Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on September 12, 2002, 03:42:34 PM
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Hate to squeak about this map.. but I was on for about 2 hours today. In this time, I saw 1 Spit that I killed, 1 P51 that I killed, 3 Ju88s that I killed, and 1 Flakpansie that I dropped a bomb on and killed (he must not have been DL'ing porn yet, since the bomb actually hurt him).
This whole time, about 150 bases are flashing. This means that there are 150 different 'fights' going on that consist of 1 guy in a Flakpansie shooting up a field, or 1 guy trying to milkrun some installation in a flight of bombers (like the poor JU88 I happened to run into). It is absolutely boring. You can't FIGHT anyone, because nobody wants to fight. There were about 225 people on, so it wasn't like there wasn't anyone on. 225 people on Island map, there'd be at least 2 or 3 FIGHTS going on.
My last flight, I guess the Bishops got tired of their Flakpansies, so they made a 'raid' on an airbase. There were no defenders. Since I was up in the air and relatively close, I decided to fly over there and get gangbanged. By the time I got there, they had captured the base, but there were still some enemies flying around. Sure enough, 3 Spits, 3 La7s, and an F4U came slavering towards me like there was a bell mounted on the back of my plane.
I honestly don't understand it. Is it just human nature? Is everyone that plays this game essentially a milkrunning popsicle, but it only comes out on this map? Is it poor map design? Do people actually want to fight, but they can't FIND one? I don't know. I'm leaning more towards the former though, given behaviour that I've seen from all 3 teams on other maps.
I'll see you guys once this map gets milkrun to a reset.
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AKDesert is the best map period.
It's the only map that lets everyone do what they want. The furballers get thier furballs, The land grabbers get lots of space to fight over, and there is enough space that a consistant gangbang is difficult at best.
Just because other people avoid you doesn't mean they should be forced not to.
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Crapola, I hope the map is reset before I get to fly w/ the MOL tonight, I'd like to bag way more than 3-4 kills in the 2 hours I get to fly :/
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I dont get nearly as many kills per time online with the AK map. However, I do like the fact that there is nowhere near the amount of furballin and gangbangin goin on. IMHO it is easer to find good 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 1 fights with the AK map. I enjoy it.
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I've tried to enjoy this map and refrained from the bashing it got when it first appeared but I just don't like this map and often log off when it appears in the rotation so thanks for warning me I know I need not log on tonight. The only small bit of fun I've had is driving GV's around the 'crust'.
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I never have seen anything in the MA complained about as much as this map. Rightly so IMO. I thought that adding it to the rotation was fair enough. But, the sheer size of it means that it stays on three times as long as the others. The thing just sucks.
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Except for the fact that I get killed by instead of killing the lone cons I meet, my experiance is like Urchins.
I call this the Il2 map or the Civ III map.
I log when I see it unless there are alot of assasins that want to fly..which is rare on that map.
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I think people have very strong feelings about the pizza map on both ends of the spectrum. I honestly believe that there is a vast majority on one end of that spectrum however. I think HTC should conduct an “anonymous” logon poll (like they did last night about advertisement) and make there decision based on those results. That way the argument would become mute as we could all see based on the results as to how the AH “player base” really feels about the map. It would be a community decision verses a vocal minority arguing in favor or opposition to it on the BBs.
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Urchin, you want 1on1s.... you ain't gonna find 'em on any other map.
-SW
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Yea I know SW, but I'm a dweeb :), I want my 1v1s every 5 minutes or so.
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For some reason, I get way too much lag when this map is on.. Not sure exactly why, but the other maps don't seem to have any problem on unless there are like 50 planes in a furball. That is the main reason I wait for it too be reset.
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lol pongo the il2 map.......
Thats about right, pretty boring. I liked until I found myself wondering around looking for some a2a to stuff.
