Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funkedup on July 24, 2002, 03:52:41 PM
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I'm one of the jaded type players that Pyro talks about sometimes. E.g. We get addicted and play too much, and we get to a point where there is not much to learn. So we get bored and whine and ask for new features and new arenas. We go through a phase where we think the game has changed when it's really we who have changed.
Well this new format is just the kind of thing to knock guys like me out of our rut. Even if there is some stumbling during the development, it looks like a cool experiment that might bring my AH addiction back to a full boil.
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Right on funked! I see many more 4 to 5 hour nights in AH again in my future :D :D :D :D
Good gosh I'm already having withdrawals over this release!!!!!
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Hehe, funked. well said. :D
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Finally, someone LISTENED! WTG HTC. I can't wait to give the new arena a go! And 8th AF setup is a great start.
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Yes, but will we get the Finnish Brewster Buffalo, the Japanese Ki-84 Hayate, the US Sherman tank, the Commonwealth Boomerang, German Stukas, and the French DB 520?
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Hehe, for those who follow the goings on in the CT forum, you'll have seen this coming. For those that don't...:p
Thanks, HTC. I got a feeling I'm gonna have to rethink my on-line time untilization!
Sabre
CT Staff
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This will definitely be the most eagerly awaited version of AH for me ever.
Sounds like it will be right down my alley, everything the CT should have been from the start.
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Originally posted by Durr
Sounds like it will be right down my alley, everything the CT should have been from the start.
Agree.
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54517&highlight=hiTech
HiTech said:
How about we call it the mission theater.
Then change the game play to be mission based only, automaticly run on every hour, with missions for both offense and deffense.
Then change the scorring to be scored on mission accomplishements and not personal achevments?
Then have the CM's create the set off missions for automation?
HiTech
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Edited
wtg ht :)
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Not sure I follow you here Wotan. In the first paragraph HTC states that this will be a separate arena from the MA (and the CT).
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you are right I am way off base :o
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Just when I think HTC are content to give us a 24 hour furball game, they go and to this. You can't trust those guys. :)
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What funked said!This is exactly what I am looking for.
Btw HT can we have Kidd Hofer's P-51 in the new arena?:D
Frodo
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This is gonna be good. I'm a little worried about what happens to the MA if you take out all the hardcore strat players and drop 'em in this "mission theatre"--but hell, let's give it a try and see what happens. MA for quick keeeling, MT for structure...woot, this could ROCK! Thanks HTC!
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We plan to start this arena with an 8th AF/Luftwaffe setup and eventually expand to all theaters
Cool , looking forward to it :cool:
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I'm a little worried about what happens to the MA if you take out all the hardcore strat players
I sure Lazs will be able to shine a little light on that for you...;)
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Mudd, I'm surprised Lazs hasn't shown up on the threads about this new arena. :) Actually I'll bet he likes it. Separate arena, won't affect the folks that like to furball (of which I'm one a lot of the time), what's not to like?
My main concern is what happens if we split the population of the main--if people thought the Pizza was too big with 400-450 online, what happens if we take, say, 150 of them and shift them to another arena? I'm sure that HTC has already considered this, though, and TBH, considering the way AH is growing, this might not be an issue by the time 1.11 comes out in "two weeks".
And maybe a mission arena will get more people into flying structured events like TODs and full-on scenarios. It's a win-win situation! :)
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Originally posted by Moose1
I'm a little worried about what happens to the MA if you take out all the hardcore strat players and drop 'em in this "mission theatre"
That sounds like a feature to me. :)
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Works for me!
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*yawn*
+)
SKurj
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My main concern is what happens if we split the population of the main
Who knows what might happen. If HTS makes a game that appeals to an ever broader customer base then AH might grow to have 450 in the MA, another 180 in the "Mission Arena" and a few dozen more in the other arenas at the same time.
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And maybe a mission arena will get more people into flying structured events like TODs and full-on scenarios. It's a win-win situation!
the SEA only holds 250 folks. Friday ToD hits near 200 every event ends up over booked.
Sunday ToD is less populated then friday tod but still draws a crowd.
I am curious how this will work and how it will be setup. With the exception of late war US and LW plane sets this arena will most likely run into the same things we run into in the combat theater. That is if it will take on a "historical" or "immersive" flavor.
