Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on September 12, 2002, 04:41:37 PM
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I got my money on the latter.
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Me too.
Reminds me of another organisation which had a similar mandate to the UN's..the League of Nations.
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It is allready irrelevant. I see the UN as vast charity and gossip organization. All the hard work must be done by Americans.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
All the hard work must be done by Americans.
And the Brits.
I hope I'm proven wrong.
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Hardly the "do-nothings" you think they are.
http://www.clw.org/pub/clw/un/whyunmat.html
Establishing Peace & Promoting Democracy
Ending Conflicts. The U.N. has negotiated 172 peaceful settlements, helping bring about an end to the Iran-Iraq war, the civil war in El Salvador, and withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan.
Peacekeeping. In El Salvador, Cambodia, Macedonia, Mozambique, Namibia, Cyprus and Haiti, to name a few, U.N. peace operations have helped uphold ceasefires, conduct free and fair elections, monitor troops withdrawals, deter violence, create free countries, and aid political stability.
Preventing Nuclear Proliferation. The International Atomic Energy Agency has helped minimize the spread of nuclear weapons by inspecting and monitoring nuclear reactors and facilities in 90 countries. The U.N. has also advanced arms control through international agreements such as the Chemical Weapons Convention and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Eradicating Disease & Famine
Ending Smallpox & Polio. A 13-year effort by World Health Organization (WHO) succeeded in eradicating smallpox in 1980. WHO also helped wipe out polio from the Western Hemisphere.
Universal Immunizations. In 1974, only five percent of children in developing countries were immunized against polio, tetanus, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria and tuberculosis. By 1995, as a result of the efforts of United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) and the WHO, there was an 80% immunization rate, saving the lives of over 3,000,000 children each year.
Alleviating Chronic Hunger and Rural Poverty. The U.N. has provided famine relief to millions of people. The International Fund for Agricultural Development had developed a system of providing economic credit for poor and marginalized groups, benefiting over 230 million people in nearly 100 developing countries and building longer-term hunger relief.
Protecting People & Resources
Helping Refugees. In 1996, 27 million refugees, mostly women and children, receive food, shelter, medical aid, education and repatriation assistance from the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees.
Environment. Through international treaties, the U.N. leads efforts to protect the ozone layer and curb global warming. Forestry action plans help limit deforestation and promote sustainable forestry practices for 90 countries. The U.N. has helped provide safe drinking water for 1.3 billion people in rural areas, and has on-going efforts to help prevent over-fishing and clean up pollution.
Improving Female Literacy. U.N. programs to help promote education and advancement for women helped raise their literacy rate in developing countries from 36% in 1970 to 56% in 1990.
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"and withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan."
LOL I guess the mujahideen and the CIA should be told about this!
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Do you always ignore the facts? Read before you type. They helped negotiate the withdrawal of the troops. :rolleyes:
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well , if nothing else, the UN is a forum where nations can talk things over.
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So what was the uber UN negotioating team doing for 10 years while the Soviets were killing over a million Afghans?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So what was the uber UN negotioating team doing for 10 years while the Soviets were killing over a million Afghans?
I'm seeing you as a "glass half empty" kind of guy.
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"Ending Conflicts"
They didnt end toejam in Afghanistan. Maybe they helped marshall the Soviet road traffic out of the country. I can just see some UN bluehat with a whistle and lighted batton at a Kabul road crossing... This way, this way. Oh no stop. Come on now. Now its your turn.
You cant seriously be saying the UN had any impact on making the soviets leave Afghanistan and stop their invasion?
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Grun-
If the UN brokered a deal where the Russians could safely exit Afghanistan, it might have made them more inclined to do so, rather than fight to the death.
I don't know the particulars, but I can see this as a possibility.
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Sure thats possible, but what about the 10 years of carnage before. Where was the UN then. I'm sure their cherished resolutions won dozens of battles against the soviet invaders.
The UN is a joke. It has absolutely no power over the permenant 5, and has no power against weaker countries if they have a buddy among the 5 or if the USA doesnt want to get involved. The Korean war UN action only happened because the Soviet representative boycotted the meeting, imagine if he had been there and vetoed. The UN is simply too big and indecisive to be really useful in any crisis. So the US has to lead them. In other words the UN is place holder until the US decides to get involved.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Do you always ignore the facts? Read before you type. They helped negotiate the withdrawal of the troops. :rolleyes:
MT, quit confusing the issue with facts! :mad: They have no place on this board so do us all a favour and delete them.
GRUNHURTZ let me spell it out to you, so that hopefully you can understand why your arguement is incorrect.
-The orginal arguement of this thread was about how the UN doesn't do toejam.
-MT posted a list of lots of stuff that the UN does to help the people of the world as whole.
-You started a arguement about one aspect of the UN's history.
The basis of your arguement releys wholely on a incomplete, and out of context quote of MT's post.
