantry portion. If all you ever want to do is fly, that requires the most of a machine. If you can stomach doing some ground war, you can find a lot of fun for your 33 cents a day, ever with a 500 celeron.
Played the beta last night, and it does look nice, new weapons etc.
hard
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What a bad reputation!
Gonna be tuff to get players to go thru that hell again HC. The bottom line is things are still broken with gameplay. Please don't compare wwiiol with sims, it is the true arcade game, called Quank. AH is a complete, mature simulation that offers players a NECK, and a 3D cockpit. Skillful programing. We can't flip tanks with our gear. Poor programming that. Arcade griefing for an arcade game. Enjoy!
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sim vs. arcade?
granted wwiiol has nice graphics and good squad based infantry play.
but it isn't even close in the 'flight sim' catagory. forget comparisons there, ok?. it's just not happening.
the wwiiol view system is typical 'head swiveling in top of stick', found in lots of flight sims. AH's view system models the more real fact that pilots could lean left and right and foward, and look back over their shoulders.
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After paying $39.99 for it when it was released,it will be a cold day in Hell before CRS gets another dime of my money.
Hard to believe that rotting carcass on the freeway still has a pulse.
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I can see a bit of hypocrisy on our (AH fans) side. We are quick to point out the lacking flight model of WW2OL but what can be said of the AH modelling of ground combat? Quite laughable at best in comparison to WW2OL is it not?
Lonz
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DmdBT-
I don't care about the ground war- if I did, I would still be a WWIIOL subscriber (just cancelled my account). I do care about the air war, and it just isn't happening for me there. I don't have a problem really with anything but the damage model, and right now it is a one-plane sim because of it. I think a lot of the LW pilots that think things are perfect might understand a bit better if they had the mgs and the Allies had the cannon, but they are quite happy with the status quo. The Rats always deny anything is wrong as an intitial reaction, and don't seem interested in looking at it. It was at the point where it became difficult to find opposition in the air, and when I did it was either ridiculously easy to kill and escape (in a 109 or 110) or frustrating and decidedly un-fun to go for PKs on very small targets that could not be otherwise killed (in a Hawk or Hurri).
If that's real, it ain't real fun.
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Originally posted by Weave
Hey Hardcase, I've got a P4, 1.3ghz, with 512 PC800RDRam, and a G-force 128meg video card, and I've got a DSL connection. Think I can get maybe 15fps flying? Are they there yet?
The other day I went and got a Geforce4 64meg card (wish I would have gotten the 124 meg but they said they didn't carry them anymore).
I've got a 1.2 gig AMD wit 512 pc133 ram. I went from the geforce 2 mx 32 meg card. Before I was flying in 800x600 16 bit res with ALL graphics options turned off or to thier lowest setting. I'd do 'ok' flying in a clear area and used to get 20-30fps in small battles. That would drop to 10-15 fps in large battles or around large cities.
now
I play at 1024x768 32 bit res (this stops the alpha banding on the buildings and trees :) ) with all graphics options turned on excetp - shadows still off, texture reduction is still on, 4xFSAA works but it gets down to 15fps around cities so I turned it off. my frame rates are from 30-60 fps in small battles and 20-30 fps in large battles or around large cities. Every so often it dips down to 18fps or so when it's loading new textures. This made all the diference in the world for flying! I can track targets with no problem now what so ever. And I can actually see ground units now (inf and aaa guns) to kill them :) there's LOTS of inf to kill now too! It's easy to find groups of 20+ infantry hiding in trees and buildings, the poor bastards.
Inf is real fun now too, but it's SLOW paced most of the time. I'll climb a tree and stay there for the whole evening sometimes finaly logging off at bed time when I've sniped 20 or 30 inf :)
sounds are 100% better now too :) they still need work but I can testify that it will scare the crap out of you hearing a bf110 making a 20mm strafing run on your group of inf ;) or hearing a group of stukas turn on thier sirens on thier dive bomb run at your base.