If the missions are as simple "Capture a34" on one side and "Defend a34" on the other with all plane types available then I doudt that it will be a real alternative to the main. If it falls to draw significant numbers then it will be a "milkrun" arena. People have always called for something more then the typical main. Very few actually mean it. Remember all the calls for the "combat" type arena. Half the guys that were for it and loved the idea in those originally threads never fly there. Regardless of how many times the settings are adjusted to reflect the "reasons" why they dont fly there.
I suspect thats what it will be. But I am guessing like everyone else. We dont have the planeset or the terrains or the detailed strat for it to be much more.
I will really have to hold any opinion until I see it work.
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I predict laz will hate it...
due to the fact that while in the MA he can't 'see' or 'talk with' the other arena.
control issues there laz ? :p
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All I can say is WOW! Sounds like a great plan! Looking forward to checking it out.
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Ahhh... I can see it now... 16 P51D's at 25k, , 4 groups of 4 in diamond formation, 5k below 48 b17's in a tight box, below them schwinefurt awaits.
Out front, 8 FW190D9's dive for the box, and 8 more 109G10's in line abrest sweep towards the ponies..
..the ponies pickle the tanks and go to wep, 1/2 after the diving doras, the others engage the 109's..
Mayhem.
Bring it on HTC!
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This sounds like what I've been always dreamed to find from online sims...being able to actually be that fighter pilot in "real virtual war". Now that's "a role playing game" I want to play! :)
Hopefully it's a success and will have big enough sustained player base.
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One thing I have noticed lately, is that a lot of the veterans around here (and on AGW) constantly say they only really get involved with events anymore. They are getting bored. I really appreciate that the HTC group pays attention to the vets and setting this up. I predict it will be far better than the CT (my current home, and still a great place).
:D
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Im in two minds about this.
My immediate reaction is similar to above.. ie: awesome! a career based AH arena but.... Ive seen this before where theres lots of initial enthusiasm tempered once its out by pragmatism.
ie: get killed a few times and see the experten only getting the ranks and I suspect a lot will drift back to the MA for those quickie half hour filler flights.
However I applaud HT for doing it no matter what happens. it shows that they are continually thinking and offering options and that is why were here eh?
personally I was hoping we'd see the beginnings of the first person shooter aspect where you could act out a paratroop role and defend the field with yr trusty M16....
one day....
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:D !!!
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Combat flight sim 2?
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This sounds great. The strat guys will have a place to go do there thing. And this should leave the MA pretty much to the furballers:)
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It just keeps getting better HTC. If they can pull this one off it will be what I've been waiting for for 10 years.
Charon
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
I predict laz will hate it...
due to the fact that while in the MA he can't 'see' or 'talk with' the other arena.
control issues there laz ? :p
Methinks you might be chawing down some crow post 1.11.
I'm all for them giving it a go. I doubt it will have sustainable numbers above that of the CT though.
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I will get all the medals,,,the rest of you will not.
"The best thing about unsolicited commentary is that it is free"
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Originally posted by easymo
This sounds great. The strat guys will have a place to go do there thing. And this should leave the MA pretty much to the furballers:)
Just what the MA needs... less people.
I can hear the whines already.
Looking forward to the MT. Sounds like fun.
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I agree the MA will be left with furballers only,for the above reasons and because all the player that play for score will migrate to this server and battle it out for stats positioning.
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Go figure, sounds like what warbirds had (or maybe still does) a few years ago. At the end of the tour your rank would be assigned depending on where you ended up in the top 100. A bit fuzzy on this but I seem to recall, whoever ended up ranked #1 made General, rank 2-5 make colonel, 6-10 Lt. Col, 11-25 Major and so on and so on... Once you got a rank you kept it unless you changed your callsign. They also kept stats on your best streak in terms of sorties and kills. It was one of the few things I did like about WB.
WTG HT.
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THAT'S IT!!!! this is the final straw!!! Just as I was really cranking up the whineraid sirens HT goes and announces this. I had drafted my whine post for the BBS about the mindless furballing, I was working on my acceptance speech for the Whine of the Week awards show and now HT goes and does this!!! Thanks HT now I get no award, no expensive dinner, no big fancy show with DJ Funkedup spinning Aqua Boogie, Dr. Funkenstein and Mothership Connection. But most disappointing of all, I will never get to hold that gold statue of Rude impregnating a sheep.....THAT'S IT I QUIT!!!!!
