Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Widewing on September 14, 2002, 12:31:46 AM
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I watched an FM-2 roll in on a low Typhoon from about 5k above it. A few seconds later the Tiffy goes down.
Seconds later comes a diatribe demanding that HTC perk the FM-2 because it chased the tiffy down. I'm thinking to myself, "yeah, it chased him down because it was much higher."
About 15 minutes later, I spot another Typhoon diving in to hit the VH. I wait till he pulls off his rocket run and bounce him in his climb-out. Two short bursts takes off his wing.
Well, it was the same knucklehead, and once again he starts in with his ranting about perking the FM-2.
I suppose I've seen everything now. Perk a 330 mph fighter, little changed from its 1939 configuration and armed with just four machine guns!!!
Folks, if you're in a fast fighter and get chased down by a Wildcat, well, it wasn't the Wildcat that's the problem, it's your lousy SA and faulty judgement that got you whacked.
My regards,
Widewing
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In the MA anything goes. Love it. Learn it, or leave it.
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Some people said the Hurricane Mk IIc needed to be perked even before it was released.
Within a day of v1.08 being released people were saying the Mossie needed to be perked.
Within a day of v1.09 being released people were saying the Bf110G-2 needed to be perked.
Nothin' changes.
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The C202, I tell yas.
Perk that monster!
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Perk the perk "system" and just fly what you want. Why worry about someone elses plane???? This is a GAME not a WW2 recreation. Play and enjoy it. If you can't have fun without trying to decide for other what and how they are flying you need another hobby.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Maverick
Perk the perk "system" and just fly what you want. Why worry about someone elses plane???? This is a GAME not a WW2 recreation. Play and enjoy it. If you can't have fun without trying to decide for other what and how they are flying you need another hobby.
:rolleyes:
What other people fly is irrelavent. What people kill you in isnt. When it comes to free planes, fly what you want, but that doesn't mean that a free plane shouldn't be perked, or the other way around.
How would you like it if every plane you had to fight was an me262 or tempest?
That said, the FM2 is a contemporary of the early F6F's. It's an excellent plane, but hardly perkworthy.
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Originally posted by Innominate
What other people fly is irrelavent. What people kill you in isnt. When it comes to free planes, fly what you want, but that doesn't mean that a free plane shouldn't be perked, or the other way around.
How would you like it if every plane you had to fight was an me262 or tempest?
That said, the FM2 is a contemporary of the early F6F's. It's an excellent plane, but hardly perkworthy.
ok innominate then why is the fm2 of f4f for that matter so much better of a fighter than the f6f?!?!
the f6f was commissioned to replace the ageing and incapable f4f and such...
BUT in the MA the f4f and fm2 are MUCH harder to kill (ie. many more rounds to critical areas, and they perform ACM's better than f6f)
that makes NO sense... the government replaced a plane (in RL with a better plane) but here the "lesser performing" plane (again in RL) is a better performer... i guess it dosen't matter as long as the hardcore early-war plane enthusiastics are happy that their "ultimate plane" is the best... thats what i see
many times have i swooped down on an f4f in a dora and been outrun... or chased down at 400+ by a f4f/fm2... or my cannon's have had NO effect (talk about titanium armor)
yes the f4f and fm2 need serious rework or rethoughtas far as their perk value goes
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I don't really understand the 1st post:
If you don't want the FM-2 to be perked, why do you have to raise the subject when nobody talks about it on this BBS?? Was the immediate reaction of a frustrated player worth it?
Or was it another occasion to let us enjoy another of your virtual feats?
Post TOD or scenario AAR are nice.
MA-baby-seal-clubbing AAR are getting old quick.
My 0.02€,
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Why pay attention to such comments in the first place ? ;)
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Originally posted by deSelys
I don't really understand the 1st post:
Post TOD or scenario AAR are nice.
MA-baby-seal-clubbing AAR are getting old quick.
My 0.02€,
Ah, Baby Seal Clubbing...
Now that always reminds me of an old ex girlfriend's family dog. A white terrier/corgie cross with black eyes.
Anyway, one evening I just couldn't help but mention this as we sat in the family living room with the dog sleeping peacefully on the floor, that when he looked up. He reminded me of a baby seal just waiting to be clubbed.
Guess that's why she's now an ex. :D
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
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FM2...F4F will intially out turn HellCat.
