Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tac on April 25, 2001, 05:40:00 PM
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I know my way around and how to fix HRDWR/SWR on the magical boxes, but as far as which components are better than others, I only know about sound cards. The rest im in the dark
Here's the specs of the system im looking into, anyone care to say if any of the components are of bad quality? Im keen on knowing if the MBD, RAM and monitor are good.
Pentium 4 Computer System
Intel Certified ATX Mid Tower Case with 300 Watt Power Supply
Intel D850GB motherboard - i850 Chipset
(Use memory in pairs only!!!)
5 PCI - 1 4X AGP Slots - ATA/100 Controller - 4 USB
Heavy-duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
1.44 MB Floppy Drive
104 Keyboard, PS/2 Mouse
Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
Processor Pentium 4 - 1.5 GHz CPU
Memory 256 MB (2x128MB) Rambus 800 MHz
Hard Drive 5400 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
Video Card GeForce2 MX Dual Display 32MB AGP
Sound Card Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Monitor AOC 9GLRS - 19 Inch - 0.25mm 1600 x 1200
Operating System Windows Millennium installed and on CD
Service Plans One year on site warranty
Thnx for any help!
PD: I would also like to know which vid card would be best for gaming in this system. Gforce 3? which model? radeon? hell I dunno, help me out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Buy AMD Athlon, P4 is not very good now plus I hear Intel will change something in design that will make it unable for you to upgrade to a faster P4 down the line. But there are folks here who know way more bout this than I do.
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Aye, but AMD's only go to 1.3 ghz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Here's a spec with the AMD set
Pre-configured AMD Thunderbird/Duron Computer System with DDR Memory
ATX Mid Tower Case with 250 Watt Power Supply
Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
1.44 MB Floppy Drive
104 Keyboard, Mouse
Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
Processor Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Upgrade Case Full Tower ATX case
Memory 512MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Two 128 MB)
Hard Drive 5400 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
Video Card GeForce2 MX Dual Display 32MB AGP
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Speakers Altec ACS-54 Five piece Subwoofer System
Monitor AOC 9GLRS - 19 Inch - 0.25mm 1600 x 1200
Operating System Windows Millennium installed and on CD
Service Plans One year on site warranty
Feel free to comment on both quotes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AMD is evil. They will deceive you in order to steal your soul. Don't buy their products... EVER!
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 04-25-2001).]
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I'm sure I'll get chewed on for this one...
I prefer AMD over Intel for processors on gaming systems...
You might also want to hold off another couple weeks and wait for the new GeForce cards...if not...forget the dual display, for the same price you can get the MX card with 64MB on it instead...
I know it's nice to have a service plan...but building your own system is pretty easy and helluva lotta fun...
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I have an AMD processor and an Asus board which was fairly easy to set up. Assembled the thing myself. Works OK.
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Why you say so Deja? Ive been an Intel client forever, so Im kinda lean to getting an intel. But ive heard so much about AMD performing better than intel chips.. well, lets say im confused in which one would be better for gaming.
And yes, it IS for gaming. Screw the X-Box (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Holy cow! Was just checking the DELL website.. they 1.7ghz chip is out!!!
*pulls hair*
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
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Alienware, DO IT AND DON'T LOOK BACK, 1.5 P4 and loving it.OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAA A
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(http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&photoId=nHwD6d60JNIFs2mHfM9ggHF4xY6Gy1uBBOIL0vAzWuZ4VQ!pBhaoFjvmZM4qCFICQ)
[This message has been edited by brady (edited 04-25-2001).]
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They should be putting a 300W power supply in that AMD system, at least.
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This sentence was found in the Dell website after the quote of a new system:
"Includes Windows® Millenium Edition - the home version of the world's favourite software"
That is so wrong, and so disturbing on so many levels I think im gonna puke.
anyway, look at this:
Dell Dimension 8100 Series: Dimension® 8100 Series,Pentium® 4 Processor at 1.7Ghz
D8117HB - [220-2472]
Memory: 256MB PC800 RDRAM
256M82 - [311-8426]
Keyboard: New Dell® Enhanced Quiet Key Keyboard
EQK - [310-2753]
Monitor: FREE UPGRADE! 17"(16.0" viewable) P780 FD Trinitron® Monitor
P780P - [461-2535]
Video Card: New 32MB DDR ATI Radeon Card
32MID2 - [320-5323]
Hard Drive: 20GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive
20SL - [340-2237]
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
3 - [340-2805]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® Millennium Edition (Windows Me)
WME - [313-7222] [412-1050] [420-8050]
Mouse: Dell® 2 Button Mouse
SM - [310-2758]
Modem: No Modem Requested for Home
N - [460-8920]
DVD-ROM or CD-ROM Drive: FREE UPGRADE! 16X Max Variable DVD ROM Drive
16DVDP - [313-1460] [461-1438]
Sound Card: SB Live! Digital Sound Card with 1024V
SB1024 - [313-7869]
Speakers: NEW Harman Kardon HK-695 Surround Sound Speakers with Subwoofer
HK695 - [313-1487]
Bundled Software: Microsoft® Office XP Small Business with Money 2001 Standard
XPSBM - [412-2356] [412-1200]
Norton Antivirus® at No Additional Charge: Norton Antivirus® 2001
NAV - [412-4630]
Digital Imaging Software: Image Expert® 2000,Dell Edition ($0)
DPS - [412-2108]
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3 Year Ltd. Warranty, 3 Year At Home Service, Lifetime 24x7 Phone Support
S3OS - [950-1270] [950-1272]
Internet Access Service at no additional charge: 1-Year DellNet™ by MSN® Internet Access Service[add$0]
MSN1YRP - [412-9800]
Resolution Assistant: Resolution Assistant
RA - [412-0175]
with all costs (tax, SH) included, this puppy is about 2268 bucks.
