Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wipass on August 22, 2002, 05:39:10 PM
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Having spent 24 hours wondering what happened and having no idea where to get information from.
I am going to set up an independant board, ala agw, not as a regular board (unless you want it) but it will be 24/7 with no registrations, just somewhere to hang out when this happens again.
If you think this is needed or warranted then email
wayne.ballinger@virgin.net
if you think this goes against the grain then email me also,
wipass
nb, I run a software company with a bb hosted in the states and in the uk also, it would be professional site but with simply a one or two forum board for those times when AH is down
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LOL!
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LOL!
had the feeling I have been here before
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I'll third, LOL.
The addiction runs deep.
(If Mommy isn't around we should have a backup Mommy to hang out with.)
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I think the forums we have now are just fine and are rarely offline, infact these last two instances are the only two I can remember in two or more years, it's just unfortunate they happened close to each other and made it look worse than it is.
As for independant...well I prefer things the way they are now with the community all under one roof. I don't think there is anything to gain by having the possibility of the community splitting like it is in WB over iEN and AGW forums. Personally AGW is not the same place it used to be, it's more like a wild west saloon these days with the sheriff nowhere to be seen. HTC are very liberal with what they allow on these forums, more so than any other publisher I know of. Things have sometimes gone a little too far but careful moderation by HTC has seen the problems stopped and users warned.
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Revvin I agree with your comments entirely, it would have been nice though had AH backed up the user list and emailed every one with a quick note, I called my credit card company just in case it was that that was the problem.
In this day and age, a 24 hour period with thousands of customers not knowing what was going on is not acceptable.
What I propose is a back up, a place to hang out and find out information, not to whine, whinge or make sugestions, if AH put up a mirror site for problems then what I propose would be unecessary,
just trying to help out cuz i like this sim and the community
wipass
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Well wipass, I can appreciate what you are saying, but email is not a solution.
With a full DS3, the emails would still be going out today. If they had an OC3, then they could send out the emails in less than 24 hours.
And clogging up another ISP's pipes with that type of mailling would prove to be,..uh,..well,...let's just say they would be able to get them all out.
Outages like this are extremely rare. Under normal circumstances, it is not unreasonable for a problem like this to be solved in less than 4 hours.
The outage before this one was really my fault. I should have seen it coming and planned accordingly.
If I recall,..this was the first major outage (talking about severed links) that HTC has ever had. Not bad for almost 4 years(?).
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skuzzy, consider my suggestion binned, just trying to help, appreciate your comments,
my motives were well intentioned
wipass
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I like the idea of another board. It would be not necessarily have to be an "AH" bb. But, if it is frequented by AH players all the better. AGW was proven to be useful simply because it was independent at one time. I would support it (another bb) at any rate.
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No problem wipass,..never saw anything but good intentions in your post.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
neese@hitechcreations.com
???
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yeah, me wonder too Staga...
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"With a full DS3, the emails would still be going out today. If they had an OC3, then they could send out the emails in less than 24 hours. "
I'm having a really hard time believing this statement, but before I call foul, a question:
How many members are there to send the emails to?
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AKDejavu Wipass and Fancy...I'm not gonna' say it but you know I'm thinkin' it.
(trying to stop snickering)
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Several Aces High player go to the WarBirds bulletin board and post brief concerns and information under the Off Topic category.
I think WB and AH bulletin boards tolerate occasional postings by competitors as professional courtesy.
Whatever, it does provide that vital insight we need when the entire AH appartus is unavailable.
It would be nice if a separate AH link could include a subject such as Aces High Current Outage Status that we could put on our web favorites list for a quick problem info fix.
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I noticed that while http://www.hitechcreationS.com was down, that http://www.hitechcreation.com was up. Perhaps during an outage HTC can put a message on that site.
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Staga, HTC was good enough to allow me an email address, temporarily, until I can get an Intenet connection.
MOSQ, HTC has done full list emails, so I know what it takes to get it done. Let's leave it at that.
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Skuzzy,
I thought I'd give you a chance to amend your bandwidth excuse statement, but since you've chosen the dodge of "I know what it takes to get it done. Let's leave it at that" answer, I have to take my shot at this.
I'll leave it at the fact I don't believe it would take 24 hours on an OC-3 line to send out emails to the entire Aces High Community.
Maybe they have an incredibly poor email server, maybe they just don't want to be bothered with writing an outage email because they don't know how long they will be down since it's out of their control, or who knows why, but to blame it on bandwidth is absolutely ludicrous.
DS-3 = T-3 = 28 x T-1 or 44.736 Mbps
OC-3 = 3 x DS-3 or 155.52 Mbps
The email from the Aces High bulletin board notifying me of your reply is 3kb. An outage email would be the same size.
The below numbers are from Arial Software site at :http://www.arialsoftware.com/bandwidth.htm
They are based on 10kb messages, 3 times as large as an outage message. A DS-3/T-3 is capable of sending 2,000,000 bulk 10kb emails in one hour. I estimate an OC-3 would be capable of around 5,000,000 emails in ONE hour.
