Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texace on August 26, 2002, 11:37:06 PM
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OK...here we have a good example of stupidity raging in those with power. Here at Lake Worth High School...we have this thing we like to call the "PRO Card". What this is is a small little tag you put on your student ID that says you are "drug free" and they make you take a drug test for it.
With this PRO Card comes certain privlidges, such as free drinks at the local Race Trac and such. But what bugs me is the most coveted privlidge anyone at the school could have: leaving the school for lunch.
It don't sound like much, but it is the most sought after privlidge we have...and it's only for us seniors. However...me and a few of my friends cannot leave...even though:
- I am a senior
- I am almost 18.
- I have passed the "TAAS" test.
- I have parental permission.
- I am in the top 2% of my class
- I have my own vehicle
Even with all these, which my Mom and Dad and many other agree is MORE than enough...I cannot leave campus...for I have no PRO Card.
I know how worthless these things are...I know people who cut lines of coke with them. And yet those of us with jobs and respect of the school...we get zilch. "Piss in a cup and win a prize."
I even wrote the school board about it...and here is the exact text from that letter:
Thank you for your concern with our PRO Card system. We understand your complaint and it has been logged.
However, due to the success of the program, we cannot withdraw it without a proper vote. Please, sign up for a PRO Card and show the community you are drug free!"
Uh huh...right, then. I'm going to become another statistic so they can smile and be proud. No, they get nothing from the state over this...just the knowledge we are all "drug free"
Just shows you were just as screwed up as the federal gov't.
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Cripes, old enough to die for your country and vote. But not old enough to leave school for lunch. Your an adult for christs sake. Can't you sue them or just tell then for fek off or something?
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Show this post to your parents. You wont have permission long.
I have been a biker for 40 years. That means,when it comes to bikes, that I have been doing everything right for 40 years. That doesn't buy me the right to do even one thing wrong. One thing wrong, and I'm dead. This is the nature of the world. You will learn that when you grow up.
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Welcome to the real world :)
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the day befor the tests bring in and give away massive amounts of poppi seed buns :) that should about do it.
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They wont let you leave campus for lunch?
That was one of the perks of high school where I grew up. Everybody at my high school was allowed to leave campus for lunch. Didn't matter if you were a freshman or senior, clean or a druggie.
Sucks to go to your school.
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Never could leave campus for luch, always did. Usually managed to smoke a bowl otw to taco bell. Leave if ya want to, to hell with 'em. BTW, got college credit for english and biology in high school (just for all those that didnt want me to smoke a bowl otw to the bell)
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kinda ironic huh? I can't go to work without a piss test. you can't leave school without one.
on a sad note. get used to it. most people are willing to trade your rights and freedom for the illusion of safety and security. I've fought the fight on piss tests for 20 years, fought hard, gave up good paying jobs(while 'drug-free') because I wouldn't have my rights trampled, and I lost.
piss in the cup or starve.
btw- this only goes for the people who have to follow the regulations. the guy who rights your companys policy on saftey and makes the rules that dictate your work conditions can be high as a kite
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Sounds like you are exercising your freedom of choice to me. You choose not to take a drug test, they choose not to allow students to leave campus during lunch without one.
We had open lunch at our high school, only because it was so overcrowded that there was no way the cafeteria could hold us all, unless they made some of us eat at 9am and 2pm.
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And the reason you don't have a PRO Card is...why?
If it takes a test to get a benefit...then take the test.
Nowadays, you can't go to work for a major company without a drug test.
While you're railing against the machine, maybe you should consider the fact that most change occurs from within The System. Don't like the way some school program is working? Then get in the program yourself and then try to change it for the benefit of others. If you had said "I'm a PRO Card member and I think its unfair that students without a PRO Card can't leave the school", then your argument would've had more merit with the board. But then, you would've already earned the privilege you so desperately want, so fighting for others probably wouldn't be too high on your priority list.
If you think its bad now, wait until you're on the bottom rung of the university course registration system and getting bumped from the prime class hours so that a 5th year junior with more credit hours than you can get into his/her college program. It's only fair that you get bumped to a 6:30am class so that the other guy can get his college requirements in, right? Its never "fair" when its not to your benefit. You can't rail against the university machine - they've got the conformance thing down pat.
And if you think THAT's bad, wait until you're the new guy in the company and get shafted on pay raises, awards, and vacation days because the other guys in your department have more years of experience, more time in the company, and more rank than you. But that's assuming you can pass the drug test and don't have a criminal history.
I don't see anything stupid with the PRO Card program. You're a minor on school grounds and therefore leaving the campus is a privilege, not a right.
Kids these days....sheesh.:rolleyes:
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must be nice to have problems SO big :)
get your silly little "PRO" sticker and the privileges that go with it
In a post before, weren't you and your buddies bragging about being drug free? Now they are rewarding you for it. Get your sticker and go find something real to worry about ....
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Bend over for the Man. You'll need the practise.
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You havent even thought of a lawsuit?!?
That so un-american you diddlying traitor :mad:
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By the way you should get the damn pro card and start doing lines of cocaine in the bathroom. It wont be good for you but it will be amusing to read in the newspaper how the coveted "Pro" card was a fiasco and even aided students in their drug use :)
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Get the pro card. Go to college. Get a degree and a teaching credential. Come back to the school as a teacher. Have intimate relations with an underage cheerleader. Lose your job. Start doing drugs. Wind up in prison. Meet bubba the lonely guy. Begin a horrid life of sin and debauchery.
That'll show em.
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If you can work it out so that you get 2 cheerleaders, that would be better. See if you can work some sort of plea bargain with that in mind.
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Do what you feel is right, even if it isn't the easy way. Trust your judgement and your convictions.
