Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 10Bears on July 22, 2002, 02:43:33 PM
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,758761,00.html
'Persecuted' medicinal marijuana users seek asylum in Canada
Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Saturday July 20, 2002
The Guardian
A group of Americans are seeking political asylum in Canada, claiming they face persecution by their own government because of their use of medicinal marijuana.
Their cases are being considered by the Canadian legal authorities, who are assessing whether they face "genuine fear of persecution" if they are sent back.
Hundreds of Americans have crossed the border into Canada in recent months following clampdowns ordered by the attorney general, John Ashcroft, on medicinal marijuana clubs that exist in states where voters have passed measures approving
them.
(snip)
One of the best known American fugitives in Canada is Renee Boje, whom the US wishes to extradite to stand trial for cultivating cannabis plants at the home of
Todd McCormick, a cancer patient and medicinal marijuana activist in LA. She had watered the plants on his behalf.
"I'm a member of a class of society they're trying to oppress or wipe out completely," Renee Boje told the online news network, AlterNet from her home in Vancouver, British Columbia.
If convicted, she faces a minimum sentence of ten years. The length of that sentence is part of her plea that she faces unjust persecution if she were to return home. "There are hundreds of Americans here because they are being
persecuted by their own government."
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Yeah, those damn liburals... If we had a Republican government, they belive in states rights!
How do you relieve cancer patients their pain?... Why throw em' in prison for 10 years thats how.
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damn the man
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"US Government... the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" -- me ripping off Homer Simpson.
-SW
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In this regard I hate mr Ashcroft. They keep coming down on this and it will make me leave the party over one issue. Honestly there are 2 reasons why I haven't.
1. Democrats in washington lie through thier teeth everytime they speak.
2. Where is a conservative pot smoker supposed to go for representation? :confused:
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Originally posted by Udie
In this regard I hate mr Ashcroft. They keep coming down on this and it will make me leave the party over one issue. Honestly there are 2 reasons why I haven't.
1. Democrats in washington lie through thier teeth everytime they speak.
2. Where is a conservative pot smoker supposed to go for representation? :confused:
ROFL...
I'll try to help Udie.
1. so do Republicans
2. You must be getting the cheap stuff if you smoke it and continue to be a conservative. ;)
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I'm not a doctor or pharmacist so I have to ask: Is marijuana the only pain reliever available for cancer patients or is this a thinly veiled attempt to legalize it? (like: we can make rope out of it so it must be good.)
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I'll take heroin instead then.
henh.
GET YER FAT SLAP HAPPY GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY STASH, ASHCROFT!
Henh. Buncha commie martyrs runnin the guvment nowdays.
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Originally posted by majic
I'm not a doctor or pharmacist so I have to ask: Is marijuana the only pain reliever available for cancer patients or is this a thinly veiled attempt to legalize it? (like: we can make rope out of it so it must be good.)
The medicinal qualities of ganja are not limited to pain relief. Smoking, or eating it, is an all natural way to reduce pain and stimulate appetite...something no other drug can do without serious side effects. This makes it especially valuable in treating cancer patients.
It has also been shown to have some very beneficial qualities in treating serious cases of ADD. It calms the patient to the point that they can concentrate on a single function.
Keeping it illegal is a "not so thinly" veiled attempt by the producers of the unnatural, man made, mass produced drugs to keep weed off the shelves.
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Again medically marihuana is softdrugs alcohol is hard drugs
many sientist tried to find the negative aspect of marihuna
They failed finding any instead it has a lot of positive aspects
.again USA is going a long way on this coz of people unknown to the "drug" and some political hard asses.
Look at holland and u know it
Marihuana is not bad at all
i'm doing it more than 15 years and i work normally and i'm never sick at work
I even just made a beautiful healthfull daughter (also no effect on that)
What's the problem huh ???
This would be different if i would drink every day wich we find normal
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Add glaucoma and other eye traumas to the list of things marijuana would help out 10x more than anything on the shelves.
You know, it's funny, there's commercials every day 24/7 for OTC drugs.. Paxil, whatever... those drugs that are supposed to make you feel better or whatever, for depression, anyone ever listened to the list of side effects when the commercial is over? toejam, is it ever WORTH taking those things when you hear the list of side effects?
