Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: theNewB on August 25, 2002, 07:20:36 PM
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I have taken a lil time to think about what german bombers would be needed in AH.
1st I think the He-111 should be added (probably the H model)
2nd the Dornier Do 217 or Do 17 (both great AC's and are missing from AH and would keep even with the b17 and the Lancaster as a heavy bobmer)
3rd The Ju-87 (sure its crap like most ppl say but it is still needed we have a American , Japanese , and now we need a german one)
4th The Ju-52 (this plane is needed, the C47 is great but woudlnt it be good to have a german one? It has armourment and would replace the C47 in missions where it requires a german transport)
This is all i see that would be good in AH for now and would keep the community happy :) .What are your opinions on this guys?
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The Only German Bomber worth adding is the He 177, I realy don't consider the JU 87 a "bomber" rather a close suport aircraft.
The He 111 and the D0 217 are curently represented by the JU 88, The JU 88 is a much better plane than either of the these early war bombers. What the Germans nead is a late war buff and the He 177 is the best of the lot.
I can't see them doing a JU 52, for a number of reasions, the leaet of which is it's redundancy.
Redundancy, If I can stand on my soapbox and yell to the heavens on how a B 24 is a redundant choice for adation to AH, because it is already represented by the B 17 in AH( that is an American Heavy bomber) than I can say the same for the He 111 and the Do 217.
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I would like to see some early war german bombers as well as heavy, but ju88 cant be only early war bomber, like in the BoB scenario we have, ju88a-4 is really faster than the hurricane and the historical bob ju88a-1, and other bombers such as the He-111 played important bombing roles, balancing the hurris/bombers... But I guess for late war we do need a little bit heavier bomber than ju88 for germans...
But if your talkin about dive bombers as well, my vote goes for the Hs-123 and Ju87 also! Hs123 could carry 2x20mms and decent amount of bombs, about the same as the vals bombload *I think*!
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I wander if any1 made a siren noise when they dive bombed in a val:)
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I agree we need heavy German bombers but i would count the He-177 as the last on the list.Why because it was so problematic.But none the less it still should be appart of AH.But I was just pointing out what most of us would like to see (usuing the knowledge that i see on the BB) in our AH bomber selection.
Heh Ben:p
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from what i've read, the krauts considered the He177 to be somewhat of a failure, crew nicknamed it "the flaming coffin", mechanics thought it most troublesome. certainly not the only luftwaffe bomber worth adding. even for a heavy, i think the Ju 290 might be a more attractive option, as it was a paratroop carrier as well, but the kraut bomber i would like to see most is the Heinkel 219. although not really a bomber, it did preform this duty well. it seems that the He219 was sort of a german equivalent to the Mosquito, but faster (top speed w/out nitrous oxide boost =~ 410 MPH) & more heavily armed (4 x 30mm + 2 x 20mm). mostly it was used as a night fighter, but it did bombing & torpedo bombing as well
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Originally posted by theNewB
I agree we need heavy German bombers but i would count the He-177 as the last on the list.Why because it was so problematic.But none the less it still should be appart of AH.But I was just pointing out what most of us would like to see (usuing the knowledge that i see on the BB) in our AH bomber selection.
Heh Ben:p
The failures arguement doesn't hold much ground in AH.
We have numerous planes in AH that had a history of failures that isn't modeled.
Want and example? Take the n1k2j. This plane had a HORRIBLE engine record, tons had engine failures yet it is in AH and the problems aren't represented. Failures would be cool for the first few times it happend then it would just get annoying.
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cajun the ju88a-4 is not faster then a hurricane, complete bs AH allied propaganda.
its 12 miles faster then the ju88a-1. The hurricane is still faster then it at all altitudes.
In the BoB our ju88s at no time flew at full manifold. They even slowed down when attacked.
A4 max speed is 292mph empty (no bombs) (ah 290)
A1 max speed is 280mph empty (no bombs)
The Hurricane MkI does 318mph.(ah 325 with wep)
12 mph top speeds makes little difference in this event. The Ju 88s involved in the Battle of Britain were a mix of Ju 88A-1s and Ju 88A-5s. The Ju 88A-4 was designed to use the more powerful Ju 211J engine, and longer wings. However these new engines were not yet ready for delivery, so the interim Ju 88A-5 entered service instead, in Summer of 1940. It still had 1,200 hp engines (a4 had 1,400 hp eng), but received the longer wings (and longer ailerons) of the a4.
ju-88a1 was powered by a pair of 1,200 hp Jumo 211B-1 engines, and could reach 450 km/h
ju-88a4 was powered by a pair of 1,400 hp Junkers 211J eng and could reach 472 km/h.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/hurri1speed.gif)
325 @ 17k
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/models/charts/ju88a4speed.gif)
290 @ 17k
Please dont make untrue statements. I will assume you did so out of a lack of knowledge and simply repeated AH raf/allied propaganda.
the he111 was much tougher then the ju88 and Do-17z had a lower top speed then the ju88 but at cruise speed it wouldnt matter.
