Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: hyena426 on August 22, 2002, 02:56:03 PM
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there is a very importaint bomber being left out,,that should be brung out,,,,the b24 liberator,,, bigger payload than a b17,,,more powerull motors,,climed much better,,,,and it was usa's first air force one for the president ,,,,,,very popular bomber,,and it was used just as much,,or more than b17,,,,but for some reason,,its allways forgotten in ww2 sims,,,thought i would try and remind some people of one of the usa's great bombers that should be in here
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OK, OK, Who Knows what I am thinking?????:)
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Originally posted by brady
OK, OK, Who Knows what I am thinking?????:)
I agree? :D :p , yeah we could use the B-24, a great book about some liberator pilots is "The Wild Blue" by Stephen Ambrose
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OK, OK, Who Knows what I am thinking?????
Maybe that this is the 231st post on requesting the B24.
or maybe
Gee, I remember when I was new.
Hyena, also cant be 100% sure, need to do some checking but I believe the first official Air Force One was a C54 or C118 for Harry Truman, around 1947.
I think Roosevelt did use a B24 / C-109, or early C54
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ya,,well,,i know it was a good bomber,,and one of the only bombers made that the wing span was longer that the plane its self,,lol,,,,so it could carry huge payload and still clime ok ,,and it had bigger motors,,,,good plane,,and i never seen it used in a combat sim yet,,,,maybe aces high could be one of the first,,,it was a very produced plane in ww2,,,no reason it shouldnt be here allready
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on history channel,,it said the c47,,was going to be the first,,but,,somthing about harry never used his plane,,,and by the time Roosevelt got in,,he couldnt get up in a c47,,so they used a liberator because it had a low back door he could clime in easly,,,,thats atleast what the history channel said,,,my dad flown on the only b24 liberator left,,i could have,,but it was like 300bucks for a ride,,didnt have that kind a money to blow on a hour ride then,,,but my dad sure had a blast and recorded it all,,lol
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WB has a B-24. The lib is also faster than the 17.
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Gee, I remember when I was new
who ya calling new?,,ehahe
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,,,,and it [B-24] was usa's first air force one for the president ,,,,,,
ok, so how many FDRs do we have to drop on a hangar to take it out... |_ () |_ ... but seriously, even more interesting than the B-24, might be the PB4Y-2 Privateer patrol bomber, which had heavier defensive armament (althought little belly protection) & carried tordonuts (i think). although a lesser know A/C, (i suspect this is why many privateer are still in active use as fire bombers. i'd bet no B-24s are being used as such) and much less used A/C, it is not quite so similar to the B-17 and so, maybe, there would be more arguments for it's inclusion. i suspect the real sentiment is for an axis heavy to be put in before another allied one...JU-290 or Emily!
(http://members.aol.com/svanaken/pb4y.jpg)
(http://www.navylib.com/ContributedPics/S.Hawley/Y2SHUK11Pic2.jpg)
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yes to B24
BTW "air force one ' is a call sign not a air plane and was first used during JFK's term
air force and private planes use tail numbers for call signs , commerical planes use flight numbers for callsigns and there was confusion between the two so any plane the prez is on is air force one only when he is on it, vice-prez 's plane is air force two, the marine hellicopter that flys the prez is marine corp one
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Liberator would be great.100% behind you on that one..
but also as important was the halifax, He111, B29 ,Do17..
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B17 has a faster maximum speed than the B24, but the B24 has a higher 'cruising' speed.
The B24 had a long, thin Davis wing. This helped helped the '24 to cruise at a high speed, but it was a step down in everything else compared to the B17. B17s have actually done rolls and loops before.
B17s dropped more tonnage of bombs than any other aircraft in World War II.
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B-24 would be a great addition & I'd love to see it, but we already have a ton of US bombers, so my guess is we'll get an Italian, German, Russian or japanese bomber...
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B24's would be easy meat, but we do need it.
