Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on July 29, 2002, 12:16:07 PM
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Here's a good shot showing how effective this new canopy was. :D
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That is a very very good picture..
wish they had worked on the windscreen at the same time.
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I think it also shows how AH views are overly-lenient.
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Yes I agree. Especially with all that outwards mobility going on these days having a better view for the 109 types would help. Heck having more realistic views nowadays would add to better gameplay I think. You Spitfire, zero, niki guys all agree?
:rolleyes: :eek:
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G14 is it not?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I think it also shows how AH views are overly-lenient.
One of the things we forget in relation to R/L and AH is that in R/L you can move your head to look around obstructions. I don't think the view system is lenient at all, and (cue old fart quote) compared to AW, AH has some very cool view customisation features.
Flying the P38 in AW, I used to get ambushed by people flying co-alt and approaching from 9 O'clock or 3 O'clock because there was a canopy frame that blocked your view in those directions.
Superb Picture btw.
Regards
palef
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
G14 is it not?
could be a G6/AS, G14/AS, G10 or a K4
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Most likely not a G6/AS. Could be any G10, a straight G14 or a G14/AS. Can't be a K4. :)
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palef, obstruction due to inability of depicting stereoscopic vision on a 2D plane is one thing, getting a panoramic 6 view and achieving some odd view angles by head going through the canopy glass is another.
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Hope this is in with the next face-lift.
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The difference in that 'small' correction would change the AH 109 pilot's perspective about this much:
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Hopefully the 109 will get its well deserved facelift.
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the 109 looks fine, hopefully that smurfy guy in the cockpit gets the facelift!
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that pilot is a dwarf.
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Kwesawa: More important would be giving the 109's cockpit proper vertical bar alignment as I advocated originally like two years ago. 109 isn't contentious enough to be given a neuter job as you suggest.
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Why it couldn't be the G6, without /AS?
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Originally posted by Fishu
Why it couldn't be the G6, without /AS?
I'm gonna be a little cryptic but it's due to the canopy. :D Be careful....
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Grunherz,
FAF had G6's with Erla's, and I don't know FAF having /AS versions.
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If I recall correctly only late '43 G6s and on had the Erla haube canopy but I could be mistkaen.
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You got me wrong Nath. The "neuter" job I suggest is something I have advocated as a general case for ALL the fighters in AH. I've made some simular pictures concerning Spitfires and Corsairs on this matter. The view angles from 5oc to 7oc, and high 5oc to high 7oc are too generous in all aircraft, made only possible by the pilot moving his head and torso up to the point where he would be squashing his whole face and chest against the glass in real life. I don't think 6 view was as crappy as depicted in IL-2, but I certainly don't think it is this much lenient as depicted in AH.
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The suggestion to adjust the Erla Haube, is something different from the argument above. Provided AH retains current head movements, it would actually INCREASE the pilot's field of vision than DECREASE it.
Look at the picture: the blue area represents the area visible with current AH view.
(Note: I think this is the first time I've seen an Erla Haube with that "bulge" at the top of the armoured plexiglass which seems to be additional armour plating to protect the pilot's head. All the other pics of the Erla Haube I've seen didn't have that "bulge")
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understood but... I don't use the 6 view you are showing in the screenshots. My view is over right shoulder looking down the right fuselage of the 109.
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Fishu,
FAF had two G-6/AS planes, MT-463 and MT-471.
Kweassa,
That 6-view you illustrated looks awesome!! I wish we get something similar for 109s if and when they get their 3d-model enhancements.
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Kweassa, did you work for Stalin?
After this fake with 6 view of 109 rear view and the fake of pictures in the Spain-Korea soccer match.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/attachment.php?
s=&postid=518595)
I have serious doubts about your youth works.
(http://64.95.118.51/images/newworld/1634/080505295X-resized220.jpg)
...and the AH 109 pilot's (and others) perspective can change a lot when the FM of Spit I, Seafire, Spit V and Spit IX don't be pure fantasy.
