Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Urchin on August 16, 2002, 01:27:52 AM
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Ok, this is probably going to be pretty long. I worked at a large retail store until recently (this past Monday to be exact). When I got back from vacation (the Con and then Florida), I was called into the managers office and fired for 'gross misconduct'. Let me give the background and see what you think. I'm leaving individual names out, so it may get a little unwieldy. I'm also paraphrasing much of the conversation, because while I remember the gist of the conversation I don't remember the exact words.
This incident happened Wednesday night (July 31st).
Ok, here goes. Payday is on Thursday, every other week. Since I was flying out of town Thursday morning (to attend the Con) I asked my manager (and there are several, each in charge of different areas of the store) if I could pick up my paycheck Wednesday night (so I could drop it off on the way to the airport and have some spending money for my trip). He replied "Sure, I'll take care of it for you". The initial request was made several days before Wednesday. Wednesday morning I asked my manager if he had in fact 'taken care of it for me'. He replied that he had not, but that he would before he left for the day.
I took my lunch break at 4 pm, and I went to the payroll office. I asked the payroll girl if my manager had informed her that I could pick up my check today instead of tommorrow (which is the normal day to pick up your check). Her reply was -
"No, I'm not giving you your check today, you have to wait until tommorrow".
I then said "But my manager said I could pick my check up today"
"If your manager wants you to have your check, he can come in here and get it himself and give it to you, I'm not going to"
"But my manager went home, and I'm flying out of town tommorrow morning to go on vacation."
"I don't care, I'm not giving you your check today."
At this point I called it quits and went to find another manager. I asked her if my manager had said anything to HER about me being allowed to pick up my check early. Her reply was "No he didn't, but if he said you can get it early then you can". A little relieved, I went to go eat lunch and smoke a cigerrette before heading back to work.
Later, on a break, I walked past the payroll office again. I decided I'd ask the clerk about my check again, since the manager on duty had now said it was OK for me to get my check. She had the door propped open (they have a mag-locked door that you need the combination to open) and was chatting with another female employee. I walked up to them and stood waiting for them to finish their conversation so that I could ask about my check. The payroll clerk would have none of that however, and a few seconds after I walked up she snapped-
"What do YOU want?" at me.
I replied "I want to talk to you about my check again".
At this point she had apparently had enough, and she shouted (yes, shouted) -
"I'm not starting this tonight! I've got to put up with this Thursday and Friday, and I'm not doing it tonight!"
Apparently she has some sort of problem with handing out checks, a rather integral part of her job function.
At this point I did a bad thing. I finally lost my temper. I said back (in a calm and controlled voice, mind you- I NEVER raised my voice throughout this conversation) *POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, COVER YOUR KIDDIES EYES*
"Look, I know you don't give a toejam about me or why I need my check, but I've asked two different managers and they both said it was OK, so why don't you give me my check?"
Now, that is what I remember saying. According to the payroll clerk, I may have thrown in the F-word a couple times to (I do tend to use that as a descriptive adjective when I'm pissed off, i.e. 'my sweet check", etc.).
Never did I, in my opinion, cuss AT her (i.e you stupid sweet squeak, etc.).
I honestly don't remember what she said next, but it was something along the lines of "no, I'm not giving you your check". At that point she slammed the door and the conversation was over.
I went back to work, and when my shift was up (at 8 p.m.) I went to the manager on duty and told her that I needed her to get me my check, since the payroll clerk refused to do it. She was busy, so I had to wait until she got done. The new manager came walking out of the office and informed me that I had deeply offended the payroll clerk with my use of 'vulgar language' and that I would get a talking-to from my manager when I came back from vacation. Since I was still fed up in general, I basically let her know that I didn't give a rat's bellybutton what she had to say, all I wanted to do was pick up my check and leave, thank you very much. Finally, the manager on duty came and got my check, and I left. I was informed by the other manager (the new one) that using vulgar language was a "terminatable offense" (at least I think that was what she said).
So, when I got back, the 'new manager' (the same one that tried to give me a dressing down Wednesday night) called me into the office at the end of my shift and informed me that I was being 'terminated as a result of my actions on Wednesday night".
Sure enough, there IS a rule against using foul language in the "Handbook" (basically the book that says all the toejam they can fire you for, which is pretty much anything). Of course, there is also a rule against treating co-workers with disrespect- but I guess that part doesn't apply in my situation. I was informed that I could talk to the store manager today (when she got back from vacation) and ask her to 'review' the situation.
I spent most of the day hanging around my place of former employment, talking with my former co-workers, while waiting for her to get done with whatever she was doing (which was a lot of stuff, I was pretty far down on the priority list). When we had our little discussion, I brought up the fact that yes, of course I was angry, and that I had lost my temper- from my point of view I'd had two managers lie outright to me in saying that they'd take care of it, and one snotty little payroll clerk excercising what little power she had in life just for toejams and giggles. I still don't think I did anything wrong. When I brought up the fact that the clerk had in fact raised her voice before I did any cussing, she explained that they are two totally different things, and that I had creating an 'uncomfortable working environment' for the poor payroll clerk. She actually said that had I merely started yelling (without using foul language I presume) they would have no cause for terminating me. She also said that I should have been 'nicer' to the poor clerk- and I was quite courteous up until the point the clerk started yelling. I guess thats just a personal failing though.
She did say she would 'review' the case, but she also said they had written documents stating that I cussed the poor payroll clerk out, so I'm pretty sure that she has made up her mind already.
I guess I've got two questions for anyone that has actually read all this through-
1. Do you think I was justified in using 'foul language'? If not, do you believe the manager was justified in firing me, or do you think something else would have been more appropriate?
2. If you have any experience in hiring people, answer this question for me. If I list them as a reference (and I'll pretty much have to since I've been working there for a year- if I left a year blank in my employment history I'm pretty sure eyebrows would be raised), it is my understanding that the potential employer only asks a few questions. One of these questions is "Why is XXX no longer employed at YYYYY?" I gather the answer to that question would be "Oh, we fired him for 'gross misconduct'". As a potential employer, would you even bother to find out what my side of the story is, or would I be immediately written off as a potential employee?
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I would have told her after she yelled at you.."Look,my manager said you were "abreast" of the situation"...
Sorry you got the shaft..Hope it works out for you bro..
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Originally posted by SirLoin
I would have told her after she yelled at you.."Look,my manager said you were "abreast" of the situation"...
Sorry you got the shaft..Hope it works out for you bro..
Well, I'm military... and foul language while considered "unprofessional", it's usually not an issue unless some dope decides to make an issue of it.. even then is generally not considered a make or break part of the deal. The deal here is, it's a retail store, and retail stores don't give one iota of a toejam whether you work there or not... it's all about filling a slot and making a buck. (My wife managed a "Bugle Boy" for a couple of years so... while I'm not speaking from "hands on" experience... I did learn allot about this garbage). At the end of the day.. sounds to me like they are (were) already looking for an excuse to "get rid of you". Most of these types of stores do not like legal action... they fear it, let alone threat of one. "Bugle Boy" stores won't even (EVER as a rule) give you a bad reference because they have had thier tulips handed to them in several lawsuites for saying bad things about former employees. You were given the run around by incompetent management (these folks have shown thier true colors)... you have a case. If I were you... I'd get a lawyer and sue thier pants off, you'll probably win. It would be especially grand if this "handbook" didn't explicity refer to foul language as a terminable offense (even if it does, it's likely to be referring to the use of foul language in the presence of customers, not management)
Tumor
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Well, I pretty much came to the conclusion that they used it as an excuse to fire me on my own, bud :). I wasn't a very popular fellow with the management, because I don't grovel enough to suit them. As far as getting a lawyer, I'm not going to do that.
I don't think they need to talk bad about me- all they have to say is 'XXX was fired for 'gross misconduct'- that looks bad enough I think.