This game in now way competes with AH or WB in my opinion. If your a lone wolf type person WW2 can suck bad. I did a mission with a squad last night that lasted about 2 hours before I got whacked reconning a town :)
It's a really good game now, where it should have been at release.....
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I have an XP1800+ (@1900+ speed)
512mb SDRam
g4mx 64mb DDR(28.32)
XP Pro
I get 55 fps offline at 1024x768x32bpp in 109 cockpit engine running
I get 20-35 fps online in the same situation
I get 10-15 fps in a furball
I get major frame rate pauses in flight...
I get gfx glitches related to zbuffer no matter what settings i use for video
I spend my money where i enjoy the game/sim... AH
If i was only in it for the tanks, i'd play ww2ol, but hey i'm not...
SKurj
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Kieran,
It's easy to escape only because you can't be killed from 700 meters and the icons arent so clear :>
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Do you really want to discuss the diddlyed sight they put in french tanks and AT ?
Or the real state of the art armor model ?
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Originally posted by KG45
sim vs. arcade?
AH's view system models the more real fact that pilots could lean left and right and foward, and look back over their shoulders.
It even models the pilots ability to loosen his harness.. lean all the way forward in his seat, crank his head around 180 degrees and pull a 6 G turn without being forced back into said seat :)
Guys.. WW2OL still has problems, sure. But puhleeze don't treat the view system as one of them. If ya wanna talk arcade view/icon systems... AH leads the way in that regard :)
But then again, even HT has never described AH as a 'sim'.
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il2's view system sux the most!!!
if il2 had even ww2ol's view system i'd fly it more...
I don't have a prob with the ww2ol view system but to be able to adjust yer head position for obstructions is the best method imo
with or without the linda blair view
SKurj
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Fishu-
Do you or do you not think there is a prob with the damage model?
I am not complaining about the flight models- those are fine. I am talking about either a bullet modeling system that is seriously flawed and biased toward cannon armament (that is, mgs aren't likely to accumulate) or a damage model that is broken. You know as well as I do the 109 can only be shot down with a fool in the cockpit. Part of this has to do with the fact engines won't seize and the skin of the aircraft deflects .303s for the most part. This I contend is not accurate.
Don't tell me stories about how AAA damaged your 109 (standard LW argument)- the question is whether .303s should. If a guy unloads a five-second burst at close range, something should pop off or the engine should quit. Once again, you and I both know this seldom happens.
If I am wrong (not likely) then it still comes down to the fact the game is not fun in the air at the moment. If this is real, it isn't real fun.
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...oh, and respond to the question and issue, not some dodge on what you think is wrong with AH...
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I think I remember reading somewhere that the ability to turn your head 180 in AH is a concession to not having a rear view mirror in the planes.
They couldn't get it to work properly or it had to big framerate hit,
something like that. :)
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until rats model debris falling off when hitting an ac, I dont have a clue as to how many of my shots are hitting or just missing. The ac skin is modeled to take damage and reflect it in poorer handling. How many holes and how badly slowed the ac is if you hit it is tough to see right now. I think the damage model is better that you think it is, but that is just an opinion, since I am not privy to the code.
hardcase
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Originally posted by Kieran
Fishu-
Do you or do you not think there is a prob with the damage model?
I am not complaining about the flight models- those are fine. I am talking about either a bullet modeling system that is seriously flawed and biased toward cannon armament (that is, mgs aren't likely to accumulate) or a damage model that is broken. You know as well as I do the 109 can only be shot down with a fool in the cockpit. Part of this has to do with the fact engines won't seize and the skin of the aircraft deflects .303s for the most part. This I contend is not accurate.
Don't tell me stories about how AAA damaged your 109 (standard LW argument)- the question is whether .303s should. If a guy unloads a five-second burst at close range, something should pop off or the engine should quit. Once again, you and I both know this seldom happens.