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brady,
You're thinking of the Do17. The Do217 is markedly superior to the Ju88A-4.
Wotan,
The fact of the matter is that in AH we run at full power constantly. That means that the Hurri is only going a little faster than the Ju88 and has a much harder interception than was historical.
The German bombers attacking the UK cruised at what? 180mph? 200mph? Speeds that are far easier for the Hurricane to deal with.
As to the drive of this thread, I think the Ju188A-2 and He177A-5 should be the next big German bombers.
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"I can't see them doing a JU 52, for a number of reasions, the leaet of which is it's redundancy. "
We don't need another Italian fighter Brady. It'd be redundant--after all, we already HAVE an Italian fighter. We don't need an SM 79 bomber. We already HAVE bombers that are just as good and/or better. For that matter, why do we need to have so many different types of fighter planes? I mean, they all do the same thing--shoot down other airplanes. Isn't it redundant to bother with adding so many?
Sorry, but your argument about redundancy doesn't hold water. What matters is CHOICE, and right now the C-47 is the ONLY choice for aerial supply/paratrooper drops. There are TWO heavy bombers in AH. In BETA AH had more fighters than that!
The Ju-52 would DOUBLE the number of transport planes available. It's be GREAT for Allies vs Axis setups and it'd even see use in the MA (doutlessly LW-oriented squads would choose it over the C-47). Adding the B-24 (Or He-177) would increase the number of heavy bombers available by 50%; adding them both would double the heavy bomber choices available.
J_A_B
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karnak I am talking about the BoB scenario in which I am axis CO.
the ju88a-4 has a order setting cruise well below full man. At cruise setting the ju88-a4 and do-17z will be within 8 mph. Hardly noticeable. Same goes for the ju88a-1 or a-5.
Leading up to this event folks have suggested the ju-88a4 was to good for this event.
I am pointing out that this is unwarranted. The ju-88s in the AH event bob do not cruise at full man and do not cruise at optimum alt.
In the main where planes are run at full man it wouldnt matter.
But in the main you dont have ju88s vrs hurri 1s
ju88a-1
Powerplant: Two 1,200 hp Junkers Jumo 211B-1 twelve-cylinder liquid-cooled engine.
Span: 59ft 10¾in (18.25m)
Length: 47ft 1in (14.35m)
Max Speed: 286 mph (461km/h) at 16,000 ft (4,876m)(ahs ju88a-4 max speed 290)
Armament: Three 7.9mm machine guns in front and rear cockpit mountings and ventral gondola.
Bombload: Normal load of 3,968lb (1,801kg) carried on gour underwing pylons, plus small internal capacity.
Accommodation: Pilot and three gunners/navigators/bomb-aimers.
Recognition:Long, thin fuselage with triangular fin and glazed nose. Straight wings mounted well forwrd on the fuselage with mainwheels retracting into engine cowlings.
DO-17z
Powerplant: Two 1,000 hp Bramo 323P nine-cylinder air-cooled engines.
Span: 59ft ¾in (18.00m)
Length: 52ft 0in (15.85m)
Max Speed: 265 mph (427km/h) at 16,400 ft (4,998m)
Armament: Between four and eight 7.9mm machine guns in front, rear and beam cockpit mountings and ventral position.
Bombload: Normal load of 2,200lb (1,000kg).
Accommodation: Pilot and four gunners/navigators/bomb-aimers.
Recognition:Thin, 'pencil' fuselage with bulged forward fuselage featuring heavily-framed cockpit and ventral gun position. Small twin fins at the rear. Mainwheels retract into engine fairings.
Theres a 25 mph max speed difference between the ju88a-4 and the do-17z
At cruise settings they are about the same. The do-17 is better armed then the ju-88 but carries a lot less of a bomb load. It was "weaker" then the ju-88 and he-111.
he-111
Powerplant: Two 1,100 hp Daimler-Benz DB601A-1 twelve-cylinder liquid-cooled engines.
