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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: No609Beef on April 28, 2001, 04:58:00 AM

Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: No609Beef on April 28, 2001, 04:58:00 AM
Please forgive me everyone,but after flying this since Beta...I think the only challenging plane to fly is the F6F.It seems to respond to idiotic stick movement.I used to fear my joystick in AW3/WB's/EAW.I always held it too tight and yanked it too hard with the usual spin/stall that would leave me a sitting bull for pepper spray.But I fear nothing in my Spit9,or my N1K2..or my pretty much anything else.It feels like a "Relaxed Realism" arena.The only thing I seem to have to deal with are blackouts,and even then I seem to be wearing a "G" suit.(Tight jeans help somewhat..)..I can't remember the last time I stalled out in battle.(back to that Sitting Bull feeling)..I miss it.."Ooops,I fugged that wingover"..Everything else about this sim is the best..Untouchable graphics/weapons/damage/immersion..etc..everything but that elusive FM.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Wilbus on April 28, 2001, 05:26:00 AM
UH?! Feels like you're wearing a G suit? The week buggers have a total blackout around 7g's!

 (http://saintaw.tripod.com/jg5wilbus.gif)




------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 Eismeer

"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be."

Adolf Galland
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Kweassa on April 28, 2001, 07:23:00 AM

 Try doing some rolls and turns with a G-10 at over 380 mph.. that'd be quite challenging

 ..

  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Gunslayer on April 28, 2001, 07:59:00 AM
Well the problem is obvious. You are flying 2 of the easiest planes to fly in aces. Its a general concensus that the FM of the N1k2 flight model is porked. The Spitfire is just a naturally easy plane to fly. Try the 109 or the p47, p38, even the f4u can give ya some trouble when you first start.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Sturm on April 28, 2001, 08:21:00 AM
Try turn fighting in a 190 A8 or F8.  I think that is a challenge right there.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Toad on April 28, 2001, 08:37:00 AM
Why is the board so full of trolls?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: No609Beef on April 28, 2001, 11:02:00 AM
I think it's important to discuss things like this without being called a troller.Am I the only one who thinks the planes seem to have a lack of stall/spin model that reduces the challenge somewhat?That's all this excellant sim is missing IMHO.

SirLoin out..
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: MrSiD on April 28, 2001, 11:31:00 AM
I've noticed too that I make less stupid mistakes and stick yanking and stalling than my first weeks of flightsims..

But that has nothing to do with FM, it's about learning. LOL.

Are you sure you're not experiencing the same?
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: MrLars on April 28, 2001, 12:11:00 PM
Turn off Combat Trim!


------------------
Lars
***MOL***
Men Of Leisure
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: -ammo- on April 28, 2001, 12:14:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Toad:
Why is the board so full of trolls?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Scored a 5 at best toad. Ive seen better trolls many times before. How do you rate this guy? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

ammo

Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Toad on April 28, 2001, 01:55:00 PM
Well, ammo, there is the possibility he is sincere.

However, I must admit when I first saw the post by a "no609beef" which doesn't even show a flight on the score page and it's post #7 overall I assumed it was one of the "perpetuals" out for a bit of fishing.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

SirLoin, however is apparently the player ID and is valid. So, maybe he's just new to posting here and really would like to discuss it with someone.

Sir Loin, if so, my apology. (I must say I appreciate it when guys post under their player name though. Allows me to compare what's said here with what's said and done in the actual game. Frame of reference, if you will. That's just me, I guess.)

Anyway, I nominate Funked as discussion leader.     (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)



[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-28-2001).]
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: 214thCavalier on April 28, 2001, 02:12:00 PM
Perhaps for once you should take somebodys constructive comments at face value, I have known Beefy for a long time now and he does not troll.
You may disagree with his thoughts thats fine, but you really need to loosen up and stop looking for trolls within every post.
Beefy btw knows how to exploit strengths and weaknesses of differing aircraft types (something many in AH cannot) and honed his skills on a ladder at which he did very well.
He also said he finds the FM very EASY in AH because of the lack of stalls / spins and a lack of sensitivity to stick grabbing.
If you grab at the stick here your more likely to get the stop stick stirring message rather than force a flight departure.
And i guess you all missed the bit about flying AH since Beta ?
Btw Beefy flies as Sirloin in AH if you care to check his stats.

[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 04-28-2001).]
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Toad on April 28, 2001, 02:17:00 PM
My deepest apologies.

Unfortunately, not all of us have had the pleasure of knowing "Beefy" at all.

