Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on April 25, 2001, 08:41:00 AM
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I think it allways boils down to what is wanted out of a sim. I believe that i, and a lot
of others are perenial newbies... we have lives that are busy and full. we get on to get
away from hard work and organization not to add to it.
The learning curve is steep in flight sims... maybe steeper than any other games. New
people are daunted by the complexity. The old vets and people who... well, who get
very into sims... master everything by spending countless hours on line they come
within a hairbreadths of being burned out and demand even more complexity to keep
them interested...
Thats all fine but there is only a small core of these guys... I don't really care about
these flabby vets in any case. Truth be known.... most are just looking for an
edge...an advantage, anyway....I enjoy the newbie a lot more. i wnat new blood and
lots of it. I want a game that has perfectly modeled FM's and damage etc. but that
has a lot of action and variety and parity.
Those are the things that attract me and those are the things that bring in new guys.
HA's and allied vs axis and complex, punitive strat are all the bane of a fun flight sim
for all but a core of dedicated types.
Look at what the newbies are saying.. they feel that they are "flying around for half and hour" doing nothing. or being gangbanged by guys who won't fight em... they may be exagerating a bit but that is what it seems like to them and they are right. The perks and the late fast movers and the lame-o strat have all finaly culminated in a very unfun way.
lazs
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Then there are those that are thankfull for all the newbies running around. They live to prey on them and their dweebiness. When offered the chance to go up against experienced vets on equal footing, they shy away.
And how much people do/don't fly has nothing to do with that.
AKDejaVu
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Was thinking on answering you, lazs, but It does not worth it. The very same dead horse as ever. Please refrain yourself and stop putting 2 bags for all of us. And please do not stamp "FUN" and "NO FUN" outside each one. For a guy whose life is busy and full should easily understand there is no such thing as white and black, and there are only different shades of grey.
Your position is crystal clear, as it is mostly the one of the rest of us. Give it a break and move on. You are not the beholder of the truth, so realise it, give your opinion, and then, after your opinion is given and your position is clear, stop.
I don't know the rest. I will appreciate it.
Cheers,
Pepe
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DUDE!!! YOU SMOKE CRACK TOO? (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/funny/rolleyecrazy.gif)
-SW
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deja... (or ak twins) where are we offered a chance to go against vets on an equal footing??? certainly not in this sim. I am only offered a chance to slaughter em in a lopsided gangbang while fighting for scraps or... being slaughtered in a lopsided gangbang. rarely is there a large fight with anything like even numbers where 'vets' are involved. The closest thing to a fight we have is the momentary fight just before fighter hangers are deroofed or, more often, the good fights that happen around the carriers. Attacking a field in force is not fighting. defending a field from vastly superior numbers of high fast cons is not fighting. So called vets or no.
The newbies are not easy meat in every case anyway. many are coming from other sims and do quite well in planes like the spit and such.... The main thing is that they fite. I would ten times rather fite an even number of any kind of players than use the excuse of "field capture" to gangbang. No need to fear those vets when u meet em on "even footing". In fact, I have found that they don't fare any better or worse than the newbies n such a case. Worse.... a lot of refuse to fight the second they lose the advantage. Working your way up to em just to have em run away is a waste of time for me.
lazs
Good Will Ambassador and Public Relations officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs:
...rarely is there a large fight with anything like even numbers where 'vets' are involved.
... I would ten times rather fite an even number of any kind of players than use the excuse of "field capture" to gangbang.
Hmmm...both sound like great reasons to pop into the DA for a little squad on squad action. And ya dont have to worry about anybody "de-roofing" your fighter hangars.
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I agree Laz..
Ive taken many a new guy up in my plane as an observer. Most get frustrated from the start and it help if we get them headed in the right direction. Ive found most will jump at the chance to go up with one of us.
Keep in mind that its these new guys that will end up filling spot in your Squads. It worth while to spend a bit of time with them.
Dog out.....
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So lazs, let me get this right.
First you complained because you wanted a little corner of the arena to call your own so you could furball to your heart's content.
Then you complained about the perk system: how it was going to be the end of civilisation as we know it.
NOW you're complaining that the furballs you get into are lopsided - either you are gangbanging or getting gangbanged.
So in summary, you want a furball arena with early war aircraft and no perk system with indestructible fighter hangers where there are only even numbers of opponents allowed at each field?
You'd better get coding real quick (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
At least you are consistent lazs ... always a whine (with an insult usually thrown in as well)
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Lazs, there was recently a furballing meeting in the Dueling arena. Even teams, experienced vets, only furballing. You weren't interested.
I know why.
AKDejaVu
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Rookies need careful guidance, good instruction, time in the saddle and a mission to fly. They need a SQUAD.
All of these things are here.
