Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on August 16, 2002, 12:13:08 PM
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Just think how it could be if we had an RPS. Those of us who like to try out a range of aircraft would be able to do so realistically. The Spit1a/P40 guys (I am neither) would get a fair shake. Maybe jabo guys would have a chance without having their missions screwed up by LA7s, or any other nonsense plane that happens to warp in from hyperspace. I know that there are those people who feel that their $14.95 monthly subscription should entitle them to the plane of their choice, and perhaps HTC is going for mass market appeal in making every plane available on every day. I fully supported the RPS concept on the Dark Side because so many people enjoyed early war! I wasn’t one of them, and had to wait half a ToD for my favourite plane, the F6F, to appear. But that was perfectly OK. It meant that there was something for everyone – early war, mid war, late war. I was always a mid war kind of guy.
OK, you know I don’t like NIKs, but they’re too slow to be much of a threat. But if we’re going to have LA7s, as they are currently modelled in AH, we might as well include Sea Harrier jump jets and GR1 Tornados. Think of all the whines we would have then!
One of the difficulties at the moment is that before an organised attack can succeed, a handful of guys from the opposition will up in LA7s and skew the whole contest! I’m not saying we should get rid of the LA7, or the N1K – but it would be nice if they weren’t there every single day.
Let me pre-empt your suggestion to go to the CT, as it is always empty or nearly empty when I log on.
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Heard a rumor that in the future they'd like to implement 3 MA arenas. Early war , mid war, late war. Each with their own perked planes and perks would carry over from arena to arena.
Sounds interesting and I hope it happens.
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Just when you thought it was safe...JET SUNDAY!!!
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NO RPS! Not in the main for goodness sake - was the the thing I hated most about warbirds. RPS has killed that game, experiment is over - HT not about to make the same error :) (thank god!)
edit to add this link:
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9490
If Warbirds is doing something, that is reason enough to run away from it screaming.
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Believe me you don't want to go there.
Really.
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GO right on ahead, as long as it isn't in the same MA as I fly in :-)
J_A_B
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You already have an RPS. You're free to fly the planes on any order you wish.
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I fly the mid-war planes in the MA and I have to say that nothing gives me greater joy than smacking down a N1k2 with a F4U-1 birdcage. An RPS would take that joy from me.
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what gofaster said :D
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Won't the Mission Theater be just that? Planes that flew against each other at the time?
As far as CT goes... CT is more fun even when it's down to 1v1, compared to the MA.
The only time it is rather dull is when you are the only one there... :D
I had a good time yesterday in the CT. At first it was 1 vs 3, then one came over to make it 2v2.
Doc and Me had a blast defending A5 in our zeke's against incoming TBM's, duelling F4F's or
trying to catch A-20's, later on more people entered the arena and things got hectic, but....
you are always in the midst/part of the action that is going on, what more could you want?
Intense 1v1 duels when numbers are low
2v2, 3v3 action when numbers get bigger etc
good plane match-ups
nice maps
early/mid war planes you've never flown in the MA suddenly get used...
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An RPS won't work. The whines from the One-Trick-Ponies drowns out the engine sounds.
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RPS killed several arenas in Air Warrior......and I didn't appreciate the RPS in WarBirds either. If ya want RPS the CT has them
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Gentlemen! You are wimps!
You should not be thinking about how it would affect *you personally*, but of the AH populace as a whole. But then again I guess AH is for the *ME Generation* - and to hell with everyone else. :(
An RPS would not destroy the game. In WB, it was not the RPS that did that, but the WW2A combined with an idiotic RPS. And that was why I left WB myself. OK, I don't care if we have Spit v Spit fights, or 190 v 190. By allowing each side the same planes, at least we wont have an arena imbalance. In WB, Doofus-Dweebius would switch to whichever side had the best plane - strongest, fastest, most powerful guns etc. An RPS would not cause that.
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Why shouldn't I think about how it effects me??? Am I missing something? Are you actually saying I should pay to do what you want because.... because... (my mind goes blank trying to find the reason)
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I like the RPS in WB I also like the WW2A setup. An RPS would be a great way to get all the planes in AH get some use but I agree with Popeye there are those who only fly one plane because they like to have an advantage and are unwilling to learn to fly anything else because their macho pride would be too badly dented if they were to be shot down.
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No no no no no no. Let me rephrase that: nope nope nope nope nope nope.
HATED that limitation in WarBirds and was delighted to leave it. Want access to ALL vehicles ALL the time. Not paying to be limited.
Having said that, it's an okay option for a separate arena. But never the Main Arena.
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I say alternate the tours between RPS and all aircraft being available. That should make everyone happy.
(Somehow I doubt that.)
Variety is the spice of life.
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"there are those who only fly one plane because they like to have an advantage and are unwilling to learn to fly anything else because their macho pride would be too badly dented if they were to be shot down."
Revin, half the time I have a hard time knowing what I think, but now I find there's someone that actually knows what everyone in this game opposed to an RPS is thinking. I salute you! You're a Hell of a guy....
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No
SKurj
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As much as HTC innovate and try and move the game forward there will always be those with closed minds who just won't try anything new and resist any change, discussion's like this make me wonder if the mission based arena will ever be given a fair try or perhaps AH will always be stuck in the arcade MA furball mentality that is sucking the life out of AH.
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You should not be thinking about how it would affect *you personally*
My god man...
How *else* are we to think of it ??
The RPS in WB sucked. It caused more arguements and squeaking then ANY good that it did.
The first week REALLY sucked. I don't like Spit 1's, 109E's OR Zekes....
Beet1e do you not remember the hordes of 109's in the first week ???? So it's an open arena here and not a WWII arena. You will still have is Emils everywhere. Are you getting old, losing your memory ??? Hell I rarely flew the first week.
Not to mention the last week when there was nothing but Ponies :rolleyes:
How in the world is that a "better" idea ??
So if it's ok, I'll continue to think about how it would affect me personally.
I'm a Republican.
We tend only to care about how things affect us *personally* anyway...
;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Gentlemen! You are wimps!
You should not be thinking about how it would affect *you personally*, but of the AH populace as a whole. But then again I guess AH is for the *ME Generation* - and to hell with everyone else. :(
From the majority of the replies, it seems the AH populace doesn't want a rolling plane set. But then I don't think you want us to do what's best for AH but rather what's best for Beet1e.
Rolling plane sets suck, why should I be denied flying the P-38 whenever I want because you can't fight against Niki's or La7s?
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Revvin
n RPS would be a great way to get all the planes in AH get some use but I agree with Popeye there are those who only fly one plane because they like to have an advantage and are unwilling to learn to fly anything else because their macho pride would be too badly dented if they were to be shot down.