From reading Ambrose's Wild Blue, He said the B24 was a fragile plane and could not absorb damage like the fortress.
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only reason b17 would out drop most bombers,,was because of numbers,,,,,usa produced the hell out of them,,,not because of how much they could carry,,because liberator and lancaster and b29 beat it bad in payload size,,,,,wild blue said it was weak,,but lancaster pilots on the history channel said it was tuff,,,,,people that really flew them,,talk them up pretty good,,but everyone does that,,,says there bomber is better than the othere guys,,,,but the b24 needs to be here,,and it would kick butt over a b26 anyday of the week,,lol
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and i dout many planes could take as much damage as the b17,,,,they would come back with most of there tail gone,,and make it home just fine,,lol
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after some other bombers from other countries
PLEASE!
personaly i want a halifax and lancaster mk 1, thats the one that carried the tall boy and grand slam, and the bouncing dam buster bomb
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to be fair,,,,we need,,b24,,,hinkle he111,,,,and the stuka,,,,out of all bombers,,the boston and the a20,should fo came long after these bombers were in place,,,,because the 3 i mention were very vital bombers of there time ,,, i know we all want the b29,,but it would be overwhelming at the moment im sure
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Heavy Bomber Production Totals:
B-24 Liberator: 19,203
B-17 Flying Fortress: 12,731
Lancaster: 7,374
Halifax: 6,176
B-29 Superfortress: 3,960 (including post-war production)
Stirling: 2,370
He 177 Greif: 1,126
Tupolev TB-3: ~800
That said, why do we need the B-24 right now? It is so similar to the B-17G in capability that it would bring nearly nothing to the game and would take nearly as much effort on HTC's part as adding the B-29, which would at least be a usable perk bomber.
Even higher on our request list shoud be a Russian bomber such as the Pe-2 or Tu-2S.
Another large aircraft that would be useful would be the H8K2 "Emily", which is fast, climbs better then the B-24 by far, well armed, can carry 6,600lbs of bombs and is Axis.
hyena426,
The Boston was added because it is useful as an early war Allied bomber, has multiple versions that offer significantly different capabilities and because it was used everywhere.
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go look at how much the liberator could carry:)
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hyena426,
I am well aware of how much the B-24 could carry. In AH it would likely be able to carry 8,000lbs. That is not significantly different than the B-17's 6,000lbs.
What the B-24's absolute maximum load was is irrelevant. The B-17's was 16,000lbs, yet in AH it carrys a typical B-17 load: 6,000lbs.
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dammit we have enough american bombers already. a B-24 is near the end of the priority list, we need more VVS planes, italian planes, jap planes and a good (note, GOOD) german bomber before we get another american bomber
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Yes I'm Up for the B-24 being introduced as I need new targets. But we need Buffs from the other countries as well . Russians are lacking a Bomber and Germans are lacking a good late war buff like Soviet said.
I want to see the flying tricycle landing gear torch aorund here in the future, aim for those nice wing tanks near the fuselage for nice Extra tasty crispy crews mmm mmm mmm. :D
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the b24 was no joke,,,reason it carried more was because of its powerfull motors,,,could reach max speed of 301,,it had Four Pratt & Whitney R-1830-33 (S3C4-G) Twin Wasp 14 cylinder air-cooled reciprocating radials ,,,best motors around at there day,,,,,10 ,,50cals,,,,alt,,31,000,,and being even morely produced,,,they should be in there,,,,and lots of pepople agree,,stuka,,,he111,,,popular as hell,,and should be in any ww2 sim
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Perhaps I was to cryptic, I think we nead a B 24 like we all nead a freaking hole in the head, it is beyond redundant, although I can appricate people wanting it because it is their favorate toy, any other arguments for adding it are simply vailed atempts at hiding thier thier true reasion for adding it.
The A20/Boston was a great addation to AH as Karnak has said and for the reasion's he said.
Bombers from other countries are neaded at present to balence out the plane set for the CT and for events.
