Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Catching Spies on August 26, 2002, 10:14:57 AM
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Notes from a suicide manual (just incase any of you want to practice in the privacy of your home)
The introduction of Japanese kamikaze pilots was one of the most dramatic developments of the second world war. But what motivated these young men to fly their fatal missions? There are some clues in the manual they carried in their cockpits for inspiration, and which is now published in English for the first time. Here are some extracts.
The mission of to-go units
Transcend life and death. When you eliminate all thoughts about life and death, you will be able to totally disregard your earthly life. This will also enable you to concentrate your attention on eradicating the enemy with unwavering determination, meanwhile reinforcing your excellence in flight skills.
Exert the best in yourself
Strike an enemy vessel that is either moored or at sea. Sink the enemy and thus pave the road for our people's victory.
Take a walk around the airfield
When you take this walk, be aware of your surroundings. This airstrip is the key to the success or failure of your mission. Devote all your attention to it. Look at the terrain. What are the characteristics of the ground? What are the length and width of the airstrip? In case you will take off at dusk, or early morning, or after sundown, what are the obstacles to be remembered: an electric pole, a tree, a house, a hill?
How to pilot a fully dressed-up [heavily equipped] aircraft that you dearly love
Before taking off. (After taxiing the plane from the camouflaged emplacement to the airstrip.) You can envision your target firmly in your mind as you bring your plane to a standstill.
Breathe deeply three times. Say in your mind: "Yah" (field), "Kyu" (ball), "Joh" (all right) as you breathe deeply. Proceed straight ahead on the airstrip. Otherwise you may damage the landing gears.
Circle above the airstrip right after take-off. Do so at the minimum height of 200m. Circle at an angle within five degrees and keep your nose pointed downwards.
Principles you should know
Keep your health in the very best condition. If you are not in top physical condition, you will not be able to achieve an ideal hit by tai-atari (body-crashing).
Just as you cannot fight well on an empty stomach, you cannot deftly manipulate the control stick if you are suffering from diarrhoea, and cannot exert calm judgment if you are tormented by fever.
Be always pure-hearted and cheerful
A loyal fighting man is a pure-hearted and filial son.
Attain a high level of spiritual training
In order that you can exert the highest possible capability, you must prepare well your inner self. Some people say that spirit must come first before skill, but they are wrong. Spirit and skill are one. The two elements must be mastered together. Spirit supports skill and skill supports spirit.
Aborting your mission and returning to base
In the event of poor weather conditions when you cannot locate the target, or under other adverse circumstances, you may decide to return to base. Don't be discouraged. Do not waste your life lightly. You should not be possessed by petty emotions. Think how you can best defend the motherland. Remember what the wing commander has told you. You should return to the base jovially and without remorse.
When turning back and landing at the base
Discard the bomb at the area designated by the commanding officer. Fly in circles over the airfield. Observe conditions of the airstrip carefully. If you feel nervous, piss. Next, ascertain the direction of the wind and wind speed. Do you see any holes in the runway? Take three deep breaths.
The attack
Single-plane attack. Upon sighting a target, remove the (bomb's) safety pin. Go full speed ahead towards the target. Dive! Surprise the enemy. Don't let the enemy take time to counter your attack. Charge! Remember: the enemy may change course but be prepared for the enemy's evasive action. Be alert and avoid enemy fighters and flak fire.
Dive attack
This varies depending on the type of the aircraft. If you are approaching the enemy from a height of 6,000m, adjust your speed twice; or from a lower height of 4,000m, adjust speed once.
When you begin your dive, you must harmonise the height at which you commence the final attack with your speed. Beware of over-speeding and a too-steep angle of dive that will make the controls harder to respond to your touch. But an angle of dive that is too small will result in reduced speed and not enough impact on crashing.
Where to crash (the enemy's fatal spots)
Where should you aim? When diving and crashing on to a ship, aim for a point between the bridge tower and the smoke stack(s). Entering the stack is also effective.
Avoid hitting the bridge tower or a gun turret. In the case of an aircraft carrier, aim at the elevators. Or if that is difficult, hit the flight deck at the ship's stern.
For a low-altitude horizontal attack, aim at the middle of the vessel, slightly higher than the waterline. If that is difficult, in the case of an aircraft carrier, aim at the entrance to the aircraft hangar, or the bottom of the stack. For other vessels, aim close to the aft engine room.
Just before the crash
Your speed is at maximum. The plane tends to lift. But you can prevent this by pushing the elevator control forward sufficiently to allow for the increase in speed. Do your best. Push forward with all your might.
You have lived for 20 years or more. You must exert your full might for the last time in your life. Exert supernatural strength.
At the very moment of impact: do your best. Every deity and the spirits of your dead comrades are watching you intently. Just before the collision it is essential that you do not shut your eyes for a moment so as not to miss the target. Many have crashed into the targets with wide-open eyes. They will tell you what fun they had.
You are now 30m from the target
You will sense that your speed has suddenly and abruptly increased. You feel that the speed has increased by a few thousand-fold. It is like a long shot in a movie suddenly turning into a close-up, and the scene expands in your face.
The moment of the crash
You are two or three metres from the target. You can see clearly the muzzles of the enemy's guns. You feel that you are suddenly floating in the air. At that moment, you see your mother's face. She is not smiling or crying. It is her usual face.
All the happy memories
You won't precisely remember them but they are like a dream or a fantasy. You are relaxed and a smile creases your face. The sweet atmosphere of your boyhood days returns.
You view all that you experienced in your 20-odd years of life in rapid succession. But these things are not very clear.
In any event, only delightful memories come back to you. You cannot see your own face at that moment. But because of a succession of pleasant memories flashing through your mind, you feel that you smiled at the last moment. You may nod then, or wonder what happened. You may even hear a final sound like the breaking of crystal. Then you are no more.
Points to remember when making your last dive
Crashing bodily into a target is not easy. It causes the enemy great damage. Therefore the enemy will exert every means to avoid a hit.
Suddenly, you may become confused. You are liable to make an error. But hold on to the unshakeable conviction to the last moment that you will sink the enemy ship.
Remember when diving into the enemy to shout at the top of your lungs: "Hissatsu!" ("Sink without fail!") At that moment, all the cherry blossoms at Yasukuni shrine in Tokyo will smile brightly at you.
· Extracted from Kamikaze by Albert Axell. To be published this month by Pearson Education Ltd, price £19.99. http://www.history-minds.com.
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What a freaking bill of goods those kids were sold!:mad:
And to think they were advised about what they would be feeling just before impact! As if the criminal who wrote that drivel would know! Their lives were wasted by criminals who didn't have to pay the price they expected of those kids. A blasted shame IMO.
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"If you feel nervous, piss."
Damn good advice.
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The military commanders were filthy murderers.
Too bad only about 25% of them went through trial, and the rest 75% spared on the condition they help out with the occupying forces.
You aren't gonna believe what they did in their colonies. Pacific POW camps? Man, that's a Hilton compared to the colonial rule.
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Wasn't the suicide thing a voluntary mission?
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Seems to be a Bill of goods that is still being sold.... dieing for a national cause is not something the japanese are alone in ever doing...
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Originally posted by popeye
Wasn't the suicide thing a voluntary mission?
It was no more voluntary than was military service for Japaneese. The closest you came was being told you had the honor to volunteer. There was no way to unvolunteer or to refuse this "honor".
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They were proud men who died for their country and I respect them for that. It may seem they were victoms of propaganda but if your country was on the verge of defeat you would do ANYTHING to try and reverse the tide.
It seems very awkward to us but you must understand, the East is a different culture. They are a little more "Westernized now" but Japanese pilots had the "samurai" spirt in WW2, as a warrior of Japan they would view surrender as a disgrace and dying as an honor.
Japanese aren't the only ones who did this. Russians were taught ramming tactics and even used them on several occasions, a lot of proud VVS pilots died from a "taran" attack (what ramming attacks were).
I only hope there truly is a life after death for these men who died for their country, all the men who fought so bravely in WW2.
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What a freaking bill of goods those kids were sold!
Another demonstration that you cannot understand why someone behaves in a particular way without understanding the culture they belong to.
The Japanese see themselves as a "spiritual" people attuned to the way of the gods, to the true nature of reality, which gives them a moral force transcending the merely physical. When events were going badly for the Japanese in World War II, they spoke of "the spirit of Japan" that would prevail against America's industrial might.
