Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on September 19, 2002, 12:05:16 PM
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I was doing some jabo runs of the deck of a carrier yesterday when I was rudely reminded of the serious discrepincey in performance of the F4U-1D getting of the deck with a full load of in my case 50% fuel, 2K bombs and 8 rockets. Is it impossible to takeoff in this configuration, hardly, but it does take three hands and some good timing to do it. And frankly since 1.08 I don't know if you can take off with 100% full and full bombs and rockets.
Here is my case for a change.
I did the number crunching for the weight with 2 * 1K bombs and rockets with 100% fuel.
F4U-1D 100% fuel ammo= 12,175LBS.
2* 1000LBS bombs= 2,000LBS(duh)
8* 5"HVAR = 1,150LBS
Total weight= 15,325LBS
From the F4U-1 pilots manual
Mil power 54" MAP (No WEP!!)
Takeoff run in FT 30% flaps(3 notches) 15,000LBS
25Knot headwind =640FT!!!
I looked up our carrier and I am matching it with the Essex class. I believe that is the correct ship although I am not sure.
Length= 880FT.
(I should be airbourne before reaching the end of the deck!!)
This should be more than enough distance to get off the deck without sinking off the end of the ship, retracting the gear hitting flaps and Wep and fighting crashing into the water while typing as fast as I can.
What gives?
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Amen F4UDOA!
I don't understand the HUGE discrepencies HiTech has when it comes to the Corsair. I fly the Corsair EXCLUSIVELY and noticed a HUGE difference with 1.08+
Before, you could take off CVs fully loaded and fueled 100% with a bit of backing up. Now its almost impossible.
HiTech says he didn't change anything with the Corsair, but it handles like a slow pig since 1.08.
There definitely needs to be some revisiting of the modeling.
BTW....GREAT website.
:)
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good case f4udoa.
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One question, the deck of an Essex class carrier you found it to be 880 feet. Is that the total deck length? if so you'd need to find where the take off point is on the deck and subtract that out to find out the actual length of deckspace you have to take off in.
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Is the carrier in AH actually 880 feet?
That said, I can get a fully-loaded F4U-1D off the deck with minimal trouble. Procedure:
1. Spawn.
2. Let plane roll back to rear end of flight deck (last set of arrester cables)
3. Firewall the throttle (WEP)
4. As plane rolls down runway, deploy flaps. Should be reaching full flaps just as plane goes off the front of the deck.
5. Retract wheels, THEN flaps. Remember to turn off WEP once airspeed hits 150.
If I do this I can take off every time unless the CV starts turning. Yes that is with 100% fuel, 2 x 1000 lb bombs and 8 rockets.
J_A_B
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JAB,
I fly the F4U exlusively(off carriers anyway). I used to be able to get off the deck that way as well pre 1.08. It is different now trust me. It is a struggle with 50% fuel. I have been here since the Beta. It is harder now than pre 1.04.
Except here are the problems I have with it currently.
1. The takeoff power for the F4U is Mil power 54"MAP. No WEP, why should we need it here?
2. The distance in the pilots manual says 15,000LBS in 640ft with 30% flap 25Knot head wind. The carrier deck is 880ft long. That leaves more than enough room to get airborne without doing the chicken dance at my PC why taking off.
3. The use of flaps in the F4U still creates to much drag. This point is made by the fact that unless flaps are deployed slowly they will act more to prevent a short run takeoff than help it. If you watch flim of an F4U takeoff flaps are deployed before the run begins. In AH they have to be deployed last minute or else you cannot gain enough speed in time.
4. The data in the flight manual calls for 3 notches of flaps. More flap gives you a shorter run. 5 notches should be an even shorter takeoff run. If you try this with full flaps in AH from the start you will be in the drink faster than you can bail out.
My feeling is that the flaps are mismodeled and cause to much drag. Also since 1.08 the F4U FM is more sluggish for sure. I think Pyro added more drag to the external pylons and rocket stubs. Although I certainly cannot prove it because I don't have pre-1.08 executable laying around.
BTW, I haven't seen a single post from Pyro in months in any subect forum. Is he still around?