Anything anybody wants to do in a WWII air comabt sim seems to be here... yet constantly we hear from a VERY few non-rookies how bad this sucks, how awful it is, how the strat bites, the perks suck, the late-war planeset is one-dimensional...
I just don't see it. I do see YOU Laz, ringing the bell all the time, but there ain't no fire, no dinner and no reason to come running to fix what just ain't broke.
Give it up, homey. Go get buzy with that 'life' you have (or is it only here?) and let the damn bell alone. You've rung it out.
Hang
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The Game
AH in itself has no charachter. Alas, tis only a game. However, the people who participate in the game (community) give a perception of the game. It's the community which reflects upon the charachter of the"game".
I've met a lot of great people in this community,to many to mention as a matter of fact. Conversely, I've seen more insults and inuendos thrown around here in 8 months of playing AH then I'd seen in almost 7 years of AW. Don't get me wrong, AW had it's problem children also, but in the 8 months I've been here I've been suprised at the amount and intensity of some of the disagreements discussed on the boards and over channel 1. why? I sure as hell don't know.
Maybe you've noticed over channel 1 the banter of former AW players to one another even though they fight on opposing sides. You'll notice a BAAAAAAAAa between whels1 and myself, a <S> to Westy and so forth. this just saying hello, not having been in a fight. Maybe the difference in the ages of the two communities? AW being around a lot longer developing that kind of community? Hell, I dunno, but there sure as hell a great many good people flying this sim, and there are a vociferous few who choose to show their ignorance on a regular basis over the airwaves and on the boards.
I've been asked by new players to the game "Is it always like this?" I tell them no, and explain that this happens in every on-line community that has participation. I've had a former squad mate come here to try it out. It's difficult enough to come and learn this sim well, without being challenged vocally when you're new with, ya dweeb, this and that.
In air warrior if someone used foul language, and no we weren't the Police, we would come down on them from all sides for the simple fact that youngsters played the game also. they can learn foul language in the real world, let the virtual one be what it was designed for, fun and enjoyment, not the suffering of some over stuffed ego berating someone for his ineptitude or mistakes. In essence I'm saying no one really "policed" the arenas or boards, the community would really take care of itself. It had it's faults for sure, but interaction within the community was more fun, not as serious.
If we want to attract and keep players, and develop this community, it's like any other neighborhood, we have to "keep it up". who wants to pay 500K for a house, when the house next door is worth 30K? It lies on us, not HT or Pyro. We are not children and shouldn't have to be treated as such. Threads on the boards should not have to be locked for the simple fact that they probably shouldn't have been posted in the first place! I know 6 year old children that have more tact and common sense then some of the posts I've read on these boards and the banter on channel 1.
closing(long winded) in some areas this community has to grow up......individualy or as a whole. I fortunately let insults and such pass off my back, new users take it as a personal affront and don't come back. It's about time players, as hblair did in previous post come to the front and voice their opinions, and maybe we should do the same on channel 1 when another idiotic statement is directed at someone for just participating in a dam game.
fell off the soap box
Hajo <G>
[This message has been edited by Hajo (edited 04-26-2001).]
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Actually that's a good point halo. I remember in WB when someone got out of line, the whole arena would come down hard on the person regardless of team affiliations.
TBH, I have never had a problem in this regard with AH....although I don't put too much time, maybe 20 sorties a tour tops. Regardless, I haven't seen much of this "bad stuff" that everyone is talking about on this BBS. Coincidence? I dunno. Everyone to me seemed pretty cool actually. Maybe we're making a mountain out of a mole hill here.
Not to hijack this thread, so to lazs; How can anyone argue your point? Your only discussing your own personal preference, none of us can really speak for the majority. So fair enough, point taken. My feelings are different.
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lazs, i see what u are saying, but thats in my eyes that gets people in hear. this is not an eazy game at all, and thats why this game sits on a pedistle hi above all other games, thats what cought my eye realy, its a big challenge and it aint for everyone. if ya got the time and the will stik around for a while get good and thats it. for any newbee that will take about three or four months
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/jato.JPG)
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pepe deja and hang... I know your positions.. they are "crytal clear", Course, that doesn't stop you from repeating em over and over tho does it? Perhaps "lazs" should have been a clue that you need not read the thread?
deja... u have no idea what I want or why I want it apparently.. All you would have to do is actually read what I write and not between the lines tho. I have said over and over that I don't like seperate arena's but... If there is nothing going on in the MA (boring) I will probly go to the "furball" nite or whatever it is called and try it. I certainly can't imagine being worried by the type of "vet" I would find in there. After all.... they are only furball dweebs right? I certainly don't want to hear about being afraid from the ak poster twins tho.
