Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Obear1971 on July 26, 2002, 06:45:57 PM
-
Just got IL2 and WOW
Graphics
Detail
Flight model
Now, i dont want to tread on any toes, HT and the guys do a awsome job, and if i had half their programing and 3D design talent i would be a very happy.
But due to obvious net restrictions an Aces High with IL2 detail is a few yars off yet.
But things i liked about IL2 that i think would be great in Aces High, the little things that look cool are.....
Smoke spluttering out of the cowling when the engines start :)
Thos cloudes, ohh thous cloudes :)
cockpit shell blowing out and the guy standing up to bail out when ejecting
smoke coming off the wheels when touching down or traverling over dusty terrain :)
Some fo the sounds such as
An engine that sounds liek its about to blow a piston when its shot up, that rattling knocking sound when the oil leaks out and engine is hit.
MG sounds wow
The flack blast sound, gee whizzz soudns liek itll rip though the aircraft.
Sorry im just a little in aw of IL2 at the moment :) its a very well made flight sim :)
Ohh cant wait till technolagy allows HT to add this stuff to AH.
Roll on lowest spec PC's are P4 1 gig RAM and Fibre optic internet connection :) and ill go and invest in a Virtual headset too :D
-
Il-2 is the best boxed sim period....and better in all respects than aces high except for the flight models......AH wins hands down. The roll rates in Il-2 are all wrong. The stall model is way to forgiving...etc....oh and overall feel is way mushey. Flight models are like night and day and that's why I play AH 90% of the time.
-
Only a thing I would want from IL2... THE SKY:
its color, the sun, the clouds, the haze, the fog...
...please give us a realist look for our virtual sky :cool:
-
I totally agree their needs to be more eye candy but there are those that are struggling even now and they probably account for a major share of HTC's earnings.
obear you can use sound packs made by customers like mitsu to add a lot more to the game and it means HTC hasnt got to go sample the engine sounds etc which again id assume costs a lot of money and time.They have left AH customisable so you can use whatever sound you like, if you can sample the flak sound you like or find a wav file you can use it.
the engine knocking sound would just need htc to programe in a seperate sound file for a damaged engine Id guess triggered off at the same time as the black smoke is rendered.
the start up smoke and wheel dust would be simple to add i think.
Im all for aircraft remaining in the FM after a bail out and spinning to the ground to explode if only because you could then make it have a slight blast effect and do some damage with your burning plane :p
I have a shiney new radeon 8500 which utilises new shading and texture effects that i was astounded to see working in a new motrbike racing game motogp 3. shine effects,motion blur and bumpmapping to name a few. If AH started to use directX8.1 id be very glad now but how many others have these new cards?
my old geforce 2 mx would have seen no benefit from this addition so how many would truelly want too many new graphic effects?
not that I care about them anymore!! mwahahaha :D
BRING ON DX8.1 SPECIAL EFFECTS!!
-
Finally installed IL-2
Neat intro
Get to Main Menu, game is locked (no mouse).
:rolleyes:
Golly, glad I upgraded to play this killer game ;)
Let me guess, need a patch or two (or three...)
My system
AMD Athlon XP 2000+ (1.667 ghz)
512 mb 2100 DDR ECC RAM
MSI K3T Ultra motherboard
VisionTek GeForce 4 4600
80 GB Maxtor ATA 133 HDD
Windows 2000 Pro
DX 8.1
-
Did you run Il2setup and pick the appropriate video and sound settings for your hardware?
-SW
-
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Did you run Il2setup and pick the appropriate video and sound settings for your hardware?
-SW
Yup, just left it all stock thinking that would suffice. Will tinker with it some more.
-
Alt-Tab out, then back in. Sometimes that happens to me if I click on the desktop or taskbar before IL2 loads ... the software cursor gets "detached." Alt-tabbing in and out refreshes it and fixes.
-
The flight models of IL-2, in my opinion, are just as objective as AH. What kind of sources the developer chooses to use naturally affects the game itself, and the level of objectivity is determined by careful cross examination of existing data and picking out the 'right' from the 'wrong'.