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Same experiences as you Urchin. Pizza is boring.
p.s. still feeling slightly guilty for stealing that zeke from ya last night sorry :)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
p.s. still feeling slightly guilty for stealing that zeke from ya last night sorry :) [/B]
Vulcan lies (a lot!)
curly
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If I play during peak hour when there are 450 people on (early morning weekends here), Pizza is the best map.
If I play during Australian evenings (weekdays for me), when there are only 50 people on and you fly around for 2 hours without seeing anyone, it is the worst map.
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Urchin sums it up pretty well.
And he speaks for many. For every one person who likes Pizza-land, I see 5-6 who hate it.
J_A_B
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It has some good points - furballing and gangbanging are reduced, just as dbeav points out. It's different but, as I said the first day I saw it, it is a quite ridiculous map, and I doubt whether we'll be using it three months hence of when I first said it. It's not really a map on which the war can be won, because there will be several little wars going on all around. For example, the vehicle fields on the outer crust provide for some GV battles, but those fields are of no consequence to the main airfields - unless you planned to launch an LVT and sail across to the mainland for a field capture, assuming you had a few hours to spare. I also note that the three central islands have a vehicle base, but no airfield, and therefore these vehicle fields are of no strategic importance, and it's a bit of a waste of time going after them.
Eventually, the map will reset, when the various wars going on reduce the Rooks to 2 bases. :D
But I really like it because it's a slap in the gob with a wet fish for all those furball/gangbang/game-the-game whiners. Their LA7s don't like the altitude, but the Jugs love it. :p :D :cool:
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I've gone from "hating it", to "it's a map". I don't think I'll ever "LIKE" it per se.
palef
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Depends who you are seeking to see more replies from J_A_B.... human mind is an evil thing, makes you see things you want to... despite how far from the truth they are.
-SW
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All I know is that maybe one guy in my squad likes the AKDESERT map. So basically this map is universally disliked among my squadmates. On the "other" newsgroup I frequent, the AKDESERT map is also almost universally disliked. Even here on the AH BBS it's lucky to break even.
So I'm not "Seeing what I want to see" so much as among the people I hang around, the map has far more "dislikers" than "likers". Whether this is a trend for the entire AH player base is the real issue, and neither of us can answer that for certain.
I'd expect the AK squad--the people you hang around with--to have a larger proportion of people who like AKDESERT :)
J_A_B
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I'm indifferent to this map, I suspect many in my squad are too... I dunno if they are or not. I don't hate it, I don't particularly like it... but it's something different, with everything for everyone, and that seems pretty good to me.
Of course, those who dislike the map will be the most vocal. If I counted the number of times I saw "I like it" vs "I hate it", yeah it would be 1:6... of course, how many times I saw it from the same person? Well, enough times to make it disproportionate to how many people really dislike it.
It's like people who hate N1K2s, Spits, or the growth on their wang. They will tell you day in and day out, "I hate this --"... While the people who like it will only say so in particular threads or whatever... but those who dislike it will start their own threads, announce it repeatedly over channel 1, or start a picket fence outside of the White House.
In the end, I see a lot of dislikes. I don't see a lot of dislikes from different people, nor do I see a lot of likes from different people. If anything, I see a lot of silence from the majority of AH players. To me, silence is indifference... so while you see a lot of dislikes, others see a lot of likes, I see the majority as indifferent...
But in the end, it doesn't matter.. but atleast it's something new... I'll start off by saying I disliked seeing the same maps in rotation forever. Many people here stated that.
Something new gets into rotation, unleash the dogs of whines.
