Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on July 14, 2000, 02:09:00 PM
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Well heres the planes and vehicles i think we need (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Vehicles
--------
T-34 (panzer v panzer getting old)
Airplanes
---------
Late model Stuka with 37mm option(krauts need a tank buster)
Il-2 (so does the VVS)
Tempest(so do the Brits, the tiffie is kinda, well, ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
Give the 190 a F option similar to the new p47-d25 (should just be a paint job and adding wing racks to a a8, remove cowl guns, minimal changes-- easy)
Add some of the cool LW a2a and a2g weapons (all those funky rockets etcera)
Give the Ami's the hellcat (round out the pac planeset a bit for hellcat+corsair v zeke and nik fights)
Give the LW the dora, and the brits the spit XIV
Give the LW a ju-88.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
Give the LW the dora, and the brits the spit XIV
And change the name of the game to "spitfires High" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
For the last time...Spit XIV IS TOO GOOD for the Main Arena! if you want to fly in an arena that only flies spitfires then just dont perk it...
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P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61 P61
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cancel Ju88 a-4, IT'S A MIDDLE '41 BOMBER!!!
and, hell of all engine probs, BRING IN THE
He177.
..but i know, it's too late. again LW gets
an early, scenario only use, plane.
(like F4 and G6).
THINK for the future, think of He177's attacking allied (that's the reson?) ships
with the FRITZ gliding bomb!
HT crew is doing a fine job, but sometimes i
think they do decissions too fast.
(same would be for me110 instead of 410)
long time ahead, HT said, that he like's to
see NEW, never modelled planes in AH.
HABICHT
XO JG54"Gruenherz"
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i wouldn't say the g6 is a scenario only plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I just started flying it 2 days ago and am doing well in it .. check out my stats (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But ok the ju-88 wouldnt be the best bomber, but then again I do not know too much about LW bombers so i am not the best person to advise on which one would be best. That arado jet bomber i read about would be coooool as a perk plane tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think RAM has a Spit XIV alert on his computer, so that at anytime, anywhere in the world a Spit XIV is mentioned it violently alerts RAM...(probably has the Hispano sound effects) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In all seriousness, I like Zig's list.
But more to the point, if a plane is available to someone in the Main Arena, but not available to me or others, than I think that is a bad thing. No matter how well planned the perk system, the simple fact remains that my $29.95 is as good as everyone else's (even if my pilot skills are not) and should allow me to fly the planeset that is available to anyone else as well. This applies to the MA only.
Obviously an arena based on an HA or WB's new WWII arena is different.
Cobra
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cobra rofol that was funny (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I can just picture it.
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anyways, im figuring the spit XIv would be like the g10- climbs like a rocket and is fast as hell, but is hard to control. If this is the case, i think its perfectly fair, as i definitely prefer less speed and climb for better handling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (see my g6 stats and my g10 stats haha who says latewar planes are better)
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Originally posted by RAM:
For the last time...Spit XIV IS TOO GOOD for the Main Arena! if you want to fly in an arena that only flies spitfires then just dont perk it...
Where'd you get a Spit XIV to fly in here? :::dang musta missed another patch:: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
but is hard to control. If this is the case
I thought it too until I read that RAF document of the test of SpitXIV against Fw190 , Me109 and SpitIX. It is clearly stated that Spitfire XIV has as nice handling as a Spitfire IX has.
I wont fall in the temptation to answer the "funny" answers, just go and reat this thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000635.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000635.html)
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
anyways, im figuring the spit XIv would be like the g10- climbs like a rocket and is fast as hell, but is hard to control. If this is the case, i think its perfectly fair, as i definitely prefer less speed and climb for better handling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (see my g6 stats and my g10 stats haha who says latewar planes are better)
But all the write ups that I have seen indicate a spit IX that out climbs a G10 and out runs a P-51..Handling, dive and fire power identical to a Spit IX. No vices.
I aggree with you if your assumptions are correct, I dissagree if my reading is correct.
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OK you guys obviously know more history about the airplanes then I do.
I have been figuring all along:
109f4, spit V fair match
109g2, spitIX fair match
109g10, well has no british match
so i was figuring its fair to addin the XIV, i mean the g10 is like 50 MPH faster than the spit and climbs like a rocket. A careful g10 driver will never get killed by a IX driver.
