Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: EDO43 on August 28, 2002, 06:39:18 AM
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I've seen more than one post from AH players who wonder why perk planes cost so much and for the most part, have little or no advantage to flying them. I was pondering this point while trying to beat the LAG into the main arena last night and this is what I thought of as a possible solution. When I fly a perkie, I usually fly it to perform a specific task, like bomber interceptor (262) However, flying a 262 against a bomber formation is at times very precarious and costly with almost no reward. Kill three B-17's, land the 262 and get .26 perk points. Something seems wrong here...is it just me or should the reward mirror the risk involved?
A. Since most players don't use perk planes much, if at all, and they do cost so much; why not raise the ENY Value way high so that if you do land 4 or 5 kills in a 262 (which for me is extremely hard to do) you're rewarded handsomly for keepin the wings on the 262 and being sucessful? Perk planes such as the F4U-1C need not be raised but if the cost is 60 or better, I'd say that an ENY value increase is in order. Increase in ENY should fit the cost proportionally.
B. If that were to happen, would the use of perk planes increase to a point where everyone who could fly them, did? or would it become the ride of the experten who would dominate the skies and rack up more perks than if they had flown a regular airplane under the same circumstances?
I have not seen this thread yet but I'm almost positive that it's been addressed. Sorry if this is a repeat but my brain was actually working last night for a change. ;)
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Perk plane can be handy to drag away all the con in an area and so the goon can make a good stealth approach :)
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So, you want MORE reward for flying superior planes?
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many people have no problem running up big scores in perk planes.
the reward of the perk plane is flying the plane itself not gaining the ability to fly even more perk planes.
If you raised the eny value of the perk planes to give them perk points for success, you would remove the perk points that they provide someone who shoots them down.
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True it would, but there would still be the loss of the cost of the aircraft to the flyer of the perk plane. Personally, if there's a perkie in the area, I know way in advance that the majority of people in the area are going to be trying to catch and kill it, so I don't bother with em unless they attack me. If yer flying something with an ENY of 40-60 unperked, your chances of catching someone in a perk plane are slim under normal circumstances (furballs excepted) If you're flying a P-51B which has an ENY value of 35 or 40 (i forget) and you shoot down a Tempest which might have an ENY of 70-90 you'll still get some perks but not as many. It would be like a N1K (ENY 10)shooting down a Hurricane IIc (ENY 40). People who perk farm usually fly Hurricane IIc's, Spit I's, Hurricane I's and other planes with very high ENY's. Raising the ENY of perk planes would get more people flying them and thus force them to get away from the "spit dweeb" syndrome or the N1K dweeb syndrome. In my experience, these people who fly spits and N1K's do so because they're easier to get kills in, and/or they handle better than the others. There are the exceptions to the rule as in anything else.
Who now that flies a 262 which cost 200 points, flies it into a furball that doesn't have thousands of perk points to lose? I've not seen that many in furballs and those that I do are usually on the outskirts of the meelee waiting for stragglers.
I'd like to know how one can rack up impressive scores in a perk plane, like the 262, and get a decent reward for doing it? I've seen the text buffer say "so and so landed 5 kills in a 262 of....yadda yadda" 5 kills of what? bomber's, fighters, Ground Vechicles? I'd bet that 5 kills gets you 1.5-3 perks in that 262 under the best of conditions. To me, it's anti-climatic to land the plane, damaged or not, and look at your score only to be disappointed by the numbers.
I don't know about anyone else but attacking a bomber formation in a 262 is nerve racking to me, when I know the gunner is watching me and despite my speed, pings me up as I blow by at 600+ mph. The 262 does not take damage very well in my experience.
Let the risk justify the reward. It's not a reward to be able to fly the perk plane, it should be rewarding to do well in it given that it is supposed to be a superior airplane. To do well in it, you know as well as I that the pilot needs to be not only aware of the strengths and weaknesses but be able to employ them. Only experience flying the plane will afford the experience of knowing how to use it.
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I'd be willing to suggest the guys doing well in the perk planes aren't worried about how many points they get.
J_A_B
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It will not pad your perk points but it dous pad your fighter score.
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The last thing I'm thinking about when flying a 262 or Temp is the perk points I'm gaining. 262's 30mm have knocked at least 2-3% off my hit% this tour because I can't hit crap with em so it's porked my fighter score in one area too :) . Perk planes are FUN and as long as they stay fun I'll fly em.
Oh, BTW I fly 262's into furballs. Truly a funny thing to do and I only have 750 fighter perks.
Gatso
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As far as I gather, the purpose of perk planes is to reward people for getting kills in the lesser used planes. As things stand now, the gangbang tags, combined with only marginally better performance than the non-perk planes, you MUST fly extremely conservativly in order to avoid getting gangbanged.
For instance, the f4u4, with the f4u4 tag, every la7, and p51d within icon range will lock onto you, and unless you're sitting up around 20k, waiting for someone to climb up and fight you, they can run you down fairly readily. Only between 15 and 20k does the f4u4 have any real performance advantage over the p51d. The plane sucks in the vertical, having unbelivably bad prop torque, and to date is the only plane I've managed to put into an unrecoverable spin. I don't really mind that the plane is perked, but for f***** sake, the gang bang tags are over doing it. As things stand now, The f4u-1 is a better aircraft than the f4u-4. And the F4U-1C is the best perk plane, because its the only one that doesnt turn you into a gangbang target.
Turning the perk planes into gangbang targets removes any fun of flying them for me, and I'm sure for many others. If they're supposed to be a reward, shouldn't they be fun?
If the perk system is there to prevent certain planes from being used, why do we even have the f4u4 and spit14? They're almost never used, and are nearly impossible to do well in unless you're one of the better fighter pilots in the game, simply because of the gangbangs.
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It's fun.
Flying a plane that climbs like and elevator or goes like a bat out hell, is a blast. For me, the combat side of flying a perk is secondary.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It's fun.
Flying a plane that climbs like and elevator or goes like a bat out hell, is a blast. For me, the combat side of flying a perk is secondary.
Unfortunatly, the f4u4 does neither.
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perk planes are perked to keep them rare in the main.
how hard is that to understand?
They arent perked strictly on performance but other factors as well.
Quit whining over it.
Perk points are easy as hell to get. I get between 10-15 per average sortie.
the f4u-4 would end up being used more in the main and its overall impact would be equal to that of the chog. You werent here when the chog was getting nearly 20% kills in the main. Even with all the squeaking over the la7 it never has come close to chog level. We dont need cheeper perks because that would mean perk planes become less rare.
Theres a reason that perk planes have unique icons. It works well it keeps folks from hiding behind the icon for ez kills.
Go download the help files and read what it says about perks.
The perk system works as designed. Its a good system as the planeset expands hopefully the perk system will as well.
Next time you think you have come up with an original whine do a bbs search first. This topic has been beaten to death.
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Well I'm against unperking any of the perk planes, they all deserve it. The problem is that, because of the gangbang tags, you're better off flying a less obvious plane unless you happen to be one of the top fighter pilots.
If the intention is to keep perk planes nearly un-used, then it's doing exactly what it should be. Why not just remove them completly? Nobody would ever notice the difference.
You argue that perk planes should be rare, to a certain point I agree with you. But c-47's racking up more kills than perk planes is way too rare IMO.
