Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hblair on July 23, 2002, 10:00:07 AM
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or anybody else that works out, What's your maximum bench press? I just recently started working out a little (yesterday :)), because frankly, I've become a pot bellied outa shape slob. Might actually start running too. Out of interest tho, how much is your max bench press? ( 230lbs was actually giving me some trouble, shhh, don't tell anybody :D)
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Originally posted by hblair
or anybody else that works out, What's your maximum bench press? I just recently started working out a little (yesterday :)), because frankly, I've become a pot bellied outa shape slob. Might actually start running too. Out of interest tho, how much is your max bench press? ( 230lbs was actually giving me some trouble, shhh, don't tell anybody :D)
A good measure of max bench is this:
1.5 times your body weight if your under 40 years old. (So I've been told by a personal trainer)
1.25 times your body weight if your over 40 years old.
Next Tuesday will be my bi-annual test, currently once a week I work up to 3 reps of 285, so 315 is my goal (1 rep, 3 plates a side) Typically I do a pyramid, start with 135 as a high rep warmup, then go to 185, then 225, then 245, then 275, then 285, then back down to 225, then 185. After that, I do incline bench (225 X 4 sets, 10 reps) then I also do triceps the same day (since they're burning good after bench) The reps get lower as the weight gets higher (thus the "3 reps of 285")
I usually maintain lift for 4 months, then go on a 2 month "Heavy lifting" program, then do my max, then rinse and repeat.
My best ever max was 325 when I was 40, on my 40th birthday. Now that I'm 42, I'll be lucky to hit 315 on next Tuesday.
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Ah, the gym
See I'd love to get toned up, Ive dropped a ton of weight working at UPS. I've got a smidgen of a gut left, and that's it. What can I bench? Beats me.
Seems no matter what club I join, its occupied by incredible little models...yowwie :) That and there is always that one guy, glued to the mirror, flexing himself for hours on end while wearing 80's spandex....
I don't know what I like most about the gym....the workout, the scenery, or the entertainment. I spend more time wonder if those are real or not :D
My question....Nautilus equipment or free weights, which is better?
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How much does a fork weigh?
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I lift weights all the time... 12 Oz aluminum weights!
LePaul- Nautilus or any machine weights, free weights will cause more damage to your tendons and joints from stress you don't get with machine weights.
-SW
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Originally posted by LePaul
My question....Nautilus equipment or free weights, which is better?
Depends what goals you set. You want to bulk up? Free weights. You want to "Athletic build" or tone? Alittle of both.
I use "Hammar Strength" (Used by 27 of 32 NFL teams) and free weights. HS is nautilus with free weights manually added.
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One side note:
Machine bench lift is no where near an accurate measurement of true "free weight" maximum bench press. I can bench 350 on a nautilus, but only 300-315 on free weights.
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Incidently, a good start is this:
4 times a week weight lifting:
30 min. of "Major muscle groups" lifting each of the 4 days, with 15-30 min of cardio (running, bike, stairclimber, whatever)
Everyone has their own Routine, but change it up occasionally as to shock the muscles.
Currently, I do(but not including cardio):
Mon:
Chest, Triceps (This takes 1 hour)
Tues:
Legs, lower back, and stomach (1 hour)
Wed:
Biceps, Shoulders Upper back/Traps
Thurs: Off
Fri: Chest, Triceps
Then the following monday, I do what I did on the previous Tues. So it works out more than once a week.
thats only 4 hours a week that you have to dedicate to excercise. Why so little? Well, the toughest thing folks have to do when starting an excercise program is STAYING WITH IT. If you dedicate the minimum required to stay fit, then you're forcing yourself to GO those 4 hours a week. Once you get into habit (30-45 days of doing ANYTHING in your life becomes "Habit") then you can up your training time as you see fit, for whatever your goals are.
Personally, for 8 years now, 4 times a week, 1.5 hours each day. Works for my schedule. (Oh, and I smoke cigars. ) :D
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That's very good advice, which I shall heed.