The problem with the g10 is that the engine started getting to big for the airfram. While it had great climb and acceleration, was tricky to control due to torque and high wing loading.
Why doesn't the spit XIV have the same problem? It too is a early 1930s airframe crammed with a mid 40s engine. It seems like it too should be similar to the 109g10 as all the previous versions were, the spit will climb slower,be slower, but be somewhat better in turning.
I know that flying the g10 and the g6 are completely different things. The g10 trying to ride on a cheetah as compared to a horse as the g6. The cheetah may be faster, but as a squeak to keep under control. If the spitfire performs the same way, i say let it in. If it doesn't perform the same way, well why not? Give me the reasons why it doesnt.
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Originally posted by HABICHT:
cancel Ju88 a-4, IT'S A MIDDLE '41 BOMBER!!!
and, hell of all engine probs, BRING IN THE
He177.
..but i know, it's too late. again LW gets
an early, scenario only use, plane.
(like F4 and G6).
THINK for the future, think of He177's attacking allied (that's the reson?) ships
with the FRITZ gliding bomb!
HT crew is doing a fine job, but sometimes i
think they do decissions too fast.
(same would be for me110 instead of 410)
long time ahead, HT said, that he like's to
see NEW, never modelled planes in AH.
HABICHT
XO JG54"Gruenherz"
They are already doing Ju-88 A-4
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
anyways, im figuring the spit XIv would be like the g10- climbs like a rocket and is fast as hell, but is hard to control. If this is the case, i think its perfectly fair, as i definitely prefer less speed and climb for better handling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (see my g6 stats and my g10 stats haha who says latewar planes are better)
That thing would probably also turn all the planes and then you would have again skies full of spitfries like they used to be.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
OK you guys obviously know more history about the airplanes then I do.
I have been figuring all along:
109f4, spit V fair match
109g2, spitIX fair match
109g10, well has no british match
so i was figuring its fair to addin the XIV, i mean the g10 is like 50 MPH faster than the spit and climbs like a rocket. A careful g10 driver will never get killed by a IX driver.
The problem with the g10 is that the engine started getting to big for the airfram. While it had great climb and acceleration, was tricky to control due to torque and high wing loading.
Why doesn't the spit XIV have the same problem? It too is a early 1930s airframe crammed with a mid 40s engine. It seems like it too should be similar to the 109g10 as all the previous versions were, the spit will climb slower,be slower, but be somewhat better in turning.
I know that flying the g10 and the g6 are completely different things. The g10 trying to ride on a cheetah as compared to a horse as the g6. The cheetah may be faster, but as a squeak to keep under control. If the spitfire performs the same way, i say let it in. If it doesn't perform the same way, well why not? Give me the reasons why it doesnt.
Your reasoning makes sence. But accouts of the Spit XIVs performance do not carry it out. The Griffon engine was quite a bit different then the Merlin, much more differenc then a db605a and a db605d where. But the brits took 2.5 years to bring the Griffon spit to full production. The Spit VII has a griffon and maybe it has the handleing problems...I dont know but flight evaluations of the Spit XIV indicate a Late Spit IX with 35 more mph and tones more climb. On the deck it could go 400 mph with 150 octane fuel.
I guess wb just dummied it up so they could have it without forcing most other planes out of the arena. I think that is the worst solution. It is a lovely plane and I hope they can bring it in. But if its like I read it will be, I know what I will be flying.
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(http://www.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/uboat.jpg)
The VIIC was the workhorse of the German U-boat force in World War Two from 1941 onwards and boats of this type were being built throughout the war. The first VIIC boat being commissioned was the U-69 in 1940. The VIIC was an effective fighting machine and was seen in almost all areas where the U-boat force operated although their range was not as great as the one of the larger IX types.
The VIIC came into service as the "Happy Days" were almost over and it was this boat that faced the final defeat to the Allied anti-submarine campaign in late 1943 and 1944.
