Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dedalu on September 13, 2002, 10:46:41 AM
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Bishops aways have 4x and knights 2x rooks numbers. It's a gameplay problem and must be solved.
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Surely ye jest.
Let people fly for the side they want. I've traded sides in an effort to balance things out, but the boo-hooing from the former side for being a "traitor" and other baloney make me leery of doing that again.
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Seems like just a month ago it was the Knights that were the problem.
I must not be remembering correctly. :rolleyes:
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Rofl.
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Originally posted by HFMudd
Seems like just a month ago it was the Knights that were the problem.
I must not be remembering correctly. :rolleyes:
This problem have more than 3 months... I think that it isn't a country specific issue. Much people simple change to the most populated side.
What do you think about a perk cost when it occurs?
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IMO its not a Bish problem so much as it is the way the fights are fought. It really gets boring to go after the country that has the fewest numbers, and ignore the country that has the most.
This is the problem. Bish have 30 fields, Rooks have 18 Nits have 24 fields. Nits go after Rooks, Bish go after Nits and Rooks cuz they have enough in numbers...Bish win without being really challenged.
There are many variations of this theme but, the end result is predictable. Bish can't be blamed for having the most nor can any other country. Its the way each country uses their numbers that determines the outcomes.
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If this is referring to last night,
Bish GAINED numbers.
Bish didn't win because of our numbers. We picked up an early advantage, shut down the knights HQ(Causing many to log off) while doing most of our work against the rooks. The knights had no defense, making it easy to do.
An advantage causes numbers to shift. A country that picks up and holds an advantage will also gain numbers.
The problem isnt the bishops, the knights have more players than we do at peak hours. The problem is the rooks who are consistantly outnumbered.
As for the gangbangs,
The most common situation currently is knights and bish fighting, with the rooks playing lapdog to one side. So don't squeak when you're the subject of the gangbang.
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I think you hit on something....when a country's radar is down, especially for a long time, people log out. I noticed this to a smaller degree when night time came...numbers would dip a bit, and regain some after night had passed.
I was flying Knight last night and we just couldnt seem to interest people into capturing A39, and then, defend our HQ. Everyone seemed to want to stay planted out in the middle "wedge".
That, and the Pizza Map is difficult to really find the main "fight" due to its size. I called out a few times on Channel 2 to find out where most were. No replies.
As for reduced perks in that situation, I don't think that really does anything. If I'm down to a few bases and now I have an Me262 at my disposal....it wont do anything more for me...I'm better off continuing to up a Dora or a 190-A8, something I can get a 4 or 5 kill sortie in and perhaps make a difference turning back the tide.
2 cents
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I don't think that there should be anything done about the number dispersment. These numbers have already worked themselves out to what human nature has dictated.
There isn't somekind of BONUS to being Bish or Knit, except having more guys on your team.
If most people like to be Bishop or Knit, because they go toward the team that has the most numbers, than it's their choice. Of course there are also other reasons as well.
Mine for staying Bish is because that's what my squad flys. If someday, my priority changes, than so will I.
If you're a Rook than, IMO, you must not have that need or have some other reason that is more important to you than having the numbers and so you stay Rook. Maybe you like being the underdog and by being Rook, your getting what you want.
If someone else on another team is getting tired of not having the numbers on their team, change teams.
Since this is the way the cards have fallen, obviously it's human nature and it's the way the everybody wants it.
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sorry but perking a country change wont work ......
all new players are bishop by default. they have no perks to change then when they do why would they leave to a lesser populated country and lose perks.?
the only possible solution i see to stop spies and country jumping is to have all country changes approved by HTC. (like THAT would ever be a possibility lol... the administration alone would require them to hire 1 if not 2 people for this)
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JB73, Hitech specifically mentioned that the "Bish default country" is a myth. The players are said to be allocated randomly at first log on.
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In my observation, it is something about the tendency of players in a certain time zone. In European time zones the numbers are usually equal, but once it shifts to the US prime time, things begin to change.
The problem is, the numbers drops down for a certain country - typically Rooks - when other countries start gaining them.
Since the numbers stats are usually even at European prime time, this could only mean that the players newly logging on at US prime time are choosing certain countries exclusively. For whatever reason it is, US players log on to mostly Bish and Knits, and they are not logging on to the Rooks. So, for 5~6 hours till the prime shifts from US east coast to the West coast, the Rooks are in a constant banging.