F6F has advantage at higher altitude's
out DIVE's almost any plane in the game.
out TURNS almost any plane over 300mph
fly the F6F correctly....and you eat spits for lunch.
but i use my CAT for jabo attack missions.
which fm2...f4f can't do
SlowHand
4WING =441 Silver Fox=
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i must be going blind, i can't see widewing's stats in this thread.:eek:
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HUNTING BABY SEALS (http://www.greaseman.org/sounds/greatest_hits/210_-_Hunting_Baby_Seals.mp3)
Sez' it all
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Some thoughts, Dont overlook the original reason for the post. The person who was calling for the fm2 to be perked on channel 1 was most likley a noob. He or she prolly didnt realize (or doesnt understand) the fm2's E state at the begining of the engaugement. Was then quickly bounced by a more expenenced stick, and vented frustration on channel 1.
I have been with AH for about a year now. I can clearly recall in the early days beying run down by a "slower ride" and not really understanding why. SA , judging E and then understanding E took quite a while for me to understand.
Perhaps this person just needs some help? The MA is a hostile place, and I suspect this person was simply frustrated.
Its easy to forget how difficult this game is for a noob....
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Originally posted by JB73
ok innominate then why is the fm2 of f4f for that matter so much better of a fighter than the f6f?!?!
the f6f was commissioned to replace the ageing and incapable f4f and such...
BUT in the MA the f4f and fm2 are MUCH harder to kill (ie. many more rounds to critical areas, and they perform ACM's better than f6f)
that makes NO sense... the government replaced a plane (in RL with a better plane) but here the "lesser performing" plane (again in RL) is a better performer... i guess it dosen't matter as long as the hardcore early-war plane enthusiastics are happy that their "ultimate plane" is the best... thats what i see
many times have i swooped down on an f4f in a dora and been outrun... or chased down at 400+ by a f4f/fm2... or my cannon's have had NO effect (talk about titanium armor)
yes the f4f and fm2 need serious rework or rethoughtas far as their perk value goes
The FM-1/FM-2 remained in production primarily in order to have a fighter that wasn't too large for the growing fleet of escort carriers. Available deck length made operating the F6F, and especially the F4U, problematic.
There is no question that the Navy preferred the F6F for several key reasons. Range and payload are at the top of the list.
Indeed, once Grumman redesigned the static and dynamic pitot system, it was discovered that the F6F was, indeed as fast as the F4U-1 series. So, an extra 60 mph was available in comparison to the F4F/FM series. Unfortuantely, HTC's model seems to stick to the pre-redesign numbers which were too low.
Nonetheless, the test results of 1944's Joint Fighter Conference concluded that the FM-2 was the best fighter in the American inventory for combat below 10,000 ft. In terms of turn rate, the F4U-1D had a 212% larger turn radius than the FM-2, with the F6F-5 coming in at 137%.
With regard to climb rate, only the F4U-4 climbed better than the FM-2, getting to 20,000 ft just 35 seconds faster than the FM-2 and 45 seconds faster than the F4F-3 (of 1940 vintage).
Other factors contributed to the FM-2's good low level performance, such as have the best (meaning lowest) power loading of any U.S. fighter at sea level at 5.94 pounds/hp. The mighty P-51D came in at 6.83 pounds/hp at sea level. I have seen some estimations of FM-2 acceleration, and below 10,000 ft it would accelerate faster than the F4U-4 up until about 300 mph, where drag began to severely limit speed and acceleration.
Dive acceleration was very good as well. During operations in North Africa, some Luftwaffe pilots flying early Bf 109Gs were horrified to discover that FAA Martlet MkII and USN F4F-4s could dive with their Gustavs!
Ultimately, the single greatest drawbacks of the FM-2 are its lack of speed and weak engine performance above 15,000 feet.
As to ruggedness. Marine pilots loved their Corsairs, but lamented the loss of the Wildcat's superior resistance to battle damage. Can anyone imagine a P-51 surviving a 12+ G pullout? Wildcats could not only survive such punishment, but do so without serious damage. Add to this very basic and simple systems and you have just about the toughest fighter ever to take wing.
Additionally, you have to factor in that the Wildcat is a very small fighter, and consequently, a very small target.
Let me relate the experience of Ensign Joe McGraw of VC-10:
Having become separated from his wingman, McGraw found himself in the close company of a dozen A6M5 Zeros near Samar (in the PI). He engaged in a swirling dogfight, consistantly out-flying the Zero pilots who were clearly startled at the performance of this new Wildcat. Initially, McGraw received credit for 1 probable and two damaged. McGraw described the Zero that he claimed as a probably destroyed in great detail. Post war investigation of U.S. Navy claims indicate that this IJN Zero was apparently flown by a 13 kill ace, and he was reported to have crashed into the sea after engaging in a protracted dogfight with an American Wildcat.