Span: 74ft 1¾in (22.60m)
Length: 53ft 9½in (16.39m)
Max Speed: 247 mph (398km/h) at 16,400 ft (4,998m)
Armament: Three 7.9mm machine guns in nose, dorsal and ventral positions.
Bombload: Normal load of 4,410lb (2,002kg).
Accommodation: Pilot and two gunners/navigators/bomb-aimers.
Recognition:Sleek, shark-like fuselage with faired-in cockpit featuring large glazed areas. Prominent fin with gun position above and below the fuselage. Mainwheels retract into engine fairings.
It had lower max speed then both the ju88 and do-17 but carried more bombs. It was armed similiar to the ju88 but was the tougher of the three.
In the event we are running it would have been great to have all these aircraft represented. But to say that the ju88a-4 faster then a hurricane or suggest that the axis have an advantage because of the ju88a-4 is not correct.
I wont give out my instruction for how the ju88s are to be flown and operated because theres 2 frames left. they are however being operated well below full man and at historically correct altitudes.
The point of my post was to dispell the AH allied/raf propaganda about the ju88a-4 is incorrect.
After all you know my opinion on bombers in general for the main.
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Wotan,
Ju88A-4s using cruise settings are entirely appropriate in my mind. I'm not participating in the BoB scenario, but I think you're running your side very well if you insist on your pilots using historical speeds.
The BoB environments that I am familiar with are those in the CT, where every Ju88A-4 I've run into has been going flat out. I don't think that the Do17 or He111 would change this as it is an issue with how AH models engine heat and wear.
In a controlled environment like the BoB scenario the Ju88 does fine. Though it would be nice to have some of the more common and weaker German bombers there too, they are far from required.
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We don't need another Italian fighter Brady. It'd be redundant--after all, we already HAVE an Italian fighter. We don't need an SM 79 bomber. We already HAVE bombers that are just as good and/or better. For that matter, why do we need to have so many different types of fighter planes? I mean, they all do the same thing--shoot down other airplanes. Isn't it redundant to bother with adding so many?
Lighten up man, besides I dont want a SM 79 I want a Cant Z 1007:)
"Sorry, but your argument about redundancy doesn't hold water. What matters is CHOICE, and right now the C-47 is the ONLY choice for aerial supply/paratrooper drops. There are TWO heavy bombers in AH. In BETA AH had more fighters than that! "
The problem I see in modeling a JU 52 is well the time frankely, I would rater see something else made in the time it would take them to model a German transport, the C 47 is faster and that 7.9mm MG on the JU 52 is going to scare nobody:)
"The Ju-52 would DOUBLE the number of transport planes available. It's be GREAT for Allies vs Axis setups and it'd even see use in the MA (doutlessly LW-oriented squads would choose it over the C-47). Adding the B-24 (Or He-177) would increase the number of heavy bombers available by 50%; adding them both would double the heavy bomber choices available."
True it would, but J_A_B I am shure you have noticed this 99% of all this BS on the BBS is about personal oppinion, and lobbying for whatever we feal is right for what ever our reasion. I lobby for the underdogs, IF US planes were unrepresented I would lobby for them, as it is adding planes that add new dimenshions to the game, new abalities and expand the CT, and the CM corp's tools is what I am after, and adding a plane like a B 24 is not somthing I would back because it simply add's nothing we dont already have a US heavy bomber from WW 2, a lot of fighters are from diferent times in the war, and different models, they add somthing because they represent different time frames differnt set up's. Heck during Stalengrade in the CT We had NO Soviet planes from that battle the only planes that were in service that AH had modeled were the Brit ones we added. Thats why their are so many different planes added, other than the Furball MA whear realy only the late war planes can compeat truley effectively. So If you add a Cant Z 1007 you add somthing new to the game and expand the set up's we can do in the CT or for a special event, do I expect it to be used in the MA, well for torpedo sorties maybe but not much else.
Karnak, I feal the JU 88 is a better bomber than the Do 217 primarly because of it superlative handeling and dive bombing abalities, in terms of defensive firepower if we look at the models that were in exestance at the time of our A4 JU 88, they are realy very simmilar, granted the Do 217 could cary aprox, 2000 pounds more, it should be remembered that our JU 88 is missing the outer wing bomb mounts that would lessen this advantage it has, and that is it's only real advantage over the JU 88, slightly larger bomb load.
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THIS is the Brady I miss seeing :)
Actually, from a CT/scenario perspective I'm surprised that you aren't clamoring for a Ju-88. The Goonie is probably the most common sunbtitution in the CT right now.
