Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Sachs on August 28, 2002, 08:20:58 PM
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This is starting to get old now. I can safely say 95% of my flights have ended abruptly now in the 190 series. Dora seems the radiator goes first 1 ping and bamn rad hit. 12 flights today 11 ended with abruptly with either radiator or engine oil hit. I am not saying this one day but it has been happening more and more frequently. What gives? My personal favorite is the P-51 that hits me at D 1.3 from behind no less "1 ping Mr Sulu" and radiator hit lol.
This is getting old along with a lot of the other issues that have crept up with 1.10. I don't mind games with problems and I also give the parent company ample time to fix the bugs and what nots. But instead of adding new things how about fixing the old first? Constructive criticism is all :p
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I do agree. I have flown the A-8, and A-5, and I think the 1-ping-rad. hit is gone from those models, but I think the Dora still suffers from it. I think about the Dora, like I think about the 262. In the 262, I know any ping will kill my engine. In the Dora, I know any ping will kill my rad. If possible, I would like this looked into....
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Euhmm, the A-series Fw 190's have radial engines which are air cooled. They don't have radiators.
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C202 seems to have the same kind of effect... seems like I lose my radiator to the first hit about 75% of the time.
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I agree Sachs
I drive 190's 99% of my online time.
The 1 ping radiator gone is a very very old problem.
I'm also surprised how easy the ailerons come off the 190.
90% of the damage I take is either the radiator or one of the ailerons (many of em from long distance hits, 1-2 pings).
Were the 190 ailerons that weak?
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funny thing after i posted this got in dora 1 ping 50 cal d 1k from 6 and radiator hit. Sorry but this is getting old real quick. Wish HTC or pyro would comment on this reoccurring thing. I'm scared to fly the dora past my base now.
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gave up trying to say this in another thread because the first thing someone said was stop whining.
im sick of trying to discuss LW machines in here.
Last 2 tours ive been flying allied planes because i got sick of endless frustrations with LW planes.
some of the things you have with LW:
engine oil hit the majority of the time in dora
much higher rate of wingloss on 190a8/f8 when used for jabo
20mm cannons do not hit with anywhere near the force of hispanos
E retention in zooms is far less for 190s and 109s when you compare entry speeds for any dive
during climbs watch the climb needle closely and you may well notice it is affected by wind and changes of direction far quicker than many other types
Engage auto level in a banking manouver and see how long it takes to level and you will find it is up to twice as long before the plane settles.
heres some moments that showed me the difference.
after flying dora/hurri c/p40e mostly this tour i have had far far more engine damages in dora than the other 2 and i have to say more wing damages.
using a 190a8 with 780 20mm i attacked 4 formations of b17s. by the time I had shot down 3 single b17s (and it was good solid hits each pass with little waste i had 150 rds left)
trying the same with hurricane c a few hours later i managed to kill a formation in TWO PASSES! firing 60 odd rounds per pass (had 40 rds in each gun left) they popped like balloons!
whether this is a net lag issue i dont know but it was a real eye opener.
Ive had several occations where ive dived HO in dora vs a typhoon or p51 or similar and we have jinked to avoid ho but they have not only turned 180 degrees afterwards but proceed to follow me up in a zoom! even though ive barely moved off the line of my original dive.Ive been above niks in 109s at high speed dived in and shot then zoomed up only to find these planes have turned and seem to be slowly gaining.I have an idea that LW planes have some sort of hi drag?? I read books like 'wings of the luftwaffe' by eric brown and it constantly refers to their excellent zoom and dives, at best AH 190s are mediocre zoom climbers especially compared to yaks/la5s/niks/spits/p51s.
but of course this is whining isnt it.
well like i said ive got sick of trying for changes and now i try to fly Allied planes in order to relieve the frustration and get some easy kills :) Its a shame as i used to be in JG54 which flew LW only and i think these sorts of squads add a lot of colour to AH and it means the other countries get to fight german planes regularly instead of the constant nik/la7/spit fights.
Flying allied planes makes life alot less frustrating and you really do notice the difference.I dont care so much about it now as ive well and truelly made my mind up things are wrong with AH's LW planes.
They are not so bad that they cant be used effectively thats for sure, as i can still use them pretty well but they are without a doubt more frustrating for their damage models and their sometimes perplexing performance.
and good luck trying to get that radiator 6 oclock hit fixed.
p.s. and while youre at it try shooting a p51d in the underside near the radiator and see what gets damaged or how easily its damaged.This was a notorious weak spot and should be reflected in the model.I once read a pilot comment on the p51 being used in korea. He said even a farmer with their antique rifles could hole the p51 radiator in low level attacks.There was even a silly picture next to it.This would be a good test to see if the modeling for damage is , well , fair? Im going to try it out.
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It seems that on any inline engine fighter plane the coolant system is the first damaged .