If I am wrong (not likely) then it still comes down to the fact the game is not fun in the air at the moment. If this is real, it isn't real fun.
hey Keiren,
I know when I'm in a 110 on a mud moving mission my biggest fear other than allied aaa guns is a Hurr getting behind me. it only takes a 2 second burst in one of the engines to catch that thing on fire! I know I've flamed a bunch when Im in a hurr, just aim at the engine. Pilot kills/wounds are what bring me down most times though.
Also when I'm in the 109 I've noticed that if I hit with 20mm usually they just go flopping or spinning down because I knocked off a wing. I hardly ever see fire with the 20mm, but when I kill with the MG they always catch fire. So now I shoot with both MG and 20mm and they catch fire after a good short burst :)
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Kieran,
Reflects?
Same could be said of hurri and hawk vs. 20mm, if you say that .303 reflects from 109.
Yesterday I shot down 109 with 1-2 rifle hits..
Damage model could be better for the planes, but no, definately not 'reflecting' bullets.
Even HE111 gets shot up with handful of bullets.
Maybe you should just learn to *hit* the plane, so those bullets wouldn't just 'reflect' off :D
Besides that, 109s 2x7.92mm is perfectly fine for shooting down the planes.
In matter of fact, I prefer 8x.303 over 2x20mm/2x7.92mm when it's about killing planes.
More accurate with better volume of fire, gets much easier critical shots. (and seems to penetrate better through the plane, instead of exploding on contact)
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>>jekyll --even models the pilots ability to loosen his harness.. lean all the way forward in his seat, crank his head around 180 degrees and pull a 6 G turn without being forced back into said seat<<
agreed it's unrealistic at 6 G's, but i (and i'm sure most pilots) only spend a tiniest fraction of any flight at 6 g's. the AH view system allows for better SA and target search when cruising to and from target, which is 90% of any sortie. and in tandem seat planes, they could lean over and look straight behind them, like in a mossie or ju-88.
this is where the realism factor kicks in. pilots moved their upper bodies around and craned their neck to maximize their vision. they didn't sit with backs glue to the seat 100% of the flight.
(unless they were pulling 6 g's, in which case they were probably blacking out anyway)
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Maybe you should just learn to *hit* the plane, so those bullets wouldn't just 'reflect' off
Typical condescending reply. I expected that from you, unfortunately.
I *hit* the plane just fine, especially when it fills the recticle. It's just, unless you *hit* the pilot of a 109, it probably won't go down. When I fly LW I can use MG only and kill stuff in the same situation. Seems *hitting* isn't the problem. *Hitting* a/c in that game is no more difficult than it is here, I hate to break the news to you. You may have to be closer, but that is not difficult. What is difficult is to *hit* the relatively small kill zone of one particular plane.
BTW, you didn't address the hit accumulation issue.
I call BS on your ascertation you prefer 8x.303s. Seems unlikely that a LW-oriented pilot such as yourself would spend an equivalent amount of time in Allied rides. Further, suggesting the .303s in that game have greater killing power than the cannon is ludicrous. One *hit* of 20mm and any Allied plane is crippled.
Any schmoe can run a string of 4-6 kills in a 109 or 110 and survive. Not just any schmoe can do it in the Allied a/c. Speed and hitting power are decisively Axis biased (as they should be), but the question remains whether or not .303s do a realistic amount of damage. Having seen many 109s continue to fight for 15-20 trailing black smoke, I also question other aspects of the damage model. You don't see any Allied a/c do this, and truthfully, no other LW a/c.
To give you the DoA analogy, the 109 is the Camel of WWIIOL. It's getting to the point where people are sick of getting smacked, and are turning LW. Funny thing, the second they go LW their IQ seemingly increases tenfold, and they become tactical and ACM geniuses, offering such sage advice as, well...
Maybe you should just learn to *hit* the plane, so those bullets wouldn't just 'reflect' off
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Kieran,
What I know of WWIIOL fighters, it isn't much use to try hit the wings.
You shoot 3 things on these planes; engine, fuel tank and the pilot.
In 109 fuel tank is behind the pilot, while in hurri it is in front.