Some people fly one plane because the other planes just aren't as enjoyable to fly. If I could only fly the P-38 when it became available and was forced to fly a plane I don't enjoy flying in the meantime, I'd cancel my account immediately. The rolling plane set was one of the reasons why I stopped playing WB and would be the reason I'd quit AH if it was ever implemented.
Ack-Ack
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I smell the whiff of a Christmas Turkey, and lazs isn't even here yet ;)
Poopster! Are you getting old, losing your memory ???
Well, you're half right, but I am not losing my memory. Sure, that first week sucked - for some like us - but others lived for it. I didn't like it because I'm more of a B&Z/jabo guy, and early war offered me nothing. That, coupled with losing half my ammo to WB netlag when the guns of those early planes were marginal at best made it miserable for me - and you. I never said that any RPS should start at 1941, or 1939 (the year WE got involved with the war - you yanks are always late). We could start at 1942/43. I just feel that it would be great if it wasn't 1945 every day.
Akak!
Rolling plane sets suck, why should I be denied flying the P-38 whenever I want because you can't fight against Niki's or La7s?
Now you're a very naughty little boy to be so cheeky to Uncle Beet1e. As a matter of fact, I was prompted to write this post soon after shooting a LA7 from my F4U-1D. It was that all too typical AH scenario. We (Rooks) had a CV near V3, and were launching jabo attacks. I started up with 2x1000 and 10 rockets, but of course - here comes a Bish LA7 that upped from A1 - all of 5 minutes away :rolleyes: He was a Royal pain in the arse, and I had to drop all my ord to get him. He damn nearly got me. There's no way for a F4U-1D to compete with a LA7 on equal terms, and that's my whole point. We can fly lesser planes, but everything has to stop when the LA7 dweebs decide to show up.
Revvin! I've been moonlighting for the Rooks this week owing to numerical imbalance. As you know, unlike some players, I am not happy simply to go to an enemy field en masse to vulch in order to boost score. We see enough of that. Best mission yesterday was bombing a knit vehicle hangar, and then going to A22 to help bluemako et al capture it. Hehe, I can almost hear Lazs wincing. :)
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Idealy we would have a PAC arena and an ETO arena, both with rolling planeset, two weeks=one year .
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After reading this thread, I've finally come to a decision about a RPS for AH:
My decision is that Otto is one funny guy.
Fullback
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Originally posted by Revvin
AH will always be stuck in the arcade MA furball mentality that is sucking the life out of AH.
Ack!!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Run for your lives!!!
C'mon...nothing is sucking the life outta AH. If you have forgotten how to have fun, it isnt our fault.
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Who said anything about not having fun? you assume too much. I'm having fun but there is always room for improvement and suggestion, to not improve and stay where we are would mean AH would forever be the arcade furball sim. As for wanting to make you play my way...to hell with you I sit here and read thread after thread about people moaning about this and that and what should be done about it to make the sim what THEY want it and force me to play along.
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Originally posted by beet1e
We can fly lesser planes, but everything has to stop when the LA7 dweebs decide to show up.
Sounds like you're intimidated by the La7.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Hmmmm let me see.
WB's has the oh so wonderful RPS
AH has a *sarcasm-mode=1* furball quakefest arcade MA *sarcasm-mode=0 *
WB's has on a good night 120 people (probably less) in its largest arena and 60-70 normally
AH has on a good night 450+ people and around 250-300 normally.
Isn't it obvious which the community prefers?
RPS sucks. WWII arena sucks. Many of us here LEFT WB's and came here for that very reason.
No thanks !!!
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WB made it even more crappy by making it axis vs allied... they took the limited planeset of an RPs and made it even more boring.. if you simply want axis vs allied with a "rolling plane set" then you should go to the CT. Numbers in the CT and WB should prove what a great idea that is.
no.. I don't think HTC are ready to lose customers in order to placate a few old timers who may or may not use an RPS.. I mean... they don't use the CT right now.
But.. I feel that we do need a place in the MA for early war planes to be fun and viable. At the con some ideas were tossed around but I still don't like any of em vbut mine.
Lets just carve a 2- 4 sector no mans land swath out of the bottom of the pizza map and make a bunch of fields a little closer to each other (say about 3 each) and make those the "early war area" Early war only can take off... Seperate resets for early war area and the rest of the arena. No axis vs allied BS for the arena... simple really.
lazs
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Verm is right, RPS in the MA is a bad idea .
However for phreaks like myself the ideal setup would be an MA, a PAC CT with RPS and a ETO CT with RPS . Maybe someday AH will have a player population large enough to make this feasible .
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Originally posted by Revvin
Who said anything about not having fun? you assume too much. I'm having fun but there is always room for improvement and suggestion, to not improve and stay where we are would mean AH would forever be the arcade furball sim. As for wanting to make you play my way...to hell with you I sit here and read thread after thread about people moaning about this and that and what should be done about it to make the sim what THEY want it and force me to play along.
Touch a nerve, eh?
I dont usually equate something having the life sucked out of it as fun....well there is one thing, but this is a family message board. :eek: When someone makes a statement such as you made, it certainly seems like they arent having fun.
And exactly where did I say anything about you making me play your way? Or me making you play my way, for that matter?
If you want to make RPSs and all kinds of other "improvements"...do it somewhere else, but not in the MA.
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There you go making assumptions again :rolleyes: hit a nerve? not even close :rolleyes: this is a game and I don't take it as serious as some do. Like I said you can have fun but still seek improvement, as for the other comments they were aimed at the other whiners in the thread moaning about me wanting them to play my way :rolleyes:
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Big NO to an Axis vs Allies RPS. I'd like to see a regular RPS though.
Basically, the MA isn't that much fun for the F4F-4, P-40B and other early war aircraft fans. Akak's P-38 and others flying LA7s and P-51s force the early war fans to find enjoyment in not having much of a chance to win a fight and/or to adapt and move to a later war aircraft that provides more of a chance. Though those later war rides may not be other people's favorite. (Just like those who would not enjoy the 1st week of an RPS, some might not enjoy the last week.)
Some people whine they don't want their choices limited, but it already is in a sense. 200 perks for an ME262, sixty for an F4U-4 (and a few other late-war monsters) does keep most people out of those rides whether by not enough perks or not having the intestinal fortitude to risk those perks (especially with the icon blazing "kill me, I'm a perkie!")
For all you people who do not want to be limited from flying your own personal favorite, you people are actually looking out for your own self-interest and not really for the "freedom of choice" you try to portray yourself as being for. So let's get rid of the perks altogether and make the MA a TRUE freedom of choice. I guarantee you, you two-face hypocrites would be whining about the "uber" rides other people are flying which is making it no fun to fly your N1K, P38 or whatever. And gimme an F8F Bearcat while you are at it! I don't care if it didn't see actual combat in WW2, it's my favorite and I don't want any hinderance to my fun! ;)
Oh well.