The current crop of synthetic pain killers is no different, the side effects they have... well, lets say you'd probably have second thoughts if you paid attention.
Marijuana, OTOH, doesn't have a side effect aside from potentially causing lung cancer. But when you are dying from cancer, or have a massive build-up of fluid in your eyes and they hurt like all hell, then you'll take a puff of that joint and be happier than a clam in no time flat.
It takes a nice synthetic pain killer cocktail to get anything close to that... which is a good several hundred dollars (probably approaching thousand) every month... while a dub sack ($20) would last someone a week or more...
Legalize it for medicinal purposes, decriminalize it for everyone else. Believe me, life ain't gonna do a 180 into barbaric times where everyone starts killing each other... shoot, we're already there with the riots we have.
-SW
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You people are fooling yourselves and advocating its use to those who dont know any better.
Dope and Cancer patients. I've no real complaint. Anything that relieves their pain is acceptable in my books.
Dope and its medicinal, non negative aspects however is laughable. When you have years of dealing with schizophrenics aged anywhere from 13 and above who are heavy dope users, you come and tell me it causes no problems.
I dont believe Dope leads to harder drugs. I dont believe that in small quantities it will harm you. I firmly believe however that Cannabis use, particularly among the young leads from experimentation and light use to heavy use. Because its cool, its mellow and everyone does it.
When your a heavy user, it is my firm opinion that it leads to depression and in some cases, schizophrenia.
Sure some never show any symptoms of either problem. However theres more than enough of them to be found mumbling to themselves in public places, cutting their arms in attempts at self harm, etc etc.
Can Marijuana be harmful to your health. Of course it can. Look at any hippy.
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cause they (the government) thinks they cant make money off it or really control it at all and liquor sales would plummet.
.
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p.s. spook marajuana is the least toxic psychoactive drug on earth. there is no toxic dose level.
there has never been one death from pot or pot derivatives in the history of medical science.
saying that people with mental problems use pot so pot must be bad for your is a sorry argument they drink water to so it must be bad for you right? sorry just bad logic.
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Sp00k-
"When your a heavy user, it is my firm opinion that it leads to depression and in some cases, schizophrenia."
It does not lead to schizophrenia at all. Unless you are pre-disposed towards depression or schizophrenia, then it won't cause it.
You just happen to deal with the bottom rung, the people who shouldn't of been doing dope to begin with because they were more than likely already chemically imbalanced or not playing with a full deck of cards.
The rest who smoke dope... they're walking all around you. Successful, normal people... you just don't hear about 'em cuz they don't make good posters.
They ain't gonna put a corporate business person who owns his own small $13mil/year company who smokes on an anti-marijuana poster.
Of course, a heavy dope abuser is no different than a heavy alcohol abuser. They're both miserable... one just likes to smoke rather than drink their life away.
-SW
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Hey Nash
Can I still get a job pickin' strawberrys in the Okanagen Valley? Rvelstoke is nice
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Originally posted by majic
I'm not a doctor or pharmacist so I have to ask: Is marijuana the only pain reliever available for cancer patients or is this a thinly veiled attempt to legalize it? (like: we can make rope out of it so it must be good.)
I know 2 people that use it medicenaly.
One is the wife of an old boss of mine. She had breast cancer and is going through chemo. She told me it was the only thing that stopped the nausea associated with chemo. She has since quit smoking it (off the chemo) She used to smoke regularly 10+ years ago.
The other is the father of a good friend of mine. He's smoked his whole life though so he would be smoking it anyway. He has M.S. (don't even want to try and spell that) I have witnessed it's affect on him personaly. I have watched him, with my own two eyes, transfrom from a quivering mass of flesh to a fully functional (well 80% or so) adult male. Why would anybody want to take that away from him? He works has paid taxes for 40 years.
That's pretty strong evidence that it works in that capacity to me, but hey what do I know....
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eh?
I'm sure you could 10B. :)
btw....
British Columbia is ---------->this<------- close to decriminilizing soft drugs (weed/hash/etc.). Which is a bit of a step back for us, actually. Now there will be fines.... but they haven't charged anyone for posession in ages.