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I can still take a fully-loaded F4U off a carrier without using full flaps or WEP or without rolling back signifigantly. Process:
1. Spawn
2. Set full up elevator trim and some right rudder trim.
3. Deploy flaps to 3 notches.
4. Hold brakes and gradually increase throttle (to get RPM as much as possible. Release brakes and max throttle when RPM maxes; you will roll back a hair when doing this but not a signifigant amount.
5. Be very very gentle as plane goes off the end of the deck; you will be riding the stall buzzer and dip down a bit but you can keep it airborne every time after just a little practice.
If the takeoff distance for the Corsair in this configuration should be 640 feet, then you can see why there might be a problem. The spawn point is well foreward of the end of the ship; maybe even slightly less than 640 feet is left for takeoff. In any case, you have to be sure to make your takeoff utterly perfect or you will crash since this is an absolute minimum-distance takeoff (it's MUCH safer to let it roll back a bit and take off with WEP).
J_A_B
File should be attached:
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Can't remeber the last time I crashed a fully loaded Hog on take off... although I've not flown them a great deal the last couple of tours I did fly them a lot during late 1.09. Yes it takes a bit of practise but what doesn't?
In fact I just tried it offline to make sure. Seems the same as I remember, ya get awful close to the horrible wet stuff but still make it off.
BTW how the hell do you 'back up' on a CV? is ther actually enough room to taxi turn on the deck? Whats the procedure?
Gatso
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I can TO from a carrier w/ a F4U-D fully fueled and 2k bombs with rocks no problem...I don't back up either.
Spawn and start engine
When you start to roll hit 5 notches of flaps and hit WEP also
Gear up asap and give a little right stick
Flaps in as soon as you can maintain level flight
I've used this procedure since carrier operations were available in AH.
If they've changed for you I'd first look at my control set-up, any changes in scaling or dampining could make things easier/harder...also a stick that's getting old may also cause problems.
Only when I get distracted do I have problems 'cause although it isn't difficult to do, any lateness in the timing of the procedures usualy results in a ditch.
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I've seen B-25s in real life take off from a carrier more easily than an F4U in Aces High. ;)
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Keep in mind that right now in the AH MA there is no wind at low altitudes. If you set up offline a 15-knot headwind for the carrier group, it makes taking off quite a bit easier.
When my dad was sitting a troopship in Tokyo Bay just after the end of the war, there was little else to do but sit on the deck and watch planes take off from a carrier that was moored mext to the troopship (they weren't allowed to go ashore because of Typhoid he says). Dad insists that a few times every day a plane would go off the deck into the water. While that was from a non-moving carrier, it was also unloaded planes I'm sure since the war had ended.
Guess what the AH flattops really need is a crane :)
J_A_B
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This is what i do.
Spawn let down flaps fully full throttle with WEP and take gear up ASAP then take control of my corsair because auto takeoff from carrier isnt too good. oh yea with 100% fuel 2 1000 LBS bombs 8 rockets. end up about 10ft from water lol
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Taking off from the CV in a fully loaded (2k iron, 6 rocks, 100% fuel) F4U-1D is a squad requirement in VMF323, and they don't let you roll backwards first.
It's kind of exciting, but even I can do it most of the time (and I suck).
Here's my deal (no auto-takeoff or combat trim):
Set trim to climb
Start engine at idle
Set brakes
Run up engine to WEP
Release brakes just as the AC starts to roll anyway
As you clear the island start dropping flaps; I generally use two or three notches
Pull gear up the instant you clear the end of the deck
Pull back on the stick once you clear the deck, but not hard enough to snap-roll
Ride the stall horn. You're going to get real low, but you should be able to stay out of the water
As you level off (real low) start bringing your flaps back up
Climb slowly until you get some airspeed
Kill any bish or rooks you see :D
I'm not sure if the CV has headwind modeled. I get the fealing it does, since at the con HT talked about "increasing the CV speed" if we couldn't get the 163s up off it.
YMMV. HTH. HAND.
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F4U,
I've got a copy of 1.07 P4 kicking around the ol HDD. Just post what test procedure you'd like followed and we can prolly get this thing fixed.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
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number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
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if you're having trouble getting off the deck in a loaded corsair, just use an F6F Hellcat instead - fully loaded takeoff is no problem & you have almost as much ordinance (2 rockets less) & a bit more ammo
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Hehe, try landing an F4U the way they tell you to in the real life flight operations film . Also at real life optimal cruise setting the AH f4u falls out of the sky at a rate of about 750fpm . I don't have any problems taking off from a cv in a fully loaded f4u1d. I have made an instructional film I will email to anyone who wants it .