The things start waning as finally the prime leaves US West coast, crosses the pacific and lands at Asian timezone.
...
Maybe there's some tendency of US based players that avoids the Rooks as their country of choice?
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Originally posted by JB73
sorry but perking a country change wont work ......
all new players are bishop by default. they have no perks to change then when they do why would they leave to a lesser populated country and lose perks.?
the only possible solution i see to stop spies and country jumping is to have all country changes approved by HTC. (like THAT would ever be a possibility lol... the administration alone would require them to hire 1 if not 2 people for this)
I can understand the Rooks' frustration at times with the numbers, but you gotta admit, it keeps us on our toes, and has produced something good in the RJO...necessity is the mother of invention.
I've played AH for almost three years... Rook the whole time in the MA. The only questionable thing I've seen concerning game play, was where a high ranking player would come over to take command of a CG, either to remove it from play or to get it sunk. I've only seen this done twice, though it may have happened more often. The majority of players in the MA are honorable, so I don't see it as a big problem. I'm not referring to spying here. I'm talking about out right cheating. Spying implies aloof observance and conveying of info, but not participating in extortion by seizing a CG.
One possible solution to this occurence, would be for a CG override, or "foul" tab be installed in the clipboard. Once this is activated, a pop-up would show for the three highest country players to approve or disapprove of the CG commander in question. I believe this feature would rarely be used, but would be in place when necessary. It's sad to have to go to the trouble to add such a feature, which would almost never be used.
Les
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Kweassa / Leslie ... u both have good points...
im a bit suprised u both knew i was a rook given my mentioning nothing about what country i fly for :)
however u know im a rook .. fine by me .. but like most rooks im PROUD of it.
back to the point... we were talking about the #'s balance of the countries.... personally ive never heard about htc saying the original country of new players is random.. in fact every nob iv seen is a bish till they switch. even myself when i joined.
try it offline of TA if you have never been there.. u will be a bish by default. that was my point about it.
like i said there is never a chance of htc monitoring country changing... it other than that i see no reasonable change to the imbalance and spies/CV stealers in the MA...
oh well <> and nice debating with you :)
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Bishops aways have 4x and knights 2x rooks numbers. It's a gameplay problem and must be solved.
Another one on numbers in Arena:rolleyes:
There no solution unless (maybe) u want only two countries instead of the present three.
Anyway, too much bishes? Just improve your aiming an shot them the more you can:D :p
Btw Pacau:)
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Bishops dont always have more numbers. Its a cyclical thing. Maybe in your time zone there is a problem, but its not like that all the time.
I used to switch and fly rook from time to time, but got tired of all the spy accusations so I wont be doing that anymore.
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Bish have been down in numbers all day today, Saturday the 14th. They are still down and the arena has been reset. The dominant numbers team is the nits with about a 1.3 advantage over the bish alone and this is AFTER the reset. If you don't like the numbers swap countries or log. squeaking about it won't do any good as HT has already gone on record ans not having less than 3 countries. Just deal with it. Its a freaking GAME for crying out loud.
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I've been wondering about arena numbers lately as well. During the times I log on (mid to late evening Pacific) lately, there has always been a decided Knight advantage over both Bishop and Rook, sometimes two to one. In addition, closer inspection shows that there are way more coordinated squad members flying for Knights than for either Rook or Bishop: a few nights ago there were 7 Knight squads up with 4 or more members flying and only two Rook and one Bishop. Tonight there were 7 Knight, 3 Rook, and 4 Bishop with total squad members (4 or more per squad) of 62 Knight, 8 Rook, and 27 Bishop. That means the Knights are often conducting well planned coordinated base grabbing attacks with overwhelming odds which makes it tiresome to be a heavily outnumbered Bishop (or, I suspect, Rook) defender.*
Does anyone know why so many active squads pick Knight? Back in AirWarrior the sides were given generic letters, A, B, and C and still people would associate characteristics with the players of each side. Warbirds had colors, and again sides took on characteristics: green were Kermits, purple Barneys, reds Commies, and Gold.. well they had the aura of being the "best". Now we have chess based names. But while "Knights" has an almost perfect ring to it (warrior defenders against barbarian attackers), the other two are less than inspiring. "Bishops" are guys in satin robes who wear funny pointy hats and have no military power, and "Rooks" are, well, inanimate objects (castle towers) and basically useless (well, OK, I'm not a very good chess player). I wonder if the names have any subconcious effect on peoples choice of sides?