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I dont believe Dope leads to harder drugs. I dont believe that in small quantities it will harm you. I firmly believe however that Cannabis use, particularly among the young leads from experimentation and light use to heavy use. Because its cool, its mellow and everyone does it.
Again i use 15 years last 10 maybe 3-4 a day
I'm not depresive
Ï'm not schrizofenic
sigh some opinions make me depresive dough
:rolleyes:
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Spook...riddle me this...why is there a need to spend millions upon millions of dollars battling the growing distribution and sale of a soft drug like herb, that you yourself admit doesn't lead to harder drugs, when you could put it all into destroying the crack trade, or the heroin trade? Because our children might end up being lazy dirty hippies? :rolleyes:
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Imagine my surprise when I was cleaning out my Mom’s freezer and found pot! The most anti-drug person I had ever known. She was receiving chemotherapy for cancer and died almost 2 years ago. I was shocked to find that she was smoking dope for the cancer. Then my sisters informed me that it was the pot that enabled her to keep the nausea down to a level where she gained some weight and enjoyed her trip dream trip to Paris. She died shortly after. The whole time she was able to gain some weight, I thought she was recovering.
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Originally posted by Udie
2. Where is a conservative pot smoker supposed to go for representation?
libertarian, dood
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It's trully bizarre that every hard drug is available medically (amphetamines, cocaine, opiates, alchohol, synthetics), but there is such strong opposition to bring THC into pharmacology .
Granted smoking it is a harmfull way of administering it, but could you imagine how much more expensive it would be if it was industrialized and comercially dispensed ($this is prolly the source of the conflict$) .
Of course the legislatures aren't going to take this cause seriously when the spokesmen are dudes in sandals with pony tails . The advocates of this cause need to get real becuase they have winnable, legitimate case .
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Schizophrenia is a medical conditon, not a psych. problem as it was long believed to be . You are born with a predisposition to it, relating mainly to the physical structure of your brain and it's ventricles . I'm sure that habitual use of marijuana will eventually cause depression as it desensitizes endorphin receptors . I would venture to say that like many substance abusers, habitual marijuana users many times are probably allready suffering some a degree of depression.
Todo con Modero .
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I would venture to say that like many substance abusers, habitual marijuana users many times are probably allready suffering some a degree of depression.
NOT
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Originally posted by Samm
habitual marijuana users many times are probably allready suffering some a degree of depression.
Only when they can't find any:D
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You just wait till Canada de-criminalizes it, it's probably not far off. Half the politicians in Canada have already admitted to smoking it, and inhaling. I hear there is another press on from within govt to see about dropping the law in regards to personal use and possession.
Canada could see a big vacation boom from south of the border when that happens :) There'll probably be bus-tours out of Seattle to Vancouver to tour the west coast grass.... maybe duty free shops... winery-weedery (drink and smoke up)... weed-world amusement park.... US dollars at par :)
-Soda
The Assassins.
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Hehe the US customs drug dogs will be alerting on everybody . I would feel sorry for the inspectors, will complicate their job quite a bit .
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Somebody send Spook a fattie..
..with instructions.
The guys depressing me.
;)
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Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
You people are fooling yourselves and advocating its use to those who dont know any better.
Dope and Cancer patients. I've no real complaint. Anything that relieves their pain is acceptable in my books.
Dope and its medicinal, non negative aspects however is laughable. When you have years of dealing with schizophrenics aged anywhere from 13 and above who are heavy dope users, you come and tell me it causes no problems.
I dont believe Dope leads to harder drugs. I dont believe that in small quantities it will harm you. I firmly believe however that Cannabis use, particularly among the young leads from experimentation and light use to heavy use. Because its cool, its mellow and everyone does it.
When your a heavy user, it is my firm opinion that it leads to depression and in some cases, schizophrenia.
Sure some never show any symptoms of either problem. However theres more than enough of them to be found mumbling to themselves in public places, cutting their arms in attempts at self harm, etc etc.
Can Marijuana be harmful to your health. Of course it can. Look at any hippy.