Every night at UPS, unloading trucks and running around, I'm literally soaking in my own sweat as this lasts for just over 2 hours. I'm usually up early, so I ought to see about doing the 4 times a day thing you suggest at a local gym, starting slow and working my way up.
Hmm come to think of it, UPS will pay up to $250 towards a health club. Guess I'll call around.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by LePaul
That's very good advice, which I shall heed.
Every night at UPS, unloading trucks and running around, I'm literally soaking in my own sweat as this lasts for just over 2 hours. I'm usually up early, so I ought to see about doing the 4 times a day thing you suggest at a local gym, starting slow and working my way up.
Hmm come to think of it, UPS will pay up to $250 towards a health club. Guess I'll call around.
Thanks!
We have 1 UPS guy, and 1 "Airborne" guy that both work out at the gym during their lunch breaks (They're drivers). They eat a large breakfast, and dinner, and snack all day on healthy stuff (Apple, banana's,etc.)
Start off slow, light weight. Practice FORM rather than weight. The worst thing a guy sees at the gym is someone who is trying to lift alotta weight and has lousy form! "Form" will tone you up faster than alot of weight will, and as AKWulfie said, will damage cartilage in the long run (I'm living proof, as I've had one shoulder operation)
If you ever meet me in person, you won't think I'm "big" at all, because I lift for STRENGTH, not bulk. They are two separate weight training programs altogether.
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Let me take a stab at this (spent 16 years powerlifting).
First, I divide my days into a four-day week, like Rip. However, I divide it into two pairs of push-pull days. On Mondays and Thursdays I do all pushing execrises- bench, incline, shoulders, and triceps. On Tuesdays and Fridays I do lat pulls, bicep curls, reverse curls, and dumbbells.
You start with the heaviest lift and work to the lightest lift, because as you move through the routine you will grow progressively weaker. In this way, you maximize the amount of stress you can place on each muscle group.
Sets are usually 5 sets of 5 straight through, with the exception of the lat pulls (done on a lat bar for me), which is done to the tune of 6 sets of 10, 3 wide grip, 3 narrow grip.
At first glance, this workout looks imbalanced to the Monday/Thursday side, but in truth it isn't. One of the hardest lessons I had to learn about physical training is that most people do not understand the rest/recovery cycle. It takes at least two days before any muscle group can be stressed again, and three is better (and the older you get, the more this time increases). More, free weights usually require the lifter to recruit ancilliary muscle groups for balance, assistance, etc. Push exercises also tend to be the real power exercise, and exert the most stress on the body. So... if the power routines are done on Mondays and Thursdays, the workouts done the next day need to be a bit lighter in stress, and therefore a few less exercises actually helps recovery. In addition, the mental aspect of having to be "up" for the workout is only really a factor on two days, helping to keep the appetite up to push. This leaves three days for cardiovascular work (if you're so inclined), and it all fits in a nice, neat, 30-minute cell (if you are efficient).
I used to believe I had to spend 2 hours a day in the gym, little realizing all I was doing was overtraining. I dropped lifting when I finally burned out, became a runner, and dropped from 210 to 155 (skeletal on my frame). When the heel spur forced a break, I went back to lifting. In my first life as a lifter I maxed bench at 345lbs. Upon my return, I have maxed 360, this on a quarter of the time and at age 40. I have now moved off the weights again for a while for a return to running, and will probably pop back-and-forth between the two in cycles.
Rip alluded to acclimation- this occurs in all sports after approximately 6-8 weeks. What happens is your body by this point has grown accustomed to the type of work you've been doing, so significant gains drop off. It's at this point you need to plan to shift emphasis, mix up the routine, or pick a new activity altogether. I've found this to be consistant in swimming, running, biking, lifting... basically everything I've ever done. Most serious athletes plan months into the future, including periodization into the plans.
As this dissertation is already way beyond what most people will read, I will stop. If you want to know more, ask, otherwise I yield the floor. :D
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Went to Adrian College. Spent 7 million bucks on a new Fitness area. Why would care. Brand new Fu$%ing Hammer Machines. GOD!!!!