*PS- Before complaining about team members who appear to be attacking what you consider to be the "wrong" side, consider what you are asking. In tonights case, if you were a Bishop asking other Bishops to ignore the Rooks and defend against Knights, you are asking people to fly against overwhelming odds- sometimes as many as 30 Knights attacking one base. The likely outcome will be constant death and a Knight reset anyway. Why not just let the people who choose to avoid that, and have fun elsewhere until the reset, do their own thing. I personally hate taking on hopeless odds and dying repeatedly for virtually no reason. If you like that, more power to you, you're a better man than I am Gunga Din, but don't call me a moron for not following you. You can't win against overwhelming odds, especially when applied as squad coordinated attacks, so let people have their fun elsewhere if they choose.
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My side name-thought association theory (I've held it for a long time):
Knights = German teutonic Knights, defending against the barbarian hordes; The flower of England in the form of the Knights of the Round Table; Knight's Cross (and associated versions) medal of Germany (I think this plays a part in the LW fans selection of the Knits).
Bishops = Religious leadership, perhaps wisdom; warm feelings for some religious people; uncomfortable feelings for some athiests and people with a private sense of the spiritual (silly as it is, I feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea of flying for a religious figure as the name has more impact than does the symbol).
Rooks = Masonry; castles; bird rookeries?
(715, I always did best with my Rooks, even bettter than with my Queen. I once got a friend so frusterated that he placed my King onthe board, surrounded it with his Pawns, placed all his other pieces randomly about the board and placed one random piece of mine, a Rook, on the board in a random location. I won.)
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Originally posted by stegor
Anyway, too much bishes? Just improve your aiming an shot them the more you can:D :p
Btw Pacau:)
My stats:
Country Kills As Kills Of
Bishop 0 134
Knight 0 47
Rook 181 0
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Originally posted by 715
Does anyone know why so many active squads pick Knight? Back in AirWarrior the sides were given generic letters, A, B, and C and still people would associate characteristics with the players of each side. Warbirds had colors, and again sides took on characteristics: green were Kermits, purple Barneys, reds Commies, and Gold.. well they had the aura of being the "best". Now we have chess based names. But while "Knights" has an almost perfect ring to it (warrior defenders against barbarian attackers), the other two are less than inspiring. "Bishops" are guys in satin robes who wear funny pointy hats and have no military power, and "Rooks" are, well, inanimate objects (castle towers) and basically useless (well, OK, I'm not a very good chess player). I wonder if the names have any subconcious effect on peoples choice of sides?
Not a bad theory. In real life most of us aren't much more than Pawns, so it must give some people a warm fuzzy feeling to escape reality and be "Knights" for a few hours.
Personaly, I think they're simply lame idiots who gravitated to the number heavy side because it almost guarantees winning the game without having to work too hard at it. Nothing more complex than that. I've taken part in two Rook resets when we had a rare numerical advantage that the Knit-wits seem to enjoy most evenings (US time), and frankly it wasn't much of a challenge. Mob a base, vulch anything that tries to leave the ground until all the hangars can be destroyed, cart a few loads of troops in. Rinse. Repeat, ad nauseum. I can't imagine the sort of person who would find that appealing on a regular basis, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want one as a friend. :)
On the other hand, I've got nothing but the highest respect for the Rooks who continue to fight against overwhelming odds night after night. They don't do it because they like being the underdogs. I think they do it because the alternative (jumping sides or logging off) is simply distasteful.
Hope this works, never tried inserting an image before. This famous cartoon sums up the Rook strength of character for me:
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In real life most of us aren't much more than Pawns, so it must give some people a warm fuzzy feeling to escape reality and be "Knights" for a few hours.
, Personaly, I think they're simply lame idiots who gravitated to the number heavy side because it almost guarantees winning the game without having to work too hard at it
BTW we all are here to forget reality for some moments; we all are here dreaming a little to be real WWII fighting ace, we are here to return at our young age when we had less worries; its part of the game, cause this is a game.
So we dont need drastical judging neither psychological explanation, just try to face it all with a smile :) not with hard words
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well i dont mind being the underdog but a problem that i dont like much is people jumping sides to stop a reset.i feel there should be a cost in perks if you leive your side.so if your a bishup and your fixin to loose and want to jump to a rook to help stop the rest it should cost and the cost should be high.aliences are part of war but they should come with a cost.