Since we will undoubtly get more us planes, seams we can't not get them:) I suspect you will see the redundant Liberator in the future.
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B-17 Goooooooodddd
B-24 Baaaadddd
As nobody likes to buff anymore adding the 24 would be pointless. Although I do agree on getting some Axis bombers in AH. I personally would like to see an Italian bomber.The one with three engines would be neat. I suck cuz i cant remember the name:( anybody know what A/C im talking about?
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why,,what is wrong with the liberator?,,, if it was so produced,,why not have it in here?,,,the a20, ,,was a good plane,,but liberator was use tons in ww2,,and for some reason allways been skipped in ww2 flight sims,,,,just like most bombers it helped win the war,,and had a killer payload,,because there aint no reason at all,,it should be excluded from aces high or anyothere ww2 sim ,,,why would you be so aginst it being added?,,,,dont like more real planes to fly?,,hehaheha,,and of all bombers this one should be here just as much,,as b17,,,or b26,,or lancaster,,,more of liberators made anyways,,and it treated there crews well,,and saying
I think we nead a B 24 like we all nead a freaking hole in the head, it is beyond redundant, although I can appricate people wanting it because it is their favorate toy,
well,sorry,,but its jsut as popular bomber made as any othere in here,,,and saying hole in the head,,why?,,i dont get your point,,lol,,because im not even a bomber pilot,,but im tired of seening such a good plane be negleted from ww2 sims,,when it was avery importaint part of the war
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Originally posted by brady
nead a freaking hole in the head
hmm, was it JFK who said that before he went to Dallas, or was it some1 else
who was it who said
"I need this trip as about as much as i need a hole in the head"?
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hyena426, I salute your attempt to promote this Plane, if came across as being rude I appoligise. Hear are my points in a little more depth.
Production numbers are a piss pore excause for adding a plane for a number of reasion's, the least of which is that they favore the US a little to much. Production numbers do not tell the whole story so what if a ton of them were made the US was fighting Japan and Germany and suplying planes to a ton of countries because we had the industrail base to it, we wone the war because of the fact that were were lucky( the enemy screwed up) and we made more than they did. But realy if numbers is all that mater Russia realy wone the war 22 pluss million dead is the price they paid ( and I beleave the IL-2 was produced in larger numbers than any other allied bomber)
The B 24 is a great plane no doubt, I prefer it to the B 17, but we have the B 17 and the B 26 and the A20 and the TBM, and the Boston, that's FIVE US bombers(4 realy). Ya see it takes HTC a long time to build bombers at least 4 tiems as long as a fighter ( or so I have been lead to beleave) So if you want a B 24 what are you going to give up, well at lest 4 fighter's New ones not mod's. And what are you going to give them up for? The allies have a ton of bomber's and some great one's the Lancaster and the mossie ect. If you model the B 24 you bring nothing new to the game in terms of capabalities or representation, the allies are well represented in the bomber area. Italy Germany and Russia are not, it would be nice if at least one of those countries got a bomber( the JU 88 is a 1940 bomber and not in a league with the late war monster the allies have).
The Cant Z 1007 for Italy.
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lol well the liberator was always said to be no where near trustable as the 17 29 26 25 it would not float in the ocean period.. when one eng was lost it took full rudder to compinsate for it..... the quarters were way more crampt....ok lets put it in comparison with each of these planes.....
24 vs. 17-- 24 slower, less armerment, less armor, lower turn radius,bigger target, really not landing freindly compared to 17 on the other hand it could carry more bombs and had better fuel miliage thats about it.....
24 vs. 26--- 24 slower bigger and didn't have the survivability rate of the 26 only .3% of 26's were lost per sorty and well 26 will always be my plane...
24 vs 29 -- well i really don't have to say jack didle here
24 vs 25 -- well 24 is just the 25 with a bigger wing span and 2 more engs not alot of diffrence looking there performence and story's over
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brady,
You forgot the SBD-5.