Masher
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LePaul-
Regarding Nautilus vs. Free Weights... I prefer the free weights. Nautilus is very good at what it does, that is, isolate particular muscle groups. This I believe has its best effect in rehabilitation applications, where a very specific area needs to be addressed. Nautilus is also good in that it keeps a uniform stress throughout the range of motion (through the use of chains and cams), whereas free weights can vary in some motions. What Nautilus fails miserably at is developing ancilliary muscle groups. Take the wrists and forearms. It is unlikely that anyone using free weights would ever have to include a dedicated wrist or forearm exercise, because every time you pick up a free weight, you are stressing that area. In Nautilus, this does not occur. When you sit down on a Nautilus machine, you are hitting exactly one muscle area, period.
On the issue of safety, no question Nautilus is better. You absolutely do not need spots on a Nautilus rig. Free weights are dangerous to the inexperienced lifter who lifts alone. Don't think for a second bad stuff won't happen, it will.
Cost? Free weights, hands down. I have a basic setup in my basement that cost me about $300. I can hit every major muscle group, and have all the weights I'll ever need. It takes up the space of an average bedroom. An average Nautilus unit that will exercise exactly one musle group will set you back on the average $2,000 or more.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
A good measure of max bench is this:
1.5 times your body weight if your under 40 years old. (So I've been told by a personal trainer)
1.25 times your body weight if your over 40 years old.
Sheesh, if I could bench 1.25 times my body weight I'd set a world's record.
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I thought you were in traction or something?
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Good posts Kieren, I'm 100% concurrent with you! (though you obviously have more years into this!)
360 max bench at 200 lbs body weight? I'm guessing your about 5'9" to 5'10" in height right?
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Just a smidgeon under 6 foot.
Yup, did everything but stick a needle in the leg or take pills. I ate and slept weights for a looooong time, then traded that obsession for running. Of the two, running still does me the most good, even if I am physically weaker. I found lifting makes me aggressive, and running settles me down.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Nautilus or any machine weights, free weights will cause more damage to your tendons and joints from stress you don't get with machine weights.
-SW
*cough*roadkill*cough*
Free weights don't injure joints, idiots who don't know how to lift and try to lift too much injure joints. Free weights are actually better in the long run because they also work the stabilizing muscles associated with each movement. If you have a pre-existing injury, then by all means, lift on a machine to rehab it. Afterwards, switch to free weights and practice proper form and controlled movement.
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Is this your medical opinion?
In the long run, yeah.. they work out your stabilizing muscles. In the short term they can tear/severly damage tendons in the lesser used areas of your chest, shoulders and back. Because of the lack of developed stabilizing muscles, this imposes more pressure on your joints and more wear and tear.
a dOktEr tOwlD mEe So!
-SW
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Though I wouldn't say it so harshly, I agree with Raub. This is part of the reason a new lifter should never lift alone. In my opinion machine weights are for those that must lift alone or are in rehab; otherwise lift free weights and start light (and do it right!). Bad form causes injury, along with failing to recognize when form has fallen apart (from fatigue) and trying for additional reps.
The story of sports is knowing when to push and and when to back off.
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Yup, I intentionally left the legs out of that workout routine, because I generally run. Squats really should only be done with a spot for many reasons, and at my age, the knees just don't like them anyway. When I am not running I will throw leg extensions and hamstring curls in, then jump on the bike three days a week. That handles the legs pretty well.
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if you injure a joint, it won't spark up clean, and you may cave the back of yer head in tryin to get it to toke.
you should avoid joint injury.
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Originally posted by LePaul
I don't know what I like most about the gym....the workout, the scenery, or the entertainment. I spend more time wonder if those are real or not :D
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who cares if they are real or not.:D
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250 lbs bench
440 lbs squat
... dont laugh, I'm still a youngin :)
actual weight is about 195 lbs.
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I lift enough weight just gettin outta bed in the morning...
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Ripsnort said...