If I remember correctly, AH relies mainly on the western data and charts(escpecially the famous NACA flight data), and uses other sources as back up material for cross examination. In the case of IL-2, Oleg chooses the TsAGI data for main material and other data for back-up.
Some of the conclusions Oleg seems to make, I admit, are quite hard to 'swallow' if you have a certain level of trust for the western data on flight performances of WWII planes. One such example is the examination on the roll rates by Soviet data and concluding Bf109 roll rates as "excellent".
But if you take one step back and stop thinking about which is 'absoultely realistic', it's quite interesting see different views on a historical basis. His observations on the 190s, LaGGs, and P-51s which were separately posted on "Oleg's Ready Room"(a room for open questioning and discussions) at the IL-2 main web page was very informative, and his techinical knowledge as a former engineer of the TsAGI give a lot of weight on his assumptions, too.
For the most part, except perhaps the roll-rates of certain planes and the way engine over-heating is modelled, personally I find the planes that are both in AH and IL-2 perform very simular in flight behavior. Especially after version 1.04 where Oleg accepted the credibility of Luftwaffe data and decided to model LW planes according to their performance charts claimed by Germany. Whether this is the result of 'succumbing to popular demand' or a purely technical decision, or perhaps the result of both factors working, is still yet to be debated since Oleg doesn't say much about his reasons behind FM changes. However, the very fact the planes react in simular ways gives credit that both AH and IL-2 arrive at a certain point where two different developers agree on how a plane should perform. This IMO proves that AH and IL-2 are both top-notch in FM modelling and adjustments.
As an AH player who enjoys the potential of IL-2(however, not the other way around I admit..), some of the planes in IL-2, in my opinion, are modelled a 'little too good' - such as E retention in La-5FNs, general acceleration of late war Yaks, but that is perfectly understandable.
-
I just can't believe the roll rates Kweassa......they can't be right..
-
Neither can I, 28sweep, but it's a "my word(NACA) against his(TsAGI)" situation. I'm not ready to just sign this off "bah, Soviets lied".
Propaganda is something used to cloud the general masses, not exactly the guys who are doing the fighting at hand. I don't think aueronautics engineers would lie to their pilots when you were in a deep shi* situation as the VVS was in before 1943.
Frankly I dunno what I should believe.
ps) Maybe the 109s and 190s operating in the Eastern front were behaving differently compared to the captured 109s and 190s in the West for some reason.. not sure though.
-
IL2 view system sux... hmm wonder if i've said that b4... guess i'll repeat it again..
IL2 View system sux!!
SKurj
-
i get 9-20 FPS right now as it is. if HTC adds all that stuff they should prolly put an option to turn it off.
i would like more realistic skys tho. like in pearl harbor when the p-40's and zekes went up high to fly. like if you get really high the sky should get darker. and what about accumbulus(sp?) clouds?
-
best reason for me to stay with aces high
ITS FREE or at least the hth part is but if i had hte money i would gladly subscribe
just find the sound files from il2 and change there names rescpectivly then trasfer em into aces high
-
It's not that simple vorticon, I think IL-2 has its sound files compressed into some sort of a single file like the way it was in EAW. Gawd I'd love to get my hands on the sound files of IL-2.. and hope it's in *.wav format too.
-
i went under a Pe2 in my 109 and hit it. Most of my horizontal tail and the right side of my horizontal tail were gone. The Pe2 crashed. My 109 was still very much flyable, very little instability,could do hard turns too. If you lose your vertical tail in AH you will most likely crash after you bank your aircraft a little.
What is up with that??!?!
-
if you get the loader for AI planes on IL2 and compare 262s AH's 262 seems extremely underhanded.
-
Originally posted by hazed-
the start up smoke and wheel dust would be simple to add i think.
YES!
Ok, I feel better about the world now.
:cool: :D :p
-
In addition to the roll rates Kweassa....the Lagg-3 in Il-2 accelerates like an La-7 in AH...acceleration is also overmodeled. On the upside though-Il-2 has done a way better job w/ turn coordination. The ball jumps all over the place when u turn...just like in a real air-plane...this is the most overlook aspect of AH flight model. Most folks that covet the AH flt. model don't realize that the turn coordination is WAY TOO EASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I have to agree, Il-2 is the best boxed sim so far.
