Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on September 14, 2002, 06:37:44 AM
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Well you liberals?
Since you are all so eager to call anyone who confronts potential or actual arab terrorists a racist why wasnt the reaction of the Flight 93 passengers not a case of racial profiling?
They were clearly arab muslims who took the plane and threatend it with a "bomb".
The passengers knew of the other suicide plane attacks.
Why wasnt it a case of racial profiling for them to put the two together and assume their plane was going to do the same?
So in trying to kill or confront the alleged (they were never conviced of the crime ) arab muslim terrorists on Flight 93 only on the assumption based on the ethnicity of the arab suicide type bombers and knowlege of the other attacks, did the Flight 93 passengers commit a hate crime of racial profiling?
How is this case different from all the other cases of racial profiling you liberals whine and lie about?
BTW I fully expect you liberals, well maybe except elfenwolf, to try to evade and deny this. Even you guys couldnt attack the Flight 93 heroes - the passengers, not the terrorists for some of you more rabid leftists. But who kows maybe you will. But it clearly seems to fit your criteria for a hate crime of racial profiling...
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Udie, don't do it, shoot Groinhertz instead, and quick.
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Grunherz this is very stupid.
You are the first person I have ever heard or read to even have the imagination to come up with such claim.
And then you throw the ball at the liberals as if they are the ones to come up with such nonsense?
-edit for making an effort to be more sensible-
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I obviously dont think it was racial profiling...
But honestly I pose the question where our liberal friends draw the line between common sense obvious assumpitions ( Flight 93) and their claims of supposedly racist assumptions called "racial profiling".
Now I admit its a very risky on my part using Flight 93 but its also a very poignant case to examine for proponets of the racial profiling propaganda method.
So liberals why is this different. Plus you cant use 20/20 hindsight as a crutch to your upcoming pathetic excuses.
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Plus you cant use 20/20 hindsight as a crutch to your upcoming pathetic excuses.
That statement shows that you have little intention of taking into consideration anything they have to say, so why do you bother to ask in the first place?
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Well its a bit of bait... :D
But I do stand with the no 20/20 hindsight part.
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Heh, we really need a dipshit of the week award.
Of course, there wouldn't be much suspense from week to week with Grunherz around.
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We also need a Lifelong Award for Vitriolic Stupidity.
BTW.... Grunherz = Cabby?
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So you leftist types dont see Flight 93 as a possible type of racial profiling incident?
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Well, of course, flight 93 was pure racial! There were white people on that plane. That in itself makes it racial. Never mind the box cutter etc.
Besides, you have to remember that only liberals are able to read minds and make any kind of determination as to whether any crime is racial or a "hate crime".
We must trust liberals as they only have good intentions towards everyone. Well, except conservatives as we all know conservatives are evil. But, of course, that isn't profiling because liberals are incapable of profiling,right? Hmmmmm, or could liberals be profiling conservatives? Geez, I guess I must be wrong as liberals only have good intentions. Gosh, I wonder what the word "profiling" means to a liberal? We know for sure that it evokes feelings by liberals. I wonder what kind of feelings it evokes from them?
So many unanswered questions.
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Once the knife is pulled or the gun raised it quits being a racial issue and instead becomes a survival issue. It could have been any special interest or minority group, but by the time the Flight 93 passengers rushed the hijackers they were well aware the intent of the hijackers was to use the plane as a bomb against ground targets. They had no logical choice but to try and save their lives by rushing the cockpit.
Conversely I'm surprised nothing is ever said about the inaction taken by the passengers in the Pentagon jet. They knew about WTC and according to phone conversations knew they were going to die yet they did nothing to try to save themselves. Does this mean they didn't act because of racial profiling?
Racial profiling is when an officer pulls a black person over for driving around in a white neighborhood, for instance. Racial (or gender) profiling occurs at the check-in gate when I'm asked to remove my shoes yet a Nun isn't. Racial profiling is when a pilot refuses to take off until four men of Middle Eastern heritage are removed from his plane.
In the case of the cop pulling over the black kid driving in a white neighborhood is it a case of racial profiling if there'd been a rash of area burgulries committed by a black suspect? In California the CHP had to keep a log noting the race of all their stops. Maybe racial profiling occurs when a cop let a black driver keep speeding yet pulls me over because he's already had too many stops of African Americans.