You posted this:
""and withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan."
LOL I guess the mujahideen and the CIA shou"ld be told about this!"
The assumption based on your misquote is that MT is implying that UN is claiming full responsiblity for the windrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan.
But the full quote is as follows:
"The U.N. has negotiated 172 peaceful settlements, helping bring about an end to the Iran-Iraq war, the civil war in El Salvador, and withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan."
Note the word "helping" in this sentance. This implies that the UN helped bring about the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan.
MT, it would help if in the future you provided references for your statements.
GRUN, it would help if you took a course in logical and critical thinking.
Here is link to a site provide by Toad, which can help get you started.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html#index
Edit: Out of curiosity, how do repond to ALL the other good works the UN has performed that MT has posted about?
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I have taken a logic class and found it all BS, even looked at all those fallacies pages and others. Simply because its very easy to support any positiojn with pure logic and argument. Thats exactly what these leftist college professors do so well. But it ignores the basic truth of things.
Sure I account for all the "humanituarian" good the UN des by acknowledging its simply an overgrown charitable organization. It should restric itself to that and leave the real work and decisionmaking to America and her government. You certainly cant call Koffe Annan a leader, can you?
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Umm Grun, you are pretty much right about the UN being policing by committee. However you are way off base and completely ignorant on the rest of the facts.
Personally, I'm talking about Kiwi and Aussie soldiers who gave and continue to give their lives bringing peace to East Timor. And Aussies and Kiwis who have given their lives in the UN duties around the world.
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Sure thats possible, but what about the 10 years of carnage before. Where was the UN then. I'm sure their cherished resolutions won dozens of battles against the soviet invaders.
The UN is a joke. It has absolutely no power over the permenant 5, and has no power against weaker countries if they have a buddy among the 5 or if the USA doesnt want to get involved. The Korean war UN action only happened because the Soviet representative boycotted the meeting, imagine if he had been there and vetoed. The UN is simply too big and indecisive to be really useful in any crisis. So the US has to lead them. In other words the UN is place holder until the US decides to get involved.
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GRUNHURTZ, I'm afraid you seem to be just plain wrong, at least your government says you are.
The following quote comes from the United States Department of State's offical web site
"UN EFFORTS
During the Soviet occupation, the United Nations was highly critical of the U.S.S.R.'s interference in the internal affairs of Afghanistan and was instrumental in obtaining a negotiated Soviet withdrawal under the terms of the Geneva Accords."
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm#history
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Actually East Timor is one thing that surprised a lot. I feel it was a success because the Aussie and NZ troops actually had a political interest in the outcome.
In my country unfortunately they were not so good.
As for Afghanistan I agree its entirely possible that the UN helped administer the soviet withdrawl, they are expersts in that manouver after all. But again I ask where were they for 10 years while the mujahideen and the CIA actually gave the Soviets a reason to leave.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I have taken a logic class and found it all BS, even looked at all those fallacies pages and others. Simply because its very easy to support any positiojn with pure logic and argument. Thats exactly what these leftist college professors do so well. But it ignores the basic truth of things.
Funny you should say that. It appears you don't instand the point of logic at all. At it is: "The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning. "
Logic is a tool for finding "truth". And a damn good one at that. But I suppose we don't have to use it.
GRUN posted this:"You certainly cant call Koffe Annan a leader, can you?"
I take this to mean that you are a small dicked, pederast. What's more because I've come to this conclusion, (base on no logic what so ever)and I hold it to a "basic truth". I will now do my best to inform everyone on this board, so they never let thier children near you.
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Of course.. I'm a child molestor. But thats just an alternate lifestyle choice. :rolleyes: (BTW I bet thats coming soon, thx leftists :rolleyes: )
You can argue anything to be the truth. If you are so persitant that pure logic leads to the truth, why were Plato and Aristotle's theories proven wrong by science.
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How dare Iraq defy UN security council resolutions!!!!
Let's get em!!!
And while we are in that part of this filthy world, since we are the righteous US and don't have a double standard, we will kick out the brutal Israeli 'regime' and take over there country too since they have broken far more resolutions than Iraq.
Then we can attack China for developing weapons of mass destruction, human rights abuses and the brutal occupation of Tibet.
If it's good for the goose.......
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"why were Plato and Aristotle's theories proven wrong by science."
Such as? Really which ones? Not saying they weren't, just would like to discuss them more specifically.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Of course.. I'm a child molestor. But thats just an alternate lifestyle choice. :rolleyes: (BTW I bet thats coming soon, thx leftists :rolleyes: )
You can argue anything to be the truth. If you are so persitant that pure logic leads to the truth, why were Plato and Aristotle's theories proven wrong by science.
You are being a hypocrit.
"But it ignores the basic truth of things."
"You can argue anything to be the truth. "
If you can use logic to argue anything to be the truth, then how can it ignore these "basic truths"?