I'll have to find a copy of that handbook to see if cussing is listed as a 'terminable offense'. I'm not sure if it is, and I didn't have one handy when I was in their office. It doesn't really make a difference though, since I've already been fired. I was really just curious to see what y'all thought about it, and to see if anyone knows how this will affect my chances of getting a job somewhere else.
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What a squeak.:mad:
Hope you settle this soon.
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fool ...don't you know how to play the game? you should always make the other person look bad , not you, you must control the situation , not let it control you ...oh well , your young , you will learn
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I think it totally sucks and naming the store so we all know where to boycott in future would be a start.
I dont know what the US laws are but they sound similar to the UK where's it's illegal to give a bad reference.......a previous employer could refuse to give a reference though, which says enough to any prospective employer to lose you any chance of getting the job. Typically, people dont want to hear about disputes and court battles with previous employers.
Depending on how long you worked there and how big a gap in your resume it would be to fill in.....it may be worth leaving the job off and making sure future employers simply dont find out and have no cause to ask the question "Why did you leave your last position?"......pretend you've been self employed or went to Europe or something. Of course, I dont know how easy it would be for an employer to check with the IRS.....in Europe it's dead easy to make up a fantasy resume unless you're applying for anything in the civil service.
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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Yes tell us what store this is.
But anyway this is clearly a case where you were fired because you argued with a legaly superior class of person. You a male are not allowed to argue with women in an agressive manner in a wrkplace, so you were fired. If you feel you have nothing to live for it might be a good idea to go in there and shoot up the place, BUT I AM NOT TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THAT AT ALL. :D
Go git em tiger!
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GR, is a wize man. Dont mess with woman at work. Period. Either they are nice or they are real squeakes. They operate under a different code than man vs man and they will irritate the crap out of you hour upon hour if they dont like you. Be warned youngsters.
:D
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See if you can get a letter of recommendation and move along.
An operation this chicken toejam isn't worth working for.
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Sounds like a fun place to work Urchin.:(
Maybe the termination is a blessing in disguise for you. I sure wouldn't want to stay there. After working all week, you had to work even more to get your dadgummed pay check.
I don't know what to say, as far as the job reference concern goes. If you think it may be a problem in the future, then I would at least have a lawyer write a letter on my behalf to the store owner/s, letting them know about the situation, as a matter of record. Otherwise, I would let it go, and not worry about it...
Really sorry to hear about that Urchin. Good luck, and keep looking up.
Les
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Dunno bout the US but that would be a case for personal grievance here. If the pay clerk went out of way to prevent you getting your paycheck and did not co-operate, then if she yelled at you first you could claim YOU took offense at this.
Uhmmm, aren't sposed to sue at the drop of a hat over there?
Seriously, if you're that concerned, talk to a lawyer . Otherwise just walk away.
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Urchin....you hated that job. Take it as a blessing in disguise and move on man. Sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles my friend, and I personally wouldn't waste my time or effort to fight over losing a job like that. Take this opportunity to find a way to put that degree you got to work!
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Sorry- I've had you lose it on me before. In that case you couldn't walk away and let things go. Maybe that colors my opinion a bit, but I have a feeling you contributed quite a bit to this mess. Having been a supervisor before, I can't say that I would have done a whole lot different if you put me in that place.
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Urchin,
You're better off without them. You can do better and deserve better. Your not as screwed at finding a job as you fear (your a little screwed, but not completely).
Hit the pavement and find a small business to work for. One that's small enough for your contributions to be noticed and appreciated.
Good luck!
eskimo
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I smell lawsuit!
You can hire a lawyer who will work on the basis that he won't get paid unless YOU get a settlement. Then set that pitbull loose dude!
Get yourself another job and then wait until the check arrives. Any large employer will settle such cases out of court my man, just to avoid any negaive publicity.
Come on...sue the bums...it's the American Way.
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Few years ago things weren't going the way I planned in company I work for and I had a nice fight with boss of the another section (he was the one who ruined my plans).
I shouted him like mad in his office and his co-worker was there too.
That co-worker told me later that after I stormed out from the office my boss said "Hehe, Good guy".
6 month later he become our boss too and when he came he asked me to come to visit him in his office. My thoughs were "dam I'm in deep watermelon now..." and I was more than stunned when he did ask me to be his "right hand" and take care one of our shifts :D
It can look bad first but there's also possibility it turns to a blessing :)
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Most people go through their entire lives working for the man, answering at his beck n call and feeling that they are never in control of their own working existance.
You work in Retail which is a notoriously high staff turnover occupation and one where jobs in that industry can be a dime a dozen and where loyalty is often an expected one way street.
The bottom line is that they dicked you around. You stood up for yourself after showing great restraint and can walk out of the job knowing you didnt take their crap laying down.
It cost you the job. Its not the end of the world. Pick up a crappy job till you get something better. Many people say their are no jobs about whilst employers are screaming for employees. It comes down to what people themselves are prepared to do. Many write off less glamourous occupations cause they wouldnt want to tell anyone what they are doing for a living. Well most of us have done one at least at some point in our lives.
Walk out with your head held high. If you have a Better Business or Employee Protection agency in your area, report the incident to them to follow up and take action. And take the first thing that swings your way until something better shows up for the grabbing.
Dont go through life taking everyones crap. At the end of the day, if you can still hold your head up high, Your a success.
And the boys above are correct. Women in leading positions or positions of authority always have at least one capital squeak in their ranks. That goes worldwide and is a male recognised occupational health hazard.
If you cant screw them, avoid them. Theres your choices :)
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Urchin, call your state employment or attourney general and ask them what you can do...this sounds like an excuse to fire you as you said. don't let them get off so easy.
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Time for a banana or a potato in the tailpipe :)
fuzeman
and remember... banana's come in bunches :D
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Talk to a Labor Attorney and see what he/she say's.
Sounds like you got screwed to me.
If you had raised your voice to a male you'd still have your job, woman have more rights than they realize in the work place (more than men). IMHO
The woman that do realize they have the upper hand in the workplace are the ones I cannot stand and are the ones you need to watch your back with at ALL times.
Short story...
A friend of mine was let go by his female boss for a similar offense; the female HR directory refused him an exit interview (he wanted his side of the story told). The company also refused to pay unemployment.
What finally happened:
Unemployment was paid (friend fought it)
Friend was a IT person so he knew his large corporation was not correctly licensed with all the software they used. He turned them into the SPA (Software Piracy Assoc. which is now called something else), Microsoft, Novell, etc.
He later found out the company was fined $500,000 and he collected unemployment for the full allowed time, as he was doing contract work.
I think he got a little revenge and he did it legally! :D
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Originally posted by fuze
Time for a banana or a potato in the tailpipe :)
fuzeman
and remember... banana's come in bunches :D
I'll have to find a copy of that handbook to see if cussing is listed as a 'terminable offense'.
If thisis the case, you are toast - shake it off and move on
In the meantime find a way to hide a dead fish in the payroll squeak's car - door panel/hub cap or somewhere not easily discovered
gl
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1. You fu.. er messed up. Shouldn't have cussed dammit!
2. Your former employer MAY NOT pass on why you were terminated. They can legally give only your dates starting and ending your time there.
3. You need to file for unemployment compensation and let them make the case against you. The employee almost always wins these things. In California it is actually written into the law that an employee cannot be fired for a one time outburst due to anger. (This bit me once as an employer).
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Originally posted by midnight Target
3. You need to file for unemployment compensation and let them make the case against you. The employee almost always wins these things. In California it is actually written into the law that an employee cannot be fired for a one time outburst due to anger. (This bit me once as an employer).
Hold it! After the latest law passed in CA, I could do the following:
A)Buy a gun
B)Shoot my employer
C)The employers widow whom I'm having an affair with can sue the gun manufacturer and score big bucks for a dead hubby.
