Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eskimo2 on July 30, 2002, 12:59:05 PM
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OK, clearly this is a poorly disguised bomber whine thread.
But seriously, who out there has given up on trying to bomb stuff with bombers? It sounds as if some of the dedicated bomber pilots have gotten the knack of the new system, but for those of you who only fly buffs on occasion, who else has found that they are no longer worth the time and effort?
For me, the best bomber out there now is a single JU-88, only because it's a great 4,000 pound dive bomber that can actually hit something. A trio of B-17s is now better than ever for fighter trolling, but if I want to clobber a ground target, I'll stick to the C-Hog.
eskimo
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You're on the right track. I've notice that when someone wants to run a base capture mission, there aren't any bombers in the line-up. Its all P-51Ds, Typhoons, P-38s, and Corsairs - heavy fighters that can divebomb and strafe an airfield with a fair amount of accuracy. Sure, it takes more fighters to accomplish what a true bomber can do, but at least there's a better possibility of a successful base capture.
I should know - my country has been on the receiving end of a solid butt-whupping all this week, and with the exception of the lone Lancaster flight, its all jabo, jabo, jabo escorted by N1K2, LA-7 and Spitfire dweebs looking to get some quick vulch kills after the field defenses are down.
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In regards to buffs in missions, I've never had them in my missions except on rare occasions (B17, Lanc) simply because the arena, since around 1.04, has become such a fast changing environment that it renders these slow moving aircraft useless..by the time you get to intended target, the flow of the battle has changed.
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Hmmm... I've seen plenty of bombers hitting bases during strikes and being effective... so practice definately helps. I guess I feel that it should be equally difficult to hop in all planes and be successful... not just fighters.
That said... I think the trend towards base capture is the NOE attack. No matter how high or accurate the buffs are... they give things away. Its extremely difficult to slip them in under radar.
Perhaps no bar-dar for NOE raids has been the death of buffs?
AKDejaVu
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Its a very near thing Eskimo.
I could bomb fine with 1.10, but after the patch I cant bomb at all.
I am currently wasteing time off line trying to figure out in wich way I am wrong.
Right now I would never count on bombers accomplishing anything in the MA.
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i have...
too frustrating..
SKurj
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Somewhere, Lazs is grinning ear to ear...
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The buffs are dead! ......long live the buffs!
I have found that I am buffing about the same. I had good success early on with buffs in 1.10 but I have found it has become difficult and challenging to say the least. I still really like the format and suspect that at least 6 months need to pass before having any real trend to call on.
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not me I am gonna be the best danged bomber pilot in da hole danged are force
but seriously i got a ways to go now i can bomb pretty good below 14k i hit about 6 out of 10 sorties ( i do the same prodcedure everytime but dont hit every time )
now that i have started to get above the wind level its like starting over cant hit nothing as of yet but only flew 3 sorties 1 at 26k and 2 at 19k but i will keep trying till i get it right but thats just me .
BTW i love divebombing the ju88 its my favorite bomber out of all the bombers AH has followed closely by the Ki67
Although i am intregued with the H8K2 "Emily" i saw in Mitsu's post hope that gets modeled in one of these days.
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Deja has this one right on the head. Why bother with a slow, alt. grabbing Buff mission, when a Jabo mission under dar will get the base capture much faster, and more effectively?
When I'm off on my own, though, I can still be found in my 26 formation, lurking around 10k.
BTW, I'm loving the carpet bombing of GVs!
But for base capture, as it stands now, I think the buff is pretty useless.
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I have, I'm doing everything in the P47 lately, or the P-38. If I dont wanna haul eggs, then Im in the 109 G10 or 190 A8.
I tried, I really have. Can't even hit within the borders of the base... Something either is hosed or I just cant sight a thing anymore.
You know its a bad day when my fighter perks almost outnumber my buff ones :D
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if i want to kill stuff like ack. I get personel and strafe it. I dont use bombers.
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Before 1.10:
Salvo bombs, reduce speed, open bomb bay doors, point, click... BOOM target dead every time, no challenge, no skill, nada damn thing.