I'd count the Boston as British.
Bombers:
USA:
A-20G
B-17G
B-26B
SBD-5
TBM-3
UK:
Boston Mk III
Lancaster Mk III
Japan:
D3A1
Ki-67
Germany:
Ju88A-4
USSR:
Il-2 Type 3
Italy:
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I don't count the C-47 as it isn't really a bomber and I don't count the Ar234B because it is perked as well as being broken and useless with the new bombing system.
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well,,one thing nod you got wrong,,,b24 liberator is faster than a b17,,,bigger motors,,had 14clinders compared to the b17s 12,,,,,i beleve,,i know it had better motors thats for sure,,,not as much firepower,,but alot,,,10,,50cals,,,and lots of people who flew them,,said it was a damn good plane,,,and i aint a bomber buff,,but,,allies had more bombers than anyone,,so of cource your going to run in too the proublem of them having too many planes that are usa built,,or british,,because we had most of the bombers anyways,,besides russians il2,,,,,i heard they got trashed in them things in the air anyways,,lol,,,,but its funny,,how i just metioned this plane,,and everyone got in a uproar,,,its popular plane,,i never seen it in a ww2 sim,,and it should be in one,,because it was mass produced,,and used alot,,and there not that crammed nod,,i been inside one once while it was on the ground,,,from the collins foundation,,had just about the same room as a b17,,,but,,,didnt have a ball turret in the way,,lol,,,,,but one fact,,it was faster than 17,,, ,,,only like 1 mile hour faster,,but it was,,lol,,big bomb load too,,,,,,,, ,,,and it wouldnt hurt a thing to have it in a ww2 sim,,like it should be,,,,,,,my self,,i been wanting the stuka,,and he111,,,,he111 should of been here just as much as ju88,,but fact is,,,b17,,,b24 liberators,,,b29,, were americas big boy bombers,,and used a lot,, 3 main line bombers,,,and if they want a full complement of planes,,,should be in there,,plain and simple
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i understand your point of usa having too many bombers,,but the fact is,,they had alot of great bombers,,we were good at building them
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Karnak ty you are right, good point on the Ar 234, sad realy about that plane.
hyena426, you touched a nearve people have been on the rampage since AH begain about what planes to add and why one is more deserving than the other and I suspect they always will be. Personaly I view it as a matter of fairnes and it is my second biggest pet peave about AH, that is lopsided plane modeling favoring the USA.
But it is a very fun game, and I do enjoy it.
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well,,bad thing about fairness,,is war wasnt fair,,,,thats why americans had so many bombers and planes,,, but,,fact is,,americans biggest best bombers,,were b17,,b24,,and {b29,that i dout we will see soon,,it was too good for its time},,and it would be un touchible in this game,,,,,,but i dont understand getting riled up about it,,,its a popular plane in ww2,,,just not popular plane for the masses now days,,because it didnt look as good as a b17,,,lol,,sure we mite not need it,,but does that mean we should neglect having it just because it aint popular with some people?,,who never even flown one ..,.or gunned in one,,,heck from what i read,,,b24 pilots loved there b24s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and there again,,i would rather see othere planes in too,,but in realty of all american bombers it should be there
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hyena, stop being pushy!
The way this is going, you WILL eventurly get the b24, most likly before a German or Italian bomber
And is it just me, or do most WW2 flight sims seem to depict WW2 as USAF vs LW?
Here's some figures, did it a while ago so i'm not sure if its accurate or not:
LW:17
USA: 25
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...just now reading "i flew for the furhur" by 52 kill kraut ace heinz knoke. he was in action a lot against the big US daylight strategic bombing camaign of '43 - '45 in a 109g. he flew out of NW fatherland & holland. most of his kills against Liberators were made on the 1st pass. against B-17s, unless he put 30mm or 20mm stuff into the cockpit he almost always had to make at least a 2nd pass...also interesting from this book: the early 109g models had a habit of spontaneously combusting in flight.