The quote on the 1.5ghz P4 system on my first post was $1962 without tax or SH. With both Tax and SH it might go to $2100 or more.
Hot damn, I love Dell. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) My old P2 300 seems to come from a good family! whohooo!
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Not a fan of the P4, due to its poor design, but if you want it, then that is all that matters.
Now, I would upgrade the Radeon 32MB card to the 64MB card as the 64MB card is clocked faster and should not cost that much more to upgrade to it.
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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I agree with Skuzz
why get such a high end system if you are only going to use a Geforce MX
Go for a radeon or a geforce 2 64mb
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Nethawk: Does your squad openly shoot down chutes?
Fatty: At times, but only if they want to.
Nethawk: Theyre scum
Fatty: cc they are scum
Fatty: as am I
Fat DRUNK Bastards
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Guys, raw clock speed alone means NOTHING when comparing different processors. The fact is that an AMD 1.33 will BLOW THE DOORS off ANY p4 in AH! This includes the 1.7Ghz. If you want a rough idea how they perform, go to www.tomshardware.com (http://www.tomshardware.com) and www.anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com) and look at the Unreal Tournament and Expendable benchmarks. Both are DirectX based games like AH. AH will be even faster on the Athlons because it makes heavy use of the FPU.
Another reason not to buy a P4 system is that the socket the CPU fits in will be changing next quarter. This means you WILL NOT be able to upgrade the CPU in less than 2 months. This fact alone should persuade you not to buy a p4 system.
A third reason is the Rambus ram the P4 takes. It costs you a TON to buy, and has such high latency that it offers no real world performance benefits over DDR Sdram.
As for AKDejaVu, he works for Intel. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) He may be somewhat biased...
(Here's a question for AKDejaVu: I heard you just got a p3 1 gig system given to you. Why didn't they give you a P4? Could it be because they know that it actually performs worse than the p3 for engineering software? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
In a nutshell AMD Athlon Thunderbirds are cheaper, faster, and more easily upgradable than P4 systems.
There are only 2 things that a P4 does very well in: Quake 3 at low resolutions, and Flask MPEG 4 encoding. In all other benchmarks the 1.2 Tbird is on par with the 1.7 P4, and the 1.33 pulls ahead by a little bit.
To be entirely honest will you though, any CPU you buy today over a gig will be so fast that other parts of the system will limit your framerates. You would need a GeForce 2 Ultra to get even a small difference in AH framerates.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Ummm TAC,
AMD is only at 1.3 gHz, but its faster than the damned P4 1.7 gHz in almost all benchamarks (and when it loses it loses by under 5%). The AMD costs about 60% the P4, and the DDR ram is cheaper than the P4 ram too.
Buying a P4 is a huge waste at this point...maybe in the future, but for now.
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AMD is evil. They will deceive you in order to steal your soul. Don't buy their products... EVER!
AKDejaVu
Can anyone guess where I work?
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Tac,
A 1.33 Athlon is just as fast, or faster, as a P4 1.7, unless you REALLY like Quake 3 in 640x480 or are going to do a lot of mpeg encoding.
Furthermore the P4 cuts its clock cycles in half if it gets too warm.
For a better appraisal, read these:
Tom's Hardware P4 1.7 (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010423/index.html)
Tom's Hardware Athlon 1.33 (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q1/010322/index.html)
AnandTech P4 1.7 (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1460)
AnandTech Athlon 1.33 (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1441)
FiringSquad P4 1.7 (http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/pentium41700/default.asp)
FiringSquad Athlon 1.33 (http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/athlon1.3/default.asp)
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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DejaVu,
Hmmm, Portland, Oregon. Could it be.......INTEL!!!? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Nah, not a chance.
FWIW, I want both Intel and AMD in the market place. Competition is good. Right now AMD happens to be the better solution, but as P4 matures and stuff is compiled for it, we'll see where it goes.
I have been struggling with myself and my finaces over whether or not I should upgrade from an Athlon Classic 700 Mhz to an Athlon Thuderbird 1.33 Ghz.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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Heck of a lot of money in my book for a computer system........
Can you hold a screwdriver?? Is your hand/eye coordination good enough to put the round peg in the round hole?
Build your own!! With the money you will save, you can buy a 19" or 21" trinitron monitor, plus this includes a higher end video card........
1.7GHz cpu?? I don't see where all this costly components(Intel)are needed to play 3D flightsims.........go check it out at http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010423/index.html (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010423/index.html) Tells a lot of what's going on
Get the biggest monitor you can afford! The 1.3GHz Thunderbird puts out better framerates than the 1.7GHz Pentium 4......
Just my 2 cents,
Thorns
[This message has been edited by Thorns (edited 04-25-2001).]
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I thought I would add that if you use any kind of "real work" software regularly, such as 3D Studio Max, Mathematica, Matlab, CAD software, etc, the Athlon is over 30% faster for those. In 3d studio max the diffence is HUGE. (Over 50%.)
