Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Amboss on September 13, 2002, 03:22:17 AM
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There's been some discussion about adding more AAA to airfields. So I was thinking on how mannable 88mm+ AAA pieces could be implemented, though its prolly nothing new.
Basically I came up with a system where you'd use a dot command to set a base altitude (.alt 5000) and then use the throttle on your stick to increment/decrement the altitude by steps of 50 or 100. Basically the throttle would be used to make small adjustments of the time fuse on the AA shells. The currently set altitude would display in the top left part of the screen, just as it does on naval guns.
Alternatively we could use time units rather than units of alt for historical accuracy, though I prefer alt units from a gameplay point of view.
Anway, just an idea. Feel free to tear it apart. :)
-Amboss
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Originally posted by Amboss
Anway, just an idea. Feel free to tear it apart.
Need to fix the mannable ack no-tracers bug first.
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Just Curious, but why is it a bug?
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I don't think they use tracers in 88+mm AAA though, which is what this thread is about.
-Amboss
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Originally posted by Amboss
I don't think they use tracers in 88+mm AAA though, which is what this thread is about.
-Amboss
He has a point, he is referring to the 37mm that doesn't show tracers. Fix that, then I completely agree with you about mannable 88mm guns. That would be great for high alt fighters/buffs attacking a field.
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This is from memory so the exact details might be a bit off but is in general how Flaks were opereated:
The Fliegerabwehrkanone cannon were all electrically coupled to a central director which was fed from a 41D gun laying radar. The radar would provide azimuth, angular height and range to the central director. The gunner at the central director would dial these values in and then, via the "Flaknet", these settings would show up as the settings on a set of duplicate dials on the individual Flaks gun director. The gunlayer of each 88 in the group would then match his dial set to these.
I'm given to understand if visibility permitted it was common for the azimuth reading to be ignored and the direction set via the Flak's optics. The gun director (which was steroscopic) of each individual Flak could mechanically compute the predict the course of the round.
So, it would actualy be realistic for the timing of the fuse to be set by the system and leave the actual aiming of the gun to a human. Your shells would detonate at the right range but you would need to get the lead correct based on some feed back from the system.
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Originally posted by JimBear
Just Curious, but why is it a bug?
Also tracers show from gunners position, but not from anywhere else.
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i don't think it was a bug, something to do with gameplay (*shrug*)
My wish list for manable guns:
Be able to see tracers from manable 37mm sites
Be able to see tracers from you OWN 5" guns on the ships
88mm puffy flak sites
anti-tank enplacements
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Why do you need to see the tracers?
Just kill all the guns and your problem is solved.
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well what if the last guy who killed the last AI ack was killed ITP?
Then you arrive on scene, see no tracers from the ack, wouldn't you calmly be flying around the field, waiting for a plane to vulch?
But not all the ack is down, some manable gun sites are still up, and someone is gunning in one of them, he would be firing and trying to zero in, seeing where his tracers go makes his life easier
Whereas you see no tracers and keep on flying around calmly
Suddenly, you hear a loud bang and your wing falls off
wouldn't you be pissed off when you figure out the guy was in a gun pos?
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It's very obvious if an ack has been destroyed or not regardless of whether you see tracers. There is either a white spot or a dark one.
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Whether you see tracers isn't the issue. The issue is that you see no tracers while HE can. He can use his tracers to aim and such without having to worry about that giving him away.
Sort of the opposite of the GV problem where you can turn off your tracers but othert players still see tracers.
J_A_B
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I beg to differ, when I have no tracers set I see no tracers in my field gun.
-Amboss
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you've just turned them off
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Originally posted by BenDover
well what if the last guy who killed the last AI ack was killed ITP?
Then you arrive on scene, see no tracers from the ack, wouldn't you calmly be flying around the field, waiting for a plane to vulch?
But not all the ack is down, some manable gun sites are still up, and someone is gunning in one of them, he would be firing and trying to zero in, seeing where his tracers go makes his life easier
Whereas you see no tracers and keep on flying around calmly
Suddenly, you hear a loud bang and your wing falls off
wouldn't you be pissed off when you figure out the guy was in a gun pos?
So you're saying that your SA is so bad that while you are circling a field waiting for a goon or for someone to vulch that you cant look at the ground and see whether or not the acks are up or not?
Hmmmm......it would seem to me that a quick move of the hat switch while circling is all it takes.
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nope, i have quite good SA, just sometimes you won't see it
and answer me this:
Why are you so against add tracers from field guns?
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Because its not necessary. Why take time to code something that is preventable by someone who just uses their eyes and brain? Thats one of the first things I scan for when I am flying over an enemy field....I look for those ack circles. If they are up, you start making a plan of attack to get them down before they get you.
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Originally posted by HFMudd
This is from memory so the exact details might be a bit off but is in general how Flaks were opereated:
The Fliegerabwehrkanone cannon were all electrically coupled to a central director which was fed from a 41D gun laying radar. The radar would provide azimuth, angular height and range to the central director. The gunner at the central director would dial these values in and then, via the "Flaknet", these settings would show up as the settings on a set of duplicate dials on the individual Flaks gun director. The gunlayer of each 88 in the group would then match his dial set to these.
I'm given to understand if visibility permitted it was common for the azimuth reading to be ignored and the direction set via the Flak's optics. The gun director (which was steroscopic) of each individual Flak could mechanically compute the predict the course of the round.
So, it would actualy be realistic for the timing of the fuse to be set by the system and leave the actual aiming of the gun to a human. Your shells would detonate at the right range but you would need to get the lead correct based on some feed back from the system.
unfortunately this would mean in game terms that we would have a similar system as the fleet AA which if you ask me is far too easy and overly rewarding for the gunners.It requires no skill at all to fire them.
Its ok by me for the fleet as theres so many idiots who kamakazi in lancs etc that its good we have something to blow these idiots up to save a relatively vulnerable carrier but if we had this at everybase you would see 100 kill runs in the 88s because it doesnt require any skill to lead a plane when the 37mm and the auto ack shows you where to aim.
I like the idea of manable 88s at fields but i cannot agree with this auto height finding, or proximity shells like on the fleets.
The manual setting of altitude with a manual adjustment using throttle sounds a bit more promising to me but id further add that they remove the distance display to add a bit of difficulty.Just enemy icon rather than laser range finding.
what we have to avoid is letting the player who does all the hard work of flying for miles be slaughtered without effort by some other player using a gun system that a 5 year old child could use. :)
just my thought on th subject.
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Hazed,
good point! I thought I liked the idea until I read your post.
MwNucks
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I like the idea of manable 88s at fields but i cannot agree with this auto height finding
So add a margin of error to the fuse... but if you make it too realistic you might as well not have it all as hits against a single group of three closely packed bombers would probably be rare enough that it would not be fun as so nobody would do it.