Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Sabre on July 31, 2002, 11:34:03 AM
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Due to it's popularity, and to give the BoB scenario guys a nice practice area, I'll be configuring the CT with the BoB set up. C-47's and LVT's will be available, in case some enterprising folks want to segway into Operation Sea Lion ;).
Planeset:
Great Britain - Spit-I, Hurri-I, Boston III, TBM, C-47, PT boats, and all GV's except Ostwind and Panzer
Germany - Bf-109E, Me110C-4, Stuka (SBD), Ju-88, C-47, PT boats, and all GV's except Ostwind and Panzer.
Note: The inclusion of the TBM for the Brits is to insure they have a credible anti-shipping capability. The Boston III will give RAF Bomber Command and Coastal Command something to play with. The inclusion of the SBD for the Germans is to give them something that remotely resembles the functionality of the Ju-87 Stuka (sorry, no dive siren). Gameplay considerations to be sure, but hopefully not too glaring to hurt overall immersion.
Sabre
CT Staff
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How would the allies feel about the SBD or VAL (Good stand-in for the Swordfish?) instead of the TBM? Last time we did the BoB I found that the TBM was tough customer as compared to the other aircraft of the plane set. Its speed (but not climb) is comparable to the Hurricane I and its gun package is second only to the ME110.
No big deal to me either way, although I must admit I would be tempted to switch to Allies and fly the TBM as an E-fighter to see how well I could do.
(Edit to add that last BoB I flew the Ju88 as a fighter for one sortie. I landed with two Hurricanes and a Spitfire. 1 Hurri and the Spit got by just sniping with the forward mg and then jumping to tail, the other Hurri I think I lucked out and wounded the pilot. I doubt I could ever repeat this performance.)
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ahhh back to flying bombers for a week good deal:cool:
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I agree that the TBM outclasses too many fighters. How about the Allies get the SBD instead, and the Axis gets the Val (fixed gear, looks more like a Stuka, early war, slow, etc.
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I agree that the TBM outclasses too many fighters. How about the Allies get the SBD instead, and the Axis gets the Val (fixed gear, looks more like a Stuka, early war, slow, etc.
eskimo
I'll give it some thought between now and Friday...see which way the masses are swaying.
Sabre
CT Staff
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yeehaw! time to avoid the endless 110c HO's! ;)
:D My 2nd favorite setup this is only due to the lack of the He111, Do17, Ju87B (right? D was later? I don't know my LW birds very well) and the Blenheims. If we had a full BoB planeset (with Ju88s limited) I'd be a super happy camper in this one. :) (early Pac is only missing Kate/Devastator for near completion. Tho Oscar and Betty would be nice too.)
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Looks like a winner Sabre, hey I'll see you at the CON! :)
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I think for dogfighting I'd definitely take the SBD.. and doesn't it also have 2 forward firing .50's? (same as tbm)
I suppose if speed is the issue..
SKurj
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I found the TBM to be fairly gameable in last BoB, Its two 50's were a good fighter package along with rkts and eggs. Really it too ahead of its time. In BoB.
Furzy
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Sabre,
I'd say you have come up with an excellent setup if the only thing we can find to harp about is which *bomber* is the better dogfighter.
Good job, and thanks for your efforts.
(BTW, for dogfighting down in the weeds, I'll take the Val over either the TBD or the SBD.)
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Sounds good Sabre,
If the TBM,SBD,Val issue comes down to votes I go with eskimo2's suggestion.
Which BOB map will be used? will it be the one which is going to be used in the BOB scenario?
TTFN
snafu
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As far as dogfighting bombers go, the Boston makes a pretty rough customer too. I took one up last night since the fighter that was available from the field nearest the fight was the Hurricane IId. The Hurri is just too slow to deal with the 109s, 190s, and 262s that were plagueing the field. I figured that if I took up a Boston, it would be as fast or faster than a Hurri, and the 109s would come down and fight, sensing an easy kill. It worked as planned, I responded to a call from Ammo for help with 3 fighters that were on him. One other Allied fighter went in as well. Ammo was either shot down or left, leaving me and the other Allied fighter fighting the 3 German fighters. After a short but viscious dogfight low over the water, I shot up one 109 with my nose guns, and he promptly crashed nearby giving me a kill. A second later another 109 raked my Boston, knocking off an elevator and a flap. I continued to fight, soon getting on one of the 109s 6. I shot him up pretty badly, and then, out of ammo, proceeded for home. The smoking 109 that I shot up must have had engine seizure and crash, becuase I got the kill a minute later, just before I landed safely. Two 109 kills with the nose guns, and a safe return home aint bad for a 2 engined bomber that only has .303 guns.