BTW, the more a topic "has been beaten to death" the more it indicates there are issues that need to be dealt with.
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BTW, the more a topic "has been beaten to death" the more it indicates there are issues that need to be dealt with.
no it doesnt. with every new wave of new guys they whine about perks. They fly planes where they only score 2 perks a sortie and look at the 70 perk price tag and their jaw drops.
The c47 doesnt rack up kills. Dweebs kill themselves going after an easy kill. The same way they do on perk planes.
HT set the value to keep certain planes rare. The ta 152 get as many sorties as say a late war plane would get in an rps. They are still flown. They are flown effectively even with their icon. Most people have a hard time dealing with getting shot down in general. It really pisses umm off when someone shots down their perk plane.
I had near 6000 perks at one point lost umm got back to 3000 lost umm up to 1200 again. They arent hard to earn. they mean nothing if they're lost. The perk system does what it was designed to do.
You wanna fly a perk plane like everyone else then earn the points like everyone else.
My squaddie has almost 7000 and could give a crap about perks. He could fly 262s a whole tour exclusively.
If folks take the time to read how to maximize the number of perks they can earn per sortie then they wont sweat the cost of a perk plane. Get out of the late war monsters and into some really decent mid war planes. I could earn enough perks in 3 average sorties to fly a temp or a f4u-4 if i cared to.
If dont wanna fly anything but late war planes well then dont whine about perks costing to much.
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I personally have 3000 perks, earning them is patheticly easy. Earning them flying planes such as the F4U-1, is a hell of a lot more fun than using them. I don't care about the price of flying them. It bothers me that in the MA, an F4U-1 is a much more effective fighter than an F4U-4.
As things stand now, once you've flown the perk planes and realized how pointless they are, you'd might as well go back to the spit9's and la7s.
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I guess they ARE pointless if you're looking for a secret, dweeby advantage over everyone else.
if you just take one up for jollies though they can be quite fun.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
I guess they ARE pointless if you're looking for a secret, dweeby advantage over everyone else.
if you just take one up for jollies though they can be quite fun.
J_A_B
I don't see how a perk plane could ever be as dweeby as an la7, spit9, or n1k2. Especially since earning perks in those planes is next to impossible.
Am I wrong that the perk system supposed to be an incentive to fly early war planes? Or is it there to stop people from using late war planes? Or some combonation of the two? As it stands now, all it does is stop most people from flying them. The spit14, and f4u4 see virtually no use.
I have over 3000 perks because there is no fun in being chased by a half a dozen p51d's and la7s everywhere I fly them.
And yes, perk planes rule, if a friendly field is being hit and you want to pull a few of the attackers into a long chase.
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theres no incentive to do anything.
All planes earn perk points for kills. eny values have been adjusted numerous times not to encourage early war planes but to reward those who fly umm. Most people could give a damn about perk planes and they fly whatever they want.
You havent seen dweebery until you seen the chog unperked. That plane got the near 20% of the kills in ah. HT perked because it became unbalancing. I never cared one way or another about the chog being perked but it made for better gameply. La7s arent no where near what the chog was. What do you think will happen if they unperk the tempest or f4u-4.
Spit 9 dweeby? get out of here the spit 9 is slow as hell and a 1942 plane. Its easy enough to kill or escape from. Niki? slow as hell aswell.
With all them planes chasing (which is an exageration on your part) make fer ez kills.
Take a tempest through a furball a few times and you will see that flown right it dont matter how many planes are chasing you they are nothing but fodder.
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Originally posted by Wotan
All planes earn perk points for kills. eny values have been adjusted numerous times not to encourage early war planes but to reward those who fly umm. Most people could give a damn about perk planes and they fly whatever they want.
Take a tempest through a furball a few times and you will see that flown right it dont matter how many planes are chasing you they are nothing but fodder.
Did I say anything about unperking anything? I believe I said quite clearly that, all of the perk planes need to be perked.
This is exactly my point. They're supposed to be a reward, but they're not. Most people dont care, because the perk planes aren't worth using. I'm sure to a fighter pilot whos been playing x years can easily make mincemeat out of x attempted gangbangers. But that doesnt mean that the rest of us can easily deal with being gangbanged in any plane.
Just because you're good enough that something is easy, doesnt mean the rest of us are. As many are quick to point out, the pilot matters a lot more than the plane.
If the perk planes are going to keep thier gangbang tags, then all of the free planes should have the exact model displayed. (i.e. Spit9)
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The gangbang tags are what keep me out of perk planes. Even if I were good enough to survive the gangbang, which I'm not, I still wouldn't fly them as they aren't fun.
Then again, if I were that good it might be fun.
Wotan,
Stop bragging. You know damn well that most people can't hope to get 10-15 perk points per flight. All you're doing in every thread you type that in is bragging.
The average player gets about a 1/1 K/D ratio. I do better than that when I am not Jaboing. I can count on one hand the number of times I've won 10 or more perk points for a mission.
You're just using these threads as a forum to tout your skills. Well, very good. Your way above average, probably in the top percent or two. I'm probably in the 50-75% category.
Even then it isn't about the perk icons. Price them at a tenth of their current value and I'll still not fly them often (I'd be lying if I said my usage wouldn't increase dramatically though), the perk icon takes the fun out of it for the vast majority of us who are more or less average.
Take away the gangbang icon and triple the perk price. That'd be fine by me and would dramatically increase my usage of perk planes. They'd be fun to use and actually feel like a reward worth buying.
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I don't think he is really bragging. Maybe it is just the planes we fly. If I land a 5 kill sortie in a 190A-5, that will usually be around 10 to 15 perks. It is more if they were all Spitfires and La-7s, and less if they were all goons :).
But it really isn't that hard to get perk points. I do agree that flying the perk planes is a waste of time, since all you do is call attention to yourself. You have to either fly like the biggest wimp ever, or fly in a huge crowd of friendlies, niether of which is very fun. Plus since 99% of the action takes place below 8k, you can get perk plane performance just by using the La-7.
I think it'd be nice if the F4U4 and Spit XIV just read "F4U" and "Spit"- that way you'd have to be a little more careful when attacking the other F4Us and Spits. Plus you wouldnt instantly call every La-7, P-51, and Tiffie out when you see them. The Ta-152 I could care less about, it'd be worthless even with a generic "190" tag. All people would say was "Gee, that 190 was so much more easy than normal to kill" :).
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Urchin,
Keep in mind that I don't exactly fly a low ENY aircraft either. Its not like I spend my time in Spitfire MK IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s and N1K2-Js. I fly Mosquitoes mostly. True, the Mossie may be harder to get multi kill sorties with and then land them in, but it gets nicely rewarded for the kills it does get.
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"that way you'd have to be a little more careful when attacking the other F4Us and Spits"
That's exactly why the perk planes need the separate ID's....so we don't have to treat every Spit/F4U/whatever as if it's a potential perkplane.
I always did like and still DO like the idea of the perk planes (all planes actually) having the "generic" ID tag at long range, switching to the "specific" at short range (about 1500 or so). This would permit a perk plane some degree of movement in a crowd while still permitting its opponents to properly tulips the threat.
What do you guys who want the "perk tags" removed think of something like that?
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
What do you guys who want the "perk tags" removed think of something like that?
J_A_B
The same argument applies already. When you run into a spit, you need to treat it as a spit9, that can turn like a spit5. Or the 109f vs 109g, etc.