After 1.10:
Salvo bombs, enter target alt, reduce speed, open bomb bay doors, calibrate gunsight, drop.. the good guys get the same satisfying "target destroyed" messages... the others, well they complain on the UBB.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Before 1.10:
Salvo bombs, reduce speed, open bomb bay doors, point, click... BOOM target dead every time, no challenge, no skill, nada damn thing.
After 1.10:
Salvo bombs, enter target alt, reduce speed, open bomb bay doors, calibrate gunsight, drop.. the good guys get the same satisfying "target destroyed" messages... the others, well they complain on the UBB.
-SW
I see that you have a bomber hit % of 0%.
Please share with the rest of us how you know about what it takes to be "good".
eskimo
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I was poor at buffing before and now I don't even attempt it
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Right.... forgot you gotta bomb targets online because it's so much different than offline.
I guarantee you, you line up for 2 minutes before the target and spend that time calibrating your bombsight, input the right info and MAKE SURE your bomb bay doors are open, and speed is adjusted, before you begin calibrating the bombsight... and you'll get a good drop.
Hell, the real norden needed 10+ minutes for lineup, and you don't even have to figure in wind here!
but of course, it's a challenge... if the past 2 years have taught people who use bombers anything... it's that a challenge just ain't fun apparently.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
you don't even have to figure in wind here!
-SW
I'm a bit confused. Please elaborate on this point. I thought over 14k you had to deal with a 30 Knot easterly wind.
Are you saying the wind does not affect bomb drops?
*Please note, the above is NOT sarcastic. I am asking a serious question here, because I thought you needed to adjust for the wind when bombing over 14K*
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but of course, it's a challenge... if the past 2 years have taught people who use bombers anything... it's that a challenge just ain't fun apparently.
-SW
I think you may have just set off the beepers.
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There is no wind value you have to manually put in, or figure out.
In the real Norden you marked a point on the terrain with a nav device and would figure out how much the bomber is drifting. This would give you a rough figure for you to put into the Norden, thereby figuring bomb drift.
Here, wind is a moot point with this particular calibration algorithm.
-SW
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I have lined up 15 miles out and missed by over a mile at only 8k AGL.
eskimo
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Practice makes perfect. I'm pretty sure the longer you calibrate it (as in terms of time, not how many times you calibrate it), the closer to the target your drop will be.
Are you bombing the ground, or objects? Where's your bombsight? If it's on an object (higher than the ground), this will offset where the bombs will impact.
-SW
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The last time I bombed, I calibrated way early, and had been at cruising speed for 10 minutes. Bombed a 5kish target and missed long by a mile. The frustrating thing is, that there's no way to know what you've done wrong. How can you even learn if you don't know what caused you to miss?
Spend dozens of hours to learn, or just take a Chog and do it right.
Bombing just isn't THAt important to many folks.
eskimo
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So what your saying is that when you calibrate you MUST mark a point that is the same alt as your target?!?!?!?! Why?? I'ts my understanding that the mark is for calibrating speed only, and we set the alt with the clipboard. Please share with us this method of yours that SOUNDS like it works everytime.:eek:
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I've gotten ok at bombing (using mostly Kentucky windage) and can place all three bombers drops within a base....problem I have with bombing now is, either the spread pattern is not enough (yes, I have experimented with delay) or I need to make multiple runs at a base. It's pretty rediculous (and frustrating) when I drop 36 500lb eggs on a base and only get a gun emplacement.
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Are you aiming at an object, or are you aiming at the ground?
-SW
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Another real important thing to consider: After you have everything set and are ready to drop, be danged sure you dont need to slew too far left or right to line up on anything. Five degrees either way and you should be ok but if you find that you really need to slew more than just a tad, your going to miss.
Set up is vital. I almost wish we had a setting like in naval guns where you click on the target and get a compass fix. Would be real nice when your twenty miles out to know the precise heading of the target and have a reading in the bombsight that tell you your own precise heading to match with the target heading.
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The alt of the area you intend to bomb, and the alt of the area you picked off the map has to be the same... otherwise you will get more near misses than hits.
Otherwise you have the bombsight calibrated for an object that may be lower or higher than your intended "area"... which means the bombs will fall shorter or longer.