Charon
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I couldn't leave school for lunch either in HS.
I did anyway.
Then I got caught.
But I kept doing it anyway.
Of course, I didn't like being at school anyway so I had a reason to leave for lunch.
-SW
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I say keep all the lil' buggers in the school. We don't want them in the way when we go to lunch.. oh wait.. they'r eating at 7-11 and picking up laz's joints on the way to Taco Hell.
Keep them locked up in pris.. er.. school !
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Originally posted by texace
With this PRO Card comes certain privlidges, such as free drinks at the local Race Trac and such.
Free drinks at the local race track? Beers and hiballs?
Do you get good odds too if you have one of these cards?
PS I suggest you watch a film called Gattica...watch it very carefully...take note and then go get yourself a PRO Card.
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Curval hit it on the nose... something between Brave New World and Gattica is where we are heading with crap like this.....
If you try to control people who aren't happy about it, how are they going to take it? I forget quickly how it feels to 'have to listen' to these sob's. in adult life you choose to work/school etc .. at that age the force you and then thorw in the HUMLIATION of a piss test.
I tell you how my high school days ended(22 working on BS now) ... I skiped school , so they gave me lunch detention; skiped that ;they gave more ;; still didn't go .. so the fix they had was to put me in 'in school detention' .. and they kept adding on 'in school detention' days so I stoped going at all (not learning crap/not socializeing), took the GED and started comunity college at 17.
(the school officaly got credit for me gradurateing because i took the GED; Despite them failing me IMHO; this was thier fix after my 11 year's in thier district ...I was a handsomehunk back then, but thier forceful controling BS was a huge failing IMO.
so anyway my point is don't let control freaks mess you up ...
If i had my highschool days agin i wouldn't have stoped going(letting them win) I would have simply gone to class and ignored the in school detention rap. If i were in your shoes (and by no means am i recomending you do this) i'd just leave for lunch and ignore any punishments they may offer. If they get real mean I'd get real mean .. Sew em' ,The control freaks.
BTW what drug is this piss test testing for? As he said kids will use them on coke lines ... becuase most drugs get out of your system quickly ...pot does not ... pretty much everything else is out in 2 days or less, on a piss test.
I'm not attacking teachers or classrooms (my mother teaches still) just the way schools try to 'control' people.... It's past for me but i'll have kids some day... I want better for them.
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Wait till they start adressing your classmates as Pro student "John Doe"
Thats when it gets wierd.
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Originally posted by Manedew
Curval hit it on the nose... something between Brave New World and Gattica is where we are heading with crap like this.....
If you try to control people who aren't happy about it, how are they going to take it? I forget quickly how it feels to 'have to listen' to these sob's. in adult life you choose to work/school etc .. at that age the force you and then thorw in the HUMLIATION of a piss test.
I tell you how my high school days ended(22 working on BS now) ... I skiped school , so they gave me lunch detention; skiped that ;they gave more ;; still didn't go .. so the fix they had was to put me in 'in school detention' .. and they kept adding on 'in school detention' days so I stoped going at all (not learning crap/not socializeing), took the GED and started comunity college at 17.
(the school officaly got credit for me gradurateing because i took the GED; Despite them failing me IMHO; this was thier fix after my 11 year's in thier district ...I was a handsomehunk back then, but thier forceful controling BS was a huge failing IMO.
so anyway my point is don't let control freaks mess you up ...
If i had my highschool days agin i wouldn't have stoped going(letting them win) I would have simply gone to class and ignored the in school detention rap. If i were in your shoes (and by no means am i recomending you do this) i'd just leave for lunch and ignore any punishments they may offer. If they get real mean I'd get real mean .. Sew em' ,The control freaks.
BTW what drug is this piss test testing for? As he said kids will use them on coke lines ... becuase most drugs get out of your system quickly ...pot does not ... pretty much everything else is out in 2 days or less, on a piss test.
I'm not attacking teachers or classrooms (my mother teaches still) just the way schools try to 'control' people.... It's past for me but i'll have kids some day... I want better for them.
hmmm
you ain't taking English by chance are ya?
Save your money, it ain't working.
:)
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Go to the school's bathroom with a bunch of friends,piss all over the floor and write in big letters on the mirror "PRO".
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So even though you dont smoke pot do this to get back at the show that even POTHEADS can get a PRO card too!
Suggest to all your pothead/druggie friends to goto your local GNC (or most health stores) pick up a nice bottle of "Ready clean" and let all the high ons get PRO cards too....
Now with the READY CLEAN you need to drink it 2 hrs before your test and have lost of water as well!.......AND IT DOES WORK i can say it has helped my self and a lot of people i know get past those annoying unconstitutional drug tests!
This way when you goto you principle and say even the kids you know are using drugs can get a pro card..............
Now take all of this with a grain of salt you older guys!
I know im not the only high on who plays this game but if this is what it takes to show these people in his school district that anyone can pass a drug test then so be it!
seriously folks "READY CLEAN" does work! but follow the instructions to a tee!
BOX ;)
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. "
Pitt the Younger
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get a PRO CARD! it is double plus good!
Seriously that is pretty lame. During school (including elementary school,) i was always allowed to leave school to go home for lunch. And I did.
Wanna fix em? find the most disgusting smelling food that you like to eat...... and eat it EVERY DAY!!!!
hmmmm warmed smoked oysters on crackers?
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DUDE JUST FOLLOW MY ADVICE
Get the PRO card and then O.D using speed on the bathroom floor with the PRO card pinned to your shirt.
That'll show 'em!
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Don't listen to Animal...He's using the Jedi mind trick again...:D
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You only get one life and in that life you only get one youth . Don't let others ruin it .
