Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bloom25 on April 26, 2000, 01:24:00 PM
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Last tour I said that I thought that the F4u-1c's k/d would drop with the inclusion of ground vehicles. Today I decided to test my theory.
Since the scores from Tour 2 do not compare directly to Tour 1, and also ground vehicle kills unfairly boost the k/d scores, here is my method of comparison: I used the k/d versus all available fighter types present in both tour 1 and tour 2. The planes I used in the comparison are: p51d, all 109s, 190, c205, N1k, La5, both spits, p38l, f4u-1d. I did not include bombers.
Here was my hypothesis: The inclusion of ground vehicles would lower the normal operating altitude of the f4u-1c. As a result its k/d would be significantly lower this tour. In addition, the revised acks would make vulching a little bit harder, compared to last tour. A drop of .5 k/d would not be unexpected.
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The results:
Tour 2: K/D using my above method was 1.9616.
Tour 3: K/D using the same method is currently 1.6213.
The total kills by the f4u-1c are also down quite a bit.
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It seems that the inclusion of ground vehicles and the revision of acks did significantly lower the k/d of the f4u-1c. To me a .3403 drop is significant, but not quite what I expected.
I'm curious to see how the Typhoon is doing, as it is very comparable to the f4u-1c. I'm sure if it was included in the stats the k/d of the f4u-1c would be slightly lower than the 1.6213 I reported above. (My guess would be around 1.6.)
In conclusion the f4u-1c is still the top k/d fighter in the set, but its k/d has dropped significantly as compared to last tour.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Hopefully this will reduce the over-modeled whinage too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hehe, don't take this post as a whine. I personally enjoy having the f4u-1c in the set. It was not my intention, with this post, to provide a reason as to whether or not the plane should stay.
Personally I enjoy the f4u-1c. It is fun to fly, and when you have the advantage IMO it is about the easiest plane to kill. ( Right now, in planes with scores available, I have 5 kills to 2 deaths versus the 1c. Including vehicles I'm 8 to 5.) I also fly this plane myself at times. I flew it a lot last tour, but this tour I've mainly flown the c205. IMO the 205 is superior to the f4u-1c for nearly everything but bomber & vehicle hunting.
I posted the above just as an interesting bit of information.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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A lot of that is me, I've been on quite the suicide run lately. In fact avoiding a few fights so that I may headon the building of my choice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS (http://fdb.50megs.com)
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Originally posted by Torque:
Hopefully this will reduce the over-modeled whinage too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would doubt it, the question is do you like your plane more than you hate the complaints about it...I think that the ideal would be to axe the thing so we could listen to you whine about something other then whining.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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IMO Typhoon will never replace cannon Hog in its killer role. The Tiffie has just too vicious flight characteristics to be flown with success regularly. IMO, it is one of the worst AH planes.
Ask yourself how often do you see a Typhoon in the arena ?
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I feel I havent been doing my part to help. I got interested in a new toy (FW) this tour. Next tour, Ill try to fly it more FWIW.
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Torque, I don't think the whinage was due to the F4u-1C being overmodeled, I think the consensus was the CANNONS seem to be a bit O/M'd. I know that with the same gun package on the 190 that I don't do nearly as well as I do with the F4U-1C gun package. Strickly IMO.
PYRO: FYI: I now have gun footage of a F4U-1C shooting at D1.1 out with damage occuring to my left aileron. If you want me to send it to you, let me know, I turned film on shortly after the chase began, so its a short tape.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-26-2000).]
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Hristo has it right. I was one of the people that expected the Tiffy to do really well, but with its really squirelly trim characteristics, I find it almost useless.
Ripsnot the cannon package of the -1C is not the same as the package on the 190. The Hispano is much different than the Mauser.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Thanks Verm, I understand that completely, just seems that those 1C's have a heck of a punch, you're right, I shouldn't compare them, however, I have nothing to compare it to since I have never fired either in real life. The 1C's punch in virtual reality seems twice the punch of the 190's.
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<<I'm curious to see how the Typhoon is doing, as it is very comparable to the f4u-1c>>
IMHO the Tiffy can't hold a candle to the Hog-C, either in 1 v 1 or as a vulcher/strafer. It bleeds e like a stuck pig, turns like a tank, and doesn't carry enough ammo for a really long vulchfest.