-SW
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So how does one adjust for the wind layer?? The only thing I have found to work is to make your approach from a due east or due west direction. This sometimes does not put me on the best path to hit multiple targets at a base. Is there a way to fly north south in the wind layer and still get hits??
Avid
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
The alt of the area you intend to bomb, and the alt of the area you picked off the map has to be the same... otherwise you will get more near misses than hits.
Otherwise you have the bombsight calibrated for an object that may be lower or higher than your intended "area"... which means the bombs will fall shorter or longer.
-SW
Then why do we set the Alt by clicking on the clipboard? hmmmm?:confused:
Either the help files are wrong or the calibration system is wrong, which is it?
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Tactical bombers SHOULD be better tools for hitting tactical (i.e. pinpoint targets). What the game needs for buffs is large dispersed targets that are more suitable for buffing than jaboing.
Hooligan
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I've made only two on-line drops of bombs since 1.10. I was waaaaayyyy off, but that's lack of practice. That's beside the point. What I want to know is, has anyone made a concerted effort to kill a zone's strat with heavy bombers? I believe that was part of the point behind the changes to bombers and bombing in 1.10. Buffs should be pretty effective against an area target like a field towns and strat facilities...if the bombardier has got the technique down.
Eskimo, I understand your frustration with the reduced effectiveness of the heavies on base capture, at least when targeting particular targets on particular bases. It's simply not a one-man show like it used to be. It sounds like the majority of bomber pilots still want to have the instantaneous and devastaing effect they use to have on bases. However, as I understand it, a pulk of bombers can still lay waste to a field town in one pass, IF the bombs are dropped within the parimeter of the town.
I'm more curious about the strat effect of heavy bombers. I'm curious if anyone has laid waste to some of the strat targets in a zone to see if base captures go any easier. The idea behind the changes to bombing, according to HiTech, was to make them more effective strategic tools and less effective tactical tools. The latter definitely appears to be true, but what about the former? How many bombers does it take to kill a city or ammo factory? Man for man, is it still easier to kill these strat targets with Jabos? And if you do kill them, do they have any decernable affect on the war in that zone? I don't know...that's why I'm asking.
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I have bombed strat targets and sometimes they even blow up when hit. The maps are a problem, HQs that cant be killed strats that are invulnerable, strats with AAA that shoot friendlies. etc etc etc.
I have found that you must do a few runs in the Training Arena to see where you are going wrong. In TA HiTech provides your with a second site to calibrate your calibration by - a green X that always shows where your bombs will hit. That way you know if you are aiming correctly before you even release eggs. I suggest if anyone is serious aboout learning to bomb go to TA for at least one run and practice calibrating till your bombsite agrees with the green X - until you can do that you are wasting your MA time.
Personally I find the bombers too much of a hassle to fool with. IAfter much practice I can consistently hit inside the box, but the novelty of it has worn off and it takes too long time to do for a small result. (I dispute that anyone can *really* tell what buffs are doing in any case, who can see the craters to know? )
For my money a single heavy 38 is much more productive than a number of B17's. though I still will up one every few days or so.
...perhaps if the fields had MANY MANY more buildings? I mean like a 5 fold increase, something carpet bombing would be useful for? Right now most of the bombs go to waste on open ground. (The towns at airfields are much too simple to kill with fighters, this was true before 1.10 - is there another reason for that?)
A fighter should not be able to do more % damage to a field than a bomber IMHO.
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It takes alot of practice and relearning... and still is not a sure thing. No such thing as a casual bomber pilot anymore.
I have been successful of late using the following:
Must maintain constant speed.
when calibrating... pick a spot far in front of the plane and hold it for a 30 count. longer is definately more accurate. constant speed, 30 count, under wind will result in accuracy close to pre 1.10.
use salvo to get a good footprint, but you don't have to dump your whole payload at once.
single bombers will work under wind/14k layer. Over the 14k/wind layer it is best to use formations for the larger footprint.
under wind u can calibrate early. Over wind I zoom a forward view (gun or cockpit) to get the plane lined up with field, then do the calibration. this insures minimal course changes which hurt when dealing with the wind vector.
