Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Seagoon on September 10, 2002, 11:33:39 AM
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Hi Guys,
Been doing some informal research on the fighter ENY values based on the incredibly helpful FvF stats chart for tour 31 and from my own experiences. Here are some observations on aircraft with ENY values that I think are clearly wrong:
For the purpose of discussion 1=LOWEST ENY, 60 HIGHEST ENY
P40B: The lowest scorer in tour 31 and with a miserable K/D of 0.323. The current rating of 40 ENY is much too low. This planes ENY should be at least 50 and possibly even closer to 60. Keeping it at 40 will also discourage greater use, when several "40s" are much better performers.
Case in point:
LA-5FN: Came in with a positive K/D of 1.106 and was in the top 25 killers. At 40 this plane is ranked too high, it should probably be moved to between 35 and 30. Certainly to rank this mid-war plane with the early-war P40B is clearly wrong.
Hurricane 2D: Undoubtedly one of the WORST planes in the arena, and not really even a fighter (this is essentially a Tank-Hunting Attack AC). This plane had the worst K/D of any fighter at 0.302. The current rating of of 50 needs to be adjusted to 60.
Spit 1: Clearly a much better A/C for fighting than the Hurricane 2D - I believe their ENYs need to be switched.
BF110G2: This one makes little sense as well. Although it has enormous firepower, that firepower was primarily intended for use on bombers. In FvF combat the BF110 doesn't fare as well racking up only a 0.713 in K/D. The current ENY for this AC of 20 is clearly much too low, as this is actually one point lower than the ENY of the MUCH better BF109G10!
Ok those are the ones I'm SURE are wrong, here are some opinions:
A6M2: A nice little turner, but clearly meat for the grinder with a K/D of 0.442 (worse than that of the BF 110C4) I would suggest dropping the Zero 3 points to 50.
A6M5B: While frequently flown, this plane does not have a K/D that justifies an ENY of 27. I would suggest dropping it three points at least to the 30 of the Yak 9T and U.
Anyway, thats it. You may disagree with some of my numbers, but I don't think coherent arguments can be made that the 110G2 is a better fighter than the 109G10 or that the P40B is just as good as LA5FN, etc. Some ENY "tweaking" would clearly seem to be in order.
- SEAGOON
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I Agree with everything you stated!
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I agree with you in regards to the first batch of planes you mentioned. However, there is something you need to keep in mind about the Zero:
Zekes are very frequently used for last-ditch field defence. Hence, they get vulched a LOT. Thus, K/D isn't a very good indicator of how good the zeke is in the MA. Find a zeke in the MA that has some alt to work with, and it's a fair threat.
J_A_B
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agree regarding BF110G2 and LA5 at least
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with the Bf110-g2, you are neglecting its fantasitc Jabo ability. Its ENY is fine.
F.
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Hi Furious,
Respectfully, are you seriously prepared to argue that the ME110G2 is a better Jabo and Fighter than the P47D30, F6F, and P38L - all of which it is ranked better than?
For instance, let's compare the "weakest" of those 3, the P47D30 to the ME100G2 on the Jabo fronts.
ME110G2 (Jabo): 2X30mm, 2x20mms, 2X500KG bombs, and 4X50KG Bombs. (Total ordinance load: 2640 LBS)
P47D30 (Jabo): 8X.50 Cals (425rds per Gun), 1X500 LBS Bomb, 2X1000 LBS Bomb, 10(!) HVAR Rockets (Total Ordinance load: 2500 LBS + 10 ROCKETS)
The punch of the 47 is actually greater than that of the ME110 in Jaboing when you factor in the rockets (we all know which is a more popular CV Kazi as well). Certainly, there can't be much justification for setting the ME110 at 20 ENY and the P47D30 at 30 ENY based on "Jabo punch" alone. To rate it lower on the ENY scale than the F6F AND the P38L as well is (imho) unjustified.
- SEAGOON
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ENY is based on usage in the MA, not on how 'good' the airplane is. I'd have to check, but I bet the 110G2 sees a fair amount more usage than the P47.
I know thats why the La5 is rated at 40. Yea, it is a good airplane, but hardly anyone ever uses it.
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I bet there is also a question of how easy it is to get a kill in x plane. The 110G2 is maneuverable and has one of if not the best firepower/t of fighters in the game, it also has a tail gunner.
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The P47D30 had more sorties in Tour 31 AND P47D30 and BF110G2 comparison in Tour 31:
The P-47-D30 has 69 kills and has been killed 62 times against the Bf 110G-2.
I think that no matter how you cut it, the 10 point difference is going to come up as pretty difficult to justify regarding these aircraft and gets worse when you compare it to say the F6F which also has a higher ENY than the 110G2.
Still, I don't want to get wrapped around the axle on this plane alone, so this will be my last post on that topic. If you think 20 is a good ENY for the 110G2 then I'll say I respectfully disagree and leave it at that.
- SEAGOON
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Oh, I don't much care about the ENY values to be honest :). I guess it could be a bit higher, but the only other German Jabo is the 190F8, and I think it has an ENY of 25. The 110 is a better Jabo than that, so it should have a lower value I think.
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reduce eny of the spit9 and LA7...they are all over the MA and im not the only one getting frustrated by this :mad:
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Can't reduce em much more than they are already bud. I think the Spit 9s and 10 and the La-7s at 15. I'm pretty sure most people don't care a fig about earning perk points, so reducing it any more wouldnt reduce the number of Spits or La-7s flown.
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When you factor in the guns on the 110G, it's able to put out well over 6000lbs worth of damage. The various american jabos can carry comperable bombloads, and fight better, but when it comes to sticking around to finish off a town, the 110 comes out on top.
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Originally posted by Nilsen2
reduce eny of the spit9 and LA7...
Don't change em...swatten em down gives me mucho perkies in return, but DO perk em!
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When it comes to JABO (especially against GVs) I'll take the 110 over the P47 any day. I can load up 6 eggs (don't care for rockets against GVs) and still be able to use the guns against any other GVs left.
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See, I'm skeered of GVs, so I like rockets better for using on them than guns.
Drive that 110 towards a Flakpansie and a halfway decent one will kill you 100% of the time before you are even close enough to open fire.
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I don't like pointing anything at a flack that's why I like more eggs. Don't like rockets on GVs because you have to get too close to fire them. Eggs are safer (for me) cause you can release them out of range of the guns. I like having the option of the cannons to finish a GV off if I have to.
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Isnt the obj value used for ground attack instead of eny?
Your argument about eny doesnt make much sense to me.
110 is dead meat against most planes in the MA la7 spit 9 P51 will eat em for breakfast IMO.
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Object value is for just that, objects, i.e. city buildings, ack, bunkers etc. Any vehicle, be it airborn or on tracks, uses the enemy value to determine perks.