-SW
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For me and my squad the feeling is pretty much the same....
we dont like it.
the textures hurt my eyes trying to find cons or dots or anything. (i run 1024x768 32bit both desktop and AH frame rates usually 60-80) this alone makes the game unpleasant.:(
yes we are rooks and we know the rooks are not the reset kings that the bish and knight are....but the rooks have never even been close to getting a reset on akdesert.
i cant count the times we went without dar because of the HQ bug. has any other country experienced this?
there are also some very uncomprimising base locations. tonight for example there was a port we had in the middle of the map. the nearest airfield for cover was over 2 sectors away. to have to fly 20+min to get gangbanged by 15 or so cons from the other base (a 5 min flight) away to the south is very frustrating.
it seems like all countries go through this though. 1 guy defending a flashing base and it is 5 GV's or something.
well that is my humble opinion on the desert map...
what i think would be the best map.... baltic with the high mountains of mindano.
here's what i mean (really badly though lol)
have the elements of mindano with the mountains and the gameplay of baltic
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JB73, While I realise what you are saying-- taking the elements of Mindanao is simply not worthwhile.
Before the AK map, aka Pizza, which map do you think was complained about the most?
Mindanao... and why? because it was too hard to reset/bad base locations/one particular corner (lower right) always in the bucket, and the west/north country always having the upper hand.
Which is what gave way to the Pizza map- a perfectly even map. No one side has any territorial or elevational advantages.
And that's why we are where we are today....
There is no way to create a map that no one will complain about, and so... we have multiple maps to choose from.
Enjoy the ones you do, just play or log off on the ones you don't.
Simple enuff.
-SW
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ak i guess i wasn't real clear.. sry
basically if the desert map was green like the others and a bit more organic shaped it would be great. thats what i was trying to accomplish with my thoughts.
i understand the problems with mindano but the terrain is absoutly the best in the MA. the best fights i've ever had were in the trenches there. it's so exhilarating chasing or running through there ... up , down. where is the next dip so i can get speed.... it truly is the best.
the layout of baltic i think encourages the best teamwork and stratagey. it has something for everyone also. high alt and low alt bases. some the CV can get.. some it has no affect.
thats why i tried to explain melding the 2 into 1 uber map.
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Hate it.Always have always will.When I fly the numbers are low so it sucks in that situation.It DOES have something for everyone but with the player base as it is its to big.With double the base it would be outstanding.Theres just something for everyone.Being as burpin says a Bish scrote.........My opinion is biased due to overwhelming numbers and we run away,I run to the CT when this map is up.Love those canyons tho guys.Nice work on that.Its just about 6 months to a year to early.I think the pole would be a great Idea.Put it all right on the table.:rolleyes:
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I understand on the color issue JB73, that is basically either you like light colors or you like dark colors.
There's a thing about the desert map, the teamwork/strat area, canyons, etc.. all in there.. but they aren't front line fields like in Mindanao.. which basically encompasses the entire map.
Which is my point, the 2 in 1, 3 in 1, ultimate uber map idea... that's the AKDesert (Pizza) map...
Obviously a lot of people don't like it, not much to do about that but grin and bear it...
Basically, either you can have maps like Mindanao, Baltic, sfma(Uterus) as individual maps where small cliques will hate each one, one at a time..... or you build the all-encompassing map where each clique that hated the individual map will join forces and form the ultimate clique which is all of the smaller cliques that hate particular parts of each map... but now their forces have grown three fold.
I'm not defending the map, I'm not attacking anyone for not liking the map.. I'm just stating the cold hard facts of the situation.
Now... if someone wants to take it upon themselves to mesh the Baltic map and Mindanao map together and submit it to HTC... go right on ahead.
And that's the deal, a lot of people talk about creating the penultimate map.. or take their time to complain about particular features of particular maps, or particular maps in general.. but the ball can be in their court.
Don't like the map? Editor -> Download. Map -> Create. Either HTC accepts, or they don't. They do, don't be surprised when people hate it. You can include everything everyone wants, even a hot hooker, free beer and an abundance of virgin sheep... there will be people who will take it upon themselves to complain without taking it upon themselves to replace or create better.
:)
-SW
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I like the "pizza" map as I can find fights that aren't major gangbangs when I want. If I want to be in a furball I can find those easily as well. If you can't find the fight you want on it you aren't trying.