jekl... a fite with 12 red and 3 green (or vice versa)is not a furball..... I will settle for indestructable fields at three fields in the center but better would be, fighters available till the field is closed.... the perk system is just as i said it would be.... (to paraphrase)"either it will ruin every sortie by making us dodge uberplanes or they will be so rare as to be useless" The later has happeneed with a twist... New fast planes like the D9 and lag and 51B have been added unperked. The arena has shifted to late war timidity.
so to summarize jekyl... I want the fields to be open long enough for a good fite (and reason to have one) to develop. one with fairly even numbers and.. I want those good fites to be so available that no one (especially newbies) has to run out a tank of gas in vain trying to find a decent fite.
lazs
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after some thought... i guess what it boils down to is who ya hang out with. I have talked on RW and in person with dozens of guys and have yet to meet anyone who thought the current killing the fighter hangers "strat" didn't suck. I have yet to talk to anyone who didn't think that flying around doing nothing didn't suck. I have yet to talk to anyone who didn't agree that just cause u seen large bars in a sector, it meant that when you got there you would find a decent fite. Now, I've seen people disagree with me on this board but I never see those guys in the arena anyway. We are essentially flying different games. Most i know wouldn't even bother to use the current strat "field cature" as an excuse to gangbang a few guys dumb (or bored) enough to dribble in to defend. Most I know don't want to bother to climb up to 15-20 k to get co e with a small group of alt weenies only to have them run away after a pass or two.
If the strat/field capture were more even handed it would be more attractive for new guys and the large group of perenial newbies as well as the vets and burnouts.
lazs
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Laz, I believe I found your new handle, please read about yourself here:
Laz attitude check (http://www.just-pooh.com/eeyore.html)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
~very gloomy~
~very intelligent~
~keeps most of his knowledge to himself.~
That's why he is very quiet most of the time and a bit depressed.
~lives in his 'Gloomy Place'
~favourite food is thistles~
~loves being remembered on his birthday and hates being bounced.
~biggest problem is that his tail keeps coming off (he has lost it many times).
~his house keeps falling down (he has to rebuild it again, and again, and again.....).
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-26-2001).]
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Oh, yes, lazs, sorry, we all know you do not repeat yourself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Pepe
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deja... u have no idea what I want or why I want it apparently
Yes I do lazs.. you are just not realizing it yourself.
What you want:- You want everything to be made easy for you
- You want to whine until things are done to accommodate you
- You want to speak for others who don't really want you speaking for them
- You don't really want to work in the arena for anything
You make vague assumptions based on personal preference. But, if you took the time to think about it you'd see just how far off-base you were. Unfortunately, you can't see anything because of all the sand blocking your vision.
What do you hear from newbies more in the arena: "Lets get the next base!" or "Darn.. the fight is over at this base!". Virtually everyone, be it newbie or vet, understands that this game is fluid and things move around. Why can't you?
It offers something for everyone without excluding anyone. Virtually all of your ideas serve only to exclude certain types of play from certain portions of the arena. Or to make certain types of play so ineffective that very few will want to do it... all in order to accommodate your personal preferences.
AKDejaVu
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Greets Hajo. <S>
hammerhd
[edited typo in sig, man am I lame]
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"That was some of the best flying I've seen yet, right up until the point where you got killed."
[This message has been edited by Hammer Head (edited 04-26-2001).]
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"What you want:
You want everything to be made easy for you
You want to whine until things are done to accommodate you
You want to speak for others who don't really want you speaking for them
You don't really want to work in the arena for anything
You make vague assumptions based on personal preference. But, if you took the time to
think about it you'd see just how far off-base you were. Unfortunately, you can't see
anything because of all the sand blocking your vision."
LOL... does this not seem a triffle pompous to even you deja? To not only think you know but to list, what someone you have never met or talked to wants? Certainly, you are not coming to these conclusions by reading what I have written?
But... sure, I want things "easy" if by easy you mean I want my games to not be a lot of work and to be fun instead.
I don't want or not want to "whine" about problems.. I stop "whining" about a problem when it is fixed.
I never speak for others who have not told me I could. No... I will go further.... who have not asked me too or encouraged me to do so.
I don't want to work for anything in the arena if the work is busy work or lame-o I pay for this game. I certainly don't hide behind some of the silliness that passes for "gameplay".. You don't "deserve" anything in a gangbang no matter how hard you worked to put yourself there.
Nothing I say is "vague" you interpret things in a very fuzzy way however.
Pepe... you are repeating yourself on telling me I repeat myself.
lazs
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deja.. an arena where fighters and bomgbers were available till the field closed would be good for everyone and not exclude fighters who, after all, are the majority. those into "strat" or fieldcapture would have nore of a challenge not less... those who wanted a fun fite would have and easier time finding one. Nothing would change for the newbie or vet that wanted to take territorry except that they couldn't hide behind a "strat" blanket and gangbang with impunity.
