Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kronos on August 08, 2002, 07:57:56 PM
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I am curious....
I am what Iron Eagle I defines as "a fly by the seat of my pants" kind of guy. now I know that Iron eagle has nothing to do with reality.. Ok thats a given.
Here's my question though :
Do you fly by the instruments that AH provides, or by the seat of ur pants? (meaning relying just exactly on what you see?)
Once again, I have gone into a major slump. I am trying to figure out what im doing wrong, so far to no avail. I thought it might be my stick, as my X36 was gettting old, and not all of the views were working, plus I had upgraded to winXP which was a headache of all its own.
HOwever, the other day, I recieved my X45 and all my view problems went away. Although that did help a bit, it seems my fundamental problem remains. I AM BEING killed much more than I am dying. Now I am not the best, never have been, never will be, but in the 2 years I've been flying AH, ive managed to hold my own.
I have always used my SA as my primary means of figuring out what to do. I very rarely look at my instruments, and I don't worry about whether I am turning at my optimal speed or not. But lately as ive gone into this slump i want to look at my gauges more closely, but when I do, my SA goes out the window. (Seems I cant do 2 things at once :) )
What I want to know is, do most people fly by looking through their views, or do they read their instruments to tell them when to turn or extend or do some off the wall manuevar I can't counter?
(one other thing I've noticed is people have gotten real good at turning in a direction I least expect while I am engaged in blackout) Yes I know this means I'm turning too hard, but when I don't turn so hard, its very diffucult to remain on an enemies six :).
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Instruments? what are they? :)
Dunno about anyone else, but about the only instrument I use regularly would be the 'G meter'....accellerometer .....to get an accurate 0G dive happening.
Apart from that, I check my altimeter every now and then to make sure I still quallify as an Alt Monkey, and maybe my compass every now and then, so's I know roughly where I am going.
I allmost never use the air speed indicator, I judge my E state and speed by the volume of the wind sound more than by looking at a gauge.
And all that is just flying around....in an actual fight, my eyes are glued to the target/s, and never stray down to look at instruments.
In a bomber, especially if flying with a few squaddies in formation, I make much use of the instrument panel to get accurate throttle settings, both RPM and manifold pressure, making it much easier for the guys to form up and stay there.
Probably not all that helpfull to you Kronos, but thats what I do mate :)
\
Cyas up.
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A little of both mixed with education.
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very good question,
never really thought about it much. I guess it depends on the activity. I also tend to print out the charts of planes I commonly run into (which is easy in the ct).
I look at my guages alot when I am bnzing. In fact I rely on them entirely. Maneuvering in any plane when you are bouncing somebody is bad news, but I like to know what my options are. If you are bouncing them and at high alt that means they can probably maneuver much better than you. Your blacking out problem is probably related to that. Rarely do I get into situations like you describe, but only because I try not to dogfight good axis turners with allied planes that behave well only at speed. e.g a f4u will turn with a 109 but only at 250 and if your blacking out while the 109 will turn fine at 200 and not black out (pulling this out of my arse but you get the gist). I guess the best example is a ufo, I mean niki.
In a dogfight, I rarely pay any attention. It is all about anticipating the enemy's next move. That is where the ma blows chunks. In the CT after a few days you tend to know what the enemy can and cant or shouldn't do. Then you can start playing chess with them. THis changes every week of course and you have to learn all over. In the ma there are just too many plane combinations, and it becomes arcade. Pilots during the war excelled because they knew there enemies and they knew the planes they were flying.
The fact that anybody can take a p51 or p47 or 190 up in the ma and sit around and bounce till their hearts desire is a testiment of the gaminess of the whole thing. Thinking about strat in the ma makes my head hurt. Looking at gauges is irrelivent at that point.
erg
p.s. I think hitech would even respect those spelling errors!
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1. I don't read any of the charts, but rely solely on my experience with the various planes encountered and which tactics worked best. As matter of priority, there are more important things to concider.