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For all you people who do not want to be limited from flying your own personal favorite, you people are actually looking out for your own self-interest and not really for the "freedom of choice" you try to portray yourself as being for. So let's get rid of the perks altogether and make the MA a TRUE freedom of choice. I guarantee you, you two-face hypocrites would be whining about the "uber" rides other people are flying which is making it no fun to fly your N1K, P38 or whatever.
ROFL too true :D
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Originally posted by Revvin
I like the RPS in WB I also like the WW2A setup. An RPS would be a great way to get all the planes in AH get some use but I agree with Popeye there are those who only fly one plane because they like to have an advantage and are unwilling to learn to fly anything else because their macho pride would be too badly dented if they were to be shot down.
Going to have to call you on this one Revvin. I looked at your stats. You say one thing but you do another.
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Go on then post away :rolleyes: be sure to pull up enough stats to substantiate this claim and not just one month
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Yeah....RPS and WW2 arenas tend to limit options to an unreasonable amount for the majority of people the majority of time.
The CT arena comes closest to both WW2 and RPS combined in one convenient arena. Bonus that the CT changes weekly so thats even better.
If you want RPS and you want WW2 check out the CT and help it do better than 15 to 30 players primetime.
Leave the MA alone. Thats where the free for all fantasy comes alive. Leave it be.
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Beetle,
Every couple of years someone makes a post as you have done, (well intentioned as it may have been). The inevitable flood of replies eventually turns vitrolic and personal. Someone uses the word Luftweenies or Nazi, (oops looks like it was me ;) ) and the thread goes rapidly into a slinging match about what is realistic and when planes were intruduced to combat vs when they were actually rolling off the production line in usable numbers.
The thread further devolves when someone brings out a timetable for introducing aircraft and the inevitable "Jet Sunday" prevents people in other timezones from flying the 262, (ie "Jet Monday evening after the kids have finished with the PC and wife has checked her email and the trash has been taken out and you've had a crappy day at work").
You don't know me from any other person you meet in everyday life but I hope you will trust me enough to make the following statements as "true"
1) This subject has been covered before, ad nauseum.
2) There is more to the argument than "it's historical and gets use out of the early war planes".
3) The consensus on every other occasion, (other than the first time it is tried), is that an RPS is a bad thing.
4) Dale, Doug and the team at HTC are well aware of #1, have their own opinions about #2 and AH doesn't have an RPS because of #3.
You said it yourself...
Let me pre-empt your suggestion to go to the CT, as it is always empty or nearly empty when I log on.
There is a reason it is empty.
Spotcha in the MA :D
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Originally posted by Revvin
Go on then post away :rolleyes: be sure to pull up enough stats to substantiate this claim and not just one month
I stand by my original post. Anyone who wishes can look at any time period they wish and conclude what they wish. Facts can be so inconvenient.
In truth Revvin, I was very dissapointed in what I concluded. You need to put this particular soapbox away. It does not suit you.
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No No No No! RPS didn't work in WB. Folks who liked late war planes would just not show up till there favorite ride was available.
AH is fine the way it is. Go to the CT for that kinda stuff!
Hwkeye
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CT isn't really for this type of stuff either. CT has a limited plane selection that rotates every week and it's really Axis vs Allies and there is little chance of F4U's tackling 190's.
If we are to have freedom of choice, let's go for it and open up the ME262 and F4U4's. But then that freedom of choice will hinder your gameplay and you'll be against that one. A 109G10 to a P40B is like an ME262 is to a P38.
To be honest, I don't really care all that much either way. I just find some of the arguments on the anti-RPS side to be a bit hypocritical. Add Sabres and MiG15s to the plane set and you'll be crying for an RPS because *your* favorite is now utterly outclassed in an arena where everyone flies the most capable.
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I know!
Put the RPS............. IN THE CT!
Perfect!
Worst case you're going to tick off (on any given nite) is 40 folks (or far less even).. much better than ticking off 400 in the MA.
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I used to think I'd like to have a rolling plane set in the MA. I really don't think I would want it now.
In fact, I think Lazs' idea is the best that I've heard, of course it has been around for quite a while. I'd love to have a little area (in the MA) where nothing but early war airplanes can fly. Of course, you then run into similar situations with the late war planes (like, some early war planes ARE better than other ones), but in general the early war planes are a little more balanced in regards to one another than the late war ones are. Well, later war, since one of the most popular planes doesn't really fit into the 'late war' category (Spit IX).
I wouldn't want to see a RPS for one reason, and one reason only. It limits people's choices in what plane they want to fly. It is their money they are spending, and they should have the right to spend it however they want. I think the perk system we have in place is a good way to limit the number of planes that HTC thinks would be 'unbalancing', although I would like to see the perk tags get changed to normal ones (at least on the planes that aren't really different from the non-perked ones like the Spit and F4U).
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Well I came from Wbarbirds, but the Freehost variant.
We had the RPS and it was actually a great challenge.
Ok with Freehost you didn't pay and you could come and go as you pleased without worrying about the fact that you where paying.
This did not stop people coming in even when its was early war and some of the engagements where very interesting with early war or midwar.
As a balance it was said that the 262 was too good in August 44 so they moved its entrance to August 45 (saw too little of it)
Ok there was rarely much more than 100, but that was the server not the game...
It was quite interesting to see attacks made by allies in the early war period against cv's, particulary before the Avenger came out, the only plane that could do it was the SBD.
I suppose one reason the Freehost RPS worked was they are trying and almost succeeding by addings many planes to fill in the gaps..
As said an RS is a challenge, all those who think 'Oh I cant fly my xxx, and log off, well you are can't be a great pilot then as you can't fly the other planes.......
An RPS means that pilots get forced to fly all types and in the end become even better pilots.
I keep trying to fly with the Hurri Mk 1 here in the MA and know very well that 90% of the other planes are at least 4 years newer by design and I tend to die, buts its a challange and occasionally I get a kill.
RPS's is a good idea, but don't restrict by nation. It seems many are against it from WB experience, but don't forget AH is NOT WB, and I dont seem to see many who have tried the WB-FH, which although is wb 277 is consirably better in the way it works (only reason I left was pilot attitude, and lack of teamwork)
An idea would be possible to have rps and perks linked, so that for example a plane is due and if you want it say a month or two early it will cost you. as a perked plane gets older it gets cheaper (until it becomes free)
In fact that makes me think you could have a RPS perk system, so that say late war planes are available but cost mega perks...early war, later in war they become free...