In the mid 1970s, I was fortunate to get some seat time with VC-10 down in Guantanamo Bay. At the time they had just transitioned from the F-8 Crusader to the TA-4J Skyhawk. Even 30 years later, VC-10 was a highly respected composite squadron.
I am largely dismayed at the continuous banter to perk planes such as the P-51B, N1K2, La-7 and now the FM-2. These are all very capable aircraft, but their presence does not unbalance the arena, nor are they unbeatable, especially the bog-slow Wildcats! Please people, stop the pathetic whining and learn to how to deal with the different aircraft rather than make silly excuses or insist that your failures are anyone's or anything's fault but your own.
My regards,
Widewing
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fly the F6F correctly....and you eat spits for lunch. - SLO
You mean against a newbie in a Spit or someone who's been around the block a few times? If the latter, you have to tell me the secret.
innominate then why is the fm2 of f4f for that matter so much better of a fighter than the f6f?!?! - JB73
WW2 was not an arena. In WW2, a pilot could go a long time without ever seeing the enemy. There wasn't a continual upping of aircraft that gain altitude on you and the furball you descend to ground level in. Generally, in WW2, once combattants engaged, the furball exploded into many small battles and then the skies cleared and no one was around. In an Arena setting, turning ability will be much more important than was historical because in the MA, there will always be someone within a few miles of you who is higher and faster. The MA isn't WW2 and so there are slightly different strategies and tactics.
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That call for perking the FM2 was surely in jest. While I like the plane a lot, handles like a spit 5 but with armor, it's slow as molasses and has no cannon to boot.
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Surely it was in a frustrated jest. I fly the FM2 regularly and to pull away from a dora or chase one down would be an impossible task with even alt and E. The only way to catch half the fighters in the MA with an FM2 is to gauge ahead of time when to dive down at a semi to steep angle to intercept. When they have used up some of their E reserve, it does give up an opportunity to "catch" them, but then again, so can other fighters. Admittedly, I still suck at this game, maybe in the top chart of the worst. But to perk the FM2????? For what reason, speed? Just over 300 light and level, I think not. Firepower??? 4 50's are hardly a massive death of destruction, especially when not within 450. Turning??? a good pilot in any "turner" plane can hold it's own. Roll????? FW's twirl faster than a baton. JABO??? 6 rockets and a couple of measly GP bombs is hardly the base closier.
I'm sure it was a frustrated gesture due to getting the best of him. Forget the RL stuff, this is a sim game.... and the question is: Does the FM2 have an overwhelming advantage over most or all MA aircraft.....hardly
My $.02
Good Hunting!!!!!
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Widewing,
The only problem I see with this post is that you are bringing to light a well kept secret. Geesh !!! :mad:
I have been flying this plane, amost exclusivly, and have been enjoying being underestimated and taken lightly by others.
I insist that you cease and desist with divulging any more information or statistics about the FM2. Let others, find out about it up close and personal. :D
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It ain't that hard to get kills and land them off a cv in that plane IMO .
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Sprocket, WTG!!
Kuer, Spit dweeb!
LOL
:D
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Heya Widewing,
I know you are friends with Corkey Myer but I really would have pause before I put the F6F in the same speed catogory with the F4U-1. Even Corkey said in his report that the F4U was about 25Knots faster at sea level. When you consider that most of that is due to drag since they had the same engine. How could they be the same at 20K? I know He reported that the low blower was more efficient in the F4U but really. 25Knots?
Even Vought list the F6F-5 as a 400MPH A/C in their test. And in the test between the Zeke and F6F/F4U the top speeds attained were 403MPH for the F6F-5 and 413MPH for the F4U-1D. I'm listing this from memory so I hope I'm right. It might even be 409MPH for the F6F-5 I'm not sure. Also the British tested these birds and had the F4U about 25MPH faster at 18K. 400MPH to about 375MPH but that was tested with a radar station I believe. I have to post that AFDU here soon.
In any case the F6F-5 is 400MPH bird but not quite...
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I have no actual data to back this up, but in my opinion the F4F and FM2 either turn much better than they should or the A6M2 and A6M5b turn much worse than they should. As it is, it is nigh suicide for an A6M of any kind to turn with an F4F / FM2 and must use its marginally better speed and climb to BnZ the F4F / FM2.
