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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BotaBing on June 02, 2000, 01:26:00 PM

Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: BotaBing on June 02, 2000, 01:26:00 PM
I am looking for a good movie that centers around, or at least deals with, WWII air combat.

What's the best one - the one with the best and/or most realistic dogfights?

My wife and I recently watched Memphis Belle, which I think is a great movie. We also watched that Mel Gibson WWII Bomber movie hehehe set in the 1990's (you know where he gets frozen and thawed back out and picks up a bomber at an airshow.)

When I was a kid, I used to watch this corny TV Show, I can't even remeber the name. But it was about some WWII pilots, in the pacific theatre if i remember correctly. There was a pilot named Pappy, maybe it was something like the Black Sheep Squadron.

Oh well anyways..whats the best?
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Spoons - SimHQ on June 02, 2000, 02:26:00 PM
The show was "Baa Baa Black Sheep" and it was about Pappy Boyington's USMC fighter squadron in the Pacific (VMF-214 "The Black Sheep").

Memphis Belle is good, as long as you don't take it too seriously.  A mailing list of WWII bomber vets that I'm on periodically rip it apart when someone mentions it.  The sight of all those B-17s in it is worth it alone, though.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Some favorite WWII movies of mine:

-  Twelve O'Clock High
-  Battle of Britain
-  Tora!  Tora!  Tora!
-  633 Squadron

All of these have varying degrees of "cheesiness" to them, but I think you'd like them.

If you want to see one of the best aviation war movies of all time (IMHO), skip forward five years to the Korean War and rent "The Bridges at Toko-Ri."



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John Sponauer
Senior Editor, SimHQ.com
jsponauer@simhq.com
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Fatty on June 02, 2000, 02:30:00 PM
I always liked Midway.  While not focused on air combat, it's a pretty large part of the movie, and every combat scene involves planes (that I can remember offhand).
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: -duma- on June 02, 2000, 02:49:00 PM
Personally I go for BoB because of the comparatively low cheesiness level, the great dogfight scenes and music. Dambusters is probably a close second. 633 Squadron I found fairly cheesy (If it's the one I remember, with that Kuriakin guy out of Man From U.N.C.L.E?)

Das Boot has a Thunderbolt in it once or twice, does that count?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Citabria on June 02, 2000, 03:07:00 PM
tora tora tora on laserdisc in widescreen rocks  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: MrBill on June 02, 2000, 03:19:00 PM
"Piece of cake"
british, May be a made for tv or pbs movie.  I liked it a lot.

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OhNooo
smile awhile
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Luckyone on June 02, 2000, 03:29:00 PM
All of the above are a must! I still think the best and realistic to life is still to be made for all sides of the war. Savein' Pvt Ryan is a greaat film,!... and not the real film (Total sample)of the day the deeds were done! Oh, Time travel I guess, You need any help in building one of those contraptions? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Dingy on June 02, 2000, 03:44:00 PM
Battle Over Britain!  By far.

-Ding
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Voss on June 02, 2000, 04:19:00 PM
Midway works for me. Some cheesiness that only us purists would notice.

There  was another one. "Air Squadron" I think. It was based on a P-51 squadron, but I'm not sure if I got the title right. It highlighted some of the most adventurous sorties of the Mighty Eighth, as if they happened to a single squadron, but it was cool none-the-less. Some of the non-comm interaction and background was humurous as well.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Cheesiness included P-47's as FW 190's, and a P-51 hiding under a B-17 when he was out of ammo (like high speed wasn't an option), but hey!

   (http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)  



[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 06-02-2000).]
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: eskimo on June 02, 2000, 04:57:00 PM
I'll second that;

"Battle Over Britain! By far."

eskimo
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Udie on June 02, 2000, 05:19:00 PM
These are in order of how I like them.......

Battle of Britain- Starring Michael Caine

Piece of Cake-  Saw it on PBS about 4 yrs ago, realy good movie.

Midway- Chuck Heston RULES!!!!!!!!!

The Tuskegee Airmen - staring Lawrence Fishbone-  a damned good movie but the dogfighting scenes are kind of cheesey.

Menphis Belle -  Not historicly accurate, but I think a good generalization of how it was for bomber crews.

 THIS NEXT IS THE BEST AIRWAR MOVIE I HAVE SEEN YET. But it's a ww1 film not ww2

The Blue Max -  Starring George Peppard -  This movie has the BEST dogfighting scenes I remember seeing. It was made in 68 or 69 I think, but it's still my favorite.


Udie

[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 06-02-2000).]
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Westy on June 02, 2000, 06:25:00 PM

 My fave is the documentary "Operation Strangle" featuring colour footage of the 57thFG P-47's in action in Italy, 1944.

 -Westy
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: JimBear on June 02, 2000, 07:08:00 PM
12 O'Clock High
The War Lover
Battle of Britain
Piece of Cake


Not strictly a WW2 aviation movie, but a great one is "The Best Years of Our Lives"
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: hblair on June 02, 2000, 07:14:00 PM
What was that one with John Wayne as a Flying Tiger? Was it flying Leathernecks? It had some decent special effects(for the 1940's anyways  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)), and some real P40's from what I remember.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: SC-GreyBeard on June 02, 2000, 07:16:00 PM
Actually, the Blue Max came out in 1966...