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HTC just please do not fix any Lw plane , realy , i will realy hate to se all spit,nik,la, and .... drivers in the nice 190 ,
remember the time when 190a5 WAS PORKED , many easy drivers ride them
only 1 thingy the old roll rate , that i mising, or maybe other planes roll to well ? beter fix the other planes
:D
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quote
"mysupergermanairplanedosentfl ylikeithinkitshoulditgetsdama gedtoomuchandicantshootdownal liedplanessofixitbecauseimget tingfustrated'
shut up and fly you luftwhiners, whats getting "old" is the constant whining about german planes getting damaged too ez , not shooting down allied planes, not turning fast enough, not flying fast enough, time to face the truth, german planes were crap.
some people think germany had the best pilots, best planes, best tanks , best guns , best ammo, best generals, best tactics.......me and hitler both wonder how you lost the war so badly with the best of everything
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what about a LW only arena for you guys ?
you won't anymore complain about the other planes as you will fight LW plane in your LW plane
Sound's that I've found a clever solution about your problems :D
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How's asking to look into weirdness of damages being received in a particular area only in average cases, the same as mentality for asking "best of everything"?
Besides, when the "P-38 tail boom lobby" was going on, we didn't see many people ganging up and chanting "whiner.. whiner.. whiner.. whiner..".. did we?
Hey, not only the P-38 received tougher tail booms, and the booms don't fall out with the first few pings, but also they got their whole plane toughened out. We see P-38s survivng a 30mm ping sometimes.
...
I'm sure the P-38 folks didn't show us any "quantitive info".... or "chart"... or a "graph" concerning "how often the tail booms knock off with few pings". And still yet, they got their entire plane toughened up.
So, what's so different in people asking for fixes concerning "how often the radiator knocks out with a few pings"?
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my P51 gets it's rad hit all the time, i want it fixed
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What Kweassa said.
After "just a few" p38 whines, their plane got fixed. No data was thrown out, no charts, no nothing. Just a few people saying "p38's tail is tooo weak."
Now I have seen some threads about LW planes where tremendous amounts of data have been throw out for people to read....and nothing.
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Maybe HTC has found relevant info in the case of the -38 by themselves, without confirming it here, and in the case of the lw planes they have info more trustworthy or of equal reputation contradicting the data presented to them; in any case, it is doubtful HTC would do this on purpose, which would imply going against everything they say they believe in (etc).
So, it is a waste to see real threads with real info discussed seriously for HTC to see polluted with the "whine-this whine-that"-"my favorite plane better than yours" that are off subject and oppose even more the feedback process than said pseudo"whining".
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John, they aren't complaining about radiator hits. They are complaining about radiator hits in the Dora from enemy aircraft on their 6 O'Clock and generally from a long distance out. Having a radiator shot out in a Mustang by someone on your 6 makes sense, since the radiator is in the rear of the aircraft. However, on the Dora, the radiator is on the nose between the engine and the prop. I seriously doubt you would be able to shoot the radiator out on the Dora from a 6 shot, unless your shells went through the pilots armor, the firewall and the engine first. Even taking trajectory into account for a long distance shot, I still don't think you could get enough of an arc to hit it, as it is smaller than the cowling it is in and for it to have the right arc to hit the radiator it would have to clear the top of the engine then dive down to the radiator. I would say it's possible from a high or low 6 shot where the AOT was 45 degrees or greater, but the long range six shots into the radiator just aren't that plausable.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily say HTC is ignoring that. They have a ton of stuff to do on their lists and it get's prioritized. All this is a huge deal to you guys, it isn't necessarily at the top of their list. that isn't to say it isn't important, that's just the way it goes sometimes.
As for the Fw-190 not holding E as well as many other planes, that actually makes sense when you consider it's wingloading and how much drag it would develop during maneuvering under load when compared to aircraft with more efficient wings. You have to consider that diving in then pulling G's to pull back up is going to bleed more E than an aircraft which has a more efficient wing. However, I'm not saying it's completely accurate as I myself haven't tried to compare it to actual data. Comparing two different types of plane in that regard though, is truly comparing apples to oranges. You really need the info for the Fw-190 in that regard.
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Can't speak to the 190 radiator question; I don't fly them.
As to overall durability, in my opinion.. and it's just an opinion.. they seem to be "average" overall. There's some harder planes to kill (the Russian ones seem to soak up .50's) and there's some easier planes to kill (zekes for example) but overall the 190's seem to be about as tough as most of the rest of the plane set. Just impression with no film or anything else to back it up.
I can speak to the P-51 coolant/radiator question. I do fly those. Anyone who thinks the P-51 doesn't lose the radiator quite easily just hasn't flown them very extensively.