One pass is all (for me) so think ahead about your line to target.
a single Ju88 is nice for the level bomb run followed by dive bombing for a second pass. (ju88 divebomb site would be nice )
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Note: this is mostly cut n pasted from another less relavent thread.
The biggest problems facing buffs are bugs, and the lack of viable targets to bomb. Here is why I don't fly a bomber. Current targets aren't worth bombing, due to the huge amount of time it takes to set up a good bombrun. It takes at least 5-10mins of level flight for speed to be stable enough for an accurate drop. Thats long enough for a jabo to get all the way to the target.
First and formost, Strat targets except cities are better suited to precision bombing by jabos than they are carpet bombing.
Bugs affecting buffs,
1. Various formation bugs, bombers taking off backwards, inability for ar234 drones to take off with ratos. drones falling behind and exploding while flying straight and level.
2. Strat bugs,
On the small maps, bombing strat only does a max of 33% damage. Kill all of one countries strat, and theyll only drop to 66%. Throw in the fact that even without this, strat has no effect that you'd notice without watching it, and strat is worthless.
3. Damage bugs.
Sometimes all of the buffs take the same damage. Anyone who's flown a lot of buffs, or killed a lot, knows what I'm talking about. You blast the wing off one, the pilot bails, and the wing vanishes from the drone he is now in. Same thign on buff #3, sending all down at once. Or one of your buffs gets shot down, and you end up flying an apparently undamaged plane that seems to be invisibly leaking oil untill the engine dies.
Just checked, the bf110-G2, including it's cannons, is able to put out almost 10,000lb's worth of damage on pinpoint targets. It can do this far faster, and with far more flexibility than any bomber. How can any bomber POSSIBLY compete?
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first, I'm not saying that the bomb thing is technicly working ok since I haven't done accurate tests with the last patch (did before). but it seems to work usually.
second, the things quoted below are statments being repeated in many buff threads, so I'm not refering to the specific post here, just the general statment.
The frustrating thing is, that there's no way to know what you've done wrong. How can you even learn if you don't know what caused you to miss?
do as several people suggested:
go to the TA or offline with the green dive bomb sight enabled and do your procedure.
if after calibration, the green X is not close to the center - your calibration is no good.
if the green X moves after calibration - your speed is not constant.
(do it over level terrain with the target alt the same as the land/sea under you so both sight would be calibrated for the same alt)
For my money a single heavy 38 is much more productive than a number of B17's.
true. there's a good reason why bombers never made it past WWII. since then it's only fighter-bombers.
still, p-47 is not the best fighter here, nor the 202 or the hurri but people still fly them.
so fly a bomber only if you like to, or any odd reason you might have.
The alt of the area you intend to bomb, and the alt of the area you picked off the map has to be the same... otherwise you will get more near misses than hits.
Otherwise you have the bombsight calibrated for an object that may be lower or higher than your intended "area"... which means the bombs will fall shorter or longer.
if you mean this with respect to the use of the CCIP sight in the TA, you are right.
if you mean in the general case, it's not true. all the calibration process does, is calculate your ground speed. For this you need to know how high are you above the calibration point. it has nothing to do with the target. only after you have your ground speed you need to take into account the alt of the plane and the target.
as for wind -
the calibration measures your ground speed. this means the wind is already taken into account (I dont know how the bomb's drag is modeled so I can't tell how this affects the bombs).
BUT, any slight change in course in a wind layer will result in a much greater error since you'll change your ground speed (besides lossing a few mph to the manuver).
Bozon
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and another thing.
to those who say bomber can't be used to flaten a field and jabo's can:
how many jabos you nead to kill all the FH in a field? including all those that will miss the drop?
now put all of them in lancs/B17 assuming they have minimal skills, and send them to carpet bomb the field.
would be interesting to see the result.
Bozon
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"there's a good reason why bombers never made it past WWII. since then it's only fighter-bombers."
Well I don't know, we Americans do so love our B-52's and use them quite regularly :)
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Originally posted by bozon
and another thing.
to those who say bomber can't be used to flaten a field and jabo's can:
how many jabos you nead to kill all the FH in a field? including all those that will miss the drop?
now put all of them in lancs/B17 assuming they have minimal skills, and send them to carpet bomb the field.
would be interesting to see the result.