If you guys want the technical reasons, read this:
http://www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm#02282001 (http://www.emulators.com/pentium4.htm#02282001)
Admittedly he is angry at Intel, but with good reason. As such he is somewhat biased, BUT he is right on all the design flaws in the P4. The P4 is probably the finest design that a company ever ruined because it would cost to much to make. There are some benchmarks at the bottom of the page here.
You might also check out this:
http://www.emulators.com/benchmrk.htm (http://www.emulators.com/benchmrk.htm)
Scroll down until you see the benchmarks running his emulation software. Guess which CPU loses...
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Deja, im seriously thinking on spending at least 2500 bucks, and im really in need of advice here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Im an intel fan already, give me an inside scoop (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
You folks bring up many good points. I quoted the Gforce 32mb because it was the cheapest card I could get with the package deal, I do plane to get myself a Gforce 3 soon anyway.
Thanks a lot for the links, Ive read them all, and learned a lot of new spacey and technical terms... I just wish I knew what they were talking about (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
One of the reviews did speak in layman's terms and 2 phrases cought my attention:
"Basically, Pentium 4 is a new design, which has some problems with today's software. Particularly office applications like Word or Excel, but also current 3D-games perform quite a bit worse on Pentium 4 than on Athlon, although the AMD-processor runs at lower clock speeds. Once software has been compiled for Pentium 4 however, the trace cache architecture is able to show its advantages. The same is valid for Pentium 4's floating-point performance. While Pentium 4's normal FPU lags significantly behind Athlon's FPU, the Intel processor comes with the new SSE2-extensions, which offer very high FPU-performance for applications that are able to benefit from streaming floating point operations and that are actually programmed or at least compiled for the usage of the SSE2-extensions. In summary you could say that Pentium 4's architecture doesn't make it exactly a top-notch performer right now, but it could perform a lot better in the future, once applications have been optimized for this processor. High clock speeds are the best way to cover up Pentium 4's performance problems with current software, which is why Intel was eager to release Pentium 4 1.7 GHz as soon as possible."
And after seeing the benchmarks on office/Quake/Unreal Tournament bar graphs (hey, at least I THINK I understand bar graphs lol) and reading the above, the P4 1.7 is a little bit behind, but its new and as the above quote says, stuff isnt being coded to take advantage of the p4's stuff yet.
Argh.. decisions are hard.
Thorns.. I am plotting on ditching the Dell monitor (17") and getting the 19" monitor I saw on another site (incredibly the 19" was almost cheaper than the 17" lol). Thanks for the advice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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HAHAHA! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) You guys have to read that firing squad review of the 1.7 P4. Only when they overclocked it to 1.9 Ghz did it barely pass the 1.33 Athlon. Now if you consider that the 1.33s are easily overclocking to 1.466 Ghz you can see just what CPU is better.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Bloom, there was one thing you may have missed in those benchmarks:
"Pentium 4 - a Gateway 1500xl 1.5 GHz Pentium 4, 512M of PC800 RDRAM memory, Windows Millennium"
was the system they were using.
Now, I DO know Gateway. As an Ex-GW tech I can tell you they use the crappiest components possible. While it may not affect intel mbd/chip/ram, im sure GW's "special" added stuff porked those stats.
Or maybe im paranoid. Do not trust GW. They will take your money and pimp your soul. Any company selling stuff that, if you ever have a problem with their components, can only be fixed via format, is gathering some serious bad karma. If you own or just bought a GW, ask GW techs/salesman if your PC has a RED OWL modem. If the answer is YES, return system ASAP. You got crap and paid gold for it.
*slides under a rock* brrrr!!!
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Tac, the argument that a CPU will be faster in the future is so flawed it's not even funny. Think about it, when you buy a new computer do you want it to be faster a. NOW or b. 3 years from now. I'd say a.
As for SSE2, I think Intel REALLY DOES HAVE SOMETHING GREAT HERE. Honestly, these new instructions do have the potential to really speed up programs. Unfortunately it will take a minimum of 1 year for compilers to catch up, and by then that P4 you bought will be totally obsolete. AMD will also be supporting SSE2 on their next processor. You can imagine just how bad the P4 will look then.
For Intel the truth hurts, the P4 is not the best CPU available today. In fact it takes a P4 at 1.904 Ghz to even TIE the Athlon at 1.33 Ghz in most of todays applications. In the DX based games, the Athlon still manages a narrow win. AH will have an even greater margin of victory for the Athlon.
I do honestly feel sorry for the average consumer who blindly assumes the P4 is better than the Athlon just because of it's higher clock speed. Clock speed can only be compared to processors of the same type. Comparing different types of CPUs based on clock speed is like trying to compare a Chevy 454 at 3000 rpm to a Honda Civic 2.0L at 3000 rpm.
I personally use my computer for more than just playing games like AH. I use it for engineering software packages. (I'm a senior in Electrical Engineering at Oregon State University mainly focusing on digital logic design.) The Athlon performs much better than the P4 for any application making use of floating point math. I have personally looked quite a bit at the P4s design. IMO it is impressive, but contains some huge flaws. I could probably put all of you to sleep detailing the main ones I noticed, so I won't. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The p4s design is really about 2 years ahead of software design when it comes down to it. By then Intel's competitors will have extended their performance lead even farther...
