Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on July 25, 2002, 08:57:03 AM
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"Most Afghan boys are circumcised between the age of two and five by religious elders who say a prayer before removing the foreskin with a knife -- without anaesthetic.
If the boys are lucky, they will be plunged into an icy stream before the ritual in order to numb any pain."
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"Any pain" would be an understatement! :)
Full Story (http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/ns/story.jsp?floc=FF-RTO-reodd&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20020723%2F082824292.htm&sc=reodd)
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Ever watch a circumcision?
It's senseless, brutal act of maiming done without anesthetic...
... oh and it happens every day to hundreds if not thousands of infant boys in this country.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Ever watch a circumcision?
It's senseless, brutal act of maiming done without anesthetic...
... oh and it happens every day to hundreds if not thousands of infant boys in this country.
Infancy pre-1: "No recall of the pain associated with the surgical procedure"
1 yrs or older: "Total recall of the pain associated with the surgical procedure"
Senseless? I guess if you could care less about the hygiene aspect of it...
;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Senseless? I guess if you could care less about the hygiene aspect of it...
;)
You could have your arms removed too, wouldn't ever have to wash those pesky armpits again! :rolleyes:
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It isn't the circumcision of boys that concerns me in Musilm countries...it is the circumcision of girls that deeply disturbs me!
I got cut...I have no memory of it..thank God. I'm also glad it was done. Uncut looks awful...and from what I have been told (by women) can smell pretty awful if not looked after properly.
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Incidently just about ALL hospitals use local anestisia (sp) today for these minor procedures (pun intended)
1. Protection from urinary tract infection (UTI)
Since 1980, at least ten research studies have been published linking urinary tract infections to a lack of circumcision. 1-10 These studies found a minimum twelve-fold increased risk for urinary tract infections among uncircumcised males one to sixteen years of age, as well as among adult males. There is no data that contradicts these findings.
In 1997 a team of pediatric surgeons at Wolfson Hospital, Holon, Israel, conducted a study that established a relationship between failure to circumcise and increased urinary tract infection in infants. The team concluded that “streptococci, strict anaerobes, and genital mycoplasmas were found almost exclusively in uncircumcised males of more than fifteen years of age.” They further stated, “Our results also support the role of the prepuce [uncircumcised foreskin] as a reservoir for sexually transmitted organisms.” 11
2. Guarding against cervical cancer
In an important study done on the cause of cervical cancer, it was discovered that there was a 2,000% greater incidence of cervical cancer among non-Jewish women whose husbands were uncircumcised. A New England Journal of Medicine article, published in April 2002, affirms the relationship between cervical cancer and men who are not circumcised. 12 In reporting on this study, The Wall Street Journal notes the long-standing debate over the merits of circumcision in combating sexually transmitted diseases: “The results come at a time when public opinion is turning away from circumcision, which many doctors have increasingly come to view as painful and unnecessary.” 13
According to the Journal, “uncircumcised men are more likely to harbor human papilloma virus (HPV).” HPV, a sexually transmitted virus, is believed to cause nearly all cervical cancer. The article also states that if all men were circumcised, it could “reduce the incidence of cervical cancer world-wide by as much as 43%.”
3. Avoidance of penile cancer
After reviewing the data from 50,000 cases in the past half-century, Dr. Thomas Wiswell concluded that “circumcision categorically prevents penile cancer.” 14 Out of 50,000 cancer cases, only ten had occurred in circumcised men. These men had all been circumcised later in life. Thus, none of the men diagnosed with penile cancer had been circumcised during infancy. 15,16
4. Reduction of harmful bacteria
Circumcision unquestionably facilitates better hygiene and the avoidance of conditions that result from uncleanliness. However, the most compelling reasons for circumcision among pediatric surgeons and urologists are balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and phimosis (stricture of the foreskin, resulting from recurrent infections). These painful conditions almost always occur in uncircumcised males. In babies, balanitis is caused by soiled diapers, as well as by playing or sitting in dirty areas.
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3. Avoidance of penile cancer
After reviewing the data from 50,000 cases in the past half-century, Dr. Thomas Wiswell concluded that “circumcision categorically prevents penile cancer.” 14 Out of 50,000 cancer cases, only ten had occurred in circumcised men. These men had all been circumcised later in life. Thus, none of the men diagnosed with penile cancer had been circumcised during infancy. 15,16
I bet if we had little girls breasts removed we could avoid breast cancer too.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I bet if we had little girls breasts removed we could avoid breast cancer too.
Maybe..but if you get circumcised they don't cut the whole thing off...just the skin at the end.
