Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: faminz on August 17, 2002, 05:34:14 PM
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yesterday I had the honour to sit with and gather experiences and stories from a real WW2 Spitfire Ace.
He is Flight Lieutenant Alan Peart, DFC, who flew for the RAF and RNZAF mainly in Spitfires. he is 80 years young.
First posting was with 610 squadron (County of Chester) 12 group in 1942, then posted to 11 group flying Spit V's in sweeps over France. He flew with Johnnie Johnson. Then flew in Algeria with the British 8th army, and shot down his first kills there (SM79 and Bf109G). Flew Mk IX's there. Saw the use of the fritz X guided missiles against the Warspite (and shot down one of the
Do217K's). Then on to operations over Italy and then to Burma with 81 squadron and spitfire Mk VIII's (which he considers by far the best mark he ever flew). Flew at Imphal and fought in his most intense battle over a forward field called Broadway (100 miles BEHIND enemy lines) where the strip was bounced by 24 Ki43's (Oscars) and he scrambled and fought them essentially alone for 40minutes before they retreated and he could land (in a very exhausted condition). All spits bar his were destroyed!
He was shot at by B-25s mitchells (mistakenly) and uttered a recorded memorable line of "Look out the bastards are shooting
at us!".
Our squad (52nd KIW stauch Friends) provided a great welcome for Alan yesterday He appeared to really love the experience, cracking up laughing at times, especially in the respone to his comments re american chatter in B-17s during the war!! "For gods sake shut up, you want to tell them where we are?" Kiwis were apparently much tighter lipped!
During the demonstartion of AH yesterday he led the squad in a fighter sweep, and despite nearly all of us biting the dust, again enjoyed it greatly and I wish you all couldve been here
to listen to his comments. There was lots of humour at our end.
Some specific tips he gave were:
The spit mk IX cruises best at 2600 rpm and should use 3000rpm for combat.
He never used tracer as it warned the enemy.
He ALWAYS made a steep sideslipping turn to land as you just never knew if there was an enemy around.
Silk scarves weren't for neck protection, they were just 'all the rage'
Johnnie Johnson was a great CO and a nice guy.
The spit had a range of about 1.5hrs without drop tanks, 2hrs with.
The radio had a range of about 100miles at 40k alt.
Yes they did regularly cruise to combat at 40k
Spread out laterally about 400 - 500yds apart and cover each other when in a fighter sweep.
Orbit the field after takeoff to formate properly.
the orders were to 'attack the enemy' so if you see 1 , go for him.
in a fighter sweep dont bother with 1 lone enemy tho, just scare him off and head for the main action.
Once battle is joined, drop the tanks and its every man for himself
untill ammo or gas is low.
The spit would turnfight in europe but B&Z in SE asia. (me109s vs
Ki43s).
Bostons were great ground attack planes, the rear gun was used to attack the ground.
The marauder was a death trap, very 'under winged' used to see them struggling into the air for miles at a VERY slow climb rate when escorting them.
Oh yeah, and americans chatter too much... LOL.
All probably obvious and sensible and what many of us do anyway but it
was great to hear it confirmed by an actual ace. (he had 6 confirmed
kills).
In his first flight offline he shot down two drones easily, something Ive seen a lot of newbies fail at.
Just one extra story:
He told me of an untold story where he was in North Africa, had just taken off with a UK pilot and they saw 12 Me109s at 9oclock. He called the attack (as that was their orders) and turned towards them. The english pilot, turned the other way and went home. So Alan fought 12 Me109s in his lone spit until they gave up out of gas or ammo.
His technique was: as they bounced him in pairs he turned under their noses but kept an eye behind for the next pair. As soon as the first pair overshot he did a tight 180 flick turn and went under the noses of the next pair. Gradually losing altitude... he wondered what would happen when he finally did run out of alt. Luckily they gave up before he did and he finally got home to the base where he found them packing his things as they assumed he was a goner...
With that and the fight against 24 oscars in Burma Id say Alan Peart was either one very skilful pilot or very very lucky. Probably both!
If anyone wants a copy of his story logon to http://www.nzebooks.com/ and look for the book called Spitfire the ANZACS or The RAF through colonial eyes. Possibly on this page
http://www.venturapublications.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VP&Product_Code=CW0802&Category_Code=AB
Maybe Hitech could use some input from him. Certainly Mitsu could for Spitfire sounds. After all, he was actually there!
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Not his regular plane but the one he grabbed to scramble!
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Great post!
Thanks to both you and Flight Lieutenant Alan Peart, Faminz!
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He flew in both the ETO and PTO.I would be talking to this guy and recording as much as I could!