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Set up for 2 Aug: Battle of Britain
yessssssss:D
Stuka (SBD)
yes!!!
of the Ju-87 Stuka (sorry, no dive siren).
:( :(
TY Sabre
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Ju-87 Stuka (sorry, no dive siren).
That's ok, I'l just type "Tweeeeeeeeeeeee" on channel 1 when I go into a dive.
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The D3A is a far closer match for the Stuka in performance and durability (and forward firepower) than is the SBD.
I think its time for the Japanese to do a little reverse lend/leasing for the Bf110s and Ju88s the Germans gave them.
D3A should be used for the Stuka.
SBD had armor, not the Stuka (Ju87B-1)
SBD can do 280mph, Stuka could do 242mph.
SBD has two 50 cals forward. Stuka had two 7.92mms
D3A has no armor
D3A can do 242mph
D3A has one 7.7mm forward
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Durabilty like Val????
Everything I have ever heard about the stuka was of its good toughness. Maybe not IL2 tough but moreso than early way flamebox japanese planes. Plus Stukas can and did carry much more bomb weight than the Val wich is the big difference IMHO.
And 28mph speed is of relatively little importance for such slow planes anyway, the bomb capacity is more important.
Or HTC can just make JU87 over the weekend. :D
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Okay I may be wrong but after the opening phase of Battle of Britain, where the Stukas got their butts handed to them by the RAF, did the Luftwaffe stop using them against British targets, and rely only on the D0's HE's, and and JU88s?
If this is the case why even bother with a replacement? Did the Swordfish do anything during the Battle of Britain? I know they helped sink the Bismark, and were there for the channel dash, and they hurt the Italian fleet at Taranto.......... But we seem to be wringing our hands over the importance of a couple of minor players for BOB.
Leave the SBD, TBF, and D3a out. The Boston will cover the RAF bombing needs quite well for this scenario.................... The British were on the defensive at this stage of the war, and the Germans didnt have their ducks lined up to cross the channel anyway.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The D3A is a far closer match for the Stuka in performance and durability (and forward firepower) than is the SBD.
I think its time for the Japanese to do a little reverse lend/leasing for the Bf110s and Ju88s the Germans gave them.
D3A should be used for the Stuka.
SBD had armor, not the Stuka (Ju87B-1)
SBD can do 280mph, Stuka could do 242mph.
SBD has two 50 cals forward. Stuka had two 7.92mms
D3A has no armor
D3A can do 242mph
D3A has one 7.7mm forward
The Val has twin cowl mounted 7.7 mm forward firing machine guns.
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I agree with Lowe, leave the SBD, TBF and D3A out. Just stick with the planes we have that were there. With the numbers that are usually in the CT I think it's better off representing a microcosm of the Battle instead of trying to recreate the whole thing. A JG and a KG against a couple intercepting RAF squadrons.
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I tend to agree with that. I never was a big fan of substitutions anyhow. Just go with the Spit, Hurri, Boston combo for Brits, and !109, 110, Ju88 for the Germans.
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I am fine with leaving out the substitutions as well. Although I'd like to see how the Val and SBD do against each other, we can wait and see on the next early pacific set-up. (It would be cool to have a Jap CV with only Vals, and a US CV with only SBDs so that we can see how they do duking it out with each other...
eskimo
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I'd like a Val as a substitute for the Ju87, and as karnak said it was much closer then the SBD in performance I think, + an american plane just wouldnt seem right for the germans, at least val is axis :) .
I don't know how much the Fairey Swordfish played in the battle of briton, but I know the Gloster Gladiator played a pretty good size role, infact it was a Squadron of Gloster Gladiators that were the first to intercept german bombing raids in the BOB, unfortunitly there are no planes that could substitute for it :( , other then the val, but the Gladiator could out preform the val easily.
However, I can't wait to play it nomatter what the planeset is, long as I atleast have a hurri :)
PS. this question has already been asked, but what map are we playing on? I'd love it if you hosted the BoB scenario map!
...Can't wait!!:D
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The Europe terrain is being updated by Sundog for the BoB scenario. If Sabre uses that terrain, it will be different than what you'll get in the BoB. Plus, A53 in England has a problem with spawn points in the Europe terrain.
couple that with the fact that most of you always ask for 128x128 maps with closer fields in the CT, really means you'd enjoy the BoB terrain and not the 512x512 Europe terrain, IMO.
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What happened to the one with the radar towers?
I am all for the sbd and val no tbm.
just dont put fifty fricking fleets out in the channel. Cant you just have a fleet of one destroyer for radar? If there is one thing that really pisses me off about bob its the flak from parked fleets.