Avid
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Underwater boogie baby
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This sounds good, real good :D
Just hope we get the numbers in there , so we can have some REAL war :)
I shure as he** will be in there.
The Wild Vikings
(http://www.lasse.as/twv.gif)
Commanding Officer
Lasse
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This makes me happy I opened an account a few weeks back.
Here's an idea. The one potential snag I see is the timing of mission launches. People are impatient, and won't like waiting for half an hour for launch. How about a system where a player can "reserve" a slot in a mission sometime in the future, and then go fly in another arena. Five minutes before "launch", he gets an alert from the server that his mission is preparing to launch.
The other key will be ensuring the system brings players together. Like in IL2 or a good scenario, a good mission setup brings players near each other at the critical place and time so a fight can happen. If you can find a way to automate that via a host process, you could have a winner.
The danger here is how to prevent milkruns or empty missions. I proposed a system for WW2OL missions a looong time ago that might work. Create a "Goals" structure ... a CM or HTC employee logs in, and pulls up a GUI to set short-term goals for a side. These can be fairly broad and based on time. A 48-hour goal set for one side might be, capture these 8 fields. With this goal laid down, now the auto-mission system can generate a slate of missions in support of that goal. Or, a player CM can do the same.
The missions would be generated for both sides based on that goal. Since the serve knows the goal in terms of objective and location, it can design automatic leap-frog missions to reach it. And design automatic "defense" missions for the other side, to bring people together.
For example, let's say one goal is to secure two or three fields. The server randomly picks a field from the once designated, and makes four missions for the next hour: one is Offensive CAP over the target area, one is Bomb Strike of the target. On the other side, it creates an Area Defense CAP mission near the target area, and an Area Recon in the area surrounding the target. These four missions are designed to put people in the vicinity of the target at the same time. the host monitors progress toward the goal, and creates similar missions as needed.
Capture doesn't need to be the only goal type. Other possibles are, Interdict Supply, Control Air Space, Defend, etc. anything that a host process could look at, analyze the arena, and create an automatic slate of offensive and defensive missions.
Goals could be short-term, say 12 hours, or long term, say 48 hours. They would provide a framework that could run on autopilot, at the "Goals" direction of a CM. Have a maximum of one short-term and one long-term goal per side.
Take those 4 possible goals per side, the automatic missions being generateds in support of them, and you got yourself a non-stop war. Allow ranking players to also post missions in support, and use the same server AI to post a complimentary defensive mission.
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Between HiTech and Pyro, the thought processes and the ability to lay out the future for their software is an amazing one! These guys are brilliant.
Online time here is about to increase with V1.11.:D
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well..... I have allways said that I don't think seperate arenas work... I don't like em much and don't move around in em. Control issues wolfgng? Naa... lazy like most folks. And... tired of the same old tired solutions (seperate communities)
But....I think it is a better CT It might have a few more players... more sustainable numbers than the CT.. For sure we won't have three viable arenas.. Right now, the training arena has more folk than the CT a lot of the time. We really have 4 arenas right now if you consider CT numbers "an arena".
So... will having a few more, even double the CT arena numbers, be enough to make for a viable "missusn arena"??
I really don't know. Depends on how it is promoted. or... that is how it has worked in the past. If they close the MA for a while or if they say, make the MA some sort of relaxed realism or... neglect the MA with new features then I think... the new arena will have all the players but... AH will go the way of WB... Glowing acolades fro9m the few who play it but steadily dwindling numbers.
Will I be happy if 60 or so of the worst strat guys leave thje MA and we have 2 seperate communities with them being ignored? Not much. ..
How do I see an arena with 60 or so of the worst egos to ever hit any online sim all feeling toejam on because their brand of realism is not getting enough attention?? Gee... that's a tough one.
but.... in the end.... if it is fun it will live. if it is boring then it will die. I don't see two AH's being viable tho. No more than I could see the CT being thjat way.
lazs
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Originally posted by ra
Just when I think HTC are content to give us a 24 hour furball game, they go and to this. You can't trust those guys. :)
I really don't see the MA as just a furball game .
Well HT said once that his game was like a road trip , and to stick around for the ride .