The kamikaze pilots were seen as possessing great makoto. The usual English translation of makoto as "sincerity," "honesty," or "purity" does not capture the emotional complexity of this Japanese word. In the West, we assume that when one is "honest" or "sincere," he states fact as accurately as he can. We prize mental lucidity, "objectivity," and faithfulness to "reality." Ivan Morris in The Nobility of Failure: Tragic Heroes in the History of Japan writes: "Rejecting this grossly material world in which he finds himself, the man of makoto proceeds not by logical argument, pragmatic compromise, or a common-sense effort to attune himself to the 'movement of the times,' but by the force of his own true feelings. Instead of depending on careful, rational plans and adjustments, he is propelled by unquestioning spontaneity. This aspect of makoto is reflected in that eager, undaunted strain which is common to Pure Land Buddhism, Zen, Wang Yang-ming philosophy, and other approaches to life that have been prominent in the Japanese tradition. "Sincerity" in the words of a modern Western observer [Kurt Singer] 'spells readiness to discard everything that might hinder a man from acting wholeheartedly on the pure and unpredictable impulses that spring from the secret center of his being.' Selfless dedication or, in more accurate psychological terms, belief in one's own selflessness, is a further mark of the sincere man."
We see an example of makoto, "sincerity," in Heike Monogatari when the aging warrior Sanemori dyes his white hair black and goes into hopeless battle against a young and vigorous enemy.
The concepts of aware and makoto emphasize an intuitive, supra-rational grasp of an inner reality. The Japanese value highly a person's unyielding adherance to his subjective "truth." Ironically, Japanese culture also insists upon social conformity. Decisions should be made by compromises worked out within the group. "Individualism" and "doing your own thing" are not virtues. The floor of a traditional Japanese building is nailed down with wooden pegs that may work up over time. Schoolchildren know that the classic saying "the nail that pokes up must be hammered down" refers to the person who calls attention to himself rather than working within the group for the common good. Such an "egoist" must be corrected by his or her neighbors. A paradox of Japanese society is that it tends to hero-worship individualists in history and literature while demanding "selfless" committment to the group.
Of all the possible bad deaths none is more odious to the warrior than capture and execution by the enemy; for this means intolerable humiliation not only for himself but, far more damaging, for the reputation of his family both retroactively and in generations to come. The most cataclysmic defeat will not mar the reputation of a hero or his kinsmen. Far from it: in the mystique of Japanese heroism nothing succeeds like failure. But, however hopeless the hero's situation may have become, to be held captive even for a short time is an irremediable disaster. The honourable status of prisoner of war, which was established at an early stage in Western warfare and included special understandings about the custody of important captives, ransom, and the like, was never accepted in Japan. The soldier who allowed himself to be captured automatically lost his dignity as a warrior and could expect only the most brutal treatment: savage torture, a humiliating form of execution, mutilation of his corpse, and, worst of all, the epithet of toriko -- "prisoner".
A strong tradition in the West is that the hero gets the girl; he wins his goal, often living to enjoy the fruits of victory. To the Japanese, the hero who wins is a contradiction in terms: the hero--in history and in fiction--dies trying to achieve the impossible. At the outset of World War II, many Japanese military leaders realized that their country would deliver a highly successful attack against Pearl Harbor, but eventually would be defeated by the superior industrial capacity of the United States. This insight made the Pearl Harbor attack very enticing to the Japanese psyche. The psychology of makoto was operative in the Japanese soldiers, sailors, and airmen during World War II. Lieutenant Ryuji Nagatsuka, a kamikaze pilot, survived the war because weather prevented him from spotting the American task force that was his target. These were his thoughts before he took off on what he believed to be his last mission: "Do I really believe that suicide attacks are effective? Aren't they, in fact, a foolhardy enterprise for flyers like us without any escort planes or any armaments of our own? . . . Is it true that self-sacrifice is the only thing that gives meaning to death? To this question the warrior is obliged to reply 'yes,' while knowing full well that his suicide mission has no meaning.
During World War II, pilots of Japanese army kamikaze squadrons sang this song in which the cherry blossom image represents the beauty of self-sacrifice and the death that gives meaning to one's life:
Flowers of the same cherry-tree, you and I
Bloom in the courtyard of the same squadron.
Opening our petals on the same day,
So shall the day we fall be the same;
We are destined to scatter our sweet blossom
Bravely, and together, for our country.
This cherry blossom image was perpetuated in the MX7 'Okha' piloted bomb ('okha' means 'cherry blossom') and 'Kaiten' piloted torpedo, derived from the Type 93 'Long Lance' torpedo. About 4,000 Japanese airmen and submariners died in suicide missions in World War Two. But the Japanese saw these men as samurai warriors attacking the enemy with invincible cherry blossom boughs, the visible incarnation of "the spirit of Yamato."
I strongly recommend that you read Chrysanthemum and the Sword: Patterns of Japanese Culture by Ruth Benedict; without understanding giri, gimu, and on -- the first two of which are inadequately translated as 'duty', and the latter equally inadequately translated as 'debt' -- you cannot understand how being a kamikaze was the ultimate distillation of gimu chu and idealized out of all connection to reality.
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I saw an interview with a Kamikaze pilot who was shot down and lived.
He made the following points:
- It was technically voluntary, but there was so much pressure that nobody in his class could say no.
- Nobody in his class bought the line about "Dying gloriously for the Emperor" or any of the other BS. They were all scared and wanted to live badly. He claimed that those who instituted the policy were criminals, throwing away lives for a lost cause.
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Fly in circles over the airfield. Observe conditions of the airstrip carefully. If you feel nervous, piss.
And that is just returning to base! ;)
I hate it when I piss on landing, it always makes the rudder pedals slippery.
Kuben
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Soviet, there's no difference that they were human, and humans basically want to live. The "Eastern" culture finds different ways to same problems, that's all.
True they may have been brave men, but the Kamikaze was basically a desperate move sane people - West and East alike - would never make. That's what totalitarianism does to people. Make them do insane things in the name of "honor" "bravery" and "patriotism".
A tragic, misguided bravery if you ask me. Even Neo-NAZI scumbags who terrorize people are in their own sense, somewhat "brave".
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As Karnak said, basically, all that 'spiritualness' 'divineness' and 'devotion for the emperor' is pure load of bullshi*. That's what the guys in power wanted people to believe. Humans, your average joe, are all the same. The concept of "Orient", IMO, is too much mystified. They didn't go and kill themselves because the Japanese "culture" was like that. Somebody just made them do it.
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Good post Shiva
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It was technically voluntary, but there was so much pressure that nobody in his class could say no.
Playing heavily on each individual's gimu to the Emperor, their giri to their parents, and their giri to their name, plus the social pressure exerted from being the nail sticking up that needs to get hammered down.
Nobody in his class bought the line about "Dying gloriously for the Emperor" or any of the other BS. They were all scared and wanted to live badly. He claimed that those who instituted the policy were criminals, throwing away lives for a lost cause.
And, of course, the people who resisted buying into the image that the military built around the kamikaze are the ones who survive to decry their actions; the ones who believed, who accepted their portrayal as Yamato warriors, throwing themselves bodily against the enemy to defend their homeland, were the ones who went out and died first. But the people who created the myths were as tightly bound as the people who carried out the tokko attacks -- remember that Japan is a 'shame' culture; once the shimpu had been created and deployed, to cease them was to admit failure, that the Yamato spirit was not enough to win over American arms. They had mounted the tiger and had to ride it out, and it dragged thousands of people down with it. Yonaga Hyoe, Group Commanding Officer of the 100th Wing, 6th Air Force, was sacked from his position for refusing to release half his squadron to the tokkotai, because it would gut his squadron's combat effectiveness. He speaks of his feelings on the matter:
"I objected. Kamikaze pilots were trained mainly at Akeno Flying School. Those pilots who actually flew kamikaze missions, they were innocent and pure. They were brave. Particularly those who were trained in the Akeno center and had an adequate training period. Their case was different from those who were suddenly ordered to fly kamikaze missions like a day before the attack.
"But as for my own group, I couldn't accept such an order from the center to deliver fighters for kamikaze missions only because there were not enough left in the center.
"If I had let that happen, the 100th Wing would have lost its military capability immediately. Our wing would be useless. If this wing was broken down bit by bit for kamikaze missions, what would be the point of having trained this wing, organized the wing, and taken the pain of transporting the wing? Why waste our efforts?"
However, when speaking of the American attack on the Japanese homeland, he displays his own personal loyalty to the Empire:
"If headquarters had ordered me to fly kamikaze missions when the U.S. forces attacked Japan, I, as a group commander, would have fought as a kamikaze pilot. That was my attitude."
As Karnak said, basically, all that 'spiritualness' 'divineness' and 'devotion for the emperor' is pure load of bullshi*. That's what the guys in power wanted people to believe. Humans, your average joe, are all the same. The concept of "Orient", IMO, is too much mystified. They didn't go and kill themselves because the Japanese "culture" was like that. Somebody just made them do it.
