Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pongo on June 02, 2000, 03:58:00 PM
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Which one? You might ask
Back when panzers where first introduced, on my second attempt to F4u them. I was hit by a defending panzer at 2.5 k or so crossing shot while I was traveling at 250 mph +. While such a thing is possible it certainly would be extraordinarily rare. This really concerned me. Wiser heads assured me that it was a fluke but the fact that it was so soon after the introduction of the tanks lead me to believe that it might be fairly common.
Well it has not happened since. I have been around a lot of tanks since and have not seen nor heard of such a shot being repeated. I am sure it has been but it is so rare as to not effect game play.
So to whoever got me that time…
Nice shot.
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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The first time we were playing with tanks, HT nailed me on a full deflection shot from about 1000 yards as I circled his tank in a P-38. I watched the shell arc right into me perfectly. I couldn't believe it happened as that was his first shot he even fired at me and he wasn't really trying to hit me. I spent 20 minutes flying circles around him and he couldn't hit me again from even closer ranges.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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I watched a shell arc in towards me and flew right in front of my canopy... a matter of a few feet away. Was one of the wildest things I've seen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Last night I was experiencing severe lag difficulties. I was attacked by a Spitfire near A9 and managed to put two 75mm hits into him (from my view). He killed me on the third pass, killed my respawn, but when I came up the third time his wing ripped off from previous hits and I finally got the kill? Weird.
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Pongo I can't hit the broad side of a barn in a Panzer and i got a kill against a Typhoon in exactally in the same manner you spoke of .
A complete fluke ,I was laughing so hard after i saw my HE shell take off his tail,i had tears . (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I've shot down 3 planes with the main gun of a tank on one sortie. I think Duma or Badger nailed 5 once. It's not that hard if they are strafing you. Just select AP, wait for them to come inside 500 yds, and blow them away as they pass through your sights.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-02-2000).]
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I actually has shot several planes in the Panzer, the record is 3 in one trip.
But they aint circling me, the ones I shot down was diving on me in a low angle, so I just wait for them to fly right into my crosshair, and poof (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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(http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 06-02-2000).]
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The only way a panzer should ever get an aircraft is if the pilot is foolish enough to come in shallow. If you are above the gun's elevation, no shot is possible for tank. Of course, the reverse is not true. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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You really think ground attack pilots in WW2 took into consideration the maximum elevation of a tank's main gun?
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Originally posted by funked:
You really think ground attack pilots in WW2 took into consideration the maximum elevation of a tank's main gun?
I doubt there was EVER a tank/aircraft kill using the main gun, unless the plane was stationary. I'm sure the panzer was a very fine tank, but gunsites had to be VERY hard to use against planes. I would think impossible. Thank god this is a game. So far my best sortie was 10 scalps in one panzer.
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
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There is nothing more pretty than hitting the tail of a B26 just as he is taking off, whatch him make a loop at 10 ft and then smack into the runway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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"Head-ons are for pilots that don't know what their next move should be"
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Originally posted by funked:
You really think ground attack pilots in WW2 took into consideration the maximum elevation of a tank's main gun?
Where did I ever say that? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
At any rate, you put yourself in front of the business end of a BFG and you will probably die, reality notwithstanding...
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I didn't say you said that, just asking. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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There is noting like shooting at a hanger (2.5K) and as you watch the round close in on the hanger a plane flys into it LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Voss:
I doubt there was EVER a tank/aircraft kill using the main gun, unless the plane was stationary. I'm sure the panzer was a very fine tank, but gunsites had to be VERY hard to use against planes. I would think impossible. Thank god this is a game. So far my best sortie was 10 scalps in one panzer.
Actually, I have documentation (ok, well it's a collection of stories. . . OK OK, it's a collection of AF Humor cartoons, but they are really well researched . . ;-) of a single instance where a straffing P-51 was struck by an 88mm from a self propeled gun. The pilot was (according to his story) was pulled from the wreck by a Danish girl, and hidden. In her fathers WINE CELLAR. He had a hangover for a month when he was finally liberated.
;-)
(It is REALLY suppose to have happend that way. Honest. <Actually, I'll buy the 88mm hit. MAYBE even the danish girl. But a wine cellar all to himself??> )
Ouch out
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/vosssig.jpg)
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Limit the tank turret traverse and gun elevation rates to real life performance and problem will cure itself.
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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) Warbirds
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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You really think ground attack pilots in WW2 took into consideration the maximum elevation of a tank's main gun?