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Pizza is the only map for the all history of AH which force me to log off often when I see it. I do not say that it designed bad, averagle it is not worse, and in many aspects better than many maps we got. But it is just too big. It is borring even when it is 400 people online, when it is 30 it is almost as good, as playing AH offline.
I really hope it is out of rotation till the time, when 500-1000 people online will be a usual situation.
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I like the pizza map. I like usually having several bases to take off from. I like knowing that whatever style of play I'm interested in, I can usually find it on the pizza map.
I don't really understand the complaints.
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Same here, Runny..... I have never been bored in the Pizza map yet. Unfortunately, it never seems to last long, though. I logged on last night for the first time since Monday as the game appeared to be down when I tried on Tuesday and Wednesday. There was the Pizza map already well on the way to reset.... no doubt that has probably happened by now.... I just had to make the most of it during my very limited time in there. Maybe next time I'll catch it a bit earlier.
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I'm with ya Urchin. I'm bored many times when pizza is on. That doesnt mean the map itself is bad (nice high alt bases nice canyons ... ! It only means it' doesnt fit the numbers in AH. Why not scale the map down to 340 x 340?
As it is now, i would suggest to take the map out of rotation - sadly.
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I like pizza when Im eating it but as a map it sucks! :D
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Perso. I hate no maps the AKDesert just have texture hurting my eyes :( perhaps because I'm color impaired ...
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yes we are rooks and we know the rooks are not the reset kings that the bish and knight are
ROFLMFAO hehe
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Innomin8,
Your own Poll ( http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=594390#post594390 ) nullifies your statement.
I find that amusing in a way, yet ironic in others.
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Haven't had much time to play lately but was on last night (Central Europe night that is). Couldn't find any action. Saw some enemies at a field, took off in a Spit I, but before I could get close to the action everyone was dead. Only a lone tank so I shot at that with my .303's, even got an assist for it. On landing I got bounced by a Typh but could avoid him thanks to 'a check 6'.
Saw some other bishops rolling up a field but there was no defense, so nothing to shoot at and I didn't feel like carrying bombs.
Indeed boring.
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Originally posted by Urchin
This whole time, about 150 bases are flashing. This means that there are 150 different 'fights' going on that consist of 1 guy in a Flakpansie shooting up a field, or 1 guy trying to milkrun some installation in a flight of bombers
IMHO this is a function of the very large "front line area" created by each country having 4 zones (1 per island and 1 perimeter).....
Its not a map function but instead a default field ownership function at reset.
The area of front line could easily be adjusted to reduce it. The extreme would be a start position where each nation has a full segment adjacent to its perimeter section.
Actually as a map its quite neat.......the only bad IMHO is the high plateaus with deep canyons triangulating each segment...... travel across this area for action is very slow due to the climbing requirement..and the field layout makes it prone to a GV combat arena...... I think I would have prefered these areas to have multiple spiky mountains and no fields at 10K!
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I love the big "Peace Sign" map. It lets me spend quality time with wife & child. As soon as I see it, I click "Quit".
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Poor Urchin. Come over here and let me give your ego a nice massage. Doh! My hands are too small. :(
Maybe I’m in a minority, or a silent majority, but I fight whatever battles the game presents, whether they be at Pizzland, Uterus, or any other location. Soldiers and airmen of wars do not get to pick and choose the parameters of the engagement. Sometimes a real soldier will have an advantage, sometimes he wont.
Now I understand that the F-word is what a lot of whiners want – Fun. But the problem is that to them, fun means only taking off and finding things to shoot at by the time they reach 5K. So be it.
But some of us want to have at least some real life immersion, by which I mean having to think about what resources are needed and exactly when to deploy them in order to win a particular *battle*, which in AH terms means a base capture. I get a few kills along the way... Some of you might find this *boring*, indeed many of you do.