It is incredibly easier to get people to do something if the culture conditions people to believe things that support what you are trying to get them to do. Most of the trappings and traditions of the samurai class had disappeared from day-to-day life by the time that Japan started rearming prior to WWII; the military leadership deliberately reconstituted the ideals of the samurai -- insofar as the parts of it that supported their goals were concerned -- in the military, creating a subculture that declared them to be the modern samurai, dropping all of the strictures of behaviour (where it supported order, discipline, and obedience) of the samurai onto the soldiers. Once they had done this, however, they were as bound by them as were the soldiers. By wrapping the use of tokko weapons in the myth structure that the military had inculcated into the soldiers, what they saw was that shutting down the programs and admitting that it was ineffective would gut the belief structure that they'd created and destroy the effectiveness of the military. So they continued to throw men and resources into ever more desperate measures as American production forced them into a corner that the tokkotai, despite all the cultural imperatives they could lay behind it, was unable to rescue them from.
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Very interesting read !
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No I would say the cuture was like that. The Samurai code as (cough) brutal and disciplined of a warrior it makes, it was obsolete by the time world war II arrived. It may have had a larger preemptive purpose in controlling the ordinary peasant and peoples in feudal Japan for the warlords but had a lesser importance and affect during world war II. When your zero has taken hits and you just bailed out at 12,000 feet, you have alot of time in the world to change your mind about Bushido on your way down. Specially if your arm is on fire or something. That kind of discipline is endoctrinated into you as a child. Japan was still caught in its traditional systems and more modern systems.
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qoute----
--. And to think they were advised about what they would be feeling just before impact! As if the criminal who wrote that drivel would know! Their lives were wasted by criminals who didn't have to pay the price they expected of those kids. A blasted shame IMO.--
unqoute
I know a lot of religious freaks, I mean christians, that dont have any qualms about a dusty old book or a creepy old man or woman at a pulpit telling them what they will experience when they die....
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what can i say..all that samurai stuff is BS, you fight to win ,not to die.
Gen Patton said it right " i don't want you to die for your country, i want that other SOB to die for his country"
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Few years ago I found a book "The Divine Wind" from Inoguchi, Nakajima and Pineau.
That book was really sad reading but it did gave an another view to the issue.
Really good eye-opener and you can order it from here (33$): http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/ww2_pg4.htm
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You inadvertently left part of this paragraph out, but I've included the part you missed, for the sake of histerical accuracy.
Take a walk around the airfield
When you take this walk, be aware of your surroundings. This airstrip is the key to the success or failure of your mission. Devote all your attention to it. Look at the terrain. What are the characteristics of the ground? How many sheep do you see? Are they good sheep, untarnished by bish and knit abuse? What are the length and width of the airstrip? In case you will take off at dusk, or early morning, or after sundown, what are the obstacles to be remembered: an electric pole, a tree, a house, a hill?
I can't find any other omissions.
:)
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My wife and I went to Japan in 1997. We loved the country and the people. However, we went to the Imperial War museum in Tokyo towards the end of our visit. . We found in this place that the Government still thinks the most honorable way to die is to commit suicide and they have no regret over ww2, (at least in this place) . It still makes me sick and as a result I have lost much respect for their Government and many of their people.
Anyone who condones suicide is a bloody idiot and a complete coward. It is the most Unhonorable way to die.
ATC
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If indeed there is a 'culture' involved with this, it is a universal "culture of war", rather than a Japanese "culture of the samurai".
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How less or more 'brutal' is the mentality of carpeting bombing cities and innocent civilians compared to the seemingly incomprehensable Kamikaze attacks? The mentality of using weapons of mass destruction on cities, a devasting bomb which has never been seen before, is something which can be understood as 'circumstances of war' yet the Kamikaze attacks are 'culturaly inspired'?
Nobody in their sane mind claims the atrocious tactics of massive civilian destruction is derived from "Western culture" itself. People do not associate the horrors of the Holocaust to "Germanic culture", nor do they associate the Dresden bombings to "British culture". They associate it with the universal madness called "WAR". If someone attempts to associate Nazism with the "German tendency of discipline" he'd be probably laughed at. Fascism was a tendency in every western country during the years of 1919 and 1945, and yet, we don't say "that's from the Western culture".
The seemingly shocking idea behind the "divine wind", if compared in the levels of death and destruction, is actually much less than the massive bombing campaigns of England or USA... and yet, somehow, when a tactic that was born out of desperation is carried out by a country far in the East, which was previously known as a barbaric, and then puts up one hell of a fight against the mightest of the Allied forces, then people feel tempted to associate it with culture. Something that would not be seen in a "normal war"(or rather, "normal people carrying out the war") Ah yes, the ever mysterious "Japanese".
The reasoning behind the "cultural aspect of the kamikaze" is the mystification of atrocious war-time acts. By doing so, one can dissociate their own acts of war and destruction from the acts done by the losing side.
In this manner, one can effectively claim their own acts were in accord to a "strategical and tactical sense"(a concept which bears a notion in regards to "familiarity" of war-time acts - a seemingly 'civilized' behavior), and the acts done by "the other", were unecessary(incomprehensible, barbaric, cruel and very guilty).
A good example is how none of the leaders who won the war was put on trial or was punished. Are those who gave out orders to kill people in massive numbers less guilty than Tojo Hideki or Adolph Hitler? Brutality, emphasis on discipline and unquestioning subordination, a fetish towards the concept of honorable death - this is something within every military, not just the code of the Samurai. Young Japanese pilots were ordered, tempted, pursuaded to kill themselves for their country. Young western pilots were ordered, tempted and pursuaded to kill others for their country. What's the difference?
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A certain act of murder and destruction is not questioned when it is carried out in a "familiar" manner, and yet, when it is carried out in a form which they have not seen before, it is in question. It is branded as "culture".
But in essence, the mentality of killing oneself for a militaristic purpose is pretty much the same as the mentality of killing others(in accord to the "rules of engagement") for the same purpose.
It is true the "rituals" and "formalities" that shaped up the image of the kamikaze warrior is heavily influenced by Japanese culture. But the overall process of devising an elaborate ideologyand imagery to support the war, to support the ruling class, and make people wildly fanatical, is the same in every country.
Spiritualness, divineness, and the devotion to the emperor as the samurai, is effectively as same as "Protestantism, capitalism, and the devotion to the Republic as a citizen". One took on a pseudo-feudalistic imagel, the other took a more "modernized" version.
Kamikaze is a vivid shock in the "image", yet essentialy the same kind of 'reasoning behind the war' as any other Western country had. To me, the reasoning behind dropping of A-bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima is at least 10 times more shocking then the reasoning behind the kamikaze.
There is the Government which still thinks the most honorable way to die is to commit suicide and they have no regret over ww2, and then there is the Government which still thinks the A-bombings were strategicaly necessary, and has no regret over ww2. Both make me sick.
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There is the Government which still thinks the most honorable way to die is to commit suicide and they have no regret over ww2, and then there is the Government which still thinks the A-bombings were strategicaly necessary, and has no regret over ww2. Both make me sick.
This entire reply is total bulls---. I have pity for you and your sole. unbelieveable indeed.
ATC
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Anyone who condones suicide is a bloody idiot and a complete coward. It is the most Unhonorable way to die.
So, ATC, in the stereotypical situation where you and your wife are in an aircraft going down, and the two of you only have one parachute, you'd grab it yourself and jump, leaving your wife to die, because to give her the chute would be the same as committing suicide?
In the Bible, John 15:13, it says "Greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for a friend." Over and over, ourage and dedication and devotion to honor and duty have been recognized by countries all over the world -- recognition of people doing something that they know will get them killed, but which they do anyway because it needs to be done.
On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time, Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
That quotation is taken from the Medal of Honor citation for Pvt. Rodger W. Young. He could have attempted to disengage with his platoon; he had been wounded, and no one would have thought less of him for it. He chose to advance alone into enemy fire, in all likelihood knowing after he was wounded the second time that there was no way he was going to make it back from the hill. But he continued on, and carried out the task he had set for himself, even though it meant his death.
Go read the citations for MoH recipients, particularly the posthumous awards. You will find that a large proportion of them are for actions taken where the recipient knew that they were not going to survive their action, and chose not to remove themselves or be removed to safety.