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I think the point F4UDOA is making is being missed........It is NOT impossible to take off. However, it should NOT be this hard to take off.
Also, if wind is not being modeled, I ask, WHY Not? Its modeled in other fields. You get crosswind, etc.
Thanks!
;)
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Originally posted by MAC
I think the point F4UDOA is making is being missed........It is NOT impossible to take off. However, it should NOT be this hard to take off.
Also, if wind is not being modeled, I ask, WHY Not? Its modeled in other fields. You get crosswind, etc.
Thanks!
;)
Hrm. You mean JUST like he said in the first post? :)
You mean pile-its in WWII didn't drop off the end of carriers and skim the water? :eek:
Anyone know the maximum TOW for F4Us on carriers?
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Heya MAC,
Thanks for saving me. The point is being missed here somewhat.
I can get it off the deck with 100% fuel bombs and rockets too. It's just not what I would describe as realism with the F4U FM.
BTW Puck I know about the requirement in the VMF-323 because I'm in the 323rd for about two years now LOL!!
Point being that I believe there is a drag problem mostly with the flaps and possible the pylons.
Flakbait,
I will definitly take you up on your offer to test. Just reply to this post and we can do it quickly.
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IM AN IDIOT :rolleyes:
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According to USN data, you don't need more than one notch of flaps in F4U-1D 100% fuel, and max ord loadout. Here is the procedure I folow which works without fail ( when I follow it properly)
right trim 6 degrees (6-8 cicks)
up trim 10 clicks
hold brake and allow engine to wind up.
full hrottle.
(I drop flaps when I see the port bow gun nest in forward angle view)
gentle back pressure on stick
raise gear immediately after deck, giving gentle back/right pressure to counter torque. You may even need to nose down slightly...but it's all on feeling...and dont let te stall horn scare you.
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Well, here goes George!
Lifted off from a carrier three times, all with a full load of everything (a deck hand wanted his locker back, but i gave 'im the finger and took it anyway) Anyhoo, here's what her loadout was...
2x 1,000lbs bombs
6x 50 caliber w/full ammo
8x 5in HVAR rockets
Full fuel load
Headwind was around 25-30 knots and all takeoffs were done with three notches flaps. Step for step here's what I did, and it was done the same way every time. On the second set of three takeoffs I tried different things to get it off the deck. Died once trying to haul it's over-loaded rear off the deck.
1: Drop three clicks of flaps and crank engine
2: Lock brakes and gun engine
3: Pop brakes and run down the deck
4: Drive it right off the deck and let it drop. Fly it through the stall until airspeed hit 130mph, then retract gear. At 150mph retract flaps.
Handling:
1: Aircraft mushed considerably after running out of deck space. Twice the wheels were nearly in the water and once it almost stalled off on the left wing. Side note: All models of F4U stalled on the right wing, NOT the left. Dunno if this is fixed or not in 1.10
2: Riding the stall horn was the only way to keep it from playing submarine despite having throttle firewalled.
3: On fourth takeoff, tried hauling it off the deck before the deck ended. Aircraft stalled off on the left wing (the wrong wing) and promptly pancaked into the forward-most 20mm gun.
4: Fifth takeoff. It worked, but barely. Aircraft pulled up just before the deck ran out and stalled completely. With copious right rudder input (gaming the game, really) it stayed in the air. Had to use WEP in order to stay airborne and not meet the fish. Though I hear Herb is one hell of a poker player, he breathes water, and I don't.
5: Last takeoff and this also worked. Used FULL flaps with WEP and got it off the deck just before running out of space. Though still riding the stall horn, it didn't last as long and was quite a bit more stable.
I'd film it, but there's no way for you guys to view 'em ("old film new version" bug strikes again!)
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Flakbait [Delta6]
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Put the P-61B in Aces High
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Originally posted by flakbait
All models of F4U stalled on the right wing, NOT the left. Dunno if this is fixed or not in 1.10
The film at Zenos says to drain the left wing tank first because that is the wing that drops .
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Heya MAC,
Thanks for saving me. The point is being missed here somewhat.