While supply planes might not have the same "glamor" as fighters, the Goon in AH sees more use than many of the AH fighters; an alternative supply plane would doutlessly see as much if not more use in the MA and the CT/scenarios than something like a Cant Z 1007
J_A_B
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Hi Karnak,
>You're thinking of the Do17. The Do217 is markedly superior to the Ju88A-4.
Do you have a good overview on the Do 217's loadout options?
I've only seen one for the Ju 88A-4:
Front bomb bay: 18 x 50 kg
Rear bomb bay: 10 x 50 kg
Inboard wing root racks: Up to 1800 kg each
Outboard wing root racks: Up to 500 kg each
Optional outer wing racks: Up to 500 kg each
(from "Junkersflugzeuge 1933 - 1945" by Dressel/Griehl)
The Do 217 seems to have been able to carry 2500 kg internally or 4000 kg in total, but I don't know in which combinations.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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and that 7.9mm MG on the JU 52 is going to scare nobody
correction all Ju-52 models
Armament: one 13mm or 7.92mm trainable rearward firing MG in rear dorsal position, provision for one 7.92mm trainable MG in forward dorsal position, and one 7.92mm trainable lateral-firing MG in each of the tow beam positions
so it wouldnt be 1 MG it would be 5. You can put up a good fight if you can gun and pilot.
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German Warplanes of World War II (Chris Chant)
Do-217E-2, first aircraft were issued to the Stab (staff section) of Stukageschwader 2 for operational trials in the summer of 1941:
Load up to 4000kg of disposable stores carried in lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 2500kg and on up to two hardpoints (both under the wing with one unit rated at 1800kg or two units each rated at 1300 or 250kg, and generally comprising an internal load of two 1000kg SC-1000bombs and two 250kg SC-250 bombs, or four 500kg SC-500 bombs, or eight 250kg SC-250 bombs and an external load of one 1800kg SC-1800 bomb or LT F5 torpedo, or two Hs 293A anti-ship missiles, or two 250kg SC-250 bombs.
515kmh@5200m, 440kmh@SL, cruising speed max 415kmh@5200m and economical 395kmh @ optimum altitude
Initial climb rate 216m/min with maximum internal weapons load
Service ceiling 9000m
Max. range 2800km with auxiliary fuel, typical range 2300km with standard fuel.
Fixed armament one 15mm MG151 w/250rounds in the lower port side of the nose, one 13mm MG131 trainable MG w/500rounds in the power operated dorsal turret, one 13mm MG131 trainable rearward firing MG w/1000rounds in the ventral step position, one 7,92mm MG15 trainable forward-firing MG in the nose, one 7,92mm MG15 trainable lateral-firing MG in each of the cockpit side windows and, in Do217E-2/R19 subvariant, one remotely controlled 7,92mm MG81z rearward-firing two barrel MG in the tail cone.
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I must vouch for Wotan's instructions in the BoB scenario. I had wondered why we had a ceiling altitude, and a max manifold pressure. Now I understand, and can confirm that at least our flight of Ju-88's were operated at the correct (slower) settings for the entire first two frames.
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I agree with the original poster. We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset (the JU88A4 we have is hard to catch in a hurri 1). good on Wotan for having his JU-88's fly at reduced settings to simulate historical AC. But, would be much better if we had the historical opponents.
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Typicaly the JU 52 transport had only 3 three MG 15's(7.9mm), one dorsal and 2 beam positions. So I suspect that if we did get a JU 52, it would have this configuration, I should of said those instead of that:). Still the MG 15 is prety usless for detering a hispano armed fighter, or any other fighter for that matter. If I had a choice of the two in a hangewr ofr MA use I would take the goon, it's faster, and goon flights are long and slow as it is. Granted I would look better in a JU 52:)
If we are going to debate what future transport we must have then I would strongly sugetst the Tabby, it would be easy for HTC to do, was faster than the C 47 and had a 13mm MG and 2 7mm mg's for defense, a much better choice than the JU 52 for an Axis transport.
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Breda BR.20 & Fiat CR.42 are also needed to fill out Battle of Britain planeset...also maybe Blenheims are needed for the RAF to attack accidentally - is there ever going to be a Battle of Barking Creek scenario?
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If we are going to debate what future transport we must have then I would strongly sugetst the Tabby, it would be easy for HTC to do, was faster than the C 47 and had a 13mm MG and 2 7mm mg's for defense, a much better choice than the JU 52 for an Axis transport.