D)First offense for me, so I'm off scott-free.
Oh dear, I think I'm moving to Kalifornicate!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
D)First offense for me, so I'm off scott-free.
True, you won't be fired for shooting your boss. But once you miss a day or two of work (on account of being in jail for murder) I think they have the green light to 86 you :)
-Sikboy
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Don't sweat it. I suspect you were a cashier, probably there for less than 6 months. Maybe it was your first job. Your choice as to whether you want to include it on your resume' or job application for your next job. At the job interview, when they ask why you left the job, tell them you swore at the payroll clerk because she was emotionally erect and you were under pressure to meet a deadline.
It won't be the first time you'll get fired for some reason or other. I can honestly say that every time I've been fired, it was actually a good thing because it forced me to get out there and find something better.
Brief history:
Fired from a cashier job at a video arcade at the end of summer. Money was missing from the till and I was the cashier. I didn't take it (it was a nominal amount) and money had disappeared from the till a few weeks earlier - same amount, too. They warned us to be on the look-out for till-snatchers (the register was in an unlocked, open kiosk) but that was the extent of their "improved security" steps. I was one of two people on duty on the night in question and the other was the assistant manager. Guess who took the fall. But hey, to be honest, their busy season was over since schools were starting up and they needed to get rid of someone anyway. It was a Summer job and never went on my professional resume. That arcade is out of business now. Their other location closed up, too. I suspect the money was being drained from higher-up the employee ladder, if you know what I mean.
Fired from a law firm for being overworked and undertrained. I was a bankruptcy paralegal and the caseload slipped. At the weekly review meeting with the court trustee my boss made a comment to the client that I'm "an 80%-er. He gets 80% of his work done and the rest falls by the wayside because of his incompetence." I took offense at the remark,and the fact that I had just been insulted in front of the client. I felt he was using me to excuse his own failing. We got into a bicker right there in the conference room. I can't remember if I quit or if I was fired, but in the end it didn't really matter. My short-term solution was to do temp-work, and at the placement interview the lady noticed that I had worked for that certain firm. She asked why I didn't work there and I told her. She said "yeah, we have a hard time finding people willing to work for him. He's gotten a bit of a reputation with our people. He goes through a lot of employees in a short period of time." The firm later dissolved because my ex-boss couldn't find a partner willing to work with him, and his wife later divorced him. And the temp job? I did some of the most diverse jobs and explored possibilities in fields I otherwise would've ignored. The hourly pay sucked and I couldn't make any long-term plans but I had a lot of fun doing the work.
I had also quit another, larger law firm, for pretty much the same reason - high volume, long hours, low pay, jerk of a boss. The lead attorney/small business owner was later hauled up on charges for abusing his position, the bankruptcy court, and violating his license when he purchased the personal assets of one of his clients without reporting it to the court in the bankruptcy petition. Sort of a "don't report it because it'll get sold off to creditors. I'll buy it from you instead, and you won't have to declare it as an asset." He lost his license and sold the business to a couple of junior attorneys in the firm because none of the established firms in the area wanted to touch him.
So, really, don't get depressed over losing a job. Look at it as being free to explore new career paths. Bad people usually get what's coming to them, eventually.
Oh yea, shameless plug:
Bring the Ju-87 Stuka, Ki-84 Hayate, and DB520 to Aces High!
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There's two sides to every story, and we've only heard one.
Consider this- it is quite possible there are ironclad rules in place that state, as a company policy, even one offense of a certain type results in termination, regardless of mitigating circumstances. We certainly have them in place, and I can pretty much tell you that cursing out a fellow employee (or student) is one of them. Next, you can be wrong and right at the same time. A fellow worker was close to being fired here because of the way he reacted to a bad situation. He was right, he had been given a raw deal, but he was wrong in how he tried to cope.
Some fields of work are completely intolerant of outbursts of any kind. You guys are real quick to jump on policemen that have a bad day and take it out on others, or on teachers, or other professions that deal with people, yet you don't seem to think it is possible the same standards should be applied to all workers. The manager here would be in a tough spot, because the book clearly spells out this was a violation. There might have been witnesses that verify the payroll person's claim. It might have happened in front of customers. There may be a history of this behavior. There's a whole lot we don't know.
Honestly, I am curious about the other side of the story, and also curious about other people with management experience view this.
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Urcin, I have worked for big and small companies, before starting my own. Its true what others say, giving a bad or misinformation of an ex employee can lead to unlimited lawsuits. I for one want the truth on resumes, If you came to me and said during interview, sir listen last employer fired me for using foul words when I was upset. then you explained why you were upset and were sorry that you used vulgar language towards the lady. This would go along way in hiring a person to me and many others in HR that I know. It would show you were truthful and learned from this situation.
Your company was left with no choice but to fire you, Once you used vulgar language. If they kept you they would be facing a lawsuit for payroll clerk. Creating an unsafe environment, second if you stayed and touched her or again swore at her, Her lawsuit would be in millions. When we have Hand books written first thing lawyers say is" IF YOU PUT IT IN HAND BOOK YOU MUST IN-FORCE IT EVERY TIME."
And lastly when you ask for a favor you cannot be demanding, as this was a favor from them to pay you in advance. Now this is hard but its truth. I've paid employees in advance 50% get its a favor. after while some think its policy to get checks when they want and would go straight to finance clerk. And they have their orders not to hand out checks in advance. The girl was doing her job, If you think about her instead of you, you'll see she probably has been lied to by others to get checks, and has learned over time to tell employees have manager come get your check. Only employee in your claim that is a little at fault is manager, for he or she let you down by not doing this FAVOR to you.
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You've just learned a very valuable lesson.
Remember these jobs:
NEVER yell at these people. ALWAYS agree with them. ALWAYS sympathize with them and ALWAYS agree that they have a heavier workload than any mortal should have. Face it, most people only really talk to them when they have problems or need something. You can be someone who is being nice and needs something, or someone who is being a toejam (deserved or not) and needs something.
Next time, don't play go-between. If there's a manager that said it should be OK (second manager) then have him talk to the payroll person. Your job is to nod in agreement and then find someone else to do the yelling.
AKDejaVu
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" IF YOU PUT IT IN HAND BOOK YOU MUST IN-FORCE IT EVERY TIME."
This gets sticky only if you don't phrase the rule properly. All of ours say "....... up to and including possible termination".
My guess is that you weren't fired for "cussing at the clerk" as much as you were fired because the clerk felt offended / harrassed / that the work environment had become hostile (maybe with good reason).
Once she complained to a manager that she felt this way, your employers hands were tied. Doing nothing was not an option. Giving you a warning might have exacerbated the situation and the clerk might feel that she is unable to work with you any longer.
The worst thing that could happen is that the clerk would quit her job over this incident claiming that the company didn't "protect her" from a hostile environment. Lawyers would be in a feeding frenzy over that one.
I would have canned ya too Urchin. Sorry.
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As has been noted in this thread already, your employer cannot say anything that would/could prevent you from getting another job. If you find out that they did, even if it was unintentional, you can trounce on them.
Some job applications will ask if you have ever been fired from a job and why. I'm not sure what the ruling is if you refuse to answer, but in your case you can butter-up your story enough so it doesn't sound all that bad. Just never say anything bad about management because that's who you are talking to during an interview :) You might want to research what can and can't be asked during an interview and go in with that knowledge.
If your handbook does mention vulger language as a terminatable offense, then there is not a lot you can do. You might heve been able to drag that payroll chick down with you by lodging a complaint of your own (seems as though she caused you some serious emotional distress, resulting in your unintended reaction), but it sounds like too much time has gone by for that.
Overall, since we only have the one story, it seems as though you are being fired in order to avoid any further action from the clerk. Normally, the longer a person has worked (in excess of 90 days), the more documented (the d-word is important) incidents of misbehavior, etc. it would take before they could get fired, but that in itself is relative. They can always hold up the handbook and point to the rule that you broke. Law in the workplace is really weird and always open to interpretation/loopholes/opinion.