Actually in Bud Anderson's book "To Fly and Fight" he tells one story where they were flying around with 500#ers. They finally spotted a tank in the treeline. After Anderson and his wingman missed on their passes the Panzer lit out across an open field. The third in the group started his run only to see that turrent start to swing around to point right at him. To say the least that huge muzzle pointing at him was enough to throw off his aim by a very large margin. The tank never did fire and managed to escape and the Mustangs didn't want to chance that the next time that Panzer just might pull the trigger (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sharky
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Only about 10% of the pilots attacking tanks dive from above the gun site. I have killed 60% of the planes that attack my tank low on the 1st pass. This surely has taught me to attack tanks from a high angle of attack. It is fun seeing a wing get ripped off when your shell conects w/ it's target. I had a blast last night in a tank attacking A27. Mighty1 and I had both ends of the runway covered by our tanks waiting for planes to spawn infront of us. I felt like this was cheating, but thank god it is only a game!!! We blasted several planes and even a few clever ones that tried escaping our rath from a hanger spawn point. A few planes finally made into the air from hangers points and ended our fun. Thank god for the fun ride down the hill at 27 (NW spawn point from 56). You can get to the middle of A27 in 2 minutes at a speed of 150mph. Not realist but tons of fun.
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I'm willing to buy that tankers would try to hit aircraft (hell, I'd throw anything I had at the aircraft id I were under attack), but actual hits would have been so rare as to be statistical anomalies. We're geting Panzers with multiple main gun kills of aircraft in a mission, I'll bet that never happened in reality. The poor Tiffies would have been wasted if things had worked like this in reality.
BTW, in her final fight, the Yamato was using her main guns, 9 18.1 inchers, against our aircraft. They had loaded them with scrap metal to try for shotgun effects. They never hit an airplane though.
Sisu
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First night of this tour I killed panzers till you could walk to the spawn point on there hulks. I have done that several times...
I am in 100 % aggrement that it would be nearly imposible to kill fast air with the main gun of a panzer. But stupid flying is punished here like it would have been in real life.
Lets just imagine that that MA capability of the panzer represents the escorting Infantry and ack that panzers usually had. Or the trees and church steeples you would hit if you flew that low in most of europe(in your hog C...)
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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During a standard 3-shell exercise in T-72 I would routinely hit a pop-up target withing 5 seconds from it's appearance and twice more as fast as autoloader would cycle - 7-8 seconds, so about 21-24 seconds total for 3 shots (timing measured electronically by a passing shell short-circuiting the wire-screens).
The target would pop-up at about 1200 yards and would be moving toward me at about 15mph,
the tank would be moving forward at about 20mph on relatively flat ground.
Of course the target was a tank - sized siluette, but all three shells would hit within a 2 feet circle. With a correctly sighted gun that circle would be right under the turret.
For exercises I was using a regular HE shell , initial velocity about 1400 meters/sec, not an AP shell with 2100 meters/sec velocity and much flatter trajectory.
The turret traverse speed was very high (about 60 degrees/sec) but that was not an issue because the target would pop-up in the expected direction.
I do not remember the sight magnification, I think it was x8.
I am pretty sure that if I saw an enemy fighter in my sight at a reasonable distance (2-3 miles) travelling roughly towards me, I would have had no problem putting a round into it at 9-600 yards.
We did have exercises shooting at airborne targets but they were not much different than shooting tanks. Of course they were directed against helicopter-shaped targets.
I am pretty sure that with some luck (a gunner looking and turret pointed approximately in the right direction and the cannon loaded) it would be quite possible to hit a closing plane from a WWII tank.
The reason why that was not done has to do with other aspects of warfare then the capabilities of the weapons systems:
Whenever the tank was travelling in column, it was mostly in the dark and/or in the forest roads. The crew's view was severely limited and the guy in the gunner's position usually was sleeping. Whoever was driving concentrated on the road and a guy in the commander cupola watched out with a machinegun. Also, while travelling, the turret is usually locked and the cannon not loaded.
When digged in for defence, the visibility is usually blocked/camouflaged from all sides and often from above and concentrated on the pretty narrow forward field of fire. A plane could fly right over the tank and not see it. A guy who would try to shoot that plane down would be court-marchalled for revealing his tank's position to the enemy.
When attacking in any formation, there is usually so much dust and smoke that you cannot see anything, much less the aircraft. The gunner with limited view of fire and maximum magnification would concentrate on the most likely cites for the ground enemy emplacements. Commander could keep an eye on the sky, but would mostly concentrate on the ground as well.
I am sure that if tanks were forced to operate on a flat dust-free surface we would have seen many more cases of planes shot down by tanks. But that kind of environmemt is very unnatural.
Of course the tanks should not even be there in the first place.
miko--
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Sorry
Think of all the tanks that operated on the plains and deserts of the world for 6 years. and since.
This never happend. Was it allways dusty?
Yes if a plane flew right at a tank and the tank happend to be pointing right at it and the plane never avoided it it could happen.
But it is extremly unlikly and your range scores on the 125 dont change that a bit.
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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM
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I have hit a B26 at 4.6 and 1000k of alt(7 shots to hit) Don't recall the guy's name, but he would confirm that kill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but yes it is basically an impossibility, no point comparing a T72 or M1, whole different beast,
hell most PzIVH's didn't come with turret drive motors, too many shortages holding up production, so the superwhammadyne panzers here are just too good at what they do, they still no match for A/c, but then again, they wouldn't be now, would they?
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"