. . . During the early stages of this attack, Sgt. Baker was seriously wounded but he insisted on remaining in the line and fired at the enemy at ranges sometimes as close as 5 yards until his ammunition ran out. Without ammunition and with his own weapon battered to uselessness from hand-to-hand combat, he was carried about 50 yards to the rear by a comrade, who was then himself wounded. At this point Sgt. Baker refused to be moved any farther stating that he preferred to be left to die rather than risk the lives of any more of his friends. A short time later, at his request, he was placed in a sitting position against a small tree . Another comrade, withdrawing, offered assistance. Sgt. Baker refused, insisting that he be left alone and be given a soldier's pistol with its remaining 8 rounds of ammunition. When last seen alive, Sgt. Baker was propped against a tree, pistol in hand, calmly facing the foe. Later Sgt. Baker's body was found in the same position, gun empty, with 8 Japanese lying dead before him. His deeds were in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Army.
From the Medal of Honor citation for Sgt Thomas A. Baker, killed during the battle for Saipan. Do you think he didn't know that he was going to die, that staying behind was a death sentence for him? Yet, like Rodger Young and the other 264 posthumous recipients of the Medal of Honor, his 'suicide' was recognized by our country with its highest military honor.
Somehow, it's okay for someone to decide, in the heat of battle, that they are going to die, but that they're going to make their death worth something, and become a hero, but it's not okay for someone to undertake to make a massive strike against the enemy, knowing that they're going to die making it.
And as you think about that, ATC, consider the Western belief in confession and absolution. A man who committed dozens of rapes and murders across years, torturing his victims brutally to death, confesses his sins on his deathbed, is granted absolution, and goes straight to heaven, while a law-abiding man who is driving to church for his weekly confession hits a patch of ice or water, skids out of control, hits a freeway pillar, and is killed instantly goes to hell because he died unshriven and unconfessed.
We found in this place that the Government still thinks the most honorable way to die is to commit suicide and they have no regret over ww2, (at least in this place) . It still makes me sick and as a result I have lost much respect for their Government and many of their people.
And Japanese businessmen, watching the implosion of Enron, Arthur Andersen, and Worldcom, have lost much respect for American businessmen.
All you proved was that you don't understand their culture, or you would understand why suicide is an honorable death in Japanese culture.
Western cultures are, almost invariably, guilt cultures. They create an arbitrary standard of ethics and morals, and inculcate each member of that culture with a conscience to hold their behavior up against that standard, and it is this internal knowledge of your transgression against this standard that creates guilt, even when no one else knows of the transgression. The many rituals of confession and expiation in guilt cultures exist to take internalized and private guilt and unburden oneself to others.
Eastern cultures, on the other hand, are almost universally shame cultures. In a shame culture, the guidance is imposed from without, from the other members of the culture. A person seeks to avoid doing something that will cause others to criticize or reproach them. This extends to continuing to do something that is wrong in context or inappropriate simply because to stop would be admitting that you made a mistake originally -- that you did not think through the consequences of your action beforehand.
In Japanese culture, suicide can be many things. It can be the ultimate apology; it can be a condemnation; it can be an assumption of responsibility. But what drove the tokkotaijin -- at least, insofare as they were portrayed to each other and to the public, was as the ultimate expression of the Yamato warrior, throwing themselves into battle "as if they were already dead", spending their deaths to strike boldly and massively against the enemy. The only difference between what they did and what men like Rodger Young and Thomas Baker did is that they planned to go out and die taking a bunch of the enemy with them.
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I'll have to remember that.
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Hopefully most of our future enemies will want to die for thier cause... The more dead the better and I'd be more than willing to help them along.
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How can you ever compare this to the kamikaze attacks. It's a completely different subject alltogether
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Well, I'm not sure about where you live, but fascism is dead where I live, and has always been. Put aside the political groups that pushed it and socialism in those times in my country. It never came to popularity.
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Good links; Shive; interesting reading.
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Truly excellent topic, information and discussion. Never would have believed to read something so deep on a discussion forum.
Now my 2 cents (I will read the whole thread thoroughly at home):
Culture is as it may be but consider this:
I saw a program about Japanese and American veterans, on some sort of oceanic misson to track wrecks of aircraft carriers sunk in WWII. I believe Mr. Ballard of Titanic fame was involved.
I saw old men cry and mourn the loss of their young friends almost 60 years ago. At this point in their lives, all the cultural and political issues seemed EXTREMELY trivial. They had infinitively more in common with their former enemies than us whiners on this message board ever will.
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laz how bout hoover at the fbi? THat was about as close to facism as we will hopefully get. Unless you count the patriot act. DId you know they can now interrogate librarians to find out what books you have been checking out? And that it is illegal for the librarian to alert her boss, the police, or the congress that they are doing it? ick.
Shiva great post.
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Well, I'm not sure about where you live, but fascism is dead where I live, and has always been. Put aside the political groups that pushed it and socialism in those times in my country. It never came to popularity.
That's an interesting statement to make, Lazerus, given that your account information gives your location as Charleston, S.C.; perhaps you haven't paid attention to what's been going on in the US recently. Where a simple declaration by the government that someone is an 'enemy combatant' strips them of any rights they have as a US citizen... Where the government is recruiting citizens into a program (TIPS) to inform on suspicious activity by other citizens... The Geschäftsstelle der Heimatsicherheitsdienst -- sorry, 'Office of Homeland Security' -- for whose creation legislation was introduced in Congress back in March of 2001, not as a response to 9/11, as is popularly claimed... The PATRIOT act, which gives the government the right to serve a wiretap order on anyone, regardless of whether that person is named in the wiretap order, and can move that wiretap from phone to phone, computer to computer, without demonstrating that each is even being used by a suspect or target of an order; which gives civilian agencies to bring in military forces for "technical assistance" in numerous cases, in contravention to the Posse Comitatus Act; which amends the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), to allow it to get and serve secret search warrants to anybody, demanding information on anything, on the certification that, in the opinion of an FBI agent, it has something, anything, to do with "terrorism" or espionage.
As part of the 'war on terrorism, Ashcroft & Co. have indited an attorney defending an muslim clergyman, on the grounds that answering questions from the press constituted communicating terrorist information (and virtually guaranteeing that the next hundred defendants, foreign or domestic, accused to terrorism or other anti-government activities will be unable to secure competent defense counsel). They have demanded the "right" to bug all communications between (certain) defendants and their attorneys. They have broken into offices and searched them, with no notice, under "secret" warrants.
(http://www.kiva.net/~kvc/HomSec/trust5web.jpg)
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There is the Government which still thinks the most honorable way to die is to commit suicide and they have no regret over ww2, and then there is the Government which still thinks the A-bombings were strategicaly necessary, and has no regret over ww2. Both make me sick.
Even more sickening would be to allow thousands of your own countrymen to die in an attack that could be avoided through the use of a weapon such as the A-bomb. Especially if that enemy dragged you into an unwanted war by attacking you without warning. If the use of that weapon makes my country the bad guy then I can accept that. But I would suggest to you that the only way to win a war is to be the baddest of the bad guys. To kill more of them then they kill of you. And I belive that you do that with every means possible to end it as soon as possible.
This garbage about the evil USA unleashing the nuclear threat into the world is nothing more then a load of crap. Either side would have used it, the US was just the first ones to get the formula right and thank god for that!! Do you for one minute think that a Japanese or Nazi regime would have pumped millions of dollars into a conquored country so that they could rebuild and govern themselves as they see fit? If you do ask the French, Dutch, Ukrainians, Philippines etc... how the axis powers helped them after taking control.
So in short take your bulls&*%*t hand ringing somewhere else. The lesson to be learned here is not that the USA is evil for using such a weapon. The lesson is that war is evil and should be avoided at all cost.
My two cents worth,
Avid
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....and this rapidly degenerates into the pseudo intellectual political BS that should be in OT if anywhere
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>>dieing for a national cause is not something the japanese are alone in ever doing...<<
No they are not alone, especially nowadays. However, dieing for a cause is, IMO, a bit different than commiting suicide. The "bill of goods" being the promise of all this great stuff they can expect "on the other side" is what rubs me as wrong.
Gen. George Patton was quoted as saying to some troops... "let the other bastard die for his country"
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>>The kamikaze pilots were seen as possessing great makoto. The usual English translation of makoto as "sincerity," "honesty," or "purity" does not capture the emotional complexity of this Japanese word. In the West, we assume that when one is "honest" or "sincere," he states fact as accurately as he can. We prize mental lucidity, "objectivity," and faithfulness to "reality." Ivan Morris in The Nobility of Failure: Tragic Heroes in the History of Japan writes: "Rejecting this grossly material world in which he finds himself, the man of makoto proceeds not by logical argument, pragmatic compromise, or a common-sense effort to attune himself to the 'movement of the times,' but by the force of his own true feelings.<<
Hmmm all pretty heady stuff, and it is clear that you are well read but...just because it is written in a book somewhere, doesn't make it real, right, or in any way accurate to describe what is in a young man's heart and mind as he prepares to meet his maker in some pursuit. Perhaps in an attempt to understand the inexplicable, a person will look to lofty and superior reasons to explain something so completely against the human desire to live; that biological imperative to see another sunrise. As a westerner, or easterner or Eskimo, I don't think it is a logical part of any human beings existence to long for death and to cut short one's life to get there.