Personally I'd just move on. Find somebody that you worked for/with at that job to write you a letter of recommendation.
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Originally posted by Urchin
"What do YOU want?" at me.
I replied "I want to talk to you about my check again".
At this point she had apparently had enough, and she shouted (yes, shouted) -
"I'm not starting this tonight! I've got to put up with this Thursday and Friday, and I'm not doing it tonight!"
At this point, you go back to any manager, tell them you were told you could pick up your check, you go to pick it up and the payroll person freaked out and started yelling at you and you are not sure what to do about it.
Let them figure it out.
Plus morbid curiousity will prolly get them in there to see whats going on with the payroll person and they can pick up your check while they are in there.
As soon as someone starts to freak out, walk far far away. If you need to talk to someone about it, talk to someone above you and give them the details of the freakage so they have your back.
I have a story too. basically some dood at work decided he wanted to date me, he broke into my car and left me a wierd note which I gave to personnell along with the info that he broke into my car while it was parked at company parking lot..they talked to him that day...he immediately came out to me on the flightline and threatened to kill me which several of my coworkers overheard so I followed him right back into the hanger and told HR about it along with a coworker who confirmed it and they fired him...then he stalked me for a while until I moved (including keying my mustang and slashing the top with a screw driver and hanging out outside my apt etc..)...
my co workers used to make jokes at work saying "don't stand too close to her you might accidentally take the bullet ha ha ha"...cause he was a gun collector.
So if you think it's only women who are freaks at work people..get a clue!
I've got plenty of stories about women and men.
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As somone said, blessing in disguise.
Find something better, and screw them. MAke sure you get unemployment out of them thou.
As for the information they can give out about you, legally they can't say anything bad. What you can do i have one of your friends call as if he was an employeer asking for a reference, and tape the conversation.
If they say anything derogatory, you can sue their tulips off.
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Ski-
No ethical problems with that suggestion?
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Nope, not a least bit.
I've been fired from the company for what was explained to be as a "discuplinary" situation, although one didn't exist. ( They made it up - stuff like "sitting on the floor in the informal meeting in the crowded room on one occasion )
What i knew was that i was hired as a sesonal help, but they weren't willing to admit it. ( In IT industry there isn't sesonal help per se, but this company had a retail related product, hince chirstmas was the time )
I have no doubt that the squeak in charge would do anything to make my life miserable, if she had a chance, including giving me bad reference. This reference could be a flat out made up lie, ( in this case it would be ) and I wouldn't have a chance to defend myself. That's the very root of the issue with references.
Someone can abuse your very livelyhood without proof or responsibility, simply out of spite.
Hince, it's agains the law to do it.
Employeers have a way of communicating this sort of information about a person without saying anything negative. Just talk to your local HR person who checkes references.
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Originally posted by fd ski
I've been fired from the company for what was explained to be as a "discuplinary" situation, although one didn't exist...
What i knew was that i was hired as a sesonal help, but they weren't willing to admit it...
I have no doubt that the squeak in charge would do anything to make my life miserable, if she had a chance, including giving me bad reference.
Hey, this happened to me Too! But it was a summer job at KFC, and I was 16. I wasn't too broken up about it. Screw her if she didn't like my buiscut making speed. :p
-Sikboy
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While here in Louisiana you can get fired for no reason whatsoever (true), there are still laws. Reading what you said you did you are wrong on a lot of counts. Technically, if payday is blah blah blah, then they do not have to issue you a check at all until that day. Secondly, you were confrontational with a female employee....that's just plain bad mojo.
Now, I think you are better off without this job, but first thing I would do would to be to file for unemployment and start pounding the pavement. When interviewing for another job you can either exclude your working at this firm or you can tell them what happened, but that will not reflect well in your favor.
You should check into whether or not you can sue for "hostile workplace", but you better have documentation and dates of incidents.
I really don't have anything against you Urchin, even though we have had verbal crossingof swords within the MA. I think you get hot tempered easily and this problem will happen again unless you can curb that.
As to your current situation, it would probably be best to just drive on and forget about that place. As someone else said, this could be a blessing in disguise. Either way you go man I wish you the best of luck.
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Sorry, Ski, doing something unethical is unethical, no matter what the motivation is.
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1. Do you think I was justified in using 'foul language'? If not, do you believe the manager was justified in firing me, or do you think something else would have been more appropriate?
Sorry to say, but you lost your cool and let here get the best of you. Someone suggested earlier in the thread that you should have walked away and complained to the manager; that was propbaly the best course of action.
2. If you have any experience in hiring people, answer this question for me. If I list them as a reference (and I'll pretty much have to since I've been working there for a year- if I left a year blank in my employment history I'm pretty sure eyebrows would be raised), it is my understanding that the potential employer only asks a few questions. One of these questions is "Why is XXX no longer employed at YYYYY?" I gather the answer to that question would be "Oh, we fired him for 'gross misconduct'". As a potential employer, would you even bother to find out what my side of the story is, or would I be immediately written off as a potential employee?
Depends on the employer. Some will listen to your side of the story, some will assume that you were fired for a good reason and that you are a risk. I was fired from my job last April. (I failed at office politics and got end ran by a subordinate. Long story, not important here.) I just yesterday was hired by a company that listened to my side of the story. End result, I am in a better job now with somewhat better pay and a lot more autonomy, which is what I wanted in the first place. (I hated my old job.) Give it time, this may work out for the best in the end. Or my new job may suck and i don't know it yet. :)
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My Advice: Don't get paid in checks..(or work in a place that pays by checks)
In Aus you could go for unfair dismissal, The Industrial Relations Act 1996 allows an employee who believes that he or she has been unfairly dismissed or threatened with dismissal to apply to the NSW Industrial Relations Commission.
After an application has been lodged, there will be a conciliation hearing. The employee and the employer will meet with a member of the Commission in an attempt to resolve the claim. If conciliation is unsuccessful, the application will proceed to an arbitration hearing. This process is more formal.
Both you and your employee are able to make submissions setting out their case to the Commission.
After hearing from both sides, the Commission will determine the claim either by dismissing it, or by making a legally enforceable order where it upholds the claim.
You and your employee can be represented by an agent, an industrial organisation or a lawyer.
The best part is that its a govt dept, and free.
That or you could just not get paid by check (direct credit like in Aus is far smarter)
Tronsky
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One thing I've learned about arguments is that its more effective that, when someone responds to you and starts getting emotionally erect, the best way to respond is to become Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men". I really dug the scenes at Gitmo where he created a sense of rage without shouting and without using profanity. If you can master that, you can really influence people. You'll notice that he was popped when he himself resorted to shouting and using profanity.
Another role model: Christopher Lee in "Star Wars". His measured responses were the epitomy of evil, and you can use that same mannerism without getting fired!
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All that clerk had to do was print out the check from the puter or go through the envelopes organized by dept for the mail guy to deliver and find Urchins name. Not difficult, all this for nothing. Nothing was accomplished, build or constructed. BTW:
Didnt mean to offend any woman on board. Forget, its a coed BBS these days.
I say you sue them also, milk them for every dollar you can get.
:D
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... use electronics funds transfer and get your paycheck deposited straight into your bank account.
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Originally posted by Kanth
I have a story too. basically some dood at work decided he wanted to date me, he broke into my car and left me a wierd note which I gave to personnell along with the info that he broke into my car while it was parked at company parking lot..they talked to him that day...he immediately came out to me on the flightline and threatened to kill me which several of my coworkers overheard so I followed him right back into the hanger and told HR about it along with a coworker who confirmed it and they fired him...then he stalked me for a while until I moved (including keying my mustang and slashing the top with a screw driver and hanging out outside my apt etc..)...
my co workers used to make jokes at work saying "don't stand too close to her you might accidentally take the bullet ha ha ha"...cause he was a gun collector.