Should I be offended that I have to remove my shoes yet the Nun doesn't? I'm profiled to be a more likely hijacking suspect than the Nun, so the screener is using common sense. This kind of profiling is acceptable in my eyes, but the danger of racial profiling is what happened when a jet refused to allow Middle Eastern passengers on board- it can quickly become racial predijuce. That's my concern with racial profiling.
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"Once the knife is pulled or the gun raised it quits being a racial issue and instead becomes a survival issue."
I wonder what could have been done before it became a survival issue? Now that we know more after 9-11 are we as a society willing to offend some to avoid any future survival issues? I bet not. It's more important to avoid offending then providing security. Because of our political correctness attitude each of us puts our lives on the line anytime we enter public transportation.
The race card is a tool only for the terroists. Will we allow this tool to cost additional lives? I hope not, but the fear of being labeled a racist may tempor someone's judgement at a security point.
When the do-gooders get through with the woman that reported the alligator-ally guys, she will never report anything in the future and others will learn not to report also! Score one for the terroists!
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Originally posted by Elfenwolf
Conversely I'm surprised nothing is ever said about the inaction taken by the passengers in the Pentagon jet. They knew about WTC and according to phone conversations knew they were going to die yet they did nothing to try to save themselves. Does this mean they didn't act because of racial profiling?
Hmmm, did they recover the black box from flight 77? It seems to me they didn't but I could be wrong. What makes you so sure there wasn't an attempt to stop the hijackers on that flight Elfenwolf?
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Originally posted by Creamo
Udie, don't do it, shoot Groinhertz instead, and quick.
man cant believe you got away with that one..lol
GH..shake your head you clown.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Hmmm, did they recover the black box from flight 77? It seems to me they didn't but I could be wrong. What makes you so sure there wasn't an attempt to stop the hijackers on that flight Elfenwolf?
Because one woman said via cellphone that they were huddled in the back of the plane and the hijackers had killed a stewardess. She indicated they knew about WTC, so I'm making an assumption that as the jet hit the Pentagon if the passengers were attempting to gain the cockpit they were unsuccessful.
I'm not faulting any passengers on any jet prior to 9-11-01 for remaining seated after the hijackings because up to that point nobody imagined hijackers would use planes as suicide weapons. If a hijacking were to occur today I imagine every passenger and every crew member would be willing to go down fighting. 9-11 changed all the rules.
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You may be right that there was no attempt to prevent the ramming of the pentagon.
Any idea at what point in the flight that call was made? I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't have tried to stop them knowing they were about to die.
Obviously any attempt that may have been made was unsuccesful but that doesn't mean they didn't overwhelm the hijackers in the passenger area but couldn't get into the cockpit.
Unless there is evidence of what happened in the last 5-10 minutes of flight I guess we'll never know.
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Iron, I was wondering that right after I posted. Maybe the angle of decent was too steep for the passengers to even leave their seats or, if they did, they couldn't get past the hijackers guarding the cockpit. One thing for sure is that the hijackers knew the passengers would react like it was a more typical hijacking and the plane would land soon. In fact the hijackers even told passengers exactly that. I'll bet that's the last time the American flying public falls for that one, huh?
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i have yet to see anything but circumstantial evidence that confirms the 19 accused commited these crimes - - for all we know Tim McVeigh's right wing terrorist buddies did this $hi+, making sure there would be a muslim on the flight before they picked their planes, knowing the muslims would take the blame, as initially happened in OK city (the only comperable act of terrorism in the US since 1812)...
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Oh my, it's the reincarnation of Franjo Tudjman again. Well, no wonder Groinhurts has a personal vendetta against anything that might be considered (by him) leftist or liberal, he thinks he's the mighty Croatian ruler who was a selfdeclared fascist. Glad to see we have our own BBS Ustasa.
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Tujman was a bad guy not quite on the level of Milosevic but he caused a lot of harm. But I dont see what that has to do with the discussion. Since you changed the subject and started the insults, I would like to ask a question seeing that you are Dutch.