Bozon
A single 110 with cannons alone can do a couple of hangars.
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Originally posted by bozon
true. there's a good reason why bombers never made it past WWII. since then it's only fighter-bombers.
what?
The b-1, b-2, and b-52 never made it past ww2?
There are a few reasons why our jabos are so good, and bombers so bad. First, we have late war jabos which could carry significant bombloads. Second, bombers had extremly long range, which no jabo could match. Bombers were used to flatten large areas, where jabos were used for lighter attacks and air support.
We have nothing that a carpetbombing pass will hurt. We have nothing that requires long range flights. We have jabos whos guns alone are able to put out the same damage as several thousand lb's of bombs.
Originally posted by Turbot
A single 110 with cannons alone can do a couple of hangars.
110 with 500kg bombs, and 50kg bombs can put out about 9800lbs worth of damage.
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One of these days I will set my saitek for the bombing and learn it. I bet with the newer arena coming you will see more dedicated bomber pilots. Thats what brought me to AH almost 3 years ago. I wonder if Sunchaser still frequents the boards, there was a die hard goon and bomber pilot for ya! although he refused to fly the lanc...
MAD BOMBERS ARE YOU LISTENING
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this may sound like a moronic idea, but how about a map that would force the use of bombers. Maybe something where all three teams start fairly seperated from each other. I know it would have to be pretty far but its just an idea
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As someone that never flew bombers since about 1.03 (except occasional IL2 as base defense), I still don't fly bombers a lot but probably more this tour than 1.03-1.09. I like the changes a lot (and I still suck at them).
So put me down as one who has started buffing since the changes.
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This tour I have mostly floen fighter sorties *this has nothing to do with the new bomber stuff* I like bombers. It should only take 1 or 2 decent (un molested) sorties to figure the buffs out.
---It really isn't that hard.---
Buffs are fun and have found them to be effective *if* you get 2 or 3 squaddies/friendlies to hit the same target in buffs at the same time. THe days of a single lanc dropping all the FH at a small base are not over... It just takes practise and a bit more time.
Gatso
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To make a long story short. So far it's a waste of time for me, try and hit a hanger miss by half a field.
For me until my ability or the game changes i'm in heavy fighters
on base attack missions.
P.S yes i did practice
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Bugs affecting buffs,
1. Various formation bugs, bombers taking off backwards, inability for ar234 drones to take off with ratos. drones falling behind and exploding while flying straight and level.
The problem with the Ar-234 and RATO units is simple to address. The problem is in the way that drone takeoffs and ordnance use is handled.
1) When you take off with drones, the drones sit stationary off the end of the runway until you're about 1/3 of the way down the runway, then start rolling.
2) Whenever you deploy ordnance, your drones do, too.
What this means is that, when you launch with an Ar-234 formation and immediately hit the RATO switch, the drones will light off their RATOs, too, and use up half their thrust before the drones start moving.
The solution I've found is to immediately jump to external view -- either F3 or F5 -- and watch behind me on the runway for the drones to start moving. Once the drones are rolling, then I hit the RATO switch, and all the drones do as well -- but because they're rolling, the RATO thrust isn't wasted, and they take off normally.
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Tactical bombers SHOULD be better tools for hitting tactical (i.e. pinpoint targets). What the game needs for buffs is large dispersed targets that are more suitable for buffing than jaboing.
Hooligan
Didja's read that.......
Pretty much sums it up.............
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Don't buff that much now and if I do i dive bomb in the ju88 or a20. Cant get teh damn thing to work even after folllowing the directions. I believe either we need bigger strat targets aka cities to hit or have that site ease up some. Keep the bomb drift the way it is but the site has got to go.
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Eskimo,
I used to do bomber hops roughly 70 percent of
the time, but with this new "realistic" (gimme a break) system,
I won't fly 'em at all anymore. If HTC has a way of tracking
the number of buff hops, I'm certain they'll find that the
numbers are considerably lower than in the past. From
what I can see at this point, most of the old hard core
bomber jocks have given up on them as well and are just
doing jabo runs. Most buff runs are done by newbies and/or
dweebs from what I can see, though some seriously
hard core bomber pilots remain.