I rather fly AH though, for I like its FM better. Il-2 has somewhat mushy characteristics with funny roll rates and insane acceleration. Way better than WB or CFS though.
The damage model is also very good, and all them little goodies, smokes and screeches etc.
Flew a few sorties online, and quickly discovered that my AH tactics were fully valid in there, I actually got surrounded with 5 bandits and shook them all off !!! Wonder how "real" that is, but anyway, landing your bullets on an evading target in IL-2 is pretty hard.
IMHO the perfect flight sim would be somewhere betwen IL-2 and AH, where the FM comes mostly from AH with spices from Il-2.
HiTech will get there eventually ;)
-
Hehe.. Angus, that's known as "Sakai-ing your way out". :D IL-2 is an unexpectedly successful boxed flight sim game which drew in a lot of people other than your average 'flight sim enthusiasts", and thus you see a lot more 'rookie' pilots on-line, as well as the bulletin boards :).
People familiar with AH tactics quickly become AT LEAST an average player there. Couple that with the subtle gunnery and its not impossible shaking off loads of bogeys with some flippant maneuvers :). Grit your teeth, scissor and roll, think to your self "that's right punk, waste your ammo", and all the bandits behind you stall and auger one-by-one :D
But IL-2 on-line has its share of some talented pilots, too. :)
-
The coops are by far the most interesting. I do think particular dogfight servers are good- the ones that have planes limited to that year and before, axis vs allies, with somewhat close bases, icons limited to a shorter distance, only padlock, and ground targets to blow up. Those can get pretty fun, usually draws some of the more experienced guys if you are looking for a fight. Coops draw in a lot of experienced players too.
I fly in hyperlobby as Resin, so if you see me, gimme a shout and I'll wing with ya or somethin.
-SW
-
Sweep you been at the alcohol again???? lol :D
I think (no insult intended AH) that IL2's Flight model is far more realistic and feel to it that Aces high, well ok i never flown a Ils 109 or any of the other aircraft in Ils before but it just feels right.
you feel like you goign at speed, i like the way the aircraft pancakes when pulling back on the stick. I liek the way it is slightly more mushy as you say because thast how moveing an aircraft at speed is like, real hard to keep dead straight, it would slew and yaw about.
:)
-
everything accelerates and rolls like a F-16 !
-
IL-2 is a typical Russian product, it is revolutionary but lacks finishing.:D My ideal game would be AH with gunnery model and graphics from IL-2.
-
Hi, guys.
I do not want to start the flamewars, just my 2 cents.
IL2 was DESIGNED to be an offline simulator. Think of its multiplayer as of just a bonus feature. Now let's look at AH's offline (also a bonus feature imo) and IL2's multiplayer. Feel the difference.
More to say, once "those Russians" would be focused on ONLINE simulator - most of the competitors (name them yourself) would lose A LOT of their customers. I have read some posts of ppl close to development of IL2 say that they've recieved some online competitors mails asking them "to wait with MMOG". And now "those Russians" CREATED quite a community of offline just-started-pilots for themselves. I have a friend who hated flightsimulators. Now he has a joystick :D and flying IL2
Now back to gaming.
AH. Guys, it's 2002.5 already and having a "stall zoomer" a bit rediculous. It was an OK-feature in Warbirds version 2.7 but not now with all this gfx power. I do not know about you, AH fanboys, but myself cannot name the travelling in AH as flying. In IL2 it's piece of art when you take off and make your first circle over the airfield. It's a breathtaking experience. Now run an AH and do the same. Feel the difference. And all historical tech sources will not prove to me that "AH flight modelling is right". full stop.
IL2. Full real (no icons, etc) It's just fun to play, that's it. Fun to define the sihoutte of a plane (enemy or friend), fun to play cat-mouse games in clouds, fun to boom-and-zoom. In IL2 even the color of distant tracers fire will tell you a lot. Fly VEF. It's a real war. Never felt anything even close to the experience (I have 2 years of WarBirds, some AH and... WWIIOL)
Resume: I sometimes run my very first simulator - Sopwith (in CGA mode). It's a good game... But it's generations behind. I have to admit that though AH is a good game but it's getting older. It's one IL2 generation behind. It's life.