I can get it off the deck with 100% fuel bombs and rockets too. It's just not what I would describe as realism with the F4U FM.
BTW Puck I know about the requirement in the VMF-323 because I'm in the 323rd for about two years now LOL!!
Point being that I believe there is a drag problem mostly with the flaps and possible the pylons.
Flakbait,
I will definitly take you up on your offer to test. Just reply to this post and we can do it quickly.
when HT finds a way to add the usual. 10 to 30mph head wind
that CVs have. then when u take off ull be rolling with more speed.
whels
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Originally posted by flakbait
All models of F4U stalled on the right wing, NOT the left. Dunno if this is fixed or not in 1.10
The LEFT wing stalled first and almost without warning. That's why they added the small leading edge piece to the RIGHT wing so that they would both stall at about the same airspeed. This would cause the plane to drop level and not roll to its left and on its back.
It's really evident in early films of Corsair Pilots trying to land on CV's just above stall speed. You always see them roll sharply left and nosedive in the water.
:)
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Yes it is very strange that the F4U stalls the wrong way. I said something a long time ago but it never got fixed. Another starnge thing is the fuel burn off in the F4U-1. Main tank then wing tanks. Doesn't make any sense to me but oh well.
Whels,
We do have a 25knot headwind here. Just look at the speedometer of the F4U when on the deck. It's at 40MPH just sitting still. Remeber a moving ship makes it's own wind.
BTW, I never roll back on the carrier. I don't know how anyone does it but I can't. Kill engine and everything but she won't roll back.
I think my auto trim might be hurting me but if anyone can deploy 5 notches of flap before moving and make it off the deck I am truely amazed.
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On the F4U-1A they actualy bolted an extra piece of metal near the right wingtip to counter the stall of the left wing that was caused by prop-wash at low speeds.
If in the F4U-1 ALWAYS drain the Left Wing tank first, after that you can let AH automanage the remaining fuel. The game will leave some gas in the right wing until the main is just under 1/4. That leftover fuel in the Right wing with the Left wing dry, makes a HUGE difference, I've tested it and if you use this method the stall is more gradual and very manageable. I know, I fly the F4U-1 the most.
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F4UDOA--
Taking off using full flaps deployed before moving is as easy if not easier than doing so with just 3 notches down. It can be done without too much trouble without needing to roll back OR use WEP. I did it 10 times in a row before posting this (5 times 3 notches, 5 times full flaps) and made it everytime. Without a wind at sea level (uncommon in reality, carriers usually headed into the wind to launch planes) you bob down a bit after leaving the end of the deck but can pull up with around 15 feet to spare.
DO NOT USE Auto-trim when taking off a fully-loaded F4U. I found it makes things tougher. Manually trim to full up elevator and some right rudder trim before you start moving. The reason AUTO-TRIM is killing you is it trims the rudder slightly to the left at takeoff speeds (the direction the F4U wants to stall); what you need is some RIGHT rudder trim. Sure enough, then I use AUTO-TRIM I die very consistently.
Also before you start moving, hold brakes and give the engine enough power to bring the RPM's up to max (3 clicks if you use the keyboard for throttle control), THEN release the brakes and firewall the throttle (WEP not necessary). If you fail to do this before releasing the brakes you will most likely crash. Also do not attempt to pull up until you leave the deck or you will stall.
Remember the F4U was known for killing inexperienced pilots. It is NOT an easy plane to learn and it's pretty unforgiving if you mess up. Once you have a routine down though, it's not especially difficult to get it off the deck.
Finally, to roll back if you want to, do the following after you spawn: start engine, give it a slight amount of throttle (about 2 clicks if you use keyboard for throttle)....with a hair of throttle, your plane will begin to coast back along the deck. If you ever have to take off with a tailwind, this is probably a necessary step.
J_A_B
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JAB,
Thanks for the Tip. I will try it ASAP.
However as long as the carrier is moving you will have a head wind. Just look at you speed while sitting still. It's 25Knots or about 40MPH.
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I'm aware of the carrier moving headwind, but if you had another 15-20 MPH of additional wind it'd make a big difference :)
Of course in the MA it'd usually mean you'd die more because I never saw a carrier turn into the wind when we had sea-level wind.
J_A_B
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From start point to deck end is 556 ft.