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I find myself agreeing with Lazs – have an early war area in the MA. But, given the gangbang mentality that we have all seen, I predict that Doofus-Dweebius would fly all the way there from the late war area of the map in an LA7 to stir it with the Spit1a/Hurri-1 etc.
I was prompted to write this post after a jabo mission I was flying with one or two others was porked by an enemy LA7 which I eventually killed, but not before having to dump ord. It just doesn’t seem right that when flying any difficult mission, and jabo off the CV is not easy, the ubiquitous LA7 should show up on an opportunist sortie.
I dislike N1Ks, but the LA7 is a nonsense aircraft if ever there was one. A few weeks ago I was in a 109G2 and had levelled out and was cruising at about 300mph. I ran into an LA7 slightly higher than me on a reciprocal heading. In light of what happened he clearly had more E than I did. We merged horizontally, and after the oh-so-predictable HO attempt :rolleyes: I thought it best to press on at 300mph and attempt to extend away. Well the damned LA7 rolled over and did a split S, but then zoomed right back up to my altitude, gave chase, caught up and nailed me! What BS. at a combined merge speed of at least 600mph, and possibly closer to 700, we would have been moving apart by 880 feet per second, and that’s a statute mile every six seconds. For him to roll over, dive down by about 1000 feet, zoom back up, and catch up to me, well... that would require a velocity (as opposed to speed – I take it you know the difference) change of at least 800mph. Remember that not only did he have to catch up the distance created after the missed HO, but there’s the extra distance added on for the size of that split S. To have reversed as quickly as he did would have bled away a huge amount of E, but oh! Not in an LA7 it would seem.
People are pouring cold water on consideration of having an RPS, and yet there’s often contentious debate about which aircraft needs to be perked or unperked. Doesn’t this amount to the same thing? We simply want to avoid an arena full of the latest über plane du jour. I say keep the N1K, as we need a plane for newbies and the unskilled to fly. Keep the LA7 for the same reason, but something needs to be done about them being flown by experienced players to pork reasonable attempts by the enemy! In AKPizzaland™, it was less of a problem because fields were more spread out, but now with fields five minutes apart, well it just gets tedious.
If not an RPS, then at least perk some of the nonsense planes. I think 10pp for an LA7 would be a reasonable price to pay. Let the dweebs accumulate points in their N1Ks, and spend them on LA7s. :D:D:D
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I stand by my original post. Anyone who wishes can look at any time period they wish and conclude what they wish. Facts can be so inconvenient.
In truth Revvin, I was very dissapointed in what I concluded. You need to put this particular soapbox away. It does not suit you.
Roughly translated as "ah toejam he's right I checked back a few months and see he's flown a variety of planes"
In the last 3 or 4 TOD's off the top of my head I've flown the TBM, Lancaster, B17, B26, Ar234, F4U-1D, Mosquito, Spitfire Mk5, Spitfire Mk9,190A5, 190A8, P38, F6F, Boston, A20, P40 and a few other's.
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Revvin - what he really means is "Don't blind me with the facts - I know what I'm talking about!" :rolleyes:
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bettle... if some attention starved dufus wants to fly a late war plane 3 or 4 sectors and maybe over a 40k mountain range just to fight early war planes that are at low alt or in huge canyons... no big deal. He will quickly tire of doing nothing or... of being humiliated. I don't feel too threatened by one low on fuel D9 or pee 51 who is attempting to B&Z my wildcat or spit one in a crowd down in some canyon. He isn't going to make it home and anything less would be called a "capture" maybe. he would just look silly to no purpose.
I would also say that in the other section, the mid late... have one or two days at the end of the tour where the "perk" planes are free. get rid of the perk system entirely.
lazs
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Waaa! I didn't get my way so I'll whine to someone who will listen!
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9563
Hehe!
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The MA will always be the arcade furball sim some of u like to call it, its the bread and butter that pays for the game. Some of you turds will never get it...
Player comes home, tough day at work perhaps wants to have a quick 30 minute flight in a plane he is familiar with (therefore requiring the least amount of brain waves+) so he clicks his usual pee51(an example) enjoys his 30 mins
Player comes home to find RPS in place... Its been several weeks since he last had to fly early war... not so familiar with the planes available or how to best use them.. gets frustrated before he takes off...
Guys Petition for an RPS arena if you must, I will gladly support a second arena for an RPS. But leave the MA alone, it works! it has proven that over the past few years. (errm well it sometimes works at the moment....)
Motives for flyin any of the planes in AH differ from player to player. It maybe squad based (TAS for example) or it maybe kbman based(whatever illicits the most whines(nik exempted)) or whatever.
We play the game for our own reasons, for some people 'fun' is playing the same old same old against friends.
For others its learning something new.
Others it maybe the constant quest to find the uber ride. And for others its historical matchups.
AH caters to most players. The MA caters to the majority and earns the most income. The CT caters to the RPS and historical matchup guys to a limited degree which will improve over time.
Its obvious the RPS is supported by the minority, so why subject the majority to this method of play? You can't force someone to enjoy it...
SKurj
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The plain and simple fact is the first week of the RPS at WB the attendence was way down. People just took the week off.
Late war the LW tended to fly less because of the Pony hordes.
It didn't work.
The other point that amazes me is that if more people wanted to fly in the CT or HA, they would.
They don't.
A couple of answers that some people can't come to grips with.
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Noticed Cabby metioned all uber all the time = air quake....
In RPS you ALWAYS have an UBER not matter what....
Just like the La7 whines now... In 1941 one plane will be the obvious choice for the week... In 1943 one plane will be the obvious choice...
If AH was an early war only sim do you not think we would still have a plane we could compare to the 'La7' or 'nik' now?
If you don't ... you aren't thinking...
I played the RPS AvA setup over in aw3 for awhile and what a crock that was... A majority of guys would change countries to fly that day's uber ride, basically turnin into an Uber gangbang all the time from whichever side had the uber ride at the time. Thats a worst case scenario obviously. I'll fly a non-AvA RPS arena IF there are numbers playing it...
SKurj
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"For him to roll over, dive down by about 1000 feet, zoom back up, and catch up to me, well. . . "
If he was moving at 300 mph or greater, you can bet your bellybutton his Split S would've cost him alot more than 1000' in altitude, at least in real world physics. Probably closer to 5000', unless he backed his throttle to zero and really reefed it in hard and tight, spilling off loads of E, but if he'd done that then there's no way he'd have been able to catch you before you got completely out of sight. Most late war fighters could barely make a 1000' flat turn (most could not, actually), much less a Split S that tight. I think one could concievably pull a Split S only losing 2000' in a real fighter, provided it was done with throttle reduced to idle. Even so, it's incredibly unlikely he'd be set up to catch you afterward. Had he pulled a gentle immelman, though, that'd be different. Long chase maybe, but he could probably catch you.