Bushido? Mukato? Hehe, all part of one big, juicy rationalization for a leadership who led their nation into a fiery hell, and didnt have the good graces or human decency to admit they screwed the pooch. They "altered" religion to create a different conciousness among their people; one that acculturated them to war. They indoctrinated their society to have them believe that suicide was glorious, and life intolerable if they chose to live and let live; this was a concious act on the part of the Japanese military leadership. A leadership that chose to ignore the rules of the geneva convention yet, wanted at the same time to become players on the world stage and develop spheres of influence throughout the pacific. Why? For resources they didnt have. And what ocurred in Japanese society at that time was not the first time in history that this phenomenon was used. In short, it was all about the Benjamins baby.
Thanks for the advice on reading materials but...I think I'll pass;)
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Lazerus and Avid:
It is interesting to see that you think "carpet bombing" and "kamikaze" is incomparable. Why is it different? Is there any reason why they should NOT be compared?
* Both were war-time acts of destruction against people/property defined as "enemies".
* Both participants were prepared to give their lives(for one side, death was a risk, for the other, death was a prerequisite).
* Both rarely questioned the "meaning of it all" in open(" you don't have time to think what's wrong or right in war").
* Both believed they were serving a higher purpose.
...
And yet, at least the kamikaze pilots were soldiers took a 'voluntary form', with their attacks limited to direct and immediate threats - military targets. Carpet bombings on cities and A-bombs, on the other hand, targeted mostly innocent civilians and killed vastly more people than the kamikaze attacks and their victims all put together. Their purpose? "To crumble the fighting resolve" - a vague, immaterial concept that people figured the Japanese had.
So then, who's "ethics" and "cultures" on war are more twisted?
When people's lives drop like the 'cherryblossom'... as they sacrifice themselves to stop enemies from attacking their homeland ... it is consdiered horrible and incomprehensible, sick, and barbaric.. it's a backward feudalistic mentality which derived from the brutal and militaristic "Japanese culture" of the "Bushido" - death and honor, the way of the warrior.
And yet, when other people decide to go drop an A-bomb on a city and sacrifice many thousands of civilians it is a "strategic decision"?
What if I said to the Americans "ah.. the decision to level Hiroshima and Nagasaki... that's the typical American.. always thinking of new things, trying to achieve something in the 'spirit of frontier'.. reckless and cruel as much as they were to the indians.. a misguided passion for challenge and conquest.. always wanting to make a big show out of things... the "cowboy".... that's American Culture.. no wonder they atomized Hiroshima. They had it in their veins".. would any Americans agree?
No, of course, not. Why should they agree?
The Americans will feel I have overly complex and imaginitive notions of "spirit of the frontier". That I've seen too many mumbo-jumbo on TV, and translate matters as if it was something from a wild-actioned Hollywood movie. They will feel my notions on American culture is unjust, and I am bringing up irrelevant issues in an unscientific, prejudiced manner biased towards Americans.
...
That is EXACTLY what is happening when people try to find cultural, mystic, shamanistic, shintoistic, whatever-that-has-to-do-with-Japan-istic reasons behind the kamikaze.
"American culture" did not create the A-bomb. War did.
and just as much,
"Japanese culture" did not create the kamikaze.
"The culture of the kamikaze" - That's only what the self-righteous military fascists of the Tojo regime wanted their people to believe. The grand picture they had in mind.. the unquestioning, brave, heroic warrior of the gods. The warriors who serve the Emperor, rightful heir of Amaterasu the Sun-god. With each death, blessings and honor to their souls.
No doubt, some of the poor, unwitting young people who were brave and patriotic wanted to picture their deaths in that way. That they did not die in vain, they meant something to their country.. which is, of course, all lies.
In truth, it was nothing but an insane, desperate act of futility ANY war would bring to ANY nation, differing just in the form and image.
....
"The culture of the kamikaze", is also what the western decision-makers who wanted to justify their positions as "guys who saved lives and brought peace", despite their own hideous crimes of destruction, wanted their own people to believe - that they were different, they were humanistic, they were civilized, and they were just.
"We" are more "just" than those "other guys". That's why "we" won... because "we" were more "just" than "them".
Thus, the elaborate hoax of "THE OTHERS" is set in motion. Rationalization, justification, and the process of cover-up.
After the war, as we all know, the Soviets became the new "OTHERS" , and the cold war begins.
.....
In order to justify one's own horrific acts, people have created an illusion of an even more horrific act, the act of the "others" - the mysterious, irrational, and incomprehensible.
....
ps)
Avid, basically, it's like this:
"What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong"
If you think the US was right, then you have to think kamikaze's are also right. If you think the kamikaze's were wrong, you have to think the US was also wrong.
...
Other than this, it is just a load of hypocrite bullshi*. I mean, hey, what's so complicated here?
"Tho shall not kill" - woops, I killed, you killed.. we're both evil men. Simple, isn't it?
I mean, why do people have to make such complex rules and conditions, situations, special scenarios to prove "I can kill people, a looooot of people, and still I'm not evil, I'm good. I kill people because I want to save people"??
If really wanting to save people, hey, how about not going into war in the first place?
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"that biological imperative to see another sunrise. As a westerner, or easterner or Eskimo, I don't think it is a logical part of any human beings existence to long for death and to cut short one's life to get there"
How would you explain Christian martyrs?
How do you explain the Jeremy Irons charecter in "the mission"?
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Bushido? Mukato? Hehe, all part of one big, juicy rationalization for a leadership who led their nation into a fiery hell, and didnt have the good graces or human decency to admit they screwed the pooch.
And what you miss is that 'good graces' and 'human decency' are Western value and moral judgements, not Japanese ones. You are condemning them for failure to adhere to codes of conduct alien to their culture.
They "altered" religion to create a different conciousness among their people; one that acculturated them to war. They indoctrinated their society to have them believe that suicide was glorious, and life intolerable if they chose to live and let live; this was a concious act on the part of the Japanese military leadership.
They didn't 'alter' any religion; they took their existing cultural traditions and cultivated the belief that the soldier was the modern-day samurai -- and thereby wrapped the military in all of the traditions and values from the 'golden age' of Japanese history. And for most military personnel, it was a step up; the vast majority of the military came from the merchant, peasant, and worker classes, and telling them that they were modern samurai was a vast social promotion -- in the past, lower-class families would be eager to marry their daughters to samurai family, so their children could be samura, but now you could become samurai yourself just by joining the military. It was a powerful social incentive; one that played heavily on the traditions that the Japanese had been raised on.
A leadership that chose to ignore the rules of the geneva convention
Japan was not signatory to the Hague Treaty regarding the treatment of POWs. The only violation of the Geneva Protocol that the Japanese committed during WWII was the use of biological and chemical weapons. The Third Geneva Convention, which laid out the standards for the treatment of prisoners of war and civilians during wartime, was held in 1949, four years after the end of WWII.
Consider that the French used some 49,000 German POWs to clear mines throughout Europe and Russia from 1945-1946, forcing the prisoners to walk through the area they'd cleared to prove that the area was safe. Between 8% and 17.5% of the POWs forced into mine-clearing were killed as a result of these actions. From 1935-1936, Italian forces sprayed mustard gas from aircraft against Ethiopian troops. Violations of the Geneva Protocol and inhumane treatment of prisoners was not confined to Japan.
And the Japanese treatment of prisoners was no better or worse than what the Japanese expected for themselves as prisoners, or than they treated Japanese prisoners. The Japanese tradition was that being captured -- to become toriko, 'prisoner' -- was a disgrace not only to themselves, but to their family. Japanese POW guards were mystified at Allied POW's interest in contacting their families to let them know they were captured but alive -- to want to communicate the shame of their capture to their families was alien to them. Similarly, Allied POW guards found it difficult to accept how easily Japanese POWs would profess their willingness to work for their captors, and would work faithfully; because they considered themselves dead to their family, and had a need to feel that they were useful.
yet, wanted at the same time to become players on the world stage and develop spheres of influence throughout the pacific. Why? For resources they didnt have.