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Dago on April 28, 2001, 03:54:00 PM
They had to make the FM easy for all them AW guys.     (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Heh heh, and of course, dont forget all them WB converts like me too.

Dago



[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 04-28-2001).]
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Dangerous Game on April 28, 2001, 05:01:00 PM
Hey Beef
I don't know what county you fly for but if your not a Rook try to slip a C47 past eskimo, that should help get your blood pumping again.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

------------------
DG 483rd Tactical Fighter/Bomber wing
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: No609Beef on April 28, 2001, 05:33:00 PM
HI again.I tried to change my Username for posting but get"Email Address Already Registered To A User" or something like that.I would like to change it though to avoid confusion(which I appologize for).Looking forward to joining the forum community and furthering AH to be the best WW2 online experience...Sneak a goony past Eskimo?That would be like trying to score on Curtis Joeseph..GO LEAFS!!!.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Dangerous Game on April 28, 2001, 05:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by No609Beef:
HI again.I tried to change my Username for posting but get"Email Address Already Registered To A User" or something like that.

ronni@hitechcreations.com < They will delete your user name for you so you can enter your new one with the same E-add.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Mighty1 on April 28, 2001, 11:12:00 PM
Beef ask the new people how easy AH is. They will tell you how hard the flight models are.

I was showing a friend a while back how to fly and I was telling him I don't use the rudder pedals very much but after I was flying for a few minutes he was laughing his bellybutton off. I asked him what was so funny he said that my feet were going to town on the rudder pedals. I never noticed till he mentioned it. I had done it so much it became second nature.

I think you've just gotten used to flying so much simple things like rudder control goes unnoticed.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Beegerite on April 29, 2001, 12:53:00 AM
I have never flow a high performance aircraft like a Corsair, ME109 or 190A8.   I have however flow a number of civilian s/e aircraft for around 4000 hrs.  I started flying in FA1.5 and used to think that the stall/spin model of the 190's there was extremely challenging and pretty accurate.  I love AH and fly it at least 2 hrs. every day but I would agree with you 100% One thing I do remember is that when the Chog was first introduced I had to use auto takeoff or I would wind up killing myself.  Guess this was the "ensign killer" simulation.  That is not here anymore.  As far as the 190 and 109's reputed pilot killing stall/spin and take/off landing characteristics, they are non existent.  I suspect that Fpr HTC to really get tough on the FM we're going to need one hell of a lot more subscribers so that they can create a totally separate arena for the reality junkies without killing and scaring away good paying customers.
Beeg

 
Quote
Originally posted by No609Beef:
I think it's important to discuss things like this without being called a troller.Am I the only one who thinks the planes seem to have a lack of stall/spin model that reduces the challenge somewhat?That's all this excellant sim is missing IMHO.

SirLoin out..

Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 29, 2001, 01:02:00 AM
190s were the unstable stalling spinning types, 109s were very stable and basically very pleasant planes at mid speeds, the heavy late 109s were harder on landing though.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Fuzzybunny on April 29, 2001, 01:14:00 AM
Go play AirWarrior for a week then come back here. I did that for some old squad mates and it took me a week to get back to form in AH.
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Jekyll on April 29, 2001, 03:52:00 AM
You are SO right about the rudders Mighty1.

Last few days I've been flying in another place which does not as yet allow me to use my rudder pedals.  I never quite realised just how much I used rudders to 'fine tune' a shooting approach until I couldn't use them anymore.

Not to mention how much I've become used to the 'Linda Blair' 6 view.  Oh boy, don't you miss THAT when its not available!

------------------
Jekyll
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
Aces High Training Corps
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Mark Luper on April 29, 2001, 06:28:00 AM
I remember Sirloin. Good stick.

I might wonder if you have combat trim enabled Sirloin, I have it disabled and more of the harder flying charactaristics have come out. I admit though that they are not near as pronounced as they were in the early days of beta or, for that matter, the latter stages of alpha.

I would like to point out though that it is a known fact that the more proficient you become at a task the easier it becomes to do. I think you have reached a point where you are able to do things easily that in the earlier stages of your AH career were difficult. I have noticed this in myself (ACM not one of those  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). I took a hiatus from the game for about 2 or 3 months soon after beta and noticed that it seemed more difficult to fly than I had remembered.

Familiarity often breeds contempt. Not saying you hold AH in contempt, just a figure of speech.

Personaly I look forward to the time when I can get comfortable enough to feel a task has become "easy" so to speak. I can then go on and work on other things that challange me.

I don't think making the fm difficult for difficulties sake is the way to go, but I would like to see it as realistic as possible within the constraints of "flying" on a computer and gameplay considerations.