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i'm talking down at deck level............ full speed ahead........... goin as fast as that thing can...............the 17 is faster that way plus the 17 carried more ammo....... :)
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|Cty| F | B | V | Bt|Tot| % |
|US |15| 7 | 6 | 1 | 29 | 41%|
|LW|13| 2 | 2 | 0 | 17 | 24%|
|RAF|11| 1 | 0| 0 | 12 | 16%|
|Jap | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 8% |
|Rus | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 7% |
|Ital | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3% |
Out of 71 planes, nearly half of them are american, don't ya think its time we got some planes on the lower half of the table?
btw, yes i know it only adds up to 99% It's like that because I rounded it off
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"Out of 71 planes, nearly half of them are american, don't ya think its time we got some planes on the lower half of the table?
No.
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not being pushy at all,,im going at this the right way,,,and i havent raized my voice once,,,lol,,,,and plus,,i just asked,,were is the liberator,,out of american bombers,,it should be here with the b17 right?,,,,just like germans should have,,he111,,and stuka,,,2 othere importaint left out planes,,, ,,that are neglected,,tons and tons of il2s were shot down,,,,,and we all know,,the weakest bomber in here,,are the ju88,,and lancaster,,,,and usa lost tons of duantless dive bomber,,but there still in here,,,i would bet the firepower of a liberator is much better then both them planes put together,,,,,,add more greman and russian planes, but that doesnt change missing a good plane,,,,there are tons of fighters in this game,,,and most of the main line fighters are here allready,,,why not this one main line bomber?,,,,like i said,,and everyone knows,,im not a bomber pilot,,but,,,i do fly them once and a while,,and i bet it would be a better plane than most think,,,its funny how this thread took off,,when most planes that are on here dont get put on anyways,,lol,,, this aint my fav plane at all,,but,,,,,,,why get upset,,at some one saying we are missing a bomber that was importaint and used alot?,,,,like the oscar,,,its missing too,,and its a fighter,,,,,why cant we have every main line plane in this game sooner or later?,,,,germans need a few more,,and so does othere countries,,,but if they put in liberator,,they would be done,,and wouldnt have to come back and stick one in at a late time,,,,,, can anyone say,,it dont belong in this game?,,,it should,,because it was in ww2,,it was used just as much as any othere plane,,maybe more
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You know for a whileI was quiet ticked about the whole plane modeling choice thing then I had a moment of divine understanding, and a wave of calm came apone me: They wille of modeled every US plane prety soon and will have nothing left to model but planes from other countries:) This is not a war game it is a flight sim after all, and the player base is largly ethnocentric( it must be other wise they would have half the planes as US)
The only real problem in having half the Planes US is in the CT( makes it hard to do set up's this way), In the sea and in the new mishion theater, or wait they are doing a 44 8th air force theather how fun:)( they have to they dont have enough planes from any other theater do anything else.)
DOn't get me wrong I do want some more US plane's instead of a B 24 why not a:
Hawk 75: In French collor's
Early P 38: good for Pac set up's
Buffalow: many uses
Coranado: Great game adation( rather have an Emily but we are ethnocentric)
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US planes saw wider use in WWII than the planes of any other nation.
US planes were used by a greater number of air forces than the planes of any other nation.
although i'm not sure about it, i would highly suspect the US produced more planes than any other nation.
i think this may explain the high fraction of US planes in any WWII flight sim...
..
