Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chairboy on August 03, 2002, 09:56:11 PM

Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Chairboy on August 03, 2002, 09:56:11 PM
Saturday Night, around 7:00 PST, a massive wave of rocket planes attacked from Knightland!

Anyone who wasn't there, you missed quite a show.  They relaxed the fuel requirements so the Me-163s could apparently fly forever (so they could be used as active defense, I guess), so they attacked en-masse.

Sadly, there were a handful of people whining about the Me-163s ruining their game, and they went home crying into their skirts because they couldn't understand that this is the kind of thing that happens once a year.  Boo hoo hoo!

Hitech said something about adding the Me-163 to the game for 25perks in the future.  Of course, I may have misheard and he might have said you GET 25 perks for shooting one down tonight, so...  

Anyhow, lots of fun!  I think I'll go and do something more gentle for an hour or so, like let myself get raped by a pack of gorrillas.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Vipermann on August 03, 2002, 10:02:19 PM
Yea they were everywhere. I killed 3 in one mission and got 25 perks, I think though that 2 of those were crashes so I may have only gotten perk credit for the one.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Creamo on August 03, 2002, 10:26:49 PM
As i Ms. Cleo'd awhile back, noting late war will dominate plane additions, this is a gimme. Stuka next release for sure, but SWOTL planes will fill the set.

A savy AH user would do a easy comparison.

Someone list what we DON't have from SWOTL, you will be surprised. More so after the next release.

Just saying, and like the bomber strat idea thread asking for royalties, Funky's silence is pure joy.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Animal on August 03, 2002, 11:01:03 PM
Screenshots please
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: brendo on August 03, 2002, 11:03:54 PM
Its true!

I captured many on film. However, I though that this one is the most approprate to post :cool: :D .

Five minutes ago in the MA.

Someone needs to post this on AGW. The Warbirds guys will piss there pants :)

I might post a 'proper' film later :D
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: funkedup on August 03, 2002, 11:04:41 PM
blah blah blah boozeonics blah blah blah
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Creamo on August 03, 2002, 11:33:35 PM
Silence is joy, a pitiful reponce isn't any fun.

Now I'm going to open another PBR, come on Funky. Get a group reponce, something viable.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: ramzey on August 03, 2002, 11:38:53 PM
Sad :( arena have bug

dont see earth and stars from that alt;)
HT fix that pls ;):D  and altimetr end scale over 100kft;)


(http://www.raf303.org/ramzey/traning/ahss29.gif)

(http://www.raf303.org/ramzey/traning/ahss30.gif)


ty HTC

ramzey
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Roscoroo on August 03, 2002, 11:41:07 PM
what Perks !!!!!!   i wasted a 262 killing 2 of those natly type super  uber speed of sound dweebs and didnt get a single perk!!!!    note at 550mph them silly things pulled away  . they cant be that fast ???? can they ?????

OK now Wheres My Stuka and my B-29 ???????
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Gator on August 03, 2002, 11:46:36 PM
Ahhh, that was cool!  :cool:

Thanx, Brendo, for the film.  :)
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Karnak on August 03, 2002, 11:46:40 PM
That was a lot of fun.  Trashed my K/D, but what the hell, it was a lot of fun.

I got one in a Spitfire Mk IX, got 10 perkies for it.  Seems the Me163 ENY was set to 0.

Roscoroo,

Me163 had a top speed of 596mph.  It was the fastest manned vehicle in WWII.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: funkedup on August 03, 2002, 11:51:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
Silence is joy, a pitiful reponce isn't any fun.

Now I'm going to open another PBR, come on Funky. Get a group reponce, something viable.


What am I responding to or being silent about again?  I forgot.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Edbert on August 04, 2002, 12:10:04 AM
The 163 will be out for general use soon (2weeks?) but (hang on to your panties...) WILL NOT BE PERKED!

It will only be availbale at fields next to the HQ. The final decision about the burn-time has not been determined but should be 4 or 5 minutes.

If you plan on using it to vulch...that MIGHT get you to within sight of an enemy base...have fun.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: AKWeav on August 04, 2002, 12:15:07 AM
I'm hoping that when they are out for general use, they won't have what seems to be unlimited fuel. Tonight they seemed to have more range than a P-51 with drop tanks.:rolleyes:

Anyways, have fun at the con folks, didn't mind dying all night for yas:D
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Edbert on August 04, 2002, 12:24:53 AM
Quote

Me163 had a top speed of 596mph. It was the fastest manned vehicle in WWII.