Displacement:
(tons) 769 (sf)
871 (sm)
1070 (total)
Length: (m) 67,10 oa
50,50 ph
Beam: (m) 6,20 oa
4,70 ph
Draught: 4,74 m
Height: 9,60 m
Power: (hp) 3200 (sf)
750 (sm)Speed:
(knots) 17,7 (sf)
7,6 (sm)
Range:
(miles / knots) 8500/10 (sf)
80/4 (sm)
Torpedoes: 14
4/1 (bow / stern tubes)
Mines: 26 TMA
Deck gun: 88/45
220 rounds
Crew: 44-52 men
Max depth: ca. 220 m
(722 feet)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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ONCE AGAIN...
(http://www.mindspring.com/~nathownsj00/ww2/spitXIVvs109190.gif)
------------------
Stab/Jagdgeschwader 54
'Grunherz'
(http://www.mindspring.com/~nathownsj00/54.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-14-2000).]
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Ki-61 and FM-2 would be nice additions IMO. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Jihad
48th FG "Checkertails" (http://members.tripod.com/checkertail/)
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RAM
No humour was intended more of gentle sarcasm. Yes the Spit XIV will be an awesome foe. All the facts presented and in evidence show that it will be a match against any currently implemented A/C. Bring it on. It will be a challenge that is welcomed. Been beaten my many many pilots in here, I dont think I've been out flown by an A/C yet. As for the game being taken over by whatever model of plane decreed "uber". Dont believe it, and have more faith in the people that I fly with and against than it fall into that mindset
JimBear
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Nice selection Zig but would rather see a HE177 greater payload and radio controled bombs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and bring on that spitXIV its not like anyone can select auto kill, sit back and watch it go on the hunt somebody has to move that stick.
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"Will the REAL P51B ever get modeled, ever get modeled, ever get modeled....
... we're gonna have a problem here.."
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
I know that flying the g10 and the g6 are completely different things. The g10 trying to ride on a cheetah as compared to a horse as the g6. The cheetah may be faster, but as a squeak to keep under control.
That gets my vote as wierdest analogy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
'Phew, the engine in this G10 is pretty amazing'
'Yeah? How many horses?'
'HORSES? What do you think this is, a G6?!'
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And cheetahs can outmaneuver horses any day. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/tempstruff/Duma.gif)
Duma
The Red Dragons
'Fierce And Bold
With Courage And Honour'
http://www.reddragons.de (http://www.reddragons.de)
[This message has been edited by -duma- (edited 07-14-2000).]
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Ooh, look at the pretty evaluation...
Spitfire Mk XIV vs 1942 planes:
Spitfire Mk IX - more endurance, equal range.
Fw 190A-4? - rollrate is much better, has better initial dive.
Me 109G-6 - Only 10mph slower at 16k! Equal in climbrate at 16k! Pulls away in initial part of dive, until 380mph!
Spitfire Mk XIV vs real 1944/45 competitors:
Fw 190D-9 - MW 50 equipped, is faster at S/L up to 18k. Without, about equal up to 20k. Most probably would out-dive the Mk XIV. Better high-speed controls.
Me 109G-10(K-4) - Faster from S/L up to 20k. Climbrate is about equal, possibly superior at some altitudes, up to 20k. Probably has better dive.
Brief Tactical Comparison with Tempest Mk V
Range and Endurance- Rough comparisons have been made at the maximum cruising conditions of both aircraft. It is interesting that the indicated airspeed of each is about 280 mph and the range is about identical, both with full fuel load (including long-range tanks) and without (also no nose-tank-Tempest).
Maximum Speed- From 0-10,000 feet the Tempest V is 20 mph faster than the Spitfire XIV. There is then little to choose until 22,000 feet, when the Spitfire XIV becomes 30-40 mph faster, the Tempest's operational ceiling being about 30,000 feet as opposed to the Spitfire XIV's 40,000 feet.
Maximum Climb- The Tempest is not in the same class as the Spitfire XIV. The Tempest V, however, has a considerably better zoom climb, holding a higher speed thoughout the manoeuvre. If the climb is prolonged until climbing speed is reached then, of course, the Spitfire XIV will begin to catch up and pull ahead.
Dive- The Tempest V gains on the Spitfire XIV.
Turning Circle- The Spitfire XIV easily out-turns the Tempest.
Rate of Roll- The Spitfire XIV rolls faster below 300 mph, but definitely more slowly at speeds greater than 350 mph.