CV is travling at 35 mph.
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Don't you think it wouldn't be a bad idea to move the spawn point back a few feet?
It is an Essex class carrier right?
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OK,
Thinking I must be crazy I went back and tested with manual trim WEP(which I should not need) and a renewed sense of confidence I tried again.
0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this.
According to HT the ship is moving 35MPH which is exactly 30.4 Knots.
According to the F4U-1 pilots manual the F4U-1 at 14,200LBS in a 30Knots head wind can take off in 480FT with 30 degrees of flap. HT says the deck is 556FT from the spawn point so in theory the A/C should be airborne before the end of the deck with a 2K load(not the 3K I have been testing with). However it also says in a 30Knot wind at 13,100LBS that a takeoff of 380ft is possible. So that is a 7.7% increase in weight and a 100ft increase in takeoff distance. Increasesing the weight by another 7.7 Percent makes the weight 15,300LBS(exactly the right number) and increases the takeoff run to 600FT.
So you can safely say that we are 50FT short of a full deck run with 30 degrees of flap. So 1 or 2 things must happen.
1. Move the spawn point back 50FT
2. The flaps have to be more effective for takeoff at higher deflection not less effective as they currently are(too much drag).
3. Use WEP to get of the deck(we shouldn't have to).
Also with 2K bombs and 100% fuel the F4U-1 should fly off before the end of the runway. This is not currently the case.
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
OK,
Thinking I must be crazy I went back and tested with manual trim WEP(which I should not need) and a renewed sense of confidence I tried again.
0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this.
According to HT the ship is moving 35MPH which is exactly 30.4 Knots.
According to the F4U-1 pilots manual the F4U-1 at 14,200LBS in a 30Knots head wind can take off in 480FT with 30 degrees of flap. HT says the deck is 556FT from the spawn point so in theory the A/C should be airborne before the end of the deck with a 2K load(not the 3K I have been testing with). However it also says in a 30Knot wind at 13,100LBS that a takeoff of 380ft is possible. So that is a 7.7% increase in weight and a 100ft increase in takeoff distance. Increasesing the weight by another 7.7 Percent makes the weight 15,300LBS(exactly the right number) and increases the takeoff run to 600FT.
So you can safely say that we are 50FT short of a full deck run with 30 degrees of flap. So 1 or 2 things must happen.
1. Move the spawn point back 50FT
2. The flaps have to be more effective for takeoff at higher deflection not less effective as they currently are(too much drag).
3. Use WEP to get of the deck(we shouldn't have to).
Also with 2K bombs and 100% fuel the F4U-1 should fly off before the end of the runway. This is not currently the case.
F4U,
the 35 knots CV is moving creating the speed u see, should be added to with head wind. CVs didnt turn into the wind for nuthing
for launching planes. CV speed 35 + Headwind (say avg) 15 =
50 knots speed before u roll. that extra 15 knots would be a world of difference.
1 point F4U on takeoff length. rarely did CV planes have the full deck to run on, most time they had barely half the deck for takeoff
because of all the planes parked on aft section. if total length of deck was 880 feet, then most planes only used less then 500 to
takeoff.
whels
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"0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this. "
Have you considered that perhaps there is some problem on your end? I can get a fully-loaded F4U off the deck every time without using WEP or rolling back.
I'm not saying there isn't necessarily something wierd with the F4U; just if you can't get airborne at all then there has to be some sort of problem on your end too since I'm flying with the same flightmodel you are.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
Whels,
We do have a 25knot headwind here. Just look at the speedometer of the F4U when on the deck. It's at 40MPH just sitting still. Remeber a moving ship makes it's own wind.
wouldnt head wind be calculated for speed of wind blowing across the deck at speeds above CV speed?
IE for 25 knot head wind, CV speed 35 + headwind 25
= speed in plane before rolling showing 60 knots
whels
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I was just thinking, what model of F4U is your manual for? IIRC different versions of the F4U's had different propellers (some had the "paddle prop", some didn't).....perhaps the one your manual is for is a different one than the AH F4U-1D?
We could check this by seeing how well things like climb data matches up with the AH F4U-1D. Whether the AH F4U-1D can get off the deck or not, it DOES seem a bit sluggish in terms of distance used.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this. "
Have you considered that perhaps there is some problem on your end? I can get a fully-loaded F4U off the deck every time without using WEP or rolling back.