News flash; I've actually spent more time in allied fighters than in 109 in last few months.
I've mostly flown Bf110.
That isn't exactly any super plane.. at least in Hurri's I enjoy when I see one of those big targets, which gets hurt even in wings, unlike other fighters. (fuel tank & engines)
When I shoot allied fighters, I hardly see smoke.. they just veer down after while.
Only thing that I see often actually smoking in allied arsenal, is Blenheim. (for some reasons bombers in WWIIOL feels even weaker than fighters.. blen and he111 goes down in instant)
I prefer 20mm more for killing tanks, than killing airplanes.
With 8x.303, all you need to do is to get one good snap shot and thats it.. it's easier to take snap shots with .303's at critical spots, since you're almost guaranteed to hit and with good aim large volume of fire hits critical spots and very likely pilot is in the way of these bullets, which doesn't care is it 20mm or .303, both kills.
With those 'laser guns' (so much tracers) I feel more accurate as well.
My DoA analogy; DVa kills Camel with ease.
Have you already forgot me from DoA? I killed bunch of Camels in DoA, without a single problem.
Pranha & his wingyman being downed few times by my DVa.
Otherwise I could say same about allied IQ, so doesn't that mean we are even?
Just look at yourself, you're not discussing any better here...
So whats the difference?
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20mm mgff for killing tanks ????
thats a about roadkill dont ya think?
I thought 50cals killing tanks was bad.
The fm there is arcade. You may like it for what ever reason but the air games is weak.
I just uninstalled right after I retried the "welcome back sucker" freebe they ran.
I do however agree that shooting planes down is way easier with .303 planes. 110s and 109s burn easy. The he 111 burns easier. It was supposed to have been one of the "toughest" bombers the lw had. Not it wwiiol.
The terrain looks good from the air but the pee soup haze layer is stupid.
The hole capture the flag thing is no different there then any other fps shooter or ah or wbs. They could have came up with a better way to advance the fronts.
I will give it another go after the next big release (1.67?) after that if it still sux then fug it.
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The difference is, I wanted to discuss specific issues with the damage model. You suggested I was merely missing. I have been around sims a while, you know this, you surely must assume I know when I am close enough to shoot? I have about six months of WWIIOL under my belt, I have a pretty fair idea what a good shot is and isn't there.
Yes, you are a good shot and pilot, I have never said otherwise. That, however, is not germaine to the topic. The issue is whether or not there is a problem with one specific caliber of weapons WRT damage on one particular plane. Mo himself has posted about seeing a discrepancy, but didn't have time to look into it. This would seem to suggest there is a problem.
The "there's nothing wrong, just learn to blah, blah, blah" approach is always used, then later an adjustment is made reflecting what the people had been saying all along. That one flips back and forth between sides, and shouldn't be taken as bias. It does however indicate the "circling of the wagons" mentality prevalent. The Axis was right to complain of 20mm rounds doing relatively little damage to Allied a/c. There is nothing wrong with the lethality of those rounds presently IMHO, but it took complaining and many denials before something was finally done. We are now witnessing the same process, except it is now the other side. Something is clearly wrong; the issue of whether something gets done is probably more "when" than "if".
Telling anyone to "learn where to shoot"... you're not paying attention. I *know* where to shoot- the cockpit. I can get kills, and did (you must be assuming I didn't). That does not negate that pouring ammo into control surfaces should cause degradation of performance. It does not negate that engines should seize. It does not negate fuel should run out. These are disjarring attributes of the game for me personally.
Defenders of the status quo will always sidestep these issues and say "well, I can get kills, it must be you", or "learn your planes weaknesses, adapt", "you just want it handed to you". Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even the rifle caliber weapons should shred components on a/c in a way that destroys their ability to maneuver. This works against Allied and most Axis a/c, save one. It doesn't matter they CAN be killed, we all know they can. The question is whether or not conditions exist in the game that make it relatively ahistorically difficult to do so.
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Originally posted by Wotan
20mm mgff for killing tanks ????
thats a about roadkill dont ya think?