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We had a really messed up guy come into the school and try to stab a football coach a few years ago. Apparently, he blamed the coach for not getting him a full ride in college. After that, the tight tulips went nuts and locked all doors, put cameras at every entrance, and even tried to have closed campus lunches. THe lunches didnt happen.. basically we'd have to make 3 or 4 lunch periods to encompass the entire student body and that would extend the school day by an hour or more.
Now their "threatening" to close the lunches again because some paranoid nuts across the street are complaining of litter (it is non-existant) and other crap going on by "malicious youths." It pisses me off, but its not going to happen. Basically none of the faculty care if the students leave. We have some teachers doing hall monitor type things during their prep period and we walk right by, shoot the toejam with them for a while, then leave for the day. If there's a tight-ass, we leave through the locker room doors in the adjoining sports facility. No one cares, and we still get the public school 'education' either way (you'd really have to TRY and fail at our school).
Texace, just leave. :) If they have a problem, take it up with the school board.. maybe you can change something.
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Like i said Teach the drug doer's to get ready clean and they too can goto lunch with a pro card!
:) :rolleyes: :confused: :p
box
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Now now...let's not get hostile. I know what the perks are...I jsut refuse to have the school take a drug test, where if they mess it up or if I do something, then I get expelled. There's too much riding on the magical piss cup that niether me or my parents will allow me to take it. Trust me...I would gladly get one and just tell em to shreck it...but I can't.
Thing is...they won't let me get a drug test in a controlled environment with the proper equipment. The school does it's PRO Card testing at the school...and God knows what they do to get the results.
While this was a whine about personal things...it was also a way to show people other than the students how dumb some people can be. Dispite all the complaints about them...the PRO Card will never go away. The fact I was complaining about was that even with everything...I can't leave without that damn sticker.
Yeah...I seem selfish, I know...but it makes me mad when we are bound to the school because of something trivial. Yeah....I can suck it up...but I will make some noise while doing it.
Back to the bashing of me...;)
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dude.. the O.D plan.. email me for more details I have it all figured out it will be fun.
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The school has no business inspecting your urine. Absolutely none of their business. If you want to go out for lunch, do it. If they hassle you, sue their tulips off.
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Originally posted by texace
Now now...let's not get hostile. I know what the perks are...I jsut refuse to have the school take a drug test, where if they mess it up or if I do something, then I get expelled. There's too much riding on the magical piss cup that niether me or my parents will allow me to take it. Trust me...I would gladly get one and just tell em to shreck it...but I can't.
Thing is...they won't let me get a drug test in a controlled environment with the proper equipment. The school does it's PRO Card testing at the school...and God knows what they do to get the results.
While this was a whine about personal things...it was also a way to show people other than the students how dumb some people can be. Dispite all the complaints about them...the PRO Card will never go away. The fact I was complaining about was that even with everything...I can't leave without that damn sticker.
Yeah...I seem selfish, I know...but it makes me mad when we are bound to the school because of something trivial. Yeah....I can suck it up...but I will make some noise while doing it.
Back to the bashing of me...;)
texace, bash you? On the contrary, I admire you for your strength of convictions concerning the issue of drug testing. However, you have no right to be allowed to leave campus for lunch- it is a PRIVELEGE. If you're going to take a moral stand be prepared to take the consequiences of your stand. In California some schools make students take drug tests before they can participate in extracerricular activities like sports, cheerleading or band. The question presently before the Courts is rather extracerricular activities are a right any student has to participate in or not. In your case, however, the "right" to leave campus for lunch is only a privelege.
Give your parents a big <> for raising a child who questions the properity of drug testing and if you feel strongly enough about the issue then stick to your guns. Be forewarned, though, drug testing is becoming more and more acceptable and widespread in the workplace that it's almost unavoidable. By the logical progression of your thought process, will you be willing to live under a bridge in a cardboard box because you refuse to undergo a pre-job drug test? Just asking.
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That's BS Elfenwuss...Unless there is barbed wire around the "institution",you should be able to go where you want to eat a bloody sandwich without peeing into a cup...
My how quickly we get old and forget.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
That's BS Elfenwuss...Unless there is barbed wire around the "institution",you should be able to go where you want to eat a bloody sandwich without peeing into a cup...
My how quickly we get old and forget.
Well, I beg your pardon, but the schools absolutely DO have a right to keep their campus closed. My kid's High School has a closed campus because whenever they try an open campus the merchants complain over loitering and shoplifting. Are you saying the school has no right to offer special priveleges to kids willing to offer proof they aren't doing drugs? That'll be a hard sell in any community. Oh, and thanks for the "Elfenwuss" handle. I'll enter it into my archives:)
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If you really want to fight this, talk to the ACLU.
Just Say No to Random Drug Testing: A Guide for Students (http://www.aclu.org/issues/drugpolicy/say_no.html)
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You guys could leave campus for lunch?
Jeez, at my school, you couldn't leave the school once you arrived for the day, until the school day was done. PERIOD. Unless you had a medical emergency or had a call/note from your parents. Nope, you brought your lunch or ate the daily mystery meat. You left for lunch, you got the hammer brought down on you, hard.
Oh my god. I just realized I sound like my dad and I'm only 35. Shoot me.
(And no, I rode the bus to school, and it didn't snow that much in Virginia. :p)
Anyhoo...while I'm big-time anti-drug after seeing what pot and blow did to friends of mine in college, I really think the piss-test epidemic is going too far.
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WARNING! Children (oops teenagers, young adults, young fornicators whatever) who are allowed to leave school campus during lunch grow up to become cheaters and have affairs with coworkers during lunch. Save your grandchildren the future grief of divorce and dont allow your children to leave campus during lunch.
