Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on February 16, 2001, 02:33:00 PM
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Complaints about score systems have been around in virtually every game I've ever played on-line or off.
When I began playing on-line flight sims, scoring would come up on a regular basis. Complaints would range from kill stealing, ditching, captures, bailing, discos, killshooter, assists or anything else you could come up with... its all been discussed before.
Despite all of these arguments, wether for or against, I could always resine myself to the understanding that it didn't really matter. Score was simply there to placate egos (mine included) and really didn't amount to much else.
Does the perk system change that? Are all these "WHAT! ONLY 2 PERK POINTS FOR XXXXX" actually relevant? It seems they aren't as easy to dismiss as all the age-old score arguments.
AKDejaVu
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your answer is obvious and the real crux of the whole situation at hand. Like you, I have seen numerous score systems implemented that would all reward one style or another. You could squeak that your particular brand of playing or "skill" was not fairly scored... everyone had a good point.... just as they do now.
Difference is... with score... you can not care and mean it. Some actually never did look at their scores. You used what part of the scoring system was useful to you and ignored the rest....With the idiotic perk system all that changes. There is a tangible punishment to not behaving in a certain way. You lose the right to compete equally if you don't tow the line.
Other factors of course exist... Points did not modify behavior much since most peoples natural inclination to have fun overode their desire to rack up a lot of meaningless points most of the time. In a perk system, having the kind of fun some people enjoy will finally bring on the punishment it deserves. now, let's get ta raisin' that barn.
lazs
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The other thing to consider is that with the Perk System will come late WWII planes in numbers. As a result early to mid war planes may be left for use only in historical scenarios.
Remember that the pilots accumulating the most perk points are typically flying mindless jabo attacks on undefended barracks complexes.
The track record is that they fix things pretty quick around here. The real question is, what will the fix be?
Ranger Bob
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Originally posted by RangerBob:
The track record is that they fix things pretty quick around here. The real question is, what will the fix be?
Ranger Bob
reduce the "attack" and "bomb" points given by attacking City , Factories, or HQ. to 25% of what they are. And putting the "attack" points into the "Bomber" cathegory. Wont hurt either.
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AKDejaVu,
The problem is that, as I understand it, HTC will use these tours as a basis to judge how fast people get perk points and thus how expensive to make perk units. The people who are doing the milkruns for mega points are distorting the curve for guys like me who can only play for 3-5 hours a week. I don't want to spent those few hours mindlessly attacking buildings, just like I can in offline mode, so that I can hope to score enough points to get my Spitfire MkXIV.
In a tour and a half I have gotten 160 fighter perk points by flying the midrange planes like the A6M5b exclusively air-to-air. If guys are getting half that per sortie in F4U-1Cs by attacking buildings and have 1000s of perk points already, HTC is liable to price perk aircraft so far out of my reach that I'll never get one.
I don't like that and that is why I feel that the scoring is a problem.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by RAM:
reduce the "attack" and "bomb" points given by attacking City , Factories, or HQ. to 25% of what they are. And putting the "attack" points into the "Bomber" cathegory. Wont hurt either.
Hmmm... lessee..... attack points into the bomber catagory.....
hmmm... what kinda kite do I fly when I go on attack runs..... OH YEAH! I fly a FIGHTER!
You may now return to your preschool class (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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One of the strongest reasons for the perk system is exactly what some of you would undo- convincing people to attack resources.
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Actually, I simply asked a question and left it up for discussion... I didn't mean to imply anything either way.
I can't remember ever checking the hangar to see how many perk points I received on the previous sortie. Actually, I usually log on and go to the hangar specificially to see where my perk points are simply because it doesn't occur to me to check it on-line.
I don't have a "this should be worth more than that" complex. I haven't really participated in the threads. I have, however, read all of them and wondered just how relevant each particular complaint was.
I just don't think its as easy to dismiss the arguments anymore.
AKDejaVu
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AK, I think we are pretty much the same on this issue. I see positives and negatives to it, and really can wait. What I was referring to was what I perceive to be one of the plus sides to perks- getting people to attack resources. It will have to be handled carefully, or you will lose that part of the strat system.
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Kierin,
The strat resources you are talking about are the troop training facilities. They are usally used this way after your side's lines have advanced past them. Further, the point values for them are so high that high ammo fighter, such as F4Us, Fw190s, N1K2 and P-47s can land 70 point sorties.
As a comparison, read this:
Originally posted by TheWobble in his "Awsome Rook city Raid....BUT.." thread:
Created a mission, had 5 17's and 5 or 6 p51's as escorts including NATEDOG, SUPERFLY, Ripsnort, and others, the funnest i have EVER had, I shot down a 190 on the way in and destroyed 15 objects in the city, then fought my way back out again to a PERFECT landing, entire mission took 45 miniutes
Perk pointe earned: 4.00
There is a bug in the value of the troop training buildings that many players are exploiting. I'm not saying that the buildings should be worthless, but I don't think that straffing some buildings in a 10 rank fighter should score you 8 times the points that somebody gets for a good air-to-air mission (I shot down 2 F6F5s, 1 F4U-1C and a Bf109G-2 in an A6M5b early in Tour 12 and scored about 8.5 points, this was while performing the valuble service of defending the fleet) in a 30 rank fighter.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Heh, I have 100 perk points now.