I have no problem with any specific tag system, provided it's consistant. If a perk plane's tags show up at d1500, the same should apply to the 109s, 190s, spits, etc. I really prefer the idea of having to treat everything like it's dangerous, rather than assuming "oo easy kill".
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I really find it interesting to know that some guys have anywhere from 3000 to 7000 perk points. It only shows me how really bad I am. The most perk points I have ever accumulated since alpha testing this sim is 600! The most perks I ever got for one sortie was 10 and the most kills I ever got in one sortie was 7, but that was before perk points :).
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Perk planes are NOT all superior, the hog-4 is the 4th fastest, 4th best climiber (all from different A/C at different speeds. Add to that the "here I am, gang-rape me" tag sucks as well. Give some skill to all of us and make us get in close to determine which 109, 190, pony, jug, spit, or hog we're about to dance with. Works for me!
"Flying like a wimp" is good SA IMO, and I think if we really only had one life to deal with we would all be flying with a fair amount of virtual urine in our shorts (myself included). Those of us that Fly SEA know the deal. One-life events rule!
Since I do fly corsairs mostly I always have to be on the lookout for getting jumped by some dude who assumes all hogs are easy kills (and thanks by the way LOL), and I admit, if I were in a hog-4 and some poor bastage assumes I am in a Delta...sucks to be you, but thats life. Don't rush in and maybe you'll become better overall. As for perks, as long as I have 50+ I'm good, and if not, I take a hog-1 (which is my first choice bird), loaded Delta Hog, F4f, Fm2, P-51c, zeke, or 205 and get them back over a short time. easy enough.
Respectfully, All this stuff about "flying like a wimp" makes no sense, when those of us who never really had to do this in RL can talk this type of bologna. I try to fly and land every sortie and sometimes knowing when to run like hell is not wimpish, it's smart :)
Gainsie
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Originally posted by J_A_B
What do you guys who want the "perk tags" removed think of something like that?
J_A_B
Forgot to add....great idea, but lower it to D-800, or force the player to make a visual confirmation his/herself.
Oh, one more thing...
UNPERK ME! :D (flame retardant suit...ON!)
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IMO, the perk points are useless (to me anyways). I get a great deal more satisfaction smoking a superior a/c with an inferior one. The fact that I get a ton of perkies for doing it is inconsequential. I don't take up perk planes cuz just about the time I get off the runway I CTD and I don't get to use them anyway.
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bs karnak i fly an a5 g6 or g2 3 or 4 kills = 10 to 15 perks. That aint braggin.
Gangbang tags? get out here. These are just whines from folks who are afraid to get shot down.
A 262, temp, f4u-4, spit 14 and 152 if flown correctly need not worry about planes chasing you. Thats a fact.
70 perks arent hard to earn if you care about flying a perk plane. If you dont care about them then it doesnt matter.
Flying perk planes arent a reward for anything.
But constant whining about how much they cost is bs. You as a player can fly planes that allow you to accumulate perk points faster then the late warbirds.
reducing the perk values only catters to guys who fly the late war planes.
And what the hell do you mean the plane aint worth their perk value?
Perk points arent gold to be horded.
Sounds like the idiot who was whining about how c47s were trying to ram his 262. "They were out to get my perk plane".
None of this is braggin karnak. Braggin would be stating the number of times I scored over 50 perks per sortie. :)
Or when brady got near 85. :)
I am the worst player in my squad and am at best average.
If you hold on to perks afraid to use them because bad guys will try to shoot you down then theres no sense in you worrying about perk points they are of no value.
The perk system works the way its supposed to.
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Originally posted by Wotan
bs karnak i fly an a5 g6 or g2 3 or 4 kills = 10 to 15 perks. That aint braggin.
None of this is braggin karnak. Braggin would be stating the number of times I scored over 50 perks per sortie. :)
I am the worst player in my squad and am at best average.
R U KIDDING? 50 points in a sortie??? And you consider yourself and average stick??? OMFG, I'm gonna go kill myself cuz I celebrate when I get a 3 kill mission and land 12 points and I think that I'M an average pilot.
Wotan, teach me, I am your humble student :D
Now excuse me, I have to go cry in a corner someplace. Almost 2 years here and I still suck. And I thought I was getting better ;)
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this is no lie brady got near 85 in a 205.
i killed 12 or 13 planes in a 205. I only went after nikis and and spits.
but this wasnt dog fighting it was cherry picking around a huge furball at a4 a5 on the island map. i upped at a1 and headed south to 22k and orbited the flank of a huge furball. their must of been 60 guys there.
Brady got 59 vehicle perks in a m8 now that was something :)
Just get kills and perks take care of themselves. You can increase the perks you earn per sortie by flying planes with a hi eny value and killing planes with a lo eny value
Heres an example
last tour i was
Wotan has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109E-4 against the Spitfire Mk IX.
109e-4 has an eny value of 55
the spit 9 eny of 10
55/10 = 5.5*1.25 for landing the sortie = 6.875
so kill 1 spit 9 and land it in a 109e you will earn 6.875 perk points
now multiply by 6
Totals 41.25 fer 6 kills
like I said it aint braggin or skill. It a matter of what you want out of the game. If you want that perk plane fast then there are ways to do it.
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Originally posted by Modas
I don't take up perk planes cuz just about the time I get off the runway I CTD and I don't get to use them anyway.
:D
Punt
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I take a perk plane up about once a tour. Most often, that plane is a 262. I also usually lose that 262 because I love to get crazy with it. Do I really care that I just lost 200 perks? No. What I care about is that I just had a blast driving a plane that I don't normally take up. I also love watching as every enemy in sight completely loses track of what they are doing to come and knock me out of the sky. Seeing all those guys just about wet themselves with the anticipation of shooting down my jet is worth the perks :).
Anyway, the rest of the time I'll be in my bravo pony.
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What about the Ar234? This plane is almost usless now but yet it still costs 60 points or 180 for a formation.
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Wotan,
You are massively deluding yourself if you think that you are average.
Your K/D is almost 3 to 1. That would put you below the top one or two percent, but still far above average. The average AH pilot gets about 1/1 in the K/D department.
You also aren't flying aircraft that have staggeringly high ENY values. The Mosquito's ENY of 40 is as high, or higher, than anything you fly save the Bf109E-4. Your most common ride, the Fw190D-9, has an ENY of less than half the Mosquito's.
My best sortie in the Mossie got me five kills and about 8 perk points. I did not succeed at landing it though. Mosquitoes are too slow to run from two of the four most common fighters in the MA.
As to me hording perk points, er, no. My low point was 64 shortly after the Spitfire Mk XIV came out. I've now got about 230. I came as close as one can to being a 4 and manage not to.
I would greatly appriciate you telling me how I can always succeed at running away in the Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1. This has eluded me.
As an example, I was using a Spitfire Mk XIV in a many on many situation. It got to the point were my E state was getting low and an N1K2 and an La-7 were agressively after me. I managed to climb away from both of them, but an enemy P-38L then arrived at higher altitude. He dove on me, I did a break turn with rudder slide, but he was a good shot. goes the Spitfire Mk XIV.