Granted. But if you think about it all transports are easy targets i just suggested the Ju-52 because everyone has heard/seen it.Other then that im all for another axis transport plane whatever it may be.It could be a Gotha 244 or a Arado 232,The thing is axis will need a transport sometime or another.
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Sorry Wotan, wasnt sure on the exact top speed of the a4/a1 but I knew they were different... however it is still pretty challenging for the hurris to engage the bomber formations, & I have been out run in a hurri by a ju88 many times in BoB games I sometimes host in h2h.
But my point was not really the top speed of ju88, but the other bombers used such as the he-111, which you said had a top speed of 247mph, and not as good armament as ju88a-4.
But since we don't have them, Its "fair enough" to use ju88 inplace, I wasnt sayin fly them at low throttle or anything as others have, and I'll agree its not too big of an advantage.
BoB was just the only example I could think of at the time, I don't mind fighting Ju88a-4's this scenario, just using it as an example of how *Simular* scenarios could be improoved...
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Typicaly the JU 52 transport had only 3 three MG 15's(7.9mm), one dorsal and 2 beam positions. So I suspect that if we did get a JU 52, it would have this configuration, I should of said those instead of that. Still the MG 15 is prety usless for detering a hispano armed fighter, or any other fighter for that matter. If I had a choice of the two in a hangewr ofr MA use I would take the goon, it's faster, and goon flights are long and slow as it is. Granted I would look better in a JU 52
Not entirely useless, though. I remember the last scenario I participated in back in Warbirds; it was the France 1940 scenario -- Blitzkrieg? Anyway, I flew a Ju-52 for the entirety of that scenario, and on one mission managed to get a pair of kills -- one clueless twit who was stupid enough to give me a stable firing solution, rather than a tracking shot, and one knee-jerking fellow who made a particularly good low-altitude curving approach on me... and then jerked his stick when I pinged him and rolled the wrong way, diving inverted into the ground. He did get my elevators, though, and I was forced to taxi my way to my target, where I got all my troops out before I was spotted and strafed dead on the ground. Musta been pretty embarrassing for those two, though, losing an air-to-air engagement with a Ju-52...
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Veriety is what makes this game so much fun.
I'd fly goons much more often if I didn't have to fly the C-47 all the time. Why not add the Ju-52? maybe even a British C-47!
And Canadian Mustangs!
Why not, eh?
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the hinkel 111 does need to be here too,,the he 111 of 1943,,could carry over 7,150lb of bombs!!,,more than a b17,,,more than a ju88 could,,,it wasnt as fast,,but could out carry it any day of the week,,,it had a model of he 111,,with a attachable 115mm cannon under its belly instead of bombs,<~~wouldnt that be nice too see?,,lol,,,it could carry,,v1 guided missles,,,,,it had radio controlled Bv 246 glide missiles,,,,it was a great plane,,and not represented well by the ju88,,,,,it was more versitle,,,and used alot more for experiments,,because it was a stable platform for experimental torpedoes,,,i bet brady is saying,,oohh no,,not him again,,ehahe,,{just joking},,but for some reason,,your being so bias against very popular bombers,,,he 111,,,b24,,,they wernt there just for filler,,they were all a importaint part of ww2,, ,,,it shouldnt be bias to any bombers or fighters that were produced alot,,,no matter if its unfair or not,,,,i know lots of people wanna see the b29,,,but,,that wont happen soon,,,i dont think,,,because it was so far ahead of everything,,it would rule the skies,,,when the enola gay dropped its bomb,,,, ,,it could out clime any japanies fighter in the sky,,now thats a mean bomber,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,but besides the b29,,,,,,he 111,,,b24,,,,both main line bombers,,,and should be in here sooner or later,,,you have too,,or you wont have a complete ww2 simulator,,,,cant leave out a few planes,,just because some one thought they were ugly,,,or just dont like them,,because they want some othere weird hardly produced plane in its place,,lol,,and those 2 bombers were the back bone of there countries
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What's the thing with ,,,,,,,,,,, ?
"We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset."
If that's the case we also NEED Blenheim, Defiant and Gladiator; Without those planes you cant have historical planeset for BoB.
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well the defiant gladiator and blen didnt have much of an impact on the bob.
Do 17 flew way more sorties then any model ju88. I can post numerous german aircraft that were in service and used over britain during bob that we dont need to have.
Ideally the he 111 do 17 and ju 87 would have made for a near complete scenario.
No one is missing the defiant :)
the do 17 carried less of a bomb load and the he111 was slow but tough.