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Im in your experten hands bloom. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Take into account I will probably be using this new system for the next 4 years too. P4 may become better and beat the AMD, though AMD beats P4 now... ach, too much worries around (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-25-2001).]
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This dead horse demands another beating! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/athlon1.3/ (http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/athlon1.3/)
Tac, if you buy a P4 system after reading all this I'll be forced to laugh at you everytime your P38 ends up in my gunsight. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The p4 would really only be a good deal ... wait a minute, it will never be a good deal with it's current implementation.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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This look good bloom?
Pre-configured AMD Thunderbird/Duron Computer System with DDR Memory
ATX Mid Tower Case with 250 Watt Power Supply
Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
1.44 MB Floppy Drive
104 Keyboard, Mouse
Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
Processor Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Upgrade Case Full Tower ATX case
Upgrade Power Supply to AMD approved 300 Watt ATX PS
Upgrade Motherboard Asus A7A266-WA - built in Audio - Ultra/100 - 266/200 MHz FSB
Memory 512MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Two 128 MB)
Hard Drive 7200 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
DVD Drive 16X Pioneer IDE DVD
Video Card Matrox G450 DualHead Display - 32MB DDR - 4X AGP
Upgrade Sound Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Monitor AOC 9GLRS - 19 Inch - 0.25mm 1600 x 1200
Operating System Windows Millennium installed and on CD
Pass the vid card though, GEforce 3 (or any better anyone care recomend) will be on that system soon.
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"I'll be forced to laugh at you everytime your P38 ends up in my gunsight"
And what exactly is the difference with my life in the MA as it is now? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Tac, I'd submit that all "name-brand" computers cut corners. Even Dell. The truth is if you want top of the line performance without any compromises, you will have to build it yourself.
As for the Gateway system used in the benchmarks, look at how much ram that thing has. Yep, 1/2 a gig of RAM! The p4 still lost, even though it's only real major advantage is memory bandwidth and FSB speed. This just highlights other flaws in the design and the very high latency associated with the rambus design.
You guys should also realize that I also own several Intel based systems. They do make good processors. The p4 is not one of them. I don't sell computers, and I don't make a single penny by convincing people to build AMD systems over Intel. I just don't like seeing people get ripped off by clever marketing. Unfortuately all my pro-AMD posting may make me seem to be biased against Intel. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If you guys look back to when I started posting you will see that I recommended Intel CPUs over AMD's K6 series processors. Read the HTC faq file, most of that is copied directly from a post I made a long time ago. In one part I say the the K6 series of processors will never be good for AH because of their weak FPU. The situation is now totally reversed. The Athlon has a FAR superior FPU to the p4. Look at the firing squad review of the 1.3 athlon I posted above. Specifically look at the floating point CPU benchmarks. When you consider that AH makes heavy use of the FPU you can quite easily realize that the p4 can never be competitive with the Athlons for AH.
At this point it is your decision which system to buy Tac. I strongly recommend you look for non biased reviews of both systems and make your decision. I believe that if you do this you will find that the Athlon CPUS are superior to the P4 in most tests. When you consider the lack of an upgrade path for the p4, along with the higher cost of the system for me the right choice is clear...
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Please bloom, continue, I do need help here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have read a lot of stuff here that has made me doubt about a p4. Heck, I even went and quoted an AMD system (the one I posted last) and it was a toejamload cheaper and it was much better in almost all the tests I saw in 6+ benchmark tech websites I visited.
I now ask you, if you go to http://www.micropro.com/ (http://www.micropro.com/)
and build an AMD system, which one would you build?
Or if you know a better and trustworthy place to buy online (who doesnt like saving $$? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) let me know too.
You dont sound "anti-intel" btw, you giving lotsa facts backing you up, im glad you did. Im not gonna send 2500 bucks down the toilet only to have my 38 be laughed at dammit. Gotta draw the line somewhere (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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btw, new quote on AMD system with *gasp* 768 ram no vid card and some other stuff I "upgraded" from before
Pre-configured AMD Thunderbird/Duron Computer System with DDR Memory
ATX Mid Tower Case with 250 Watt Power Supply
Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
1.44 MB Floppy Drive
104 Keyboard, Mouse
Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
Processor Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Upgrade Case Full Tower ATX case
Upgrade Power Supply to AMD approved 300 Watt ATX PS
Upgrade Motherboard Iwill KA266-R - IDE RAID - Ultra/100 - 266/200 MHz FSB
Memory 768MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Three 128 MB)
Hard Drive 7200 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
DVD Drive 16X Pioneer IDE DVD
Rewritable PlexWriter 16/10/40 CDR-W EIDE (APAPI)
Upgrade Sound Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Speakers Altec Lansing ACS-45.2 Subwoofer System
Monitor KDS VS-195E - 19 IN .26mm 1600 X 1280
Operating System Windows Millennium installed and on CD
Service Plans One year on site warranty
AntiVirus Software Norton AntiVirus 2001 CD
Which is better.. the ASUS MBD or this one i've never heard of before? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
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Asus are damn good boards (I worked for a distributor selling them for 5 years).
Never heard of IWill... I'd be worried. And DON'T touch Intel boards, they are generally crap made by FIC in Taiwan for Intel.
Make sure you get a good brand of memory, it will make the world of difference.
250watt psu sounds light, go for a 300 watt at least (250watt will only do if its a really REALLY good quality one - which is rare).
