Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Buzzbait on August 09, 2001, 02:39:00 PM
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S! all
It`s great to see an effort made to accomadate the more historically minded flyers, but at the same time, from the descriptions given of the new Arena, it seems that it is almost guaranteed to fail.
Now before you all start flaming me, consider several givens :
All of us fly these Sims for fun.
If we are not having fun, we stop.
We are prepared to deal with some restrictions to that fun in the interests of historicity, but there is a limit.
Right now the CA is set up in such a way that those who fly primarily for fun will not be interested. And this is primarily because of the map.
With these considerations in mind, here is my analysis of what is needed for a HA, (or Combat Arena) to succeed.
#1 Most important of all, you need a good map. That map must cater to both those who don`t mind a lot of flying before they get to their combat, and those who want to be able to jump into the fight early.
There are several existing maps which fit this criteria. The Norway map is not one of them.
The English Channel/France and Western Germany map is a good choice. You have an area where the opposing airfields are very close, ie. the narrow channel between Dover and Calais. If the Arena is set to August 1944, then you can give the Allies a series of bases in Normandy. (restrict the aircraft based there to Typhoons and Spitfires) With this type of map, you can satisfy both the semi-furballer`s as well as the more hardcore historical types. Restricting the use of drop tanks by Allied aircraft, in particular the Spitfire and Typhoon, will mean those who want to fly the longer range missions will be using the historical aircraft, ie. P-51`s, P-47`s and P-38`s.
This map needs to be populated by appropriate targets. London, Paris, Lille, Antwerp, the cities in the Ruhr, these all should have at least one and perhaps several city and factory tiles in order to give each side a lot of targets. There should be ports, (CV and PT boat generating) at the larger coastal cities as well as Coastal guns at these locations. There should also be a lot of Rail lines and train movement on the map, running between the Cities/Factories and the front. Supply for fields and ports should be dependent on the running of the trains.
#2 On this map you need an AI manned front line. Right now you don`t have an AI strongpoint in existence which can be used to define the areas controlled by the respective sides. This would need to be a priority to create. Each strongpoint should include heavy weapons similar to the existing Coastal guns, as well as combination AA/MG emplacements similar to that you find at Airfields. A connect line of opposing strongpoints would make up the front. These strongpoints would not fire at each other, but only at Human controlled vehicles and aircraft.
Until you get an AI strongpoint, the front line should be defined by a series of Vehicle bases, grouped closer together than they are now.
If the only point where the sides are facing off is in Normandy, then the Front line area would be a relatively small area.
Each day at 3 :00am EST there would be reset, with a new set of strongpoints being created to match the territory controlled by each side.
#3 You need a few more vehicles to make the sides historically correct. The addition of the following would be the minimum required, but would allow for historical matchups :
M4A3 Sherman with 75mm main gun and gyroscope for the Allies
SdKpwagen 251 Halftrack for the German
That would give each side a tank, halftrack and AA vehicle.
#4 You need to have `IN FLIGHT` starts for Bombers and their escorts.
Historically the B17, B24 and Lancaster Groups formed up over the skies of England. They climbed to 20,000 ft, rendezvoused with their fighter escort, and then headed out over the North Sea towards Germany. The Germans did the same thing in 1940 with their JU88 formations.
Players should be allowed to go into a waiting room for Bomber/Escort missions. After 2 or more players have joined, when they are in agreement, they should be spawned in flight, at 20,000 feet at one of a series of predetermined start points. Players will be able to discuss doing this on the server, then all exit and go to the waiting room, and then spawn together. Fuel should be subtracted from the starting loadout dependent on the starting point.
#5 You need some slight changes to the Task forces, which should not be difficult to adapt.
a) Destroyer Task Forces : The standard TF minus Cruiser and CV.
b) Cruiser Task Force : The Standard TF with CV replaced by another Cruiser.
c) Battleship Task Force : The Standard TF with CV replaced by a Battleship.
#6 Coastal Convoys. The map needs more targets. The creation of AI controlled coastal convoys, made up of smaller lightly armed merchant vessels escorted by a few destroyers and Flakships.