Wingloading and powerloading of six manuverable fighters ranked best to worst:
Wingloading:
A6M2:
Empty: 15.34lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 22.00lbs/sq.ft.
A6M5a:
Empty: 18.18lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 26.38lbs/sq.ft.
Spitfire Mk Vb:
Empty: 20.93lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 27.48lbs/sq.ft.
FM2:
Empty: 20.95lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 31.81lbs/sq.ft.
F4F-4:
Empty: 22.25lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 30.67lbs/sq.ft.
Spitfire Mk XIV:
Empty: 27.27lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 34.61lbs/sq.ft.
Powerloading:
Spitfire Mk XIV:
Empty: 3.22lbs/hp.
Loaded: 4.07lbs/hp.
Spitfire Mk Vb:
Empty: 3.52lbs/hp.
Loaded: 4.62lbs/hp.
A6M5a:
Empty: 3.69lbs/hp.
Loaded: 5.35lbs/hp.
A6M2:
Empty: 3.90lbs/hp.
Loaded: 5.59lbs/hp.
FM2:
Empty: 4.04lbs/hp.
Loaded: 6.08lbs/hp.
F4F-4:
Empty: 4.82lbs/hp.
Laoded: 6.65lbs/hp.
Unless there is something funky going on with the F4Fs wings it should not be outturning A6Ms often, and should be about a match for the Spitfire Mk V, though the Mk V can probably sustain the turn longer.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I have no actual data to back this up, but in my opinion the F4F and FM2 either turn much better than they should or the A6M2 and A6M5b turn much worse than they should. As it is, it is nigh suicide for an A6M of any kind to turn with an F4F / FM2 and must use its marginally better speed and climb to BnZ the F4F / FM2.
My experience is that the FM-2 is about equal to the A6M5, but inferior in turning ability to the A6M2. Which is historically accurate.
When I am defending a base against FM-2s or F4Fs, I take the A6M2 and have no difficulty out-turning the Wildcats.
My regards,
Widewing
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Part of the problem might be the fact that the A6M5 we have is basically the worst one.
J_A_B
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Come on dude, this doesn't even warrant a post on the BBS.
Do you really think tha Pyro, HT, anc Co. would *ever* perk the FM-2?
Not flaming you at all - but have some faith in the common sense of the guys who run HTC. Just because someone whines about something in the MA doesn't mean it has a hope in hell of happening.
Mike/wulfie
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Widewing,
Seems to me that the F4F-4 should turn about like a Spitfire Mk Vb (which turns worse than the A6M5b), and the FM2 should turn slightly worse than the Spitfire Mk Vb and F4F-4. The crude numbers make it look that way to me in any case.
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Originally posted by wulfie
Come on dude, this doesn't even warrant a post on the BBS.
Do you really think tha Pyro, HT, anc Co. would *ever* perk the FM-2?
Not flaming you at all - but have some faith in the common sense of the guys who run HTC. Just because someone whines about something in the MA doesn't mean it has a hope in hell of happening.
Mike/wulfie
It was posted out of a sense of amazement, not concern. As in amazement that you misunderstood the post.
Secondly, this is a "general discussion" board, and therefore beyond the jurisdiction of the self-appointed BBS police. ;)
My regards,
Widewing
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seems to me that the f4f and fm2 should in no way match the zero in turns and I must say ive never seen it happen.
is it true that in AH it can??
seems to me every american plane in this game performs to some kind of propaganda report on their performance? when you read about them in combat reports you hear stories like them having to engage in numbers because it was deadly to turn with the japanese planes etc but it rarely seems to match what we see in AH.I have to say i think HTC being an american company catering for american players has much to do with it.I dont know if its overmodelling of their fighters or undermodelling of other nations fighters but there can be little doubt that the american planes in this game have the top performers in most areas.I only hope it has some ring of truth to it(fm2 outturning zeros? etc) but i suspect its just a tweak here and there to please the americans customers.sorry thats just the way it appears to me.
look at the difference in performance in AH to the other simulators like CFS, IL2 etc.The difference is quite enourmous so someone must be wrong.If i saw a few really badly performing areas in AH i might just suspect all thos other games have it wrong but after seeing how much damage the f6fs and f4fs can take, how easy they are to fly compared to LW planes, the way they all seem to climb like love sick angels with over 3000 lbs of ordinance etc I begin to suspect this isnt really the case.