Lastly this:
Hazed: gave up trying to say this in another thread because the first thing someone said was stop whining
I read that thread from the beginning. You got TWO answers before you deleted your post.
ok, I know I'm gonna get blasted here but (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62267)
Here's what they said word for word:
From Viper17
Hazed:
so whats going on? bug or intentional model?
Viper17:
I wouldent touch that one with a 50 foot pole.
[/b]
and from ra:
ra:
fly 190's a bit, and I haven't noticed this.
[/b]
Those are the only responses you received before you edited your comments out.
My question is... which one was "the first thing someone said was stop whining"?
I'm confused.
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Ok lets see tonights sortie break down.
3 sorties in seafire 1 rad hit not bad
1 sortie in A6m no hits registered so no rad damage
7 Sorties in a Dora 2 deaths do to stupidity. 2 rad hits from 6 position again was able to ditch thank god i dont travel that far sometimes and 3 safely landed only lost an aerilon.
1 sortie in G-10 no damage.
This needs to be addressed, I know I am nto imagining this as I fly the dora quite a lot.
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John9001:
me and hitler both wonder how you lost the war so badly with the best of everything
You sound like a real expert on WWII history, :rolleyes:
I don't know who you are, never met you in AH.
Have you ever flown LW planes in AH?
I suggest you do it for a tour and compare it to your precious Allied ride. Than read a bit on LW plane specs and compare them to the specs of your precious Allied ride.
You might be confusing 'whines' about aircraft specs with 'whines' about 'why can't my 190 outturn a spitfire' . Could be me, but I heard nobody ever complain about that. LW drivers know what the limits in performance are of their LW rides and we adapt flying accordingly. What does disturb us is that the few things these planes were good at can not always be found in AH.
Ever occurred to you that if the LW planes are not modelled correctly that less and less plp will fly em? Must be real fun to fly Allied vs Allied only in the future :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hazed-
using a 190a8 with 780 20mm i attacked 4 formations of b17s. by the time I had shot down 3 single b17s (and it was good solid hits each pass with little waste i had 150 rds left)
trying the same with hurricane c a few hours later i managed to kill a formation in TWO PASSES! firing 60 odd rounds per pass (had 40 rds in each gun left) they popped like balloons!
I don't think you can compare ...
The hispano is obviously more performant I agree
But were you making you pass with the same closure rate with the hurry ? I don't think so :)
About radiator hit :
I've switched to a Typhoon/yak dweeb combo to the 190 (all mark) but when I'm hit in a 190 I'm I've PLENTY of time before the engine stop ...
Time I've NOT in a Typhoon/Yak :( (if your rad is killed you have to land ASAP !)
Why ?
if you really want to protest about radiator switch 1 full TOD to the Typhoon/yak combo ... the next TOD you will be quite happy of your 190...
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Apar, i won't argue with John, i have studied history since i can remember and if i learned one thing than that:
History teached in the USA is US-History and has more or less not much to do with the history teached in the rest of the world.
Most people in AH from the USA have quit often a better non-US view on history, especially of WW2.
But there will always be a couple of US-citizen here that will never doubt the public legend of "how-brave-US-soldiers-with-ultra-modern-high-quality-equitment-won-world-war-two" (sorry but i cant resist to be a little sarcastic in this matter, have gone through it to often).
They forget that WW1+2 were not won by high quality material or high quality soldiers, but rather by economical and human resources.
Sure design quality has some impact but it will never be as great as the impact of the ability to reinforce and to supply your fighting force.
As the best example you can take the Sherman tank, it is at best a medicore design, at best 5 Sherman were worth a german Tiger or Panther, but hell the US-Economy could build 10+ Shermans for every Tiger or Panther germanies industrie could bring to the front.
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Agree with what Naudet and Apar says, and of course with Hazed and Kweassa and other fellow LW friends who have shown evidence about many things but never got anything fixed.
My little Ta152 comes to mind :rolleyes:
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They forget that WW1+2 were not won by high quality material or high quality soldiers, but rather by economical and human resources.
Exactly Naudet, :)
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I dunno what's going on, really.
If the P-38 was fixed because HTC has discovered a big enough reason to fix it and decides not to disclose it, my question is, why would anyone not want to disclose just exactly how things were fixed?
All this hush-hush mentality going around HTC is understandable, but sometimes, its just too much. :(
....
Some things and issues like the 190 roll rates.. questions on the ammo load of Bf109G-2(I brought this issue up personally)... SpitI/109E-4 roll rate comparison... the 190A-5 Sea Level speed discussion.. Ta152H-1 max speed discussions..
Really, I've seen my share of people whining around, and I'm usually the one who does not hesitate to bash unreasonable or mis-informed whining. But all of the examples above had good reasons, data, charts, extensive discussions and etc etc. Many of them were brought up some long versions ago.
Guess how the people would feel when seemingly one bunch of guys "whine" and receives a "quick fix" for the plane of their choice, but when they themselves request for a correction by throwing in vast amounts of data and discussions to prove them right, no answer for years.