Frodo
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TY Very much for sharing that with us, I realy would like to see some plane's with markings from that theater(cbi) other than our P40 that is:)
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That is excellant!!!..
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Thankyou Faminz for posting this, a great story to be sure. :)
I note with interest his 'favourite' Spit, the Mk VIII.
I recall reading somewhere that Clive Caldwell, among others, said the same thing, basically " The Spit VIII is the sweetest of the lot to fly in and fight with".
What was it about the mark eight that made it better than the other marks?
I know that the IX was merely an 'interim' setup, untill the MKVIII airframe could be put into production. ( the IX was merely a MkV airframe with a different Merlin packed into it, intended to fill the gap untill the VIII was available in numbers).
Why was the IX in production for so long if the VIII was so much better?
What airframe modifications were made?
Why did these modifications make such a differance? or should I say 'how'?
HTC, what's the chance of us getting a Spit VIII to try out? (lol, probably one of the only times a Luftweenie is gonna ask for more Spits ! ) :)
Kinda off topic here, but when I first left school, I went working in central Queensland droving sheep with a bunch of Kiwi blokes.
I was the youngest on the crew by 50 years, which didnt impress me much....untill I discovered that three of these old geezers were WWII veteren fighter pilots....two of 'em flew Corsairs, the other P40s, all in the PTO.
There were some VERY interesting evenings spent sitting around the fire listening to these guys. ( he he, I had a captive audience for four months, if there was a moments silence, I would hassle them with questions about what they did, where they went, who the fought etc. thinking back now, I just wish I had of had a tape recorder running. )
This was way before I got into online gaming, or even flight sims for that matter ( in fact, I do believe I was still 'scared' of computers back then ) :) and unfortunately I didnt know enough to ask about 'how' they flew, what the aircraft handled like in RL, tactics they used against a better turning enemy, etc...I only wish I could sit around a fire for a few nights with them again now.
Blue
PS, yes, you read it right....youngest by FIFTY years, these guys were all 65+.....in the 4 months we were out there, we had several (4 or 5) young blokes come along, and leave after a short time due to the fairly harsh living and working conditions.....the old guys never once uttered a word of complaint...in the words of one of the Corsair drivers when I questioned the wisdom of 65 year old men in the bush doing a young man's job, "This? hard? this hasnt got toejam on some of the places I've been, and some of the jobs I've had....you ever heard of Guadalcanal?"....at the time, I hadn't.
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WTG FAMINZ!!!
to your squad and Mr. Peart.
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Excellent post!
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Nice.
So what are his impressions of AH?
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my impression of his impression of AH was that it was very very good. He loved it. In fact I may have to set up a PC for him to try it soon (we'll see). he felt the joystick was far too easy to move, apparently the control column requires some strength to pull over, and the reaction of the plane was way overdamped. He complemented the graphics tho and at one point as I was looking out the right hand side towards an island he commented that it was just like he remembered in the islands.
He did say the the lack of being able to set the altimeter at a field before take off was a bad thing as he was watching the alt as he looped it and unfortunately augured into the ground as we had taken off from a hi alt field.
Maybe that could be built into AH one day?
It was the best sim of his experiences he had ever seen.
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Originally posted by faminz
he felt the joystick was far too easy to move, apparently the control column requires some strength to pull over
Right then, let's club together and buy this guy a Cougar with extra tight springs.
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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Thanks for sharing that !
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if this guy does not have a pc to play on, and would like one, i would be more than willing to donate 10 bucks to buy him one, and I bet alot of other ppl around here would too.
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Faminz! You are one lucky SOB!! Thanks for sharing this encounter with us. Someday if he is on-line let the AH community know. I would switch sides to fly with him.
Thanks!
Swagger
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WTG Faminz and
52nd Kiwis. Do you think you can sign him up as a squad member??
strk
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Apparently Dsrtrat's uncle, who also flew spits, said he preferred the VIII also.
Thanks for the great post.
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Nice post Faminz
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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and the reaction of the plane was way overdamped.
That is very interesting. All of the comments I have seen players make state that they think the control is too sharp in AH. Players frequently say that it should be somewhere between WBIII mushiness and AH crispness. If I read that line correctly, he is saying that it was more immediately responsive than it is in AH.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That is very interesting. All of the comments I have seen players make state that they think the control is too sharp in AH. Players frequently say that it should be somewhere between WBIII mushiness and AH crispness. If I read that line correctly, he is saying that it was more immediately responsive than it is in AH.
I think that depends on the plane.
Ive read many pilots describing the spitfire as a very responsive plane. "You could fly it with your pinkie finger" described one.