So far it's mostly been a fun ride for me :) Wonder how long this "trip" will be ?
While lazs gets his share of bad press , he called it on the CT . Not many fly there for sure .
PS: lazs , I love bombers , not flying them but shooting them down :D , please take it a little easier on the bomber guys ok ? I want more targets up , NOT less , hehe . ( so far the formation addition to the game had added 2 more kills 8^) )
take care
spro
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Spitboy
From a recent WB refugee, welcome to AH. :)
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In response to the milk run/empty missions worry - and as an alternative to automated mission generation - i think once it's up and running for a while, some people could have gained high enough ranks to post missions. That way we would get up to a dynamic war which would be amazing. I know this sounds like WW2OL - but this is AH, so it will be better :)
I've said it before - but i think this is an amazing innovation for AH that will give people more gameplay choices and answer a lot of the pro/anti furballing complaints on these boards.
Unlike Faminz, i've no interest in seeing AH turn into a FPS, i like it as a flight sim, tanks, buildings, etc. interest me when they interact with aircraft. The more it develops as a realistic flight sim, the more i love it.
Unlike Gofaster and Wotan i don't think we're all that desperately in need of more planes, much as i love them. HT could tread water by releasing 5 new planes a month for years and people would still complain that they couldn't make realistic scenarios because of gaps in the planeset. I think 1.11 sounds genuinely exciting.
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I never lost faith in HTC
hint
:D
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Originally posted by crowbaby
In response to the milk run/empty missions worry - and as an alternative to automated mission generation - i think once it's up and running for a while, some people could have gained high enough ranks to post missions. That way we would get up to a dynamic war which would be amazing. I know this sounds like WW2OL - but this is AH, so it will be better :)
The problem is, is doesn't quite work out that way in WW2OL. You gain rank, and then post a mission to attack a CP. The "other side" doesn't know about this, so it's likely you will waltz into an undefended town. An auto-defense pops up if the forward base dies, but no one pays attention to those. So big fights sort of happen over time, and by accident, once people figure out where others are. That works with 1,500 people. It won't work with 150.
The system will need to channel people together automatically. Now, that doesn't preclude people posting missions ... it just means the server gotta be smart enough to see mission X was posted, and to auto-create a meaningful mission Y for the other side that will make contact likely to occur.
Not second-guessing HTC at all. Just tossing out some ideas :)
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This looks very promising.
Lesse: WW2OL for BoF, AH for Fortress Europe and TR for the pacific:)
Daff
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A lot of possibilites here. If the scripted missions were somewhat dynamic then something like this could be implemented: Offensive mission scheduled to attack base X, launch time 2200 hrs, estimated arrival time at target, 2215 hrs.
At 2205 server generates defensive mission for base X with number of slots dependent on number of slots filled in offensive mission. Launch time 2210.
Many other possible scenarios, Multiple attack missions launched simultaneously from 4-5 fields. Defensive CAP/sweep missions launched just prior to launch of attack missions. The possibilities are endless, but so would seem the work required to build an AI General of this scope.
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Have you ever used some of the third-party tools for creating missions in IL2? That's exactly what they do, using a bit of logic and waypoints. And if you can do it in a little program like that made by a third-party, you can code in the logic to do it on a bigger scale, automagically, behind the scenes.
It would take a lot of tweaking and adjusting, but I am convinced it could be done. I've been hoping for that type of system for years.
By removing the need for constant missions, it reduces the complexity. Have missions kick off every 15 or 30 minutes. So the server only has to poll the arena, goals and progress every XX minutes and create a new slate of missions.
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If nothing else, we will find out who has been talking out of their butt, about wanting strat.
Its not as good as an anouncment that there would be a fighter only arena. But, its the next best thing.
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I'm tring to get my Squad interested in this idea for SN.
BTW:'Air Launch' the Heavy Bombers.......:rolleyes:
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easy... i don't really think seperate arenas prove anything... seperate arenas tend to make people go where the crowd is regardless of their particular taste.... their first choice is the arena with the people in it.
If anything I think the "historical" and "strat" guys are more picky and opinionated than most. I think that the ego thing hits them harder and they tend to all have a different idea of what is "missuns' or "strat" or "realistic" and they will not play unless their particular brand of said characteristics is modeled exactly as they feel it should be.
lazs