It is my firm and honest belief that the schizophrenia is caused by being paranoid about being busted, by cops or parents or any other authority figure or another medical reason.
I've never seen any of my friends go schizo from pot. I did watch one friend go from normal to schizophrenia from crack cocaine. It took about a year, but it screwed his mind for life. I watch many friends, including myself, suffer from depression from massive lsd and extacy use in the late 80's. But I never saw anybody lose it from pot. My case study is HUGE :D I've known a lot of people over the past 20 years that smokie.
I would never suggest to anybody to smoke dope or use drugs. That's one of those personal things to me. I don't believe in that kind of peer pressure. Kids should finish school before they start experimenting with stuff, but what's the likelyhood of that happening? Also I in no way advocate the legalization of any other controlled substance. But marijuana being labled like it has been for the past 80 years is just plain stupid. How many good souls have been locked up with rapist, murderers and all sorts of evil people over a freakin plant that you can't overdose on? That's truely sad to me and terrorfying at the same time.
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halaluja
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Somebody pass the fattie to Udie.
he's getting depressed.
;)
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what a joke..
pot is less harmfull than booze , but booze is legal.
it's all a money issue.
I've never seen anyone hurt anyone else because they were stoned. ok.. maybe the girlfriend was a bit disappointed because.. er.. ne'r mind
what was I saying ?
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Puff puff pass Wlfgng... puff puff pass!
-SW
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Hey! Udie is bogarting that fattie...;)
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Mr. Ashcroft, you are satan!
Masher
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Gentlemen. Pursueing (sp?) the arguement is an unproductive excercise. I'm neither a doctor or a psychologist. Neither do I have a great of stock of faith in both. Whats good for you one day will kill you the next. Depends on who is writing the report and bucking for the recognition.
Listen to your friends. Listen to the medical reports you want to believe in and listen to Woody the hemp rope advocate if you wish. I will argue with none of you.
Either you are one of the lucky ones who suffer no ill effects or im trapped in a thread with a bunch of weed smoking space cadets who are occupied between defending their habit and talking to their joystick.
When your dragging around a metre long trail of pots and pans behind you and the tin foil radar on top of your head tells you that the CIA are getting closer, You shall convince for me, the man beside you. That or he will wander off mumbling to himself unintelligebly, whilst wringing his hands about what a freak out you are.
Cannabis users are a rare breed. You dont have to tell, smack, hammer, speed, and amphet users they have a problem. They all know it. They may not want to know it but they all do. You can rarely convince a dope user that they have one and I gave up trying many years ago. I simply pick them up and lodge them in the looney bin for 72 hours and let others deal with them.
Its your life Gents. Enjoy.
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I don't smoke it, but Ashcroft is the EPITOME of an amazinhunk.
Masher
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(http://www.dmv.dot.state.nc.us/driverlicense/DriversHandbook/Chapter5/graphics/stopahead.gif)
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If people who smoke weed have a problem, people who drink have a problem too.
but then again, it's fairly evident you are ignorant to the subject at hand Sp00k... so yeah, arguing is pretty pointless because you won't bother to educate yourself on the issue.
S!
-SW
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SeaWulfe. Using one problem to justify another simply signifies you have a problem. This may be bad, but this is bad to, therefore its alright to do this. What ideology is that? Martian?
As for educating myself on the issue. Apparently if you read a book. It must be true. If you see it on the internet. It must be true. If this expert tells me so. It must be true.
Do you see the stupidity in that SW?
You smoke a few cones, pack a few bongs, roll a few joints and slap some hash blocks under your tongue, so you must be the expert.
I meet people with that same thought process every day of the week. Blinded in knowledge and the books of their culture and the infinite wisdom of their peers.
Im not judging you SW or anyone else who smokes dope. Be your own man. Make your own mistakes. If your lucky you get a chance to look back and say, "Hey man I was right and you were wrong."
If your not. Then you know me well enough to know, that i'll tell you straight. "I told you so."
Of course, telling the gibbering mindless vacant eyed zombies that cant remember yesterday let alone anything I told them on a BBS once when they remembered how to type, could be a problem.