I would also recommend checking out the benchmarks kicking around. Some of the benchmarks reveal that buying things like DDR SDRAM sound really good but the improvements can be marginal at times (like 5% improvement for 50% more cost).
I'd also consider going Geforce-2/3/whatever for the videocard, Nvidia are getting real matey with Microsoft and future versions of DirectX will support Nvidia chipsets well.
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Argh, now I gotta worry about RAM brand too? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'll let bloom suggest some. He's got my money in his magic wand heeehee..
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Here is Iwill's (http://www.iwillusa.com) home page, they have a column on the right that is just links to reviews of that MB. I've got a friend who has one right now with an Athlon 1.33 Ghz, it's fast as hell and he hasn't had any problems at all with it.
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darkstar
=Twin Engine Devils=
We’ve go no place in this outfit for good losers. We want tough hombres who will go in there and win!
--Admiral Jonas Ingram
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It's kind of funny reading this thread. I'm about 3 posts behind when it comes to responding.
I looked at that list, and overall it looks pretty good. I do have a few concerns though.
I find it doubtful that anybody would suggest putting together an AMD Athlon system (especially a 1.33) without using a certified 300W power supply. This would be my first change.
The next thing that catches my eye would be the Iwill motherboard. That board uses the ALI Magik 1 chipset. The Ali chipset is junk, plain and simple. There are better solutions out there. I wouldn't settle for a DDR based system that didn't have the AMD 760 chipset. The Asus a7m266 would be my first choice for a DDR system. Personally I think you are making the right choice in going for DDR Ram. It is still kind of new, but it does offer a modest performance boost at not too large a price premium. It should also be fairly easy to upgrade in the future.
I would also like to know exactly WHICH "heavy duty heat sink and fan assembly" they plan on using? They don't say.
It appears there is no soundcard listed. (Is that soundblaster live! 5.1 one you picked, or an option.) I don't like, and you don't want, integrated sound.
I also don't see a modem. Do you have one you plan on reusing? If not, I personally don't have too much to say in which modems are best. Ask Skuzzy about modems if you want one. (Don't get a Motorola though.)
I'll check out that site and let you know what I find in a minute.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Lol, I forgot to change the mbd on that quote.
My 1st choice always was the ASUS, its rated quite well in all places ive seen it.
I copy/pasted the quotes, let me put it in this post so it wont look so confusing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Full Tower ATX case
Power Supply to AMD approved 300 Watt ATX PS
Motherboard Asus A7A266-WA - built in Audio - Ultra/100 - 266/200 MHz FSB
Memory 768MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Three 128 MB)
Hard Drive 7200 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
DVD Drive 16X Pioneer IDE DVD
Rewritable HP9500I 12/8/32X CDR-W - EIDE (ATAPI)
Sound Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Speakers Altec Lansing ACS-45.2 Subwoofer System
Monitor KDS VS-195E - 19 IN .26mm 1600 X 1280
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
1.44 MB Floppy Drive
104 Keyboard, Mouse
Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
No vid card selected (think G-force 3 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
No modem (cable modem at home)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-25-2001).]
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Hmm, I notice that the only other choice for a MB is the Asus a7a266. This again uses the Ali Magik 1 chipset.
For DDR Athlon systems I currently would recommend the AMD 760 chipset. My second choice would be the Via kt266, but this chipset is brand new and likely to have some bugs that still need squashing. I know this sounds harsh, but I wouldn't accept as a gift a system with an ALi chipset in it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Tac, have you priced out doing the system yourself? I'd also save a little money and go to 256 or at most 512 megs of RAM. Windows ME just isn't going to be able to use the extra. You can save yourself a bundle by doing this.
I still prefer windows 98SE over ME, but unfortunately Microshaft is going to stick you with ME.
Do this for me Tac if you have some time - Figure out what a system would cost using the following components:
Motherboard: Asus A7M266
Memory: 256 Mb Crucial PC2100 DDR ram.
( www.crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com) )
Hard drive: 60 GB IBM 7200 rpm ATA 100
Soundcard: Soundblaster Live! Value or Xgamer
Video card: Anything with a GF2 GTS, PRO, or Ultra chipset. They are all about the same. The Asus v7700 pure is a good choice, but certainly not the only good choice.
Floppy drive: Duh. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cd/Dvd drive: Toshiba, Plextor, or Pioneer.
CD Rw drive: Plextors are pretty good.
Network card: Any 10/100 card you feel like pricing. Ask Skuzzy for his recommendation here.
Modem: Same as above. (Just don't buy a Motorola chipset modem.)
Power supply: Sparkle, Enermax, or Antec 300W.
Case: Get a good case. This you can likely find in a local computer store. Specifically examine how well you think it can be cooled. Make sure it has room for an extra fan on the back.
Heatsink and fan: I'd probably price out the Thermoengine with the default fan. (It would be noisy if you get it with a delta fan.) I think www.azzo.com (http://www.azzo.com) is supposed to be stocking these. Be aware I've never ordered from them, but I did see this heatsink there. They do appear to be reputable though. Also, don't forget to get 2 case fans, one for the front and one for the rear of the case.
Feel free to ask more questions if you want.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Oh yeah the network card... buy something with the old DEC chipset (now branded Intel).
Ya can't go wrong with these. 3Com you pay a lot for a little, and 3Com are rumoured to be getting ready to ditch their NIC business.