Cursory flight report:
The AH-163 seemed about that speed in sustained full WEP (just kidding) burn on level flight. But I got one up to well over 650 before the shudder and compression became too severe. Most of the 163 deaths were due to pilot error. Once you are over 500MPH any sudden back pressure on the stick caused an instant trip to the tower. BREATHING on the stick with a negative-g move did the same. I asked HT about it, curious as to what I was seeing since it did not seem to be wing failure (although others around said it looked like that) and he responded that I had over-stresed the human unit. Guess that means I broke my neck :)

This plane actually handles quite well, in fact at speed it is almost twitchy. Rudder authority is good at all speeds. I am not accustomed to the ballistics of the 30mm but they seemed to fall a lot. I also noted more than once an enemy plane taking more than one ping. B26s were 30mm sponges, B17s much less so, and Ju88s were like a spit.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Chairboy on August 04, 2002, 01:50:50 AM
The following links give figures in regards to powered flight endurance:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/me163.htm 8-10 minutes

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16a.htm 7.5 minutes

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me163.htm 8 minutes

3 minutes is too short, the real life burn time was 8-10 minutes as noted above.

Regards,

Chairboy
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Gixer on August 04, 2002, 04:00:04 AM
Don't they still hold the record for rate of climb?


...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on August 04, 2002, 06:58:27 AM
I would think not.

Even tho it could climb to 40,000 ft. in 3 min and 35 sec with initial rate of climb of about 16,000 ft./min, it couldn't climb vertical like some modern jets can.
I can't remember the exact angle, but I believe it climbed at about 50 degree at a speed of about 450 mph.
__________________
Ltn. Snefens
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/index2.htm)
(http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/209.gif)
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Wilfrid on August 04, 2002, 07:34:21 AM
Welcome to the best looking plane texture in Aces High...
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: ccvi on August 04, 2002, 10:19:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
I can't remember the exact angle, but I believe it climbed at about 50 degree at a speed of about 450 mph.


I think it was 420mph at 70 degrees.

In the screen shot above, is it really the same vertical speed indicator that is used in all other planes?
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: AKDejaVu on August 04, 2002, 10:28:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ccvi

In the screen shot above, is it really the same vertical speed indicator that is used in all other planes?
Looks like it:
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Halo on August 04, 2002, 10:54:14 AM
Wow, Edbert, unperked 163s with historically limited fuel only at fields next to Hq, last ditch point defense for highest priority targets ... wow!  Is this the Greatest Game in the History of the Universe or what?
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Heinkel on August 04, 2002, 10:55:19 AM
Killing the VVS Rocket, with the LW one:
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Heinkel on August 04, 2002, 10:57:11 AM
Yak trys break turn when 163 bounces:
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Heinkel on August 04, 2002, 10:58:07 AM
Zeke vs 163:
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Heinkel on August 04, 2002, 10:58:56 AM
Another yak, trying his fancy moves
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Majors on August 04, 2002, 01:34:49 PM
Hi Mates

You gotta be kidding!!  Dogfighting in a Me-163??  This plane was designed to use a rocket engine to drive it up to 30K to attack BOMBERS!!!  After it hit that alt, the fuel was gone and it was a glider all the way back down.  No propulsion!!

Who designed this one to have power all the time??  Totally wrong.  Also, understand the controls were tough to manage as the speed declined.  Don't think these little planes did much damaged to the mustangs, etc.  The 262 was a different story.

As for new planes, where are the B25 and B24 and Stukas?

Hope nobody got real excited over the 163.  Only supposed to be a bomber killer.




Majors
249RAF
Oldest Yank in the RAF

PS Was in the second grade at school when these airplanes were actually flying
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Heinkel on August 04, 2002, 01:56:06 PM
IT was just FUN night!! The actuall plane didn't have 520 rounds of 30mm, and a 1 hour endurance. When it formally gets introduced it will be realistic. (at least I think so)
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Wotan on August 04, 2002, 02:30:19 PM
majors are u paying attention?

ofcourse there were no real life restrictions on it. Thats why they call umm "evil con missions".

Its was a 1 time aces high covention "tease"

theres some severly humorless people in the world

:rolleyes:
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Puke on August 04, 2002, 06:40:28 PM
I got to sit in on Daddog's computer at the con and the 163s are fun!  However, I discovered while chasing an ME262 is that negative G shuts off the engine.  In fact, I didn't realize at first the engine was off but noticed I was slowing and the 262 was getting distance on me.  A later flight where I pushed nose down hard confirmed my suspicion when the engine shut off.

Daddog, sorry about borrowing your computer to practice my ME262 hangar fly-throughs in the MA.  I hope you didn't really need those perk points.  :D
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Chairboy on August 05, 2002, 11:20:34 PM
Geez, Majors, why the buzz kill?  It was just for a couple hours, modelled that way for fun.  The Me-163s in the game will probably have something like 5-10 minutes of fuel, depending on thrust, like in real life.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: brendo on August 06, 2002, 05:39:12 AM
In the screenshots above, there appears to be a Film Viewer GUI. To view films, I use the inbuilt feature after running the normal AH icon.

Is there a seperate viewer somewhere? I head someone once mention you can edit film. Is this correct?
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: illo on August 06, 2002, 05:57:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
I would think not.

