Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on August 19, 2002, 02:00:38 PM
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Alright, I finally sat through this piece of crap.
I know there are real hard core aviation/warbird era fans here, so how many "Cinematic Liberties" did the director take?
For one, there was no pilot in WW2 who fought in the Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor AND the Doolittle Raid.
Second, why the hell would Doolittle select 2 pilots with no multi-engine experience to fly a B-25 off the deck of a CV?
Third, Neither crash Ben AFLAC was in, looked survivable.
Fourth, HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET 3 A6M's DEAD SIX, less than 200 Yards, AND NOT GET YOUR P-40 BLOWN OUT OF THE SKY?
I'm sitting through this thing with my wife, yelling at the TV, "THEY"VE GOT HIM SADDLED UP!! THE LINED UP ON HIM AS HE WAS TAKING OFF!!!! THEY DID'NT VULCH HIM? GIMME A BREAK? HOW THE HELL COULD YOU MISS? OH NO, THEY"RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT 'MAKE THE ENEMY PLANES CRASH INTO EACH OTHER' THING ARE THEY? OH GOD, THEY DID. HE DID'NT JUST SHOOT DOWN A ZERO WITH A 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, DID HE? YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!
It was at this point that my wife sighed, and left the room.
So I must share my frustration with my AH Brethern.
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I'm sitting through this thing with my wife, yelling at the TV, "THEY"VE GOT HIM SADDLED UP!! THE LINED UP ON HIM AS HE WAS TAKING OFF!!!! THEY DID'NT VULCH HIM? GIMME A BREAK? HOW THE HELL COULD YOU MISS? OH NO, THEY"RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT 'MAKE THE ENEMY PLANES CRASH INTO EACH OTHER' THING ARE THEY? OH GOD, THEY DID. HE DID'NT JUST SHOOT DOWN A ZERO WITH A 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, DID HE? YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!
It was at this point that my wife sighed, and left the room.
My experience EXACTLY (only she told me to shut up and watch the movie).
Charon
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What about where they're "hiding" on the airfield. It makes sense that Japan would specifically want to kill Rafe and Danny (not just attack an airfield by itself) since they were single-handedly able to win the war for the United States.
It reminded me of an overly-long Ralph lauren Chaps commercial.
Charon
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The biggest error was the extremely liberal Alex Baldwin (who, I might add, SHOULD be moved out of the country by now if he lived up to his word) portraying a very conservative, very patriotic James Doolittle...I'll bet Doolittles' corpse was doing flip-flops in his casket when that film debuted.
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Movie "Pearl Harbor". How many Errors can you find?
One.
Hollywood managed to turn one of the most significant events in U.S.. history into a soap opera.
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How many people besides us cared?
anyone see Remember the Titans? Same thing, tons of historical errors due to "artistic licensing." Did anyone really care? nope.
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Originally posted by Nifty
How many people besides us cared?
No one. I tried talking to my friends about it, no go.
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How did a severe dyslestic make it through flight school? (when he was taking the eye test this was discovered)
A champagne cork blowing from a bottle into a broken nose would cause a normal human being to either pass out OR swear profusley..he just went "Ow" and curled up on the chick's lap. If I didn't pass out the first word out of my mouth would start with an "f"....or maybe an "m" followed by an "f". But the real error was that nobody could possibly be that stupid to allow it to hit him in the first place.
The crash landing into the channel....ya! sure! Wasn't the cannopy stuck shut? Are we supposed to believe that the force of the crash broke it open for him, without splattering his head all over the dash?
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I thought it was great!
I especially enjoyed the scene where they brought those pesky zekes past the tower so we could kill em with a carbine.
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IT WAS A FREAKING LOVE STORY!!!!!!!!!!!
Why name it Pearl Harbor? Sure sure they had some cool scenes but IT WAS A FREAKING LOVE STORY!!!
I waited for over a year for this crap to come out and I was soooo pissed when I left the movie.
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If you REALLY care.. go here - http://www.movie-mistakes.com/film.php?filmid=964
example: In the scene where Ben Affleck is fighting for Britain his plane gets hit. As it goes down into the water, it is day. Later when they show him swimming out of the plane and to the surface, it is night.
In the first view of Pearl Harbor, just before the nurses are shown in the small transport boat as they arrive at Pearl, you clearly see the Arizona Memorial in the background as the camera pans down from sky to harbour.