-
>IL-2 is a typical Russian product, it is revolutionary but lacks
>finishing. My ideal game would be AH with gunnery model and
>graphics from IL-2.
Mora is Kurt Tank. See his genious statement in above post.
-
I do not want to start the flamewars
Me either.
"I do not know about you, AH fanboys, but myself cannot name the travelling in AH as flying."
So I'll politely ask you to f*ck off.
-SW
-
sport aircraft (with fm's similar to fighter ac) don't wobble and bob like they do in IL2.
as for the 'riding on rails' comment many people make.. I believe it's a bit more accurate of real ac.
the coordinated turns are another matter.. they should be more like IL2 imo
just IMO from being in sport planes.
-
** keeping the polite flameless tone **
AKSWulfe, nice post. No I really mean it but unfortunately I have to decline your appeal. Though upon your futher desire you may have some F and S -words in a private message.
And now, sir ... "get the wemon" :D
-
The adverse yaw is not modelled in Ah. I don't mind that much cause I don't have rudder pedals or even a rudder on my joystick, and it would give quite an advantage to people who have. Maybe that's why HTC went easy on that.
-
I have those disabled.
Don't assume just because someone plays a game that they are a fanboy, they prolly just know a good product when they play it.
-SW
-
Why is it everytime people appreciate and respect a certain thing for their own traits, some schmuck has to step in and gloat about it? What started as a pretty mild, logical, and analytical discussion on IL-2 and AH became a prelude to a flame. AH 'fans' mostly respect IL-2 as it is. We don't go around lurking in IL-2 forums and spew the chant "IL-2 sucks in FM. AH is better".
So why DO these tards decide to have a trip here and set the troll alarm off? Geez, how immature can one get?
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
It's not that simple vorticon, I think IL-2 has its sound files compressed into some sort of a single file like the way it was in EAW. Gawd I'd love to get my hands on the sound files of IL-2.. and hope it's in *wav format too.
Hmmm. The sound in IL2 leap way ahead too. There are no traditional wav files that play in a set point of time. The sound compiles real-time from different samples with sound effects blended. So like the real life you can hear differently spinning your head.
-
OHH my i just saw the most beutifull thing i ever seen in any flight sim.
I made a qucik mission for the umptenth time, but this time i set the weather to thundery and the starting alt at 10,000 ft
Game started...
hmm this is nice cloude layer below, weather looks real nasty down there, up here above the cloudes the sun is blinding and the sky a real dark blue, feels like im really at the edge of the stratospheare :)
Then i do a bit fo dog fighting and press the F3 key to get a fly by view..
WOW vapore trails all over the sky!!!!!!! straight lines, sworles, loops loads of them.
I get hit and stated to loose alt, before i hit the ground i looked up from external view.
The dark black thundery weather was all around me lightning flashing and in a gap in the cloudes i could see right up intot he blue sky i was just at, and it was full of vapore trails, it just looked so ............... REAL lol
nice very nice :)
Its ok AH i still play you 80% time, your like a older woman. You may not have the looks as some of these new upstarts, but you sure have life experience and that makes for a whole lotta fun!!!
:)
-
1. Aces High networking, server setup etc.
2. IL2 Graphics, damage, and gunnery model.
3. Flight Physics calculated in realtime as done in X-plane.
:cool:
-
Adjust your joystick, Wolfgang.
-
Originally posted by jbroey3
3. Flight Physics calculated in realtime as done in X-plane.
Ehm... I don't know if you are aware of it but AH's physics IS calculater in realtime much like as in X-Plane. And actually for the needs of Combat Simulator AH's physiscs calculation is MUCH better than the laminar flow ONLY calculation in X-Plane
But I agree that AH's strat and planeset with IL-2 eyecandy and gunnery would be a blockbuster :D But Im affraid that HTC cant do this because it would cause a serious addiction hazzard... ;)
Im not addicted! i can quit AH anytime I want... Really... Ehm... :p :D
-
Czesc' ... jak sze macze'..