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Smiling for 12 months gets your facial muscles cramped.
They twist and warp, and finally it turns into a
.... :mad: frown :mad:
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The solution is simple. A perk point multilpier based upon the current population ratio. For example:
Bishops - 300 pilots
Knights - 200 pilots
Rooks - 100 pilots
If a Bishop kills a Rook, his perkies get multiplied by 1/2. If he kills a Knight he gets 2/3 of his perks.
If a Rook kills a Bishop, his perks get multiplied by 3/1. If he kills a Knight he gets twice his perks.
The gameplay would either balance, or those in underpopulated countries would suddenly find that there fewer numbers would have much greater access to perk planes, which would help offset their numerical disadvantage.
Certainly everyone wouldn't be willing to swap sides just for perks, but my guess is that there would be enough to do so to balance things out. And if not, the underdogs would at least have better equipment to work with.
MwNucks:D
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I started flying as a rook after aw's demise,sad days indeed:( . Yet, this game turns out to be much better. After 8 months of gang banging, i learned a few things. 1 - there are nights when rooks got to gang; 2 - them bish/knits sure can throw up the numbers; 3 - you should pick your own side based on your own desires, nothing more, nothing less- you pay your 15 bucks just like everyone else. 4 - flying bish/knit, you can fly forever without a real fight grrrr. My squad did some moving around to learn more about the game, and we found that it is much easier to survive as a bish or knit, in general, but at any moment local odds are what count, and you can end up dead...just like in real life. #'s were imbalanced in AW, i suspect in other sims as well as AH. Pick your poison and (*$#(*)&$# what anyone else says.
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I say we just kill all the rooks.
Problem solved :)
In all fairness though, its a hard thing to control.People will play on whatever side they choose, and should.
RTR
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everyone has one, right?
I fly Rook for the challenge. Knights and Bishops may like the cooler names for their countries.
My guess is they like the reset perkies even more.
Discontinue reset perkies and I'll bet things would even out more.
Where'd that idea come from, btw? AW didn't have resets. Does WB?
HONK!
Gooss
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For those guys talking about the subconcious reasoning for choosing a country:
Then ROOKS must be smarter because the only piece on the board more powerful is the Queen. ROOKS (the players) know chess well enough to know this (who up there said rooks are useless....duh, think again), so we are drawn to ROOKS. Smarter = better pilots
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Originally posted by Gooss
Discontinue reset perkies
I gotta give a hearty hear hear to Gooss for this one . Why should gangbanging be promoted?
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What BS:rolleyes:
Btw, taken on a weekend.
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thats right weav...Look at the number of fields that bishops have in that SS. The numbers are an indicator of how the war is going. The winning team (defined as the one that lookks to be the one that gets the reset) will get alot player switchovers. Folks want the 50 perks, they dont want to be gangbanged, and are just plain dweebs:)
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Maybe they don't want to get gangbanged and/or maybe they are dweebs ... BUT ... they won't get the perk points unless they switched to the winning country at least 12 hours ahead of the reset.
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Removing the reset perks is definitly a good idea. The only people who benefit from them anyways are the people who refuse to fly anything with an ENY over 20. Perks are patheticly easy to earn, even for new players, as long as you fly something a bit less common.
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ya i tho tdefault was Bish too..When i opened a second account...I was Default Bishop....
I instnalty complained on open channel..lololo]
Luckily..or Luky not,,,,Hi Tec was flyn..(err answering questions..lol)_
He said...ITS RANDOM CHOICE.....
so ..i see no reason fo rhim to lie....
Screw it...,,,keep on fitn.......
And I have never seen s High rank person come over and Run A CV group into a furball....maybe it happedn ..BTU extre,ly uncommon..as a Iplay frequently....
Love BiGB
xoxoxo
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A few weeks ago, I was feeling quite sorry for the Rooks, as my squadmates were not currently on, I thought I'd change sides for a bit and see if i could help balance things out for a bit. I play for fun, no other reason, so my only real attachment is to the squad, and that's just "because".
Anyway, I found the rooks to be quite rude. I no longer feel sorry for them in the least. I imagine they are low in numbers is becuase of the manners they display. (This is not a slam on ALL rooks, only on the ones I had contact with.)
Anyways, that's my take on the subject.
Chris "Mudshark" Scott
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lolo Mudshark..one day i was on the Bishops.....Seems like all sides have there share of A-holes....