2. I'll pay attention to my speed and E state and will just feel my G forces - when I have a small visible area and the rest is black, i'm in harmony with my plane.
3. SA around you is imperitive, screw always watching the dials, time is better spent looking around and listening to your engine.
4. Pick your fight, don't engage unless you have advantage or a good chance of survivability.
5. Know the pro's and con's of your plane and use em to your advantage.
IMHO :p
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Kro,
you use snap view only dont ya?
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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The only one I always use is the speed meter. I mostly fly LW rides, and in those, speed is ..eh..kinda important. :)
But the primary reason I'm looking at that meter so often is because it tells me when I can do that immelmann or when I would just make myself an easykill-stalling-victim.
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Rudder, Ammo Readout, Compass and the Gear Lights are the only instruments I use.
SA and patience. Flying your aircraft to its strengths and choose your enemy before he chooses you.
That sums up my successes. When I deviate from the above. Its sums up my losses.
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There's an instrument display for rudder?
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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Originally posted by Swoop
There's an instrument display for rudder?
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
I use the one where you can see if your airplane is skidding or whatever its called in english. You know, the one where you see if you are flying in a straight line or not.
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yes Swoop, I use snap views only.
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I believe you mean the slip indicator Hortlund.
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Hey Kronos,
I scan my instruments frequently. Indeed, the key is to learn how to scan them. By scan, I mean a very quick glance, scanning across the entire panel. Learning to process the information a quick scan provides takes some time, but anyone can learn the method. Those of you who fly for fun and/or profit probably know how to do this. Military pilots are taught this early in their training. It is essential, because one cannot afford to be flying in combat with their "head in the cockpit". This is why modern fighters have heads-up displays. Important flight data is right in the line of sight. Since we don't have HUDs, you may need to learn how to do an efficient instrument scan. It's not unlike speed reading, where you read paragraphs, rather than just sentences.
Go offline and fly around, practice reading your instruments by glance. Make note of what you could and could not determine. Practice and practice some more. You WILL get the hang of it, and when you do, you will find that it greatly improves your overall SA. It's really not unlike doing an outside scan, where you make note of all the aircraft around you, their alt and E, and whether they are a threat or not.
My experience is that you are a very good pilot, so flying skills are not an issue. I suspect that you have been a victim of circumstances more than anything else. Mathman had a bit of slump recently. However, I believe that he stuck to what worked for him in the past, and came out of it with a vengence! Again, in his case I suspect it was just bad luck and circumstance. You will turn it around too, I'm confident of it.
Good luck.
Widewing
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Ah I see what you mean. I dont use that at all after take off, I just *know* how much I'm skidding by how far I'm deflecting the rudder (how far ya twist the stick or push the pedals, depending on your set up). Know what I mean? I dont need an instrument to show me how far I'm deflecting rudder cos *I'M* the one deflecting it. Once you're in trim it's automatic and getting in trim is really a no brainer with the autopilot modes.
Instruments I use in a fight:
Airspeed. V important to KNOW if you've got enough E to make it over the top.
Ammo counters. Kinda a no brainer this one, since you've gotta look forward to shoot and the ammo counters are usually in the frame.
Altimeter. Know your plane, know what alt is best for the bugger, know what alt the wing layers are at and make your zoom climbs through wind layers in the correct direction to get the tail wind boost. Oh....and knowing what alt the ground is at may help as well.
ROC indicator. Following a bogey in an E fight I try to stay as level as possible, I dont wanna climb and lose E and I dont wanna dive and give up more alt atvantage.
Fuel gauge? Worth a look now and again.....
I moved my head position back in all planes to get a better view of the instruments, all shooting is done in zoom mode and all dogfighting is done zoomed out. I also use a mix of pan view and snap view. Pan to follow a bandit through manouvers cos when you're blacking out ya cant see bogeys on the edge of the screen, only in the exact center.....so I use pan to keep the bogey in the exact center. To shoot and/or check instruments F1 snaps you back to forward view.....and automatically puts you in snap view mode so ya can quickly check 6 as well.