The problem with the implementation of this new
system is not so much that "pinpoint" targetting
is no longer an option, but the fact that none of the
damage models for buildings and such were changed
to accomodate the new setup.
I may be wrong, but I can't see a fighter hanger
which has got to be chock full of all kinds of flammable
and/or explosive stuff requiring 3000 pounds of
ordnance to destroy it. Simple fix would be a
randomizing factor such that 3K wouldn't be
required, nor would direct hits all the time.
Better yet, let's talk about runways... why are runways
impervious to damage? Hell, what are those 100 pounders
for if not to "crater" runways?
The arena has deterioriated strategically to a point
where bombers are no longer necessary and a total
waste of time. Basically what we're seeing is:
jabo the city, cap the field and run a bus in and grab
a base. It's boring, repetetive, and basically
relegates AH to just a giant dogfighting arena, as
opposed to a flight sim which has a decent
"strat" system behind it.
This thing is WAY too basic and time and attention
needs to be allocated to the infrastructure setup of
the arena and how it might be enhanced in cooperation
with a more challenging and creative strategic model.
This thing's pretty lame as it now stands, with only
fighter sorties affording anyone any real fun.
Regards, Oddball
Cactus Air Force
(Let the flames begin. You guys ain't gonna get a cherry.)
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>>>the good guys get the same satisfying "target destroyed" >>>messages... the others, well they complain on the UBB.
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Hey Wolf, you'd have a lot more credibility in tossin'
those slurs around if you'd flown even ONE bomber hop
this past camp. I didn't bother checkin' beyond this past month,
btw.
I'm probably the world's worst fighter pilot as far as sims
go, but I could bomb with the best of 'em, and when I had the time, was up at about the 300 mark for "ratings".
I don't consider myself a whiner nor a dweeb when it comes to
buffs, and I can't hit squat in 'em now.
Do a few hops in 'em and then have your say about
"compalinin' on the UBB". Otherwise, stick to fighters
and keep your smart assed comments to yourself.
Oddball
Cactus Air Force
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Sure, I've gotten that "object destroyed" message. Even got 11 of them for one bomb run with Lancs on Bish City.
Not that any bomber mission I've flown has done jack all for the Rook war effort.
As it stands now bombers are useless. The only reason to fly bombers is to play around with their bombsight. They are a self contained item as they have no measurable impact on anything else.
It is always better to take a heavy fighter such as a Bf110G-2, F4U-1C, Mosquito Mk VI, P-38L, P-47D-30 or Typhoon Mk Ib than a buff. Anybody who argues otherwise doesn't know squat about what they're talking about. Yes, you can hurt a base a little with a well aimed Fort or Lanc formation, but in the same amount of time you will do far, far more for your country's war effort by flying the Jabo fighter.
The crux of the matter is this:
Bombers can now do the about the same amount of damage with a well aimed strike as a single Jabo, but in five times the time.
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Sorry Karnak. No fighter can approach the damage done by 42,000 lbs of bombs spread from one corner of the field to another, even when someone as bad as me is dropping them.
If I make 14 passes trying to hit a specific target each run, sure, I'm going to be frustrated. I'll also be bored out of my skull. This is why I prefer the new version over the old.
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Fatty,
I drop all my bombs in one pass. I too prefer the new version and think that airfields sould be hard to damage. There needs to be meaningful strat targets and there simply are none.
I don't disagree that a Lanc formation can do more damage. It almost certainly won't though. Furthermore the guy driving the Lancs could have flown four or five 110s, 38s or Mossies to the target in the time it took him to do the Lanc flight. A single Lanc flight will not out damage that many Jabos.
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Originally posted by Shiva
The problem with the Ar-234 and RATO units is simple to address. The problem is in the way that drone takeoffs and ordnance use is handled.
The rato's fire. But the drones gain no thrust from them.
Anyone who's using the line of "Learn to use the bombsight, and stop squeaking" obviously has no clue how to bomb. The bombsight works quite well, it prevents precision bombing. The PROBLEM is that all of our targets are set up so that an old-style bomber couldnt flatten the whole thing in one pass. It worked, forcing buffs to make multiple passes over any target to do significant damage. Now however, it prevents buffs from doing any significant damage.