When the final planes take off from the aircraft carrier to bomb Tokyo, the captain gives the order for extra speed. But when the second and third planes take off you can see that the carrier is safely moored with 3 anchor chains at the front of the ship, and not going anywhere.
As the Japanese attack begins, fighter aircraft strafe pedestrians (and everything else) near the harbour. The reporter with the hand-held movie camera is killed twice. Watch as he is blown into the air and then miraculously restored to health, only to be blown away yet again, this time with the camera in front of his face to show the irony, and tragedy, that so characterises the mass media in our Century
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That was the hottest group of nurses I've ever seen, and I've seen more than a few Nurses :)
Charon
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Here's a hint.. it was a movie. I'd leave the room to.
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Biggest PH mistake:
Letting Randalph Wallace near it.
Daff
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So let me ask this, I know the movie Pearl Harbor was a love story, but what did you guys think about Tora Tora Tora?
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There were too many mistakes in this film - we laughed very often in the cinema - especially in the scenes where the japanese fighter was chasing the US fighter -shooting all the time from short distance but didnt make a single hit.
It was like A-Team ;)
The love story was also extremely boring.
The greatest laughter in the cinema came, when the heros of the B25 wing came out of the hangar like in Armageddon or so.
The sad thing is that Hollywood made a ridiculous and stupid love-story film about a tragic event.
The old Tora Tora Tora film was much better than this new PH film.
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Re - Tora Tora Tora
The crash landing of the B17 was real. During the filming, one of the bombers could not lower its right landing gear, so the producers rushed a crew to the airport, to film the bomber's crash landing.
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Juuuuuzus.. the errors?? too many to mention. Anybody notice those P40's were Warhawks insteda Tomahawks? How about all those BT-13 Vals? Those sure looked like Spruance Class DD's inteada Cruisers rafted out in the harbor.. ;)
The reality? Actually, there's more in there than you might think
the deal... my kid; after seeing the movie asked questions. I gave her the scoop..
Yes, Pearl Harbor happened.. pretty much like they showed it. We had an idea that it might happen, but word of a possible attack didn't 'offically' arrive till the attack was already under way.. Yes, the Japanese straffed sailors in the water, bombed the hospital, and essentialy destroyed the fleet at it's anchorage. Yes we got a few planes in the air, yes we shot a few down, but defensive air cover was essentially ineffective, and no; no american planes chased the japanese outta the anchorage.. no american pilot was permitted anywhere near the decimated fleet.. the Navy was shooting at ANYTHING flying by then... and the dogfight around the hangers was pure hollywood. Rousing and exciting, but purely entertainment.
Yes, a young black cook manned a shot out gun position, yes he downed an attacking plane and he was given a medal for it. Yes, the carnage and confusion was much as it was shown, and men fought and died not knowing why they were being attacked.
Yes, our sailors were still dying in those ships for days after the attack, yes, many hundreds perished trapped inside while rescuers tried feverishly to get to them..
Yes, Roosevelt got pissed and chewed out his cabniet, demanding an attack plan, yes, that bit of hollywood is true, he hauled his crippled carcass outta his wheel chair to make the point.
Yes, a sewer-pipe sailor came up with the counter-attack idea. Yes, he did pitch it to the president.
Yes, we did the incredible stunt of loading 16 B25's onto the USS Hornet.. Yes, they launched early, yes; they bombed tokyo; no, not in anything even remotely resembling a 'formation'.. all planes departed the carrier and went straight to their assigined targets, most of which were NOT Tokyo.
Yes, the crews were forced to crashland in the dark in china, most in japanese controlled territory. No.. there was no contact between the crews untill several days after they crashed... and 3 crews were captured, some executed on the spot. Of the 21 men captured, I believe only two survived till the end of the war. Not mentioned in the movie.. the japanese were so enraged by the support given to the downed pilots by the chinese that nearly a half MILLION chinese civilians were exterminated for it. Our increased 'american' morale had a very high price tag.
Yes, Doolittle did recieve the CMH for his role in the Raid.. and yes, he did say "I accept this on behalf of the men that earned it"
Yes, the movie was good in that it gave a new generation a glimpse of our past.. yes indeed; our young men and women volunteered by the hundreds of thousands to 'avenge pearl harbor', yes indeed your grandfathers were among them, and yes indeed they helped win that war. Your Granddads were both hero's, they deserve your respect and have earned the thanks of a grateful world.