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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Turn engine sound down, turn wind sound up.
Don't look at airspeed, Listen to it.!
Gauges are for landing, or a quick glance to check alt.
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I watched Swoop use the pan view mode at the Con...I have now devoted myself to adjusting to its use. It works wonders for SA in a dog fight...especially when the snap view doesn't show the Con, due to blackouts or simply in a blind spot. If a Con is in a blindspot you must manouver to see it...this can blow E in a big way unless you are careful. Panning the view solves this problem. BUT..it takes some getting used to, as I am discovering now.
He still used snaps view btw....he has a button programmed to go into pan mode (F8) and a button to revert to normal views (F1), with snap. Used in conjunction it is one explaination as to why Swoop's ranking is so high virtually every tour!
I use alt meter, speedometer and ammo count gauges....occassionally I use the G-Meter when I really need to get out of dodge with a zero-G extension.
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Anyone ever watch Drex fly?
Therein lies your answer.
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eyup
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Kronus send some new films(ones that record your view movement) and send them to bkdrex@icqmail.com
I'll get back to you, bud
Drex
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I've seen Drex fly, he sucks.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Hey Kronos,
I scan my instruments frequently. Indeed, the key is to learn how to scan them. By scan, I mean a very quick glance, scanning across the entire panel.
Widewing
This is what I do also. I include the insturment info with my SA info to determine what move will be next and what enema will get my attention. The insturment layout was one of the toughest things for me to learn after comming from AW 3 years ago. The TnB indicator is vital for dive bombing accuracy at altitude.
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Do you fly by the instruments that AH provides, or by the seat of ur pants? (meaning relying just exactly on what you see?)
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Both :cool:
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Honestly I dont know much about the other planes. Not like some people on this BBS do so I would say I fly by intuition. I used to be a data geek but I noticed the FM is always being reworked and improved so I gave up with the numbers and trying to keep track of all that stuff. I keep in my mind the basics, which plane is faster slower etc.. better guns, truns better. That way I dont feel too pissed and Im saved by ignorance when a spit9 outdives my 109 or something (not saying that that happens). A little ignorance is good I think.
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About the only instrument I look at in here is the speed gauge, with occasional glances at altimeter. If you are getting beat at merge turns you are probably going too fast. Try to find the best speed for turning with a given plane and hang around that, even if you need to chop throttle before you merge.
Also make sure you have all views for your stick. That means an UP view as well that you hold down, so it gives the UP/SIDE,UP/BACK ets views. If you lose sight of the enemy its bad news. I black out on initial turns quite often, but they are the light variety, when its only a split second of balck, then I ease up slightly,and as soon as I come clear I go full pull again. By that time your energy is at a more controlable level. Also, dont over pull. All stick inputs should be as if you only had a 1/4 inch of sway in your stick, rather than slamming it around. The enemy will usually find a way to stall by themselves..as long as you maintain gentle inputs, you should come out ok. Im still learning this game as well, but its amazing how similar this AH is to Air Warrior. I guess physics is physics.
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#1 guage for me is the airspeed indicator so I can maneuver at the planes designed cornering speed and #2 the compass so I can run like hell when i'm out of the speed parameters back to base.
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Number one gauge for me is the one in my head.
That gauge tells me when I can stay, when I have to leave.
It tells me when to set up and when to be patient. Tells me when I can push, and when I can't.
99 percent of my deaths are from not reading the gauge in my head.
It's right 99 percent of the time.
The problem is I only bother to read it 30 percent of the time.
If I just looked at it, and acted accordingly...
I'd be a different pilot.
You would think after four years of flying I just might figure that out.. but
NOT
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There is all kinds of information in this thread that I will have to sift through and work at. I'm not exactly sure about the panning view, but will give it a try, and work with it abit to see if I can get used to it. With snap views, I've gotten to the point to where I can judge where an enemy will be when he goes out of view, but that can lead to drastic mistakes if I get it wrong.