These would run on the German side in the Scheldt Esctuary, Holland and Bay of Biscay area, and for the Allies, through the English channel between Portsmouth and London, and London and Norwich area.
These convoys could be adaptions of the existing TF`s with perhaps two destroyers and the remainder of the force being merchant vessels.
These Coastal convoys would make good targets for both aircraft and Naval forces including PT Boats.
#7 You need victory conditions:
Simple ones could be for the Allies to take Paris, or the Germans to drive the Allied Bridgehead back into the sea. The Allies should be able to make additional landings with LVT forces at other places along the coast.
All of the existing Allied and German aircraft could be used with this type of map with a setting of August `44. However, there should be restrictions on the use of Tempests and FW190D`s. Tempests should be prohibited from using drop tanks and limited to bases in England. (They were based there to combat the V1 raids) They should also be restricted by a perk system or by limited numbers available per day. FW190D`s should be limited by numbers or a perk system too.
There are several other good maps which would work for a HA. The Mediterranean map is one. If the scenario was set to July `43 with the Allies just having landed in Sicily, then you would have a good selection of aircraft available, (including the Italians) and a small land front, (Sicily) and airfields relatively close together. (Malta and Sicily) You would also have Naval task forces for both sides. (Italian and British) Planes would be :
Spit V, IX
Seafire
P-47D11
P-38L (well, P-38H actually, but gotta make P-38 guys happy)
B-26
B-17
Lancaster
TBM
F6F
DC-3
109F4
109G2
109G6
190A5
190F
JU88
MC202
MC205
TBM (Stuka Substitute with loadout restricted to 1 500 kg bomb, no torpedos)
DC-3 (Ju-52 sub)
All Vehicles
The Phillipines map would also work in an HA, although the plane selection is not as good.
A6M5
KI-61
NiK2
JU88 (Japanese medium sub)
TBM (Japanese torpedo sub)
DC-3 (Japanese had identical plane)
P-38L
P-47D-25
P-47D-30
D-Hog
TBM
F6F
B-26
B-17
DC-3
All vehicles
Another fun map would be the Leningrad/Baltic front in `43 with planes available being :
LA-5
Spit V
Spit IX
B-26
IL-2
DC-3
109F4
109G2
109G6
190A5
JU88
TBM (Stuka Sub)
DC-3 (Ju-52 sub)
All Vehicles
With a few small changes, a HA could become the place of preference for all AH flyers.
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Originally posted by Buzzbait:
With a few small changes, a HA could become the place of preference for all AH flyers.
Great ideas, but you might take flak from the above assumption. ;)
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Well if we are going to be historical than there should be night. And if pilots are off duty we should model drinking and women in the Arena! These are new suggestions but it may provide the "Real Answer" of what is really needed to make the HA succeed! Ask "Fatty" he'll stear ya right! :D
Thunder
[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Thunder ]
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I believe HTC has already stated that terrains and plane sets in the CA will change periodically.
I haven't tried the CA yet, but from my limited experience in the WB HA, one of the most critical issues is side balancing. I agree with the suggestion that side switching time limitation needs to be drastically reduced. Then, it's up to the players to either make it fun, or go for the easy gang bang kills.
[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: popeye ]
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Yeah! I want my british nurses!
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Buzzbait,
Do you play AH currently? Or have you beyond a two week trial a few months ago?
AKDejaVu
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S! DV
Funny how the cheerleaders always jump all over any serious suggestions.
Perhaps considering the proposed ideas might be a better solution.
Of course the fact that I don`t play it makes me inelegible to comment, right?
And you are right, I don`t subscribe. Although I go through spells of flying in HTH when I want to see how the product has improved.
I have flown in all the Flight Sims on the market, both Boxed and Online. I flew in the original AH Beta, and flew a two week period last year.
My opinion of AH remains the same:
Superb aircraft modelling
Very limited World War II Simulation
I`d subscribe if I thought I was actually going to get something resembling a HA. What has been put up now is not in my opinion a real HA.
For that reason I made my suggestions.
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Buzzbait,
Your views on the game asside...
With a few small changes, a HA could become the place of preference for all AH flyers.
Please, explain to me how you are even remotely qualified to make this statement.