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I'm pretty surprised that so many people aren't allowed to leave school grounds during lunch. This is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing.
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Take the pee test ya'drug addict.
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I can't get the scene in "Look who's talking too" when the toilet harasses mikey for his pee pee outta my head.
I want your pee pee!!!!
aieeeeeeeee:eek:
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In my school district its a liability issue.
The faculty and whoever is 'supervising' the them are responsible for the students during the school day. I say have them sign a waiver releasing the district of any liability and get rid of this "prison mode" crap. Then if the kids want to go out for lunch, they can, and the school is not responsible. The school should not be given custody of the students during the school day.
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Originally posted by Octavius
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The school should not be given custody of the students during the school day.
Well, excuse ME, but as a parent I want to know that when my child arrives at school she is "confined" there until school is dismissed at the end of the day. I am absolutely opposed to an open campus at her school that might encourage illicit off campus activities and behaviors. I depend on my child's high school to vouch for her whereabouts during school hours and, in fact, would go ballistic if they knowingly allowed her to leave the campus during school hours.
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Never said you'd HAVE to sign the waiver :)
For those parents who can trust their sons/daughters simply leaving for lunch to eat at Taco Bell or Burger King, or EVEN at their own home, then they would assume responsibility as they would outside of school. If they'd like their kids to stay there, then fine thats the parents' decision.
But even now with the prison status of schools in my town, students still leave and return at their leisure. I sure wouldn't want to see law enforcement keeping MY kids at a public school... I'd give them a little more credit than that. Looking at it that way, maybe you could say the lack of trust is a failure at parenthood? :p
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We are talking about an 18 year old here He's legally an adult for crying out loud, not a child.
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Yes Elf,they should keep tabs...But pissing should not equal freedom.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Yes Elf,they should keep tabs...But pissing should not equal freedom.
Look, are we going to tell this kid what IS or what SHOULD BE? Sorry but in the real world you generally have to piss before you can get a job. Boo-hoo-hoo about it all you want, scream out to Heaven above that it's not fair and I'll agree with ya. But the bottom line is that most companies won't waste their time hiring druggies and so far the Courts have upheld the rights of perspective employers to require drug testing for perspective employees. That is reality. If texace is offered privelages above and beyond the normal standards customary in his school provided he is willing to take a drug test and he refuses than that is his choice. Like I said I admire a young man with principles.
However, what's his attitude going to be after he's spent four years in college and the only thing that stands between himself and a cush lifetime job with IBM, HP, Microsoft or whatever is taking a pre employment physical, which may include drug testing? What are his principles worth then? What if he majors in criminal justice and has to be drug tested as a condition of employment? Is that a violation of his rights or is the police agency that might hire him protecting itself from liability should he flip out and kill a few innocent bystanders?
Principles are great but we only discover how really important our principles are when it starts costing us something. Texace is sacrificing his off-campus lunch privelege because of his principles and I think that's great. I just wonder what he'll decide in a few years when the stakes are higher than the ability to leave campus and scarf out on Grilled Stuffed Burritos at Taco Bell.
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What's bothering with the system, is that it's only there to discriminate, it's not there to help.
No one will 'quit', so that they have their PRO card.
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Why not just take the test. I've taken a few in my life, no big toejam. You go to a public health center give them your name and pee in a cup. Smile and give it to the nurse.
:)
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Originally posted by texace
Now now...let's not get hostile. I know what the perks are...I jsut refuse to have the school take a drug test, where if they mess it up or if I do something, then I get expelled. There's too much riding on the magical piss cup that niether me or my parents will allow me to take it. Trust me...I would gladly get one and just tell em to shreck it...but I can't.
Thing is...they won't let me get a drug test in a controlled environment with the proper equipment. The school does it's PRO Card testing at the school...and God knows what they do to get the results.
While this was a whine about personal things...it was also a way to show people other than the students how dumb some people can be. Dispite all the complaints about them...the PRO Card will never go away. The fact I was complaining about was that even with everything...I can't leave without that damn sticker.
Yeah...I seem selfish, I know...but it makes me mad when we are bound to the school because of something trivial. Yeah....I can suck it up...but I will make some noise while doing it.
Back to the bashing of me...;)
Get used to it
Most decent jobs require the drug test & is fully within their right to do so
If you ain't using, stop whining, grow up & pee, get ur card and thumb your nose at the druggies
The test doesn't lie and it doesn't go into some black helicopter big brother database
Stop the martyr act ....
:rolleyes:
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They can't coerce you into peeing into a cup yet. So they're doing the next best thing, taking away your liberties untill you do . I know what I would do . If you do pee in the cup you're sending a message that what the school is doing is acceptable in america, it is not . It is a public school right ?
Anybody got that Heston speech on civil disobedience handy ?
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You're 18 so you don't need parental consent to leave school grounds . They can legally penalize you academically for missing class, that's truency . But penalizing an adult for going where you want when class is out is awfully close to false imprisonment .
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Suggest to all your pothead/druggie friends to goto your local GNC (or most health stores) pick up a nice bottle of "Ready clean" and let all the high ons get PRO cards too....
You do realize that stuff will kill your kidneys, right?
But, hey, that's ok because chicks dig 4 inch scars on 45-year old dudes' love handles.
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Originally posted by texace
Now now...let's not get hostile. I know what the perks are...I jsut refuse to have the school take a drug test, where if they mess it up or if I do something, then I get expelled. There's too much riding on the magical piss cup that niether me or my parents will allow me to take it. Trust me...I would gladly get one and just tell em to shreck it...but I can't.
Thing is...they won't let me get a drug test in a controlled environment with the proper equipment. The school does it's PRO Card testing at the school...and God knows what they do to get the results.