I have started to fly more allied stuff in AH purely because i got sick of the things that happen flying LW planes that frustrate and annoy.especially weak wing tips/ engine oil / radiators, 50 cal super guns vs super weak 13mm etc and Ive come to regard AH as a game rather than a sim.I try to ignore all the stuff on the bbs now claiming its all perfectly correct too, I have books written by british pilots about LW planes and american bomber crews that seem to contradict what i see in AH, but ive given up trying to see why.It just gets even more frustrating.
Im looking forward to seeing how the shooting star outperforms the me262 in AH (lol), I bet it will dont you?
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This thread turned into LW conspiracy thread pretty fast .
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Originally posted by hazed-
seems to me that the f4f and fm2 should in no way match the zero in turns and I must say ive never seen it happen.
is it true that in AH it can??
seems to me every american plane in this game performs to some kind of propaganda report on their performance? when you read about them in combat reports you hear stories like them having to engage in numbers because it was deadly to turn with the japanese planes etc but it rarely seems to match what we see in AH.I have to say i think HTC being an american company catering for american players has much to do with it.I dont know if its overmodelling of their fighters or undermodelling of other nations fighters but there can be little doubt that the american planes in this game have the top performers in most areas.I only hope it has some ring of truth to it(fm2 outturning zeros? etc) but i suspect its just a tweak here and there to please the americans customers.sorry thats just the way it appears to me.
look at the difference in performance in AH to the other simulators like CFS, IL2 etc.The difference is quite enourmous so someone must be wrong.If i saw a few really badly performing areas in AH i might just suspect all thos other games have it wrong but after seeing how much damage the f6fs and f4fs can take, how easy they are to fly compared to LW planes, the way they all seem to climb like love sick angels with over 3000 lbs of ordinance etc I begin to suspect this isnt really the case.
I have started to fly more allied stuff in AH purely because i got sick of the things that happen flying LW planes that frustrate and annoy.especially weak wing tips/ engine oil / radiators, 50 cal super guns vs super weak 13mm etc and Ive come to regard AH as a game rather than a sim.I try to ignore all the stuff on the bbs now claiming its all perfectly correct too, I have books written by british pilots about LW planes and american bomber crews that seem to contradict what i see in AH, but ive given up trying to see why.It just gets even more frustrating.
Im looking forward to seeing how the shooting star outperforms the me262 in AH (lol), I bet it will dont you?
LOL Hazed....WTG!!
You have uncovered the conspiracy.
Better watch out for the black helicopters and dont forget to wear your aluminum foil hat when you go out today.
:rolleyes:
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self-appointed BBS police
Ouch !! that's a harsh term..
I'm just keeping my eye on the CAPITALS..
Someone has to do it..
I was just man enough to step up to the plate..
Carry on, not seeing a problem here..
Hazed just head over to WB, there's enough posts on FM's over there to keep the most avid quibbler busy for years...
Bad read though, unless your one of the quibblers. Make sure you have oodles of sourses, and brush up on your math. There are a few quibblers there that know there stuff. Ho Hun for example.
And as a side, you can talk ballistics. But as with FM's do your homework. They have a few years on ya :)
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I think you guys missed my point.
I dont care what you think about what i said.This is how my mind is made up after almost 3 years of playing AH.If you think different then fine no problem.I didnt say this because im annoyed or demanding change etc.Its just how AH seems to me and a few others i have spoken to.
what i will still say is AH is the best online flight GAME.Ive accepted that the aircraft in it are made to match a set of data that HTC have and thats it.The fact that it doesnt tie in with other information i have read or books on air combat is pretty much a mute point.If you choose to believe AH is exactly accurate then good for you, enjoy it.I choose to play it as its the best online game of its type for overall enjoyment but not necessarily the most accurate for models.
After playing for years with everyone on the bb claiming this is exactly as they were and then seeing adustment after adustment to models /behaviour etc by HTC you cant help but come to realise that no computer model is perfectly accurate, I dont care how many times people show charts etc for data to prove HTC is right because the simple fact of the matter is an error in the programme can make the data irrelevent.
think about it.
Myself i choose to believe accounts from the people that flew them and the books like
'combat crew' by john comer
'wings of the luftwaffe' captain eric brown cbe,dsc afc rn.
'the first and the last' Adolf Galland
'focke wulf aces of the western front' john weal
'p40 aces of north africa' carl molesworth
'focke wulf 190 in combat' Alfred price
'JG26' Donald L.Caldwell
and many others which allow you to build a clearer picture about what the aircraft I tend to like, ie LW planes really performed like.
and believe me im not out to boast they were the best or any crap like that but I do know from what ive read they were a bit better than what we have in AH.