My proof that longer lasting fields is the answer for action and popularity is the carrier groups and the large FUN fites that develop around them. My "proof" that you are completly full of it is the stagnant buffer with people logging in disgust when the fighter hangers are de-roofed for two or three fields deep.
lazs
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LOL LAZ
[This message has been edited by NHMadmax (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Hehehe, that was a lousy try lazs. Do you remember the straw thingy?
C'mon, you can make it better that that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
On your answer to DjV, and as far it is connected with my post, let me say that it does not deal with what you want or not. You actually whine. In fact, all of us do it to some extent. What makes you different is that you speak as if your problems are every one's problems. And you speak as if what is fun for you MUST be fun for everyone. And you repeat it time and time and time and time....
We ALL (in favour and against) know what YOUR points are. And your arguments are not only lame, but distasteful. Let's take, for instance, the first paragraph of your post: Your proposition is that you (and the "lot" of others like you) are perennial newbies because you have a busy and full life. So, the ones that are not newbies had achieved their status by emptying their own life....nice on your part, apart of pretentious. Some humility would be in order here.
Let's go for the second paragraph. Why have the old vets and the people who spend countless hours on line etc. have to drop their reality demands in order to please YOU?
The third one....What makes you think we are a small core?....please, take your time and read the threads. Make some numbers too. You do not want a perfectly modeled FM. You do not want a perfectly modeled DM. You do not want a lot of variety and parity. You want YOUR action, YOUR variety, YOUR conception of what a perfect FM and DM is....not only you disguise this under your "I want the REAL model, not a lame one", you are relentless at this.
On the fourth paragraph, just a little point out. AH is a NICHE product. Or it was that at the beginning. The ones that joined the beta period, and the early stages are the ones that wanted realism. AW, CFS2, Crimson Skies (maybe a too rough generalisation here, but I hope you see the point) and the like are mass products. Their only goal is FUN. What is fun for the mass, so be it. Real....real?? Who wants real??? I want FUN.... That is: For masses (not for Mass (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).
AH is not (at least I hope it isn't) a mass product. I do not want to fly with guys that don't care at all about realism, strategy, and brain usage. I think you qualify in more that one of these cathegories. So THOSE are not the things that bring new guys. That are the ones that bring certain new guys. The other ones that you seem to hate so much might attract some other different bunch of guys. Maybe here more is not better.
Last paragraph. Again you are talking for others. And I have seen nowhere they are asking or encouraging you to do so.
As you see, a jewel in each and every paragraph of your post. And your style is consistent.
Now relax, talk only for yourself, fly, die, kill, but save us from your monochord diatribe. Leave your mantra at home. Fly the virtual skies for fun. But for your own fun. If you can't find fun here, go elsewhere. That's what any sensible person would do. But, please, stop telling YOUR points are fun, and the others are lame. You made them already.
Sorry if I look harsh. I came here because AH was a challenge, and the closest to the real thing as I could find.
ALL, and I mean ALL of us have been newbies. ALL (again ALL) of us have learned to fly more or less profficiently. ALL of us have suffered the steepiness of the learn curve. I do not want to make gameplay or realism concessions to help new newbies. I am all to help them, and I usually do. But concessions, NO. Combat trim is just beyond that line, but I can deal with it.
Finally, I do not represent anybody here, nor I do not know how many the players here thing the same, I speak for myself. And I say that I WANT realism, strategy and teamwork. For now, AH is the product that fills my needs best. We, and now I am talking for that portion of niche players (or reality nuts, whatever you want), will try to fly the closest to the real thing we can. We will certaily leave AH if it moves towards "game" in detriment of "sim". And this is not an "I quit" sentence, but one to show you that something that is fun for you, it might be not for some other. You don't quite seem to understand this.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Lazs,
Your whole "hangar down makes field capture too easy" argument is flawed. It must be due to your lack of participation in these events.
The only field that is easy to capture is the field that is undefended. A hangar may be relatively easy to take out, but that doesn't really accomplish much if the enemy has fighters over the base defending it. Welcome to re-arm re-fuel.
Basically, you only seem to want it to be more difficult for a country to capture a base provided the other country doesn't want to bother with defending it. That is making things easier for you and what you have defined as the best style of play to attract newbies. That is also a load of horse toejam.
As for everything else.. well.. it seems most everyone is catching on to your line. Not much use in piling on anymore.
Pepe... excellent post.
AKDejaVu
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Just a couple of quick questions for ya lazs....if your "solution" of making fighters available at a field until capture was put into action, would you be quiet then or would you start whining about the vulchfests that your "solution" would be causing? Also, would this not make field captures almost impossible with guys constantly spawning P-38s or B-26s on the runway to shoot at the troops?
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what pepe said
44MAG