I thought 50cals killing tanks was bad.
A13 has only 6mm armour, that is penetrable even by MG :)
Thats the tank I kill with cannons.
Kieran,
If you failed to notice, that was a joke.. sarcasm.
Even equipped with smiley :D
Those rifles are fearsome.. I learned that yesterday in test.
Stuka doesn't like getting pilot hit at all.. even slight wound, which causes red screen and that somewhat stupid 'loss of control' due to small scratch, added with total lack of up trim in stuka - causes stuka to crash.
Stuka below 250kph - trims can't keep it level, lacks.
and it took rifle hits into pilot surprisingly easy..
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The latest promo video is very good, very informative. I play WW2OL occassionaly as something a little different to Aces High which is the main sim I play. One of my problems with WW2OL is they don't model any debry from planes that are getting the snot blown out of them all you get is a cheesy puff of smoke that occasionally changes colour. This problem can be further seen in the promo video where a Stuka (and later on a He111 I believe) takes critical hits and moves violently as if to lose a wing or wing tip that has totally taken away all stability and yet in both instances the airframe is intact and stays that way even after hitting the ground. It's a fun sim to play and the tank warfare is rather good but there are just the small little niggles that annoy, dropping undercarriage at any speed (some have even used it to help them turn) I hope as well as the new terrain artwork they go back over the planes and add visible damage to the airframe such as broken wings.
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I also seem unable to maintain a steady course when bombing, it appears there is no autopilot when in the bombardier view which is quite alarming as the bombsight takes more time to calibrate than AH's (actually very nicely modelled) such a shame.
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Lack of autopilot is bad.. especially in planes where it should be.
Flying He111 for 30 minutes and then trying to bomb could be considered quite a job.
Can't leave it for half a minute alone.
pretty straining flights.
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wotan, what would be a better way to signify control of a ab or civ bldg?
hard
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(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/Screens/kursk1.jpg)
Heres a quick map,
The blue and purple dot would be forward bases.
the red and gold dot would be army/front hqs.
The front would be broken up by Armies. An army would be in control of a section of the front. Army hqs would control the FBs on it section of front.
Hqs would need to be at large twns that have rail and road access for supplies. The frontline bases can be placed any where as long as there is road access for supply.
Towns and building capture would be irrelevant. Thy army hqs could be placed by ai or have the side command staff place them. AI could do it by placing the HQS at xx miles from the front and at the closest city with supple access.
The forward bases could be placed by the sider command staff or by ai similiar to the HQ placement. They would need supply access and XX miles from an HQ.
Encirclements could take place where whole armies are trapped in a pocket. Assaults could be planned the breach the front etc.
Armybases and building control is irrelevant to territory.
DoD does flag capture way better then wwiiol.
Fighting would be spread out from just the towns. There would need to be limits like there are now on tank spawning You could even add another sub-base in between the army hq and forward bases.
I could go on on but you get the picture.
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What happens if no players want to be in a particular army?..
So, analyze what will happen to gameplay as each air, land sea component operates on your setup. How long to reach any fight given something is taken? How will you surround an army that no one is logged into? ABs and Civ Bldg are relevent as they move the fights one way or the other which a method of moveing the territory of the fight. Seems like too much control of a player that the player won't do. Tell me how this will play better than what is in place, that doesnt require a complete rework of the map(which would be a lot of coding) Nice map but I would think you need now do it in depth with mind gameplay.
As for DOD doing it better, ww2ol is a tad more complex than DOD.
hardcasse
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what happens now if no one spawns at an ab?
Then what?
If you dont defend it you lose it.
I thought them servers were supposed to hold 10000 folks?
Theres plenty of truck rushes that grab flags with no defenders. You could use the "mission" system thats in place to encourage folks to spawn in particular army. AI messages that say xx has broken through at xx. You also actually put that command structure to use in planning sonewhat realistic campaigns.