I think your confused, The company is "Laminar" research,... and it does simulate other phases of flight, of which include laminar flow type airfoils along with subsonic and supersonic areas of flight.
By the way, are you simply stating what you are without ever having tried x-plane? (just wondering, because it seems to be a trend around here)
Do a stall in x-plane, or perhaps analyse the differences from Aces High and X-plane, with reguard to the flight envelope. Be sure to include for all that is dynamic and fluid across the board for the two sims, you may start to understand why I suggested the use of x-planes flight physics engine.
There are many subtle, as well as drastic differences Flight modeling wise.
:)
-
Sure I have X-Planes Its great 'offline' civil sim. I like it quite a lot and its my 2nd most played civilian flight sim after M$FS 2k2.
Im not saying X sucks I just say it has some issues with its flight modeling that would cause problems when employing a military sim using its X's 'engine'.
I think even HiTech stated in other post that X's and AH's physics engine uses quite similar methods of fetermining the final results...
Lets just say that X emphasis is on navigation and comunication. AH emphasis on combat and that is what matters to me. Never had any model of a plane we have in AH for X-plane so i cant compare... AH's FM suits me for planes it models. X's FM suits me for planes it models.... Im happy ;)
-
Im glad you guys have tried IL2 STURMOVIK :)
I will let Oleg know AH fans are interested also.
There are many plans to make the next game even better.
Some do not know that IL2 was Oleg Maddoxs first flight sim.
I am equally impressed with Aces High with what it has to offer.
Having really good realism in such a variety packed game is quite a task and I think Hi Tech has done quite well.
One should not expect a game such as Aces High to compare flight wise to a 'dedicated to flight' simulation but you do get a somewhat realistic sense that you are flying an aircraft
This game even runs good on a 333mhz, 64 mb ram system with exception to when others use the voice comms.
The FUN FACTOR in Aces High puts the game into its own class, instead of being just a flight simulation.
Aces High has great potential and I think the guys will go a few extra steps in the future.
You must keep in mind that what Aces High has done is something many developers have steered away from , many calling it impossible to be effective.
Aces High is much more demanding in resources so there must be a balance maintained or sacrifices made to allow playability.
With IL2 graphics and flight modeling Aces High would become a game demanding a minimum of 2.0ghz and 512 ram as basic system to start with. Even in IL2 sacrifices were made in order to maintain on line playability, things such as polygon reduction of the models and use of smaller format aircraft skins....
Knowing the difficulty, I think Aces High is put together pretty good but same as any and ALL games there is much room for improvement :)
I like the variety in Aces High
Debbie McDowell
-
One little thingie I found out about Il-2 (the sim).
All planes have better performance in winter maps - cold weather etc.
-
To make an airfoil in X-plane, you define it's lift and drag properties, in a table.
(http://www.iaw.com/~general6/xplane.jpg)
What can make a plane 'feel' different, even in using the same system for lift/drag would be moments of inertia. Different values can totally change how a plane stalls, spins, rolls, bobs and weaves, having nothing to do with anything aerodynamic.
-
Originally posted by MadBirdCZ
Im not saying X sucks I just say it has some issues with its flight modeling that would cause problems when employing a military sim using its X's 'engine'.
Yeah, like doing an Immelmann, for example. X-Plane doesn't handle pointing straight up all that well.
That said, it is an excellent simulator of non-aerobatic flight. X-Plane is a lot of fun.
-
Why does everyone continue insisting that the aircraft in x-plane do not loop, roll, or handle inverted flight?
It did have some of these issues, about 15 patches ago, but To those who are in the knowledge of the where x-plane is "now";
All of these issues have been corrected. :)
Thank you.. that is all.
-
I downlaoded the demo of x plane, very good i thought, though i did select the gliding sceanrio but as it was the demo and only the BA passager jet was avalible to fly, when i hit the run way, this prop plane way trying to tow my jet lol
thing is it DID IT TOO lol
ammitedly the weight of the jet ment that it just hanged there underneath pointing up, but it towed me of the ground still lol
-
hehe ja, obear Thats an issue, (bug) I would say definatly exists hehe.
Its kinda funny actually :D