I don't care how many I have, and I use them only to see if scored mucho points in a fight.
Others might have 2000 perk points, but for me, it's like with K/D ratio - something you use for YOU, not for a perk plane chase.
It's no biggie to me - perk planes will just be like a dessert after a good meal - one can go without (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up space"
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Karnak-
Oh, don't get me wrong- I know the points will have to be adjusted if this is going to work.
You probably notice I have played both sides of the fence on this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I want what is best for the sim, even if that means I am not in it. That is why I think we need to curb our (at least, some of the players') desire to totally reduce the point value of resources to nil. By all means, make hitting any resources lucrative, and the deeper in the enemy homeland, the more lucrative. This should help satisfy the strat side, as it will help to be coordinated for such strikes. It will also aid in achieving the all-so-important "win".
I think perk points should be increased for any goon or M3 capture. Voila! No more cries for goons unanswered. 20 points for a successful run will have squads climbing over their own backs to close and capture bases. Total Blitzkrieg. What's better than that is it will encourage tactical and strategic play.
In my mind, the only useful reason to employ the perk system is it provides a carrot to those that are indifferent to helping in a cause, but might do so if there is a lucrative reward in the end.
Potentially this helps the furballers in a couple of ways: it brings the fight to the forward bases in a real hurry, and; it will help ensure that all sides will push for complete victory faster- after all, 20 points for a capture is going to be very tantalizing... This will help end the detestable practice of blowing away a country's resources to a minimum, locking down to the lowest number of fields, then vultching the hell out of the only two available runways.
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Then instead of reaching a certain point value to receive a perk plane what if you reached a certain milestone within a catagory.
Such as a medal system, but instead of a medal you get a perk plane ride.
Many stats that are tracked by the system could be used to create a milestone to be reached. A milestone that everyone can achieve even with limited time fighting or bombing. It might actually encourage some tactical planning. I know I shouldn't say naughty things like that. People who don't like the perk idea can continue to furball and not worry about it. Lazs wouldnt have to give his points away, unless one of the catagories were dragging 15 planes in one hop (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You could do a lot of things to reward people. You could give a perk plane to those that have joined several missions. Perk ticket to those that have reached a certain killstreak, kill to death, field captures, bombing streaks, and so on.
You could even give the CO of squadrons a perk ticket every month to honor one of his pilots for doing something special.
Drex
[This message has been edited by Drex (edited 02-17-2001).]
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I like those ideas, Drex. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Interesting ideas Drex.
BTW, not all of us "furballers" dislike the perk system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am an a2a guy, I just like to keel stuff. You can all have your "strat" stuff, I just want to shoot down planes. Still, I think the perk system is great. It's going to add a lot to the sim IMHO.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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I am die hard A2A guy also. And lumpying those who like to kill in mass engagements and succeed with those who are lemmings is my fault. You will most likely find myself in there too, but reversing, snap shooting, targeting my 3rd kill before I take the shot on the 1st one. Wide spectrum of success within the word furballer. Poor term to say the least.
What should be rewarded in a furball? How about good SA, great geometry, quick killing, and landing.
You could mix k/d with k/time for a catagory that would reward mass engagement types. There are those that suck at mass engagements, and those that don't.
Furballing can be rewarded too.
Drex
[This message has been edited by Drex (edited 02-17-2001).]
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well... I just disslike having unbalancing planes in the game every single day with some having em and some not. As anyone can see... The arguments about what is a "worthy" skill are heated enough now. imagine when they actually put the damn planes in the game.
It will be an uber plane sim for some and not for others... it cuts out any chance of introducing early war rides. Plus, some people, myself included, don't care to fly uber planes against mediocre ones in a supposedly fair arena. I am kinda surprised that so many do.
score is fine... The more categories tracked the better. everyone can find a categorie that they are concerned with. It's when you start rewarding some behavior and punishing others that you cause a rift. And that is exactly what the idiotic perk system does.
Perk planes kill parity, choice and action and cause rifts. Many people who fly AH and don't even read this board or know anything about the idiotic perk system are gonna log when the action dies and they are facing uber planes on a regular basis. Flying long lonly sectors to get to a fight and getting B&Zed by some dipshit in a fantasy ride is not a formula for fun for a lot of people.
lazs
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oh and drexie.... I won't be draggin 15 planes anymore with the idiotic perk system.. There won't be any place in the arena with 15 planes at least, not 15 planes and a fight too. Even if I did manage to drag a few... Some dipshit in a fantasy plane will swoop down and steal the kill from em. We won't be able to outrun them guys.
You will have to earn your kills for a change... No more "easy life" paid for with the sweat of poor ol fat, bald,harmless lazs!
lazs
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Hehe, but lazs we have the fantasy planes now. I don't see them affecting our wounded robin strategy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Drex
[This message has been edited by Drex (edited 02-17-2001).]