From a gameplay standpoint imho that game a is pos. I appreciate you fan bois holding the line but all you have is a large capture the flag arena. I kept a paid account there till 1.55 then said f it. Never played more then a few hours week. My squad of 22 disolved the 1st month the after the release. From what udie says about camping in a tree all night doesnt sound like fun.
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Also when you log in you could pick an army hq and from there find out which area of the front heavy fighting is at. Much better then 1 guy killin the ai and sneaking about in between buildings stealing radios.
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Wotan, have you played the new version? No man can take a town now. You can't truck rush behind the lines, a completely different gameplay for capping. One reason that the front line is now moving more slowly. Taking a town requires full cooperation from land and air and somtimes sea. What you use as an example is gone.
hardcase
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a reinstalled for the 2 week deal and jumped on a tank as an inf went to nearby by town and snagged half the town as nme inf spawned I hid and killed a couple. They took the buildings back I waited took umm again. then hid some more got a couple more kills. then snuck into the ab as I was running to the bunker a nme tank spawned. I stopped and throw some grenades at it but I could have made the bunker. Unfortunately he killed me.
But it was hardly action packed. Had I known where all the buildings were I most likely could have got them all. As a matter of fact when I respawned and ran back to that town (took a fediddlein hour) it was captured just as I entered the town.
I keep hearing how great it is. But have yet to see it. My fps are fine no comp problems except when i am in the air and over fly an area where there lotsa other folks. I get abit of stutttering and fps drop but it settles.
My reasons for not liking it are mostly gameplay.
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Taking all the bldgs would have done you know good..
you take a bldg, a timer starts and for the next 10 mins there is no table radio in the abs to let them be captured. You hold your bldg or all of them but you must do it for 10 mins, while the defenders spawn and come at you. If they take back all the bldgs you have taken then the timer resets. One man is not gonna take defended spawn point. Towns behind the lines and out of supply dont have capturable bldgs at all, so truck rushes are out of the question. Things have changed and none of these settings are in stone, they are subject to change. The 10 mins is being considered to be changed to a lower number cause holding a bldg for 10 mins is proving difficult, but taking a town can be done, just takes a lot of cooperation.
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ah see I didnt know about the ten minute timer :)
I dont have any of the maps and would never have found all the buildings in ten minutes but someone / folks did.
But the whole take the town/flag capture thing aint for me. Thats been done and done better.
Without some sort of real "front" then the whole idea of "Blitzkreig" is pointless. The panzers would have moved around these "towns"/ pockets and encircled them. They would have then been cleared out be the follow up forces.
Even the Stuka whos historic roll was as medium bomber with precision attack capability is not put to its proper usage. It was neither intended as tactical ground attack aircraft nor as strategic bomber. It was intended for an intermediate level - the operational level.
Unlike tactical attack aircraft that were employed against frontline targets, the Stuka was seen as a weapon to strike at targets behind the front, destroying communications and decimating units on the march before they could reach the front (or before they could reform on the retreat). In modern terms, it was not meant for Close Air Support but for Battlefield Area Interdiction.
Even things like gliders and paratroopers if modeled would be useless with the current capture system.
109es and 110s werent straffing and killing tanks with mgff. Theres a whole list of things that arent right with how wwiol the game is played that remove it from a credible wwii combat sim/game.
Its still capture the flag on a big map with less action then wbs, ah, DoD, wolfenstein, etc.........
These games make up for their lack of realism with gameplay and action.
I cant imagine an eastern front version of wwiiol based of the current model.
It would be even more a joke then it is now.
The terrain looks great though, the tanks are fun when you find some good fights. The inf model looks better but is still ugly imho. The aircraft look ok but are by far easier to fly then any other flight sim/game out there. I have heard the terms easy mode, arcade to describe it.
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Wotan,
Let's see this compared to AHs..
There is 'flag humping' in AH as well.. first you take out the surrounding flags (AA), keep defenders down (players), which after you bring the grunts (flag humpers) into the scene and let them go in the bunker (funny.. don't we go in the bunker also in WWIIOL?)