Take the test. If it comes back bogus and causes problems, sue them on the grounds you laid out above - uncontrolled environment, contaminated testing, improper technicians, and so on. Might earn some quick cash from a school board looking to avoid a scandal.
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Originally posted by Eagler
hmmm
you ain't taking English by chance are ya?
Save your money, it ain't working.
:)
Lol...I think he missed my point.
In Gattica they all had to take piss tests. The main charcater had an ingenious little system to allow him to use someone else's pee.
Not taking this test out of moral outrage is silly...I think he doesn't want to take the test because he knows the results won't be favourable.
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Originally posted by Curval
Not taking this test out of moral outrage is silly...I think he doesn't want to take the test because he knows the results won't be favourable.
No Curval, I was morally outraged about these tests back when I smoked pot too.
er.....nevermind.
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Join some whacko religion where its forbidden to share body fluids with anyone other than a lifetime partner. Must be one with that in it somewhere. Hit them with Religious grounds and see how far they push it.
Or, Pee both on the inside and the outside of the cup. Then hand it to them. Do that everytime and they will love you.
Or, just pee in the damn cup.
You wont win anything in the end either way.. Not over such a pathetic issue as body waste. Your gonna end up doing it in outside employment anyway when the big bucks count.
There is nothing more whiney than Students proclaiming their civil rights. Noone other than students care. Thats a hard thing to swallow. When you get into the big world, you find swallowing gets you places. (Ask any Lawyer) LOL. Its better to learn now. :)
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If you don't take the drug test you are assumed to be a drug user. If you take the test and pass you are assumed to be a non drug user. Hmmmmmmm, isn't this profiling? I thought profiling wasn't allowed in government?
I think what this is all about is to show that the board of education is "doing something". It's all about making the board feel good about themselves and the public is being fooled by their actions.
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If there is a more worthy cause to fight for than freedom I don't know what it is . Some people think that surrendering your rights is part of growing up . I say die on your feet .
Better dead than red .
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Originally posted by Samm
If there is a more worthy cause to fight for than freedom I don't know what it is . Some people think that surrendering your rights is part of growing up . I say die on your feet .
Better dead than red .
choose ur battles
pissing in a cup ain't nothing to die over in my book
then again, I ain't got nothing to hide - well nothing that they'll get out of that cup anyway
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Something to inspire you . http://www.survival.com.mx/gunrack/heston.html
You've probably read it allready, but maybe you need to again .
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I've had to submit to urine drug test for over a decade now . But unlike texace's situation none of my basic liberties are threatened should I ever choose not to, the day that they are is the day I refuse .
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Originally posted by Octavius
Never said you'd HAVE to sign the waiver :)
But even now with the prison status of schools in my town, students still leave and return at their leisure. I sure wouldn't want to see law enforcement keeping MY kids at a public school... I'd give them a little more credit than that. Looking at it that way, maybe you could say the lack of trust is a failure at parenthood? :p
It's not a matter of "trust." FYI I DO trust my child enough that she drives her own car to and from school less than a mile away. If she were required to undergo drug testing to compete in volleyball I would hope she realizes volleyball is a privelege that requires the waiver of her right to privacy. Likewise texace should realize leaving campus is a privelage earned by sacrificing a right to privacy. He's being given a choice and there's no punishment being levied against him for refusing to take a drug yest.
Samm, how in the hell is YOU taking a drug test for a condition of employment different than texace having to take a drug test? You really think random employee drug testing isn't a violation of your rights, yet you're urging texace to refuse to take a drug test? LOL You're a hypocrite.
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The point here is that texace IS still a minor. From his original post, "I'm ALMOST 18".
Another good point is that leaving campus is a privilege, not a right. Like all other privileges, you must earn the right to take advantage of them. Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. You had to take exams to get your license. That license enables you to drive. Abuse that privilege, and the license will be taken away. Being asked to pee in a cup so that you may earn the privilege of leaving campus is not infringing in any way on any of your rights.
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Why is public education getting involved in law enforcement? Drug testing in schools is just plain wrong. Public schools are not part of law enforcement! Public school is mandated. Employment isn't. So don't compare apples and oranges.
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Freedom to leave a public premises is not a privledge. I do it all the time . Let someone tell me that I have to pee in a cup If I want to leave someplace .
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texace give them your cherished piss so that you will have a PRO card to burn at the PRO card burning .
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Random drug testing in the workplace is a touchy subject. However, it certainly is not infringing upon your basic liberties. You don't want to take a test, you don't have to. That is your choice. However, the consequences may be that you lose your job as result.
When you are working for an employer, you have made a contract between yourself and them. Your end of the bargain is that you will perform your duties to the best of your abilities. Your employer's side of things is that you will be compensated for your efforts. If you are unable to perform those duties due to any fatcors, you become a liability to your employer. Employers will be up front with you from the get go. They will tell you about their drug testing policies. If you don't like them, you don't work for that employer. Again, not once have your liberties been infringed upon.
Amazing how we talk about "liberties". I spent 4 years of my life defending the very freedom that allows us to continue enjoying these liberties. I have also been to places where those liberties are ruthlessly denied. The point is we have the freedom of choice. Choose to take your drug test, or choose not to take it. If it is forced at you, then you may make your stand.
Semper Fi.
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Originally posted by OZkansas
Why is public education getting involved in law enforcement? Drug testing in schools is just plain wrong. Public schools are not part of law enforcement! Public school is mandated. Employment isn't. So don't compare apples and oranges.
huh?