If you ever meet me in person, you won't think I'm "big" at all
Hmph.....hehe....hahaha...... .you said it, not me. ;)
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Bench - 650
What!? - I got a concrete bench that weighs #650. Sheesh! What did you think I meant? :rolleyes:
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...the workout, the scenery, or the entertainment.
'Aerobics is a Spectator Sport'
.... Capt Morgan
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Hehe Tahgut... I do believe the world record Bench press is right around 650 lbs (Congrats! ;) )
The avg. Linebacker in the NFL benches around 400-450 lbs (With LOTS of help from Androstine and Creatine ;) )
So, we're all just a puny lot compared to real athletes ;)
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Sounds like nothin but work to me....Muhahaha:D
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Ripsnort,
The last time I did any serious lifting was in high school a little over 30 years ago. Never realized any serious muscle growth from it.
Fooled with it for a couple of months about 20 years ago. I weighed about 165 pounds at that time and was working up to 200 pounds before I quit. I found that I was having trouble with the strength of my wrists. My arms could handle the weight but not my wrists. I'd like to get started lifting again but do not wish to have the same problem. Are their any specific exercises that you know of that I could use to strengthen my wrists before I begin a weight lifting program (No wisecracks please!)?
Regards, Shuckins
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I had a buddy who would drive screws into a pine board as his wrist workout. Both hands even number of screws.... made sense to me.
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Awe! Why'd you have to add that last line Shuckins!? :D
They make gloves that have built in wrist wraps, many folks are in the same boat as you, that's what they make these "wrist wrap" gloves for.(Not the kind of wraps that you'd use for dead lifts, but one that is attached to the glove itself, for better wrist support)
Go to a big sporting goods outlet (I say big, because the bigger, the better selection) Your wrist strength will naturally increase with weight lifting, or you can do "wrist ups" which is just holding a dumb bell and and rotating the wrist to its extremities up and down.
Here's the link to the gloves:
http://www.efitnesswear.com/catalog/wrist-wrap_gloves_1161112.htm
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I had a buddy who would drive screws into a pine board as his wrist workout.
Using his forehead?
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Hey Rip... 35 yrs old here. My max is 365. I've never had a strong top end bench really. I have rep'd 225 22 times. I use to squat 315 for reps of 10's BUT my knee's bother me so I single legged press and dead lifts (rep 225 for about 10 or so).
Somebody posted that squats are dangerous. Just put a crash bar down... work w/the bar till your form is good. Look up/arch back and drive your hips foward like your screwing the air in front of you.
If you wanna get strong you gotta do squats. They place your body in a "fear" state and release alot of hormones. They work the entire body as well. Dead lifts are bit more dangrous. I'd find someone whom you see compete or get a trainer to show you proper form.
Anyway..been lifting 15yrs. Its a way of life for me. its my temple of iron.
xBAT
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Here's a decent wrist exercise:
Take a standard bar (olympic, 45lbs) and add a 10lbs to both sides. Sit on a bench, pick up the bar with palms up, then rest your wrists on your knees. The hands should be able to extend over the knees. Now, allow your wrist to drop toward the ground, and slowly uncurl your fingers until the weight is suspended by your fingertips. Curl back up, and repeat. Do 20 of these, rest 1 minute, then do it again. Do this for three sets and see how you feel.
This can be the final exercise in your routine every single day. The wrists and forearms are high-density muscle (like your calves) and are accustomed to stress every day. Do this for a while, raising the weight when you are able, and you will soon have very strong wrists.
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Originally posted by batdog
Hey Rip... 35 yrs old here. My max is 365. I've never had a strong top end bench really. I have rep'd 225 22 times. I use to squat 315 for reps of 10's BUT my knee's bother me so I single legged press and dead lifts (rep 225 for about 10 or so).
Somebody posted that squats are dangerous. Just put a crash bar down... work w/the bar till your form is good. Look up/arch back and drive your hips foward like your screwing the air in front of you.