Remember the movie, my date, and the drive in QUITE well...

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Spoons - SimHQ on June 02, 2000, 07:59:00 PM
"Piece of Cake?"  Never heard of it.  Have to grab that one for sure!  Thanks!

633 Squadron WAS cheesy....the airplane models were, well, let's just say it took away the "immersiveness" of the movie.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

I think the most cheesy aviation video prop is of that damn US Navy Panther (or was it a Cougar?) smashing into the flight deck.  I've seen that thing in movies ranging from Midway (um, about ten years too early, boys) to The Hunt for Red October (um, about 30 years too late, boys).  Anyone else know the one I'm talking about?


------------------
John Sponauer
Senior Editor, SimHQ.com
jsponauer@simhq.com
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Andy Bush on June 02, 2000, 09:10:00 PM
If you want realism, then get 'Piece Of Cake', by Derek Robinson. The book, not the BBC series.

Best movie...Twelve O'clock High. It's been used as a leadership course reference for the USAF Academy for many years.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Andy Bush on June 02, 2000, 09:16:00 PM
JimBear

I like your style.

Andy
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Brazos on June 02, 2000, 09:36:00 PM
633 Squadron is mine.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: StSanta on June 03, 2000, 05:03:00 AM
Piece of Cake was great.

And not much of that American "we're heroes and infallible and really great guys in general and we will make it and breed little republican/democrat future heroes with out beautiful wives" stuff.

I like it low and dirty, like in Real Life(tm)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Hollywood, go to hell. Wait, that's my home, go to Washington.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)


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StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Saintaw on June 03, 2000, 05:13:00 AM
Tora, tora tora & Midway for me  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 03, 2000, 10:14:00 AM
BoB
I saw the Tuskesee Airmen a couple of month ago, not bad too but it's more a 'tribute to people personality' rather than an epic furball. I like the realization.
And I'm still surprised that those guys blew up a destroyer with guns.

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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
   (http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/SFRT-AH-LOGO.jpg)    www.sfrt.net (http://www.sfrt.net)

[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-03-2000).]
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Swoop on June 03, 2000, 02:05:00 PM
There was a series......made for and by British TV (cant remember if it was the BBC or an independant).  Cant remember what it was called either.....

But I do rememeber it started with the Battle  of France and one of the pilots was called Flt Lt Catterall.....or Catty to everyone else.  And and and in the final episode he got shot down by a 190 (head on, 4 bullets in the chest) and his last word was "Bugger" before crashing into a tree.

Anyone else rememeber this series?

Swoop
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Voss on June 03, 2000, 02:36:00 PM
From BlockBusters Search Engine:

 
Quote

Fighter Squadron

Actors: Edmond O'Brien, Robert Stack, John Rodney, Tom D'Andrea, Henry Hull
Director: Raoul Walsh
Category: Action : War
Rated:
Running Time: 96 minutes
Year Released: 1948

Excellent Technicolor photography, principally in the aerial scenes, is the main asset of the cliché-ridden Fighter Squadron. Set in the months just prior to D-Day, the plot zeroes in on Marjor Ed Hardin (Edmond O'Brien) leader of a squadron of fearless combat pilots. In keeping with the conventions of the era, the training and flying sequences are counterbalanced with comic byplay involving wheeler-dealer Sergeant Dolan (Tom D'Andrea), whose flippant attitudes towards the opposite sex are a bit hard to take today. Far more effective is the performance of 15-year-old Jack Larson, making his screen debut in the role of a rookie pilot who grows up in a hurry after scoring his first kill (Larson later gained TV immortality as Jimmy Olsen on Superman). Also making his first screen appearance, in a role so small it isn't even billed, is a former truck driver named Rock Hudson. -- Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide


 (http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: -duma- on June 03, 2000, 02:45:00 PM
I'm surprised few people have mentioned the Dambusters, I was fairly impressed by the realisation of the low-level raid and anti-aircraft fire... oh well  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Andy Bush on June 03, 2000, 06:30:00 PM
Swoop

That sounds like the TV version of Piece Of Cake.

In the book, Cattermole (called Moggy) was not such a sympathetic figure. The TV series played loose with the characters in the book...the book was not kind in its portrayal of air combat and its participants in the BOB.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Crapgame on June 05, 2000, 03:01:00 PM
Voss, Fighter Squadron is cheesy but still a kick in the butt...especially for WW2 aviation buffs. The featured FG flies P47s and the Germans are equipped with olive painted, swastika bedecked P51s which are no match for the Jug pilots.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I have a taped copy of the film. Haven't been able to find it on VHS or DVD. Every now and then TNT will play it though and you can tape it.