They are just upholding the law. Guess we should do away with metal detectors at our inner city schools too. Look at the "freedoms" those things take away .... :rolleyes:
I'd go a step further, if they failed the drug test, they'd be expelled from school until they tested clean. But I'm a hard bellybutton :)
An education IS a privilege, just don't realize it until you get much older & your head out of ur arse.
If we took a poll, my guess would be the kids under 25 and the druggies (of all ages) are about the only ones with an issue over this silly rule.
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Guys, guys, please. You are reading me wrong. It's not the fact that I cannot get one...it's the fact my PARENTS will not let me. My dad has been fighting the school ever since I got here 4 years ago about this program, as they have been doing this as a front to make themselves feel better while they dropped the more expensive but more succesful DARE program.
I have a job...I have taken a drug test, and I am not against taking them if I had to. This I was mentioning is that I should not HAVE to take one just to get this one privlidge. Yeah, I know I have to earn privlidges...but I've been going to this school since kindergarten, that means this is my 13th year. I guess I still haven't earned it.
And no...I do not and have not taken drugs...try as you might to accuse me. I ahve taken several drug tests in the course of my work, and they come back clean. Trust me...I would have a card if my parents would let me. Be it I'm not 18...I can't get one myself...and that's because they, as well as myself, do not believe the school should handle the drug testing. If they would let us go to a clinic, then I could...but they handle it on the grounds.
Perhaps I should have not brought this up...I'm spending too much time defending myself while pointing out flaws in the system. Jeez...can't carry on a simple conversation without bashing. In my mind...I earned the privlidge...I shouldn't have to proev to them that I won't go smoke a bowl.
Another thing...the PRO Card says they will have random drug testing...but in the 4 years I've been here...there never has been a random test...it's something they tell you to keep you from doing drugs.
*sigh*
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Originally posted by Eagler
They are just upholding the law. Guess we should do away with metal detectors at our inner city schools too. Look at the "freedoms" those things take away .... :rolleyes:
Actually, piss tests aren't the law. And especially not in a public school system.
OTOH, Metal detectors are there for the protection of the students. They keep guns out of schools.
What do drug tests do? Certainly don't keep the drugs out of the schools.
There is absolutely no law for drug tests, other than for government employment.
-SW
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You wouldn't need a PRO card if you knew...
GYMKATA!!!
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Now compulsary education is a privledge in america ? Funny I thought it was a constitutional right . Thankfully texace the schoolboard isn't above the law If you choose to join the cardholders off campus for lunch there is nothing they can legally do . Also consider yourself lucky to have a thinking man in your corner, your father .
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Oh and for the record I'm not one quoted in Mathman's sig .
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Originally posted by texace
[B This I was mentioning is that I should not HAVE to take one just to get this one privlidge. Yeah, I know I have to earn privlidges...
[/B]
Leaving a public premises isn't a privledge, like I said I do it all the time . In fact if someone tried to stop me from doing it they'd be braking the law .
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I've fought the fight on piss tests for 20 years, fought hard, gave up good paying jobs(while 'drug-free') because I wouldn't have my rights trampled, and I lost.
Wouldn't have your rights trampled?? Nice dramatics, that one. I'm guessing that nobody has ever put a gun to your head and forced you to take a drug test, yet you feel you have a right to force an employer to hire you even if you don't want to take their drug test.
Last I checked this was a free country, for both employees and employers. But hey, keep whining about how the man is bringing you down. It's so original after all :rolleyes:
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The test doesn't lie and it doesn't go into some black helicopter big brother database
Horsepucky on both counts, eagler.
Tex, follow the courage of your convictions. No matter WHAT you decide to do, you'll have to live with the consequences.
If it was me, I'd tell 'em to stuff it.. but my opinion does not count. Only yours does.
Whatever you decide to do.. thanks in advance for displaying the presence of mind to think about what you are doing, and it's impact on your life, and the statement your compliance/non compliance makes on the system that is more and more becoming an invasive intrusive monkey on all our backs.
Good luck!
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texace:
- snag a sample of a PRO card from a buddy or lift it off one of the wussy, roll-over-me, conformist students.
- scan it into the computer
- photoshop it and tailor it to your identity
- take it down to Kinko's for lamination
- make copies for sale to anyone who wants it
Sometimes you have to show idiots why a policy decision is a bad one when they don't listen to logic or follow an ethical, or realistic, standard in forming them.
-sudz
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Originally posted by koala
Wouldn't have your rights trampled?? Nice dramatics, that one. I'm guessing that nobody has ever put a gun to your head and forced you to take a drug test, yet you feel you have a right to force an employer to hire you even if you don't want to take their drug test.
What if the employer want to take a blood test to see if you had AIDS?
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What if the employer want to take a blood test to see if you had AIDS?
If AIDS has a demonstrable affect on work performance, then I see no problem with that.
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Originally posted by koala
If AIDS has a demonstrable affect on work performance, then I see no problem with that.
Does having a joint on the weekend have a demostrable affect on work performance?
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Does having a joint on the weekend have a demostrable affect on work performance?
I don't know, does it?
In my younger days I got a job at a video arcade where I was basically running the shift, handling the money, etc. A requirement for the job was to take a lie detector test where some of the questions revolved around whether I had ever stolen anything, of what amount, etc.
Did that test measure my work performance? Not sure. Did I have a right to refuse to take it? Absolutely. Did the employer have the right to refuse to hire me based on the results of the test or if I had refused to take it? Absolutely.
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Originally posted by koala
-Did the employer have the right to refuse to hire me based on the results of the test or if I had refused to take it? Absolutely.
Not in California.
California Labor Code §432.2
(a) No employer shall demand or require any applicant for employment or prospective employment or any employee to submit to or take a polygraph, lie detector or similar test or examination as a condition of employment or continued employment. The prohibition of this section does not apply to the federal government or any agency thereof or the state government or any agency or local subdivision thereof, including, but not limited to, counties, cities and counties, cities, districts, authorities, and agencies.
