Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Apache on March 19, 2001, 10:09:00 AM
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As long as this ludicrous game play concession for bombers is in place, I will never again attack a bomber. With 1 exception. If and only if I have a front quarter solution will I make 1 pass. No more than 1!
I know about how to do this and do that and what angle and more than 1 fighter, blah, blah, blah. 1 bomber can drop laser guided bombs with impunity and then take out fighter after fighter because they are trying to get him quick and can't use the patience required for these monsters before he makes the field totally useless. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but Otto was better than this.
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Gotta disagree with you, Apache. I think Otto was much worse than the linked gun systems we have in AH. At least now, the bomber pilot can't lineup and drop bombs and man guns all at the same time, like Otto allowed you to.
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But wouldn't you agree that otto was less accurate? Seems I remember one could out fly otto and otto sure as heck couldn't shoot as far.
[This message has been edited by Apache (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Well, it depends on which "adjustment" of Otto you're talking about.
Sometime it was very accurate, sometimes not, depending on how they tweaked it.
Same applies to your average AH buff pilot. Some are deadly shots, some are not. My rule of thumb is that I know that if I attack a buff in AH, I have a 50/50 chance of coming out alive. Do I take the risk? You bet! The next sortie is only a mouse click away! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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hehe. Well, I don't want to debate the otto thing anyway. Thats over and done with.
I still ain't a gonna shoot at no buff tho. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Aw, C'mon, Apache, we want to see blood! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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They need gunshake and more dispersion or make the buff pilot have to set his conv just like the fiters. He has to actually hit you at conv to get all those 50 cals to hit you at once.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!
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I have to agree with you Apache. I don't attack B-17s anymore. Its just not worth it.
AKDejaVu
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Ditto. If it aint a 1 pass HO or a kamikaze cannon attack (on HQ raids only) I just wont mess with a buff.
I honestly prefer to have an otto firing each gun independantly with field ack AI than to have 37mm cannon equivalent of 1 ping by all possible guns with perfect convergence, no dispersion, at any range.
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(scribbles note)...fly more buffs...no one is going to attack them now.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sky Viper
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One pilot I “heard” referred to B17’s as “Death Stars”. I have to agree. I had silently decided to let bombers pass, nice to know I’m not the only one. Wish my 51 guns had the strength the bombers seem to have. I’ll take a snap shot, and even sometimes I’ll get suckered in, but my engagements with these things are definitely going to drop.
Zippatuh
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I was flying Ta-152 in about 30k searching bombers when I saw a buff in a little lower.
I made a good attack, ping ping ping and wing-tip was gone...
It flyed well but I crashed in landing so there went 50points.
If I remember correct buffs armament are "Tuned Up" thus giving them a better change to survive in arena so why not also give better strenght to planes wings, bigger punch to small cal MGs and faster speed to slow planes so they can survive too?
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If I see a buff all by itself out away from bases, I ignore it. It is certain death.
If I see one with a friendly already on it, SOMETIMES i'll help him. Other times I still ignore it.
If I see a bomber near our base, I follow it and kill it while it is dropping bombs. He can't shoot back while he is dropping his bombs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I have maybe two or three bomber kills tghis tour, and I killed them all in this situatiuon.
Needless to say, whatever base I am over still gets hit. Oh well. It'll get hit anyway if I'm flying a flaming piece of junk with no wings.
J_A_B
[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Originally posted by banana:
I think Otto was much worse than the linked gun systems we have in AH. At least now, the bomber pilot can't lineup and drop bombs and man guns all at the same time, like Otto allowed you to.
AFAIK, real bombers could do everything. BTW, HTC should make bombers tougher and Brownings less lethal. Adjustable OTTO was better (did I say THAT? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) than this krap. Moreover 30K pinpoint bombing should not be allowed.
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Hiya's,
Hope this don't get nasty but........
Go and fly Buffs guys say for 1 week as often as you can, Then judge for yourself about the guns etc
I know Buff guns may seem 100% lethal but if like me you fly em and fighters and ride vehicles you kinda get to figure that balanced out it aint all one sided to the Buffs
Just a thought
Also just to add and this is just my thoughts and only mine..........who on earth would fly Buffs if they could be killed 100% of the time by a fighter ?