I know that many of you like to get dozens of kills in an online session, but that is quite unrealistic in terms of the real WW2. (For those of you who need reminding, the real WW2 was an event that took place in the middle of the last century, on which this game is loosely modelled) The fact that you can sometimes get dozens of kills when you want to, which would not have happened in WW2 is because you are able to get those kills courtesy of an artificially created set of conditions. In short, you have learned how to Game the Game on maps like Mindano and Baltic. And, let’s face it. Those who complain about the pizza map most vociferously are the GtG-Furball-Wannabe-Whiners.
I don’t especially *like* the pizza map, but I view its appearance as the presentation of a new set of challenges, something different, and you never see me complaining about this, or any other map. I don’t *like* that map with the heart shaped lake in the middle, but I’ve got a job to do, and I’ll do it as best I can.
I struggle to imagine Urchin as a Bridge player. But I can imagine that if he were to be dealt a hand in which the highest card was a ten, and he had a right old mishmash of suits, he would throw his cards up in the air and go ”Waaaaaah!! I want a hand with lots of Aces, Kings and Queens so that I can win lots of tricks...”
...And that is my analogy for all this incessant whining about the maps.
Quit whining, Urchin. You’re wasting valuable killing time.
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Ok... I don't like the pizza map but... I can have some really good fights. Not often, and they are a squeak to foind sometimes but....
There are so few good fights in the pizza map that when they are "discovered" they are well populated. People flock to em and we have some of the largest fights ever. Last night was typical.. 79-80 great, large fight but... since the dildo worshipers has so many on they started to swarm (as is their wont)... The gangbang ended the fun for them and us. finding another good fight is problematic so...
Pizza map... if you find a good fight.. play it out. Mostly the BK's play till there is no good fights and then log off early.
I woud suggest that we cut a 3 sector swarth of no fields down near the bottom of the pizza and have about nine or 12 close fields down there for early war only planes. It would make the pizza smaller and more useful and provide a solution for early war planes at the same time.
lazs
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I've always found a way to have fun on the Pizza. But, I seem to be more creative than most.
I like lazs' idea of an early war area on the new generation of big maps. There's plenty of room for it, and it could satisfy the early war crowd without the hated RPS.
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I like the pizza map for two reasons.
1. It's big enough to host 300+ players without crowding, in the smaller maps during the evening every grid square on the border of ones country has a big red bar and a big green bar in it .
2. It's trilaterally symetric, ndisles is the only other terrain that is . If ndisles was the same size as AKdesert and had a place for GV's that would be great .
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I fully agree, and personally would love to see it cast into outer darkness. I never complain about it in the MA, as I instantly log out of AH whenever I see that bloody abortion of a map loaded.
Originally posted by MWHUN
I think people have very strong feelings about the pizza map on both ends of the spectrum. I honestly believe that there is a vast majority on one end of that spectrum however. I think HTC should conduct an “anonymous” logon poll (like they did last night about advertisement) and make there decision based on those results.
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I hate the Pizza Map, as do most of my squad.
I would like to see it destroyed or shelved.
There are some nice features in the Map, But its too big to balance off times and prime time.
The Map is 4 times the size of our other maps, its too large a jump in size. A Map of Double size would have been a better choice. (or in other words half the size of the pizza map)
Think of it like this, If the Ilses map was as full as it could be, the same amount of players on the Pizza make it only quarter full. So on a weeknight primetime, Its only got about an eight of its capacity. a country tends to be come fragmented as players rush around to put out the fires of milkrunners.
I hope the Pizza Map is a learning project, and other maps that follow will be more interesting and Sized better. Its not the features its the sizing in my opinion.
PLEASE REMOVE THE PIZZA MAP..
Thank you
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>>I'll see you guys once this map gets milkrun to a reset.<<
Urchin:
Perhaps by this time, the map has been reset, and as per usual, the Rooks were the victims. I logged on last night at 8:50 p.m. EST for my squad night, and the numbers were something like Rooks 120; Knights 123; Bishops 135.
The Bish had over 170 bases and the Nits had all but 15 bases; the gangbang was on. But not the typical gang, it was more of a milkrunning type; Hit them where they aint. I'm not fond of the 3 country setup, and have said so but, this map makes my reasons much more apparent.