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(a) No employer shall demand or require any applicant for employment or prospective employment or any employee to submit to or take a polygraph, lie detector or similar test or examination as a condition of employment or continued employment. The prohibition of this section does not apply to the federal government or any agency thereof or the state government or any agency or local subdivision thereof, including, but not limited to, counties, cities and counties, cities, districts, authorities, and agencies.
Typical double standard. Apparently it's okay for the government to require a test, but not a private business. What a wacky state.
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Koala- A joint over the weekend will screw you up for monday morning work about as bad as getting boozed up until your face down in the toilet on both Friday and Saturday nights. EDIT: Let me re-phrase that... Several (6-10) joints would be the equivelent of getting boozed up until you're face down in the toilet on both friday and saturday night. You'll be ready to roll come monday morning.
In other words- not in the slightest bit.
The government requires drug testing, but private companies are free to do as they please.
Why should polygraphs be any different?
One more thing to think about- drug testing, in any sense, does not include alcohol.
So, if drug testing is for either a) the efficiency of workers or b) the safety of workers... it's a moot point, as it accomplishes neither.
Basically, it's just to find out who's doing illicit drugs and make sure they can't work to support their habit.
-SW
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Of sheeesh, so here we go- the ultimate reason that those who oppose drug tests is because- (Ta Da-) They're the one who do drugs. And- gee- it REALLY won't affect my job performance, mister, because I only do drugs on weekends and anyway I'm willing to take a voluntary AIDS test although I oppose your right to use a polygraph to tell rather I ripped off the LAST guy who hired me to run a cash register. If, on the other hand, you hire me as a dentist in your pratice I must inform my patients if I am HIV positive (according to public concensus) even though you, as an employeer, don't have the right to ask me if I am HIV positive nor ask me to take a test as a condition of employment. See where the paradox is?
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The government requires drug testing, but private companies are free to do as they please.
Why should polygraphs be any different?
Huh? Did you even read the law that I quoted? In Kalifornia businesses are not "free to do as they please", but are prohibited from administering a polygraph test. The government, on the other hand, is free to do as it pleases.
Basically, it's just to find out who's doing illicit drugs and make sure they can't work to support their habit.
So why would your average business go through all the trouble of paying for a drug test? Because of some morality kick? Because they're on some anti-drug crusade? Try again.
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Hey guys they are kids. The school is giving them a cookie to behave. How did this go flying off into a civil rights issue. How about a little common sense.
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Originally posted by koala
Huh? Did you even read the law that I quoted? In Kalifornia businesses are not "free to do as they please", but are prohibited from administering a polygraph test. The government, on the other hand, is free to do as it pleases.
Yeah, the Government does a lot of things differently than privately owned businesses.
What's your point?
So why would your average business go through all the trouble of paying for a drug test? Because of some morality kick? Because they're on some anti-drug crusade? Try again.
Then you tell me. If they don't include alcohol, it ain't for safety and it ain't for job efficiency.
The only thing a drug test tells you is that someone has done a drug recently. It doesn't indicate whether the person is currently under the influence of it or not.
Apparently, though, you think you know what the drug tests are for. Let me tell you something, they ain't for much more than preventing a drug user from getting a job. End of story.
Elfenwolf- whatever I do on the weekends doesn't effect my work performance during the week. OTOH, if I went into work all fugged up.. yes, it would effect job performance. Then again, if I went in all hopped up on Nyquil PM, my job performance would be effected. The only thing these drug tests are good for is to find out who does ILLICIT drugs and prevent them from getting a job.
If you think otherwise, you are seriously dillusional and should read up on exactly what these drug tests are. If they do not include alcohol, or any other impairing licit/legal drug, then they are not for safety NOR are they for hiring people who are efficient at their jobs.
I know plenty of sober people who suck bellybutton at their work, maybe they should have a "suck ass" test instead? Seems it would go a lot further towards job safety and efficiency than these joke of a drug test.
I'm opposed to drug tests because they are complete roadkill. They don't test for everything that effects job performance, efficiency, or safety- the reason these drug tests were first instituted back in 1983.
-SW
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Yeah, the Government does a lot of things differently than privately owned businesses.
What's your point?
My point is that businesses should be free, just like the government, to administer drug or polygraph tests if they so choose. Prohibiting a business in California from screening individuals with a polygraph test is crap, and doubly so since the government allows it for itself. Is this a hard concept to understand?
Then you tell me. If they don't include alcohol, it ain't for safety and it ain't for job efficiency.
Why do you say they don't test for alcohol? If you take a piss test and there's alcohol in your system, are you saying the test doesn't report that? Try again.
Apparently, though, you think you know what the drug tests are for.
It doesn't matter what they're for. If a business feels that a test is a legitimate indicator of work performance / trust worthiness / attendance rates / whatever, and is not discriminating based on color / creed / sexual orientation / whatever, then it should have every right to apply the test. If you don't like it, go apply somewhere else. Pretty simple, eh?
Let me tell you something, they ain't for much more than preventing a drug user from getting a job. End of story.
Ahh, so businesses are out to persecute the poor drug users. That's how they make their money. :rolleyes:
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I have fired an employee for failing a piss test and coming up positive for alcohol.
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My point is that businesses should be free, just like the government, to administer drug or polygraph tests if they so choose. Prohibiting a business in California from screening individuals with a polygraph test is crap, and doubly so since the government allows it for itself. Is this a hard concept to understand?
Why do you think businesses should be free to issue polygraph tests?
So they can find out how toejamty of a worker you will be.... before you even started working there?