So if you think it's only women who are freaks at work people..get a clue!
I've got plenty of stories about women and men.
What did the note say? Did he just dissapear when you moved? Is it long ago?
Ive been doing some volounteer work for a runaway shelter (kinda hard to translate, its a place where women who needs to hide for some reason come. No men are allowed there, and I dont even know where the shelter is, but I help them with various legal stuff) and I have heard too many stories like yours.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Hey, this happened to me Too! But it was a summer job at KFC, and I was 16. I wasn't too broken up about it. Screw her if she didn't like my buiscut making speed. :p
-Sikboy
I thought you looked familiar Bisquit Boy! :p
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Well, I'm military... and foul language while considered "unprofessional", it's usually not an issue unless some dope decides to make an issue of it
Please them me this aint true. Hell, the Army is where I learned to cuss.
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Urchin, you need to rent the South Park movie and watch the part where they get hauled in for swearing.
At least it'll make chuckle a bit...
"What's the big f@#in' deal?"
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Originally posted by Kieran
Sorry, Ski, doing something unethical is unethical, no matter what the motivation is.
Ethics are defined by your own personal beliefs, hince what's unethical for you, might not be unethical to me, and vice versa.
In my book, if ex-employer is going out of their way to f...k you, after they fired you unjustly, it is fully justified and ethical to figth for your own.
Eye for an eye sort of thing.
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Here you go Kirean,
let me clarify:
I'm all against ex-employer giving out undocumented, vengeful info. That's what i think Urchin should find out.
If god forbit they mention his chest... oh wait :)
Is a former employer sabotaging your ability to gain employment? Loose-lips don't just sink ships. They often devastate a job hunters ability to gain employment.
After leaving a job, a former employer is free to pass along negative information about you to prospective employers, and most state laws protect them from legal recourse provided the information is - job related; based upon credible evidence; and made without malice.
It is illegal for a former employer to purposefully give false information for the sake of harming one's reputation or preventing one from obtaining employment. In addition, personal information that is not job related should neither be asked about or provided by either a prospective or former employer. In general, it is inappropriate for a prospective employer to ask questions or a former employer to provide information about an individual's race, color, religion, sex, national or ethnic origin, age, disability status, marital status, sexual orientation, or parenting responsibilities.
Former employers who fear potential defamation and slander law suites have become crafty when answering employment reference questions. Rather than speak negatively about a former employee, some will opt to "No Comment" when asked critical employment questions regarding performance, termination, and eligibility for rehire. The inference of this is just as harmful to the employee as a bad reference, and if a prospective employer has to choose between two qualified applicants - one with positive references and the other with mediocre or bad references - who do you suppose they will choose?
Another common practices among leery employers is to refuse to give any information about an employee other than dates of employment and title.
This is gross disservice to an employee who has dedicated years of faithful service to a company, yet gets no better of a reference then an employee who was fired for embezzlement. Unfortunately, this policy is within the legal rights of an employer provided the policy is an across the board policy that applies to all employees - not just a selected few. There have been cases successfully argued that an employer discriminated against an employee for not applying the same policy to all its employees.
Employment laws vary significantly from state to state. You should consult an attorney in your state regarding specific legal questions. If you suspect your former employer is giving you a bad reference, or of something more malicious like slander, defamation, or blacklisting, you should consider investigating your references
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In today's litigious society it can also be detrimental to a company to give a good reference. If the employee turns out to be a sicko at the new job, that too can come back to haunt you. Best to just give dates of employment and let it go at that.
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That's all nice and stuff, but what you were recommending was he try to trap them into saying something for the express purpose of suing them. That is unethical. Wrapping it up with all that other stuff you posted had nothing to do with the central point of your original "suggestion".
BTW, I like your moral relativity description. :rolleyes:
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Ok for your first question...
No you werent justified in using "Faul Language"yes you should of done something different, 1.Tell your manager of her shouting, (shouting to ''Me" is more distracting then cussing and would cause a more "Uncomfortable" working enviroment...)
Say that she caused you to become uncomfortable in your work enviroment which then lead to you cussing which in no doubt you were mistaken to do but the she was very very Iresponsible (Spelling) and that she was not paying full attention to you which is obvios by her talking to her friend.
Now, your manager can say what ever She/He thinks of you to the person hiring you but the person hiring you should get your side of the argument only to be fair.
Well that 'Lil book of 'How we can fire you' basicly says that if you say, "Exuse me misses" we can fire you. Or if you sneeze which is kind of dumb.
My point of view, no i've never had a job but listen to my dad when he got fired at this horrible place. Which we tryed to sue but then cause of the 'Lil book,laws in florida,we couldnt.
Good Luck, and i suggest you call up that manager and tell him/her that you were offended by the clerks shouting which lead to you using foul language.
:) Just my Opinion.
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Originally posted by Kieran
BTW, I like your moral relativity description. :rolleyes:
Well, i guess I'll burn in hell for not being a good christian then.
:rolleyes:
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Sue the employee ? why ? in my opinion hes are the one who lost his temper and cused their payroll clerk even if she used raised voice its a bad thing to do.
Also companys (in EU atleast) have access to such informations and they DO exchange it on higher levels without your knowledge, so its not even worth that extra couple bucks (only if you can get enough to never work again :)) when you can get in trouble while trying to get another job afterwards.
I have worked in a lot of compayes from retail to big multinationals (mostly IT companys) on very different levels and they mostly do check your background .
"If your manager wants you to have your check, he can come in here and get it himself and give it to you, I'm not going to"
Above is exactly what you should do imo.
btw : dont you ppl in US have contracts with your employees ? Its mostly a lot of paper but its worth reading :D
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You have absolutely NO right to use profanity directed angerly towards another person rather it be in the workplace or not. I'm amazed at all the posters who overlook the lack of respect you and the payroll clerk demonstrated towards each other. You handled yourself immaturely and quite badly. Oh, and all these guys that are saying you should sue? Tell me, what would you do if this guy went off on your wife or daughter like that? Sorry, but only a bully or a coward would intimidate a woman like that. Call me old fashioned, but what you deserved was this woman's husband showing up in the parking lot your first day back to give you a richly deserved bellybutton whipping.
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Or you can have Elfie bungee-drop on him :eek:
It's fun to watch and you don't have to get dirting giving the bellybutton whoppin'
Cobra
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Oh, I'm not denying that I was in the wrong. That is one reason I wouldn't sue the company over this. Another reason is that I feel it is sort of a stupid thing to sue over, they have the 'right' to fire whoever works for them for any reason or no reason at all.
As far as having a 'right' to curse in the workplace (or anywhere else) or to curse at women- yes, it is a bad thing. People do bad things when they get pissed off, and I was pissed off. I actually think I conducted myself reasonably well- I could have thrown a fit and started screaming like she did. As far as me trying to intimidate her, I never was. I was trying to get that which two different managers had said I could have, and that she refused to give me. Believe me, I know how to intimidate people, and I wasn't doing it there.
I'd actually love for that woman's husband to try to give me a 'richly deserved asswhipping'. I am pretty clear on the laws there- if someone takes a swing at you, you are entitled to defend yourself. And I can defend myself pretty well, thank you very much. What I'm not clear on is whether me putting him in the hospital would be considered 'self-defense' even if he took the first swing. That is another interesting question, and you see different "T.V. judges" rule differently on every case (at least the ones I've seen).
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Maybe you should get away from occupations that require interaction with other human beings. Look into jobs such as lighthouse keeper or night watchman at a recycling center bud. I'm self employeed and if you talked like that in my office I'd toss you out on your ear. You're damn lucky the payroll lady didn't claim she was intimidated or you could have been arrested for assault. Maybe you should find a NEW 7-11 to work for dude.