So Thud which UN war criminal at Srebrenica were you, the General perhaps? Or were one of the APC drivers who ran over dozens of innocent Bosnians while running away?
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I wonder what a profile on Grunherz would look like?
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LOL, at Srebrenica there was no Dutch general, and it strikes me as a bit dubious that you, who supported quite some of the Croatian actions in the wars were talking about (deducted solely from your ridiculous outburst on these forums I must admit) worries about the faith of bosnian muslims, the same Croatia was at war with too, remember? No need to describe what happened to these heh? Furthermore the Dutch 'peace'keepers never ran refugees over with their armored vehicles, better check your sources and distinguish between facts and urban legends boy.
BTW if you just had posted this thread without aiming it at the people you call liberals, you would just have made a stupid impression, now everybody wonders whether your voices told you you're senator McCarthy and must rid this BBS of all these dirty lefties....... :rolleyes: would laugh if it wasn't so sad
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Our fighting with the Bosnians was probably the saddest thing of the whole war in a common sense sort of way. It was part of a scheme dreamt up by Tujman and Milosevic to take over Bosnia... I thought it was sad.
So Thud what was the cause of this personal attack? Were you actually one of the Dutch UN guys over there?
A profile of me Sir Loin? What would like to know?
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Hmmm, seems to me that the reasoning behind my 'attack' is more than sufficiently described in my last paragraph two posts up, isn't it?
Well let me say that your almost hysteric ranting against anything left or leftist provoked me into it. Not so much the attacking of the left itself, but the same idiocracy with which Mr. Reed (check the sane and rational thread) throws all muslims on a big pile you do that with anything not as right wing as Franjo (check your UN post from yesterday FO). For someone like yourself it's probably necessary to clarify further that if you would call everyone and everything 'rightist' etc. you would make the same pathetic impression.
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But I disagree that Reed lumps every Molslem into the terrorsist pile. It is a matter of interpretation and personal values. Its beyond my personal morals to see innocent moslem citizens as terrorists - ceratinly more likely to be potential islamic extremist terroists- but not proof of them being so.
Growing up my best friend was muslim. So I would never see all of the muslims piled randomly into the ranks of terrorists as you and dutch UN comrades helped pile them into serb busses at Srebrnica.
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Well better not being able to do anything about the refugees being piled into busses by the serbs because a far superior force threatens you and your few lightly armed comrades than killing them yourself as your Croatian comrades did.
BTW I did not say that you generalized all muslims, just said that Reed did that which is hardly a matter of interpretation.
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At least we killed people humanely and on purpose and not by running them over with tanks while we ran away.
Im curious, can you tell me what people getting crushed by tank tracks sounds like? Is it a squish type noise or more like crunch type noise?
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Yeah, never heard of a genocide that wasn't on purpose. But humanely?!? You are indeed confused.
The other things in your post don't deserve to be dignified with a response, if you can't post facts then babble on about your funny stories, good luck.
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On a related note five terrorists in the NY area were arrested after tips from the Moslem community to law enforcement. I saw that on Fox News Network and quit looking at me like I drive a Niki just cause I watch Fox. Sheeesh, Purists.
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Wow! Great observation Grun! Brilliant! Your powers of deduction and retrospection are unparalleled! Your ability to point out the one thing that will make liberals cower in their holes is immense! I bow to your wisdom on this matter! Amazing... truely amazing! I promise to vote the straight Republican ticket next election to assuage my guilt at the liberal hypocrisy you have so deftly brought to light.
not!
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Hmmm...
Why not honestly answer the question like Elfenwolf did. Otherwise you are just avoiding your own guilt.
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Jeez, the thread opener is moronic, even for you GRUNHERZ.
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Answer the question liberals. Why would you draw the line there? Except for the fact that they died, I bet some of you would have attacked them for assuming the mid east men on the plane would have crashed into a building based on their race.
Remember hindsight and obvious current circumstances are not typically allowed in a discusion of racial profiling.
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A.D.D can be cured..Give now.
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There was once this crackpot idiot named Velikovsky, who claimed that Venus was actually a chunk of Jupiter that flew off, careened close enough to the Earth to stop the rotation, thereby explaining the Sun stopping in the sky for Joshua.