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Sounds like someone is a little sensitive about their turtle neck. :)
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I've always found it makes for interesting talking point if the women hasn't been with a circumsized man before... ;)
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this is to be expected from a culture that has Seven Day toejamters
ex AF co-worker was telling me about these, talk about nutcases :rolleyes:
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1. Contradictory evidence regarding UTI can be found here: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/altschul/
2. The cervical cancer argument as been disproved here: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer//
3. For penile cancer: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer//maden/
4. For bacteria... proper care: http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/care/
The International Coalition for Genital Integrity has classified circumcision as a type I genital mutilation.
Circumcision is surgery, and like all surgery it has risks. These include:
Excessive bleeding
Injury to the glans
Infection (raw wound is exposed to feces and urine in diaper)
Complications from anaesthesia, if used
Surgical error, including removal of too much skin
In rare cases, complications can be life-threatening.
Up to 20% of circumcised males will suffer from one or more of the following complications, to some degree:
Meatal stenosis (narrowing of the urethral opening due to infection and subsequent scarring, that occurs almost exclusively in circumcised boys) [15]
extensive scarring of the penile shaft
skin tags and skin bridges
bleeding of the circumcision scar
curvature of the noodle
tight, painful erections
psychological and psychosexual problems
I stand by my statement. It's brutal and unnecessary.
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What Sandman said. And infantile amnesia is no rationalization for someone hurting and mutilating a baby. The baby still experiences it.
The only reason people have their baby boys mutilated is because they're are sheep follow what's "normal" in western society.
Luckily, less and less people are practicing this bizarre ritual.
If having foreskin was so bad don't you think evolution would have taken care of it by now?
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Well, its not like your not known to put your head in the sand ;)
I stand by mine, which, I might add, is supported by the AMA.
Through the 1990s and into the new millenium a reversal of the downtrend began. In the light of an increasing volume of medical scientific evidence pointing to the benefits of neonatal circumcision, the pediatric professional bodies of various countries have reviewed the evidence and formulated recent policy statements. The reports have to be read in their entirety to be fully comprehended. Isolated quotes taken from these by anti-circ groups is a problem. What is stated in the details of the various reports is much like what is presented in the present review of the medical literature. The latest statements of the American Association of Pediatrics in 1999 [7], the Canadian Paediatric Society [54] and the Australian College of Paediatrics in August 1995 and adopted by the College in May 1996 [11] provide information on the benefits and possibility of rare or minor risks. These fall short of drawing an obvious conclusion from the evidence they present, i.e., that circumcision is the best choice for lifetime health and sexual well-being. The hesitancy is undoubtedly a consequence of the sensitivity of this issue, as well as medico-legal caution and the recognition of the hysteria that this subject can provoke because of the diversity of opinion in the community, where anti-circ groups tend to bombard such professional bodies in an attempt to "win" their political cause. More on this is in the section "Anti-circumcision lobby groups".
Instead, the statements of these professional bodies urge medical practitioners to fully inform parents of the benefits and minor, rare risks of having their male children circumcised. Thus publicly they give the impression that the benefits and harms were very evenly balanced [64]. However, well-informed medical practitioners only have to read the statements in full to be able to draw their own conclusion. Recognized authorities in the USA in particular strongly advocate circumcision of all newborn boys.
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I gotta be honest here....both my boys are UNcircumscised.
I just couldn't do it to them.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Less and less ....
Wrong as usual Thrawn, 70% are done in the US.
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I'm not sensitive. I was born in the 50's. We all got clipped back then. Sheesh it almost put me into the single digit length category :p .
In the US 65% of male babies are circumcised. In England I believe the rate is 3.5%. There is a movement underway in England now saying the rate of 3.5% is abnormally high.
The AAP (American Association of Pediatricians) is against the practice also.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, its not like your not known to put your head in the sand ;)
I stand by mine, which, I might add, is supported by the AMA.
It wasn't in 1999. Has something changed?
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision."
oh... source: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/article/2036-2511.html
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Wrong as usual Thrawn, 70% are done in the US.
Dickhead has usual Rip.
Your statement makes no sense, in the context of mine.
By the by, you should have actually read what the Canadian Pediatric Association Society said before using it as a source. :rolleyes:
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm
I wonder how much of the rest of your post is unsubstaciated BS?
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One thing to add... the cicumcision I witnessed was done by the Navy Hospital at Balboa and they did not use anesthetic. It was in 1988.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Dickhead has usual Rip.
Well, when you resort to name calling, you lost...loser :D
Read this text Thrawn:
"70% of males are circumsized in the USA."