AKDejaVu
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1 think i don't like at all is in-flight start ..
else there's good suggestions.
DW6
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S! DV
I can`t tell anyone how to fly or where.
But if the HA is challenging and fun, then I think people will fly there. That is the point of my suggestions.
As far as being qualified? Last time I looked this board wasn`t being censored to reflect a particular point of view.
Unless you think that is your role... ;)
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you are entitled to your opinion. Just don't come of as if it is on behalf of this community.
You do not fly with this community. You do not know this community. You think that reading this bbs makes you part of it. You are wrong. This bbs is not the AH community.
Your proposals are generic "more realism means more customers" suggestions. Some will like them, some will not. That's why there are two arenas. They aren't trying to apease everyone with one solution... that's just not possible.
AKDejaVu
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I strongly believe that an effort towards a 1941-42 a/c planeset will bring fresh air, *interesting* scenarios and many (old) players (back). The North-African and the Russian theatres are still uncovered by any big online sims. Miopia?
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Very intresting buzzbait. I don't subscribe because the MA is not for me. During my 2wk trail i didn't get a chance to play the historical scenarios so i don't know how they go, and im not willing to spend 30$ to find out. But if HTC makes a HA something like buzzbait described i would pay for that.
What does HTC think about this?
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S! DV
Maybe you better go back and re-read my initial post. I quote myself:
"...here is my analysis of what is needed for a HA,"
Notice I said MY analysis. Not yours, or Animal`s or Laz`s or anybody else`s.
The post was my point of view. That`s all. No where did I claim to be speaking for the community.
On the other hand, you seem to be reserving that perogative for yourself.
Anytime someone posts anything on these Bulletin boards which proposes any kind of change, or which is critical of the way the Sim is structured, you instantly stomp on them. Your response comes down to the same thing everytime:
`The Sim is perfect`
`Nothing needs to be changed`
`Shutup and wait for what HTC comes up with next`
It seems you have appointed yourself final arbitor of what is acceptable for the community.
What do they say about people in glass houses throwing stones? ;)
As far as knowing this community:
I fly online or have flown online in EAW, WWII Fighters, Red Baron, Warbirds, AW, AH, CFS, FA etc.
All these communities are basically the same. You have your dedicated `furballers`, your `historical buffs`, `bomber guys`, etc. etc.
In fact a lot of the guys in one Sim are the same as in the next. Online flyers are actually not that big of a community.
I have been around long enough that I can get a pretty good sense of the atmosphere online.
But that is not the point. As I said above, I`m venturing my own opinion. Not speaking for everyone.
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All of us fly these Sims for fun.
If we are not having fun, we stop.
We are prepared to deal with some restrictions to that fun in the interests of historicity, but there is a limit.
The only time you take credit is when you are telling HTC (whom you refer to as "you") what to do to make the arena more apealing to "we".
That is speaking on behalf of "we".
You have an idea of what you feel the main arena should be. You decided to tell HTC very specifically what they need to do to make you happy. It has nothing to do with we.
AKDejaVu
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Why don't you try practicing what you preach AKDjV?
Just don't come of as if it is on behalf of this community.
Next time try... just don't come off as if it is on behalf of ME.
You do not know this community.
And you do AKDjV? please tell me what it takes to know a community.
This bbs is not the AH community.
Good one mind telling me where's it's at? What is it that YOU think qualifies something as being the AH community. Remember don't speak for me just tell me where YOU think it's at. And if you do I hope you understand it's your opinion and it prolly won't mean crap to anybody here.
They aren't trying to apease everyone with one solution... that's just not possible.
Hmmm, and what makes you qualified to speak for 'they'. Speak for yourself, you know, that requirement you demand of everyone else?
From a member of the AH community
Btw buzzbait nice ideas hope to see some of them take root. :)
[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Professor Fate ]
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Ah.. welcome to the discussion proffesor fate.
Next time try... just don't come off as if it is on behalf of ME.
Touche'. But at least I participate in this game. I log on and fight in the arenas that buzzbait is suggesting be changed. He does not.
I don't sit back and pretend to know what everyone in another arena wants. I don't sit back and think looking in the window is the same as being in the party.