In NZ I can pick up the Intel based NICs for about US$30 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) cheap as chips mate!
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Asus A7M266 motherboard is 179.95 (http://www.computerstop.com/cgi-bin/csi.filereader?3ae7a0000090cf24273fc0a864650 6c8+EN/catalogs/1112)
System without the MBD is 1650
total 1829 bucks.
The A7M266 mbd also comes with integrated sound (ooh I hate that, but what can I do? hehe)
Put it at 512mb (didnt know ME didnt take advantage of ram).
I usually keep my pc box open on one side,the pc in a ventilated place. What better cooling system? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I purchased off the shelf computers for years. when the time came for an upgrade I found to my dismay that the MB could only be upgraded 33 to 50 Mhz. also, after buying an off the shelf system I almost always found myself adding memory, upgrading the video and soundcards etc.
If you are somewhat handy with a screwdriver and can follow instructions building your own system is easy, and much cheaper in the long run. You can also purchase a motherboard that you know you will be able to upgrade in the future, might take a BIOS flash, but it's much cheaper then buying a new PC. also, the towers of off the shelf systems are made for looks, not for functionality. Lots of us call off the shelf systems "knuckle busters". Hardly any room inside the case to do anything without tearing something out, skinning your knuckles etc.
do a little research, get a full sized tower with a good power supply and build your system from there. Saves time down the road, and fewer skin transplants will be needed from working in the off the shelf tower. When selecting the MB get one that you know you can upgrade down the road.
I built mine, already upgraded the processor, changed video cards etc. and flashed the BIOS. Flashing the bios can be a white knuckle experience. but by doing all the above, you save money, get what you want, and don't have to purchase a new PC in a year or two <G> saves lots of aggrevation.
Hajo
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Something that I think most computer users eventually learn is that the most important part of a PC is the Motherboard. It alone determines what you can do to upgrade it. The rest of the stuff in a PC can often be reused from system to system until it becomes outdated or dies. The floppy, cd drive, cd rw, hard drives, power supply, case, modem, sound card would be components that usually are good for a few years before they need replacing. I don't include the video card here, they are really expensive and become obsolete VERY quickly. I myself tend to lag about 6 months on video cards in my system to lessen the impact on my wallet. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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All I can say is.....
I wish I had an AMD, but I have a P-4 from Gateway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) the (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) is for Gateway.
RAMBUS SUCKS! I have spent a Kings Ransom for it and Gateway said "you can upgrade with one chip", BULL S&!T! You need two chips to upgrade RAMBUS. Hindsight is 20/20, AMD 1,2 Gig all the way. If you do go with the P-4 then stay away from Windows ME and buy lots of RAM.
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I Hate It When That Happens!
[This message has been edited by goat10 (edited 04-26-2001).]
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win98 does take advantage of 768 mb of ram and winME doesnt?
If thats the case I can easily format the HDD and put in win98 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Bloom: What is good about that MBD you said to get? Why is the other one bad? No need for details, just a general retardese language is required (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I'd like to thank ALL of you for this info, ive learned a lot and probably will save a lot of dough with it (or just use the unused cash to buy a neural interface and be the one laughing when you have my 38 in your 6 muahaha (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
<S> !!!!
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Depending on the retailer, it's possible that you can specify Win98SE instead of crappy WinME.
Go with the AMD. There have been issues with the TBird/Via chipsets playing well together, but the newest 4in1 drivers seems to have straightened that out. Concur with bloom, get the MB with the AMD chipset if at all possible. ALI sux, pure and simple.
Make sure you get 64 MB on the GeForce 2/DDR/Ultra card.
Upgrade to 300W Antec pwr supply (or equivalent) a must.
Don't worry about the onboard sound. Make sure it's disabled in the CMOS and it takes up zero resources. A lot of top of the line mainboards have it, along with their own joystick port. Just ignore them.
If you have the time, build your own (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) This is one of life's satisfying experiences, kinda like that first time in the back seat of your parent's car. It's not all that hard, and Asus has great tech support and documentation to help you along the way.
The Altec-Lansing speakers are ok. I'm not an audiophile. I have a system with A-L's, and another one with Klipsch Pro-Media's top of the line. The difference is not worth mentioning, much less worth the extra 300 bucks you'll pay. Sub woofer is important if you play with the speakers enabled. I play through a Plantronics headset (because of Roger Wilco and an anal girlfriend), so I don't even use that kick-ass set of speakers, lol.
Again, I highly recommend the satisfactory and educational choice of building your own system.
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Want a really COOL case?
Check out www.koolance.com (http://www.koolance.com) and if that didn't impress you, check out www.vapochill.com (http://www.vapochill.com)
I guarantee those products won't leave you.. erm.. warm.
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As an Intel stock-holder, I'll just have to say:
"AMD is evil. They will deceive you in order to steal your soul. Don't buy their products... EVER!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mk
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<snicker> <snicker> Hey Tac I know what would be best....
<mmmheh>
Buy a MAC!
<Mwuahahahaha>
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Hi
as it should be Hi-end system,
i would put Geforce 2 ( NOT MX )
and 7200 rpm drive ...
Gie
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AMD ONLY imho
and up the HD to 7200 rpm it makes a diff.
vid card should attach with Velcro as ya want to chang em bout every 15 min or so.