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Widewing, thanks for your indepth, historical info.
A good read!
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How often have we heard the above? It seems to me that whenever a guy in a lesser plane kills an über plane, it's down to *skill*. And when said über plane is killed, its pilot is whining about flight model porkage, game suckage, whatever. My friend Jedi over on the Warbirds AGW had this to say to a guy who was whining about flight models under similar circumstances.
The REALLY funny thing about this discussion is that 99.9% of you guys would agree that the "deciding factor" in a dogfight is the skill of the PILOT, i.e. YOU. "It's the man, not the machine," right Chuck? But then every one of you uses an example of how you outturned some guy in what is supposed to be a "better turning" plane, (or, more likely, YOU were outturned by some guy in what was supposed to be a "worse turning" plane) and then immediately jump to the conclusion that the PLANE is the thing that's porked, not his tactics, or yours.
So what happened to pilot skill? Or was every guy you outturned just as much of an "aviation God" as YOU are? (Of course, it's just a little bit silly to argue about a situation you really shouldn't be stupid enough to get into in the first place --low alt flat turnfight in late war planes-- if you're REALLY so "experienced" that we should take your "skill" as a given, but let's not look at THAT too closely, shall we?)
Funny how the "ancient truths" of flightsimdom get switched off whenever we need to "prove" some agenda, eh?
I struggle to see what the big deal is here, as one who has shot and killed an Me262 from my humble Hurri-2. That incident occurred because the 262 had established a bounce pattern, and I knew where to wait for him next time he zoomed up. Seems like the FM2 pilot in the above scenario v the Typhoon made a similar judgement.
Chances are, all the flight models are porked in some way. So STFU, and get on with the game!
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At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader I have to say I agree 100% with beet1e
Energy is very important in AtA combat the Typh pilot didnt use it well or maybe he positioned himself badly and got is bellybutton shot up
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Originally posted by Imp
I the risk of sounding like a cheerleader I have to say I agree 100% with beet1e
Energy is very important in AtA combat the Typh pilot didnt use it well or maybe he positioned himself badly and got is bellybutton shot up
Here’s an example of how to do it right:
Last evening the Knits were pressing us pretty hard (Rooks could only muster about 50 players). We had about 8 aircraft up defending a field. Several Knits came in at about 10k, but one Typhoon arrived at 15k. As the lower aircraft dropped in on the field, virtually all of the defensive fighters followed them down. I was at 8k climbing in my FM-2 and elected to continue doing so. Once the Tiffy pilot saw the fighter coverage down on the deck, he rolled in. At very high speed, he made for the VH. I rolled in too, but had only about 150 mph in the bank, so I angled to intercept him on his pullout. Well, the Tiffy was clearly going too fast to have a hope of being precise with his rockets, and most, if not all, missed the VH. However, he was smart and did not immediately pull into a steep climb. All I could muster was a sharp angle deflection shot at about 600 yards. I got a few strikes, but nothing that did visible damage. Staying low for about 5k, the Tiffy extended away from the field, and then zoomed up to altitude. He did it right, and with practice will be able to get more rockets on target.
My regards,
Widewing
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Gee Widewing thanks for this valuable lecture about how to attack a VH....
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Originally posted by deSelys
Gee Widewing thanks for this valuable lecture about how to attack a VH....
deSelys, based upon the numbers posted in your last 10 tours, clearly an expert on your level has no need for such examples...:rolleyes:
Widewing
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Well, at least I have a sex life!
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In tests conducted in late 1944 between an FM-2 and a Zero 25 the NAS at Patuxent discovered the following:
The FM-2's turning circle at low speeds was very similar to that of the Zero. The Zero needed eight and a half full turns to gain a killing shot on the FM-2. The high-speed turning circle of the FM-2 was superior to that of the Zero. (paraphrased)
Ergo, under the right conditions, the FM-2 had the ability to "outturn" the Zero.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by deSelys
Well, at least I have a sex life!
Ah, so you're ambidextrous! :eek:
Widewing
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You know, for most people, sex is an activity involving (at least ;) ) 2 persons.
Of course, with 128+ hours online last month and already 45+ hours bagged this month, I understand you don't have much time for anything else...
(yup, stats pages cut both ways...)