I don't see difference there what comes to capturing something, only thing is way the capture flags are represented, since planes obviously can't be running around capping the flags, so they the 'flags' have made to suit them better.
So it's basically same capture pinball.
but problem really is that you can't really achieve any benefit from encirceling towns... in fact enemy towns couple lines behind, can magically supply tanks far behind frontline after they capture one town around them, which is clearly wrong.
but come on now, you can't be seriously complaining about usage of Stuka.
Are you implying that players are utilizing equiptment in other games like those were to be used in real life?
Im yet to see such game...
Ackstar B17s around airfields doesnt sound quite realistic either, do they? (sure there was AB17s, but they weren't dogfightning over AFs, they were going with formation)
"109es and 110s werent straffing and killing tanks with mgff"
Same strafing thing happens in AH as well... so what is actually the point of the argument?
I see this pretty much happen in every game.
Overall, most of your arguments are invalid.
Players will utilize equiptment wrong as long as they don't have to fear loss of life nor to strightly obey the commands.
It happens in every game, so it is rather bad ranting point for one game.
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CC on the timer thing..AND...there is attrition of the major pieces of equipment. Spawners at some ab can completly deplete say A13s for the brit side, leaving only the basic spawn of inf, tank gun and a truck and even INF attrition is being looked at. The problem with your truelife war is that...you ahve to have some place for players to get refitted. Players in tanks can outrun their supply line and suddenly you have a MMOLRPG that requires ppl to drive 5 hours to reach the front. Rats knew that they needed to keep driving down to 5 mins to a battle from a spawn. The spawns have to travel with the front, and for now their system works well for that. Is there some room for improvement or fine tuning? The Rats would be the first ones to say it is so, they are doing something no one has done and some things done are best guesses at best. They may well change the cap flag to something else if it works better and adds to the gameplay without penalizing gamers.
hardcase
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Funny,
Many of the posters on the rat's forums are complaining about capture problems. Bugged tables, broken strat keys, and lack of attrition. That adds up to Quank for many players.
The rats are held to a higher standard that HTC. AH doesn't reach so far, and HT didn't want it to. He saw problems in combining a FPS with vehicle sims, and has been proven right so far. But the rats went farther than that, they wanted to model the entire wwii world, complete with all major campaigns. Or at least real navies, and that famous hydrostatic sea model. It'll be awhile. ;)
Attrition, command allocated resources, visable supply vehicles, real gameplay issues need to be addressed, imo. And those features need to be stable for gosh sake. AH has a lotta toys that work as advertised, heh. Maybe after another year of paid beta the Blitzkrieg might be stable and complete in features. I'd love to play the game they invisioned, but don't wanna pre-pay for development. I think that sets a bad precedent.
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WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!WWIIO SUCKS!!
Fanboys go away!!
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Fanboys go away!! [/B]
Well what if we like both games? Do I still have to go away?
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Fishu ah is nothing but a game. The main arena is not about history. I have had an average as high as 15 - 20 kills an hour in ah.
However if I just drove a tank for 30 min to get to a fight to be snipe by a 109e with mgff I would quit.
There is, atleast in my time there, not a sustainable level of action to keep me interested. Udie sitting in a tree all night is a perfect example.
Ah isnt, atleast for me, about base capture. Its about a2a combat.
I can pop into ah for an hour and have some great fun. in wwiiol I dont find that.
Is wwiiol supposed to "set the stage" in the virtual world to represent the war in France? Thats what I was lead to believe. Has it accomplished that? or is flag/base capture on a grander scale?
Can you see this capture model being repeated in an Eastern front version of wwiiol?
AH is a game designed around Air Combat. Period gamey in a lot of respects but its made up for by the level of entertainment. I called my wb account because I only ever saw about 20 folks in there when I flew. Completely boring flying around blind hoping to run into 1 of umm.
I did know about attrition etc and think thats great. Is the strat system in place? Is there a way to hit / effect strat? I only ever saw he-111 being used as low level tactical bombers. Are there any strategic targets for the he-111?