Why do you say they don't test for alcohol? If you take a piss test and there's alcohol in your system, are you saying the test doesn't report that? Try again.
Because.... they don't.
I've taken 'em before. I read that lil strip. I see methamphetimines, amphetamines, cannabis(THC), cocaine, MDMA, MDA, psylocibin, etc.... I don't see alcohol. And if it ain't on the test... then I guess the test can't report it, huh?
There is no requirement for testing for alcohol... neither in the government nor in the public workforce.
You think any differently? Try again.
It doesn't matter what they're for. If a business feels that a test is a legitimate indicator of work performance / trust worthiness / attendance rates / whatever, and is not discriminating based on color / creed / sexual orientation / whatever, then it should have every right to apply the test. If you don't like it, go apply somewhere else. Pretty simple, eh?
So, you think it's cool to discriminate based on what a test shows... which is NO indication of how an individual will perform at work, but only what they do in their spare time... but at the same time, color, creed, sexual orientation is not cool?
Hear me out... if you generalize a race based on your experience with them, then you're discriminating. If you generalize a religion based on your experience with them, then you're discriminating.
If you feel that because that dude is gay, he might grab your ass, and you don't hire him... you are discriminating.
But... if you generalize a group of people based on what they do on their own time in their own homes because you have had past experiences with other people that do the same thing... it's totally cool?
The irony....
Ahh, so businesses are out to persecute the poor drug users. That's how they make their money.
They certainly ain't gonna help them get a job.
-SW
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There is no requirement for testing for alcohol... neither in the government nor in the public workforce.
You think any differently? Try again.
Did you not read Midnight Target's post directly above yours??
Hear me out... if you generalize a race based on your experience with them, then you're discriminating. If you generalize a religion based on your experience with them, then you're discriminating.
If you feel that because that dude is gay, he might grab your ass, and you don't hire him... you are discriminating.
But... if you generalize a group of people based on what they do on their own time in their own homes because you have had past experiences with other people that do the same thing... it's totally cool?
The irony....
I'm not saying it's "totally cool". Which tests I feel are important for my business is not the issue. I'm saying that businesses have a right to screen people based on what they feel are legitimate reasons. The government has banned discrimination based on color / creed /sexual orientation, so that's really not a point of discussion. Drug testing has not been banned, nor has it been mandated by the government. It should be up to a business to be free to administer it if it so chooses. Is that short-sighted? Maybe so. Do I want to work for a business like that? Maybe not. But, that's not the point.
Using your line of argument, businesses should not be able to "generalize" a group of people based on what level of education they have, regardless of the job they're applying for. I know some very good software engineers who have nothing more than a high school degree. Does that mean businesses shouldn't be allowed to require a college degree for a job?Businesses have to "generalize" by definition, because, regardless of the exceptions, that's the best way to maximize their chances for finding a suitable candidate in a reasonable manner.
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Well, excuse ME, but as a parent I want to know that when my child arrives at school she is "confined" there until school is dismissed at the end of the day. I am absolutely opposed to an open campus at her school that might encourage illicit off campus activities and behaviors. I depend on my child's high school to vouch for her whereabouts during school hours and, in fact, would go ballistic if they knowingly allowed her to leave the campus during school hours.
My parents trusted me with off-campus lunches in high school,and I never gave them a reason not to.
It's a shame you don't trust your daughter the same way.
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Yes, but in the case of someone with what some would call less than acceptable education (used loosely, I know that education is only a small part in being good with computers/software) he probably had experience. The experience got his foot in the door, and he probably stunned everyone in there... thus securing his job position.
But with a drug test, you can have all the credentials, all the experience, and have a whole flotilla of recommendations... once that drug test comes back positive for something, you're back at square one, looking for a job.
Now, yes it's true, drug tests don't interfere with me... not right now anyway. I do work for the fed gov too, but I don't get tested.. nor has there been any reason for them to do it.
but that still doesn't mean that I like the idea of drug tests becomming an acceptable means to screen applicants. Currently it may be rare... but it was far rarer just a few years ago. Then Best Buy did it, and shortly thereafter more businesses and corporations followed.
In the future, will it be possible to even hand someone your resume before you have to piss in a cup?
I dunno... but that's why I'm opposed to it, because I don't want it to become like that.
Yes, I read Target's reply... but he's the EXCEPTION (caps because I mean extreme exception) not the rule. In the case of the fed gov, people go to lunch and get a couple rounds of drinks for lunch... sometimes a little before lunch too... and sometimes a little after lunch as well.
Either way, it doesn't sit well with me unless drug testing includes ALL drugs, not just illicit ones.
-SW
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Originally posted by Sox62
My parents trusted me with off-campus lunches in high school,and I never gave them a reason not to.
It's a shame you don't trust your daughter the same way.
Sox, she goes to a school that has a closed campus. If she is off campus she knows she's in violation of the school's rules. If I found out she were sneaking off campus I would take away her car. If the school had an open campus and she could go off campus to get something to eat then that would be fine. In fact that would be better for me because she begs me to pick her up a Subway sandwich about once a week. It's not about trust, it's about following the rules.
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Originally posted by koala
Typical double standard. Apparently it's okay for the government to require a test, but not a private business.
The law recognizes that employment standards for public safety, law enforcement, and national security are different than those for a change monkey at the video arcade.
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The law recognizes that employment standards for public safety, law enforcement, and national security are different than those for a change monkey at the video arcade.
Yeah, I guess the only important / high responsibility jobs are in the government :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Sox, she goes to a school that has a closed campus. If she is off campus she knows she's in violation of the school's rules.
Fair enough-I wasn't aware of that from your previous post.My apologies.