Conclusions- The tactical attributes of the two aircraft being completely different, they require a separate handling techique in combat. For this reason Typhoon squadrons should convert to Tempests, and Spitfire squadrons to Spitfire XIVs and definitely never vice-versa, or each aircraft's particular advantages would never be appreciated. Regarding performance, if correctly handled the Tempest is the better below about 20,000 feet and the Spitfire XIV the better above that height.
Tactical Comparison with Mustang Mk III(P-51B)
Radius of Action- Without a long range tank, the Spitfire XIV has no endurance. With a 90 gallon long-range tank it has about half the range of the Mustang III fitted with 2 x 62 1/2 gallon long range tanks.
Maximum Speed- The maximum speed are practically identical.
Maximum Climb- The Spitfire XIV is very much better.
Dive- As for the Spitfire IX. The Mustang pulls away, but less markedly.
Turning Circle- The Spitfire is better.
Rate of Roll- The advantage tends to be with the Spitfire XIV.
Conclusion- With the exception of endurance no conclusions can be drawn, as these two aircraft should never be enemies. The choice is a matter of taste.
Don't you just love these wartime comparisons, they are so accurate and well defined. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 07-14-2000).]
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LOL..
Juzz.. reading that pony vs spit comparison I'm remminded of Mel Brooks..
"We gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs gentlemen!!"
I wonder what the authors agenda really was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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I didn't get a harumph out of that guy.....
Thats Hedley Lamar....
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Yes, I thought for making scenario event.
Vehicles
--------
M10 (or other Allied tank)
Ostwind (is planned already?)
German truck anything (for carry troops)
Bombers
---------
Ju87G (with 37mm cannon)
Il-2 (need tank buster of Allied also)
Do217 (need German bomber also)
G4M2 (need Japanese bomber also)
B25J (for South Pacific operation)
Fighters
---------
Ki61 (with MG151/20 or Ho-5 20mm cannon model)
P38J (for South Pacific operation)
P40E (for South Pacific operation)
F6F (for South Pacific operation)
Thank you.
------------------
Batmann <CO/JG68> from Tokyo, Japan
JG68 Briefing Room (http://www.ceres.dti.ne.jp/~batman/jg68/)
"Anybody who is Japanese and likes German aircrafts
can't but get to like Ki-61."
[This message has been edited by Batmann (edited 07-15-2000).]
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Juzz it's time to repost those "facts" from that "objective source" you found a while back. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Some good links
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/ (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/)
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/)
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it's funny how you compare 109G10 vs spit14.
maybe g10 is faster (i don't believe) what
could it do with his speed? for a kill you have to slow down in G10 (horrible high speed
handling). g10 has no chnace against a good
spit9 pilot....so you compare it with spit14, lol!
AGAIN, WHY did allied get the LATE WAR Lancaster (cal.5 turrents, no .303 i heard)
and WE Luftwobbles GET and 1941!!!!!! buff
with no stratecical use in MAIN?????????????
GIVE ALLIED THE BLENHEIM PLS!!!
disappoited
HABICHT out
XO JG54"Gruenherz"
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Dora and Spit XIV.
Make the game interesting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As for buffs, seems like a same trend: newest US planes and early/mid war LW (how about making a sim with P 39 on US side and Dora for LW ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
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Originally posted by Hristo:
Dora and Spit XIV.
Make the game interesting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If you bring Spit XIV you'll make this an one plane simulator.
Uh yeah that sounds interesting.
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"Excuse me while I whip this out."
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Spit XIV phobia ?
Even best pilot in best plane can be gangbanged, you know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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this
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/0621.gif)
Top speed 352MPH IAS at 15,000 feet.
Optimum cruise at 10,000 Ft was 273.
(Actually would like this on a "C" with a 52 Gal U.S. External tank.)
Climbs at about 2300 feet per minute and U.S. WWII FIghter pilots said it was by far the best turning of all U.S. WWII Aircraft. So you get the drift, don't turn fight in U.S. Planes.
U.S. Fighter pilots rated is controls and instrumtation better than the P-51 and said only the P-47 had a better cockpit layout.
------------------
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/dtahcard.gif)
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!
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Originally posted by RAM:
If you bring Spit XIV you'll make this an one plane simulator.
Uh yeah that sounds interesting.