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Actually TAc, both win98 and winME don't use memory over 128 MB very well. WinNT and 2000 will use all you can give it though.
As for the motherboard, I believe Anandtech did a review of 3 DDR AMD motherboards. Just look at the bar graphs and you'll find the AMD 760 chipset will win probably all the performance tests.
www.anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com)
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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You said that you were spending up to $2500 on this machine? Well if you care enough to git the very best.
http://www.dansdata.com/pc70.htm (http://www.dansdata.com/pc70.htm)
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OhNooo
smile awhile
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As a die-hard Dell suck-up I have to say this. Dell can still give you a copy of Windoze 95 if you want it!! According to the sales rep I talked to not 3 weeks ago, they'll continue to stock Win98SE for at least for another 4 months. Once that time hits, they'll ditch 95 and 98; all you'll be able to grab is ME. Kinda sucks, but I've got several copies of 98 (1st edit, 2nd edit, OEM) and a copy of ME I plan on using as shotgun skeet.
Granted you'll lose about 15 FPS running a P4, but you could save some money and just buy a P3 933. Dell has 'em for UNDER $1,500 with 128 meg of RAM. Their warranty has some perks too; if anything breaks in the first year (expandable to 3 years) they'll send out a boot-licker to fix it. I've had this P 200 for 4 years (new P3 933 is on the way) and they've been called out FOUR times. All for the same CD ROM (Toshiba) that keeps dying. Bad brand if you ask me. Nothing else has failed, and I've only had to format it TWICE!! Once when the registry got screwed up, the second time when I goofed and tried DX-7 on a vid card designed with DX-6 in mind.
-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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some notes:
P4 is designed for DDR memory. AMD Tbird/Duron isn't. Witha P4 you get some performance enhancements with DDR; with an AMD product, those enhancements are marginal.
Hell, the stuff I 've been reading tells you to go with Via's 133A chipset and a T-bird for the best bang for your buck.
What you need to ask yourself is how much you are willing to spend to have absolutely the best thing out there, and how much having 90% of the best is worth. That last 10% in computers, as in just about every other market out there, costs around as much as the preceding 90%.
If I had to buy an AH machine today with unlimited funds, I'd go AMD T-bird 1.3 with a Via K7 whatever chipset board (asus makes the best motherboards), as much *good* _SDR_ memory as I could afford and a Radeon 64 MB DDR.
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i just buit a 1.3 athlon all iv got to get is a new vid card for it was going to gforce 3 but peaple have said its not worth the price or is too far ahead for games that are out here ...been pulling hair to decide which way to go probly settle for the g2 ultra 64 mg ..but ya never know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
yes its a k7 too
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DRILL
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If you are going to get an AMD processor and can hold out until April 30, you can save some $ to spend on other things, but I'd guess Intel will drop prices around then also...
http://www.theinquirer.net/26040101.htm (http://www.theinquirer.net/26040101.htm)
darkstar
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Ya, I will hold out for a few days, gotta wait for my credit card to get home (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Definetely getting an AMD system, ive heard a lot of people say their p4's are buggy and they get no performance boost (neighbor got himself a p4 1.5ghz.. damn fast when compared to my P2 300, but in games it doesnt do any better...go figure).
this TV out bussiness of the Gforce 2 cards.. that mean I can record stuff that goes on my PC on a vcr (like Hblair & co do their AH movies)? I know youre supposed to be able to watch tv in your pc with it. =P
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I just heard that AMD was dropping prices Monday as well. I would also expect the 1.4 or 1.5 Tbirds soon.
(Ok, I'm bored, here comes my technical speel. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
Dinger, you are horribly mistaken. The p4 is designed for Rambus memory. DDR ram is essentially Sdram (syncronous dram) that transfers twice the data per clock. Rambus is something totally different. It transfers very small packets of data at very high speed. As a result it has very high potential memory bandwidth. Unfortuantely latency suffers in the rambus design even more than in DDR sdram. This is why the Rambus memory did not greatly help performance (in fact it did the opposite) when paired to the p3 last year. It has now been revealed that Intel was trying to just get it in production so it would be available when the p4 came out. They knew full well that it would not help performance on the p3.
It is somewhat true that the potential memory bandwidth improvements of DDR sdram (ddr meaning "double data rate") do not yield a large performance benefit. That is largely because latency is worse in DDR vs regular Sdram. As the quality of DDR modules improve the performance boost will be greater. Most current software is also unable to take advantage of the greater bandwidth as well.
Rambus ram has more drawbacks than just high latency though. (For those who don't know what latency is it is basically the minimum delay in performing any memory operation.) Rambus ram also suffers from being much more costly than ddr ram (about 2x at current writing). In addition it generates a lot of heat, so much heat spreaders must be on the ram chips. Rambus also happens to be embroiled in a series of lawsuits, and as a result they are probably THE most hated computer company on the planet. Ironically rambus ram is not used in the application it is best suited for, that being video memory. Nintendo was the first company to put rambus ram to use. The Nintendo 64 uses rambus ram. In this application it is ideal. In PCs it is not ideal and I don't believe it will ever really catch on.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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If you guys are interested in reading just why the P4 sucks, go to the hardware and software forums. I'm about to post a VERY LONG article detailing why in as basic of language as I can.
It's long enough I'll have to break it into 2 parts or else the BBS will crash when I submit it.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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Which RAM is better?
DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 2.5V • 32Meg x 64
DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • ECC • 2.5V • 32Meg x 72
or
DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Registered • ECC • 2.5V • 32Meg x 72
?
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Tac,
check these sites:
http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/theguide/value_game_pc/ (http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/theguide/value_game_pc/) http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/theguide/high_game_pc/ (http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/theguide/high_game_pc/)
might help some.
F.
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Thanks furious, the AMD system they are describing is the same one im planning to build (minus that $$$ sound card and speakers.. sheesh, sb live is enuf)... which interestingly enough, is the same one bloom reccomended. Bloom, open your own Pc shop and gimme a discount man (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Still waiting for bloom meister to enlighten me on the ram question (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The very first one on your list TAC. ECC means error checking code. This is for servers and actually decreases performance somewhat by using it.
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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS
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oh my god...
http://www.shopelsa.com/product.asp?sku=1712374 (http://www.shopelsa.com/product.asp?sku=1712374)
Benchmarks:
http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardware/articles/super_he_video_shootout_10-00/9.shtml (http://www.sharkeyextreme.com/hardware/articles/super_he_video_shootout_10-00/9.shtml)
A prophet card or an elsa card? My pocket hurts...
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oh my god... double post...
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-28-2001).]
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Hi tac ,finaly i got a pc of my dreams:-) but it cost me over 5000$ and is it on Non intel base and modest 19 monitor
anyway AMD Tbird is the best
any Geforce 2 gtx ultra or pro <beter price from Ge 3 > and mostly same output
DDR ram will rule the world
if u chose DDR ram a recent MB With VIA chipset
nothing like a SB live platinum on the world :-)
512MB of DDR ram will be inaf for next 6 month after u can go higher hope prices go more down
HD IBM made very fast and big drives they turn 7200 rpm and are ata100
about DVD pioner is the most renomed
if u have inaf $ buy the pioner DVD burner if not needet any burnprof CD writer is comfortable
a solid tover with minimum 300W is necesery i use 350 W
nothing like a creative soround 5.1 3500 and it kick as of the THX with SB platinum combo
kayboard ? i broke every 12 month 1 so i dont care i change them all the time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
mouse the only thing what fom micro$soft is useful is a optical mouse (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
win me is a turd think but with time is posible tune to be stable
my prefered is the IIyama monitors extra flat trinitron got only 19 but maybe 1 day going for 22 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
the stick combo stil the old CH force FX pro trotle and pro pedals only was necesery to change all the puters after long time finaly find a heavy duty ceramic puters from
aerospatial industry ( thx to a frend who work for Alcatel satelite industry ! )
and i em hapy mostly got also happauge DVB _s cart it can recive data for download with speed who rarely go below 5mb/s !!! but modem still necesery mean clasic modem that was only my problem , nobady in last time produce recent PCi internal modem but the solution is on the way
i sugest chose the best product and not chose be prefered productor , nobady is perfect and especialy not the intel or any Pc asembler company
cya
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$5000.00? Could you list the prices you paid for your components? Very interesting..
I think?!
Thorns
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$5000???? Canadian? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I think his pc went to 5000 because he put in a DVD BURNER (he said that right?). Ive heard those were $@#$@%$#@ expensive and not on the open market yet.
I just finished making my list,
Asus A7M266 MBD DDR Support
AMD 1.33GHZ 256k cache
512MB DDR PC2100 Unbuffered Non-Parity RAM
IBM 60GB 7200 RPM UATA100 HDD
ELSA GLADIAC 920 GEFORCE 3 (check out this beauty: http://www.shopelsa.com/product.asp?sku=1712374 (http://www.shopelsa.com/product.asp?sku=1712374) )
Sony DVD 16X
Plexwriter CDR-W
MS Optical Mouse
Cheap Keyboard (Hey, I break them too lol!)
19" monitor (18.5" viewable) 1200X1280 .25
AMD Approved 300W power supply
ATX Full Tower case with heavy duty fan thingy
SB LIVE X-Gamer
Altec Lansing 3 piece set speaker with Sbwoofer.
Total: $2251 without shipping or taxes included. RAM and vid card bought from other sources (ELSA, Crucial)
Thankfully today is the last day of april, AMD should be dropping its prices now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I shiver at the thought that a vastly underperforming system from Dell or Gateway, prices at 3200 dollars!
I love you guys! <S>
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-29-2001).]
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well 5000$ us is around 30 000FF
monitor is 4,500 FF
512ddr ram is 4500 FF
MB 1600 FF
tbird 2000 FF
SB platinum 2000 FF
soround speakers 5.1 SB 2600 FF
DVD reader 1200 FF
geforce 2gts pro 2800 FF
HD 75G 1800 FF
i dont have dvd burner that cost 6000 FF !!only a
nice cd burner 1500 FF
freakin micro$oft mouse is mostly 400 FF %$^
DVB-S reciver card 2000 FF
big tover with 350 power suply 1500 FF !!!
the rest is like heatsinks and other stufss and get the price now huh !
and i hapy for now but sure not for long with the creazy changes what come allthe time
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They Memory, Monitor and Sound blaster prices seem way out of line, at least they would be in US. Hope its a nice monitor. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Memory should have been btwn 200-300usd, and $333 sound card??
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I was think on new system myself but after read this i am puzzled confussed. so i am going to stay with the one i have till it dies. and give up computers for ever.