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Spook, yer as full of judgemental ill-informed, inaccurate and incomplete toejam regarding cannibis as Martha Stewarts Thanksgiving Turkey.
... and tell yer programmer he did a great job on yer head.
;)
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SeaWulfe. Using one problem to justify another simply signifies you have a problem. This may be bad, but this is bad to, therefore its alright to do this. What ideology is that? Martian?
Well no, I was just showing you that if someone who smokes weed (not every day) has a problem... then there are billions of people on this planet who have a problem. People pop paxil and other OTC drugs to make their life more liveable for them. The only difference between weed and those prescription drugs is that you are being told one is bad while the other (with far more horrible side effects) you are being told is a great way to help "you" enjoy life.
As for educating myself on the issue. Apparently if you read a book. It must be true. If you see it on the internet. It must be true. If this expert tells me so. It must be true.
Do you see the stupidity in that SW?
So basically you are telling me that the only person you believe on this issue is no one? I didn't just read a book, or see it on the internet, a lot of my "education" on this issue came straight from the US Government.
You smoke a few cones, pack a few bongs, roll a few joints and slap some hash blocks under your tongue, so you must be the expert.
See above.
I meet people with that same thought process every day of the week. Blinded in knowledge and the books of their culture and the infinite wisdom of their peers.
The only thing blinding with regards to this subject is the lies and misinformation you've been fed your entire life. It's not your fault, the government runs the country and so they can freely tell you what they want. The studies are out there... but again, if you choose to believe no one on this subject then there's really no way you can ever reach the truth.
If your not. Then you know me well enough to know, that i'll tell you straight. "I told you so."
Yup, but I'm not saying anything along the lines of pot isn't bad. I'm simply trying to give you the real deal on it. Yeah, it can give you lung cancer. Yeah, it can slow down your reaction time. But then again, what drug (legal or not) doesn't?
Of course, telling the gibbering mindless vacant eyed zombies that cant remember yesterday let alone anything I told them on a BBS once when they remembered how to type, could be a problem.
See, that's the problem right there. You deal with burn outs and morons all the time apparently... they are the definition of pot heads. I remember yesterday perfectly fine... of course, I don't live my life in a doped up haze. I do it on MY own time when there will be no repercussions.
I know plenty of people who go home after work and pop back a few cold ones to relax. Why do you think going home and smoking a bowl or a joint is any different than that? Somehow I will magically turn into a gibbering mindless vacant eyed zombie? It just don't work that way.
If you dealt with hard core drunks all day, you'd see the correlation between the two I am making. A hard core pothead and a hardcore drunk are one in the same, they are both mindless vacant eyed zombies without a thought in there head except getting their next fix. OTOH, someone who drinks 2 or 3 beers a night is a far cry from a hard core drunk and can live their lives very happily without any problems. Just like someone who smokes a bowl, takes a bong hit, or smokes a joint a night. They are no different in terms of functioning in society as anyone else, they just happen to get high for a couple hours in their own homes.
-SW
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I smoked pot for 16 years, and hardly ever missed a day (near as I can recall).
I can honestly say there was no apparent permanent damage. I can also say through 1st hand experience that I know many "productive" members of the community who smoke regularly.
OTOH, I quit 12 years ago for good reasons. Pot reduces your mental capacity, it causes you to care less about your environment, it stops you from being your best.
I enjoyed it while I was using, I enoy life more now.
My $0.02
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Agreed Tah Gut.
-SW
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Midnight, did you know that Marijuana was the "gateway drug". According to the govt. you snorted Coke, shot up on Heroin, and took other drugs?" The politicians said it "was a stepping stone to other drugs". I guess they snorted all of the Coke, BUT they still do!
Masher
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Hmm, first the "Underground Railroad" now this...
Oh well, welcome :)
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
If you dealt with hard core drunks all day, you'd see the correlation between the two I am making. A hard core pothead and a hardcore drunk are one in the same, they are both mindless vacant eyed zombies without a thought in there head except getting their next fix.