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I obviously have a different perspective on the situation than you seem to.
Of course, I also have a different perspective on this situation I suppose, since I see you as being extremely rude, and you may (or may not, I don't know) think you are being polite.
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No one gets fired over 1 argument.
No one sues with a prayer when they finally get fired after pissing everyone off, and then giving the manager the easy way out.
Just saying.
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Urchin,
Sorry to hear about that bro.
Were you wrong to shout at the payroll clerk?? In a word Yes.
Ya gotta cool that temper buddy, females will always win in these situations.
Was it fair you were fired, in a word No?
Sounds like one of two things to me, was the manager who fired you a friend of the payroll clerk??. The manager was a she right?? I dont think thats just coincidental. Only natural she would side with the female clerk. The secind possibility is that they were looking for a reson to get rid of you. Maybe the payroll clerk deliberatley wound you up, perhaps knowing that you have a hot temper?
As for the future, I would first try and get a reasonable reference from them. Go to them saying, "C'mon guys this is my future"and perhaps volunteer to apologise to the clerk. This may be a pride thing for you but pride aint gonna put bread on the table. Failing that I would try and make up something to cover the year on your resume, something that sounds real plausable and is not easy to check.
Tell ya the truth, I would not hire ya if your references didnt check out, but I *might* if you were upfront and said It was a one off thing. So your choices are 1) get a reference 2) come up with a *very* good cover story or 3) be up front with potential new employers, if honesty is important to them then it may swing things your way. I would avoid number 2 if ya can, cause if someone came to me with even a slightly suspect story I'd check it in detail.
Hope it works out for ya, from knowin ya from Aces you seem like a good bloke. Why not use this as an opportunity to update your skills and develop a better career path??
Best Wishes,
Dave.
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C'mon, Ski, that's a straw man.
Ok, how's this... you get really bad Karma?
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Originally posted by Urchin
...since I see you as being extremely rude, and you may (or may not, I don't know) think you are being polite.
Oh no Urchin, I'm not attempting to be polite at all. But...RUDE??? My apologizes if you thought I was being rude. Actually being rude would be cussing out a woman- I was striving to be insulting. See, YOU were the one who was rude here and you got your arse canned for it.
One question though- Would you have cussed out this woman had there been a fellow employee present? I'll bet you wouldn't have and I'll also bet you were trying to be intimidating in your nature towards her. LOL Evidence would be your claims to being a tough guy here. You were probably toejam canned because if you ever stepped even further over the lines of acceptable behavior the company would have been liable for a lawsuit from the payroll clerk.
Now about respect- An awful lot of us still open doors, offer seats to, show preference to and still respect the fairer sex. I was raised to never hit, curse, intimidate or otherwise harass a female other than my wife. You stepped over the line not only career wise but also manliness wise. Real men don't curse women.
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Urchin, heres the best advice anyone will give you. Go into the store, go to back isle, pour some pine sole and water on the floor, slip on it and make a ruckuss. Imediately yell, "aahah!, my neck my neck, someone get me a doctor!" "I've fallen nd I cant get up".
Then get a lawyer. Ka chiing!!! $$$
;)
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Elfenwolf... I probably would have used foul language had the other employee not been there. Why? Because I was pissed off, and cursing is something I do when I'm pissed off.
You on the other hand, wouldn't dare do be as 'insulting' as you are on the BBS. Why? Because you'd be afraid I'd kick your bellybutton over it. But with the relative anonymity of the Internet, people can act much bolder than they would dare to in person.
I do find this line somewhat interesting -
I was raised to never hit, curse, intimidate or otherwise harass a female other than my wife.
Congratulations on being so chivalrous.
Oh, and I'm not bragging about being a 'tough guy'. I said I knew how to defend myself. There is a difference. I have been in two fights since I was a kid- the other guy started them, and I ended them. I don't start fights... in fact I was raised to believe that physical violence isn't the right way to solve a problem.... even if it IS your wife. Guess your parents overlooked that.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Elfenwolf... I probably would have used foul language had the other employee not been there. Why? Because I was pissed off, and cursing is something I do when I'm pissed off.
You on the other hand, wouldn't dare do be as 'insulting' as you are on the BBS. Why? Because you'd be afraid I'd kick your bellybutton over it. But with the relative anonymity of the Internet, people can act much bolder than they would dare to in person. .
LOL Nah Urchin, cowards like you who abuse women don't scare me in the least. There's nothing I've said here I wouldn't say to your face- only a bully and a coward addresses women in such a manner so as to require a physical response. It's intresting to note the payroll clerk was female. Had the clerk been a male I'm sure your attitude would have been different.
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LOL, what are the chances of the husbands howing up for the fite.
:D
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... I probably would have used foul language had the other employee not been there. Why? Because I was pissed off, and cursing is something I do when I'm pissed off.
Hmmmm, this seems like a character flaw you might want to change.
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diddly that!
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ROFL!
Stop throwing rocks at my pond!!!!
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See elfenwolf.. there we are different. I treat everyone the same. Treat me with respect, and I'll treat you with respect. Treat me with disrespect, and you don't deserve my respect.
I don't care if someone is a woman... just because she is a woman does not give her the right to be rude. At least not where I live, it may be different where you live.
And yes, Elfenwolf... you would be scared to insult me to my face. Why? Because it is you, not I, who are the coward. People who have different standards of behaviour for different people and or forums (such as face to face, or over the Internet) or cowardly by nature.
Come to the convention next year. We'll meet and we can see if you would throw insults at me to my face. Hell, I'll probably even show great restraint and not pop you. Because I also know that people like you are quite petty (and did I mention cowardly?), and are more than willing to use the civil court system as a shield to hide your rude and/or insulting behaviour behind.
Still waiting on the callsign by the way....
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MT.. whats the character flaw? Cursing when I get angry? Yea, that is probably something I should work on. Nobody is perfect.
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Originally posted by Urchin
See elfenwolf.. there we are different. I treat everyone the same. Treat me with respect, and I'll treat you with respect. Treat me with disrespect, and you don't deserve my respect.
I don't care if someone is a woman... just because she is a woman does not give her the right to be rude. At least not where I live, it may be different where you live.
And yes, Elfenwolf... you would be scared to insult me to my face. Why? Because it is you, not I, who are the coward. People who have different standards of behaviour for different people and or forums (such as face to face, or over the Internet) or cowardly by nature.
Come to the convention next year. We'll meet and we can see if you would throw insults at me to my face. Hell, I'll probably even show great restraint and not pop you. Because I also know that people like you are quite petty (and did I mention cowardly?), and are more than willing to use the civil court system as a shield to hide your rude and/or insulting behaviour behind.
Still waiting on the callsign by the way....
Oh sheeesh, so here we go- come to the Conn and I'll whip your bellybutton in the parking lot. Sorry, but Ripsnort offered last year and I refused so I must again respectfully pass upon your offer of mutual combat in Dallas, Texas in August of 2003. Of course I understand this makes me a skeerdy-cat in your eyes but actually it's because I'm mature enough to know where to draw the line, bud. If I were an infintile jerk like you I would be an unemployeed clerk lamenting the fact their minimum wage Wal-Mart restocking job was lost and looking to kick bellybutton on all who stated I'm a loser.. Instead I'm laughing at your stupid bellybutton and realising more and more that the company who employeed your butt was justified in terminating your sorry ass. I hope they challange your unemployment and force you to get a job you are more suited for- nighttime janitorial work. You are a punk.
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Oh my, a wife-beater calling little old me a punk. Whatever shall I do?
Oh.. and still waiting for the callsign. Surely a hot stick at the top of the AH 'food chain' wouldn't be reluctant to give it out?
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Urchin, your pry an amazinhunk.