Even us Knights..trust me we do...lololo
Love BiGB
xoxox
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The numbers change due to where major %'s of a country's players live. This is not a Bishop, Kniggit, or Rookie problem - its just the nature of online gaming.
I live in the Eastern US - Kniggits always have numbers from about 8PM to 11PM here.
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I think hes right.The only answer is to ban all the bishops from ever playing again.
there that solves that :)
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More Rooks play on the weekend, or so it seems to me.
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Originally posted by dedalu
This problem have more than 3 months... I think that it isn't a country specific issue. Much people simple change to the most populated side.
What do you think about a perk cost when it occurs?
Originally posted by AKWeav
What BS:rolleyes:
Btw, taken on a weekend.
Bishops: 97 players and 4 fields
Knights: 178 players and 21 fields
Rooks: 215 players and 44
:mad:
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AKweav's screenshot was taken on weekend, probably right after the rook joint ops missions had taken place, bishops at the virge of reset and most of them logged off.
If old signs show anything, bish can show this one screenshot / week while rooks can show 6 screenshots proving the opposite / week. So bish are using the same lame excuse 'exception makes the rule' when they manage to snap a screenshot on one of the VERY rare rook resets.
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Yeah, but think how boring it would get after awhile if Rooks had equal numbers all the time...winning reset after reset.:D
Les
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I like Nuck's idea.......perk point multiplier based on arena numbers.
RASCAL
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Perk multiplier wouldnt work. People would hop to least populated country and dweebs would jump back and forth chasing best multiplier.
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Originally posted by mipoikel
My stats:
Country Kills As Kills Of
Bishop 0 134
Knight 0 47
Rook 181 0
slacker!! :D
tour 32 i killed 630 bish and 390 knits.
and 12 rooks! :eek:
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Originally posted by PvtPyls
Perk multiplier wouldnt work. People would hop to least populated country and dweebs would jump back and forth chasing best multiplier.
Sounds to me like you are describing how it work to even out player numbers. :)
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Today's problem.
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A day or two ago:
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Last night I logged on at about 8:00 PM mountain standard and saw the bish were outnumberd almost 2 to one by the nits and down to 2 fields, both of which were porked. Yeah the numbers are a REAL bad problem :p
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Counterwhine deployed!
about 8:45 CDT
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323 to 180. What's your point? :)
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LOL!
Also note that Rooks only had 10 bases, prior to all the Bish leaving the arena.
It's either a conspiracy for all the Bish to log out for 1 minute to take snapshot of the numbers or:
Monday Night Football, Survivor, The Bachelor?, or Spongebob Squarepants came on the TV so the other 200 bish that were on prior to screensave logged.
:D
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waaaaa
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kill barraks if you are out numbered........... ever hear of a suicide jabo run for Troops and supplies??
waaaaaaaaa
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E A S Y General BGBMAW! Calm down.
Just a lighthearted jab
;)
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I challenge anyone in this thread to post a solution to the supposed balance problem. Go ahead,..make my day.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I challenge anyone in this thread to post a solution to the supposed balance problem. Go ahead,..make my day.
I see the problem not being a numbers thing as much as a fun factor thing. When a country is down to just a few fields and those start getting porked a lot of people just log off because of the situation causing an even greater imballance for the moment.
It happens EVERY time a country gets down to just a few bases.
The fix, to me, seems obvious.
For each map make it so there's atleast 4-5 bases that are uncaptureable and the strat for them ALMOST unporkable, maybe down to 50% but not totaly porkable.
It's not a complete solution but it would go far in reducing the very loopsided condition you get when a country is down to 2-3 porked bases.
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Another idea: a zone at the farthest size of the map of each country used as an aerial spawn zone.
The zone may be a box of 10000 feet tall between 5000 and 15000 feet, 10 miles long along a map border and 2 miles width. When u spawn there u are placed heading towards your closer surviving base, at a random altitude and position inside the box and at 2/3 of your maximum speed for that altitude, WEP off and max man and rpm.
If your plane can load drop tanks, that loadout will be selected automatically and u will spawn with the drop tank/s empty and the selected internal fuel till 100%.
If the selected plane can't use drop tanks, you will spawn with a maximum of 50% of fuel.
That spawn zone is deactivated untill your country is reduced to three airfields. When your country is reduced to less than 4 bases, the zone is activated and placed automatically in the border of the map closer to the surviving base farther from the centre of the map.
This feature may simulate reinforcements comming from outside the map.