-SW
WHAT?!?!? I can't believe you would have the odacity to compare the two, SW!! It's obvious you've never seen a recovering alcoholic toejam all over themselves, have seizures and maybe even DIE from their withdrawal symptoms. As far as being "mindless vacant-eyed vombies," I'd rather see a "zombie" stoned on pot driving than a drunk "zombie" weaving down the road. The drunk "zombies" are the ones who cause nearly 60,000 traffic fatalities every year. LOL Sorry, but I see the hard core crack, heroin, meth and (ahem) alchocol addicts sleeping in the doorways and holding up cardboard signs. The pot users are the ones walking by on their way to work, maybe dropping some change into an outstretched junkie's hand. The pot smokers are the clerk who waited on you, the guy who assembled your computer, or maybe the lawyer who defended you in your last drunk driving trial (not you personally SW).
SpOOk I have a hard time believing you put people on 72 hour psych watches because they're running down the street in a phychotic rant just from smoking pot. However, if this is true then you can expect a call from Hangtime asking for some of that "super psycho weed." And of COURSE kids who start smoking pot will be enticed to try Meth or Coke because thanks to Government policy the kids must buy their dope from the same guy who sells E, Meth and Coke!
Rather you want to talk about pot specifically or the War on Drugs in general you must admit the current Government policy has been a dismal failure. We have more people in prison today for drug offenses than ever before, there are more, and better, and cheaper drugs on the street than ever before, and more people use drugs than ever before.
It's intresting to note that in the not-too-recent past alcohol was illegal and pot was legal- and it wasn't medical research that reversed that situation but rather political lobbying and all the graft that goes with that. Wouldn't it be ironic if alcohol were illegal and pot were legal and alcohol were classified as the dangerous drug it really is?
Personally I don't care what your drug of choice is as long as you're a productive, responsible adult who isn't a burden on society, and keeping drugs illegal has only created more of those types. Personally I don't give a damn what ANYONE does in the privacy of their own home as long as there's no victim or danger to themselves or others. That being said, then, a question- Do you think Renee Boje deserves to spend 10 years in prison? Or do you believe Ashcroft is making a political statement by his aggressive persuit of Cannibis Clubs in California?
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Elfenwolf? Is that you man? Welcome back! Listen, a few friends of mine and I are thinking about bungee jumping this weekend. Interested?
Sorry, had to be the first.:p
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well I predict massive forest fires tonight at approximately 5:15 pm give or take 5 seconds. They will occure in my bedroom :D
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lucky bastard.
all dry here. close to a month :(
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and withdrawals include, well nothing but beeing pissed at udie for havin some.
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libertarian is the way to go on this and many other topics. Let everyone decide if they want to smoke the crap or not.
pot makes you stupid... at least while you are smoking it. it makes you paranoid and gives you a one track mind... pot makes you wimpy. Some people are affected in even worse ways.
I say let em smoke as much as they want but don't tell me you drive cars or operate heavy machinery as well on pot as not. you kill someone in a car while high on pot you need to be charged with murder. No big deal... Get to many "driveing under the influence " and you lose your licence,
I don't really care... I am a lazy person so I wish more people smoked pot so that the competition was less.
lazs
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Thanks for you $0.02 worth Midnight,
I've never used it myself, but have had friends that did. In my 48 years I've had to deal with mj users and drunks. Of the two, drunks were the most dangerous. You can't convince them they have a problem, or to not get behind the wheel of a car. They were more likely to start arguments or fights.
On the other hand, the mj users were just as hard to convince that they had a problem. A close friend of mine experimented with both. When he was drunk, he thought he was a better driver. When he was smoking dope, he was a laid-back but extremely silly twit. His ability to make decisions was definitely impaired.
I'm not for conducting a witch-hunt for mj users. If it's use helps cancer victims then I am all for letting them have it. Would the rest of you who want it legalized please stop playing the role of the selfless humanitarian. That isn't the real reason you want it legalized.;)
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Thanks for you $0.02 worth Midnight,
Would the rest of you who want it legalized please stop playing the role of the selfless humanitarian. That isn't the real reason you want it legalized.;)
Regards, Shuckins
You're right, Shuckins. The REAL reasons I want to see it legalized, along with virtually every other illegal substance, has more to do with a logical position on the issue more than for humanitarian reasons, although you must admit 10 years in a federal prison for growing pot in your bedroom does seem rather Draconian, don't ya think?? LOL Actually most pot growers who are making 100 grand a year tax free, using poison to control the pests like deer and rabbits, answer to no enviromental regulations like a legitimate business must do and harass and threaten their neighbors wish to maintain the status quo and keep it illegal.