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according to the RAF's Bo'B web site the Ju88A-4 flew w/ KG 51 during the Bo'B, and the Do 215 also participated, although another web site i looked at said the Do 215 was not delivered until Jan 1941, so the RAF's info may not be 100% accurate...at least they've given up their claims on the He 113
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Originally posted by Staga
"We NEED the HE111, JU-87 and the DO-17. They would fill out a historical BOB planeset."
If that's the case we also NEED Blenheim, Defiant and Gladiator; Without those planes you cant have historical planeset for BoB.
The Spitfire Mk IIa has more of a place in the BoB planeset than all of those combined.
That list also leaves out the Wellington, which was active from the start of the war. Something that the Blenheim backers persistantly overlook.
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I am pro Wellington.
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IMHO there's already quite suitable plane set for BoB;
- Germans have Ju-88 A-4 and Britons have Boston III
- Me Bf-109 E4 + F4 / Bf-110 C4/b vs. Hurricane Mk I / IIc + Spit V (maybe P-40B)
I really can't see any reason to model a plane like Do-17 when axis already have a medium bomber from that era. Same goes with Blenheim/Wellington when there's already Boston III.
Only planes (imo of course) needed would be Ju-87B (and D+G variants for eastern front) and Spitfire II. Modelling other types for BoB would be wasting of resources (imo again).
IMO (again) what people flying german iron need is a late war, unperked, medium/heavy bomber like He-177, Ju-188 or Do-217. Creating anything else is creating different kind of targets for MA use.
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The planes I'd like to see for the BoB environment are the Ju87B-1 and He111H-16.
I know we are already covered for a medium German bomber, but it just isn't the BoB without the He111.
I don't think any more British aircraft are needed for the BoB environment. British bombers were not significantly affecting the war, until they repeated bombed Berlin and pissed the Nazi high command off. And the mistake of the Nazi high command is unlikely to be repeated in any simulation.
No, the Hurricane Mk I and Spitfire Mk Ia are plenty for the British.
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Hi Karnak,
>The planes I'd like to see for the BoB environment are the Ju87B-1 and He111H-16.
The He 111H-16 wasn't available in the BoB - the types used were the H-1, H-2 and H-3. The most representative He 111 probably is the H-6, the most capable the H-16.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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I would rather see few cockpit updates than a He-111.
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i would rather see a new plane then cockpit updates,,,,lol,,,,he111 was about the best bomber it had in production,,,could carry more,,and had guided missles,,and a bombay 115mm cannon version,,,,all so it had a ver with a 20mm gun,,and 4,,7.62
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He-111 is a nice bird for a early war scenario but in MA, where planes are mostly used, it's nothing but a target.
Actually I just did a one hour mission in He-111 with few squad mates and a couple Bf110s escorting (did got a british AA gun, inf and damaged a 2 pounder AT-gun).
Plane works nice in wwiiol but IMHO there's plenty of other planes I would like to see in AH than another early war medium bomber in Axis hangars.
He111 in WWIIOL (http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/wwiiol/he111_orkki4.jpg)
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Yes the He 111 rocks in WW2 online, Which after their latest updates is very flyable now. It's kinda like this Huge Ct or special event that never ends:) Tanks are modeled very well to.
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sorry hyena but there was a case of a b-17 taking off with 16,000lbs of bombs and many took off with 12,000 to bomb V1 sites hell even the old 26 took off with 8,000lbs of bombs
but anyway back to subject he-111 would be nice along with the stuka possibly the Do-17...........but most german bombers are armed with 7.92mm's for defensive armerment that Hitech would add
and i just can't get rid of flying a plane that has 2 really durable eng's, twelve .50 cal's, 8,000 max bombload (as far as i have read thats the most), 310mph max speed, carried torp's (ah won't add that feature:mad: :mad: ) and has one bad bellybutton attitude:cool: .............
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Originally posted by whgates3
Breda BR.20 & Fiat CR.42 are also needed to fill out Battle of Britain planeset...also maybe Blenheims are needed for the RAF to attack accidentally - is there ever going to be a Battle of Barking Creek scenario?
Agreed 100%! And the gloster gladiator as well, I mean it was the first fighter to engage enemy bombers in the BoB if I remember correctly!