I heard this before, for example when a8, typhy, yak were added to the game. How much game will change, no one will fly below 25k, all will fly them, deadly punch, fast, bluh bluh bluh bluh, and then bluh bluh bluh bluh. Do you see many of typhies or yaks or a8 around?
I heard that XIV will be a perk plane, that is fine with me. But then a5, g10 shall be a perk planes too, at least when in compare with what RAF has now.
Fariz
XII Legion.
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banana pull your pants up for christ sake.
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Mongo like Spit XIV.....
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Top speeds...
Sea level.
Tempest Mk V: 392mph
F8F-1: 382mph
F4U-4: 375mph
Me 109G-10: 370mph
P-51D: 368mph
Spit Mk XIV: 363mph
Fw 190D-9: 357mph(380mph with MW 50)
10000ft.
F4U-4: 420mph
P-51D: 416mph
Me 109G-10: 413mph
Spit Mk XIV: 400mph
Fw 190D-9: 397mph
20000ft.
F4U-4: 450mph
Me 109G-10: 450mph
Tempest Mk V: 435mph at 17k
Fw 190D-9: 428mph(439mph at 18k with MW 50)
La-7: 425mph
P-51D: 424mph
Spit Mk XIV: 423mph
F8F-1: 421mph
25000ft.
Spit Mk XIV: 446mph
F4U-4: 445mph
Me 109G-10: 440mph
P-51D: 437mph
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With the exception of the F8F-1, all the planes above should be regular arena planes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by juzz:
Top speeds...
Sea level.
Fw 190D-9: 357mph(380mph with MW 50)
Juzz, that's all I wanted to know. The rest is unimportant (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(380 mph 380 mph 380 mph)
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
"Will the REAL P51B ever get modeled, ever get modeled, ever get modeled....
... we're gonna have a problem here.."
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
P-51K would be nice to round out the series (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Juzz's numbers look correct to me.
Only thing that will outrun a Fw190D-9 using MW-50 on the deck is a Tempest.
Nashwan or RAM (I don't remember which) have been saying that the Spitfire MkXIV could do 400 on the deck. That is a number I have never come across. I have many, many reference books sitting right above me, and the speed that the Spitfire MkXIV is listed at on the dect is always 363mph.
The Spitfire MkXIV tops out at 448mph at 26,000ft.
The Spit XIV will also accelerate very well, climb fast and turn fast. She won't roll or dive particularly well, especially rolling at high speeds.
Frankly, the Luftwaffe here probably has more to fear from a Tempest MkV being introduced than from a Spitfire MkXIV as most of the fighting in AH is below 20,000ft. In addition the Tempest has 4 20mm Hispano MkV cannon as opposed to the Spit's 2 20mm Hispano MkII cannon and 4 .303 Brownings or 2 20mm Hispano MkII cannon and 2 .5 Brownings.
Sisu
-Karnak
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I don't think I've ever said the Spit could do 400 on the deck. I have read that Spit 14s modified by having armour removed, polished and running on 150 octane could do 400mph at 2000ft, but they were specials used only for chasing V-1s.
This chart gives speed at altitude for various Spits:
(http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/spitpix/spit2.gif)
Anyone know why it shows the Spit 21 so much faster at 12,000ft?
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I wanna Komet...now!!
(g,d,r)
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Long range Artillery would be cool. Don't know how you would deal with spotting though. That would be the difficult part.
Jarbo
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The Mk XIV and Mk 21 have different engines. The Mk 21 obviously has a higher full throttle height(FTH) in the medium supercharged(MS) gear.
Btw: I believe this plane is on the list of possible perk planes...?
P-51H
Engine: One Packard Merlin V-1650-9 warp drive rated at 1380hp for takeoff and war emergency power of 2218hp at 10200ft and 1900hp at 20000ft with water injection.
Maximum speed: 444mph at 5000ft, 463mph at 15000ft, 487mph at 25000ft.
Climb: 5000ft in 1.5 min. 15000ft in 5 min.
Service ceiling: 41600ft.
Weights: 6585lbs empty, 9500lbs loaded.
Wing span: 37ft, Wing area: 235sq ft.