If heroin were to become legal do you think there would suddenly be an epidemic of heroin abuse or do you think the availability of clean needles and a cheap supply might cut down the infection rates of diseases like hepititis and HIV? Personally I have no desire to use Heroin rather it's legal or not- and if you think heroin is made less available due to its legal status then think again. The biggest concern of a heroin addict is getting the money to buy his drugs at artifically inflated prices- not where to FIND the drugs.
To assume one could be opposed to the prohibition on drug usage of ANY kind simply because they want to legitimize their own illicit usage is like assuming the only reason people would be in favor of equal rights is because they're a minority.
How do you feel about your friends' usage of alcohol and marijuana concerning the potential for a tragedy? You stated he thought his driving ability was better after a few drinks and when he smoked pot he sat around his living room, grinning for no reason and craving chocolate-chip ice cream. Personally I think he's more of a menace to society if he's drinking and driving and I'd rather to see him stay home and get stoned rather than drive drunk. But then again I don't have your background in law enforcement- I'm sure you've pulled more mangled bodies out of car wrecks due to marijuana abuse than alcohol abuse.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
and withdrawals include, well nothing but beeing pissed at udie for havin some.
hey! you're a liberal communist nazi! I've got to keep you angry with me about something!!! :D
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Do the police test for marijuana use in the bodies of people killed in driving accidents? Just curious.
By the way, Elf, my friend drove while both stoned and drunk. In my opinion, he was dangerous either way.
Regards, Shuckins :)
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I believe someone tests for drugs(of any sort, legal or illegal) in a person's body if they die/killed in a car accident... otherwise they wouldn't have those statistics for people involved in car accidents that die or are sent to the ER that have alcohol and/or weed in their system.
If I remember correctly, in the early 90s there were far more people admitted into the ER for driving under the influence of alcohol than weed... while the combination (weed and alcohol) was THE most common in auto accidents that result in death and/or serious injury.
Either way, if you are under the influence of anything- whether it be cold medicine or the hardest drug you can find- you shouldn't be behind the wheel.
-SW
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Do the police test for marijuana use in the bodies of people killed in driving accidents? Just curious.
By the way, Elf, my friend drove while both stoned and drunk. In my opinion, he was dangerous either way.
Regards, Shuckins :)
That's a very bad combo! My roommate and I have a saying. When you smoke a doob after drinking you are doing what we call "multiplying" because the pot "multiplies" the effect of the beer making you 9 times more drunk than you were before you smoked. This is a real phenomena (sp?) I won't smoke much if I've been drinking because it will cause me to get sick like I drank too much, then again I only drink at AH cons :)
smoke first then drink a couple of beers is a diferent buzz altogether. Still one should never get behind the wheel after doing this, but defenately not after drinking first then smoking. BAD move.....
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Shuckins, I wouldn't advocate driving under ANY substance, but c'mon now, we all know the statistics of DUI fatalities vs. marijuana-related fatalities- although admittedly I'd rather have my pilot have had a drink before my flight rather than just smoked a joint.
We're getting off topic a bit, bud. (No pun intended) The question I have is rather or not this woman deserves to be incarcerated in a Federal Prison for 10 years MINIMUM for growing dope or do you think she's a victim of political persecution by John Ashcroft against California's passage of the medismal marijuana initiative? And yes, I agree the proponets of medical marijuana are trying to get "a foot in the door" for ultimate across-the-board legalization, but the bottom line is that a majority of voters in California voted for this propisition while a minority of voters in the USA voted for the man who appointed John Ashcroft Attorney General.