If you wanna get strong you gotta do squats. They place your body in a "fear" state and release alot of hormones. They work the entire body as well. Dead lifts are bit more dangrous. I'd find someone whom you see compete or get a trainer to show you proper form.
Anyway..been lifting 15yrs. Its a way of life for me. its my temple of iron.
xBAT
365!? Thats impressive if your 200 lbs. in body weight (Remember the formula, 1.5 times your body weight should be your minimum max bench)
Agree with you on squats, or legs, that and your body will not "grow" beyond a certain point because of the imbalance...however....
I worked my legs for 4 years, heavy weights, squats, got up to 425, didn't gain 1 single inch in diameter, sure they got "cut" but I didn't gain ANY muscle weight in them....its genetics, my Mother had chicken legs, her father (whom I take after genetically) had chicken legs., etc .
I still work legs, but I don't bulk lift with them anymore, mainly because it NEVER did me any good (Worked with a personal trainer that couldn't believe that he couldn't put weight on my legs, now HE'S a believer in the "genetic" theory) and the fact that my knees can't handle the heavy weights anymore.
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WRIST WORKOUT LOL
Most of us perfected that during Jr. High...
PS I ATE A BABY
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I maintain squats are dangerous, but not in the way you think I meant. Squats are very high stress, and require a strict discipline in form. The knee is probably the most poorly designed and injury prone joint in the body. Here's what typically happens...
A person decides to do squats. They put some weight on, then proceed. They want to do it right, so they take the weight all the way down to the haunches, way past parallel on the thigh (this means the thigh is parallel to the ground). Nothing wrong- yet. As the person comes back up, the thighs shake, and the knees flex in or out. The person probably doesn't even notice this, so focused on pushing the weight back up.
Now the patellar tendon is very thick, and quite capable of bearing a great deal of stress. The cruciate ligament (inside the knee) is not. Once the emphasis shifts off the patellar tendon and onto the cruciate, you have a potential disaster. Anyone who has ever blown a knee can tell you you won't always see it coming. Pop, it's gone. And once it's gone, it's gone.
So, the more important use for a spotter on squats isn't for support- you're right, the bar can do that- it's to help you watch that form and tell you when it is time to put the weight down. Squats are utterly unforgiving of bad form, and if isn't the knees that blow, the lower back will get you. It is too easy to get permanently hurt to go it alone when you are new and don't know what to watch for.
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Yea... I was a verrrrry skinny dude. I started lifting in the army. I was obessesed w/my legs for several years. I trained them like a manic. I got to a point where I could fit in anything but pretty baggy jeans. They've shrunk SOME but I workem enough to keep some size. I'm pretty tall as well. 6'2 and wiegh from 205-220 depending on my goals. That makes it important to build legs.
I think alot of people also forget that a muscule has both a slow moving cell and a fast one. In order to max thier potential you need to train both. Quick explosive movemments and slow controled ones.
Its cool talking shop w/another muscule head though :)
xBAT
P.S. Hey Rip... you do HACKS? Sometimes hard leg gainers focus on quads and forget all about that huge muscule behind thier leg. Stiff legged dead lifts, hacks and yes.... hill sprints will often do it.
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Originally posted by Kieran
I maintain squats are dangerous, but not in the way you think I meant. Squats are very high stress, and require a strict discipline in form. The knee is probably the most poorly designed and injury prone joint in the body. Here's what typically happens...
A person decides to do squats. They put some weight on, then proceed. They want to do it right, so they take the weight all the way down to the haunches, way past parallel on the thigh (this means the thigh is parallel to the ground). Nothing wrong- yet. As the person comes back up, the thighs shake, and the knees flex in or out. The person probably doesn't even notice this, so focused on pushing the weight back up.
Now the patellar tendon is very thick, and quite capable of bearing a great deal of stress. The cruciate ligament (inside the knee) is not. Once the emphasis shifts off the patellar tendon and onto the cruciate, you have a potential disaster. Anyone who has ever blown a knee can tell you you won't always see it coming. Pop, it's gone. And once it's gone, it's gone.