And you do AKDjV? please tell me what it takes to know a community.
Experience. Experience. Experience. You have a little. Buzzbait has virtually none.
I'm sorry, but someone who has not even flown in the arena he is critiquing is offering advice on improvements... no... not advice... he is telling HTC exactly what they need to do to be successful.. afterall.. he has alot of experience playing flight sims. Of course, very little playing this sim.
Good one mind telling me where's it's at? What is it that YOU think qualifies something as being the AH community. Remember don't speak for me just tell me where YOU think it's at. And if you do I hope you understand it's your opinion and it prolly won't mean crap to anybody here.
EXACTLY. That is what makes it my oppinion dickhead.
That is what makes my intrusion into this thread my oppinion. It is my opinion that this poster doesn't know toejam about this game except for what he has glommed here on the bbs. He is very good at posting what he thinks people want to read here.
It is my oppinion that you are one of the lemmings that hops on the "hey this is just what we wanted to hear" boat without really considering what is actually being said in the post because your so impressed by how well it was written.
Yeah buzzbait... this one is almost as good as the "I'm just totally new but think you should make these radical changes because they are so obvious" and "though I've never flown the chog because I think it is a dweeb plane, I believe it is overmodeled".
Yep... read the bbs long enough and you think you are sooo in tune with everything.
Of course, read the bbs long enough and you begin to spot someone that's full of toejam from a mile away.
Saw buzzbait coming from 2 miles away. You'll see it eventually yourself mr fate.. though you'll probably not be quite as vocal about it as I tend to be.
Hmmm, and what makes you qualified to speak for 'they'. Speak for yourself, you know, that requirement you demand of everyone else?
I'm not speaking for "they". They have two seperate arenas. They have spoken for themselves. Open your eyes bud.
AKDejaVu
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S! DV
This is getting funnier. :)
Now I remember. You were the guy who the first time I posted here, accused me of being Fishu, or someone else.
Man you should start offering paranoia classes. You'd do very well with UFO crowd.
I am pleased to say I do not feel the need to retract anything I've posted on this board. :D
I'm gonna leave the rest of this thread to you DV, you're digging yourself a deeper hole than I ever could.
By the way, I hear you're a pretty decent flyer... Or is that just more of the usual bull that is on these boards and nothing to do with what the community really thinks...
;)
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No buzzbait.. it wasn't the first time you'd posted. You even admitted that later.
You just claimed it was.
And that post smelled identical to this one. Nothing a little air freshener won't clear up though buzzbait.
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fishus english is very distinct
i could mark his words irregardless of handle easily just like i marked tussin as being guntard 3 days ago :)
i was wrong about fester tho. i thought he was nath, but he wasnt.
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Fatty keep your British nurse.I want a French nurse! Make that two. :cool:
Frodo
[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Frodo ]
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LOL DV I remember when you joined AH, I had been a member of the community since beta and you were a NEWBIE, now you come off as some kind of "old vet" who knows all, of course I haven't been a member of the "community" by your terms since I logged off in May but I still "lurk" around on the bbs and have a HTH account. I think you need to tone down your self rightous self and let some of these guys make their suggestions who knows maybe just maybe Dale will like some of em.
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Buzz,
Some very good observations and suggestions in your post!
DjV,
I seem to remember that your are always right, but I never could have guessed that you are really SO FULL of yourself :eek: ....having a bad day eh?
Do you think that posting in every thread makes you qualified to decide what people can or cannot say? You are the "AH community" spirit and police? Get Real!!
Anyone participating in this bbs and in AH in any form (even H2h) is just as good "community" member as YOU are and their opinions are just as valuable... quite often far more valuable.
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anyone else think that Deja qualifies as:
a Royal (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame20.html)
(http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Roayls.jpg)
or is he...
Arebel Leader (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame73.html)
(http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Rebel.jpg)
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yeah.. you have me pegged bigjim. I didn't come into the game until mid beta-2. :rolleyes: I really came off as an old vet too. I mean.. they way I... er... wait... how was it I came off as an old vet when I was a newbie to the game?