...on another note, the Russian movie "Come & See" has some actual footage of the FW 189 in flight - somewhat of a rarity, i would expect
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usa,,had lots more planes,,because it had to fight 2 wars,,,,europe,,and pacific,,,,,and it was the biggest producer of all countries,,,in boats,,,tanks and planes,,even know the tanks were weak,,and called ronson tanks,,because the would light up like a ronson lighter when hit by a shell,,lol,,,but usa over whelmed them with numbers,,so they will have a lot of planes,,because of so many wars,,,i wont argu about a plane anymore that was a main line plane,,and should be in here,,im sure everyone wants somthing diffrent,,,,this plane aint even my fav,,me163 will be cool,,but they only made 300 of them,,,and 19,000 liberators,,and the lib doesnt deserve to be in here?,,,well,i think it should,,even know im not a bomber buff,,,me163 would be cool to fly,,,40,000 feet right off the run way,,strait up i beleve,,maybe less,,still be a fast ride
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Hyena is your period key broken? Or are you using the , key for some reason? I just finished reading The Wild Blue and now I want a B-24 more than ever :).
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Anyone notice the Dr. jeckle/Mr. Hyde quality to some of these posts? Someone helping himself make a point? Hummm, I wonder:D
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Originally posted by Otto
"Out of 71 planes, nearly half of them are american, don't ya think its time we got some planes on the lower half of the table?
No.
care to explain why we shouldn't have more Japanese, Italian, and Russian planes?
Just give me 1 good reason why not to do it.
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BenDover,
There are some players who don't think any non-US aircraft should be added.
When Mitsu did the poll about which new Japanese aircraft people wanted he included the option for "No more Japanese aircraft ever" and some people voted for that. We only had 3 Japanese aircraft at that time, A6M5b, Ki-61-I-KAIc and N1K2-J.
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I said a good reason
this is a game based on ww2, not the frigging american civil war with planes!
And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"
I'm hoping that isn't true for the majority of American gamers
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BenDover,
Look at my location. I fly British, German and Japanese aircraft primarily.
Most American players just like WWII aircraft as a general rule, but a few are very jingoistic about it and only like American aircraft. The same can be said for British, German, Japanese, Russian and Italian players.
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what?,,,americans only like american planes?,,, ,,well you got that wrong right there,,,ben you know i never fly american planes much,,,you can ask rosco,,cheetah or anyone,what do you see me flying?,,greman planes mostly,,fw190,,,bf109,,,ta152,,somtimes a british plane,,like hurry,,or typhone,,,,i think your steriotyping people a little,,just because they would like to see a plane that should be in here,,19,000 made for godsake,,,i bet it made it every corner of the world and them some,,,,read wild blue,,it wasnt a bad plane,,,and it was proubly produced more than most hole countries could produce in there hole air force,,,lol,,,american will allways have more planes,,because they made more than anyone,,and every country used them too besides axis,,usa had to fight 2 wars,,pacific and euorpe,,,,,so they will tend to have more planes,,,,one of my fav old games,,was called,,secret planes of the luffwaffa,,didnt have any american planes to fly,,,old game,,,and had a lot of cool wild planes,,like the german flying wing and stuff like that,,,me163,,262,,,,,,so dont say people from the usa only like games about usa stuff,,because it aint true,,i love othere countries planes just as much,,,gremans more than anyones,,because there allways a tad faster than {most} usa and british planes,,,there is no reason the liberator shouldnt be in here,,,,sure somthing new from othere countries would be nice,,but put in about 10 more planes from othere coutries and you will have them all!!,,ehahehahe,,{jk},,but about,,,most of there main line planes are here,,and most produced planes{besides afew russian bombers,,that were slow and easy targets anyways},,in the end,,your going to have the same problem,,,usa will have more planes,,because in real life,,they had more models of planes,,that were used more widely and more than anything out there,,its a ww2 fact and we shouldnt loose in a ww2 sim,,just because people think its unfair that usa has more planes
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read the last sentence,
and i said reinforce the sterotype, and if it wasn't true, then, for example, why wouldn't Operation: Flashpoint been about some other NATO country?
BTW, Britain and the Comon Wealth were also in the Pacific Theatre
ps, I've *'ed out the important bits, AND I'm not the one who said anything about americans only like american planes.