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Originally posted by deSelys
You know, for most people, sex is an activity involving (at least ;) ) 2 persons.
I think that in your case, you may need to be more specific...
Why is it that when faced with the emptiness of their own words, some people feel compelled to engage in adhoc personal attacks?
Widewing
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Wide,
And how empty is to ignore one's comment because his 'score' is less than yours?
And how empty is it to say 'Wide, you don't even deserve a reply because you're only ranked 303th in the attack damage/death+1 score while I'm ranked 1st!' (please check...it's pretty amazing how the score system computes ranking...).
Lectures from people I don't consider as experts, and especially when I haven't asked for, particularly annoy me. So, if you think you've discovered the Holy Grail of ACM in the 'flat-out-on-the-deck-extension-after-a-divebomb-attack'...do I have to continue?
-this paragraph was edited-
Widewing, I hadn't realized your age until I just checked your profile. Honestly, and without trying to offense you, I thought you were much younger. Hence the tone of my previous post, and this edit.
Please accept my sincere apologies if I hurted you.
This being said, I still maintain that
1) your 'look-at-my-skills' posts don't do you much good in this community...IMHO.
2) there are other things in life than your AH score. There certainly are other thing in life than my AH score.
-end of edit-
Oh, btw, I don't feel the FM2 should be perked. But I think its ENY value should be lowered to around 25 (like the A6M5). It is a really easy plane to fly and fight in: I bagged 4 kills in it during my 1st sortie....and as you pointed out I am a dweeb.
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Originally posted by deSelys
Wide,
And how empty is to ignore one's comment because his 'score' is less than yours?
And how empty is it to say 'Wide, you don't even deserve a reply because you're only ranked 303th in the attack damage/death+1 score while I'm ranked 1st!' (please check...it's pretty amazing how the score system computes ranking...).
Lectures from people I don't consider as experts, and especially when I haven't asked for, particularly annoy me. So, if you think you've discovered the Holy Grail of ACM in the 'flat-out-on-the-deck-extension-after-a-divebomb-attack'...do I have to continue?
Finally, if you feel personally attacked by my 2 previous posts....well I'm sorry I had guessed right.
Oh, btw, I don't feel the FM2 should be perked. But I think its ENY value should be lowered to around 25 (like the A6M5). It is a really easy plane to fly and fight in: I bagged 4 kills in it during my 1st sortie....and as you pointed out I am a dweeb.
Nice try at deflecting the issue with a strawman argument, but that plow won't scour.
We had discussed why the original Tiffy driver lost his fighter. My example was presented to show what he should have done. Inasmuch as this community has a fast growing body of noobs, that information maybe useful to them. Old hands already know this.
It was not a lecture in any sense of the word nor assumed anything about anyone. Your comment, "Gee Widewing thanks for this valuable lecture about how to attack a VH...." was nothing less than condencending. My response, was in line with your tone, "deSelys, based upon the numbers posted in your last 10 tours, clearly an expert on your level has no need for such examples..."
As to this misplaced remark, "Lectures from people I don't consider as experts, and especially when I haven't asked for, particularly annoy me."
Hmm... Define "expert" please. Does hitting your targets and rarely getting shot down qualify? If not, WTF does? Then again, I don't consider myself an expert, but note that the "experts" won't disagree either.
Secondly, I do not need your permission to post anything. Are you clear on that? Are you annoyed? Aw, poor little deSelys, life's tough isn't it?. Get a grip.....
Finally, I assigned the value to your initial comment solely based upon its merit, which was zero, being nothing more than a snide, ill mannered troll, that ramped up to a personal attack when you were confronted.
Widewing
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Hey Widewing,
The misunderstanding was done by me.
I really thought you were annoyed because you thought this guy's complaint was going to possibly cause some change in perk values, etc. In that context, I was just saying 'don't worry about it'.
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by Widewing
...Then again, I don't consider myself an expert...
I try really hard to believe you...but....somehow...I can't.
We could continue this forever, and we would both look like tulips (if we don't already), but I prefer to let you win this one. I don't have the eloquence nor the free time to make worthy replies to your prose.
Of course you have the right to post what you want, don't misunderstand me. And I have the right to say what I think about it, if I feel the need. Don't worry for me, I'll survive this ordeal.
Btw, about the 'personal attack': I edited my last post 20 mins before you replied. I apology again (no irony intended).
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Where do I begin ?
Widewing, trying from multiple angles I'm striking out on all attempts.
If I've struck out, well it's not from giving a shot.