This is just another good testimony to the fact that no flight sim seems to know how to incorporate physics into flight models. Dive accelerations, especially, are much lower (several times, I think) than they should be on all aircraft, energy doesn't bleed off like it should in a hard turn at high speeds (how many times have you pulled a gentle 2G zoom in Warbirds with more smash than the guy you just merged with head to head, only to have him pull a 5G immelman and end up closing on your 6?), mass seems to have little to do with zoom climbs, and the list goes on and on and on.
Oh, BTW, I couldn't care less about an RPS in AH because, at this time, I don't fly it. I do, however, think that every sim should have an arena that is extremely historically accurate, with proper terrain, planeset, etc. There are more historical junkies than you may think, and many people who fly something like that just don't give a crap for the "Fragger" arenas (read as Main Arenas) in Warbirds and AH. In addition, many people who don't think they would care for it end up actually preferring it over the Fragger Arena they used to defend.
Something else I don't think I'd like about AH, the Perk system. I think it'd be much better to limit rare aircraft by numbers, rather than making people earn points to fly them. I prefer a "first come, first serve" system personally, then just limit all aircraft to their historical strengths. Of course this would only allow about 1 Me 262 in the air at a time in an arena with a population of 400. This would only work in an arena where all fighters are available for both sides, though, because Axis fighters were becoming an endangered species later in the war. It would take some careful thinking to get a system that would work well for everybody, but I think it would be better.
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Stickman, fyi, Combat Theatre is our "historical arena", as well as the scenarios. If there were as many as historical followers out there as you claim, we'd have more than 10 online in the Combat theatre, rather than the 400+ online in the Main arena, think about that for awhile ;)
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AH is probably just like Warbirds, with a "herd" that goes wherever the other people are. I've seen it with the HA in Warbirds. Put 15 guys in there and before long it'll fill up, you just have to get the first 15 in, which is usually impossible. The HA in Warbirds has a wonderful setup with only slightly different icon ranges, etc. as in the MA, and it's almost identical to the WWII Arena (which is where everybody flys now). I think arena setup has less to do with it's population than the arena name. If you could come up with a name for a historically accurate arena with an RPS that would catch the eye of subscribers it'd probably be more popular than the MA. The HA in Warbirds, by the way, has no RPS (most of the time, at least). If no RPS were what people wanted, don't you think the HA would be full all the time instead of the WWII Arena? It's just that not enough people are willing to camp in a near empty arena for awhile to get more people into it.
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The cross-whine to AGW was a classic. Rude where are you?
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I believe the real "historics" go to where the sims lay, such as IL-2, or WW2 Online, where you have more aircraft management happening in those sims.(shrugs)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Waaa! I didn't get my way so I'll whine to someone who will listen!
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9563
Hehe!
beet1e, the title of this thread is "How about a Rolling Plane set?" Then you get answers you don't like you go whining at AGW? I mean was it an honest question or did you just want validation.
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"I believe the real "historics" go to where the sims lay, such as IL-2, or WW2 Online, where you have more aircraft management happening in those sims.(shrugs)"
That may be largely correct, though I think it would be quite simple for AH or WB to set up arenas with more carefully managed planesets. Something I'm looking forward to trying out is the mission based arena that is rumored to be put inth AH in the next release. That's just what I've been looking for in Warbirds, and forward to with Target:Rabaul. The scenarios do this to an extent, but it's generally messy because it's run by humans. Mistakes get made and it causes problems with gameplay. Also, a lack of a complete set of ground vehicles and other important aspects of war sort of ruins the experience for me in the S3's. It's getting there, but very slowly, and Warbirds is suffering now for their lack of development for so long. I said in a thread on AGW about a year ago that their slack time was about to jump up and bite them right in the ass, I'm just sorry to have been proven right.
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Stickman, pencil two of us anxious for Targetware.
Good posts by the way.
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Oh, well diddly the RPS then. It was just a suggestion. I thought more people were tired of being gangbanged by uberplanes but it seems I was wrong. I would have thought that more people would have liked AH to be a little more like WW2, but as has been pointed out to me in other threads, AH has got bugger-all to do with the real WW2, and vice-versa. :confused:
Ripsnort! Thanks for that link!! Saves me from hunting down my thread on the AGW board, which does NOT send an email when a new post is added. :D Don't misunderstand me though: I didn't like having to wait 8 days for my favourite plane at ToD rollover. But what I like even less is the constant late war vulch/gangbangs and LA7 opportunists to be seen in the AH MA. I freely admit that I was/am crap in T&B early war planes. But I like having happy neighbours. Seems like there's an even split amongst the combined AH/WB communities for the RPS. I personally hated the first week and disliked the pony hordes in the last days. But it made the community at large happy, and therefore I was happy. I know that's a difficult concept to convey to a bunch of guys who don't understand why they should give 6-calls, and might even say "so what if you get killed? it's just a game" :rolleyes:
Stickman - thanks for backing me up about that 109G2/LA7 engagement. I do not have film of it. I have described it as accurately as I can, and was absolutely gobsmacked when that LA7 caught up with me!
Funked - I'm tired of kissing your arse. It's your turn to kiss mine. :D
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Beetle, good things will come in time, I don't think the answer is another RPS, HTC has a knack for creating ideas or expanding on existing ideas and expanding on them, thats what I expect in the future. Separate arenas aside, I think AH will have something we all like, if it lives up to its historical reputation.
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Why is it that when 1 person presents the RPS suggestion is doing it on behalf of "everyone" and anyone that doesn't like the RPS is being selfish?
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"Selfish is the word others use when they can't get you to do what they want"
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Thrawn -
beet1e, the title of this thread is "How about a Rolling Plane set?" Then you get answers you don't like you go whining at AGW? I mean was it an honest question or did you just want validation.
Forgive me for not having answered your query in my earlier post. I believe you posted just as I was preparing my earlier post.
The real issue is not whether we have an RPS or not. I was a little taken aback by some of the responses, some of which were made in the name of a player's self interest. For many, the name of the game seems to be "Every man for himself". I have pontificated about this at length in other threads, but I believe this one (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44859) expresses my point of view the best. Read it if you have 10 minutes to spare!
