Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Mitsu on July 24, 2002, 10:13:40 PM
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We got D3A1 Val in V1.10.
It is interesting plane. unbelievably turnable, and good dive-bombsight.
However, this plane is too old for flying in Main Arena, ineffective, and also it is the "Flying Coffin" like a historical fact (Japanese pilots called it so).
So, we want D4Y2 Judy that is successor aircraft to D3A Val. D4Y series aircraft is IJNAF's carrier-based dive bomber that participated actively from the middle of war to the end. This plane was very beautiful, and high-performance bomber.
D4Y2 (Judy 22)
Dimensions:
Span 11.50m
Length 10.22m
Height 3.74m
Wing area 23.6m^2
Aspect ratio 5.60
Powerplant:
1 x Aichi AE1P Atsuta 32 12-cylinder liquid-cooled vee engine
Takeoff power 1,400hp
Normal power 1,340hp at 1,700m / 1,280hp at 5,000m
Weights:
Empty 2,550kg
Gross 3,750kg
Overload (bombing) 4,115kg
Overload (Recon) 4,623kg
Wing loading 158.898kg/m^2
Power loading 2.681kg/m^2
Performance:
Maximum speed 580km/h at 5,250m
Cruising speed 426km/h at 3,000m
Landing speed 145km/h
Climb to 3,000m in 4 minutes 36 seconds
Climb to 5,000m in 7 minutes 40 seconds
Service ceiling 10,700m
Range 1,463km (normal load at bombing mission)
2,389km (overload at bombing mission)
3,604km (overload at recon mission)
Armament:
2 x fuselage-mounted 7.7mm Type-97 machine-guns
1 x rear-firing flexible 7.92mm Type-1 machine-gun (D4Y2) / 1 x rear-firing flexible 13mm Type-2 machine-gun (D4Y2a)
Bomb-load:
Normal 1 x 250kg bomb in internal fuselage bay and 2 x 30kg bombs one under each wing
Overload 1 x 500kg bomb in internal fuselage bay and 2 x 30kg bombs one under each wing
Also, it is air-cooled engined land-based dive bomber though, D4Y3 would be interesting that can carry more bombs and has longer range. Actually it is used for more sorties than D4Y2 in the late of war. Sadly D4Y3 is also often used for kamikaze attack.
D4Y3 (Judy 33)
Dimensions:
Span 11.50m
Length 10.22m
Height 3.74m
Wing area 23.6m^2
Aspect ratio 5.60
Powerplant:
1 x Mitsubishi MK8P Kinsei 62 14-cylinder air-cooled radial engine
Takeoff power 1,560hp
Normal power 1,360hp at 2,100m / 1,190hp at 5,800m
Weights:
Empty 2,500kg
Gross 3,750kg
Overload (bombing) 4,120kg
Wing loading 158.898kg/m^2
Power loading 2.403kg/m^2
Performance:
Maximum speed 561km/h at 5,900m
Cruising speed 370km/h at 3,000m
Climb to 3,000m in 4 minutes 35 seconds
Climb to 6,000m in 9 minutes 18 seconds
Service ceiling 10,500m
Range 1,520km (normal load at bombing mission)
2,890km (overload at bombing mission)
Armament:
2 x fuselage-mounted 7.7mm Type-97 machine-guns
1 x rear-firing flexible 7.92mm Type-1 machine-gun (D4Y3) / 1 x rear-firing flexible 13mm Type-2 machine-gun (D4Y3a)
Bomb-load:
Normal 1 x 250kg or 1 x 500kg bomb in internal fuselage bay and 2 x 30kg bombs one under each wing
Overload 1 x 500kg bomb in internal fuselage bay and 2 x 250kg bombs one under each wing
I remember that HTC did the poll about next carrier-based dive bomber in the MA in V1.09. HTC selected Val this time, but now please give us Judy. ;)
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My favorite pic of Judy #1
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My favorite pic of Judy #2
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This is my favorite picture of a Judy:
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Seriously though, I would like to see the D4Y here at some point. I would also like to see both the B5N and B6N as well. Then we can do early, mid and late war CV battles. Would be fun.