What are these "basic truths"? What system of reasoning do you use to find them?
Edit: please not that in my defination of logic the word used is validity, not truth. I used the word truth in my post in quotes, as you used it first in your post.
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1 in 4 UN members has not paid or is behind in his dues yet the UN threaten to cut off our vote in the general assemly for paying 22 percent of the UN operating budget instead of 25 percent. (we are with holding a portion as a protest to the way it is spent)
Above and beyond the normal budget is peacekeeping dues. The UN charges the US 30 percent and then they extort US equipment and supplies to be used by other members.
I was a UN backer until the US was kicked of the 53 member Human Rights Commission in a secret ballot (replaced by Syria a bastion of human rights) We have absolutly no Americans in any position of athuority in the UN. Our voice in the UN has been shrinking to the point where we have to go outside the lines and twist arms to get any say so in how the UN is managed.
Now they want to charge a world income tax (guess who gets to pay the lions share) The only reason the UN wants the US as a member is for the money. Its starting to look like the number one goal of the UN is to strip America of its power and wealth and redistribute it to the rest of the world. What political system does this remind you of ?
screw the UN
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Very simple. Take PC ideology thats so prevelant in the US. "They" (Shock Horror MT :D ) reason that its neccesary to color the truth - the real events- to fit a certain political atmosphere. So the basic truth is shoved out and replaced with an acceptable one.
Or take the US court system. Any of you liberals who whine about the wrong people being convicted should understand the dangers of a purely logical reasoing process. The lawyers make a presentation based on logical arguments.
Or the college classroom. I have had endless chances to discuss issues like communism and socialism with these degenerate idiots and their handlers, I mean professors. In a classrom, in theory, purely logically communism can work. But we all know the truth about it.
Anyway I have certain feelings of anger and distrust towards the UN which you cannot understand. I hope one day your country is invaded and your people are left to the mercy of the UN bluehat peakekeepers. I hope your mother does not get nearly decapitated by a mortar. Enjoy the UN!
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Tell me what the UN would be doing ( other than complaining) if not for the US? Anyone?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
In a classrom, in theory, purely logically communism can work.
Surely you are jesting. And all people are just the same and have the same abilities.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Tell me what the UN would be doing ( other than complaining) if not for the US? Anyone?
No one can answer that.
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"Surely you are jesting. And all people are just the same and have the same abilities."
Meitla I think my personal opinion of communism and communists is well known. I would have them all shot. :D
Basically I was using is as an example of something that people can support with arguments and in theory, as in a leftist classroom, but that is impossible, untrue and impractical in real life.
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" I was a UN backer until the US was kicked of the 53 member Human Rights Commission in a secret ballot (replaced by Syria a bastion of human rights) "
There's 3 seats allocated to the 'western world' on the Human Rights Commision. The didnt lose their seat to Libya or any other 3rd world country, but to France, Austria and Sweden. (I think...all western Europe anyway).
Daff
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Do UN resolutions have a time limit? What's up with the 16 or so (not sure on the amount) against Iraq since 1991.
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Anyway I have certain feelings of anger and distrust towards the UN which you cannot understand. I hope one day your country is invaded and your people are left to the mercy of the UN bluehat peakekeepers. I hope your mother does not get nearly decapitated by a mortar. Enjoy the UN!
I reckon there are plenty of people in ET who are more than grateful for Australian and New Zealand INTERFET/UNTAET soldiers.
(http://www.army.mil.nz/nzarmy/images/careers_topnav/new_zealands_army.gif)(http://www.defence.gov.au/ARMY/traditions/images/risingsun2.gif)
Tronsky
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I have taken a logic class and found it all BS, even looked at all those fallacies pages and others. Simply because its very easy to support any positiojn with pure logic and argument. Thats exactly what these leftist college professors do so well. But it ignores the basic truth of things.
Let me rephrase that for everyone:
a) Grun here is privy to "Basic truth of things". He knows it all.
b) Grun here lacks intelectual horsepower to reason anything, hince he hinges on his "Basic truth of things", which again, he is the only one privy too.
Now how do you discuss anything with the "all knowing" being ?
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Originally posted by Daff
" I was a UN backer until the US was kicked of the 53 member Human Rights Commission in a secret ballot (replaced by Syria a bastion of human rights) "
There's 3 seats allocated to the 'western world' on the Human Rights Commision. The didnt lose their seat to Libya or any other 3rd world country, but to France, Austria and Sweden. (I think...all western Europe anyway).
Daff
negitive... syria replaced the US on the panel last year but, the US was reinsated this April. still Syria is on it and thats bad enough.
Last year, WEOG had four candidates for three seats on the commission. In a secret ballot by the 53 nations on the U.N. Economic and Social Council — the commission's parent body — France, Austria and Sweden won seats and the United States suffered a stunning loss.