Now, I could simply have remained up in teh stratosphere and watched the Rooks and Knits fight, but why? If you can't actually engage the enemy with a Spitfire Mk XIV, why fly it? Keep in mind also that the Spitfire Mk XIV guzzles fuel and doesn't have much loiter time. It is also unremarkable in performance unless it is on WEP, of which it has five minutes, you are paying the 60 points for those five minutes.
How could I have outrun the La-7, N1K2 and P-38L?
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Gangbang tags? get out here. These are just whines from folks who are afraid to get shot down.
A 262, temp, f4u-4, spit 14 and 152 if flown correctly need not worry about planes chasing you. Thats a fact.
I IM Wotan So it must be all be true
:rolleyes:
Moto
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Originally posted by -moto-
A 262, temp, f4u-4, spit 14 and 152 if flown correctly need not worry about planes chasing you. Thats a fact.
262 and tempest, sure. Not really sure about the spit14.
But if you're in an f4u4, flying it correctly means flying 10k above everyone else. And spending more time climbing than fighting. The same tactics to stay alive in an f4u4 or 152 apply to the p51, f4u, 190s, 109s, etc. The gangbang tags make the plane not worth it's cost. It's a good plane, and should be perked, but it doesnt have the invulnerability of the 262 or tempest.
Attached is a speed comparison between the f4u4, 109g-10, p-51D, and the la7.
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"How could I have outrun the La-7, N1K2 and P-38L?"
I've done that a bunch of times in a Bf109G6 which is slower than the Spit14 or even your Mossie.
Anyway the answer is simple Karnak you just don't seem to have the skills or experience in decision making neccesary for survival. When I flew more often cared about my KD no planes posed a problem for me because I could set my attacks up so it was possible to run away even in the 330mph deck speed G6.
First you diddlyed up in letting that P38 come above you - that is only your fault. If you turned HO into that P38 there is a very good chance he would loose you after reversing himself. The Spit14 acceleration is amazing and with a little luck and jinking you would have come hom safe.
It was your mistake and lack of good judgement that cost you 60 perks, not any weakness in the plane.
The perkplanes wont make you a better pilot. I think you are dissapointed in this because you are unable to live your RAF romance novel uber spit fantasies. :D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
"How could I have outrun the La-7, N1K2 and P-38L?"
I've done that a bunch of times in a Bf109G6 which is slower than the Spit14 or even your Mossie.
Big difference here.
Most people when they see a run09 extending wiill pursue for a while, and then give up. The attitude when facing a perk tagged plane is completly different, they will chase you for as long as possible, ESPECIALLY if they know they'll eventually catch up.
While karnak probably did die because of a greivous error on his part, comparing the ability to extend after a dive to a perk planes being able to run from la7s is wrong. The bottom line with perk planes is, if you go under 10k feet, you will be run down and killed by la7s unless you're in a tempest or 262.
This puts us back to the point of, to survive in a perk plane, you need to spend most of your flight climbing, so that you're at least a few thousand feet above anyone you might encounter. Unless you happen to be one of the top 5% of pilots, then you get to tell everyone how since you're average, they should be able to fly like you do. :p
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Grunherz, it must be wonderful to be as arrogant as you are on this board. Are you that way in real life too? Just wondering :)
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Mark you cannot imagine what we have to listen to on squad channel :D
(J/K grun ;))
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I've seen more than one post from AH players who wonder why perk planes cost so much and for the most part, have little or no advantage to flying them. I was pondering this point while trying to beat the LAG into the main arena last night and this is what I thought of as a possible solution. When I fly a perkie, I usually fly it to perform a specific task, like bomber interceptor (262) However, flying a 262 against a bomber formation is at times very precarious and costly with almost no reward. Kill three B-17's, land the 262 and get .26 perk points. Something seems wrong here...is it just me or should the reward mirror the risk involved?
My answer to this is that I find flying perk planes the only time when living matters, yeah maybe you have to fly conservativly (or like a wimp as urchin said :) ) but surley this is more akin to real life than mindless furballing dieing and respwning.
Perk planes are for guys who like to feel a bit more immersed in the whole fighting dieing thing as death means something,
or alternatively you have soo many perks you dont care about looseing them so its just a bit of mindless fun zooming around, trying to hit something with the potatoe launchers on a 262.
but either way gaining perks is not the main thing.
I'm sure everyone gets a hit of adrenaline as they come in to land a damaged 262, I know I do makes me shake for ages, and if I crash so be it, ying and yang, pleasure and pain.
to me the pizza map is the best perk plane map as your not so likely to get ganged and you can fly a bit more aggressive.
as for tags isn't Baron manfred von richtoven famous for his all red fokker dr.1 triplane ( I think the biplanes he flew also had some red on), eric hartman had his black petal design (as seen in AH ) on his 109, and a female russion ace had a lily or something painted on the side (cant remember her name but I think she got ganged by 109' when they I.D'ed her)
So in RL some had tags as we do hear in AH.
Fly any plane right and you should survive even perk planes.
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AMEN Blank!!
Turn the MA into a 5-life arena, and see who the wimps are after 4 deaths.
(points to everyone, including self) :D
I know I'll be flying as if I'm in a 262 w/ one engine and no left aileron, but that's just me
Gainsie
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Originally posted by Karnak
Wotan,
I would greatly appriciate you telling me how I can always succeed at running away in the Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1. This has eluded me.
As an example, I was using a Spitfire Mk XIV in a many on many situation. It got to the point were my E state was getting low and an N1K2 and an La-7 were agressively after me. I managed to climb away from both of them, but an enemy P-38L then arrived at higher altitude. He dove on me, I did a break turn with rudder slide, but he was a good shot. goes the Spitfire Mk XIV.
Now, I could simply have remained up in teh stratosphere and watched the Rooks and Knits fight, but why? If you can't actually engage the enemy with a Spitfire Mk XIV, why fly it? Keep in mind also that the Spitfire Mk XIV guzzles fuel and doesn't have much loiter time. It is also unremarkable in performance unless it is on WEP, of which it has five minutes, you are paying the 60 points for those five minutes.
How could I have outrun the La-7, N1K2 and P-38L?
WTG Karnak So true :)
The few times I flew a spit 14 with it,s come get me Im a Perk Icon
I became the main target. The one time I did survive I had at least 6 cons on me and gaining untill a friendly 262 zoomed into the conga line and broke up The train and dusted the lead bogie for me to ecape. Don't know if the 262 made it home but he sure saved my bacon
:D
Innominate;
Gangbang tags? get out here. These are just whines from folks who are afraid to get shot down.
A 262, temp, f4u-4, spit 14 and 152 if flown correctly need not worry about planes chasing you. Thats a fact.
Are Quotes from Wotan not me messed up on my Copy & paste job:D
Moto_MOL
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LOL Mark...
Karnak is my left wing commie sob :D buddy here and I was giving him bit of a hard time since he made a big point that Wotan's skill level gave him an unrealistic perspective with the perkplanes. So I just turned it around at Karnak as a friendy remark of course.
Innominate I wish I found more of those La7s that just stop chasing me after they begin closing, it just don't happend that often. They keep coming if they are closing the gap. My point was to set up your attacks so that they dont have a chance to even begin to close. Then it doesnt matter how they behave or what you are flying.
And straffo you will now wax my plane in addition to my boots you insignificant peon!!! :D
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karnak i have more kills in a d9 because its easy to kill in. I fly it less then the 190a5.
in the d9 I had sorties of 7 8 11 kills.