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Ooh Mathman, that was a good one.
I've always wanted to see more late war Japanese planes, and the D4Y certainly ranks right up there.
Most people seem to want to recreate the 1942 Pacific carrier battles though, and if you calculate the pace at which Japanese planes have been introduced to the game, it may well be a very long time before we see the D4Y in AH.
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Good one, Mathman!
I'd like to see the Judy brought into the planeset. I think it'd be a good balancer to the TBM in the USN vs IJN battles, and would probably get a lot of use in the MA as well.
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Originally posted by oboe
I've always wanted to see more late war Japanese planes, and the D4Y certainly ranks right up there.
Most people seem to want to recreate the 1942 Pacific carrier battles though, and if you calculate the pace at which Japanese planes have been introduced to the game, it may well be a very long time before we see the D4Y in AH.
I think the problem is that people look at history with a little bit of a skewed view. When they look at the carrier battles of 1944, all they see is the USN wiping the IJN out of the sky and under the sea. This makes them believe that any recreation of a late war CV battle would be a lopsided victory for the USN. What made the battles such lopsided victories by the USN was the lack of adequately trained and experienced pilots and inept commanders (compared to the likes of USN admirals like Mitscher). This is where the tables would/could be turned in a recreation of these battles in AH. The pilots and commanders would be better (they have more time "flying" and can learn from the mistakes of the past much easier).
With competent pilots, the IJN side copuld definitely give the USN side a run for its money and has a very definite chance of coming out victorious.
Either that or I just want to recreate the Battle of the Phillipine Sea (aka Marianas Turkey Shoot). :)
Seriously, I would love to see the Judy introduced, as well as the Kate and Jill.
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Originally posted by oboe
Most people seem to want to recreate the 1942 Pacific carrier battles though,
Yeah, the 1942 CV duels were the Pacific Equivalent of the BoB in my opinion. I mean, it's the point in the war when the greatest parity was achieved.
However, with that said, HiTech did mention in the Q&A that with a nice base of early war planes now introduced, they would no longer be as focused on early planes, so who knows, maybe the Judy could show up someday.
-Sikboy
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Nice base?!, vomits in bucket, ya if ya like Alled stuff it's a nice base. We have 2 Japanese planes from the early war and what like 4 times that many alleid one's! It is certainly a great start and I by no means intend to po po the work that has been done, but it is very dificult to make a decent set up in the CT with the Japanese plane set we have now, hopefully the tide will turn and geting one new Japanese plane a year will change two at least two:)
The Judy is a nice plane and certainly historicaly revelent, I hope for Mitsu's sake he get's his dream ride.
I howeaver hope to get the ultimate Japanese strike plane from the 44/45 time perioud, and one that the MA gould use as well as the CT. The B7A Rysuei.
Two 20mm Type 99MK 2 cannons in the wings.
One 13mm type 2 Machine gun in the rear.
One 1,764 pound torpedo.
or 1, 764 pounds of bombs.
Manuaverabality equile to that of the A6M fighter.
Preformance:
352mph at 21, 490 ft.
13, 125ft in 6min and 55 sec.
Now with all do respect to Mitsu, Why would you if you could, pick a Judy over a Grace if you were in the hanger and looking at the clipboard. Or rather when you pulled up on that guyes six and were trying to wory him to death with those 7mm bb's, when you could be watching him explode as you pumped him full of 20mm.
Pic, curitsy of Mitsu:
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Originally posted by Mathman
I think the problem is that people look at history with a little bit of a skewed view. When they look at the carrier battles of 1944, all they see is the USN wiping the IJN out of the sky and under the sea. This makes them believe that any recreation of a late war CV battle would be a lopsided victory for the USN. What made the battles such lopsided victories by the USN was the lack of adequately trained and experienced pilots and inept commanders (compared to the likes of USN admirals like Mitscher). This is where the tables would/could be turned in a recreation of these battles in AH. The pilots and commanders would be better (they have more time "flying" and can learn from the mistakes of the past much easier).