I'm not saying there isn't necessarily something wierd with the F4U; just if you can't get airborne at all then there has to be some sort of problem on your end too since I'm flying with the same flightmodel you are.
J_A_B
a 100% fuel, 2 1ks 8 rock F4U-1d, icant get off deck without
belly floppin onto the water. its close to making it but i
always end up floating.
whels
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Originally posted by Samm
Only the F4U-1A had wingm tanks, the delta does not afford that option.
In the training films I own, the corsair (1-A)upon entering a stall always snapped and rolled left...and it went in a hurry. Not sure where you got that info, but my data suggests otherwise .
Gainsie
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JAB,
I have been considering for some time that everyones FE is not the same. I have noticed feel changes when deleting and reinstalling AH.
Whels is probably the best F4U jock in the game. If he cant do it I don't know what else to say. I know I can maybe one out of 20 times.
As far as the paddle prop stuff I'm the one who dug all that stuff up. The climb charts on HTC page for the F4U-1D came from me and it specifies blade type 6501A-0 which is a paddle prop.
I might try re-installing AH and see if there is a differance.
Remember there was a wave of "what happened to the F4U-1D" after 1.08 release. Weather intentional or unintention the F4U-1D is different post 1.08.
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I will happily agree that the F4U feels sluggish.
That said though, I can get it off the ship with no rollback with full loadout every time, 3 notches flaps deployed before moving, not using WEP. What can be different on my computer than on yours and Whels?
I tried to make a film, but noticed that the ordnance isn't showing up in the playback. What can I do to fix this?
J_A_B
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Ok, here is a film of me taking off a fully-loaded F4U. Ordnance doesn't seem to show up in the film externally, but I make a point of showing it off both before and after takeoff so that shouldn't be a problem.
I was incorrect in my earlier estimate though; I can pull up with only perhaps 5-7 feet to spare. Like I said, the fact that I can get the plane airborne doesn't mean that it isn't sluggish.
Am I doing anything differently than you guys are?
J_A_B
ZIP file should follow:
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Never flown an f4u1d so i thought i would give it a go taking off s carrier.
2 1000lbs, rockets and 100% fuel (no WEP)- i managed 3 out of 4 attempts. With 50% fuel i did it everytime. The only time i went into the drink was on my 2nd attempt- i think the trick to it is to ease back on the stick just before u leave the deck to get ready for when the nose dips. Well the nose dips for me anyway. :)
Here was my 1st attempt (almost augered this one:D )
hey nice film with all the instructions, jab. I sorta just rolled down the carrier with 1 notch of flaps then lowered to 2 then 3 as i went off the deck....hehehe.:)
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Originally posted by whels
a 100% fuel, 2 1ks 8 rock F4U-1d, icant get off deck without
belly floppin onto the water. its close to making it but i
always end up floating.
whels
Hey Whels...I think you've finaly found something that your $12 joystick can't handle ;)
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anyone whom is interested in the F4U should get the Oct '02 Aeroplane Monthly. amongst the many revelations in the F4U articles is this:
"[after the dangerous stalling characteristics were discovered in F4U-1 test flights]...The new vaiant was the F4U-1a...A piece of metal about 6in long. or "stalling strip", was added to the leading edge of the starboard outer wing panel near the gun ports, causing the wing to stall at the same time as the other, preventing the dangerous dropping-off effect"
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I stand corrected about the stall characteristics. As for the takeoff run, I think HT should move the spawn point back 50ft. Until then, use more flaps or manually roll it backwards some to get the extra distance needed.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Only the F4U-1A had wingm tanks, the delta does not afford that option.
In the training films I own, the corsair (1-A)upon entering a stall always snapped and rolled left...and it went in a hurry. Not sure where you got that info, but my data suggests otherwise .
Gainsie
Isn't that what I said ?
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Originally posted by Samm
The film at Zenos says to drain the left wing tank first because that is the wing that drops .
Yep, it is .
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problem solved:
(http://www.vought.com/photos/images/0426_056.jpg)
photo is labeled JATO test, but judging from the smoke i'd bet the meant RATO test. excellent collection of Corsair images @ http://www.vought.com/photos/data/planes1.htm
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Originally posted by whels
for launching planes. CV speed 35 + Headwind (say avg) 15 =
50 knots speed before u roll. that extra 15 knots would be a world of difference.