*sigh*
If all it did was get my kid to ask questions about Gramps and about 'what was that war all about, daddy' then it was worth the price of admission.
So, if you yanked out the love story, and look at the basic facts.. the Eagle Squadron/BoB, the surprise attack itself, the planning sequence for the counter attack, the training for it, the medals wired to the bombs, the 'go now' decision to launch early, etc.. yes there was plenty of factual historical meat in that movie.
Just take it as it was intended.. it was a hollywood blockbuster to both make money and inspire patriotism.
They did both just fine.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Yes, Roosevelt got pissed and chewed out his cabniet, demanding an attack plan, yes, that bit of hollywood is true, he hauled his crippled carcass outta his wheel chair to make the point.
He always spoke in public on his feet, IIRC.
Patriotic blockbuster... LOL. It was crap... Independence Day, Armageddon type crap. Only thing missing was Aerosmith and Will Smith.
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It was crap... Independence Day, Armageddon type crap.
Hey.. I don't disagree about the 'hollywood' toejam in the movie. All I'm sayin is that the canvas they painted on (and over) was a masterpiece of human drama, a political 'soap oprea' set on a world stage. Unlike the other movies you mention, the backdrop this fiction is painted on is history; not science fiction fantasy.
To folks like us, it's repugnant to mess with a real drama that of itself was requiring no embelishment.. to see it schlocked up hollywood style cheapens the memory of the real hero's of those storys. The only good thing that can be said of it is that if nothing else, it focused the attention of an otherwize unknowing and uncaring generation on a chapter of history worth remembering.
Only thing missing was Aerosmith and Will Smith.
I wanna do Liv Tyler. Inna elevator. While daddy sings.
hehehehhehhe
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When they're showing the Japanese attack and the planes are all being funnelled through the valley, there's no way that many planes could form up that tightly, what with all the prop wash and updrafts and downdrafts from the mountain walls.
The destroyers moored in the harbor have the wrong bows - those are the modern Ticonderoga class missile destroyers.
As far as I know, no Eagle squadron pilot flew at Pearl Harbor.
No fighter pilot would be allowed to fly a B-25 without multi-engine experience.
The airfield strafing scene during the Pearl Harbor attack - how many Zeroes missed a low-e P-40? Yeah.
Still, sometimes you just have to let art flow over you, so by ignoring those inaccuracies, I was able to enjoy the film for what it was - a hokey love story that featured some pretty well-restored WW2 aircraft.
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Couldn't miss those Japanese angle decked super carriers with catapult rails... :rolleyes:
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I believe "only" about 50,000 chinese were executed as a consequence of Doolittle's raid, not 500,000.
miko
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Just read the story of George Welch (4 confirmed kills at Pearl in a p-40b) He was strafed on takeoff on his second sortie,(he flew 3) and the zeke missed. His wingman Taylor was wounded on takeoff by a strafing zeke (that Welch killed soon after).
I guess "saddling up" is relative.
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the biggest one that got my panties in a bunch was during the a/c fite scene (after the head-on collision) the guy that played danny was flying with BOTH hands on the stick and was thowing that thing around like 2 feet side-to-side. Oh well... :D
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I saw through that awful movie just to see the attack scenes. But when Ben Afleck told that other dude that "you can't out run a zeke you have to out manuver them" I got up and left the movie. I missed the whole Doolittle raid, thankfully because I can't stand that hypocrite baldwin.
The movie "touched" on some of the historical accuracies but it was a failure in my book....
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Wow, surprised no one has commented on the aircraft...
I did enjoy the air scenes - BoB ones especially - but the rest of the movie was crap... most of it anyway.
Anyone else notice the SpitV's and Spit IX's parked on the airfield? Or the 109F's and G's that fought against these 1941 Spit IX's? Hell - there was even a Spit XIV - that 5 bladed prop must have been a technical marvel during the BoB. :D
Its too bad that Japs cant vulch or that .303's will literally cause an He-111 to EXPLODE... but whats a movie about Peral without a few zekes being shot down with a 12 guage? :rolleyes:
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"especially in the scenes where the japanese fighter was chasing the US fighter -shooting all the time from short distance but didnt make a single hit."
The zero should post a ping-plot here. Prolly lag of some sort!
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How many errors?......Only 2...it was made and then distributed.
Cobra
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2
Where the nurse gets taken up in an airplane, then drops her knickers... and where somone would actually take the movie seriously
Tronsky