In air-to-air it is the easiest kill in the game except for the C-47. It's damn fun to fly though.
ra
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Drip I mean Rip the rate of fire is higher on the F4u-1c and that is the most difference of the two cannons. More lead equals more damage.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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I have to say this about these four-hispano type aircraft: they are ridiculously easy to to score HO kills in. I flew the Tiffie about two weeks ago and got involved in a tussle by A25. Finding myself merging with a slightly higher P-38 I decided to damn the torps, and headed straight in! The P-38 driver was equally reckless, and we merged, head-on. At about 1.1k I opened up with the four hispanos, just as the P-38 responded in kind. By 800m the P-38 had lost its left wing and was headed down. I think I took a few inconsequential hits.
Just about every F4U I've merged with has opened up on me at merge, rather than E-fight. And more times than I care to remember my aircraft has been sent downward before ever even passing a merging F4U. If the F4U-C has the best k/d ratio it's because of the HO, above all else.
Now, that's not a bad thing, per se, but it does lack a certain finesse? In the final equation, though, it's all about kills, and the F4U-C is one efficient killing machine. Basically, point and click.
note: some maneuver required.
Ripsnort: Also be aware that a Hispano shell is 130g, whereas the MG-151 is a mere 90g.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 04-27-2000).]
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I wonder how the P-47 will do when it arives (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Plus, the F4U-1C's cone of fire for the cannons.
Which seems to be about 80 degrees!
You get anywhere within 40 degrees of the nose and you're a dead bird.
I know it is not that bad, but it just seems that way sometimes! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-27-2000).]
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Say what you want guys,
But I fly Typhoon on almost all of my bombing missions and given everything organized correctly it's a very good aircraft for what it's job. The only real weakness of Typhoon that I see is how long it takes for it to get to cruising speed. But once it accelerates to cruising speed,it's a beautiful plane to fly in.
As for the aerial fighting, I can disengage from fight at will as almost no plane will catch up with me(done this trick before, so I know it's possible, even when you have planes diving on you) and if I have to merge, I try to make it all simple - HO and disengage.
Now gimme me my SpitXIV and Tempest and I'll be the happiest guy alive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
mx22
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Leonid: i'm flying the F4U-1D ONLY this tour .. and found myselfe firing on almost ANY merge or pass that has at least a minimum hit possibility .. this is due to the fact that you are NEVER really CO -E and without a little advantage the HOG better turns and runs .. so i'll take any shot that is presented to me, even more so in the D as the C as it's cal 050's need more time on target to bring somebody down (never wast a pass..)
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(http://members.aon.at/duckwing6/dw601.gif)
Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
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Except for in extreme circumstances I will avoid the direct HO. On the other hand when I fly planes like the 205, 109, p51, and I have an E advantage I will often fire a few shots at the merge. My intention isn't to hit the other plane, but to make him begin to jink, dive, barrel roll etc. The reason is that 80% of those that fly here will try a split s or some other E burning manuver the second they see or hear bullets. This just makes the rest of the fight much easier. (Note: I'm talking about situations where the other guy can't actually get his nose up to hit you, but on the other hand you can't turn into his 6 without burning up your E advantage.) I find the p51 and c205 to be especially good at doing this. In rare cases I've even dewinged the other plane with a lucky 1/2 second burst. I really like to do this against spits. They almost always try for the ho, followed by a flat turn to your 6 as you go by. If I fire a few shots at them, they almost always dive to the deck, making it easier for me to turn onto their 6.
I've tried this with the hog c as well, but I find that the bullets drop too much to consistantly hit at around the 800 yds that I usually fire at. (If you do hit though ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
Honestly I don't know why I posted this under this thread. Maybe I just wanted to know how the rest of you handle situations where you have a small alt advantage (i.e. 3k) on a front 1/4 pass. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Hmmm,
think i had a 3k alt advantage once (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...actually given alt & E i'll usually dive down to co-alt...then pull to vertical early..If your right about relative E state you'll get a nice rope as con tries to jump on your "early" move..of course one in awhile a smart pilot will realize he's neg E and split-s on your break...worst case I've maxed out my alt and go hunting again.