I have 24 kills in the ki 61 , 29 in the a5 , 13 in the g6 , 14 in the f8.
my k/d vrs la7s is 8 to 1 flying mostly slow planes. I hardly ever climb above 15k. My "skills" are average. k/d means little.
Heinkel (my squaddie) has near 10 to 1 k/d). He has a 33 to 1 k/d in the d9. He has a 10.5 to 1 against spit 9s. he is 25 and 3 in the g6.
None of this is the point.
The point is if you wished to fly a perk plane then there is a way you can go out earn perk points quickly. By flying planes with a hi eny value and killing planes with a lo eny value.
Planes arent perked based on performance. So for you to judge its value based on how you perform in it is wrong. They maybe less fun to fly but thats not the point either.
The f4u-4 is in the top 10 k/d of all planes in ah. So is the ta-152, So is the spit 14, so is the temp so is the 262. So is the chog.
Some how people fly these planes and arent run down by the hordes of perk chasing la7s. I maybe fly 3 to 4 perk sorties a tour and when I die it has always been because I screwed up.
edit
moto
I dont know what you are trying to say. Maybe a language thing or I am just stupid but could you spell it out a little more clearly for me.
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GRUNHERZ,
Whatever.
Sure, I could stop the P-38L from having arrived higher by....
I don't know, you tell me how you affect the actions of other players who are 12+ miles away.
Basically your solution said "Karnak, you moron, you actually engaged in combat. You idiotm don't you know that you should just sit up in the stratosphere?"
If I had ensured that I was higher than the P-38L, I would not have been able to fight anything as nothing was up there to fight. I was BnZing lower aircraft, which were steadily pulling the fight down as they always will. When my E state started getting a bit stale (I was never low on E) I used the Spit XIV's tremendous climb capability to climb away from the La-7 and N1K2. I had escaped both, they were no longer any sort of threat. When the P-38L started coming down on me I did a break turn into his path, as per basic fighter tactics. I added rudder slide to the turn to make my path of travel less apparent to the P-38's pilot so as to make his shot harder. He hit me anyways and took off my left wing.
To end, the falacies in your assumptions are as follows:
I couldn't get away from the La-7. Fact: I had escaped the La-7.
I broke away from the P-38L's fire and gave him my 6. Fact: I broke into the P-38's path and he hit me in a 75 degree deflection shot.
I could have been both above the P-38 and still participating in the game. Fact: The P-38 came in at 15-20k and the fight was at 5k.
You have escaped La-7s in a Bf109G-6 (you didn't out run them over a long haul) and this perfectly translates to being able to do it in a Spitfire Mk XIV or Mosquito. Fact: The La-7 pilot would certainly assume he was facing a Bf109G-10, which is almost as fast as the La-7 at sea level and faster at higher altitudes. Therefore, when you screamed down in a Bf109G-6 and were pulling away he assumed that your 109 was a G-10 and not worth the effort of chasing down. The La-7 seeing a Mosquito knows that it isn't anywhere near as fast because there is no version confusion. He knows it is an easy kill, for many reasons. The La-7 seeing the Spitfire Mk XIV knows he is faster and besides, it is a perk plane. He'll stick to it like glue for no other reason than that. I've had a Spitfire Mk IX chase my Spitfire Mk XIV, that it couldn't possibly catch, for two full sectors simply because I was in a perk plane.
To sum it up, you're full of it.
Wotan,
I thought I had made the point. I do fly aircraft with high ENY values and I do kill aircraft with low ENY values. This is an idiotic point you seem to think you're using against me. It is all moot and doesn't matter as I can fly any aircraft in the game, I just don't see the point of perk planes other than the Me262 and F4U-1C. The Tempest is marginally OK with a perk tag as it, at least, is a few miles per hour faster than the La-7. Perk planes, particularly the Ta152H-1, F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV, are simply no fun to fly because of the icons.
Taking away the icons, but leaving the perk cost, does not suddenly mean people won't fly to live in their perk rides, it simply means that non uber, great, experten, aces would have a shot at making it home. As it stands, perk planes are really only usable by the best players in the game.
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Originally posted by Wotan
The f4u-4 is in the top 10 k/d of all planes in ah. So is the ta-152, So is the spit 14, so is the temp so is the 262. So is the chog.
- The chog has a much higher kill ratio than the f4u-4.(This says SOMETHING is definitly wrong)
- The 190D-9 has a higher kill ratio than the f4u-4.
- If you perked any of the 1944-45 aircraft in the game, It would also be in the top10 k/d.
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the d9 is not flown as much as the chog was and would be flown as much as the f4u-4.
My point about their k/d was to counter the claims that they "get run down chased by all dweebs in la7s p51s, spit and nikis. People who do fly umm kill more then those who chase them.
I would np at all if ht perked the d9. I have suggested this on numerous posts.
But all it would do is reduce the number of times its flown.
All the planes that are perked need to be.
As to perk icons once again. Thats simply a response to your fear of losing your perks. I get chased in any plane I fly, regardless of icons. Hiding behind your icon because you cant deal with the fact people want to kill you is rediculous.
Look at the la7 charts, look at the spit and niki charts. this will clue you into how to fly your perk plane.
The only plane you need worry about is a p51. The p51 is the most shot down aircraft in Aces High. There are great 51 pilots out there but most are terrible. It doesnt take a whole lotta skills to shoot umm down.
The reason perk planes are less fun to fly for some is they are afraid to lose their perks if shot down. As if they have some value. So they fly all cautious instead of just having fun with it.
Manage your speed and e in a perk plane and the odds of you gettin run down by the hordes of perk plane haters is slim to none.
Re-adjusting perk values because you feel a plane aint worth it is not the way to go about it.
Karnak if you kill 3 spit9s in your mossie and land it its 15 perks.
dont land it its 12
For this tour you killed 3 b26s and 3 la7s
you aint gonna get crap fer perks killing bombes
you killed 3 la7s
40/15 = 8 perks if you dont land it 10 if ya do
you killed 2 p51s
40/12 = 6.6 (7) land it you get 8.3 (8)
The rest of the planes you killed in terms of perk value arent worth the bullets.
You kill more more planes on the mid to higher side of eny value. I know you said you kills planes with a hi eny value but atleast this tour that aint true.
You can kill what ever you want. But I'll repeat again if a guy wants to fly any perk plane and wants to do it fast. Then up and plane with an eny value of 35+ and kill spit9s .
Dont tell me the spit 9 is so uber that killing them in a mossie is too hard. Dont tell me you dont see plenty of spitfires cause they are everywhere. If ya cant find a spit 8 there always a niki.
If you can hold a 3.5k/d flyin a mossie (you have 7 kills 2 deaths) then you can accumulate perk points fast. You have to target the correct planes.
I always look for the spit, niki, p51, la7 in that order when I want to get perks. A 205 is perfect for this. A ki61 is great but you need more discipline.
The alternative to a perk sys is an rps. In an rps you only get 1 day a month to fly these planes. Now you can fly them whenever you want. If you dont have enough perks you know what you have to do to get umm.
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Wotan,
So you categorically deny that people treat enemy aircraft with perk icons any differently than any other enemy aircraft?
You completely misunderstand why I don't like perk icons.
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Wotan:
You are correct that perk points are easy to get. The cost is not the issue.