I'll keep watching and waiting 1.67 looks good but so did every other version since the release. :)
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Umm.. WWIIOL "is just a game" too, there where AH is.
You're obviously putting too much requirements for WWIIOL, more than for other games.
It is a game and theres no such game where compromises aren't done.
The biggest reason for compromises are the players.
There isn't many players who would enjoy of 'one life', or who would care to watch for their lives, or who would object to not to something "unhistorical" if it works.... and so on.
So, you don't like WWIIOL, fine, but at least keep the ranting in reasonable levels and keep in mind that theres people who likes it.
At least I prefer WWIIOL over AH, as im bored of AH... it's just boring air quake simply said.
WWIIOL is currently one of it's kind, theres no other game which incorporates as many aspects of war.
So it's been quite a challenge for the dev. team and requires alot of compromises.
Got to respect them for that... many others could have failed miserably and you won't see another of it's kind for a long time.
(or even close.. thanks to those gutless game publishers, who keeps on "do what is proven to work the best" line)
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to me its a game where one spends most of their time being bored.
I am not ranting I am replying to the fan bois who keep saying how much better it has gotten from its release. Could it have gotten much worse?
I was also asked what I would do differently then the current capture the flag.
Its not I like I turn up on the wwiiol board and tell how much better ah has become or linking screenshots.
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Wotan,
Mind I remind you that this is offtopic forum and people can create threads basically of everything they want.
So if you want to keep in such serious attitude discussions, then go to discuss in AH related forums :)
No reason to ruin someones good intentions by ranting with invalid arguments of the game that some other might like.
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Originally posted by Weave
Hey Hardcase, I've got a P4, 1.3ghz, with 512 PC800RDRam, and a G-force 128meg video card, and I've got a DSL connection. Think I can get maybe 15fps flying? Are they there yet?
hehe I have a P4 1.8ghz with 1gb PC800RDRam a Ge4 128mb card and cable and never got over 12fps while flying and usually 5-7 when another plane showed up. Yup actually bought the CD ($9.95) and tried it online last week. Two days is enough to know that it is still not much better from when I was playing it in beta. Prettier in ways, but if tanks is what I liked, Panzer Elite still beats it hands down.
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Fanboy= One who does not see faults in a game and attacks anyone who does no matter how crappy the game is or the company that wrote it!
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Fanboy= One who does not see faults in a game and attacks anyone who does no matter how crappy the game is or the company that wrote it!
the only personal attacks I see are coming from those who hate the game....
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JimBear I am sure you've heard this a million times and it really doesn't help you at all, but my system (P3-800 512SDRAM, 32MB Riva TnT2, resolution at 800x600x32) gets around 20fps in flight with other planes around, unless I am over a large combat area like Antwerp. FPS is weird.
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Anywhere in my post that even hints at my being a Fan-Bois? I have been pointing out, not the faults which it has, but the "stuff" that is working.
As for posting your specs and your fps cause they are lower than you expected, be assured, that ppl who are getting good fps know you should be getting more. With fps that low and not spiking, you probably are running the bare essentials to free up memory, but with that machine you should be getting more and that implies you are not running High Performance settings, ,with a lot of texture bells and whistles turned off, at no more than 1024x768x32 resolution. Post your settings as well as your rig and then the fps post will have some meaning.
I have a 2100xp with 512 megs 333mhz DDR mem, Leadtek Geforce 4600 and a 40 gig ata100 HD, etc.......on cable,
and still run WW2OL with those High Performance settings.
15 fps on the a 1.3..i got better with a 1.3amd 512 meg geforce 2 gts, but then again I havent heard your settings. Without knowing settings FPS/per Rig have no meaning.
FPS before Eye Candy
hardcase
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Ossie,
wow.. thats one very old video card.
With some gf2 mx, radeon I ... you could get more than twice the FPS.
I know, since I had nearly comparable system with TNT2, which from I went to Radeon.
in AH, near by smokes, difference was huuuge.