So, the more important use for a spotter on squats isn't for support- you're right, the bar can do that- it's to help you watch that form and tell you when it is time to put the weight down. Squats are utterly unforgiving of bad form, and if isn't the knees that blow, the lower back will get you. It is too easy to get permanently hurt to go it alone when you are new and don't know what to watch for.
I agree Kieran. If you want your LEGS to grow... stop at parralel. If you want your bellybutton to grow... go to the floor. Power guys goto the floor. I use to until I was told what I was doing... check the above quote/post.
Dont forget flexiablity as well. A non flexiable muscule is nice to look at but pretty useless. Oh.. and warmup too....
xBAT
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Runners understand fast twitch/slow twitch very well. Sprinters are fast twitch, endurance slow twitch. You can guess I am slow twitch, as I excelled at the longer distances. ;)
The only real application I see to this in weight lifting is periodization. One could set a rotating 8-week cycle up that shifts emphasis from fast twitch to slow twitch, or something similar. Other than that, power lifting is about explosion, not endurance.
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Well, I don't know if "muscle head" describes me, I do it more for strength and the "feel good" endorphines than physical looks.
I'm currently 196 lbs. with 11% body fat. The worst part is, old age slows ya down, what I used to do all night, now takes me all night to do! :p
(Edit, incidently, I began at age 33, serious lifting that is, and I weighed 155 lbs. It took 4 years to get up to 215, which was my peak weight...then I've since slowly dropped to 195 lbs)
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Well.... in order to lift a heavy wieght you need explosion to over come inertia right? The slow twitch gives you the power needed to "support" the wieght I quess. I'm no expert... but I have trained for along time and I've seen it work. I good thing to imporve your bench is do 3 reps of 65 percent of your max w/ 1 min rest inbetween. Do this for several weeks. The try your max and see if it improves. This is for a twice aweek body part. One day do that..next your normal bench/sqaut whatever.
xBAT
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, I don't know if "muscle head" describes me, I do it more for strength and the "feel good" endorphines than physical looks.
I'm currently 196 lbs. with 11% body fat. The worst part is, old age slows ya down, what I used to do all night, now takes me all night to do! :p
(Edit, incidently, I began at age 33, serious lifting that is, and I weighed 155 lbs. It took 4 years to get up to 215, which was my peak weight...then I've since slowly dropped to 195 lbs)
Thats damn good Rip. I personaly feel better at 200ish than 220. I'm not as strong but I'm more cut which the wifey likes....
Oh..and starting at 33 is a hell of a thing to do as well. Most quite after a couple of months... very cool bro :)
xBAT
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My weight training /physical fitness vision had long term visions, knowing I was going to raise a family, I wanted to be sure I was in tip top shape for that family, low and behold, I now have 2 sons, that inspires me even more to hit the weights so I can stay active with them until they're adults! ;) Now if I could just stop these damn cigars! ;)
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No... fast twitch muscle is for explosive power. It is for bursts of speed as well. What it typically lacks is endurance- which is what slow twitch excels at.
If you wanted to do a type of workout that required a large number of reps in each set, then you are usually doing more slow twitch work than fast twitch. If you do the pyramid bench Rip described earlier, that would be more of a fast twitch routine.
In running, sprinters are pure fast twitch, whereas distance runners tend to be more slow twitch. This doesn't mean fast twitch athletes can't be distance runners; fast twitch can be taught to behave as slow twitch. What you can't really do is make slow twitch fast. To this extent, you are either born fast or you're not. Most people can train to excel at distance running, few people can be trained to excel at sprinting.
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Double post
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Okay... maybe I have this mixed up. Now... when I do the 3 reps 8 sets w/one min rest inbetween I'm bringing it down in a very controled manner and and then SUDDENLY EXPLODING upwards. I envision throwing the wieght threw the roof....or blow it up so to speak. I fiqured this works my fast twitch....?
It sure seems to work and a guy who benchs just over 500 is the one who turned me onto it some years ago.
xBAT