Kinda no need for em at all if they were too easy to kill
Hey Beefcake come n back me up please !!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
All i come to AH for is to have Fun n Giggles with a great group of misfits called the Musketeers and all the other guys i've got to know........ ps Cowin wears a Tutu !!!!
Now have Fun n go kill a Buff (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Tit
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Hiya Tit! i respect your opinion and thanks for wadeing in here.
Do you know The Dickweed Heavy Bomber Group? I was one of em, albeit in WB but one of em just the same. Yep, we were a heavy bomber group, so yeh, I know a little about buffs.
I'm not going to take you up on your suggestion. I really don't want to cause a major conflict between the fighter jocks and the buff pilots. Guess I shoulda kept my mouth shut but I simply wanted my fellow knights to know that I refuse to go against the AH buffs again. This was the only way I knew to let em know all at once instead of some of em gettin pissed at me for lettin' em go (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
<S>
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As I said I have flyed a lot buffs in this tour.
Usually after I bombed fields I stayed near and looked for some fights with fighters(I've killed another B-17 too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
Good and easy way to get more perk-points in B-17 and without need to go out of map (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hiya's,
A very well thought post, I admire you posting this info so as to warn your fellow countrymen
Nice to see maturity and thought in a post and not someting akin to bulletinboard warfare
Have Fun
Tit
ps ...I have heard of that bomber group
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I sense this is a ploy by Apache and his MAG cohorts to lure us into flying bombers into knight territory only to be mercilessly shot to flaming pieces!
Watch out All Bish and Rook Bomber Pilots, those guys can shoot! (except for the DD's of course, they just wear tutu's and sing lumberjack songs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
Cobra
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After the first few days I was lucky to get a buff kill, more often than not I was shjot down. Now after reading this BB I have tried ot correct my ways of attacking buffs and spend a little mroe time getting alt over them. If the buff is a pro chances are he is goinmg to get you 75% of the time, if not well it is up to the skill of the attacking fighter pilot. zI say keep the buffs the way they are, otherwise they will seldom be flown if they get toned down. One other thing to note, make the buff pilot especially the 26's use there aft guns and waste their ammo at long rang on you. A nice ploy I like to use in a buff is use allbut 150 or so rounds let the fighter get in close to say 600 he will try and get a kill on you with least ammo usage, then unload on him.
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JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
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Lol Cobra. You see right thru me every time don't you.
Oh, BTW, damn you and your Yak attack! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) That 37mm tore right thru my arse.
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and I will take a shot at buff any time I can get - because not doing so will result damge made to a country i am flying for. however I will never - ever try to kill osty again - I had enough of that crap with FP. Same stands for Panzer - after i died putting 10-15 rounds of 37 mm and he pinged me with that worthless 7.62 turret 8 times and shot my wing clean (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
No MORE GV's attack for me in fighter.
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Best regards
Dmitry aka vfGhosty
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Hehe...tks Apache <S>
That darn Yak is a ground assualt's nightmare! Only 32 rounds but if you can make 'em count, it is hell on an armored column! (It's not bad on bomber groups either)
You guys just about had 25(?) yesterday. I had literally just logged on, when Jagdnine called out for help at that base!
<S> to you guys. BigJoe was darn close to sneaking in on his last M3 attempt. I only spotted him by luck, otherwise that base was yours!
Cobra
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The only real danger a buff ever has is to be ganged on by 2 fighters or to have a SPIT or worse yet, a CHOG or N1k on its 6. Why? These planes can spray hispano from long range, the chog especially only needs a few pings to kill the buff.
So move over 109, the CHOG is THE buff hunter bird of choice. Nothing like using a plane with BS guns to defeat another plane with BS guns eh? Oh sweet revenge.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Oh come on Cobra, you squished my Lancaster nicely last week! The LEAST you could do i lull on over here to Knight turf in a blimp and offer me a few free darts! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
...if the icons only showed player names...heck, I'd never make it off the ground! <hehe Id be hunted!>
Take care, cya all online tonight
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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I fly bombers most all the time. I like having otto better than having to sit for an hour and a half just scanning the skies and then having 2 or more fighters jump you. But then if I had otto I would takeoff, set climerate, and direction I wish to go and then go put the kid to bed and read him a story or 2, say hello to the wife (I think she is still hanging around?? gimme otto and I will find out), I could eat supper, {ALT TAB} and play a quick Mechwarrior4 match, check email, etc, etc. I like the otto idea.