Widewing's post about scanning his instruments quickly hit home right away, as I know that is one of my weak points. I have a hard time finding the instruments that I'm looking for. I spend maybe 5 - 10 seconds looking hard at the cockpit trying to find the gauge I want, only to see it right under my nose. Will take some work to get them down.
And Drex, absolutely I will send you some films, however you may have to give me a couple of days... I got to sort through em, plus I rarely remember to hit the record button anyway... ( I actually had to post a sticky on my monitor at one time giving me a *takeoff checklist* in which I turned film on... but then I threw it away a couple of weeks later) :) (Maybe I need to make a new one? ) AKNimitz (I think) has a training sight with some films of him and I dueling.. you might get an idea from that where I look, but not sure. Any critique u have would be welcome.
Again everybody for all the info, will take it to heart and process it and see if I can get myself out of this rut. :) This is some good info for new guys just starting out as well.
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Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
I've seen Drex fly, he sucks.
I concur.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Flying the A8 requires watching the G Meter. Unloading G's in any aircraft import though. SA and G Meter....and occaisional glance at compass most important to me.
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Gosh come to think of it...... NathBDP has a point! Drex really SUX! :D
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AH is a game - don't want to upset anyone, but the best pilot in AH probaly dead in real life.
In Game... when I am flying smart (rarely) I do look a g meter, pulling too many g's means you bleeding E (somewhere in my travels I was taught if you pull more than 2 g's you screwing up.)
I'm pretty new (less than 6 months AH) but as I do look at guages MY primary sensory input is sound.
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Good spacial awareness is also important. You have to have the ability to know exactly where you are, where your enemy is, where to point your plane,while looking at him,determining where he will be,and making the moves that are more E efficient all the time. Its kind of like driving a car backwards using only your mirrors.
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fuel guage is the most important for me, and climb indicato second
would be nice just to be able to turn off the ones you dont use to increase your fps..:)
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I look at different things at at different times. I use all the guages at some time, but no guages in a fight. In a fight you better be looking out the window.
Here are some clues for when you are looking out the window.
Fast Speed - Wind sound
Slow Speed - Stall sound
Compression - Wind sound and buffeting
Attitude - relation of the horizon to your wings or sight
Direction - Sun
High Altitude - No shadow
Low Altitude - Big shadow
Plenty of Ammo - Sound when you pull the trigger
No Ammo - No sound when you pull the trigger
Time - Missing aircraft parts (time to leave)
:)
Gunner
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meanies...the whole lot of ya'
Drex
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Thnx :)
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Yes I know this means I'm turning too hard, but when I don't turn so hard, its very diffucult to remain on an enemies six .
How about turning a faster and bigger circle ? As in lag pursuit . Lots of times I just hang back with the bandit in the top of 8 , 5 view till he blows his e . I for one had a hard time getting this concept down . It really made sense to me when I compared it to a two balls tied on a end of a string that you would swing around . One in the middle and one on the end . They both make the same turn in the same amount of time but the outside one goes much much faster .
If your blacked out your burning way too much E and it just leaves you low and slow for the next con that comes along to waste you as you well know . In the MA its almost always better IMO to be the "outside ball" .
Sumps come and go , I think they are part of the game .
gl
spro
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I find that I have more success when I am in the right frame of mind, sometimes I just dont feel like being patient so I die a lot.
The best way to get out of a slump is to grab lots of alt in a BnZ plane and pick lone targets, or over a furrball with plenty of mates around. You will get your confidence back with a few kills and having confidence tends to improve your flying. Patience is probably one of the most important skills in the MA.
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No, no, no. The best slump breaker is taking off from a vultched field until you're not worried about dying anymore. Then all is well again.
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Kronus!