You are also correct that any perk plane is able to survive p51s, la7s, whatever. However, ANY plane is able to do this. The FREE planes are better at this than the gangbang tagged perk planes. (This is also why the C-hog comes up so high in the k/d list. People fly it like a perk plane, but dont have to worry about the gangbang tags) This tour I am 21 and 1 in the 190A-5, not because of it's performance, but because of being a potato in it. Survival isn't the plane, but rather in how it is flown.
Any perked plane will be in the top10 for kill ratios, simply because of the conservative nature of flying them.
The gangbang tags mean that you need to be even more convservative. In the 190, if someone comes in above me, I know that I only need to dodge them once or twice before they move on, and often they'll just ignore me. With a gangbang tagged plane, ANYONE coming in high will immediatly lock onto you. When you dive past or through a furball, you're guarenteed to catch the eyes of several people.
I don't care about the cost of the plane. I don't even care about losing the perks. I want to spend my perks on a plane that will be a fun flight, not sitting on alt-x for 10minutes, diving on someone, extending to get away from the gangbang, and then another 5 minutes on alt-x for another go.
Do I want a plane that has a signficant advantage over my opponents? Yes I do. Perk planes should have an edge in a fight. Right now all they do is draw attention. Flying a perk plane shouldnt mean you get to fly a superior plane over a fight and watch the action from several thousand feet above.
Double or triple the cost, or even have the cost come into play no matter how the sortie ends. The cost is unimportant if FIGHTING in them isn't fun.
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you have posted in numerous threads that this or that perk cost to much. If cost is irrelevant they why the posts?
You say you dont want them unperked, then why the posts?
How about this, you just up a plane and have fun?
Whether its costs perks or not. Why worry about if the plane cost you XX perks. Just up fly like you would anything else and have fun. If ya die, well ya die. So what if it cost you 35 perks or 70?
You only fly "more conservative" because you are worried about the perk "value". Perk points in and of themselves are meaningless. So you hold umm because if you take off in a perk plane you are some how bound to fly it in a way that its no fun.
There was guy that quit ah because he claimed a c47 kept trying the ram his 262. As if the 200 perks were real money. I have fun when I fly a perk plane but I have more fun flying others.
When I fly a 262 I am not sitting here worrying about how many perks it cost me. I fly it the way I fly every plane. I even lost 1 to a pt boat. Big deal I had fun.
Again perk planes arent perk based on performance alone. Just because ht assigned a value of 70 perks to a plane doesnt mean that plane is any better then a free one.
No matter what plane it is its the guy flying that makes it worth something.
You fly in bob with heinkel, he is my squaddie. The 110s are operated to their strengths in the event, They arent locked to the bombers as escorts like they were in the real BoB.
Look at the results of the 110s. Their k/d is higher then the rest.
Why because the are flown to its stregth. Same with any plane. When I fly a d9 or e4 or a a5 in the main I know what I can do in each plane. I fly to its strength and do ok.
Thats the same with each perk plane. If you dont wanna fly the way it was designed to be flown and if you get killed because you think you are in some super plane well thats on you.
Take a temp into a furball and mix it up. Get aggressive and dont worry about losing your perks or if the guy who shoots you is laughing at you. After a few kills you will see what the plane can do. Same with the f4u-4.
You will be like GD. how did I make out of there.
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Originally posted by Wotan
you have posted in numerous threads that this or that perk cost to much. If cost is irrelevant they why the posts?
You say you dont want the unperked, then why the posts?
How about this, you just up a plane and have fun?
Whether its costs perks or not. Why worry about f the plane cost you XX perks. Just up fly like you would anything else and have fun. If ya die, well ya die. So what if it cost you 35 perks instead of 70?
You only fly "more conservative" because you are worried about the perk "value". Perk points in and of themselves are meaningless. So you hold umm because if you take off in a perk plane you are some how bound to fly it in a way that its no fun.
What posts?
I think you're thinking of someone else. I want the perk-tags to be gone, not for the prices to be changed.
Spending 10minutes climbing, another 10 looking for someone at that alt to fight, and then another 10 heading home isnt much fun. Getting gangbanged by everyone within 3000yards isnt fun. I don't care about losing perks, anymore than I care about dying when I'm flying a 190.
Having someone constantly chasing you, eliminating the ability to do anything but a high-alt hit and run is not my idea of a good time.
If you fly a perk plane, you WILL be gangbanged, the only real advantage is that it gives nearby friendlies the chance for an easy kill or two. If you fly a FREE plane like it was a perk plane, you will do MUCH better than in ANY prop-perk plane(excep the chog, which is a perfect example of how the gangbang tags cripple the perk prop-planes) This is the failure of the perk system. The chog's kill ratio would go way down if it were labled "F4U1C".
Note that the tempest is an exception, since it is fast enough to run from even an la7.
Results of the poll I posted a while ago(I could post a new one if anyone would like):
(http://www.innomi.com/polls/pollres.png)
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categorically deny that people treat enemy aircraft with perk icons any differently than any other enemy aircraft?
You completely misunderstand why I don't like perk icons.
Of course they do karnak. They want to be the one that gets the "perk plane" as if its the great white whale of aces high.
But unlike you I see that as more an advantage then a problem.
I also believe that if flown properly any of the perk planes in ah are more then a match for any other.
But that said even when I am in a non perk plane people try to kill me. It doesnt bother then and it doesnt bother me if they try to kill me in my perk plane. In fact they fly more "stupid" going after the perk kill making it easier for me to kill them.
I target specific planes in the main. Planes I prefer to kill more then any other. I fly 190s. I know there are folks who want to kill 190s more then any other. I take none of it personally. I am not upset if I get killed in a perk plane any more then any other.
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Ok wotan,
What is the proper way to --edit-- FIGHT IN the F4U-4 in the MA environment, without having to worry about being gangbanged?
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Karnak you simply messued up and did not take care to see if higher cons were coming in. I always try to disengage if I see hig enemy coming in to the fight because no matter what plane they fly if they are much higher they can dive in fast .and take away my most valuable assest - the ability to disengage. And you can run away from from pretty much every plane within the 6k icon range and even farther if you look at the dots and dar.
So yes you basically diddlyed up. Your incredibly rude response tells me you see yourself as aas some high skill superior pilot who is beyond fault and criticism. Certainly not the humble average level, low time pilot with 230 perk points you so often present yourself as. Why else would you snap so hard at my criticizm, especially after I explained to Mark that any smug attitude in my first post was a clearly a joke. I tried to give you a solution that worked for me in a very slow plane, and you attacked me. As foolish as this may sound on the BBS I'm surprised by your attack and will not offer your superior piloting skills any more tips in the future.
Go to hell.... And take your faultless flying with you..
So in the end you basically suck as pilot.
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Wotan,
I agree with you that any perk fighter (except perhaps the F4U-4 and F4U-1C) is more than a match for any non-perk fighter. I disagree that any perk fighter is more than a match for multiple non-perk fighters.
GRUNHERZ,
I am far, far from that. You're attitude is exactly what you accuse me of. You're so certain of yourself and so full of yourself that you don't even understand what I said.
There was no way to both fight and avoid the higher cons. It was not possible. I had to choose one or the other. I chose to fight.
Following your instuctions I would have turned and run before I ever engaged. Boy, that sure would be fun. What fun it is to take a super plane and run away. Wheeeeee! So much fun.