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I don't understand complaints on the pizza map, well, maybe complaints about the color since it is different, but those are silly complaints in the first place.
This map is by far the best map in all aspects of the game. Best strategy, best Terrain and best base allocation. Anyone who can't find enough fights on this map are not using the map correctly. Bring up the clipboard, turn off all the icons and base numbers and zoom all the way out. The radar bars will display the sectors that have the greatest activity in them. If you want to furball, go to the nearest base and join the fun. If you want something else, like base defense, wait for a base to start flashing and up a plane. If you want great terrain, go to the canyons and look for some action there. The ground vehicle action on this map is superb.
I can't believe that people complain about a map that is different, most especially one with as many great qualities as this one. It is only one of 5 maps, and so what if it takes a little longer to reset, there are 4 other maps coming as soon as the pizza map gets reset, wait your turn! Please allow others the chance to enjoy a map that you might not necessarily enjoy. Diversity is good.
Just an example, last night I wanted to fly lots of fighter action. Our country radar was down, so I made a guess on where the action was by going to a base that other squad mates said was busy. Upped a plane and was badly raped by about 5-7 enemy planes. No problem, I upped again and stayed closer to the base this time, but had the same result, and we lost the base. I wasn't too happy, but oh well. I changed venues by going clear to the other side of the map to help get our radar back. Now this was a great place. We had every element of an air battle going. Bombers, high alt fighters, Goon runs, and yes, intense furballs. It was great! After we successful captured a couple of bases, we discovered an enemy carrier group. I took up a couple of flights of B26's and heavy fighters to help sink the carrier and capture a nearby airbase. I even had time to enjoy a few ground vehicle assaults before logging off and going to bed. I can find anything I want on this map whenever I want. Even at low user times, I can manage to find enough action to keep me entertained. The rewards this map has to offer way out weigh any complaints against it. Please look harder for its virtues.
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What I hate about the Pizza map:
(a) its too big;
(b) there's no jungle;
(c) I've found problems with attempting land invasions, whereby the LVTs will get stuck in the transition from water to land due to a problem in the terrain tiles (or something like that); and
(d) the geography is unnaturally linear. It looks too much like a game board.
What I like about the Pizza map:
(a) remote spawn points for GVs shorten the transit time and allow mutual ground support of multiple bases; and
(b) terrain favors GVs for protection against air assault;
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I keep hearing that it's too big, but when is the last time it took more than 48 hours to reset it ?
Do any other maps even have zone strat ? This map has pretty much everything, high alt bases, low alt bases, many cv's, many good gv spawn points, zone strat, canyon fighting, it's symetrical and it's the only terrain thus far that's not too small . Even when your country is on the verge of loosing the war, you can still choose a base that isn't being porked to take off from, can't do that in any other terrain either .
I think people are just looking for reasons to dislike this terrain. I've heard some pretty ridiculous ones so far. "I don't like to look at it.", "There's no jungle", "It hurt's my eyes". If a certain color causes you pain you should see a doctor becuase that's quite abnormal .
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akswulfe <
> and ty for not gettin into a "u suck... no u suck b*tch fight with me" (im not saying u ever do that i've just seen so much of that on this board) our discussion has been civil and productive imho.
just to say i dont know enough about tiles and textures to think i can make a map though i'm thinking about trying.
was thinking today about the good and bad of all the maps and 1 other thing i thought was the akdesert map has vehicle bases that can spawn 6 sectors. you can't stop that kind of attack. you cant go fly 4-6 sectors to bomb it without getting bounced which means you need to put together a mission with cover. now you need 3+ guys going to kill a vehicle hangar to stop an attack and it will be back up before you get back... if you do. all you can do is defend the base and hope the atacking vehicles give up
that's just 1 scenario but you get my idea about the problems so far and i just wanted to throw that out.
anyway and good flying.