Originally posted by BenDover
And people *like* Otto *reinforce* the sterotype american gamer **as** "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"
I'm hoping that isn't true for the majority of American gamers
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And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"
That just makes me wanna puke. Ask all the americans who bought Il2, IL2 DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA! Neither do most of the Video games in america. Most are set in places that dont exist. And allot are based in japan. So get the fax before you say anything.
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good show viper,,lol
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hehae,and this is getting a little off track,,,why start attacking me or americans,,,just because a importaint plane is left out?,,,can anyone say the liberator wasnt importaint to ww2?,,no,,,not one person can,,,and if they do,,there lieing,,lol
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I believe that just the enormous role the B24 played during the war itself warrants its inclusion into AH. It is inevitable that it will be included, and I dont know that we can say that of the Italian bombers that some folks want to see included. We will just have to sit back and watch.
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BTW-- the German stuff we "need" is the JU-87, HE-111, DO-17. then we can a have BOB scenario with the representative planeset.
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Thank you Hyena.
But to get back on topic. Without the Lib being the second most produced bomber in history (the Il2 beating it at 36,000). Therefor BACKING up the Fortress and providing a reliable work horse for the allies. In fact the Lib did more than the Fort ever did. Its was a transport, Sea rescue ship, Maritime recon and Patrol ship. It is said without the Lib the war in Europe probably never would have ended like it did. And as for the pacific, It was in use there up till 1943 as the PRIMARY bomber for American forces until the arrival of the B-29. But it did have it faults. Its thin Davis wing was VERRY prone to folding if hit near the fuelsalage. The thin skin and by having less armor by the Fort made the crew more prone to injury or death. It did not have as many redundant systems as the Fort thus saving weight and larger bombload. Its 10 .50 caliber Browning set in 4four turrets and two waist positions gave it less defensive firepower than the Fort but the use of strong formation made up for this. In all the Liberator could go faster, farther and with more bombload than a Flying Fortress.
This is one of the best thing i ever wrote. I am proud of this work. it took me two houers to finish but i did it.
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Originally posted by BenDover
And people like Otto reinforce the sterotype american gamer as "If Americans ain't the main part of the game, it isn't worth buying"
I’m a ‘Stereotype’? Woooo! Who’d have ever thought, growing up in Western Pennsylvania so many years ago, that I’d make it this far? It’s been a long hard struggle but I did it! Few people ever reach their life’s goal but I have. It is now complete!
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Look on the bright side Ben, Aces High is alot fairer than Warbirds3 when it comes to bombers, they don't have lancasters,
its an abomination i tell you! outrageous! Seriously though I think that rather than piling on more and more aircraft, perhaps HT would like to spend the next patch on overhauling the older aircraft textures and general appearance perhaps even introduce a more complex damage model, then once they're all looking as good as each other, than we start adding on some more aircraft. However I think perhaps a fair rota system would be appropriate so as to keep a balance between the number of aircraft for each country. Folk from other countries, although grateful for the US contribution and valuable efforts, don't want to feel pushed aside by the USA, after all this is meant to be a game that spans the greatest airborne conflict to date and as it was a world war we just want our efforts recognised.
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Originally posted by Snoopy22
Look on the bright side Ben, Aces High is alot fairer than Warbirds3 when it comes to bombers, they don't have lancasters,
its an abomination i tell you! outrageous! Seriously though I think that rather than piling on more and more aircraft, perhaps HT would like to spend the next patch on overhauling the older aircraft textures and general appearance perhaps even introduce a more complex damage model, then once they're all looking as good as each other, than we start adding on some more aircraft. However I think perhaps a fair rota system would be appropriate so as to keep a balance between the number of aircraft for each country. Folk from other countries, although grateful for the US contribution and valuable efforts, don't want to feel pushed aside by the USA, after all this is meant to be a game that spans the greatest airborne conflict to date and as it was a world war we just want our efforts recognised.
Thank you snoppy for putting it into words that I'm not nice enough to write ;)
btw, if you think i'm a jerk, come meet my school mates
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Out of 71 planes, nearly half of them are american, don't ya think its time we got some planes on the lower half of the table?
this is a game based on ww2, not the frigging american civil war with planes!