Available Bandwidth / Data Rate (bits per second) / Average emails / hour
28.8K Modem / 28.8 Kbps/ 1300
56K Modem / 56 Kbps / 2500
T1 1.544 Mbps / 72,000
DSL 512 Kbps to 8 Mbps / 23,000-370,000
T3 44.736 Mbps / 2,000,000
So, let's see your statement: "If they had an OC3, then they could send out the emails in less than 24 hours. "
That means that if the only problem is bandwidth as you claim, we must have 5,000,000 emails/hour x 24 hours = users in the AH community.
I too run an internet based company that relies on subscriber members. We always send out emails to the entire membership when we have an expected or out of our control situation when we go down. We have no problem sending an email to everyone, it's just plain good customer service.
As I said earlier, your bandwidth excuse is ludicrous.
I've lost all respect for your opinions.
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Mosq I agree with you. Anybody remember the umark.com days. I do.
TheFatz
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MOSQ, who are you arguing with?
Skuzzy said, "If they had an OC3, then they could send out the emails in less than 24 hours."
So apparently you just proved his point.
Does HTC have an DS-3, let alone an OC-3? How much of that bandwidth do you think is taken up by the game? I don't know. You don't know. But you know what? I bet Skuzzy knows. Probably has something to do with his being there internet connection for years.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
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MOSQ you should know by now that htc does not divulge subscriber #s
Seeing as Skuzzy ran the connection for htc until recently, I think he knows what he's talking about.
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Originally posted by moose
MOSQ you should know by now that htc does not divulge subscriber #s
Seeing as Skuzzy ran the connection for htc until recently, I think he knows what he's talking about.
I'm sure he does, but he is still wrong in this case. Even allowing for protocol overhead you could shift at least 1000 3k emails every second over a DS3. That's a million customers in 17 minutes.
But the pipe size is a complete irrelevance - the limiting factor would be the mail server.
I run an ISP with 700,000 subscribers and we email them all from time to time. About 50,000 of them subscribe to an announcement list which is used specifically to notify them of this type of problem. I can understand that HTC might have very good reasons for not doing something similar but the size fo their pipe certainly isnt it.
Trip
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ok I have to say it.
If someone can't live with the BBS being down for a day.. maybe they need to think about gettin' a life.
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what is up with the regulars dogpiling anyone who calls another regular on a roadkill? scuzzy said somthing ( apperently )incorrect another professional asks for clarification gets none and then states the reasons in detail as to why he thinks the statment was wrong and then gets attacked several times . happens over and over . you boys think scuzzy needs a buddy for his fights ? or just the old over the hill white boy boys club crap?
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What in the world is wrong with some of you....you would think that any of this actually matters.
My four kids act with more restraint.
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Don't you dare, Trip!
(even if it is yours.... :) )
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Originally posted by Seeker
Don't you dare, Trip!
Dont what? Mention bigweek? Ok.
Trip
"Dont mention the war! I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!"
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Originally posted by Trip01
Dont what? Mention bigweek? Ok.
Trip
"Dont mention the war! I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!"
LOL, Trip! :D
Actually, as we were reminded in that "unmentionable place" yesterday - there is an alternative independant BBS - at http://www.aceshigh.furballcentral.com/. I am sure SNA won't mind me advertising it for him.... then if these forums do go down, there is an alternative place to post/read any news anybody may pick up.... :)
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Thrawn and Moose,
I have to admit when I first read your replies to my post I was a little tweaked. But after I thought about it I realized that to someone who doesn't work in the internet/telco world, it would make sense to believe Skuzzy's statement based on his experience of being HT's internet provider. But for folks like myself and Trip01 it was blatantly incorrect and I simply could not let it go unchallenged. We have an idea of just how much data bandwidth a DS-3 and OC-3 provides, which would be difficult for you to understand if it's your first look at these issues.
To bring it into better terms, WorldCom/UUnet carries about 1/2 of the global Internet traffic. WorldCom connects Silicon Valley/San Jose to Tokyo with a DS-3, Los Angeles to Tokyo with an OC-3. And those lines are carrying voice as well as data traffic.
That's why Skuzzy's explanation why HTC doesn't send emails to us because the pipes aren't big enough and examples of DS-3/OC-3 times to do it rang the BS alarm for me.
I personally think HTC should send out emails to us when they have an expected outage or forsee a problem in advance, instead of just posting it in the Announcements area. But that's just my opinion on their business operations. They can run their business as they see fit. But don't use lame excuses like the number of emails would jam an OC-3 pipe for 24 hours.
My only suggestion is that whenever reading/replying to forum threads, always apply your critical thinking process first, research areas you are unfamiliar with second, then reply third.
Wlfgng,
Maybe you missed it in the thread, but the issue (at least for me and a few others) was not the BBS being down, it was that the game itself was down. I, like others, wondered if the phone company had pulled the plug. It was frustrating to keep trying to log on every hour and not have my one vice available when I needed a fix! IMHO it would be good customer service to get an email that says,"The phone company trenching machine cut the fiber to our office, we'll be off-line for a day. Sorry for the inconvenience, we're working with them to expedite a fix" or something like that.
Enough said on the bandwidth topic unless Skuzzy would care to reply and set me straight. I find the entire internet and bandwidth topic very interesting and have watched in fascination for years as T-1 lines grew to OC-192, an amount of data that is almost impossible to comprehend.
For anyone that is curious about the internet, the WorldCom maps and real time latency sites are interesting.
http://www1.worldcom.com/global/about/network/maps/
http://www1.worldcom.com/global/about/network/latency/