Last shot, I'll give it a go.
I see what your attempting to accomplish, and I see what your attempts are resulting in. Evidently you don't.
You are accomplished in what you set out to do. What you fail to realize is that "your" goals don't necessarily transpose to the goals of the general populous and are rebuffed on a regular basis.
WHY is that ???
The primary reason, the most important reason, is that everything you post says "LOOK AT ME", aren't I just the cat's meow.
Well, if a person is attempting to do as you do, you WOULD have some valuable information on how to go about doing as you do.
The VAST majority of players here could give a rats patooot about doing what you do, or on how to go about it.
Fellow squad member deSelys only posted a general feeling on what your posts convey.
Put your ear to the rails, you'd have to be deaf to not hear what they say...
I on the other hand thought you could give me some tips or insites on "mindset" which I wrote to you on Saturday I believe. For some strange reason it must have been lost in the mail.......
Never heard back :confused:
No matter..
In contrast, I recieved some films from Wldthing on Drex doing his "Drex" thing, and wrote him back a thanks...
And wouldn't you know it ?? Drex dropped me a film that he did last night because...
He's got class.
And that has nothing what so ever to do about his score ;)
You just don't get it. I got a couple of years on ya, and I see a green shade in the chest area.
Fogitabotit..
I'm done, finished, the bottle of milk, the checkered flag, the Ms. Alabama smack on the kisser.........
Not to speak of the endorsements...
And by the way deSelys is one of those guys that hands people their lunch
I talked about "lunch" but it got lost in the mail..........
<> hold the phone - OH MY GOD !!<< edit >>
LOL :D Took a look at the films that Wldthing and Drex sent me...
You want to see what 99.999 % of the general populous would give there left "man orb" to be able to do ???
It ain't got nothin to do with score. Score is something you strive for when "this" isn't in the realm of possiblity..
If you can do this, score is silly..
REALLY silly.
Of course score isn't in there for me either, my cross to bear.
Noticed over time that the guys with "stone" pretty much know it, don't need anyone to tell them they do, and lend a helping hand when they can..
What a concept..
So I have my choice, I'll take this..
In a HEARTBEAT :D
Drop me a mail, hopefully it won't get lost..
But I've noticed mail has been sorta iffy lately Widewing ;)
nopoops190@worldnet.att.net
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Originally posted by poopster
Where do I begin ?
I on the other hand thought you could give me some tips or insites on "mindset" which I wrote to you on Saturday I believe. For some strange reason it must have been lost in the mail.......
Never heard back :confused:
Drop me a mail, hopefully it won't get lost..
But I've noticed mail has been sorta iffy lately Widewing ;)
nopoops190@worldnet.att.net
Sorry Poop, everything from here goes to an account I check about once a week. I found it and will answer you tomorrow.
Sorry for the delay, my fault.
Talk to you later.
My regards,
Widewing
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Yea! Typical!
Perk the Me262!!
I was flying along in my 262 and I caught this C47 as he did not extend like he should of after the drop of drunks! I was able to catch him in his turn and pinged his wing with 27 30mm shots! If he would of extended he would of outpaced me.
He called over Ch1 to "Perk the 262!!!"
Yea! Perk the 262! HA! Fat chance!!!
What a dweeb!!
I'm pretty sure I increased my score with the downing of that C47!!!
Hail Swagger!!!!!
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Cool Widewing, I look forward to your views.
And I'll bang you back a film.
Definatly a must see :)
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Originally posted by poopster
Cool Widewing, I look forward to your views.
And I'll bang you back a film.
Definatly a must see :)
Hey Poopster! Pardon my being late, but I’ve had some complications here. My aunt (and God Mother) died early Monday morning. Then, as if that was not quite enough, my daughter’s boyfriend of the past year died last evening as a result of a head injury sustained when he was tossed from a pickup truck that struck a telephone pole (he was riding in the truck bed). He was just 18 and looking ahead to college. So, I will try to squeeze my e-mail in between work and wakes. Maybe even get some flying in too (I can use the distraction).
My best,
Widewing
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Very sorry to hear this Widewing. My condolances to your daughter and the boy's family. Death at such a young age is a tragic occurance.
xBAT
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Originally posted by airspro
It ain't that hard to get kills and land them off a cv in that plane IMO .
i lost a 15kill FM2 sortie to a buff formation lockup when FM2 1st came out :(
whels
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Jeez Wide man and I thought I had a bad day.
When you can, no problem, take care of business and wish the family all the best.