I got the feeling there is no wind at all, which would indicate HT "cheated" by moving the CV at 35 mph.
Not sure what the max speed of the Essex class was, but I suspect moving along at 30 knots would cost them their escort and most of their gas. The speed/power curve for a ship in water is a cubed function; it took us four times more power to go 30 knots that it took to go 25, which is why we didn't go over 25 knots very often. Again, I'm not sure what the most efficient speeds were for the Essex; their milage may vary.
The problem seems to be a minor glitch in the modeling, which probably isn't worth fixing. Several possible work arounds would be speeding up the carrier, which changes game play (takes less time to mive them around), or changing the spawn point, which really doesn't affect anything and is, I suspect, a #DEFINE somewhere :)
-- off topic --
The Tunaprize (CVN65) could have gotten a speeding ticket on any urban interstate way back when she was brand new and the plants hadn't been downrated (and the air wing wasn't aboard). Good ol' Hyman G bent the number 1 shaft pretty good, but he wanted to see how fast she'd go. Back in the 80s the Nimitz sank half the fishing boats in the Sicilian Navy by taking the straits so fast she swamped them. "greater than 30 knots" indeed. Took her escorts a few days to catch up. Fastest SHIPS in the navy are the CVNs :)
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You really don't need more than one notch of flaps to take off in fuly loaded corsair, and you don't need WEP at all.
It also helps to keep steady on the rudder, as excessive yawing down the deck will bleed off E w/o you even noticing it as you're trying to roll steady.
too many flap settings also creates too m uch drag on takeoff.
One notch is enough.
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Fastest SHIPS in the navy are the CVNs
Well, after the Tucumcari and her sister ships...
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RedTail,
That's the whole point of flaps is to shorten takeoff run (amoung other things). So if the flaps are preventing a short takeoff run then they are mismodeled.
More flap should mean a shorter takeoff run.
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Notice the amount of right rudder?:D
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Originally posted by F4UDOA
RedTail,
That's the whole point of flaps is to shorten takeoff run (amoung other things). So if the flaps are preventing a short takeoff run then they are mismodeled.
More flap should mean a shorter takeoff run.
F4
F4UDOA...
too much flaps = less horizontal speed. Here's my film,, but the TO is rocky, as I have a broken hand and it completely covers my right (stick) hand. Barely able to hold the stick.... I dumped eggs after TO to prove I had em...they dont show sometimes...I also landed.
Gainsie
PS..HTC not letting me upload their OWN film...gimme your emails and I'll send em that way:mad:
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Barely able to hold the stick...
I am wearig a cast...hard enuf to type..and the drugs don't help much either!
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I have to jump in here.
OK, I must say that I can almost always take off with full load on all Hogs.
With that said I also think they are severly porked (suggish) and on top of that they perked two of them. I think HT gave into the endless whines of the Hog back in Tour 5 or whenever the hog (C) was perked, was so long ago I cant remember when.
Take off is simple.
1) Brakes, full power (no wep) then release brakes and roll.
2) As you pass tower drop 2 or 3 notch flaps, your choice, I use 2 btw.
3) Just when ya pass the last 88MM gun give slight right aileron and back elevator. Just a tad not too much.
4) You should now drop off end of CV and have about 10 feet to spare. I am succesfull about 90+% of the time.
Now this will also work with a turning CV, but it makes it way too risky to do with loadout, but can be done when slick.
One thing I left out is why I said no WEP. Ok, with WEP you get too much yaw for the power that you get from it. It causes too much tail sway and will make the left wing dip way worse.
Use of the rudder is very criticle during the whole procedure. Try to use as little as possible while still on CV, but increse input slightly just as ya drop off.
Hope this helps some of you that are haveing difficulty.
Booky
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Notice in the picture that whgates posted the position of the rudder. It looks like the pilot has it in full right position. That must be to off set the torque and quick rotation to the left that everyone is talking about.
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Booky;
Is your use is autotrim turned on or off?
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Good question, I forgot to add info about trim.
I NEVER use trim untill I am off the deck, now on airfield takeoffs I do a little.
But in general, I usually will not trim out untill I have reached at least 150mph.
Booky