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The post 1.10 bombing is just excelent, only thing is that we need bigger targets, way bigger targets :)
I dont quit bombing, never will :)
The Wild Vikings
(http://file://217.8.137.250/webserver/twv.gif)
Commanding Officer
Lasse
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I play for rank, I admit it I do, I have always played for rank, in every flight sim and war game I have played, I am not as good at some things as I would like, but nontheless I play for rank. Now having said that I will say this, I used to spend a LOT of time bombing stuff( when i played in the MA). Now I do not, I dive bomb, I take a JU 88 or an A20 and dive bomb, less time better acuracery and more effective.
Ya know the funny thing is this is how it was in real life,dive bombing was more accurate and took less time. Thats why the Germans were nuttz for dive bombers, even the He 177 was able to do shalow angle dive bombing, as well as the AR 234( Hey whears our AR 234 dive bomb sight:) )
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much more enjoyable and satisfying than before. Granted, I can't pinpoint bomb anything without at least 2 bombs from each plane in the formation, but do enjoy the carpet bombing aspect of it.
I had trouble hitting my targets until the last patch, that cured it for me. Like someone pointed out, you don't want to have to move lateraly very much once calibrated. I normaly try to calibrate again if not lined up pretty good to begin with.
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A. Guess what, the targets on the map before 1.10 were better suited to Jabo attacks.
B. Those upset at the new bombsight, try this: Before you calibrate, adjust the throttle downwards. If you go at full throttle, you'll gradually (for buffs, very gradually) accelerate. Put the throttle on a constant speed, calibrate, then adjust the throttle to hold that speed for the drop. If you turn, return to your drop speed immediately.
C. You can still use buffs effectively, even with the annoying bugs (like the time I had 3 lancs. ONe engine got hit on number one. I killed the attacker. On Lanc #1, the engines slowly quit 3 - 4 - 1 - 2. Bailed. On Lanc #2, the engines started to fail, one by one, 3 - 4 - 1 - 2. Lanc #3, the same thing.
Over 12 minutes, my planes dropped out of the sky thanks to one attakcer.)
Here's some ways:
1. Ackstar
2. Saturation Bombing, AH style. No, don't use bomber formations to saturate the target. Use them to saturate the air defenses. Get a buddy and fly six B17s at 500 AGL over the target. get int he nose guns and strafe down all the AAA. Now rev and waste the field at your leisure.
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I'm not a dedicated bomber pilot by any stretch - but i've practised offline, and done a few runs online with a little success.
I think things will settle down soon, the new bombsight is tough, and wind needs to be factored in somehow, but the learning curve is still much less than for ACM in fighters.
The problem, as many have pointed out, is that our current terrains are set up for precision bombing. I'm working on a CT terrain at the moment (don't hold your breath - i'm crap) where there are far more resource buildings, fields have dozens of fuel tanks, several hehicle hangers, etc. The idea here is that it will take area bombing to knock out either strat targets or a field. Targets will be crowded together as in real life, not dotted about. There will also be clumps of low level AA.
Jabo pilots will moan - they'll no longer be able to take out a field, or do meaningful damage to a strat target - but it will be more 'realistic'. Jabos will still be great for taking out pin point targets left over by the bombers, or acks that pop up again, or gv's (particularly if gv's get a little tougher - requiring bombs not 50 cals)
I'm also increasing the distance between fields a little. Jabos are vunerable while heavy, and if the 'low dash' is made longer, people might be more inclined to take a bomber high.
The idea is not to punish Jabos, but to separate the roles of Bomber/Jabo/Interceptor/Escort more, so that each has a place.
Perhaps bomb damage, blast radius, etc. need addressing for this to work? At the moment the likes of a p38 (admittedly late war) with 2 1,000lbers, rockets, cannon and 50cal can probably do as much damge as a fully loaded Lanc. It would also be nice if bombs could crater a runway - the problem with this at the moment is that you would die if you spawned in a crater - with no way of knowing it was there. Perhaps spawn points could be bombable to represent an unusably cratered runway?
just my 2c - I like what AH have done with the bombers and have every faith that any real (not perceived) issues will be ironed out.