I know I am, but I never treat people at work bad, that's just retarded. I tweak them to an extent when they act like tards, but it's a fine art, which needs a bit of people management skills, and plain outwitting the fools while humoring yourself at their clueless expense.
Flipping out and swearing? Why would you do that?
See, that's where the term "dumb-ass" comes from.
We ass's take draw a fine line. Being dumb would be that line.
Now regroup, get a resume printed, and find another career opportunity in a "retail store field." Whatever in the hell that is.
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As a general rule I don't go out of my way to diddly with people, Creamo. Not even on the Internet when you can talk without having to face any real consequences. What I did I did because I was angry.
Some folks take pride in their ability to piss other people off, I just don't happen to be one of them.
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Urchin, Elfenwolf, I say you guys duel this one out. Really. This is just an idea but this aint work and this aint real life so you guys have some freedoms here beyong what we take for granted in reality. I say you two go duel. Do it do it doit doit.
:)
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Not even on the Internet when you can talk without having to face any real consequences. What I did I did because I was angry.
And what would you do to me in person for pointing out the obvious? Squirt me a load of tears? Swear and have a toejam-fit? Buy me drinks and ask for more advice?
Your simpleton, heated, unstable response here is a sure indication that not only are you an amazinhunk, you can’t control it. BBS or at work.
Tweak man, tweak. I enjoy it.
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Well, you got me pegged there I guess. You outta do a newspaper column, I'm sure you'd make millions.
And it is quite obvious you enjoy pissing people off. My pet theory is that people like you and Elfenwolf do it on the BBS because you are too chickenshit to speak up to whoever is pissing you off in real life. Course, that is just me.
Kinda like the old saying off "Boss yells at the man, man yells at the wife (or I guess in Elfenwolfs case he just beats her), wife yells at kid, kid yells at the dog. Everyone needs to feel 'good' about themselves, and for some people like you, feeling good about yourself and Elfenwolf involves trying to make someone else feel bad about themself. Everyone has to deal with stress in some way.. I just think y'alls way of doing it is rather pathetic.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Kinda like the old saying off "Boss yells at the man, man yells at the wife (or I guess in Elfenwolfs case he just beats her), wife yells at kid, kid yells at the dog.
You forgot the ending:
Dog bites the mailman, mailman takes an AK-47 to work and wipes out his co-workers.
-Sikboy
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My experience in the working corporate world, and sitting through a few companywide required "harrassement" type classes enables me to form this opinion:
1) They did not have to issue you your check early, nice if they would, but not required.
2) If you even once used the "f" word, and the woman you used it to filed a complaint with the company, they had no choice but terminate your employment. If they didnt, she would have a great lawsuit against them for allowing you to create and maintain an intimidating workplace.
3) I have never heard that it is illegal anywhere in the USA to give a good or bad reference, but a large percentage of companies by written policy will only officially supply a confirmation of employment stating date of hiring and date of employment termination (whatever the reason, fired, quit, etc.). They follow these policies to prevent lawsuits by a company they recommended a person to, or a person who was not hired elsewhere because of a bad reference. Good or bad opinions are just that, subjective opinions and can be challenged in court. Factual information can be provided without fear of lawsuit. This does not in any way prevent one HR person whispering to another HR person "off the record" what they know, and you will have a heck of time proving that conversation ever existed.
My suggestion, move on, forget about it, but be honest in future employment search. Explain the situation if asked, and admit you made a mistake that you would never repeat. Just my thoughts, good luck,
dago
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Originally posted by Creamo
We ass's take draw a fine line. Being dumb would be that line.
This has the flavor and nearly the quality of some of your better stuff. Note quite a coffee-nose explosion, but not bad. It's great to see a guy making a comeback and getting into his old form!
BTW, I met Urchin at the con. I'm pretty sure most of the guys dissing here would like him. He's pretty much like the rest of us in person; a likeable chap.
As Rude, Milo and I were discussing on the way back, you'd probably never see a true bunghole at a con. That's not an environment they would seek.
Urchin, my .02? Yep, ya screwed the pooch on this one.
OTOH, if you didn't like the job, the only thing really hurt here is ego or pride or whatever you want to call it. They fired ya. Big deal.. it happens. Some of the richest guys in the world were fired from jobs at one time or another.
Time to move on, mate. There's another job out there waiting and if you're half as good as your inner self tells you that you are... you'll do better and enjoy the next one more.
Close the book
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes tell us what store this is.
But anyway this is clearly a case where you were fired because you argued with a legaly superior class of person. You a male are not allowed to argue with women in an agressive manner in a wrkplace, so you were fired. If you feel you have nothing to live for it might be a good idea to go in there and shoot up the place, BUT I AM NOT TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THAT AT ALL. :D
Go git em tiger!
What is it with some Conservatives and feeling victimized by women?
I have never felt that I had to modify my behavior when dealing with female co-workers vs male co-workers. This paranoia that GRUNHERZ and senna display is completely baffling to me and massively overblown.
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Originally posted by Urchin
As a general rule I don't go out of my way to diddly with people, Creamo. Not even on the Internet when you can talk without having to face any real consequences. What I did I did because I was angry.
Some folks take pride in their ability to piss other people off, I just don't happen to be one of them.
Well, take pride in this, Urchin- You genuinely pissed me off. Not just because you lambasted a woman who was only trying to do her job- not only because you came here looking for sympathy and when confronted with a disenting point of view you offered to fight me- but yea, you are a genuine piece o chit. You don't scare me, impress me nor intimidate me. In fact you can kiss my ass. Sincerely.
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Elfenwolf.. I don't come here looking for friends. The fact that I 'piss you off' means less than nothing to me. I don't know you, I'm never going to meet you (because as was posted above... you really aren't the sort of person who WANTS to meet the people you are insulting). Why should I care what you think?
I'm also still waiting on that callsign..... ace.
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The note was basically a list of things he'd like to do with me, which won't be listed on this forum and I can't remember them anyway..
and he didn't disappear I did.
I moved far enough away that he'd never find me.
it's been a while now and I'm in a different state now so I don't worry.
It's good you are doing that kind of work..lotta bad things happen to alotta people.
Originally posted by Hortlund
What did the note say? Did he just dissapear when you moved? Is it long ago?
Ive been doing some volounteer work for a runaway shelter (kinda hard to translate, its a place where women who needs to hide for some reason come. No men are allowed there, and I dont even know where the shelter is, but I help them with various legal stuff) and I have heard too many stories like yours.
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On Toad's character recomendation I'll chill out on Urchin. My respect for Toad outweighs the disrespect I hold for Urchin so I will refrain from insulting him further. I'm over it, and if Urchin isn't I'd be more than happy to offer him room and board for a weekend so we can discuss our differences. C'mon out Urchin. pool. hot tub, beer on tap- hell, my wife is pals with a whole bunch of nude dancers so I can guarantee you nude babes in the hot tub, which is a hell of a lot better than sweaty dudes wrestling in the driveway.
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:eek:
Elf, you absolutely SHOULD NOT meet Urchin without a neutral party to resolve these serious issues.
I hereby volunteer my valuable time to join you and Urchin at a "hot tub retreat" so that we can all be friends.
;)
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
pool. hot tub
Judging from what was seen at the con...you may want to reconsider that offer. Or you may have a mess of a hairball to clean outta the filter afterwards. :eek:
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'm never going to meet you (because as was posted above... you really aren't the sort of person who WANTS to meet the people you are insulting). Why should I care what you think?
I'm also still waiting on that callsign..... ace.
Actually I've met about fifteen to twenty AW-AHers and personally it's a blast to match a face with a personality. In fact I hope to meet several more AH pilots at the Reno Air Races in September. The Con would have been fun, but my wife said no, so maybe next year. From all the posts I've read it sounds like everyone had a blast. LOL I'd be more than happy to meet you or anyone else that plays AH. What would you do, beat me up? LOL I doubt it. Get real, son.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
I was raised to never hit, curse, intimidate or otherwise harass a female other than my wife.