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So why is it the Spit I in AH quite the opposite. The spit I's elevator is very sluggish and heavy- heavier than the bf109's. I have trouble blacking out my pilot in the spit I in turns because it's so heavy. It's anything but light and responsive in AH.
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From what I've read, the sluggishness of the Mk I. was due to the fabric covered control surfaces, which had a nasty tendency to inflate due to high speed air getting between the fabric and the airframe.
As for the Mk. VIII, I read that it was quite a different airframe, with several aerodynamic refinements, making it the easiest, sharpest, and most enjoyable Spit to fly. Truly the "sports car" of the Spits.
Daniel, aka Cyrano
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Truly the "sports car" of the Spits.
Daniel, aka Cyrano
Si, el Copa Turbo de los cielos.
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he fought 12 109's alone in a spitfire?
sure.....:rolleyes:
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Needs a computer? I'd wager we could send a "chain letter" box around for people to throw one or two spare parts in and have it end up at Bloom. :D
He'd be up and running in two weeks!
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If you knew a bit of history you'd know that fights with what we think are outrageous odds were quite common in WW2, and that it wasn't uncommon for those with lesser numbers to a) get away b) nail the other guys. Was it Marseilles who nailed a whole pile of P-40s or Hurri's with his wingie flying top cover in Africa? Or in the early years in France, bombers often escaped, albeit with massive hits, from whole squadrons of Hurricanes who failed to physically take them out of the air.
Originally posted by RoyofCA
he fought 12 109's alone in a spitfire?
sure.....:rolleyes:
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Or in the early years in France, bombers often escaped, albeit with massive hits, from whole squadrons of Hurricanes who failed to physically take them out of the air.
Remember that it was the lucky pilot who made a serious mistake in air combat and both survived to learn from it and returned to his unit to fly again. Look at all the people who've gotten good at attacking bombers in AH, WB, and AW. How many of them got it right the first time? How many of them have never gotten blown up in their plane without being able to bail? Each one who haven't would never have been able to reach their skill level from being able to just grab another plane and try again, rather than dying the first time they blew it badly.
Think of what Marseilles' score might have been if he could have just picked another plane and taken off again moments after being shot down. The difference between being able to learn from your fatal mistakes and not making fatal mistakes in the first place is the big difference between people who are good in an air-combat sim and the people who were good at air combat in RL.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That is very interesting. All of the comments I have seen players make state that they think the control is too sharp in AH. Players frequently say that it should be somewhere between WBIII mushiness and AH crispness. If I read that line correctly, he is saying that it was more immediately responsive than it is in AH.
correct Karnak. He said the joystick (a CH combat stick) was way too light and the response too slow. Apparently they had to heave the stick over in combat and the result was instant flick. Of course thats in a Spitfire. Note that I had combat trim on also.
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Originally posted by RoyofCA
he fought 12 109's alone in a spitfire?
sure.....:rolleyes:
Absolutely correct Roy, 12 109's, I got an exact blow by blow account of the fight. There was no roadkill. The english pilot sensibly went for home leaving him alone. I described the method used by him and it was from the 'horses mouth'. You had to be there!
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Lovely post; Faminz.
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Originally posted by Shiva
Remember that it was the lucky pilot who made a serious mistake in air combat and both survived to learn from it and returned to his unit to fly again. Look at all the people who've gotten good at attacking bombers in AH, WB, and AW. How many of them got it right the first time? How many of them have never gotten blown up in their plane without being able to bail? Each one who haven't would never have been able to reach their skill level from being able to just grab another plane and try again, rather than dying the first time they blew it badly.
Think of what Marseilles' score might have been if he could have just picked another plane and taken off again moments after being shot down. The difference between being able to learn from your fatal mistakes and not making fatal mistakes in the first place is the big difference between people who are good in an air-combat sim and the people who were good at air combat in RL.
Amen.
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During the demonstartion of AH yesterday he led the squad in a fighter sweep, and despite nearly all of us biting the dust, again enjoyed it greatly and I wish you all couldve been here
to listen to his comments. There was lots of humour at our end.
Hey Faminz, yesterday I was watching the dar after taking a base (I'm Rook) and we saw this large enemy formation forming up SW of our base. Most of the rooks around our base were concentrating on killing the enemy carrier to the North. I took off in a Spitfire Mk. 14 and headed toward it for some recon. Low and behold it was a ton of Spitfires up at about 15k feet. Some Spits gave chase but I stayed away not liking the numbers and continued to shadow the formation vectoring more Rooks in before I jumped into the frey. I only got one kill but it was fun. Was that you guys?
Kuben
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Im sure that was us Kuben...
Hey the tactics worked... we scared one enemy away for a while at least..LOL