Velikovsky used to rant at the "mainstream scientists" who refused to acknowledge his theory. He would attack them with statements like, "if you cannot reply my theories must have validity".
Velikovsky made even more sense than you GRUN.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I obviously dont think it was racial profiling...
But honestly I pose the question where our liberal friends draw the line between common sense obvious assumpitions ( Flight 93) and their claims of supposedly racist assumptions called "racial profiling".
Now I admit its a very risky on my part using Flight 93 but its also a very poignant case to examine for proponets of the racial profiling propaganda method.
So liberals why is this different. Plus you cant use 20/20 hindsight as a crutch to your upcoming pathetic excuses.
OK, just because we love your psychotic blathering!
Racial profiling means that there is NO OTHER reason than race to do whatever it is you are doing...pull someone over, search someone, abuse someones rights.
It seems pretty obvious to me that there were other circumstances besides race of the hijackers that would lead the people of 93 to act. Such as ... a dead stewardess? A guy saying he's wearing a bomb, The fact that all hijacked planes that day went into a building up to that time.
Now I admit its a very risky on my part
The only thing you risked here was our opinion of your intelligence.
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No libural NCO's in the military Grun-- no homos.. Why a fine strappin' 23 yr old like yourself you'd be happy as pigs in a pocket. So why don't you enlist?... Show these evil liburals how patriotic you are! They'll send you forthwith to Gutter!. Either that or you can have Cabby drive you in his cab over to Castro street. Heh-heh
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Apparently random searches are more effective than profiled searches.
http://swissnet.ai.mit.edu/6805/student-papers/spring02-papers/caps.htm
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Well if race is the only factor in a case of racial profiling then why did a bunch of you liberals get your panties twisted up in a bunch about "racial profiling" last few days when a dark skinned mexican in Ohio was searched and arrested when he said "Im here to set the bomb" in big high rise building. Or when the 3 Florida muslim arabs were arrested after making those jokes and threats about 911. Obviously you guys factor a lot more into it when calling it a hate crime of racial profiling than you admit here.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you leftist types dont see Flight 93 as a possible type of racial profiling incident?
If Grunherz was on Flight 93:
"Hmmm.. I wonder if those guys with knives who are beating the flight attendant and screaming at everyone are hijackers? They kind of look like Arabs."
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I can't believe I read the whole thing...
Tronsky
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"maybe we should attack them and fly this plane into the ground just cause of how they look"
"ya huh huh ya" :p
Originally posted by Montezuma
If Grunherz was on Flight 93:
"Hmmm.. I wonder if those guys with knives who are beating the flight attendant and screaming at everyone are hijackers? They kind of look like Arabs."
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You know, it is threads like this that make me think that we need to get rid of SETI. Then we can use those funds and start up a program called STI.
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Originally posted by Mathman
You know, it is threads like this that make me think that we need to get rid of SETI. Then we can use those funds and start up a program called STI.
There's a good reason we're searching for intelligent life. We want proof that it exists.
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Well I guess this did indeed go too far. :(
But my intent was simple. I wrote the post in order to provoke a discussion on what the limit or threshold for "racial profiling" is. If you remember this was the day when the 3 Muslim guys were arrested in florida. The whole day liberals in the media and on the BBS were ranting "racial profiling" this or "racial profiling" that. When indeed the case was clearly about what the three men were reported as saying about 911 and a 913, not simply their race. There was also a case in Ohio where some "dark" skinned man was arrested and caused a high rise evacuation because he said something about planting bombs. Again the liberals cried foul about racism - and again ignoring the very actions that man took in order to get in so much trouble.
The Flight 93 reference was an attempt at extreme exxageration of that idea I see from liberals all the time when they cry about supposed incidents of racial profiling. They will ignore the persons acts, which would likey have caused a reaction from authorities regardless of race, and only focus on the fact that they are of a certain race.
Its interesting that only Elefenwolf appeared to get my point as I predicted, but too all others I say dont take yourself so serious and I apologize to those who were really hurt.
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there was also a sikh killed after the WTC
And the sikh are far from being muslim !