And which the US had threatened to cut off, in an ultimatum which gave no way for the Japanese to back out of their actions in a manner which would let them save face.
Some American policy-makers had long disliked Japan partly because of racism, partly because of economic rivalry. Like today, some were disturbed by the presence of Japanese products on American shelves. And although the U.S.-Japanese trade was much larger than the U.S.-Chinese trade, many people thought that someday China would provide a huge market for American manufacturers, if Japan didn't get there first. Thus, when Japan began hostilities against China in the 1930s, there was concern.
As early as 1938, Roosevelt quietly explored with the British the possibility of war with Japan. Japanese overtures, including an offer in 1940 to leave China and the Axis Pact, were rebuffed. In July 1940, Roosevelt began his program of economic warfare by embargoing strategic goods. In September, he prohibited exports of iron and scrap steel to Japan. In June 1941, he restricted oil shipments. About a month later, Roosevelt froze Japan's funds in the United States. This was followed by a warning that a continuation of Japan's expansionist policies would compel the U.S. to protect its security. Roosevelt also refused to meet with Japanese Prime Minister Konoye. Soon afterwards, the Japanese government fell and General Tojo became prime minister.
During negotiations with Japan, Secretary of State Cordell Hull demanded that Japan withdraw from China and Indochina, leave other countries alone (including the sacrosanct colonies which the U.S., Britain, and Holland had bagged though their previous imperialistic campaigns), and scrap the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity sphere. Japan offered concessions, but the American response suggested to the Japanese that the U.S. wanted no agreement. Caught in an economic vise, the Japanese began to speak of war if no settlement were reached by November. The American officials were aware of this, thanks to the breaking of the Japanese codes and the interception of diplomatic messages.
On November 20, Japan made an offer that included restoration of peace between it and China and withdrawal of troops from Indochina in return for commercial normalization. (Meanwhile, Japanese forces were moving toward American, British, and Dutch colonies, just in case the offer was refused.) Hull called the offer "utterly unacceptable." Although the U.S. military wanted additional time to prepare, and Roosevelt initially wanted a six-month delay, Hull issued an ultimatum on November 26 demanding total Japanese withdrawal from China and Indochina. Recognizing that compliance would humiliate the Japanese, Hull knew that the ultimatum would not be accepted. And Hull was right — the Japanese government refused to accept the ultimatum. The next day Hull told Secretary of War Stimson, "It is now in the hands of you and [Naval Secretary] Knox — the Army and Navy."
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"Japan was not signatory to the Hague Treaty regarding the treatment of POWs. The only violation of the Geneva Protocol that the Japanese committed during WWII was the use of biological and chemical weapons. The Third Geneva Convention, which laid out the standards for the treatment of prisoners of war and civilians during wartime, was held in 1949, four years after the end of WWII."
I find this interesting, but somehow are you saying that the barbaric treatment of allied POWs by the Japanese was somehow justified since it did not break international treaties at the time? In addition, prior to WW2 the Japanese had earned a reputation of treating POWs (The example I am thinking of orginates from the Russo-Japanese war of 1905) very well. So well in fact that the Japanese had earned praise from around the world. So certainly at one point Japanese Culture did allow a difference in treatment of POWs.
"Consider that the French used some 49,000 German POWs to clear mines throughout Europe and Russia from 1945-1946, forcing the prisoners to walk through the area they'd cleared to prove that the area was safe. Between 8% and 17.5% of the POWs forced into mine-clearing were killed as a result of these actions. From 1935-1936, Italian forces sprayed mustard gas from aircraft against Ethiopian troops. Violations of the Geneva Protocol and inhumane treatment of prisoners was not confined to Japan."
I do not have the means of verifying these assertations. However, I do find it difficult to excuse an atrocity "Because everybody does it" I feel the bombing raids on Dresden and Hamburg along with the firebombings of Tokyo were astonishing acts of inhumanity. It is fortunate that the Allies won that war and never had to explain these acts in a court of law. However, the Japanese did lose the war and they did have to answer for a number of human rights abuses. History is written by the victors.
"Some American policy-makers had long disliked Japan partly because of racism, partly because of economic rivalry."
What is not mentioed here is that the Japanese felt the same way toward the US. I do not know why it is hard to understand that other countries are racist besides just the US. Surely you do not believe that racism did not exist in Japan at the time or does not exist today in modern Japan? Racism is an affliction that enlightenment will eventually overcome, but please do not place the blame completely on the US. As far as econmic rivalvry goes there was no problem with Japan UNTIL the China issue boiled over.
"And although the U.S.-Japanese trade was much larger than the U.S.-Chinese trade, many people thought that someday China would provide a huge market for American manufacturers, if Japan didn't get there first. Thus, when Japan began hostilities against China in the 1930s, there was concern."
I guess that is one way to spin it. That the concern was that the Japanese were cornering the market in China. Actually, the Japanese were engaged on a BRUTAL war of conquest in China. America had long had a romantic regard toward China and had sent a great many missionaires over in the years prior. Thus, when Japan attacked China and seized areas bordering Manchuria a great deal of American sympathy was raised for China. I doubt strongly if it was just an economic issue considering that Japan was several times the trading partner for the US at the time that China was.
"As early as 1938, Roosevelt quietly explored with the British the possibility of war with Japan. Japanese overtures, including an offer in 1940 to leave China and the Axis Pact, were rebuffed. In July 1940, Roosevelt began his program of economic warfare by embargoing strategic goods. In September, he prohibited exports of iron and scrap steel to Japan. In June 1941, he restricted oil shipments. About a month later, Roosevelt froze Japan's funds in the United States. This was followed by a warning that a continuation of Japan's expansionist policies would compel the U.S. to protect its security. Roosevelt also refused to meet with Japanese Prime Minister Konoye. Soon afterwards, the Japanese government fell and General Tojo became prime minister. "
Wow you are pretty good at this. I guess that I could point out that Roosevelt's actions were NOT performed in a vacum. Each action was made as an increasing ECONOMIC (Note that no real military action was taken against the Japanese prior to 1941 by the US) pressure on Japan to stop its war on China. The atrocity in Nanking by the Japanese (I believe in 1937) was a major factor in this. It has been estimated that over a 100,000 Chinese civilians were killed by the Japanese military. This shocked the entire world at the time including the German embassy staff in Nanking. Why did you, why do you continually leave out information like that? It puts the American actions IN CONTEXT. Also note that at any point in time up until 1941 the Japanese Govt could have changed course, but THEY CHOSE NOT TO HEED AMERICAN WARNINGS or economic pressure. Thus, the Japanese set the course for war while refusing to heed gradual American economic pressure. Pressure that only grew as the American frustration over the Japanese aggression grew. The pressure grew so tight that Japan literally backed itself in a corner.
The only way out for the Japanese was to gain economic independence from America. The way to do this was to seize the oil fields in Indonesia and the mineral resources of Southeast Asia. This meant war with the Dutch and British and possibly the Americans. The important issue here is whether or not America would have gone to war to defend European colonies in Aisa. The Japanese simply assumed the US would. Thus, Japan launched a war on its largest trading partner in order to continue a dubious campaign of conquest in China. It boggles the mind!
Another issue worth noting is that the civilian government running Japan at this time had very little real power. The real power belonged to the military. It is not like the US actions casued the civilian government to fall and opened the way for the Japanese to be ruled by the military and THAT led to war. The military already held the real power in Japan which is why Japan could not let go of the China "adventure." The military was well beyond the control of the Japanese civilian government by the 1930's.
"On November 20, Japan made an offer that included restoration of peace between it and China and withdrawal of troops from Indochina in return for commercial normalization. (Meanwhile, Japanese forces were moving toward American, British, and Dutch colonies, just in case the offer was refused.) Hull called the offer "utterly unacceptable." '
By this time Washington was convinced there would be war no matter what. The interception of Japanese diplomatic cables that late summer had already set war in motion. Washington came to believe war with Japan was inevitable and it developed a "war is coming mindset." This was unknown to the Japanese who had not made the final decision to go to war and were unaware of the American interception. The cable that the Americans had intercepted was describing just one avenue the Japanese could take, not the ONLY one. In a way, it is tragic that the situation reached an impasse then passed the final point of no return largely by a misunderstanding.
As a final note, keep this in mind : Roosevelt did not want a war with Japan at the time. He wanted a war with Hitler whom he felt was the greater threat to the West. It is highly doubtful that he purposely baited the Japanese in a game of "chicken" that led to the Pacific war. Hitler was foremost in his mind and his number one priority. Why would Roosevelt provoke the Japanese into a war that would distract from American interests in Europe?
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S!
