Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gatt on March 18, 2001, 06:56:00 PM
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During the last days I've seen a lot more bombers at low-medium at high alt, up to 33K. And this is good, they are very tough foes.
However, thanks to the AH map bug, I've seen a lot of off-mappers as well, popping up at high/very high altitude very close to enemy fields and HQ's. Almost impossible to intercept them and have a fair fight.
This is a new kind of "gaming the game" I cannot stand. Those are buff scum. Some of the worst cheaters I've ever seen in AH.
And yes, I'm talking about Knight pilots as well, when and if they do it.
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GAT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knights (http://www.4stormo.it)
"The Eyeties are comparatively easy to shoot down. Oh, they're brave enough. In fact, I think the Eyeties have more courage than the Germans, but their tactics aren't so good. They are very good gliders, but they try to do clever acrobatics and looping. But they will stick it even if things are going against them, whereas the Jerries will run." (G.Beurling)
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I say make all players flying off-map to get a message in their buffer: WARNING: YOU ARE LEAVING THE MAP AREA, YOU HAVE 2 MINUTES TO RETURN TO MAP.
If they dont then they are inmediately killed and sent to tower AND get perkies deducted.
To avoid people from flying on the boundary, flying in and out of the map to avoid detection, make it so that in the 3rd time in the sortie the player gets the message, his plane is destroyed.
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And steal their first born, burn their house, rape their women, tear their skin off 1 square inch at a time, and then burn their carcasses and piss on the embers!
Jeeze TAC, the first suggestion was actually a good one, but no need to kill them or deduct perks if you are already returning them to the tower. That is effectively a death anyway.
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PakRat
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://home.att.net/~ahpakrat/pakrat.jpg)
"Juggies, dance us back in history!"
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I don't see why they need to. The gunner firepower is incredible. I often hear people in fighters say it's "not worth it" to go after bombers now.
-DoK
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Just don't go after them alone. It's an easy way to die.
Off-mappers are gaming the game. It's a result of the way the map is laid out and it's an effective ploy.
Can't see getting all worked up about it.
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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
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I and other members of the 56th go after bombers regularly. I just shot down a B-17 and a B-26 (and a Spitfire) in a single sortie. Heard two pings and took no damage.
Just have to do it right. Wish I did it right every time but sometimes I get trapped in a steady 6 position as I try to keep them from getting to target.
Best attacks (for me) are from above and to the side. Don't aim at them but where they will be when you get in firing range. Aim at them and you will swing around to their 6 every time.
From the side, most bomber gunners don't know to aim behind the attacker as the bullets will be moving forward with the bomber's speed as they move toward the enemy plane. They aim at you and the bullets miss. Every time.
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PakRat
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://home.att.net/~ahpakrat/pakrat.jpg)
"Juggies, dance us back in history!"
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This is an area where the HTC guys might want to steal an idea out of the latest from iEN. Go too far off the map in their latest beta and you explode into your component polygons.
You can bet that anybody who's spent 1/2 hour climbing to alt won't even go *near* the map edge after the first time thats happened to him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
booker
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A fast slicing attack, from 8 o'clock to 2, or 4 o'clock to 10, works well. Add a pinch of skid. But hit em good, keep going, roll around them and nail em once more from the other side. Few bomber pilots are good enough to keep thier plane flying with an engine or two out while manning a gun and trying to shoot you too.
As for off the map? SOme dweebs wil ldo anything for points. <shurg> Big deel. They'll be on the hamster wheel doing the same thing tommrow. Rinse, repeat.. Shoot em down when you can and don't worry about when you cannot.
-Westy
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After spending about 30 minutes tracking down a Lanc near our HQ off the map, I proceeded to pump him full of 30mm Minengeschoss. After I called him on it, he tried to explain that flying off the map is a feature that HTC put into the game. According to his logic, they want losers to fly off the map or they wouldn't have given us a map like this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) It was good for a laugh.
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Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerrkorps.com)
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Best idea is to extent the map edge far enough so you get a dot at max radar range. Still gives the buff driver the choice of using off map area to climb safely, but sufficient warning for defenders to hop a 109G-10 and climb to intercept. In the mean time, I'm afraid I can't call it cheating; it's not against any rules I've seen anywhere. Have I done it? Once.
I had someone call me a cheater tonight because I exited the fight toward friendly territory when the 1v1 I was in (and winning, I might add) became to 2v1. Later, when I re-engaged at 2v1, I held my own for a few minutes. Then I had to dive for ack (was right over my field at that time...of course I'd dive toward friendly forces) when the fight turned against me; he called me a cheater again. Was it? Not in my book. The idea is to stay alive, and NO combat pilot would look at running away from bad odds as cowardly or a cheat. Cheating, true cheating is where someone bends/breaks rules to gain an unfair advantage. Let's stop calling names and make constructive suggestions to HTC if this is an important gameplay issue.