I think this is how my BoB squad should look :D :
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hey nod, i love the b26 now, got gang banged by a 190d9 (he managed to get that close to me while i was watching the spit in the waist guns) & a spit (not sure which mk)
I either blew something important off the 190 or it was a crappy ditch, the spit i hit a few times with the right waist, then he zoomed in front of me and i finished him off with the front guns :)
Then i went afk for a few, and a p47 straffed my b26, nocked out my left elevator plus left waist, i managed to get a few good shots with the tail gun, i must've damage the pee47 badly cos he peeled off and never showed up again :D
Then i nackered my engines landing too steep:rolleyes:, managed to roll onto the runway though
But back to the topic, add the he111 with guided missiles (.target 262 :)) and early war planes are better than these latewar dive onto target, either either blow them away with a few shots, or mess up and run your arse off
"No soop for you!":cool:
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The Gladiator flew in the Bo'B w/ one fighter command squadron - 247 & w/ the Fleet Air Arm. also 19 squadon flew the Spit Mk. Ib armed w/ 4 x .303 cal + 2 x 20mm
247 Squad Gladiator
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19 squadon Spit Mk. 1b - isn't this thread supposed to be about luftwaffe bombers?
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Very nice pic thanks!
...Didnt know they had a spitfire w/20 mms in bob!
Were'nt there 3-4 squads armed with galadiators in BoB?
At least thats what I read all the sites I've been to...
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only RAF squad that operated Galdiators on home defense during Bo'B is 247 according to RAF Bo'B web site, but the Fleet Air Arm operated them as well, as for the Spit Ib cannon, they tended to jam after the 1st round was fired. this was due to how the cannon were installed in the wings...when i was looking this up i also found out that the Spit Mk. II went into service august 1940, and presumably straight into the Bo'B. Spit Mk. II used Merlin 12 engine & had ~ 145 HP more than Spit I. normal armament was still 8 x O.3O3
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Originally posted by whgates3
19 squadon Spit Mk. 1b - isn't this thread supposed to be about luftwaffe bombers?
The cannons repeatedly jammed........ I dont mean occasionally....... I mean repeatedly...mission after mission........by early Sept. 19Squad had begged some battered Mk1a's to use instead of the 1.b's..............
Bader was so horrified by the troubles 19 squadron had (his 242 was based at the same field) that he resisted the use of cannon until there were simply no more m/c equipped AC available.
The MkIIa Spit did not see service in the BOB......it entered active front line duty later than mid September 40 by which time Sea Lion was "postponed indefinately" and the LW attacks turned form the BoB to the "Blitz".
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:D
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well nod,,every plane casn carry over its limit,,,thats why you see,,longer the war lasted,,more bombs planes could carry,,,,a b17 in a ww2 sim carries 6,000,,in bomb load,,,strip it down and ya,,it proubly would carry more,,i know i heard of them carring more,,im sure lots of planes have,,but it was made for 6,000,,which you need to relize 6,000lb of bombs aint no joke,,lol,,and in real life,,to kill a hanger,,would only take about a 100lb bomb,,lol,,there are some huge ww2 hangers not far from me,,and you can tell they aint built to take bomb hits,,heck a grenade would proubly take it out allmost,,lol,,,the he111,,could carry lots of stuff too,,and i seen both planes side by side in the confederate air force,,even talked to the pilot of both planes,,the hinkle has less motors,,,but it did have a 20mm cannon,,and 4 ,,7.92,,,and launchable v1 rockets,,and radio guided missles,,,that they used against ships,,,and a 115mm cannon under its belly instead of bomb load you could add,,,,could you imagine that fun?,,lol,,,,no matter what,,you can all say somthing bad about it,,but it was a really good plane,,,and one of the most produced greman bombers made,,,any reason it shouldnt be in here?,,,any ww2 mass produce planes should be in here,,lol
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tilt is correct and I believe 19 squadron only had half a dozen or so of ib's.
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no doubt about it the LW NEED a later version of ju88s OR a totally new type like he177,ju-188,do 217 etc
for long enough we've had to suffer the early war version in CT/MA special events etc.
surely we deserve to get something with half decent defensive fire by now? :)
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no doubt about it the LW NEED a later version of ju88s OR a totally new type like he177,ju-188,do 217 etc
...of the above mentioned A/C, did any have decent defensive firepower? everything i've read indicates that on all of those planes the majority of the guns were 7.92mm type...not so for the Ju 290 - defensive armament was 7 x 20mm + 1 x 13m. ceiling was only 6000m, though...
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thats about 20,000 feet though, how many bombers do you see at 30k?
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The JU 188, had one MG 151/20 cannon, one MG 131 and one MG 81Z, this vaired some what of course the anti shiping Varients had the 20mm in the nose and the normal bomber varients had it in the Dorsal turet.