My reasons for the "cross-whine" as Funked put it are that I found the WB community to be very different from that of AH. It's something with which I have struggled for a long time. In WB, I had people going out of their way to help me right from my first day. In AH, I would get the RTFM or Try Alt+F4 smartarse suggestions. That is very sad. So when I got guys eschewing the RPS concept for their own selfish interests, I was eager for an interpretation of this from my former WB playmates. It was not done for the reasons given in Ripsnort's somewhat tongue-in-cheek response, and I think even he would concede that :)
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""Selfish is the word others use when they can't get you to do what they want""
It's also the word you use to describe someone who's placed his short term self interest above that of long term good for the whole. It can be applied both ways in this discussion I've been reading here, though as everyone reading this post should realize, selfishness isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm not attempting to insult either side of the argument. . . . .
Against my better judgement, and at the risk of becoming the same sort of persona non grata I have on AGW (not that it bothers me, the opinion of my opinion, mind you;)), I'll say that, while some seem to think an RPS in AH would result in mass departure from AH, I don't think that would happen. However, I don't think it's a good idea anyway because, just from reading this forum, it seems to be very unpopular. Aside from that, using an RPS in an arena where each side can fly any nationality of aircraft is rather pointless. Would an RPS give the fans of early war aircraft their moment in the sun? Sure, but it would also force people who don't care for them (I don't, personally, and usually don't bother to fly most of the first week of the TOD in Warbirds because, as someone above mentioned, there's no P38) to fly them as well, and as the majority seem to be of the latter type, it's just not a good idea to enforce a RPS in AH.
As has already been suggested, a seperate arena with an RPS of 30 days would probably be the best way to go (21 days is just too short if you ask me).
Even better would be a total war arena, with assigned missions, infantry and most other equipment that was used in WWII set up on a 60 day rotation. WWII Online has a good concept as far as they went, but they have no real goal to achieve. It's just an endless (and pointless) frag-fest. Had they set up a timeline, with equipment becoming available at certain points it would've been much more appealing to me. Don't get me wrong, I still would probably only fly the P38 (if it ever shows up in that sim, and I have my doubts), but having an actual timeline can go a great deal towards immersion, and the last 6 weeks of the tour of duty, I'd be having a frigging blast. If they'd had more aircraft available (that weren't just absurdly modeled as in the case of the 109E) and a timeline, I'd still have my account. Hell, I kept it for almost a year barely flying at all before I finally gave up on it. My patience knows almost no bounds :D.
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"My reasons for the "cross-whine" as Funked put it are that I found the WB community to be very different from that of AH. It's something with which I have struggled for a long time. In WB, I had people going out of their way to help me right from my first day. In AH, I would get the RTFM or Try Alt+F4 smartarse suggestions."
Don't toejam yourself. There are some great guys at warbirds, and there are some very helpful guys there also. They aren't always the same guys either, if you take my meaning:).
There are just as many childish antics going on at AGW as there are here, I'd say. Nobody would ever talk to someone the way some of those allegedly "nice" guys do on that forum. If they did, they'd go home missing some teeth, which I pointed out to someone and this, as I recall, got me accused of threatening physical violence on someone's person. I deleted the thread because it became absurd, not because a few dimwits wanted to gang up and have a "Stick-fry".
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Thanks for your reply. The only other MMOL sim I've played was WWIIOL, and I found the people online there much more help then here. For what that's worth. I hope the "helping for credit" fixes that.
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usually don't bother to fly most of the first week of the TOD in Warbirds because, as someone above mentioned, there's no P38
Thats it in a nutshell. Your not alone. I would venture to say your in the majority. The AGW boards are not in anyway representitive of the majority. If that were so, the HA arena would have hundreds of people in it and there wouldn't be any icons ;) There aren't and never will be.
Beet1e you continually chant for the "greater good" and advocate sacrifice to further that "good"
The "greater good" is in all reality what you want, when you want it and nothing more....
So how does your arguement carry any weight ??
REAL good liberal smoke and mirrors attempt though :D
You missed your calling ;)
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I don't think that a RPS belongs in the MA simply because so many folks hate it. I liked it however. I like being forced to fly different birds.
I don't think that the RPS is as much to blame for WBs failure as some folks say. I left WB because of: the high cost, worse FM and lack of improvements.
eskimo
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Skurj: Player comes home, tough day at work perhaps wants to have a quick 30 minute flight in a plane he is familiar with (therefore requiring the least amount of brain waves+) so he clicks his usual pee51(an example) enjoys his 30 mins
Wrong! Try this:
Player comes home, tough day at work perhaps wants to have a quick 30 minute flight in a plane he is familiar with (therefore requiring the least amount of brain waves+) so he clicks his usual F4F-4 or P40B (an example) and cannot enjoy his 30 minutes dodging hords of LA7s, N1ks, P51Ds, 109G10s, 190D9s, Typhoons and the occasional ME262.
This turd thinks your arguments smells.
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Originally posted by Puke
Player comes home, tough day at work perhaps wants to have a quick 30 minute flight in a plane he is familiar with (therefore requiring the least amount of brain waves+) so he clicks his usual F4F-4 or P40B (an example) and cannot enjoy his 30 minutes dodging hords of LA7s, N1ks, P51Ds, 109G10s, 190D9s, Typhoons and the occasional ME262.
Player comes home, goes to play and the plane he wants to fly simply is not availabe.
Its easy to avoid hordes of anything. Its not quite as easy to wait a week so you can fly your favorite ride.
AKDejaVu
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we dont have the planes in ah to make any sort of good rps.
wbs dont either they just fake it.
Thats why you hear the whines my plane xx needs to be moved up on the rps.
Its a pandoras box not worth messing with.
The mission arena is coming and even then we dont have all the planes we need to do much more then "the mighty eighth"
Even then no b24s and a hosty of other planes.
Look at our spit 9 hybrid or the typhoon we have.
we would go from a 109e4 to f4 missing some great planes in the middle. same with the 109g6 to g10 we have.
No vvs at all. or japaneese planes.
no early 190s.
So you see any rps we run will be just as make believe as the open arena.
Also where planes do most fly in wbs rps early?
109s then at the end they are in p51s.
We dont have the planes for BoB. The 1st week of rps would be 109e4 spit 1 hurri 1 f4f p40 and a6m2.
Guess what setups being run in the ct right now? good ahead guess?
:)
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In RPS you ALWAYS have an UBER not matter what....
That is a trueism.
The difference is in an RPS you'll have for example..
Day 1-2-3
Spit 1's, Zeke 2's, 109E's out the gate. No F4F's or P40's, it's too early yet. Remember this is a RPS.
So you'll have an entire arena with 75% of the planes being Emils. The Uber plane of it's day.
Day 4 the Franz and the P40 enter...
Then 75% of the arena are in 109F's...
Just wait until the 190 comes around :D With a RPS it's day in the sun lasts nearly a WEEK :eek: ( hehe I was a 190 jock, didn't bother with the first week...SUNDAY was the day ) You'll see more 190's then you've EVER seen around here :D
If you haven't done an RPS on a tour basis before, it sounds like nirvana. Great choices/variety etc. etc. But it becomes a 3 or 4 plane arena.