My regards mate.
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I looked up into it bit and it seems that late G6's were with Erla, the ones with wooden tail parts - in late 1943
So, it was before G6/AS's arleady
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All Bf109G6/AS had Erla Haube, true. :D
But I dont think this could be a G6AS. :)
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In real life you could not turn your head enough to look at those areas anyways. In your seat that you are sitting at now, turn your head back as far as you can and tell me if you can see those areas that were covered by the armor shown in the pictures above. Guys, in real life nobody wants to die so I doubt Galland and his cowhorts were thinking, "yes we should put armor plates here but this will limit our superior German rear view vision". The placement of that armor didnt do anything that hindered the pilots view in the 109s. You goto remember that in airplanes you are fastened with your seatbelt tight to the back plate or back armor plate so that when you pull those Gs, you dont become a loose change in a laundry machine. These same rules should apply to all airplanes. The view system we have now is too lenient and makes the assumption that you can arch forward to view backwards while you are scissoring and pulling Gs. Not real in my opinion.
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One thing which is not depicted is the rear view afforded by mirrors, usually attached just above the canopy in the front. Many RL WW2 pilots added this onto their a/c on the front lines as they didnt come factory equipped that way. The pilots knew mirror attachments would make the difference in whether they lived or died.
Also, Kweassa, until the advent of the bubble canopy, there weren't any WW2 fighter a/c that offered 360 panoramic views.
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Darkglam: You got something aginst me personally? Or is this something irrelevant to this matter in totality? If you were to criticize my "work" in this sort of matter I recommend you dig up my "retouched" pictures on the Corsairs and Spitfires, not on World Cup soccer(which, by the way, has seen its share of 'whiners').
senna and Don: That is very true. That very sort of leniency in the so-called "Linda Blair-Style" Panoramic 6 view would never be achieved in real life, unless you were sitting in your cockpit backwards... and that is what I am against, too.
Don: The point I was trying to illustrate was, as the AH view system is currently, the Erla Haube is placed incorrectly(a little low) and clogs up some of the view following the rear fuselage line, which, would not be so with the correctly placed Erla Haube+AH 6view. Frankly it's no biggy, as all planes have way more lenient visibility than it was supposed to, but let's call this shot to the faith in "realistic modelling".
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Another pic to demonstrate my point: three pictures comparing AH 7oc view, A 'realistic' 7oc view, and a 'realistic' 7oc view with the Erla Haube adjusted.
IMO judging by the size of the cockpits and proportions of the pilot within it, the 7oc view we have in AH would be closer to a 6view 109 pilot would get when he was straining and really twisting his neck and torso to see behind him. A more conservative view as in the second pic would be what the pilot would get when he was sitting his seat, twisting torso lightly and simply checking 7oc. The third pic is with the adjusted Erla Haube, which, as one may notice, gives a bit more visible area following the rear fuselage line.
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Not K4 because it has the MW50 bump
not a normal G14 cause it has the AS type cowl not the dual bump cowl
Not a G10 AS again because of the cowl
So G6/AS, G14/AS or G10
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maybe luftwaffe pilots did neck yoga to get Xtra good 6 views via superior german flexability - i know Gregory Boyington said that he could tense up his Xtra good neck muscles (whcih he got from wrestling) to avoid high-G blackouts (tense neck muscles kept the blood from draining out)
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Kweassa:
I understand your point. I think this could be easily rectified and still give a nod to the realism gods, by adding the effect that mirrors would give. In another sim I flew, this is the accomodation the developers came up with, and it looked pretty cool, as well as being functional.
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Most experienced fighter pilots flew with their shoulder straps/harnessess loose so they COULD crane their neck and move their upper torso around a little.
The views may be too lenient, but the more recently done ones (where they did a more realistic limit of how far you can move your head) are about what I'd expect.
-SW
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Swulfe, I think you are right. I also noticed the recently released planes have a lot more strict limits to the extent of head movements.