As far as them making suggestions. If you or anyone else might notice... THE SUGGESTIONS WERE MADE. If HTC likes them, then fine. Unless I have some magical power to erase the statements in the first place that I'm missing here?
But then, I've never claimed to have been here from the start. I just claim to have been playing the game. Once again.. that is a far site better than the original poster.
I don't feel it is my position to be king of anything. I don't feel I need to have some kind of following on this board. I do feel that if someone posts something like what was posted here, he should have some background with the game outside of a two week trial prior to 1.04 being released. And before they start citing the shortfalls of an arena.. THEY HAD BETTER WELL HAVE PLAYED IN THAT ARENA.
AKDejaVu
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hmmmmm what part of "now" didn't you understand DV LOL
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Ah.. gotcha bigjim.
Let me ask you this question since you haven't played since may:
What do you think of the new arena?
AKDejaVu
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Anyone know how to capture streaming audio *.ram files?
Would like to know.
-SW
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didnt you forgot to set Yaks in Baltic tarain ?
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"INFLIGHT STARTS"
This is too gamey in MY OPINION (special note to DJVU ;) ).
The climbout and forming up are the great and a lot of fun. And should be a part of every HA type of environmwnt.
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Hm, i sort of figure Buzzbait a part of the community.
He plays the game, has the same weird WWII fascination as the rest of us and is a very pleasant person to speak to.
He doesn't fly in the MA that's true, but I don't see that as being necessarily the biggest criteron.
Definitions differ it seems. To each his own :)
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Santa,
Flying in the MA is not a criterion for anything other than criticizing the MA. The same applies to the CA.
AKDejaVu
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Since I am not flying in the MA and haven't got a "paying" account at the moment I have NO comment on the new "arena". I am sure there will be more feed back later from which I can draw some conclusions, and which ever way it goes it does seem that HTC is trying to please the crowd with some new type of action
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Very well said bigjim.
No experience with the arena... no comment on it.
Learn more about it... form an oppinion.
AKDejaVu
Everything I needed to know about AH I learned from the bbs.
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Deja... what is going on with you? you seem to have sumthing up your butt about this post.
You do always bash in some form or another a suggested idea, whether its a new idea or somehting that has alerady been mentioned.
Leave it alone, I think that any Idea added is good for HTC. It seems that your attitude is summed up pretty accuratly above
`The Sim is perfect`
`Nothing needs to be changed`
`Shutup and wait for what HTC comes up with next`
I think Aces is ever evolving, and Anyone that has either been playing since beta 1, or even up to a mere 2 days during the first 2week trial has the RIGHT and ability to make suggestions. TIME has nothing to do with it.
Time only helps, because the newbie would have a better understand of what has/hasnt already been suggested.
Stop your bashing, its getting old...
-out
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No one knows how to capture streaming media? It's video/audio *.ram file type... I just want to get it onto a local file on my HDD to burn to CD to give to someone.
Any programs or anything I can use?
Any help would be appreciated.
-SW
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Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
Stop your bashing, its getting old...
Amen :rolleyes:
Buzzbait :D
Great post and some excellent ideas. S!
Sent you a private post with other comments.
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Wulf,.... Are you talking about saving the file that you have playing from a website when using Realplayer?
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Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
Wulf,.... Are you talking about saving the file that you have playing from a website when using Realplayer?
Sorry took so long, yeah a streaming media file from a website. I think I'm going to need a program, I just need advice on which one to use if you know.
Thanks!
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Sorry took so long, yeah a streaming media file from a website. I think I'm going to need a program, I just need advice on which one to use if you know.
Thanks!
-SW
Have you tried to look in your IE temporary folder ? perhaps is the file present in it ...
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Since it's a real player file, I think it would use one of real player's temp folders.
But the problem is, with streaming media it doesn't actually go to a temporary file.. it never actually touches the hard drive, it's all stored in memory for a split second (long enough to view it and hear the audio) before it vanishes again.
Basically it's like watching TV, the signal is sent once and isn't stored anywhere... I just need a program or some way to make it save to a file.
Thanks!
-SW
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search RA2WAV on the net it's a shareware perhaps doing the work you need :)