That's because unlike most other combatants, USA was in all the major theaters of war and generally speaking, fielded several aircraft that were pretty much theater specific. So you'd have us choose between either a Corsair or Pony?
I say bring the B-24 to the game. I like the impact the heavies have in Aces High and would suspect the Buffers would enjoy a new model to tote around in.
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Note 7 american bombers, that's more than all the other countries bombers COMBINED.
B-24 PFFFFT come on, HTs resources could be better spent on adding plane for Italy, Japan, and Russia, planesets that are in DESPRATE need of more planes.
6 overall planes for the Japanese forces is a DISGRACE.
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i think both sides of the argument have been pretty thouroughly made...so which bomber is most needed (which bomber, that is not in AH & would be used if it were, is most needed to complete a historical planeset?) ?
IMHO - Betty.
dont think He111 or Po-2 would be popular. italians were relatively minor players. Betty is at least fast, has heavy devensive armament and carries tordonuts as well as bombs
also - i count 8 non-american bombers: Ar234, Boston, D3a, IL-2, Ju88, Ki-67, Lanc, Mossie
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The Betty would be redundant as well, It is not so well defended as you might think those are type 99MK I cannon's not MK II's the Peggy Is a much better plane, I would rather see some Japanese CV strike planes added as apposed to the Betty.
I think lumping all those other countryies and stacking them up aganst the numbers modeled for the US is a big help in proving the case for the adation of planes for other countries NOT the US.
It's the whole god's gift attitude that kinda shins through, ya know the ugly American. I dont mean you Mr Gates I mean in general.
The Boston is a US plane, the British bought it thats all, as did the French and some other countries, but it is A US bomber, I don't see us calling that P 47 a Brazilian plane, or that P 40 Chinese, or the 109 Finish, the Boston is American.
I think realy the most telling aspect of the addations being one sided is when we get the doubles thing, like two wildcats, two P 40's, two Boston's, one Zero at a time. Don't get wrong I do enjoy the new toys but it is not helping matter's.
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Originally posted by whgates3
also - i count 8 non-american bombers: Ar234, Boston, D3a, IL-2, Ju88, Ki-67, Lanc, Mossie
The Mosquito is not a bomber. The Mosquito we have is a fighter/bomber. Meaning multi-role aircraft with fighter performance. Look through the kill records and mission records. Mosquito Mk VIs were used as fighters against Germany and have many kills of German fighters and bombers. Those missions were not something that a bomber would have been used for. Further, the Mosquito Mk VI was used by Fighter Command and Coastal Command, not Bomber Command.
There were many Mosquito bombers, we just don't have any of them in AH.
The Ar234 is completely broken and worthless at this time and counting it is disingenuous. 180 perk points for no effect is pure BS.
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you're both unpatriotic.
i'm telling john ashcroft.
;- þ
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Hey man, America is a big melting pot whear people(planes) from all countries come to add thier flavor to the soop, to make it better stronger and more interesting, right now the Soop(ah) neads a little somting to spice it up, it's a little to bland.
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WTF is soop??????????????? oh u mean soup
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soup nazi, hehe
"No soup for you!"
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LOL, I thought of that as I typed it:)
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lol
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Further, the Mosquito Mk VI was used by Fighter Command and Coastal Command, not Bomber Command.
The Mosquito Mk VI was used by 141 squadron (among others), 100 group, Bomber Command, possibly as a napalm bomber, but mostly as a night fighter
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oooooohh,,new life,,old thread,,hehehahe
Hyena, also cant be 100% sure, need to do some checking but I believe the first official Air Force One was a C54 or C118 for Harry Truman, around 1947.
well you can check on that majortom,,but the c84<~~~all so known as the b24 liberator} was the first official air force one:)
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For me there is only one reason to have a b24
Ploesti!
well its a good reason...........