, Elfen
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Originally posted by Udie
That's a very bad combo! My roommate and I have a saying. When you smoke a doob after drinking you are doing what we call "multiplying" because the pot "multiplies" the effect of the beer making you 9 times more drunk than you were before you smoked. This is a real phenomena (sp?) I won't smoke much if I've been drinking because it will cause me to get sick like I drank too much, then again I only drink at AH cons :)
I know this effect all too well... it's a toss up for me. I think after about 9-12 beers if I smoke, the toilet starts calling my name. It's usually about 50/50 that I'll be "fine" (although, still entirely too f'ed up).
-SW
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Do the police test for marijuana use in the bodies of people killed in driving accidents? Just curious.
Even if they found it, there would probably be no way to tell if the person was stoned when they crashed since it stays in the system for weeks.
Nevada is going to have full legalization on the ballot soon.
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Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
Getting back on Topic then...
She broke the law. What ever state or Federal legislation it may be in the US, she broke it, plain and simple.
Many people are of the opinion that the people come above the law in the grand scheme of things. That because the Law is made to protect the people, that the Law then serves the people in a subserviant way.
People come under the Law for the greater good of the People. Yes, even the bad or insane laws. What ever the reason. No matter how justifiable in hers, yours or my eyes, she broke the law. If the penalty is 10 years, then until the people lobby the Government by way of petition or election, she frys in the big house like anyone else.
She is not special. She has no more rights in regard to the law than anyone else. She no doubt knew the cannabis laws along with all the other "informed" dope heads.
You can feel sympathy for her if you like. Dope Users unite! But eh, .....as the dope head said when knocking a packed cone onto the carpet.......Sh*t happens.
So no matter how outdated a law may be, how Draconian, and even how against the wishes of the majority of citizens, the law must stand because it is, after all, the LAW?? One hundred years from now the people of the future will look back on these times and shake their heads in amazement at how we handled this issue just like we look back 100 years ago and shake our heads at the general lynchings of African Americans in the South.
We HAD an election and the people of California voted to allow the medical use of marijuana with a doctors' prescription. John Ashcroft had an election too, and he lost to a DEAD guy
for Christ's sakes. Indoor growers get busted all the time in California, and the average first offense is a slap on the wrist and maybe a few weekends in County Jail. John Ashcroft is seeking ten years MINIMUM in a Federal Prison for these admitted marijuana activists in order to further his own political agenda. I'm still wondering how in the hell a guy who lost an election to a dead guy can subject the State of California to his personal will.
Exactly how is the criminal persuit of these activists "protecting the people?" Please, get real here. John Ashcroft is just as extreme in his viewpoints as the marijuana activists are in theirs. The fact you agree with him politically convinces me you must have been one of the dozen or so voters who voted for him over the dead guy.
sp00k, somehow I knew you would be the first one to state this woman deserves 10 years in a federal pen for trying to relieve the suffering of fellow human beings. At least you proved correct the assumptions I had already arrived at concerning your character.
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the smoker i drink, the player i get.
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this thread is tripping out on me now, it wont let me to the 2nd page of posts!!!!!!!!!! it wont even let me read all the posts on the first page!!!!!
I NEEEEEEEED IT!!!!! :D
wow now I only see posts by me and spook!!!!!
wth?
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lol
comparing pot to booze... please.
when has pot caused anything near the problems that booze has caused.
the difference is that booze is legal due the money issue.
if the feds figure out how to keep popularity and raise money, it'll be legal too.
how many people are screwed up (or dead)
because of booze ?
because of pot ?
speaking for myself. I have recently passed some serious health problems that pot definately helped me with.
as for short term memory loss, and other "harmful" effects...
huh?
no seriously, pot isn't perfect or necessarily 'good' for you, but it isn't even close in terms of damage to you and others as many other drugs.. legal and otherwise.
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weird , same here Udie.. I just posted but page 2 doesn't show...
short term memory loss here ?? :eek:
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Ozark has a post here to.....Did I mention it causes blindness ?
LOL
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Originally posted by Udie
this thread is tripping out on me now, it wont let me to the 2nd page of posts!!!!!!!!!! it wont even let me read all the posts on the first page!!!!!
ok...be cool....BE COOL
gotta think...
How about...it can't be some form of flashback or hallucination...we both see it!
:confused: :confused:
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carnivore ate it lol
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HELLO
HELLO
IS THERE ANYBODY IN THERE
IN THERE...