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Sabre (a.k.a. Rojo)
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Heh yah raub, there seems to be a growing group that say "if HTC allow it do be done, it's a feature and should be done".
It's even worse than the spawning human airmine b26's or the buff dropping eggs on drunks because the strategic results can be much greater.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"
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Someone enlighten me, I'm not a programmer. Is it possible to fix this thing or it is something they want? Like buffs dropping their eggs between their arses and the rwy just to kill themselves *and* you. No word and no fix so far ... great. Yes, it belongs to the bugs forum as well but ... hell
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After thinking a lot (It's monday morning, any intellectual task is really a challenge), I came to the conclusion that I do not want the bug to be fixed. Just revamped. When you fly off the map, not only you appear on the radar, but it is your Handle what appears. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Of course, a dweeb hunt is in order propmtly afterwards.
Pepe.
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Those Off-Map bomber pilots are nothing but cowards and losers.
Of course they try to justify their way of gaming, nothing new in that but they're still cowards.
I've spent lots of hours in bombers in this and earlier tours too to earn points for Arado but I never went out of map. That's just something I don't do (still have my balls).
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Off the map...isn't out of the Arena. If you're so worried about off map attacks patrol the edges those off the map aren't invisable or impossible to kill. I would like to see some islands or continents off the map. Maybe with unmapped airbases with special perk planes that you can use if you find them. If three planes land on an unmapped island an airfield will appear...the possibilites are endless HT make the world bigger...Please
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Guys there is a simple solution. When you see them flying off map, tell the enemy their location. If everybody does this, problem is solved. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I like the "feature" that the Map is unlimited. In Fighter Squadron you ran into an invisble wall that woulden't let you fly off the map - a real immersion killer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
But... I totally agree that off-map-bombing is dweebish as hell. Like Arado drivers, these guys want to cause damage without taking risks, or giving us a fair chance to stop them... Arado's are "ok" with me (as long as they have no guns to actively attack my fighter, why bother? :P
Ok, what to do with off-map-dweebs?
"Airplane blows up after a certain off-map-time is exceeded" quite nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
or "Airplane's guns, loadout are disabled after awhile of off-map-flying"
This variation is a little meaner, since the guy would have to fly back home... extra time spent in a useless buff (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Effdub
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I am sure the german radar ops did think that same when allied bomb raids went by the sea outside of their radar range (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
"Donnerwetter chzeat!"
[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 03-19-2001).]
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There is no real excuse for the off-the-map bombers. Whether it's climbing to alt, or trying to get around defenses. It's pure "gaming the game" and I can't see a single good reason why it should be allowed. I watched several raids come to hit our HQ these last couple of days, almost every time they were off the map. It makes one dweeb able to unbalance the game with an attack on the HQ that can't really be defended against. The "well fly off the map and find them" excuse is a joke used to try and justify it.
I've said this before somewhere else, set the fuel burn rate at 50X normal while off the map, give the person a warning, and then let them run out of fuel.
It's been brought up so many times now and people keep doing it, though I never have. One of these days they'll make a change, I hope, to stop it.
-Soda
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Bah, you guys whine so much this and that about radar that I can't believe my eyes..
I'd be rather happy to have far more simplified radar that would make sneak attacks possible.
That would bring in some strategical elements.
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The maps are unrealistic, the radar in the game is unrealistic - if you really want your HQ and other bases protected, then figure out a better way of patrolling them instead of whining about it.
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HTC ppl have mentioned that the offmap problem is on the "to do" list
SKurj
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So HTC is going to do something to that off-map flying?
So the game is not intended to play off map?
Of course they could spend that time making new planes, vehicles, ships or have a party in local restaurant...
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gatt,
I'm sure the personnel in every installation that was "snuck up on" in WW-II felt that they couldn't stand it. But it happened then and it happens now. We simply need more people to do what I (and others) do from time-to-time. Pick a field on the border of the map and run a patrol to find the bastages BEFORE they get close to their targets. It doesn't pay off every time, but when it does, you feel soooo gooood. If radar can't spoon-feed us targets, we have to go out looking for them. Kind of like when your HQ gets plastered and the radar is out. These are the most exciting times for me, because you truly don't know what trouble, if any, you're going to find. Try a patrol now and then and see what happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Buhdman, out
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I fly bombers almost every time I am in AH. I have never flown off the map and I do not know why anyone would want to fly off the map. That takes all the fun outta shooting down enemy fighters and trying to stay alive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But I guess there must be a damn fine prize for getting a high score or something if people are flying off the map.
Is there something that makes it worth the ridicule of being the one caught flying off the map? (I heard someone mention perks?). Maybe the root of the problem should be looked at?