Quite a few planes are regularly flown on a daily basis around here. Look at the popularity of the FM2 and Wildcat for example.
You limit choice with a RPS, and if you think there's too many La7's or Nikys about. You haven't seen the 190 or Pony hordes that are an extention of an RPS.
Not to mention the diehard single plane lovers that don't bother to fly until there ride comes available.
Think about it. The P51D was only available for 4 days out of a 21 day tour.
Any pony pilots out there ??
While were at it, any 38, D9 or 47D pilots out there.
You get one week out of four too :D
Corsair, F6F and Spit IX pilots have it made. They get to fly their rides for HALF the tour :eek:
The tour here is a month long...
Sounds great doesn't it ??
;)
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AGW RPS Thread (http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9476)
this is the very thing that would be argued over if ah had an rps
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Puke
Player comes home and tries to click his F4f... oh wait a minute its not available for another 2 weeks..he logs or... once again has to fly something he doesn't want to....
Where as now the player who clicks the early war rides knows what he is gettin himself into before he clicks it. If its his favourite ride he knows how to deal with the uber rides... He shoots em down...
If ya can't dodge any of those uber rides u listed in the early war planes with relative ease the majority of the time... that early war ride ain't your favourite cuz u doin it wrong +)
SKurj
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HEY... even that RPS has 'UBER' rides that dominate... who woulda figured...
SKurj
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Hey Thrawn.. wandering off-topic abit.. but
I have never found anything but silence over the comms in ww2ol...
Solo players in ww2ol are left out in the cold. I got sick of flying 20-30 mins to find a fight EVERY time i played that thing...
Though the tank game is good, the comms system sucks for non-squad players
SKurj
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Personally I should be happy with RPS. I had no problem in Warbirds with it. It gave me an immersion of pilot career from beginning of WWII to its end which I miss in AH.
But the fact is that RPS in AH main arena would make unhappy many people. Probably more unhappy than happy as I see the responses so It would not be a good idea from commercial point of view. Instead of making RPS in main arena - how about to transform CT arena (unfortunately not very succesful) into "second" main arena with RPS and two sided split (Axis, Allied) ? It would make happy both, the RPS lovers and CT lovers too as they will get almost the same as CT - arena with historic matchup :)
Wouldn`t it be worth to try it?
czpetr
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Skurj: If ya can't dodge any of those uber rides u listed in the early war planes with relative ease the majority of the time... that early war ride ain't your favourite cuz u doin it wrong +)
Not everyone gets more than 1,000 kills for a tour. That equates to a lot of stick time which equates to experience. I'm sure you can handle yourself in an F4F-4 in the arena pretty well, but not most players. Most definitely can't take one deep into enemy territory.
To be honest, what I'd like to see is a graduated perk plan. To each his own. But I definitely do NOT want to see Axis vs Allies. What's sorta funny, I basically have come to fly one aircraft the past couple months but I'm okay with an RPS.
And it's not really about an aircraft being uber in the arena. At least not for me. It's about letting some early-war aircraft have some parity for a short time. An A6M2 or 109E being uber is definitely not the same as when an LA7 or ME262 is uber.
Cheers.
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The F4F-4 has 637 kills and has been killed 739 times.
- 102 for the F4F-4
The La-7 has 10803 kills and has been killed 8655 times.
+ 2148 for the La-7
I guess Skurji is the only one who knows how to dodge... :D
Why do I fly the Me109G-2? I really don't know.. I mean...
the great thing about the MA is that you can fly any
plane ya want (be sure to practice dodging offline though)
so why not give in and fly the La-7?
Think about it - some guy comes home from 8 hours of work,
logs in to have some fun in his always available fav ride,
why not just shoot him down in a La-7?
btw, Puke's posts were spot-on as far as I'm concerned...
"we already have an RPS, but as long as you stick to the late-
war planes you probably won't notice..."
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>I guess AH is for the *ME Generation* - and to hell with >everyone else. :(
I like this guy's thinking. I also like that he said that, because it's prolly true.
<< Sick to death of the "ME Generation"
OTOH, I saw RPS *DESTROY* an Axis -vs- Allies arena in AW.
If you're gonna try this I highly advise NOT trying in the MA. It really doesn't go over as well as the *theory* says it will.
Aney up boys, my bets on the table.
Animal (AWFT)
Originally posted by beet1e
Gentlemen! You are wimps!
You should not be thinking about how it would affect *you personally*, but of the AH populace as a whole. But then again I guess AH is for the *ME Generation* - and to hell with everyone else. :(
An RPS would not destroy the game. In WB, it was not the RPS that did that, but the WW2A combined with an idiotic RPS. And that was why I left WB myself. OK, I don't care if we have Spit v Spit fights, or 190 v 190. By allowing each side the same planes, at least we wont have an arena imbalance. In WB, Doofus-Dweebius would switch to whichever side had the best plane - strongest, fastest, most powerful guns etc. An RPS would not cause that.
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~A
Originally posted by Otto
"Selfish is the word others use when they can't get you to do what they want"
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stickman... there probly are more than the 10-30 guys that haunt the CT that would be interested in an "historical" RPS.. And... I agree.. seperate arenas don't work.. People go where the crowd and the fun is.
HTC could close down the main and leave only the CT with an "historical" RPS and the ct numbers would jump to... oh... maybe a hundred or so. maybe AH could work it's way up to the huge numbers that WB attracts.. maybe without half of em being comped accounts like WB even.
yeah, with an RPS AH might become just like WB.... desserted.
lazs
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MA has an RPS - it's just stuck at 1945
Lasz2, I fly CT, I don't haunt it - 10 to 30 people are more than enough to ensure my type of fun.
"people go where the crowd and the fun is?", sure, people also buy way more Britney Spears CD's
than they buy Spock's Beard CD's... MA is mainstream. If we need the MA so that HTC gets
money from you so that I can fly in the CT, so be it.
I'm not all to interested as to what you do in the MA, but I'm even less interested in what you
think that CTlers think, thank you.
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OK, so no RPS. But Lazs's idea about having a small area of pizza from which only early war planes can take off is the best alternative I've heard. This was tried in WB (Generations arena), and for example the Japanese planes could take off only from a couple of airfields in the middle. Thing is, we did get other Axis planes flying all the way over rather than flying a zeke. LOL - I don't blame them.
Oh well, I don't feel so bad. I killed a LA7 from my 190A5 today, and all's well in the world. :D
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well beetle.. I would go further than the wb idea of making only certain planes available at central fields as it would simply make those planes not viable after the central fields were captured or, as you say, whjen someone wants to fly a sector or so into them with a later war plane.