Damn, I thought that line was Homer Simpson-like funny and nobody laughed.
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Hey EW... I'm going to be in Sacramento in late September to pick up a truck... You going to be in town?
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Hey EW... I'm going to be in Sacramento in late September to pick up a truck... You going to be in town?
Absolutely. Tell me when and I'll mark my calandar.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Hey EW... I'm going to be in Sacramento in late September to pick up a truck... You going to be in town?
Why the hell, would you want to hang out with a violent wife beater? If you do see him, make sure you kick his bellybutton for Urchin.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Why the hell, would you want to hang out with a violent wife beater? If you do see him, make sure you kick his bellybutton for Urchin.
Thrawn, Do you really think I'd just thump on my old lady for no good reason? Go ahead and ask her- she'll tell you I only beat her when she deserves it. Sheeesh, I ain't no trailer park Republican.
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If Sandman brings his wife, you to could make a day of it. Sit around, have a few brews, cry about social welfare. Then beat the hell out of your wives.
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Nah, they being leftist and socialists the proper thing to do would be to swap wives- I'm sorry- share wives. ;)
Elf-
The wife beating remark you made was so obviously in jest I couldn't believe it was taken so seriously. You seemed to be making the most of it, so I didn't want to interrupt the virtuoso performance as you played those strings.
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Five star thread!
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Allow me to apoligize also Elf, as I also said some things that I should not have said.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Absolutely. Tell me when and I'll mark my calandar.
I'll probably fly in on the 23rd and then drive out on Tuesday morning.
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Never, EVER cuss out a female employee, only OTHER female employees can cuss out females. They do it to each other all the time. Males, however, will get shown the door.........
You can be a complete and utter amazinhunk as a human being, and a committed mysoginist, but if you go out of your way to charm the females where you work, you can get away with anything. It works. Ask Bill Clinton........
Never get mad, get even......
If you are getting diddlyed, diddly back......
"Office Politics" is one of the lower pursuits in life, but it is a reality you have to deal with. "Brown Nosers" and "Back-Stabbers" are disgusting, but they are often very successful in the workplace. They may suck at the job itself, but their well-worn knee-pads are an indication of how they got where they are.
Everybody makes mistakes, you made one, forget about it and move on. Next time you come up against some squeak or bastard at work, agree with them, tell them they are wonderful, that you are in error, and then IGNORE what they said and go on about your business. If they go out of their way to make your life miserable do not waste time in beginning your counter-attack. But don't EVER show anger.
An ace-in-the-hole to remember if you ever get into a dispute on the job, tell your supervisor that the squeak/SOB called you a "studmuffingot" and that as a homosexual you were being harrassed on the job and couldn't take it anymore, and that you will see a Civil Rights Attorney about the problem if the BS doesn't stop immediately.
That will DEFINITELY diddly your opponent/supervisor and garner sympathy from the females where you work.........
Another thing to do is if some guy is harrassing you on the job is to be sure you let that guy know you are a firearms freak(carry copies of "Guns And Ammo" and "Soldier Of Fortune" magazines around with you and brag about your new AK-47 you had modified to fire on automatic)and that you are a basically crazy-as-hell kinda guy who doesn't care if he lives or dies. The SOB will leave you alone after that, believe me........
Remember:
NEVER admit ANYTHING, tell them what they want to hear, and the less you run your mouth the better off you will be......
Good luck!!!
Cabby
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I started this thread on your side urchin "kinda" but by the end the only advice I can offer....
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0671723650.01._PE_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
Read it :)
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this is long down this list i know .. but sue thier tulips (way I undersatnd the story if they want to fire you; they have to fire her) .. if not sue em' ... you may lose but will at least teach the manegment a lesson :) NO i don't like sueing people that much but better than haveing crazy 'postal' worker's, eh?
editing this in case you missed my point which isn't sue (was late night, i was cyptic and off; meant to use sue as more of joke::note the postal worker refrance::} point was from the story .. which is subject to bias .... she should be fired too if he was fired.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Allow me to apoligize also Elf, as I also said some things that I should not have said.
Nah Urchin I was dogging you out so I'm the one who must apologize. This is the O'Club and actually I was LMAO at our escalating trade of insults (of course I was drinking rather heavily last night) but all things considered if you ever get to Sac send me an email and I'll buy you a beer. I wouldn't have ripped you if I hadn't been so bored and anyway you handled yourself well given my general rudeness. I apologize too. <>. Oh, and BTW, my flight name is Airhead. I'm taking the week off from flying because it was becoming a full time job to stay in the top 3,000 in pilot rankings and I was cracking under the pressure. I'll be back in the MA when my psych says it's OK to fly again.
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What? Apologizing? Kissing and hugging and making up?
There's no kissing and hugging and making up in the O-Club!
You have to do that in a HOT TUB fer pete's sake... and it has to be supervised... BY ME.. .and there has to be lots and lots of exotic dancers around as participants and witnesses!
I'm SOOOOOOOO disappointed in you guys!
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What's this now, hot tub with Toad, Elfy and Urchin?... Oh I wanna be invited too... I'll bring Animal with his Ruby lips
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
.... I'm over it, and if Urchin isn't I'd be more than happy to offer him room and board for a weekend so we can discuss our differences. C'mon out Urchin. pool. hot tub, beer on tap- hell, my wife is pals with a whole bunch of nude dancers so I can guarantee you nude babes in the hot tub, which is a hell of a lot better than sweaty dudes wrestling in the driveway.
You can see that this sort of thing would have to be supervised.. I merely volunteered.
Now they've taken the risky road of apologizing to each other with pixels.. not nearly as effective I'm afraid.
I still think the "hot tub plan" is best.
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Urchin started it! He apologized first! I was just doing the right thing here. And keep Animal out of my hot tub. The last thing I want is some creature crawling off of him and living in my hot tub.
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Does this mean no fight at the next con?:(
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Does this mean no fight at the next con?:(
If another Canadian shows up, there might be (inside joke Thrawn, nothing to do with you)
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Originally posted by Kieran
Nah, they being leftist and socialists the proper thing to do would be to swap wives- I'm sorry- share wives. ;)
Elf-
The wife beating remark you made was so obviously in jest I couldn't believe it was taken so seriously. You seemed to be making the most of it, so I didn't want to interrupt the virtuoso performance as you played those strings.
Kieran, Actually I felt uncomfortable saying that because so many Republicans still beat their wives.
Hmmm...wife swapping tho...Hey Sandman, what kind of truck are you picking up? If it's a nice one I'll swap you my wife and our 95 Ford Taurus with 185,000 miles on it. Should be able to get you and her and all her stuff back to Southern California...
E-mail me airhead1142@attbi.com with your flight info.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
I'll bring Animal with his Ruby lips
LOL 10Bears....kind of makes you remember that song....
Oh Rubbbyyyy.....don't take your love to town....
Cobra
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Some people are suggesting you sue the employer, but based on what? Your foul language? The payroll clerk not being nice to you? Your being fired?
You cannot cuss at female employees, nor male for that matter without risking your termination. You did, they fired. Courts wouldnt rule in your favor.
She wasnt nice? If she isnt vulgar, you cant sue because of what she did. Courts would laugh at that.
You got fired? I would bet alot of money that they have a written "rules of conduct" that you probably signed a copy of when hired, and it would prohibit at the risk of termination abusive language or creating an intimidating atmosphere. Again, you are not justified as I see it to seek legal redress.
Someone said you can sue for free, hardly. And as far as the idea that a lawyer would take on your case for free, looking for a contingency payment, most lawyers only do this when they have reasonable expectation of a successful case or at least leverage for a settlement. I personally dont see it in this case.
Move on, be honest in future employment pursuits, and learn a lesson from this past situation.
good luck,
dago