I do think no matter what happens that if you fly off the map you should find an increasing downdraft the closer you get to the edge and at the edge a should be a windshear nothing could escape from. (basically send em back to the tower).
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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Originally posted by ElLobo:
I would like to see some islands or continents off the map. Maybe with unmapped airbases with special perk planes that you can use if you find them. If three planes land on an unmapped island an airfield will appear...the possibilites are endless HT make the world bigger...Please
Maybe have islands with little guys in white suits yelling..."boss da plane, da plane"? How about some 'quad-damage power-ups', or maybe a nice rail gun or BFG for your bomber? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerrkorps.com)
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Sandman_SBM wrote:
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Just don't go after them alone. It's an easy way to die.
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It's interesting that in WWII, bombers flew together in packs to try to protect themselves from fighters. In Aces High, it's the fighters that have to fly in packs, to attack lone bombers.
anRky
-Ih8ubb
'Get rid of the bucket!'
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its almost funny to see how people get pissed when somebody evades the STUPID "radar" system that AH has, you wanna talk about gamey? how about a "radar" that will pick you up from across the map IN YOUR OWN HANGER, thats "gamey" due to my rather larg perk stash i never fly any bomber other than the arado..but given the BS radar system i can understand people flying off the map, its totally stupid the way the radar show planes even on the ground, you SHOULD be able to fly under it at say 300-500 feet AGL until your within about 15 miles of the NME.
So basicall the "radar" is the problem, it is the CAUSE, off them map flying is the EFFECT, so by trying to address the off the map flying is DUMB, address the CAUSE.
the radar is already screwed, so why not fix THAT, then maby this "off them map" crap will change.
All in all the AH "radar" system is a joke, thats why you have off the mappers, if something needs to be changed its the radar, ITS the problem, the off the mappers are just the result of having a BS radar system.
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Originally posted by buhdman:
gatt, I'm sure the personnel in every installation that was "snuck up on" in WW-II felt that they couldn't stand it. But it happened then and it happens now. We simply need more people to do what I (and others) do from time-to-time. Pick a field on the border of the map and run a patrol to find the bastages BEFORE they get close to their targets. It doesn't pay off every time, but when it does, you feel soooo gooood. If radar can't spoon-feed us targets, we have to go out looking for them. Kind of like when your HQ gets plastered and the radar is out. These are the most exciting times for me, because you truly don't know what trouble, if any, you're going to find. Try a patrol now and then and see what happens
Eheh Buhdman,
if you take a look at my stats you'll realize that I enjoy patrolling our HQ and fields against buff. My k/t really sucks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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"...It's interesting that in WWII, bombers flew together in packs to try to protect themselves from fighters. In Aces High, it's the fighters that have to fly in packs, to attack lone bombers..."
Exactly! You have to make allowances for gameplay, but the advantage has swung too far the bombers way.
bowser
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Wobble,
You're being disingenious. I know you've got a good grasp of history, so I expect you also know that German radar could indeed detect the emissions of allied radar sets warming up as the bomber streams were forming up over the airfield in England.
Further, you probably already know that many (if not most) of the German night fighting radar systems again homed in precisley on the allied bombers radar emissions in flight. You'd not only give away a speed and heading, you'd also give away your alt.
Sounds good to me :) More dead buffs.
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Wobble,
You're being disingenious. I know you've got a good grasp of history, so I expect you also know that German radar could indeed detect the emissions of allied radar sets warming up as the bomber streams were forming up over the airfield in England.
Further, you probably already know that many (if not most) of the German night fighting radar systems again homed in precisley on the allied bombers radar emissions in flight. You'd not only give away a speed and heading, you'd also give away your alt.
Sounds good to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) More dead buffs
as far as I know there is no REAL radar that can pick up a plane sitting on the ground.... in a hanger....on the other side of a mountin.. thats what AH's radar does, radar, even the most sophisticated today can be flown under due to terrain masking. in AH you cannot go BELOW radar..which is unrealistic and IMO DUMB. Flying off the map is gamey..YES, but no as gamy as a radar that can see through ground, mountins, and over vast spaces and pick up small aircraft in their hangers.
its like those stupid 3D shooters that have the radar, for the impatent quakeheads to find the other players faster.
Make any plane farther than 15 miles form the nearist radar undetectable (no dot, no dar bar) IF it is under 300-500 feet AGL. However if you get too close to a base, or strat (say 8 miles) then you show up no matter how low you are, considering a sentry at the base, or a tower would spot you. Also dont make GVs show up on dar UNTIL they fire a shot into the perimiter of the base, or they get withing 3k of it.
That would be pretty good, and wouldent harm gameplay (who flys under 500 feet everywhere?) and a heck of alot more realistic than the joke OMNIPOTENT radar we have now.
its not like EVERYBODY would fly below 500 feet and nobody would ever find anybody, but it would make Jabo and Arado missions a BLAST.