Even tho it could climb to 40,000 ft. in 3 min and 35 sec with initial rate of climb of about 16,000 ft./min, it couldn't climb vertical like some modern jets can.
I can't remember the exact angle, but I believe it climbed at about 50 degree at a speed of about 450 mph.
__________________
Ltn. Snefens
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
My AH homepage (http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/index2.htm)
(http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/209.gif)



I always thought it could climb vertical.
70degrees  was instructed climb angle after takeoff.

http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/me163/me163_1.asp
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: brady on August 06, 2002, 06:38:43 AM
That night I tryed a few things, powerless flight, It handeled the way I expected it to, Beautifuly, blead E very slowly indead I got 3 kills in a power off condition, simnply by looping and diving very pleasent to fly , when I started to blead E and slow, I simply turned on the engine and ZOOOM. Granted the model is not yet finished. But I beleave with the correct usage of the available fuel, some fun could certainly be had with the Me 163:)

 Btw will we have more "rocket" like effects, when we see the finial model? Like Rocket sound, More ZOOOM efect, it kinda seamed to wind up like the Jet engines we have. Flame and smoke like it had in real life.

 Hey whears my AR 234 Drag chute?
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on August 06, 2002, 08:09:26 AM
Illo, I was going by the fact that the engine was able to produce a maximum thrust of about 3,750 lbs. Since the empty Me 163B weighed about 4,200 lbs it would be able to maintain a vertical climb for a good time, but with a slow, yet steady loss of speed.
Actually accelerating vertically it could not.
The Me 163C with the added auxillery jet of an additional 660 lbs would be even closer, but still not able to accelerate (it weighs a little bit more too).

Brady, nice to know that you can stop and start engine in flight.
I was reading a bit of Eric Browns test-flying of the Komet, and he mentions that the engine was shut off, before attacks on the bombers and after that, relighting the engine and climbing back up before the process was repeated.
He says that 2 minutes had to have elapsed between stop and start, but doesn't say what would happen if you tried to start engine before that.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: deSelys on August 06, 2002, 09:02:32 AM
Some data on the 163 can be found there (http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60830).
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: dgsbdy on August 06, 2002, 04:33:31 PM
I have one documented fight of ME 163's ignoring the bombers and attacking the escorts, either three or 6 p51's were shot down,.... I will try to find it. Other than that very few confirmed kills of either escorts or bombers were recorded. There were several close calls, and as had been said, operational losses far exceeded losses due to combat, and far outnumbered confirmed kills.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Karnak on August 06, 2002, 08:41:44 PM
The first fighter to be able to accelerate straight upwards was the F-15.  Last I heard (as of the mid-80s) the Su-27 held the record for climb rate in a fighter.  I'm sure that's changed by now.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: streakeagle on August 06, 2002, 09:24:48 PM
The F-15 was the first fighter to have greater than 1:1 T/W at takeoff: Thrust in the 48000 lb class vs combat takeoff weight of 42,500 lbs class.

However, the F-4 Phantom weighed 29,000 lb empty and had over 34,000 lbs of thrust. The F-4 Phantom held all the low altitude climb records prior to the Eagle (MiG-25 Foxbat had the high altitude records).

So to make a long story short, the F-15 was not the first fighter to be able to climb vertically. It merely was able to do so under a wider range of operating conditions.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Bluedog on August 06, 2002, 11:22:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by brendo
In the screenshots above, there appears to be a Film Viewer GUI. To view films, I use the inbuilt feature after running the normal AH icon.

Is there a seperate viewer somewhere? I head someone once mention you can edit film. Is this correct?


try Ahfilm.exe in your HTC folder.
Title: Me-163s!
Post by: Toad on August 06, 2002, 11:32:15 PM
"The unit made its first interception of Allied bombers on August 16, 1944 without success. Early combat experiences demonstrated a number of problems that prevented the Me 163 from ever becoming an effective weapon. Although the aircraft's two MK 108 30mm cannons were capable of downing a four-engine bomber with only three or four hits, the Komet's high speed, coupled with the cannons' slow rate of fire and short range made effective gunnery nearly impossible against the slow moving bombers. As a result, Me 163 pilots recorded a total of only nine kills.

 Although capable of reaching its service ceiling of 12,100 m (39,690 ft) in just under three-and-a-half minutes, the Me 163 carried only enough fuel for eight minutes of powered flight. After one or two firing passes, the pilot had to glide back to base with no means of escaping Allied escort fighters. In response to pilots' combat reports, alternative weapons, including vertically firing 50mm cannons triggered by a photocell as the Me 163 passed through a bomber's shadow were tested but not produced in quantity. An improved variant of the aircraft with a greater endurance and a tricycle landing gear, designated the Me 163 C, was also produced in small numbers before the war's end, but was not flown operationally."

National Air and Space Museum (http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/me163.htm)