Oh, and: The P-51K differed from the P-51D in having an 11-foot diameter Aeroproducts propeller in place of the 11 feet 2 inch diameter Hamilton Standard unit. These were all known as NA-111 by the company. The P-51K had a slightly inferior performance to that of the P-51D.
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 07-16-2000).]
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Juzz's numbers look correct to me.
Only thing that will outrun a Fw190D-9 using MW-50 on the deck is a Tempest.
Nashwan or RAM (I don't remember which) have been saying that the Spitfire MkXIV could do 400 on the deck. That is a number I have never come across. I have many, many reference books sitting right above me, and the speed that the Spitfire MkXIV is listed at on the dect is always 363mph.
The Spitfire MkXIV tops out at 448mph at 26,000ft.
The Spit XIV will also accelerate very well, climb fast and turn fast. She won't roll or dive particularly well, especially rolling at high speeds.
Frankly, the Luftwaffe here probably has more to fear from a Tempest MkV being introduced than from a Spitfire MkXIV as most of the fighting in AH is below 20,000ft. In addition the Tempest has 4 20mm Hispano MkV cannon as opposed to the Spit's 2 20mm Hispano MkII cannon and 4 .303 Brownings or 2 20mm Hispano MkII cannon and 2 .5 Brownings.
Sisu
-Karnak
I posted the 400 number. The book said it was with 150 octane fuel at 2000 ft.(that sounds like the deck to me but I realize it isnt.)
BTW you would need to do the same things(except the 150 fuel) to get the top speed we get out of our spit v.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
anyways, im figuring the spit XIv would be like the g10- climbs like a rocket and is fast as hell, but is hard to control. If this is the case, i think its perfectly fair, as i definitely prefer less speed and climb for better handling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (see my g6 stats and my g10 stats haha who says latewar planes are better)
Zig
I have just come accross a quote in Wings of Fame that supports your opinion on this point. It describes the XIV as having signifigantly worse handling then the IX.
Obviosly that opinion weighed heavily with the designers of the WB spit XIV..whoever they were.
I can type in the quote tonight if anywhone would like to see it.
mmmm
A spit with personality, HP, and a bubble canopy.....does it get any better?
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Well sorry, the first bubble canopy Spits were introduced in early 45.
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So? No 45 planes then?
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Ki61 (with MG151/20 or Ho-5 20mm cannon model)
Ki43
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"RED DACTYL"
"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"
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I have seen that all Spit Fr XIVs had the bubble canopy, and the F versions had traditional razorback. I don't know if that's true, but if it is Spit FR XIVs were in service in June 44 at the latest.
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There's way too much talk of late war planes, let's get some early war putt-putt planes like the I-16 and Curtiss Hawk. Of course we'll need a separate arena where they can fly without being Dora meat.
<<P-51K would be nice to round out the series
>>
FYI the P-51K was just a P-51D with a propeller from a different manufacturer. Maybe you're thinking of the P-51H, which had a Merlin on steriods producing 2200 hp, top speed was around 480 mph. It never saw combat.
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In the majority of cases where an aircraft was shot down in fighter-versus-
fighter combat, the victim never saw his assailant before it was too late to
take effective evasive action. Most such attacks were mounted from the
fighter's blind zone, below and behind, and many a pilot gained ace sta-
tus by exploiting this weakness. Obviously, therefore, if the Spitfire could
be modified to reduce the chances of a successful surprise attack by the
enemy, its probability of survival in action would be correspondingly
enhanced.
The answer was to cut back the rear fuselage behind the cockpit, and fit the fighter with a bubble canopy. A Spitfire Mk VIII modified in this way flew for the first time in mid-1943. The manufacturer's trials showed the change brought no significant deterioration in the aircaft's handling characteristics, and itwent to the Air Fighting Development Unit at Duxford to allow experienced service pilots to fly it. The latter were hugely
impressed with the increase in view to the rear and below brought about by the bubble canopy, and their report noted:
This is an enormous improvement over the standard Spitfire rear view. The pilot can see quite easily round to his fin and past it, almost to the further edge of the tailplane; ie, ifhe looks over his left shoulder he can practically see to the starboard tip of the tail. By banking the aircraft slightly during weaving action, the downward view to the rear is opened
up well.'
Production Spitfire Mk IXs, XIVs and XV Is fitted with bubble canopies began reaching operational squadrons in early in 1945, and they immediately became popular with pilots.