There could be good reasons to why HTC decides not to fix some things, and sometimes, it sure'd be nice to know WHY. They can at least tell us what seems inappropriate, or what data is needed to prove it right.. or why they don't feel up to fixing it. At least people have something to talk and think about.
Sometimes, watching the A/V forum is like watching people talking to a brick wall..
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Totally agree Kweassa!
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If you think that the P38 was fixed after a short time then you obviously didn't see Tak's whine campaign that lasted for months. Oh and the P38 weakness was attributed to a bug in the model, not a conspiracy. Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong... ;)
Maybe post in the bugs forum that dead 6 shots giving rad damage is a bug, using pics and film, rather than just claiming that your ride is "porked"... This is not an emotional issue, it's not personal, try to help HTC fix it.
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Originally posted by Blue Mako
If you think that the P38 was fixed after a short time then you obviously didn't see Tak's whine campaign that lasted for months. Oh and the P38 weakness was attributed to a bug in the model, not a conspiracy. Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong... ;)
Maybe post in the bugs forum that dead 6 shots giving rad damage is a bug, using pics and film, rather than just claiming that your ride is "porked"... This is not an emotional issue, it's not personal, try to help HTC fix it.
Word.
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The p 38 is a flying tank and we cannot kill it with 2 rounds 30mm
Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeee!!!
FW's are pretty though many escape after being hitted
WheeeeeeeeeWheeeeeeeeeee!!!
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Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong...
The LW ' whine' posts didn't start out like that Mako.
Yep, after 2 years of complaining plp tend to get frustrated, and then posts end up like this, ;)
P.S. I totally agree with Kweassa.
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The Typhoon loses it's rad from single all aspect hits very frequently. As does the P51. Actually, so did quite a few Hurris during the BoB scenario last week ;)
One-ping rad hits are far from being unique to the D9.
Vladd
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It's strange, all there was on the con pictures were 30+ year old men..
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Originally posted by Apar
The LW ' whine' posts didn't start out like that Mako.
Yep, after 2 years of complaining plp tend to get frustrated, and then posts end up like this, ;)
P.S. I totally agree with Kweassa.
I'm sure they didn't and I've no doubt that there is truth to what the ppl are saying... however, I was just trying to point out that maybe the same ppl are getting a bit too emotional about it. It certainly doesn't make me want to change anything when I see posts like hazed's comparing apples to oranges (ie. hispano armed hurri's to 190s).
I personally think that the graphics model of the P51D sould be updated but I don't let that frustrate me when I see Spits get skin changes/new aircraft added.
Accept that these things take time and it's only a game, it will never be perfect. Just enjoy blowing stuff up, who cares if your Ta152 can't go 17mph faster at 40,000ft or that your dora's radiator is weaker than it should be. Blow stuff up and relax, changes will come sooner than you think that way... ;)
Enjoy the gamefor what it is, an APPROXIMATION of reality. If you were strapping on a Dora for real and flying into harm's way I'd be more concerned but nothing bad can happen to you behind a monitor so just relax mon.
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Originally posted by moot
It's strange, all there was on the con pictures were 30+ year old men..
Oh, most of them were even older than that. But with the exception of one I don't see any posts in here by guys that were at the Con. Go figure.
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Ps, the Ta152 alt modelling is all wrong not just in speed. It's climb modell is wrong at all altitudes, that's no small errors either.
Sorry BlueMako, but how can you possibly compare a plane skin with a plane FM? It's like day and night.
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I don't think changes come falling out of the sky Mako, ;)
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Wilbus and Apar you are both correct. I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I was trying to say that maybe a little more tact and/or perspective required...
Just try and enjoy the game for what it is, it aint worth an ulcer.
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Inline engines suck.
Just fly the 190A's. :D
Anything with an inline engine seems to be a flying radiator to me. Theres the rear-mounted radiators, the cockpit mounted radiators, dont forget the wing mounted ones!!
Are radiators really that sensitive to damage? Who cares? The best planes alll use radials!
BTW, this post is strictly tongue-in-cheek.
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lw pilots cant be coerced into liking brown starfish.
if its wrong its wrong. I dont pretend to know myself and stay out of these threads to avoid looking more foolish then I already am.
As to other planes or other bugs/overlooks well if you have post them but dont bring the "well even if xxx is wrong so is yyy".
Most of these guys, including myself, could careless if yyy explodes when you hit the "e" button. Thats up to the people who fly those planes to bring up those problems.
People in this thread fly plane xxx. They see something wrong with "xxx". Its that simple. Whether they whine it, scream, or whatever, who cares. Its up to HT to decide on that stuff.
Is it necessary to jump into a thread and argue with someone who you already labeled a whiner?
Whats that make you? Either you like the smell of freshly stirred toejame or you cant get enough of that brown starfish.