The laser guided bombs... well. I actually do not like the fact that I can drop one bomb at at time from 30K and nail the target pretty much every time. But.... if there is some drift, and all the other stuff I will not pretend to know, then I think we would be playing the Multi-Player part of B-17II. I really dont think AH is going to act as Microprose should have and give us as detailed a bomber as they did. But I dont think I should look at a weather report or something and determine that I need to drop the bomb with the crosshairs pointing in a field just off to the west of my intended target to try and guess where I should be aiming when I release the bombs to hit the target. I know when I am in a bomber and your in your fighter cutting me to pieces I am in your sights.
So basically... I dont know what to do about the bombs. Maybe make buildings tougher? Maybe alot more targets for the bombers to look for? I dont know.. I gotta get back to work now :P
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"
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As of 3:10 PM EST Mar.19.2001
B17 kills 3043 killed 3445
B26 kills 2410 killed 3190
Lan kills 1527 killed 2626
Total kills 6980 Total killed 9261
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an important part of apaches post is that fighters don't have time to take on a buff realisticly. The laser guided bombs taking out the too easy fighter hangers is the problem. What's the point of attacking a buff after it has killed the effectiveness of your field with ease?
lazs
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Great thread.
I do alot of both. I never let a buff pass and I often fly bomber but rarely B17s.
I guess vs b17s I would be more likey to harrass it till another assassin arived but In the end I would take the shot while he was in the sight, or try to.
Do I think that Buffs have too much firepower? Well I dont know. I fly the lanc alot and it doenst seem like it.
I like to think about play ballance issues in the game and bomber guns are definalty one of those. I think it would be hard to beat the way it is now. You have to be serios to go after a bomber. And just trying to attrit it from its 6 oclock is unlikly to work. But I have seen repeatedly in the last few days a single con attacking a group of 5-7 b17s from 6 oclock and acctually getting one. I would have thought that imposible. It sure wouldnt work on me even with a single b17.
I think that flying a Bomber effectivley is as hard as flying a fighter effectivly. The top guys are a nightmare(craven). Most are approachable some are laughable. The leathality of the guns seems to cater well to all types. I think that my posts on how impossible it is to attack bombers are about 18 months old now. HiTech assured me it was possible and I kept at it till it was.
Given an experten in the bomber and an experten in the fighter. I think the Fighter still has the advantage. But you might have to wate a while for that advantage to materialize. You might have to let some go. But at least you can turn them away from the target.
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LOL Lazs! You crack me up. You really got all that out of Apache's post? I just re-read it 5 times to make sure we were actually reading the same thing.
I do believe Apache was adressing the issue of buff gunner lethality, wich he (like I) seem to find unusually high. Making the risk of intercepting the bomber outweigh the consequence.
BTW, I only feel this applies to B-17's... the rest are pretty much cake.
AKDejaVu
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I think about the only thing Fighter Ace 2 did right was the bombsight. You had to actually guesstimate where to aim on a scale like sight according to your altitude and speed. With a bit of practice you could hit a large target about 75% of the time, but no way you could nail a small target like ack unless you unless you dropped 3 or 4 bombs and walked them into the target.
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Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerrkorps.com)
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TPIguy has 10 kills and has been killed 2 times against the Lancaster III.
TPIguy has 9 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-26B
TPIguy has 6 kills and has been killed 3 times against the B-17G.
Buffs are easy to kill, if ya don't let em get off the runway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
TPIguy has 29 kills and has been killed 19 times against the Ostwind.
Thrown in just for fun
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I dunno guys. Evertime I take the time to setup my attack first, the bomber dies. If I just go right in without setting up, its a crpshoot in the bomber's favor.
I flew one mission many tours ago, where I shot down a Lanc, then a 17 and finally a 26.