Need glasses, hollar, I'll send you some. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, when you resort to name calling, you lost...loser :D
:p
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The practice of circumcision stems from religious ritualism. Hygiene is the rationale that is used to perpetuate the practice . I don't recall any local anesthetic being used on the half a dozen circumcisions I witnessed in mid 90s, they squirted some Lido with epi on it afterwards to quell the bleeding . I actually remember being told by a female instructer that they don't feel it. I thought to myself "puhlease.. anyone who says that has obvioulsy not gotten it caught in a zipper" . There are no drawbacks to not having a circumsicion done, the same cannot be said about getting one . Foreskin serves about the same role as the females labia, thank goodness we don't cut those off .
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Originally posted by Curval
I gotta be honest here....both my boys are UNcircumscised.
I just couldn't do it to them.
I am not and was not considering doing it to my baby untill my niece and my italian relative-by marriage told me that girls/women of relevant circles considered it very important.
Since it was done in a hospital with local anesthetic on the second day, there was no pain - it took five minutes out of our sight and he was sleeping as peacefully when brought back as when taken away.
From my personal experience watching babies of my jewish friends - who underwent it without local anesthetic, the pain is comparable to gas or upcoming burp - the baby cries for a few minutes.
miko
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What do you mean by relevant circles ?
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Originally posted by Samm
What do you mean by relevant circles ?
Girls with big breasts. ;)
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Originally posted by Samm
What do you mean by relevant circles?
Russian/italian/jewish/pushtu/arab community - basically those people who live in the neighbourhood and go to the local school.
I have no idea what chinese/japanese think about circumcision, but if a japanese girl decides to go out with my boy, she will give him more leeway than a girl from the same culture would regarding the presence/absence of circumcision.
Basically, in US about 70% of males are circumcised, but in my niece's school 99% are.
Girls with big breasts.
Among few things in which I will try to teach my boy to be non-american is the obsession with disproportionate breasts.
miko
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You might also want to point out the difference between a joke and a statement of fact, and teach him the ability to refrain from over-analyzing an issue. Both would be helpful.
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This is in no way statistically accurate, but most of the women I've talked to about the esthetics of circumcised vs uncut, prefer circumcised dick.
Of course, the men in societies that have female circumcision prefer thier women cut as well.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You might also want to point out the difference between a joke and a statement of fact, and teach him the ability to refrain from over-analyzing an issue. Both would be helpful.
I do appreciate your joke but the obcession is quite real, so why not take a shot at it?
Compared to major painfull and dangerous breast surgery that many women undergo becasue of common obsession or even under direct pressure from their mates, the minor matter of circumcision that Rip brugh up is trivial.
I imagine Taliban scaring their people "No wonder americans are messed up in thehead - they cut their women breasts and stuff them with plastic..."
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"The International Coalition for Genital Integrity has classified circumcision as a type I genital mutilation." -- Sandman
Hehehehehehehahahahahahohohoh oho... That ICGI, now there's a partying bunch!
I hear their last convention was at South Padre. The Greater South Padre Chamber of Commerce has barred them from ever returning. It seems the delegates spent an excessive amount of time swimming in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and now they can't get the stink off the fish!
:p
(Edit: Apology to Thrawn for prior error)
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(http://www.krysstal.com/images/nat03.jpg)
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What has happened to this BBS? used to be exciting.
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Originally posted by Corwin
"The International Coalition for Genital Integrity has classified circumcision as a type I genital mutilation." -- Thrawn
What the hell are you doing attributing that quote to me? I never said or printed that.
"I have sex with goats." -- Corwin
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Thrawn, then I take it you are in favor of mutilations??? :0
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Thrawn, then I take it you are in favor of mutilations??? :0
Jeesus...
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Thrawn,
You are wayyyy too tightly wrapped.
And I thought you were going to stop posting, as it was only for Quote "our betterment" End Quote, and us neanderthals didn't completely grasp that fact.
Relax, it's better that way :)
Plus I have it good authority that Corwin DOES have sex with goats!
Cobra
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Originally posted by Cobra
And I thought you were going to stop posting, as it was only for Quote "our betterment" End Quote, and us neanderthals didn't completely grasp that fact.
Relax, it's better that way :)
Plus I have it good authority that Corwin DOES have sex with goats!
Cobra
I was drunk when I wrote that post and can't be held accountable for it.
But there is a grain of truth to it. What can I say, I work in a call center and I have to kill the time somehow (My boss told me that I can't keep a 40 of scotch at my desk anymore.:o )
Edit: Come to think of it I've been drunk when I've written all my posts so can't be held accountable for any of them...yeah that's it.