No... I would have more seperation... several sectors and a 40k mountain range say (very possible in the new larger maps). I would also want sepeate resets for the early war area. The point being that everyone could log on at any time 24/7 and fly the plane of thheir choice in an atmosphere of variety, parity and choice.
robosan... not only do I not care what ct players think but it appears that no one else does either... heck... even ct players don't care what ct players think.. look at the ct BB.
lazs
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"seperate arenas don't work.. People go where the crowd and the fun is. "
--Lazs
Lazs, you're flat out wrong about that. Seaprate arenas DO work, and work well. That isn't theory, that's fact as proven by over 10 years of use in AW. Now I won't claim they're always the best solution, and they're certainly not the ONLY solution (your area idea might work perfectly well too), but having separate arenas is indeed a viable solution to several of AH's problems and one which I support.
Now I can see where you might have gotten the impression you have--AH's alternate arenas are laughable at best--but done properly such a system DOES work.
J_A_B
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I think the trick to making an RPS work would be NOT to combine it with an Axis/Allied setup.
As long as all sides have access to any plane in the current RPS you can avoid the advantage swings but still allow the utilization of the entire plane set.
Regards,
Wab
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JAB... If Im wrong about seperate arenas then you cerrtainly couldn't tell byu looking at AW right now.. As for past AW .. I don't know about it except for Dos days. Currently... no sim I know does well with seperate arenas and... no matter what... seperate arenas don't work for squads (divisive)and for sims that don't have a lot orf players on 24/7. Seperate arenas divide the community...
Seperate arenas just allways have one with no one in it and the one with no one in it allways has an excuse . Mostly, this is players saying that it would be full if it were modified the way THEY want..
RPS is better if it is not allied vs axis (as is any arena) but... it still doesn't cater to the people who won't fly when they can't fly their favorite ride. Like it or not.... there are a lot of folks like that so let's just deal with that reality.
What I am getting from a lot of the axis vs allied guys and the "realism" guys and the RPS guys is.... "sure, we realize that it may cut HTC's income in half or worse if he caters to us but that is a sacrafice we are willing to make".
lazs
lazs
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I have never been able to associate reducing selection with increasing diversity.
AKDejaVu
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AW operated with quite a few arenas. Most were RR but thats where the player base wanted to be.
There was ETO1, ETO2 and BIG PAC all RR as well as korea and fightertown
The one arena most tried to get into was eto1, but there were quite a few who were dedicated to eto2. Was strange wandering into eto2 (when eto1 was full) to see lots of names i didn't recognize.
Big pac had its own following as well of course (for the bloo planes as much as anything)
If HTC went with 2 250 player arenas we would have the 1st with 250ppl in it and a second with 150+ in it during primetime and offhours likely just #1 with players in it at slow times. As the player base grows dedication to the 2nd would come at least with the north american players.
Myself, i like the idea of multiple arenas but i can understand that the costs associated may be hard fer htc to take.
In AW when eto1 was full it rarely took more than 20 minutes to get in. With 250 players there is always someone loggin out.
Perhaps reducing the # of clients to the MA and running somethin like lazs idea would work in MA#2...
SKurj
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"Currently... no sim I know does well with seperate arenas "
A slightly different issue than the idea of separate arenas not working at all Just because AW is no longer around (thanks to corporate mis-management) doesn't invalidate the lessons learned there.
I'm just saying that done properly, separate arenas can work well. Set up poorly (like currently in AH), they fail. You mention that for separate arenas to work a game needs fairly consistent 24/7 numbers, which AH does not currently have--that does pose a problem, although possibly no more of a problem than we already have (Mindanao is fun with 250 on but sort of crowded with 500 on and rather empty when there's 80 online).
Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread so I think i'll stop discussing this here :)
J_A_B
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I have never been able to associate reducing selection with increasing diversity.
Sorry DJ but that just doesn't make much sense to me.
Does AH allow me to fly an F-86? Does AH allow me to fly an F-16? Does AH allow me to fly an F-22? Well, no. Is AH then limiting my selection and reducing diversity? Well....yes.
By its very nature AH is already limiting your selection and diversity by limiting your selections to a particular historical window that is CURRENTLY framed across the entire span of WWII.
Its perfectly valid for AH to limit you selection and diversity to the aircraft available within the context of the historical window they are trying to present. What ever the boundries of that frame are.
A RPS would simply be divinding a single large window into a series of smaller sequiential windows. At each frame, its still valid to limit your selection and diversity to the aircraft available within the context of the historical window they are trying to present.
They'd just be presenting a series of smaller windows instead of one big one. Its only a difference of degree, not of kind.
Btw, I don't think the planeset is filled out enough yet for a RPS. ;)
Regards,
Wab
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no JAB.... didn't mean your points weren't valid but I don't really want relaxed realism in AH. I would point out tho that we have currently 2 very different arenas in AH and that one is deserted.
lazs
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"Currently... no sim I know does well with seperate arenas "
A slightly different issue than the idea of separate arenas not working at all Just because AW is no longer around (thanks to corporate mis-management) doesn't invalidate the lessons learned there.
I'm just saying that done properly, separate arenas can work well. Set up poorly (like currently in AH), they fail. You mention that for separate arenas to work a game needs fairly consistent 24/7 numbers, which AH does not currently have--that does pose a problem, although possibly no more of a problem than we already have (Mindanao is fun with 250 on but sort of crowded with 500 on and rather empty when there's 80 online).
Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread so I think i'll stop discussing this here :)
J_A_B
J_A_B is correct. AW demise had nothing to do with its multiple arenas and AW showed that multiple arenas do work and is a viable alternative. I remember back when AW4W came out and we had 5 RR Euro arenas, everyone of them full to capacity on most nights. But that was when the average numbers of players a weekend routinely went over 1000+.
Ack-Ack
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AKDejaVu: I have never been able to associate reducing selection with increasing diversity.
It's actually a simple principal in and of itself. Say for example everyone can duke it out in a boxing ring and the choices are a gun, a club, a slingshot and some ropes. You know everyone is going to take the gun with possibly some occasional nutball selecting a club. The one selection (gun) makes all other selections outclassed and really invalid. Take away the gun and those other options become more viable and you'll see a greater selection. I'm not sure that's a very good example though and I'm sure you can come up with a better one but I hope you get the gist. As for applying this to AH?....
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NO NO and NO! No RPS. Go the WB if that's your gig.
Hawkeye
The Original Flying Tigers
RRROOOAAARRR!!
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I'd love a Rolling plane set!!
And then there would be no more "That plane wouldnt survive in ma" excuse when someone wants a plane earlier then 1943 :D ;)