Got it?
Oh, I know that in your Aryan masterhood you'd have simply shot them all down if you'd managed to force yourself into such a dweebish, easymode thing as a Spitfire (the horror), but not all of us can aspire to such lofty heights of perfection.
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P-51's and LA7's and P-38's and F6F's and everything else gets gangbanged too in AH. Being ganged up on is not unique to the perk planes.
Heck, I'd venture to sugest that Zekes or FM2's in AH get ganged up on a lot more than any perk plane does.
When I die (and I die entirely too much), it's usually because I get ganged up on, not unlike Karnak's example (I'm busy with one or two CONS while another higher one comes in). This has nothing to do with the ICON and everything to do with the nature of the MA--the ICON is, at best, a red herring.
The way I see it is some people are convinced that the ICON will cause them to be ganged up on in a perk ride....then when they DO get ganged up on, it's automatically blamed on the ICON regardless of the fact that a non-perk plane in the same situation would usually face the same fate. Well, not exactly the same....if Karnak had been flying a P-51 instead of the Spit 14, he'd have just been chased down and killed by the LA7 instead of out-climbing it. Had he been flying a Mosquito he'd have probably died even sooner.
The important issue IMO is the inherent limitations of the perk system. Getting ganged isn't the real problem; the problem is getting ganged in a perkplane often means you might not be able to fly it again for a week (and this is a problem if you love that particular plane, like Karnak and the Mk.14). This is where the advantages of having sepate arenas become apparent.
J_A_B
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JAB, While it is true that you'll get ganged no matter what you fly, it happens more so in a perk plane. The difference is that, people will drop what they're doing to chase down a perk plane, or go after the perk plane instead of another one who they have a bigger advantage over.
Nobody will fly past an easy to kill p51d, to get to an easy to kill n1k2 And I seriously doubt anyone would go after the p51d, when there is an f4u4 behind it that would make an easy kill. (By easy to kill I mean, the plane is in such a position to almost guarentee the kill.)
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Karnak youre being a little salamander because you feel I insulted your uber flying skills.
And dont go pushing any Nazi bs on me you little toejam. I see you are in some sort of Japanese squad now and they had the same and worse mentality, policy, prejudices and warcrimes, and the worst treatement of POWs of anyone.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Wotan,
I agree with you that any perk fighter (except perhaps the F4U-4 and F4U-1C) is more than a match for any non-perk fighter..
You dont think the perked corsairs can hang 1-1 with any non-perked ride?
If thaty is the case, I gotta know, Respectfully, what planet are you originally from? :)
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
You dont think the perked corsairs can hang 1-1 with any non-perked ride?
Sure they can. However, what makes them different is that thier performance is very similar to non-perked planes. (p51d, and f4u1d) Both need to remain perked because of thier rarity, but the gangbang tags on the f4u4 make it a difficult plane to survive in. The perked nature of the F4U-1C, without gangbang tags is what contributes to it's high kill ratio.
I'd like to see what the kill ratio of the la7 would be if it cost 10perks.
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Originally posted by Innominate
I'd like to see what the kill ratio of the la7 would be if it cost 10perks.
Me too..
Off topic question...I wonder if HTC can model collisions with enemy A/C as a 60 minute penalty after a grace period for new pilots?
Gainsie <---rammed far too often by .....well, enemy planes :mad:
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I don't like the perk tags at all.Why can't we try this out in the CT to see how people like it?..
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GRUNHERZ,
You didn't insult my flying capabilities (or my lack of them as the case may be).
You came off as an absolutely arrogant love muffin and are now upset because you got called on it. Mark Luper called you on it before I did. If you can't take that kind of crap, don't start it.
You know I know that you are heavily in to the Luftwaffe superiority mythos and see yourself as such. That is what I was ridiculing you for. Nothing Nazi, just seeing yourself as some paragon of air combat, who can toss off the answers with flipant remarks and insulting terms.
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Originally posted by Innominate
JAB, While it is true that you'll get ganged no matter what you fly, it happens more so in a perk plane. The difference is that, people will drop what they're doing to chase down a perk plane, or go after the perk plane instead of another one who they have a bigger advantage over.
I believe the technical term for this maneuver is "drag." At least, that's what *I* do when I have a large number of enemies on my tail, and a large number of unoccupied friendlies nearby. Your mileage may vary.
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Originally posted by runny
I believe the technical term for this maneuver is "drag." At least, that's what *I* do when I have a large number of enemies on my tail, and a large number of unoccupied friendlies nearby. Your mileage may vary.
I've found that counting on help from someone who doesnt say they're activly helping you is suicide. If you have squadmates nearby that will work, but the vast majority of players are content to watch you get shot down, if it means they'll get an easy shot.
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And I explained my motives to Mark very clearly. I hope you read my response to him before you engaged in this tirade of name calling. If I was really so arrogant and bull-headed I wouldn't care about "being called for it", or anyone's concerns about my comments. I meant what I wrote as a play on how you responded to Wotan's criticism - turning around your contention that Wotan's perk arguments were less valid because he was an experienced and/or above average pilot. I just proposed your comments were invalid because you were, by your own comments and admissions, a below average or average pilot- at least one who flew so little and/or so poorly he had trouble gaining perk points in AH.
However I can see how you missed my point in your arrogant Japanese militarist fanatic zeal.... So I apologize. :p
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I did read your response to Mark Luper. It was effectively stating that you don't have a realistic view on what the average is.
The average player in AH gets about a 1/1 kill death ratio. I do a bit better than that. Wotan does better than me (based on his statements of his mission results I guessed he was better than his stats showed him to be) and thus does not have a perfectly balanced view of the perk system. Somebody who claims it is easy to land 15 perk points every flight is obviously out of touch with the average player.
For every boastful player I have seen laud himself about how many points he gets and how easy they are to get, I have seen several players asking how to land more than 2 or 3. To me this says that for many, if not most, players it is not easy to land 15 perk points.
I stand by my contention that the average player cannot simply earn a Tempest each night, nor even come close. To the average player a Tempest means many night's work is being put up into the gangbang, and being average they are far poorer equipped to survive the gangbang.
FWIW, you seemed to have persisted in missing the point that I can fly any aircraft I wish, whenever I wish. I do not have excessive difficulty earning perk points in AH.
I ignored your Japanese quip because it was irrelevant.
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If you dont have trouble earning masses of perk points then why do you whine about perk costs or tearfully state that you only have 230 perk points as a part of your argument.
If you are so good at gathering truckloads of perkpoints in all these planes you so skilfully fly then just go about doing that and please stop whining.
However, I do think its unfair for many low time pilots who have trouble earing enough perks quickly to fly the fancy late war monsters and I would love if HTC could give us one night every month when perks were free to all so everyone could at least have a go at them.
I don't understand your incositency here. At one point you are the poor downtrodden average skill player who has difficulty landing sorties much less perk points - then on the other turn you have no problems earing perk points.
So which is it? Are you the average pilot struggling to maintain barely 200 perks or some aerial magician who has no trouble bagging them by the bucketload?
Now on tho this....
"Karnak is my left wing commie sob buddy here and I was giving him bit of a hard time since he made a big point that Wotan's skill level gave him an unrealistic perspective with the perkplanes. So I just turned it around at Karnak as a friendy remark of course.