***from "Late Marque Spitfire Aces" ISBN 1-85532-575-6***
Btw, the FR.Mk XIV was a recon variant.
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-21-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Nath, the FR.XIV is a recon vesion armed with a camera, 2 20mm Hispano cannons and 2 .5 inch Brownings. FR satands for Fighter-Reconisance. The PR prefix means it is an unarmed recon Spitfire. My information isn't specific, but seems to indicate that the bubble hooded Spitfire FR.XIV first entered sevice in June of '44.
Thanks for posting the quote, could you tell us what it is from?
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 07-21-2000).]
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jeez, look under the quote...
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Oops. I was blind. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Sorry.
Sisu
-Karnak
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"Work work work, work work work...Hello Boys, I missed you!"
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Screw that!, I work for Mel Brooks!
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It seems that apart from RAM nearly every other post in here would welcome the addition of the spit XIV, so lets have it but with one proviso (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Make it the clipped wing version !!!
Lol that should fan the flames (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seriously tho saw one in action at the Duxford Flying Legends airshow a few weeks ago and it absolutely stole the display section, nothing else came close.
This reporter at dogfighter thought so too. http://www.dogfighter.com/ (http://www.dogfighter.com/)
How could you not want this plane, its even got the bubble canopy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://www.dogfighter.com/images/reviews/airshows/duxford/flyinglegends2000/SpitXIV clip.jpg (http://www.dogfighter.com/images/reviews/airshows/duxford/flyinglegends2000/SpitXIVclip.jpg)
Delete this from URL SpitXIVclip.jpg
and you can browse all the piccys they got from Duxford, i am sure many of you would find something of interest.
[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 07-21-2000).]
[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 07-21-2000).]
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Anybody care to explain how i could have edited previous message ?
Lol RTFM works everytime (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Tried to delete this one and failed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 07-21-2000).]
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I'll take it. Its not as pretty as a Spitfire Mk F.XIV, but it'd be a wonderful beast below 15,000 feet.
Sisu
-Sisu
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Pongo type in that quote please.
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I say we need at least a JU-52 (need something besides an American Para Plane) and the ME262. (Gotta love the jet)
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Originally posted by ra:
FYI the P-51K was just a P-51D with a propeller from a different manufacturer.
Easy variant to model and I love Kit Carson's paint scheme (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
3 Mustangs are better than 1. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Then maybe the P-51H for the 4th and perked Mustang.
- Jig
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Funked.
"Flight tests with the intial mk XIV conversions revealed this variant to be an extremely effective fighter. Its performance was a huge improvement over the Mk IX and the MK XII. Jeffery Quill said that in his view the Mk XIV had the best fighting ability of any of the Spitfire variants. That did not mean it was an easy machine to fly however. "...The Mk XIV, with its tremendous power, increased propeller solidity and increased all-up weight and moments of intertia, was a good deal more of a handful for the pilot and so required more attention to 'flying' then its predecessors. Directional stability was a problem and the aircraft was apt to shear about a lot with a coarse use of the throttle; large changes in speed required prompt attention to the rudder trim. We at Supermarine tried all manner of expediants to improve the directional characteristics of the Mk XIv. The only real answer was to fit a much larger fin and rudder but it was a major design change and the Spitfire Mk 22 was the first production version to be fitted with it.
"So far as the Mk XIV was concerned, I took the view that performance was paramount; and if the pilots had to work a bit harder and concentrate a bit more on their flying, then that was better then sending them to war in an aircraft of inferior performance."
Alfred Price
Wings of Fame Volume 16
Griffon Spitfire and Seafire
Comment.
I think this opinion must have heavily influenced the designers of WB. It seems a very sound observation. I have always felt the flight harmony of the spit IX was one of its most outstanding characteristics in AH vs the LW planes. The 190A5 is the only German plane with a comparable feel. The Spit XIV would likey not be as tippy as a 109G10 or a 190A8 but it would be alot more of a handful then the Spit IX.
I was just amazed how closly this quote matched Zigs theory. Which rang very true to me so I dug arround again for Spit XIV thoughts. Yes it has the turn circle of the Spit IX, but not its sweet handling.
[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 07-22-2000).]