The biggest problem is that there is no early warning of raids so the fighter is almost always attacking from a disadvantage. Both the British and Germans could watch raids forming while they were still over enemy territory on radar. Here we don't get any warning until they are already over our territory.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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I dunno guys. Evertime I take the time to setup my attack first, the bomber dies. If I just go right in without setting up, its a crpshoot in the bomber's favor.
I used to preach this too... but lately it hasn't been working on B-17s at all. No matter how much alt or how much of an advantage, those guns are simply lethal in the right hands... and there's more of them than any single fighter can bring to bear on it.
The lancs are much easier for some reason, I don't really know why. The B-26 is easy too, with the belly blind spot it has there is truly a blindspot to attack from. It just seems that even with a buff only having 1 set of guns capable of pointing straight down, more than 2 .50s are firing in that direction.
AKDejaVu
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If I read score page right I'm having 20 kills in B-17 and I've died 3 times in it...
K/D ratio about 6,66; The number of the beast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Staga:
I was flying Ta-152 in about 30k searching bombers when I saw a buff in a little lower.
I made a good attack, ping ping ping and wing-tip was gone...
It flyed well but I crashed in landing so there went 50points.
If I remember correct buffs armament are "Tuned Up" thus giving them a better change to survive in arena so why not also give better strenght to planes wings, bigger punch to small cal MGs and faster speed to slow planes so they can survive too?
i remember that staga, that was a good attack , i just got lucky. Good job trying to land that, you damn near made it
<S> bud
i havent really noticed that buff guns are that uber, cause i have experience on both ends...i think it is more a matter of the buff gunners skill. Some guys will just start pepperig the fighter at d 1.2 and not do much, but most of the fighters kills i have are a result of holding off to about 700 or less then concentrating fire on a wing tip. Firing all over or at the engine doesnt seem to cut it.
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deja u are beyond belief.. LOL is not an experession u should use since I'm sure you have never laughed in your life.... out loud or otherwise.
read him for the sixth time deja... "1 bomber can drop laser guided bombs with impunity and then take out fighter
after fighter because they are trying to get him quick and can't use the patience
required for these monsters before he makes the field totally useless. "
duh... everyone admits that a buff can be taken out but.... It's not easy. it takes time to set up. Apache not only mentions "laser guided" bombs but explains that gettin them "quick" is near impossible. But..... Why bother to get em quick? well.... before they drop the fighter hangers or fuel and make the field "useless". How can one bomber make a field useless before fighters can even set up and effective pass??? BECAUSE IT IS TOO EASY AND QUICK TO MAKE A FRIGGIN FIELD "USELESS".
End of reading comprhension lesson for the day.
lazs
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i was reading over the weekend about a tactic used by luftwaffe piltos where they stayed just outside the 3,500 ft range to keep gunners trained on them while another plane did a high speed cut - thats about 1.1k yards right? even then that was the limit of their range not the sweet spot - additionally moving targets were extrememly hard to hit which is why the high speed passes of folks like werner moulders were so effective
i believe it was a caption of a photo - i honestly dont remember now, perhaps someone has better info - but i have been hit in AH from 1.3k by one or two 1/2 inch bullets and had the entire empanage and both wings fall off - it doesnt seem very realistic, the damage seems extremely exaggerated
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Otto is still a hot topic for contention in Warbirds, after al lthe years I've been playing it neither fighters or bombers have been happy one way or the other. If you guys use you heads you'll attack a buff when its lining up and take the chance that he's in the norden, the fact still remains that a lone B17 was not the easy target you'd like to think it was.
As for pinpoint bombing...again this topic has been done to death over the years, if you give bombers some realistic spalsh damage and cumulative splash damage to targets maybe then we could carpet bomb in a more historical fashion and you guys would be happy as would I think the majority of buff pilots.
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Originally posted by ET:
As of 3:10 PM EST Mar.19.2001
B17 kills 3043 killed 3445
B26 kills 2410 killed 3190
Lan kills 1527 killed 2626
Total kills 6980 Total killed 9261
JU88 kills 651, been killed 1728
TBM kills 489, been killed 2244
Quit crying and stop lumping all of the bombers into one group. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mickey
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
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. If you guys use you heads you'll attack a buff when its lining up and take the chance that he's in the norden, the fact still remains that a lone B17 was not the easy target you'd like to think it was.