Innominate I wish I found more of those La7s that just stop chasing me after they begin closing, it just don't happend that often. They keep coming if they are closing the gap. My point was to set up your attacks so that they dont have a chance to even begin to close. Then it doesnt matter how they behave or what you are flying. "
So where in this do show a lack of touch with the average AH player? Don't tell me posting tactical suggestions based on my experience is a sign of that? And why the hell do you think you are more in touch with them, or is that just a part of your standard left wing propaganda training that crept its way into our discussion?
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GRUN,
The only problem I have with perk planes (and I have stated this consistantly, in every thread about this subject) is the perk icons. It makes the perk planes no fun to fly for me. I don't try any harder to stay alive in perk planes than I do in free planes (I always take off with the intent of landing at the end of the sortie), but others try much harder to kill me. I don't think that the Ta152H-1, Spitfire Mk XIV or F4U-4 perform that much better. It is easier to survive in a free aircraft that people don't make the extra, often suicidal, effort to kill than it is in a perk plane which only has a marginal performance advantage.
In a one on one the current setup is fine, but it is almost never a one on one.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think not.
Your lack of touch with the average player was inferred from your stated backing of Wotan's position. It has absolutely nothing to do with your, or my, politics.
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I think you are being a little unfair to Karnak.
So which is it? Are you the average pilot struggling to maintain barely 200 perks or some aerial magician who has no trouble bagging them by the bucketload?
I think he probably falls in between, and I think most people do. I'm somewhat of a rare case I think in that I fly relatively high-ENY planes, thus earning lots of perk points (and Karnak.. it IS true.. on an average sortie I usually do get around 10-15 perk points, at least if I land it- Wotan isn't exagerating) but I've got absolutely no desire to spend them. I simply don't enjoy flying the planes we have as 'perk planes'. I'll probably start spending some of them once the Me-163 comes out, because I'll use that to kill bombers that are near a base, but I don't spend the perk points I collect on a regular basis.
Even if the 'gang-bang' tags were removed, I wouldn't be flying the perk planes, because I don't like flying em much.
The real problem with collecting perks is basically just human nature (and the way the ENY values are determined). Most people just want to fly and have fun, but all the fun planes have really low ENY values. In some rare cases, people 'fly to live', and thus want fast planes.. but all the really fast planes have low ENY values to. So, if you are flying a 'fun' plane like the Spit or N1K2, you get punished for it because those planes see more use (thus pushing the ENY values down). Same thing applies for the really fast planes- and even the really fast German planes have ENY values that are lower than their usage would otherwise indicate.
So if you like flying one of the perk planes, you have to fight in a plane that isn't very fast, and isn't very good in a furball. Even though the ENY value might be really high (like I consider 35 really high, so the 190A's fit), the average pilot isn't going to simply rack up the perk points, because the planes are HARD to get kills and land them in.
Oh, and Karnak.. this is how I get so many perk points (and I know you probably don't care, but I'm having trouble sleeping lol, so I may as well type). I average 10 to 15 perks on a good sortie. By good, I mean I take up a 190A5 and get 3 or 4 kills and land them, that is 10 (for 3 kills) or 15 (for 4) perk points. If I am flying the Dora or the G-10, I almost always get more kills per sortie, and the additional kills mean I get about the same number of perk points even though the ENY value is a lot lower on the Dora and the G-10.
Heck, the other day I earned something like 50 in 2 sorties in the 109G-6. One of the sorties was just about the most intense sortie I've ever had (and again, I know you don't care lol, but it is a very good story). I was flying this 109G-6 around the north side of the Baltic map. We were fighting the Bishops, and there was a pretty good little fight going on. I arrived around the outskirts of the fight, and I'm looking for some easy Spit or N1K kills (and those are real good for the perkies too) when I see one poor Knight getting just gang-raped by 5 Bishops. Being a moron, I yell over Vox "Hang on, I'm on the way!", and I dive down to help. Of course, I get there just a bit to late, and they kill him right as I get there. There was an La-7, a Spitfire, an F6F, and a 109. There was something else, but he ran away and I didn't get a good look at him. I come blazing in at about 400 mph, and the La-7 and Spit turn to HO me. The F6F and 109 didn't see me coming yet, and they turned away from me. I went right at the La-7, tater gun a-blazing. Ka-POW! Off with your wing. "Damn nice shooting" I said to myself. The Spit was right behind him, so I adjusted my aim and Ka-POW! Off with your wing too! At this point I'm happy. I've gotten two of the marauders, and I'm ready to die now. I turn back to face the 109 and F6F. The F6F flashes across my nose in a flat turn. The tater gun belches out more 30mm death, and the F6F loses his tail. At this point some tracers start going past me, coming from my right. That pesky 109 was coming in hard, looking to avenge his comrades deaths. I turned into him (and at this point I had gotten kinda slow), and we did a couple revolutions in a scissors. But, he makes a mistake and flies out in front, and catches a tater round in the cockpit for his trouble. Four kills in the matter of 30 seconds or so. I was hit with some sort of delayed reaction from the adrenaline that got dumped into my system in that sort little melee. To top it off, an La-7 bounces me on my way back to base, and after a short squabble HE catches a little Tater lovin. I bounced an unwary Spit after that, and RTB'd with my 6 kills. I got 20 perk points for that (and I think I got a style bonus or something :)).
My next sortie I got 9 kills (had to re-arm twice) before I landed, and I got 25 perks for that one. Next sortie I got 4 or 5 before I really persistant Spit ventilated my tail feathers in a small furball. I had a pretty good day that day :).
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Urchin,
I don't doubt he was telling the truth.
The last Mossie sortie I landed I got 8 perks for, killing a P-38L and Spitfire Mk IX. Two more kills and I would have been right in there, sadly there were no more enemies to kill.
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And not a word on my beautiful sortie that I put up for your reading pleasure! Gee, thanks. You could even say "I don't care Urchin, don't post any more stories".. that'd be SOME sort of feedback.
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Yep go fly the G6 or A5 and the perks will fall into place no problem. I found out the single 20mm in a G6 is even better for multi kill sorties than the 30mm. I have gotten a good nuber of 6 and 7 kill one ammo load missions where I landed with 45 20mm still left but out of fuel. That was a nice surprise.
Karnak if you are having trouble getting or keeping over 200 points try the G6 or A5 or C205 they will help a lot unless you just don't fly often enough.
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Urchin,
That was a great sortie. It was late and I was tired. Sorry.
GRUN,
I think its that I don't fly often enough that keeps my perk bank at low levels.
Fw190A-5 and Bf109G-6 are both fun fighters.
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Originally posted by Innominate
Ok wotan,
What is the proper way to --edit-- FIGHT IN the F4U-4 in the MA environment, without having to worry about being gangbanged?
just like all the score potatos do.... stay in a friendly crowd, overwhelm the enemy.... with the perk plane you should easily be able to steal all the kills you'd ever need/want.
:D
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"I think its that I don't fly often enough that keeps my perk bank at low levels."
Then there isn't much that can help you get many points no matter what or how you fly. :( I would really hope HTC gives a free perkplane night once every tour so we can all fly them.
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I'd like to have the ability to give perk points away. I think that'd be cool, since I never use mine. Or maybe you could trade em. Like, here are some fighter perks, give me some GV perks.
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I think wotan doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.