What are the two major differences between the rulers of Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany and the Western Allies?
The Rulers of the two Axis nations believed they and their people were inherently superior to other humans, and that gave them the right to enslave outsiders and to kill them as easily as dogs.
That is the essence of National Socialist philosophy, as well as being fundamental to the Nationalist beliefs engendered by the Militarist rulers of Japan.
The other aspect of these societies which is rigidly distinct from Western Democracies is the idea that the individual is unimportant, and that government has a right to demand the sacrifice of any number of its citizens in whatever cause it deems nessesary.
Through the course of several centuries, the Militarist rulers of Japan co-opted the code of Bushido, which began as a guide to the means whereby an individual might live his life and be true to himself. They transformed it into a code which bound the individual to the corrupt needs of the state and its rulers.
This kind of Corporatist, anthill type of thinking is anathema to Western philosophy, who from Rousseau onwards, have taught us the value of individual life, and stressed the importance of individuals taking responsibility for their actions.
Democracy has triumphed over Aristocratic Feudalism, Facism and Soviet Corporatism for the simple reason that man is not a robot, he is an individual who thinks and produces best when he is free to make his own decisions.
There will always be pressure from both the extreme right and left to compromise the democratic principle, but that pressure will always fail in the face of free individuals working together to defeat it.
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"Consider that the French used some 49,000 German POWs to clear mines throughout Europe and Russia from 1945-1946, forcing the prisoners to walk through the area they'd cleared to prove that the area was safe.
There was :
150 000 bombs
several millions tons of munitions to destroy
28 000 Km² of mine field
2400 kilometers of coast and beach with mines
1 000 000 of mines...
a lot of work no ?
Don't forget that every month 0 to 5 bomb are removed 60 years after ...
yet another citation :
Entre 1945 et 2000, plus de 660 000 bombes, 13,5 millions de mines et 24 millions d'obus et d'engins divers ont été découverts, neutralisés et détruits.
translation :
between 1945 and 2000 660 000 bombs 13 500 000 mine and 24 000 000 shell have been discovered ,neutralized and destroyed
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From what ive read the early kamikazes were volunteer, but as the end came many were"volunteered" whether they wanted to or not. You cant blame the young "pilot" for doing this. People that age are very easy to convince, with a little pride, sake, and spiritual thinking. Even today with suicide bombers, if those people didnt think that at the moment of detonation they were going to a special place...other than becoming another dust particle in the atmosphere, they wouldnt be doing that either. The author of that probably ended up living out the remainder of his or her life happily. War sucks. Old men start wars, young men fight wars.
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I find this interesting, but somehow are you saying that the barbaric treatment of allied POWs by the Japanese was somehow justified since it did not break international treaties at the time?
No, I am saying that decrying the actions of the Japanese because they failed to adhere to the strictures of a treaty which they had not signed and were not bound by is pharisaical. We won WWII; we paid in blood for the power to judge their actions by our ethical and moral standards. Their treatment of prisoners and civilians was brutal and inhumane, but it wasn't in violation of the Hague Treaty.
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>>And what you miss is that 'good graces' and 'human decency' are Western value and moral judgements, not Japanese ones. You are condemning them for failure to adhere to codes of conduct alien to their culture. <<
Hmmm, surely you are not suggesting that the Japanese or Eastern cultures are without good grace and human decency?
And I am comdemning their leadership (during that time) for their failure to adhere to codes of conduct that any humane nation would embrace; the rape of Nanking comes to mind and/or the Bataan death march.
>>They didn't 'alter' any religion; they took their existing cultural traditions and cultivated the belief that the soldier was the modern-day samurai -- and thereby wrapped the military in all of the traditions and values from the 'golden age' of Japanese history<<
They most certainly did. Bushido was the predominate religion of the Japanese. It was a good and righteous set of beliefs, and it was bastardized by the militarists for their own ends. This was done as part of their grand design to go to war to take territory and resources. And in the other asian nations they could not co-opt into their greater east asia co-prosperity sphere, they invaded and took what they wanted. Interestingly enough, they made no distinction between the two types; they treated all of the member nations of the co-prosperity sphere like crud.
So, the Japanese like the Germans at the time, were all sold a bill of goods by their respective leadership; a thing we see repeated today in others. However, for me it doesn't change the fundamentals of it; it is wrong. If I decide to give up my life, it is my choice and I do it for reasons that may be so self sacrificial in order that others may benefit from it. I value my life, as do others in the world. I respect and have interest in other people and their cultures. As for differences between western values and eastern values, Ho Chi Minh was a patriot to the vietnamese people; he fought for his countrie's independence. It is not until recently that certain americans have acknowledged this fact, and have come to an understanding that he did for his country what many of our forbears did for America. But the fundamental value is right, and not based on manipulation and deceit as in the case of the militarists of the time.
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>>"If I had let that happen, the 100th Wing would have lost its military capability immediately. Our wing would be useless. If this wing was broken down bit by bit for kamikaze missions, what would be the point of having trained this wing, organized the wing, and taken the pain of transporting the wing? Why waste our efforts?" <<
Shamefully western in his approach to modern warfare I am afraid. To think that he would hold steadfast in his belief in the use of his unit as a fighting force.
By the same token I find it disappointing that for tjhose who lived (Japanese) to render their living opinions are somehow less deserving to tell the tale. They lived and their tales are truth as they were there and participated, IMO myths are tales of the dead and cannot be validated or confirmed.
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They most certainly did. Bushido was the predominate religion of the Japanese. It was a good and righteous set of beliefs, and it was bastardized by the militarists for their own ends. This was done as part of their grand design to go to war to take territory and resources. And in the other asian nations they could not co-opt into their greater east asia co-prosperity sphere, they invaded and took what they wanted. Interestingly enough, they made no distinction between the two types; they treated all of the member nations of the co-prosperity sphere like crud.
Shinto, Confucianism, and Buddhism are the religions of Japan. Bushido, 'the way of the warrior', is a code of honor and social behavior, not a religion. Bushido grew out of the old feudal bond that required unwavering loyalty on the part of the vassal. It borrowed heavily from Zen Buddhism and Confucianism. In its fullest expression the code emphasized loyalty to one's superior, personal honor, and the virtues of austerity, self-sacrifice, and indifference to pain. For the warrior, commerce and the profit motive were to be scorned. The code was first formulated in the Kamakura period (1185–1333) and put into writing in the 16th cent.; the term itself, however, did not come into use until the 17th cent. It became the standard of conduct for the daimyo and samurai under the Tokugawa shoguns and was taught in state schools as a prerequisite for government service. After the Meiji restoration (1868), it was the basis for the cult of emperor worship taught until 1945.
We owe much of our 'death-intensive' view of the samurai to the Hagakure, a book composed in the 18th Century. Written long after the last samurai army had marched into battle, the Hagakure - and books like it - sought to stiffen the flagging martial spirit among a samurai class nearly destitute and directionless. Needless to say, a good deal of idealism found its way into the pages of these 'how-to' books, but at the same time, the wisdom contained within was (and is) often distorted or misconstrued. Perhaps the most famous example is provided in the opening chapter of the Hagakure itself…
"The Way of the Samurai is found in death. When it comes to death, there is only the quick choice of death."
These oft-quoted lines find their way into many 'populist' books and magazines on the samurai and/or Japanese martial culture. Yet, if we read a bit further, we encounter this passage…
"We all want to live. And in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having attained our aim and continuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim IS a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai. If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he gains freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling."
In these words we find a depth and thoughtfulness lacking to some degree from our image of the samurai and death. Another Edo samurai, Daidoji Yuzan, wrote…
"One who is a samurai must before all things keep constantly in mind…the fact that he has to die. If he is always mindful of this, he will be able to live in accordance with the paths of loyalty and filial duty, will avoid myriads of evils and adversities, keep himself free of disease and calamity and moreover enjoy a long life. He will also be a fine personality with many admirable qualities. For existence is impermanent as the dew of evening, and the hoarfrost of morning, and particularly uncertain is the life of the warrior…"
The line between suicide and death in battle was often thin, especially since a certain measure of glorification was attached to the notion of perishing on the battlefield. Here we find the 'nobility of failure' Ivan Morris once wrote about, the gallant death of the losing warrior.
The Japanese military many principles of the Bushido Code in recreating the soldier as the 'modern samurai'.In keeping with the code, this totalitarian system demanded courage, devotion, and obedience. The system yielded a military characterized as rigid, extremely disciplined, and unquestionably devoted. Not surprisingly, the Japanese employed harsher disciplinary methods than any other World War II force. Even the infamous severe discipline of the Prussian army before 1870 was mild in comparison.1 The Japanese commonly applied brutal corporal punishment for even minor infractions. They believed such punishment to instill a boundless respect for authority and the chain of command.