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2nd Lt. Crapgame
62nd F.S.
56th F.G. "Zemke's Wolfpack"
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Dadman on June 05, 2000, 11:02:00 PM
Gents,

Best realistic stunt flying sequences- Tora Tora Tora

Best Dogfighting- Battle of Britain

Classics- 12 O'clock High, The Dam Busters

Best Documentary- Target For Today- The Might Eigth Over Germany

Worst- The upcoming "epic" Pearl

Dadman
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Vulcan on June 05, 2000, 11:44:00 PM
You're all DWEEBS!

Everyone knows Top Gun was the best ever babey...

Only just beating out The Final Countdown - you know - US supercarrier gets transported back in time to Pearl Harbour - and features that awesomely satisfying sequence where a pair of F-14s do a couple of Zeke dweebs.

-vlkn- in
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: SOB on June 05, 2000, 11:45:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:
tora tora tora on laserdisc in widescreen rocks   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Thanks!  This got me thinking...a quick check over at reel.com and Tora! Tora! Tora! is on the way to me on widescreen DVD  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Also found a boxed set of five U.S. War Department documentaries on DVD about World War II with newsreel and combat footage!

SOB
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: DoctorYO on June 06, 2000, 07:19:00 AM
Yeah in Final Countdown didd't the jet wash of the F14 down one of them zekes or was that a sparrow missle...


????


the other zeke ate some 20mm

DoctorYO
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Pollock on June 06, 2000, 02:38:00 PM
A must purchase for the DVD collector, the World War II collection:
The Longest Day
Tora Tora Tora
Patton
I am hoping the Battle Of Britain is released for the 60th anniversery on dvd.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Pollock on June 06, 2000, 03:38:00 PM
Set your VCRs simheads...

TCM listings are shown in Eastern Time
Our broadcast day runs from 6am to 6am, and thus listings that are for times from 12:00am to 6:00am are displayed with the previous day's date. A listing for Casablanca on 3/5/99 at 2:30am, would play on 3/6/99 at 2:30am. Why? That is the way television broadcasters store listings. Please sign up for the TCM * Update * Newsletter to receive an email announcement of changes to the search feature.
Result of search for "fighter squadron":


8/9/00 3:00 AM - Fighter Squadron ( 1948 ) A dedicated flyer pushes himself and those around him during a perilous World War II campaign. Edmond O’Brien, Robert Stack, Rock Hudson. D: Raoul Walsh. C 95m.


Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Wanker on June 06, 2000, 04:05:00 PM
I'll add four little-known fabulous WW2 films that are not to be missed:

Judgement at Nuremberg: 1961(B&W) Starring Spencer Tracy, Maximillian Schell, Richard Widmark, Burt Lancaster.

Fictional film based on the true life Nuremberg war crimes trials held after WW2. Focus is on Lancaster as an ex-Nazi Judge on trial for war crimes. Available only on VHS at the moment.

The Young Lions: 1959(B&W) Starring Marlon Brando, Maximillian Schell and Montgomery Clift.

Fictional story follows the WW2 experiences of American and German fighting men. Available only on VHS.

The Train 1964(B&W) Starring Burt Lancaster.

Burt Lancaster is a railway conductor trying to prevent a trainload of priceless French art treasures from being sent to Germany during the German retreat from Paris in 1944.
Features a real live Spitfire strafing attack on the train. Very cool! Available on both DVD and VHS (Hurrah!)

The Guns of Navarone 1961(color) Starring Gregory Peck, David Niven and Anthony Quinn.

Story of a small group of commandos out to destroy a pair of huge naval guns on top of a key Greek island. Now available on DVD! Woohoo! (oh yes, and VHS, too)

[This message has been edited by banana (edited 06-06-2000).]
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: iculus on June 06, 2000, 11:22:00 PM
The original 1943 "Memphis Belle", by William Wyler, is interesting...although there's a good bit of propaganda in there.  There is some great footage of real B-17 formations in there!

IC
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 06, 2000, 11:52:00 PM
Yes, i saw it on the History chanel, it looks like a documentary.
Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: -ammo- on June 07, 2000, 10:40:00 AM
Midway still captures my attention after the many times Ive seen it, I saw it on  the day it debut'ed here in the states, it was released with one of those only for theatre gimmicks, can't remember the name of the gimmick, something like "thundersound" or something, it was awesome.  i remeber it vividly.

Hey i am more the documentary type so Midway takes a backseat to VICTORY AT SEA. I ordered it from the History channel store online for...<cough> $100. Worth every penny for me. You get 6 video cassetes containing all 26 series. More combat film than you can stand (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Thats 668 minutes of allied propaganmda accompanied by right there in the cockpit/battlefield combat film.

 (http://www.ropescourse.org/cammo.jpg)

Title: Poll: The Ultimate WWII Air Combat Movie???
Post by: Vermillion on June 07, 2000, 11:50:00 AM
I'm with Udie... BLUE MAX !!

If it has to be WWII I would go with "Midway".

Of course "Patton", "Final Countdown", "Saving Pvt Ryan", are not WWII air combat but are all very good.

I still need to see "Twelve O'Clock High", and I haven't seen "Battle of Britain" since I was much younger.



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"