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LOL Thrawn!
I retract my wrapped too tight observation, but Corwin DOES have sex with Goats!
Cobra
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Oops Thrawn! Sorry buddy. I went back and fixed it.
Cobra those aren't goats they're "pets". I think there is a distinct difference and I am shocked by your lack of sensitivity. Don't make me cut you out of the next ICGI Conference buddy. We're going to be formulating our position paper on labial piercing and I know that's a subject you feel very close to personally.
:p
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LOL!! :D
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sounds like someone had his boys snipped and wants to feel good about it.
I let my boys decide for themselves when they are older.
Only problems either of them have had were before we learned em to clean themselves properly. They both got little infections arround 5 or 6 and did real well after that. Should we get thier ears removed because they get ear infections?
I remember from my prenatal class, during the circumcision discusion one woman said right out.
"that bastard that got me pregnant was uncircimcised so if its a boy Ill pay the 40 dollars to circumcise him".
sigh
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This thread gets 10 tard points.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Basically, in US about 70% of males are circumcised, but in my niece's school 99% are.
miko
How did you niece figure that out !?
Don't any boys of western european lineage go to that school ?
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Originally posted by Samm
How did you niece figure that out !?
yeah, I was wondering too. Did she test a sample and do the statistics, or did she do them all :)
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I can't remember a godddarn thing from the ago of two. Anything from 6 down is a vague memory at best. And very few of those.
So whether it's second day or second year, prabably doesn't really matter much.
As for the procedure itself, it's stupid. Dumb religous ritual that religous zeolots for years tried to find a justification for.
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double post
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Eagler, noone else seemed to find that funny, but I my friend, was damn near wetting myself. Theres nothing like a subtle picture in a circumcision thread to make ones day.
Well done :)
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Fat Bastard Voice mode on: Turtle Necks are ded sexy....
Corwin,
It's the ICGI that has cut it's loyal members out. They've trimmed back on the original mandate, while bringing to the fore, issues that only proove how thin-skinned they are.
You would see that if you weren't consumed with your lust for inter-species pleasure!
Cobra
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Originally posted by Pongo
?
sounds like someone had his boys snipped and wants to feel good about it.
I let my boys decide for themselves when they are older.
Only problems either of them have had were before we learned em to clean themselves properly. They both got little infections arround 5 or 6 and did real well after that.
It sounds to me like someone neglected to have his boys snipped and wants to feel good about it. Yeah, let them decide for themselves when they're older- "Hey son, how would you like to have your foreskin cut off? We could have done it when you were a baby but we thought you should have the final decision."
"Gee Dad, thanks for respecting my wishes regarding my genital mutilation. I'm not intrested in getting circumsized, but I WOULD like a tattoo and a piercing on my noodle instead."
Now do me a favor- define "little" infection.
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There has been a lot of research done which shows that events in early childhood can have a huge psychological effect on infants, even if they can't recall the events. I would say that "normal" circumcision in the US falls into this category.
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Originally posted by funkedup
There has been a lot of research done which shows that events in early childhood can have a huge psychological effect on infants, even if they can't recall the events. I would say that "normal" circumcision in the US falls into this category.
THAT explains alot about the postings on this BBS :D
Cobra
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there is a word i don't undertand in this post : Hygiene
can some one explain it to me ?
and it would be kind to explain me the other word I don't know like : bath shower and soap ..
Straffo .... a poor frenchman lost in this English BBS ...
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Originally posted by straffo
there is a word i don't undertand in this post : Hygiene
can some one explain it to me ?
hehe
a Frenchman asks this :)
j/k
it means taking a bath, keeping oneself clean (all over) :)
You guys do worry me, over 50+ posts concerning ur willies shape :)
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but if you use word having no equivalent in french like bath or clean there is no way for me to understand your statement :D
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Ya elfy..they are welcome to do anything they like with them..its theirs buddy...
Hard to believe old darwin would have left us with the things if they were so deadly to us..lol
But if your shamen demands the sacrifice of your sons forskins for the glory of your pagan god...go for it...
just dont pretend it has anything to do with his health. At best its some misbegotten fashion statment..at worst is some kind of noodle infatuation you have..
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Pongo, according to Dr. Deal Edell you're absoluttely correct. I'm bitter because the doctor who did mine was nearsighted and had Parkinson's disease and the resultant circumcision wes less than textbook.
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Originally posted by straffo
but if you use word having no equivalent in french like bath or clean there is no way for me to understand your statement :D
gotta love the French! They even make fun of themselves! S! :D
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Kinda gives new meaning to this :
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LOL Straffo :)