With the production capacity of the US rolling the Japanese military back by sheer mass, and the continuing loss of personnel quality from irreplaceable losses and continuing cuts in training (At the start of the war, a pilot required 800 hours of flight training, 400 before beginning carrier training, to be carrier-qualified; as the war progressed, this was reduced to 200 hours or less by eliminating training in aerobatics, combat techniques, navigation, and dead reckoning, rationalized by the belief that the bushido spirit would make up for training deficiencies. These new pilots, some as young as 14, were thrown into battle with as little as one week of flight training.)
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The poor quality of replacement pilots frustrated Admiral Takajiru Onishi. He believed a new Japanese weapon was needed immediately to stop the Allies. Onishi's search for a new weapon was premised on the belief that Japan would never surrender. He did find a weapon to compensate for the disparity between Japanese and allied pilots. He believed the airplane should be used as an extension of the warrior spirit. Onishi opined the ultimate weapon would be the use of the plane as a human bullet. He only intended the human bullet to be used as a stop gap measure. He believed that the employment of this weapon, the Kamikaze tactic, would provide time for Japan to rebuild their forces. Unfortunately, Onishi's new weapon subordinated the most basic of human instincts, self preservation, to a predisposed death for the Emperor.
Onishi asserted that "The country's salvation depends on the appearance of the soldiers of the gods. Nothing but the sacrifice of our young men's lives to stab at the enemy carriers can annihilate the enemy fleet and put us back on the road to victory." He also stated, "What greater glory can there be for a warrior than to give his life for Emperor and country." Despite his positive rhetoric, considerable resistance to formalizing suicide tactics existed in the military and civilian communities. To circumvent the opposition, Onishi repeatedly attempted to gain a personal audience with the Emperor to convince him of the need for such desperate measures. Onisihi, however, never obtained a meeting with the Emperor. Eventually, the Naval Chief of Staff gave Onishi approval to covertly begin organizing special attack squadrons. This decision reflected the Bushido spirit of readiness to die for the Emperor.
Onishi intended to use the Kamikaze tactic as a temporary measure only. He planned to use the Kamikaze tactic to delay Western advancement to Japan so that Japan could recover from its losses. Once Japan had rebuilt the military, Onishi planned to abandon Kamikaze tactics.
Kamikaze acts were not unprecedented. Every air force in the world had experienced isolated incidents where injured pilots in damaged aircraft hurled themselves at enemy targets. These incidents showed the considerable damage that suicide tactics could inflict. What distinguished Japan's new approach, however, was the "voluntary" nature. Unlike their predecessors, these Japanese pilots were neither wounded nor were their aircraft damaged. These were organized, clearly suicidal, one-way missions.
The evolution of suicide tactics was slow and costly. Because of the ongoing lack of cooperation between the army and navy, suicide tactics were developed independently within both branches. Critical lessons learned during the initial stages of employment were not exchanged between the army and navy. This lack of communication undoubtedly resulted in wasting many lives.
When the official sanctioning of suicide tactics was revealed, it was fraught with great consternation throughout the Japanese public and military. While the Japanese culture did not view suicide as a disgrace, some viewed ordering a person to commit suicide for the Emperor as both inhumane and unnecessary.
The deteriorating situation for Japan required desperate measures. Japanese leaders knew America possessed vast resources but believed she lacked the stomach for the horrors of kamikaze attacks. Some Japanese believed the Kamikaze tactics would raise the stakes of the war and break the American will to fight. What Japan lacked in resources and equipment, it attempted to make up for in fighting spirit. The initial success of suicide attacks exceeded even Admiral Onishi's high expectations. Yet even these reported successes failed to gain the complete Japanese approval of Kamikaze tactics. The Emperor's response to the initial successes of suicide squads concerned Onishi. The Emperor was critical of the commander responsible for the tactics.
Admiral Onishi believed wholeheartedly in his plan but realized the continuance of his suicide program required the Emperor's approval, even if through silent consent. Two grave consequences resulted from his concern about what the Emperor thought. First, squadron commanders forwarded reports which grossly exaggerated enemy damages inflicted by Kamikazes to Imperial Headquarters to gain the Emperor and people's approval. These false reports garnered additional Japanese support by assuring the people that the deaths of these pilots were not without strategic reward. The second related consequence was the expansion of the Kamikaze program. The purpose shifted from a temporary delay tactic to the use of Kamikazes as the central focus of an offensive strategy. This expansion was due in great part to the inflated battle damage reports. The Imperial Headquarters, which believed these reports, created the propaganda "that the Kamikazes could win the war for them." Onishi did nothing to correct this false perceptions.
The initial Kamikaze pilots were some of Japan's finest. As the survivors of destroyed squadrons, these pilots were the best and the luckiest. There was no "rotation" of Japanese combat pilots. "A warrior went to war and fought until he was victorious or dead." Almost all of them had been shot down at least once, and none expected to survive the war. They flew on the ragged edge, and some were ready to try anything new. As this supply of experienced pilots was rapidly exhausted, they were replaced by innocent, unknowing teenagers.
Many Kamikazes eagerly volunteered for their one-way mission under the honor of the Bushido code. Some of these pilots volunteered, not in the hope of achieving victory, but due to the despair of the situation. One of these "volunteers" reasoned that "since I'm going to be killed anyway, I may as well make it account for something."
Initially, adequate numbers of volunteers existed to staff the Kamikaze squadrons. However, when the mission of these squadrons expanded and public support waned, there were not enough volunteers to fill the squadrons. As a result, the pressure on potential candidates was tremendous. Leaders told young pilots that Japan needed selfless warriors in these desperate times to put aside their worldly interests and eagerly sacrifice themselves. In doing so, their spirits would forever dwell in the Yasukuni Shrine for all of Japan to pay them homage.
One Kamikaze squadron commander, Captain Yoshiro Tsubaki, explained to his young pilots the gravity of Japan's situation and that it was now time to make a great decision. He stated "Any of you unwilling to give your lives as divine sons of the Great Nippon Empire will not be required to do so. Those incapable of doing so will raise their hands--now." This was, undoubtedly, an attempt to relieve the conscience of a commander who preferred to let volunteers commit suicide rather than to sentence them to death. However, his patriotic speech failed to rally the unanimous support for certain death that he had hoped for. Infuriated, the Captain called forward the six pilots who had raised their hands and "castigated the honest dissenters as cowards and then announced shamelessly that he had lied to them all, that these six would be set up as horrible examples to the others. These were to be the first to die."
Captain Tsubaki's actions were not an anomaly. Throughout World War II Japanese military leaders ordered thousands of men involuntarily to their death. These "sentenced" pilots often had weeks or months before their mission to contemplate the fate awaiting them. Many of these designated Kamikaze drank heavy after learning of their assignment and numerous accounts exist of drunken pilots being helped into their planes before taking off on their missions. As the motivation and spirit began to diminish in the Kamikaze squadrons, several methods were developed to ensure that pilots could not change their minds, once airborne, and safely abandon their mission. For example, pilots who returned to the base were ridiculed, labeled as cowards, and deemed unfit to serve the Emperor. Even those pilots who returned to their base because they could not locate their assigned target due to bad weather were subjected to ridicule. As a result, many pilots unable to find their targets crashed hopelessly into the water. Moreover, officials bolted some canopies shut to prevent the pilots from escaping certain death.
Onishi viewed the Kamikaze attack for what it was, a desperate act. He supported and developed these unprecedented squadrons as a temporary tactic to slow the American advance and give the Japanese Army and Navy a chance to recover from its defeats. Onishi had a clear hope that the employment of the Kamikaze would ultimately save more lives than it would lose. He quickly realized the ineffectiveness of the Kamikaze to achieve operational success but did nothing to end the use of this tactic. Instead he allowed Tokyo to continue to believe that Kamikazes could win the war for Japan, an idea he helped create through inflated battle damage reports.
Onishi was not the only Kamikaze advocate. Many other military leaders supported the continuation of Kamikaze and other suicide tactics and encouraged their expansion in both the military and civilian population. These leaders adopted the suicide slogan: "100 million die together." This death wish embodied the dream that Japan could be saved through the total sacrifice. These suicide tactics, divorced from any hope of victory, became a method of achieving glorious death and saving face. Japanese military leaders were more than willing to sacrifice every man, woman, and child in Japan.
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Originally posted by Shiva
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...This lack of communication undoubtedly resulted in wasting many lives....
Maybe it was the opposite...
Cheers,
Pepe
PS: Great Thread