 (http://home.att.net/~lmluper/markatsig.jpg)  (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Swoop on April 29, 2001, 09:15:00 AM
BEEF!   LTNS buddy!

How ya bin?


Swoop here from No401 Sq.....is 609 still going?

(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: No609Beef on April 29, 2001, 08:02:00 PM
Hiya Swoop!..Yeah,the 609 still going.I wasn't able to convince anyone to join AH so I retired.Lots of others though from EAW...SirLoin Out<S!>
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Kronos on April 29, 2001, 08:26:00 PM
I dont know about all the others here sirloin, but 3 of the hardest planes to master in AH are 190a8, p47, and f4uD.  these are the planes that most people fear flying just cause someone else has always got a better equipped or more adaptable plane.  They should give u thrills if nothing else will  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)  

P.S. if u find 1 v 1 in these planes too easy try going into furballs with them  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)



------------------
Kronos
CO No. 272 Squadron "Whispering Death"
---> http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/ (http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Citabria on April 29, 2001, 09:01:00 PM

the spiraling slipstream is fubar.
( that cool wind that is blasted back from the prop in a cool spiral pattern and slams into the left side of the vertical stabilizer and rudder yawing the nose left around the cg.)

should need a lot more right rudder trim/input in this sim instead of all the left rudder.

somthing is quite fishy.

but HT dosn't have much faith in the observations of real world pilots unless they have flown actual warbirds.

p.s. does a t6 texan count as a warbird?
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Eagler on April 30, 2001, 09:02:00 AM
I think the spins & stalls on most planes are dumb down for playability. Until there are enough ppl for a real "real" arena, I understand the compromised FM.

Eagler
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Ripsnort on April 30, 2001, 09:12:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Kronos:
I dont know about all the others here sirloin, but 3 of the hardest planes to master in AH are 190a8, p47, and f4uD.  these are the planes that most people fear flying just cause someone else has always got a better equipped or more adaptable plane.  They should give u thrills if nothing else will   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)  


From my perspective, I couldn't agree more...especially the FW190A8...if you can maintain a 4/1 K/D ratio in this consistently over tours, you're doing good IMO.

Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Jebo44 on April 30, 2001, 10:29:00 AM
I am new to BB's haven't been around long, so I got one question? WHAT THE HELL IS A TROLL?
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Apache on April 30, 2001, 10:33:00 AM
I am new to BB's haven't been around long, so I got one question? WHAT THE HELL IS A TROLL?

It's a really ugly little guy that hangs around under bridges and stuff  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Nah. It's trolling, like fishing. Trying to hook ya up so to speak with gibberish, inuendo and outright BS!!
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: SirLoin on April 30, 2001, 01:34:00 PM
I have changed forum name to my pilot name.<S!>
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: SirLoin on May 07, 2001, 10:47:00 PM
What is your CPID Marc Luper?You make nice points..<S!>
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Mark Luper on May 08, 2001, 05:17:00 AM
Sirloin,
Got me there. What is a CPID? My game ID is MarkAT, like on my signature, my bbs name is Mark Luper. It would have been the same for both but during the early beta testing a lot of the alpha testers added AT to their call sign to make it easier for people to find someone to ask questions of.

Is that what you are asking?

 (http://home.att.net/~lmluper/markatsig.jpg)  (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: tshred on May 09, 2001, 10:35:00 AM
I agree with Cit 100%. Was also much better pre 1.04 when they killed much of the torque effect.

ts
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: easymo on May 09, 2001, 11:27:00 AM
  I feel like half the game is missing since 1.04.  I have ask (begged) for a KI 84 a few times.  But, it occurred to me the other day that it wouldn't be as much fun here.  In the old brand W, It had killer guns. These were the reward for keeping it in the air. It was exciting to know if you made one wrong move the thing would go into a flat spin, that I always had big trouble getting out of. Here you just hit auto trim on angle. If you have enough alt, the magic button will pull you out of anything.  That's assuming you can get it to spin in the first place.

 Of course CT would have been a huge advantage over the old FM, It was probably no accident that CT showed up the same time as 1.04.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-09-2001).]
Title: Why Is The FM So Non-Challenging?
Post by: Glasses on May 09, 2001, 03:37:00 PM
I agree on the torque. I find it quite odd that most  of the time instead of having a left turning tendency on t/o I find myself using left rudder to keep myself on the runway , instead of right rudder. to maintain it. Also the power on stall effects here are really tame IMO even with proper trimming  that aircraft should roll more than it does here.

------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.
Besser tot als rot