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Hey Wolf, you'd have a lot more credibility in tossin'
those slurs around if you'd flown even ONE bomber hop
this past camp. I didn't bother checkin' beyond this past month,
btw.
Right.... you gotta fly online because offline those targets are like, well, hmmm.... no, actually you can practice bombing offline and it'll be the same. BTW, a slur would be something like you are a fluffing dweeb... not what I said.
I'm probably the world's worst fighter pilot as far as sims
go, but I could bomb with the best of 'em, and when I had the time, was up at about the 300 mark for "ratings".
I don't consider myself a whiner nor a dweeb when it comes to
buffs, and I can't hit squat in 'em now.
Congratulations, I flew bombers before... first time up I could hit whatever I wanted to but just salvoing a bomb or 3, reducing throttle and drop on target with pin point accuracy from 30K. Easy mode? Very much so. Now it takes a bit of mastering the technique, and everyone who thought they were good because they could drop anything by a mere point and click, are on the UBB complaining.
Do a few hops in 'em and then have your say about
"compalinin' on the UBB". Otherwise, stick to fighters
and keep your smart assed comments to yourself.
[/QUOTE]
Right, I again refer you to practicing offline if you are having so much trouble online. You might actually learn something.
-SW
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Shiva, a method for getting 234's up that I found (a lot like yours):
Start the buff rolling same as usual, but drop throttle after rolling 50 feet or so & wait for the drones to start rolling. Once they do & start closing behind you, jam throttle back to full. They'll be much closer when you do hit the rato's. And, as should be clearly evident, you don't want to do this with auto-take-off. Stay fairly level & after rato's drop, chop throttle back to 75-80%, give the drones time to get in close behind you before going full & climbing.
Sometime I'll share my method for getting a C47 off a carrier :) . Yet another stupid gamey thing learned offline when I was bored, hehe.
kid
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Originally posted by kidcol
Sometime I'll share my method for getting a C47 off a carrier :) . Yet another stupid gamey thing learned offline when I was bored, hehe.
kid
I am going to guess not unlike my method for refueling/relaunching a P-38 from a carrier (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/mdrbig.gif)
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Im still using bombers although its not as much fun as it was.
more frustration and a distinct feeling of not causing any 'affect' on the game is more common.
I really like the bombing being harder and i am getting much better but its unpredictable.This causes the frustrating problem of feeling cheated when you do the same things over and over but have some wild results.
Also i have a major problem with the ease with which you lose all 3 bombers in attacks which used to just about shoot down your single bomber.Is this a bug or design?
if its a bug fair enough but if its design then I think it really sucks.
Please dont make 'adjustments' to durability just because there are 3 planes instead of one.Otherwise whats the point in having 3 bombers?
Toughen them back up please and make wingmen ai guns less acurate or something to balance it out.I can accept poor shooting from the ai planes but i cant accept this dumb balloon popping durability model.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Congratulations, I flew bombers before... first time up I could hit whatever I wanted to but just salvoing a bomb or 3, reducing throttle and drop on target with pin point accuracy from 30K. Easy mode? Very much so. Now it takes a bit of mastering the technique, and everyone who thought they were good because they could drop anything by a mere point and click, are on the UBB complaining.
have you considered that peoples hardware (ie joysticks) have an adverse affect on their bombing? My joystick (saitek) just doesnt want to track smoothly when im marking but im damned if im going to buy a new stick just because one single element of AH doesnt work too good.
I think youre being a bit ignorent to consider everyone whos having trouble is incapable of grasping the concepts involved in the bombing routine.It is quite simple but for me every now and then i have results that just dont make sense.Im beginning to think it is the tracking which is my problem.
If HTC let me use a mouse to traack it would make my time a lot less frustrating.
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I have a Saitek too, either get stiffer springs or adjust the damping to give a slower response time.
If it is indeed the tracking system, then maybe tacking measures so YOU don't have problems anymore would make more sense than going back to the older version when there's several other people out there who do not have problems.
-SW