I have been flying AH for about 2 years now also. I usually go with what I see, I will look down at my speed if I have to manuever with a guy and/or evade someone. As this tour began I feel A LOT more comfortable in any plane. I don't know why I just feel like everything is perfect and I feel flawless even though I still get killed. You get a feel on your speed and if you could do a a manuever after a while. Slumps are part of all life, baseball players have slump...AH players have slumps. Even if you know what you are doing, you still are in the slump. I was in a HUGE slump for the whole month, no matter what I did...tanking, fighting, bombing...I couldn't do anything right and I would always get killed. What you have to do is fly your favorite plane and eventually you will slowly get outta your slump. You could also fly a slow plane, hurricane...and it will make you more cautious making your SA go up. You just gotta work your way out of a slump...just think whats going to happen after you do a manuever. Kronus, I hope this helps!
~BlueiceJ~
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Kronos:
I have flown with you enough to know that you are a very capable pilot. You are certainly much better than I am, so I won't presume to give you advice. Nonetheless, my recent "slump" experiences have led to a couple of observations that might be helpful.
1. I have only been flying AH (or any flight sim) for a little less than a year now. In that year, however, it seems to me that the quality of pilots in the MA has increased appreciably. I don't know if it is due to the influx of experienced pilots from other sims, or if it is just my misperception. In any case, the number of kills I am able to get due to "newbie" (I use that term sparingly, because I still consider myself a newbie compared to most of the jocks in here) behavior on the part of my oponents seems to have decreased.
2. Most of my slumps correlate directly with my lack of patience. The more I struggle, the more desparate for kills I become, and the more I plunge into unwinnable situations. There may be some pilots that are good enough to engage 3-, 4-, 5-, or 10-to-odds and get some kills and maybe even survive, but I am not one of them.
3. When I'm successful (for me) flying in a furball environment (which I love to do), I fight on the edges. Normally, a furball is located between two opposing fields, and if I get sucked too close to the enemy field, I invariably end up with a red conga line on my six.
4. I usually fly relatively fast, relatively poor-turning planes, and rarely am able to saddle up on a potential kill. Thus, my success depends to a large extent on my shooting ability. I am not by any stretch of the imagination a good shot, but I have been flying with tracers off for the last tour, and I find that I am getting better. I suspect that the really good pilots (i.e., those that can take on a large number of planes and survive) are really good shots. It seems to me that if you're in a 3-to-1 situation, you really can't hope for more than one or two gun solutions (probably snapshots) before you are smoking. Of course, if you're got an energy advantage, you can always zoom far away and re-engage at your leisure, but I don't think that's much fun.
5. As far as situations for breaking out of a slump go, I like to fly field defense. Of course, taking off from a completely CAP'd field is not a good idea, but if you can find a window to grab some altitude, you will soon find yourself in a target-rich environment. Nothing is more fun than killing vulchers :). I generally don't like to fly the La-7 (because I don't like the guns), but for field defense, it is my plane of choice. As far as I can tell, no other (non-perked) plane can accumulate energy as quickly.
6. I never used to fly missions, but I now try to do so whenever someone posts them. I think that they're a lot of fun and a diversion from worrying about how much I'm killing and dying. Plus, getting involved in the strategic war adds a new level of interest to the game (for me).
7. I find that when I am flying well, I pay attention to my instruments. In my opinion, the most important (particularly for the planes I tend to fly), are the speed and g meters (Of course altitude is important, too, and I've ignored it far too many times to my own demise!). I am often surprised by how flying a little more conservatively with respect to energy retention/accumulation makes a big difference, particularly in a furball. I am never pleased when I get a kill only to hear bullets tearing into my plane two seconds later!
That's enough rambling. You'll bounce back, I have no doubt about that!
- JNOV
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When I'm flying against an opposing plane, I tend to picture from the situation and his "apparent" energy state what "his" guages read rather than my own. Of course...if I guess wrong, things get somewhat ugly.
for horrific spelling