Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on September 10, 2002, 06:36:06 AM
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While taking a dump and pondering quantum theory I started thinking about Hijacking.
First thought was will a hijacking ever occur again? I mean, I doubt any hostage will do the sit down shut up thing anymore. Potential hijackers must realize passengers will try to kill them at all costs now?
So that lead to me second thought. Awful as it is, the Sept 11 attacks were the biggest blow terrorists have struck against the USA, therefore (don't take this the wrong way) from their point of view extremely successful.
So, putting myself in their head, I'd probably look for ways to repeat Sept 11s method. The two issues for them now are the passengers fighting back and smuggling knives onboard. Then the penny dropped, how hard would it be for a hijacker to smuggle a chemical weapon onboard?
For example, could a hijacker smuggle something like sarin + an antidote onto an airliner using modified household canisters (perfume or something). Then spray the sarin into ventilation system (remembering airliners use recirculation) and self administer the antidote. Thereby disabling the crew and passengers? I ask this because of the fact that the ragheads have been fooling with chemical agents and I wondered if these agents would be detectable?
Most stuff I've seen expects chemical attacks to be the primary attack, not a means to mount a more effective attack.
What do you guys think?
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Anything is possible, the terrorists have time on their side.
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I have a foolproof way of bringing a significant amount of explosive onboard an airplane in US by even a single operative - say 20 pounds. Took me all of five minutes to come up with it and I have not been able to think of a way to counter it in a few weeks.
It's not something any wako from the street could do but for a half-decent terrorist organisation it would be a breeze.
I can't see it employed to hijack an airplane though - unless the small amount of explosive is used to blow cockpit doors open. That still leaves the question of them taking control and maintaining it while keeping the plane aloft on the way to a target. Considering very high probability that the plane will end up crashing rather than hitting target due to explosion damage, passenger action or intercept, the high number of operatives required for such an operation would be much better employed to blow up multiple planes.
miko
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I would think a chemical attack of some sort would be pretty easy to do as I have heard they allow those pepper spray keychain things on board as long as you have some sort of lock on it :confused:
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hey now dont go giving anyone ideas now.
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The antidote for nerve gass still leaves you sick and badly incapacitated. You cant move. and doenst everyone on an airliner have access to an oxegen mask? is the source for that recirculated or bottled?
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I presume it's bottled Pongo.
If anything, I'd expect something more reminiscent of drug smugglers... not the traditional digestive tract...
think surgically... instead of a baby full of cocaine....
-SW
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Originally posted by Pongo
The antidote for nerve gass still leaves you sick and badly incapacitated. You cant move. and doenst everyone on an airliner have access to an oxegen mask? is the source for that recirculated or bottled?
Airliners carry combustable oxygen generators for passengers. The air on board for the regular flight is supplied from ambient air outside after it is compressed by the engines and taken off the primary compressor as "bleed air". It is then cooled / heated as needed then used to pressurize the cabin.
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The hijackers/terrorists will just wait for us to get complacent again, if history is any teacher.
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yep to the last post.
K2
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oh, no doubt.. if its one thing Americans are good at, its getting complacent.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Airliners carry combustable oxygen generators for passengers. The air on board for the regular flight is supplied from ambient air outside after it is compressed by the engines and taken off the primary compressor as "bleed air". It is then cooled / heated as needed then used to pressurize the cabin.
Is that what comes out the little drop down masks? or is that bottled?
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bottled Pongo... those are used even if they have engine failures.. no engines, no oxygen, those masks would be useless.
:)
-SW
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I dont think the next attack will be on a plane again.
They will try different unexpected methods. Probably ships or something like that.
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Originally posted by vorticon
hey now dont go giving anyone ideas now.
i think the only thing someone here is going to do is fly an imaginary P-47 into a simulated generic building - probably by accident...never trust those 'junior members' though...but trst thats in the biz for real has probably spent a lot more time meditating on the topic...anyway it probably takes a long time to manufature fedais
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With an bit of training an hijacker could fit enourmous amounts of counterfit in their arses...
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Originally posted by Maniac
With an bit of training an hijacker could fit enourmous amounts of counterfit in their arses...
How would you know ;)
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I know an few convicts :)
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I know an few convicts :)
Did you have a....err... hand in their training? ;)
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Originally posted by miko2d
I have a foolproof way of bringing a significant amount of explosive onboard an airplane in US by even a single operative - say 20 pounds. Took me all of five minutes to come up with it and I have not been able to think of a way to counter it in a few weeks.
Miko, mind emailing me your idea? I'd be interested in seeing if I can come up with a way to stop it. Eric.Groover@lakenheath.af.mil
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you wanna smuggle enough c4 or semtex onboard a jumbo jet, enough to blow it out of the sky? easy.. take one crazy motherfu**r, who is willing to die for his 72 virgins in paradise (easy to find) and send him into surgery.. crazy motherfu**er doctor removes one of the dudes' lungs..in place, is a plastic bag with an equal amount of explosive, I'll bet you could cram about 10 pounds, at least into the thoracic cavity plus the area where a lung was removed...a simple interjugular catheter would serve as the fuse. of course the dude would be in a world of hurt but it matters not as he is going to friggen die...they wheel him on the plane as a medical case..probably getting special treatment from the attendants...then at the right time, he pulls out his catheter and lights the cannon fuse that protrudes from the caps...takes his last breath and BOOOOM..that would be enough explosive to take out a tank, let alone a jet...
not that I've given it any thought...
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My thoughts were along the lines of being able to take over the plane, not blow it out of the sky.
The reasoning being that the attack had the primary devastation, and a secondary effect in crippling air travel, forcing massive security updates, and thus a huge economic hit.
Imagine if another plane was taken over, the passengers were gassed with a lethal chemical agent, and it was crashed into another significant site? Think less of the immediate effect of devastation - but more on what would happen to air travel, not only in the US but broad - should an undetectable method of hijacking be used.
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I think that if there is another plane crashed into a landmark, it will pretty much finish off commercial flying for a year at least. You remember how skittish folks were to board a plane for months after 9/11.. I think most have chalked it up to a 'once in a lifetime' kinda thing.. if it were to happen again, most folks would say 'screw it' and drive or stay home.
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RV sales have been VERY good this past year. People do want to stay on the ground more.
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Solution to Hijacking = Shoot down the plane.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Solution to Hijacking = Shoot down the plane.
Then they win anyways.
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Errrm, I've just been thinking...(gasp!)
Has there been any plane highjacking since last year ? What Vulcan said about poeple fighting makes sense to me... I know I would.
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"RV sales have been VERY good this past year. People do want to stay on the ground more."
So are you lefties finally admitting it wasnt Cheney and Enron that caused 911 but some shady RV multinationals? :D
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Solution to hijacking? hook up each passenger to device which gives electric shock if needed.
He ain't gonna hijack anything after 50,000 volts goes through :D
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Saintaw, you're right..I think anyone that flys in a plane now-a-days is just waiting for some toejamhead to stand up and scream 'ALLAH IS GREAT' and pull out a knife.. you know that 200 dudes would rush his ass, pull his arms and legs off and beat him to death with them. I don't think anyone is going down without a serious fight from now on.
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LOL Fishu, good idea!! :D