With competent pilots, the IJN side copuld definitely give the USN side a run for its money and has a very definite chance of coming out victorious.
I think you are absolutely right, Mathman. I think in AH, the full 1944 Japanese planeset could hold its own very well against all comers.
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The japanese avenger nice pics
:D
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I don't care what it is! Put it in, and I'll be sure to shoot it out of the sky! :)
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Damn nice photo Math.
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I'd love to see the Betty in AH - fast bomber w/ good high alt capability, tordonuts & 20mm in tail and top - attacking a Betty from high 6 you would be facing 6 x 20mm
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Actualy,the best your going to get is:
G4M2a model 24C:
nose:one 13mm Type 2 and one 7.7mm Type 92
Dorsal turet: one 20mm Type 99 mk II
Beam blisters/hatches: two 20mm Type 99 mk II(thats one in each)
Tail: 20mm mk II(one)
So at the best you would have 4 Cannons firing at once althought I seriously doubt that the covered arks would overlap suficentaly to allow this.
Also the Betty is extreamy easy to kill, they were dubed the "one Shot Lighter" for a reasion:)
The Peggy we have is a much better machine, and the Ho 103's and Ho -5 cannon on it are better defensive weapons than the 20mm Type 99 MK II, they have a much Higher rof. It also would take HTC a consederable amount of thime to build us a Betty, time better spen filling whole's in the Japanese plane set. In the same time it takes them to build a Betty we could have a couple fighter, or Maybe a Grace and a Fighter. Or a JUddy and a Fighter.
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Originally posted by brady
Actualy,the best your going to get is:
G4M2a model 24C:
Nose: one 13mm Type 2 and one 7.7mm Type 92
Dorsal turet: one 20mm Type 99 mk II
Beam blisters/hatches: two 20mm Type 99 mk II(thats one in each)
Tail: 20mm mk II(one)
So at the best you would have 4 Cannons firing at once althought I seriously doubt that the covered arks would overlap suficentaly to allow this.
Also the Betty is extreamy easy to kill, they were dubed the "one Shot Lighter" for a reasion:)
The Peggy we have is a much better machine, and the Ho 103's and Ho -5 cannon on it are better defensive weapons than the 20mm Type 99 MK II, they have a much Higher rof. It also would take HTC a consederable amount of thime to build us a Betty, time better spen filling whole's in the Japanese plane set. In the same time it takes them to build a Betty we could have a couple fighter, or Maybe a Grace and a Fighter. Or a JUddy and a Fighter.
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Judy, Jill, Emily...they would be good additions.
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Ja, Emily had heavy defensive too, I've read, & plenty of range, but no high alt capability to speak of & slow
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whgates3,
Er, the Emily had better high altitude capability than the Lancaster. Could make 290mph, faster than either the G4M "Betty", B-17G or Lancaster. It climbed at a rate nearly 3 times that of the Lancaster. It had armored crew positions, fully protected fuel tanks and was very sturdily built.
Here is a synopsis:
Engines: four Mitsubishi MK4Q Kasei 22 at 1,850hp.
Speed: 290mph
Ceiling: 29,000ft
Climb: 10 minutes, 12 seconds to 16,400ft. Average climb of 1,600ft per minute.
Range: 4,450 miles.
Armament: five 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannon, one each in bow, dorsal, tail turrets and two beam hatches, and four 7.7mm Type 92 machine-guns, one each in ventral, port and starboard fuselage sides and cockpit hatches.
Ordanance: eight 250kg bombs or two 800kg torpedoes.
Number Built: 167 of all versions. The H8K2 was the major version with 112 built.
This is quite probably the most capable bomber the Japanese used in WWII. Quite frankly, compared to the Allies, the Japanese are screwed when it comes to attacking things. The H8K2 can at least carry 8 550lb bombs, that is enough to inflict some damage and is twice as much as any other Japanese bomber that I have seen. The H8K2 also has the destinction of being extremely durable, quite possibly the most durable aircraft feilded by any nation in WWII. Because the H8K2 is a flying boat it would have to be enabled only at ports and coastal bases (where it would spawn in the water like a PT Boat).