The He 177, had one MG 81,two MG 151/20, MG 81, and three MG 131. The MG 151 were in the tail and nose, all three MG 131 were in dorsal turets, and the single MG 81 was in the nose as well, the MG 81Z was in the rear facing Ventrail tray.
Very few JU 290's say service, very few.
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Cajun, the Gloster Gladiator saw most success in the colonies of the British Empire and was the only real form of defence at the start of the Seige of Malta, some believe the island of Malta was more heavily bombed than Berlin was throughout the entire war. If you've never heard of the island of Malta it controlled the shipping lanes of the Mediterranian and from here troop convoys and other military hardware could be intercepted as it travelled to North Africa to aid the German war machine. Back to Luftwaffe bombers, I'd like to see a He111 and especially a Ju87.
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Yeah snoopy, I read all about that :)
I allso found though it went out of service with the RAF in 42-43 it was still in service in Sweeden untill 1947!
Btw... I was reading in Q/A forums and HT said we will definitly get a stuka!... don't know when though...
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Very few JU 290's say service, very few.[/B]
Ja, only 65 built, but there were less than 300 Ar 234s built, why not lower the bar a bit - Ju 290 was a troop transport as well & thus could be multi functional, with mixed loads one might even be able to finish off a field & capture it in the same sortie...admittedly the he177,ju-188,do 217 are more deserving, but possibly less interesting, just mentioned the Ju290 because someone was asking for good defensive armament
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Armament: (P-2) 7.92mm Rheinmetall MG 15 machine gun on manual mountings in nosecap, open dorsal position and ventral gondola; (H-3) same, plus fixed forward-firing MG 15 or 17, two MG 15's in waist windows and (usually) 20mm MG FF cannon in front of ventral gondola and (sometimes) fixed rear-firing MG 17 in extreme tail; internal bomb load up to 2,000kg in vertical cells, stored nose-up; external bomb load (at expense of internal) one 2,000kg on H-3 or two 500kg on others; later marks carried one or two 765kg torpedoes, Bv 246 glide missiles, Hs 293 rocket missiles, Fritz X radio-controlled glide bombs or one FZG-76 (V-1) cruise missile
Speed: maximum speed (H-3) 415km/h; (P-2) 390km/h at 5,000m (at maximum weight neither version could exceed 330km/h
Climb: climb to 4,500m 30-35min at normal gross weight, 50min at maximum
Ceiling: service ceiling (both) around 7,800m at normal gross weight, under 5,000m at maximum
Range: range with maximum bomb load (both) about 1,200km
Weight: empty (H-3) 7,720kg; (P-2) 8,000kg; maximum loaded (H-3) 14,000kg; (P-2) 13,500kg
Wingspan: (H-3) 22.6m
Length: (H-3) 16.4m
Height: (H-3) 4m
Crew: five/six
History: first flight (He 111V1 prototype) 24 February 1935; (pre-production He 111B-0) August 1936; (production He 111B-1) 30 October 1936; (first He 111E series) January 1938; (first production He 111P-1) December 1938; (He 111H-1) January or February 1939; final delivery (He 111H-23) October 1944; (Spanish C.2111) late 1956
Users: China, Germany (Luftwaffe, Lufthansa), Hungary, Iraq, Romania, Spain, Turkey and this is the he 111 model Heinkel He 111B, E, H, ,,most did have a 20mm out the front
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Well JU 290's were not used as bombers to much, more Long rang ocean patroll, It was the exception rahter than the rule that it actually Bombed land targets, I think this might be the only argument aganst it compared to the He 177, that is to say the He 177 would fit into more CT and CM set up's than a JU 290, simply based on usage(historicaly). O and the He 177 was stressed for shallow angle dive atacks.
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I like the idea of the Ju52.
It seems many are forgetting the Ju52 was a Medium Bomber, ad bad one but a medium bomber.
Just think Ju52 flying in area, does it have paras or bombs?
Ok it only has a maximum load of 500kg (and I think its 10x50kg) but that could really annoy someone...
The Ju52 would givew the axis side a transport ideal for special scnearios, such as crete where the axis forces used hundreds and the British tried to stop them (in fact stopped a lot of them)
Just think trying to escort that....
Also what on earth is a tabby, whats it real name.....
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a tabby is a kittie;)
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L2D3-5 series, was a licensed built DC-3, The Japanese put more powerfull engines on it thus a higher speed and they armed it. That is whay it would be so easy for them to model it, the Russians also had a Licensed built vershion, and It was armed as well.