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The Emily would add a bunch to the Game imo, The addation of float/sea planes would be so freaking cool:)
She would add much for Japanese side playabality in scenarious, and in the CT.
She would be a usefull MA bomber type, bristling with 20mm cannons.
The availabilty of Planes from the Ports awould be great:)
Special coastal V bases/ Seaplane bases could be added.
Free saki for all would nice too, ya know I realy do like saki, A nice high grade saki, wounderfull stuff so pure and clean it is you are almost better off for drinking it:) I like mine chilled.
Did I get side tracked.....
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brady,
Its spelled "sake".
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Karnak, I follow you, H8K Emily could carry these bombs:
16 x 60kg bombs
8 x 250kg bombs
2 x 800kg bombs
2 x 1500kg bombs
2 x 800kg torpedos
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TY Karnak: my poor spelling is legendary :) TY all for your paticence.
Mitsu, is their a good source for picks on the Emily, I mean if HTC wanted to model it could they?
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Originally posted by Mitsu
Karnak, I follow you, H8K Emily could carry these bombs:
16 x 60kg bombs
8 x 250kg bombs
2 x 800kg bombs
2 x 1500kg bombs
2 x 800kg torpedos
That would be great. The two 1500kg bombs might be few in number, but they'd hit hard where they landed. that is 6,600lbs of bombs. Far, far better than any other Japanese aircraft.
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That means H8K with 3 ship-formation can defeat enemy HQ. :)
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wow karnak, i thought all those flying boats were a bunch of big oafs lumbering around at 140 mph, & i'd read in so many different places that the betty was fast w/ great climb (for a bomber) - - guess i shoulda read a book or something - or maybe just looked at those 4 big engines....
how about Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka "Baka" as perk ride for nonconformists
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whgates3,
You are correct about most flying boats, but there are a few that stand out. The H8K "Emily" is considered to be the single biggest advance for flying boats ever, and remained the best and most sophisticated flying boat in the world for many years after WWII.
H8K "Emily" shots:
(http://www.strategyplanet.com/commandos/images/h8k2_7.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/george_ele/Emily1.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/hiroyuki%20_takeuchi/h8k25.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/other/kasei1.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/george_ele/Emily2.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/george_ele/Emily9.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/george_ele/Emily5.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/george_ele/Emily12.jpg)
(http://www.strategyplanet.com/commandos/images/h8k2_6.jpg)
(http://www.strategyplanet.com/commandos/images/h8k2_4_UpperDeck.jpg)
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Man I wish they would put her in a Building:(
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Originally posted by brady
Mitsu, is their a good source for picks on the Emily, I mean if HTC wanted to model it could they?
Yes I have a good source.
I'll scan some samples images of them to the new topic.
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p.
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Mitsu, do you know from a source or two of yours if and when the Judy used 500KG bombs operationaly? I have a couple but I want to see if you do as well, if you do I would like to post them in another forum.
Also any info you have of a Val using the 2x 60 KG bombs and one 250 KG bomb on the same mishion aganst shiping would be great.
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My Japanese Suisei book says D4Y could load load a 500kg or 250kg bombs under fuselage, 2 30 or 60kg bombs under the wing. also that source says D4Y couldn't close fuselage bomb bay door when loading 250kg-500kg bomb. It would cause drag, it gives slower speed to D4Y...
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Is your source:
Title: Mechanism of Military Aircraft [11] "Suisei" / "Type 99 Carrier Bomber"
Size: B5 / 169pages
ISBN: 4-7698-0681-7
Does it say they used the 500KG Bomb operationaly aganst ships?
............................. ........
(http://www.myphotodrive.com//uploads/649_Princton.jpg)
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Sources vary on the Bomb type employed aganst the USS Princton, some say it was a 500KG bomb some say it was a 250 KG bomb.