Gunners are just as lethal.. and they work while the pilot is dropping bombs. There just doesn't seem to be a reliable way to get buffs.
AKDejaVu
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Lazs, I'm not going to argue this with you, for you already have your oppinion... had it even before you read this thead.. even found a way to try to fit it in.
I'd just like to see one topic on anything be discussed without you coming in and claiming the ease with wich fighter hangars are destroyed is the REAL problem.
Maybe we could discuss how difficult it is to take down a buff... and see if it needs to be re-evaluated. Maybe see if the extra .3k window a buff is given needs to be re-thought. Maybe that could be discussed for once without you popping in and showing everyone your bellybutton yet again.
AKDejaVu
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Boycott Bombers!
bowser
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deja, u can't seperate the issues of the bombers being hard to take out from the targets being too easy to take out.
If the fighters can't take the time to make historic/realistic attacks on the bomberes then they can't make effective passes on em. Why can't they take the time? Well.... they just don't have the time. It is a combo of the targets being to easy to dissable and the bombs being too accurate. You simply don't have time to plan your attack in all but a few instances.
I believe that the guns are a little too wicked on the buffs but even 2 fighters with time could circumvent that in much the way mrfish describes. trouble is... there is no time. If the fields were hours apart that would be one solution but even you wouldn't like that i imagine.
If the bomb accuraccy was less that would help also. If the fields were more dificult to disable that would be more realistic and give more time also. If the guns were toned down a taste on the buffs that would help too. A combo of all three would be best i would think.
Simply making the bombers helpless would probly not go over very well with the buff guys. I would be willing to trade em realistic bomb damage for realistic bomb damage and realistic field hardness and usefulness.
lazs
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Lazs, I think that to keep buffs to normal operations altitude HTC could easily implement an error diffusion algorithm. Basically as you get xx feet higher than a set altitude the bombsight's error gets higher. At 10-15K, a chance for 2% error. As it gets higher the percentage goes up. When you get up around 30K the chance for error climbs to 90%.
Just an idea of course.
-SW
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Sure give us "error diffusion" but also give us more realistic ground damage while you are there because while we have laser norden's buffers need them because you have to drop your bomb right on top of the target to do any damage at all as there seems to be no 'splash damage' attributed to ground targets.
As for ground targets being to oeasy to destroy, ok make them harder but increase the rebuild time, what is it at now? 10-15 mins...this is a joke right? if there is one thing making buffing pointless its the fast rebuild time, it requires too much down to the second co-ordination to take a field down, there is absolutley no room for error as the field pops back to life too quickly. Extend the rebuild time and buffs will fly in a historical manner.
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We need area targets. Why can't airfields get damage if bombed to it's area?
Also, only runways should be rollable. So, bombing runways would become valid.
Cities can also be area tergets...no need for individual buildings.
Then we can have bomb drifting etc...
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sea.. that would seem to be a good idea. I believe all the ideas are good. What the real problem is, is that the BOMBERS AND THE STRAT are so gimicky and concession ridden that they are allmost impossible to fix with one simple solution.
Even combinations of solutions just point out the basic problem.... there really is no realistic use for bombers in the game and there is no realistic strat.
The bombers and the strat are the two worst features of the game... they are the most gimicky, unrealistic and concession ridden and.... They are as impossible to seperate from each other as deja and the stick up his ass.... They share vital organs. The bombers need something to do to affect the game but there are no targets and the targets we have are too small... too specific and too on or off.
Participating in the current bombing or strat takes the simulation out of the sim especialy when you compare it to the flight models and gunnery of say the fighters.
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 03-21-2001).]
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HTC could put plenty of strat into the arena but you fighter jocks would spit your dummies out, small things can be done right now like increasing the rebuild time of hangars etc with more stuff added later such as supply lines etc having effect on aircraft but again you'd like nothing more than to see bombers taken out of the game completely judging by the comments made in your last post. If anything is gamey and gimmicky its the ground vehicles and the ground war.
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Well, I think we could take a few ideas from "the past", and a couple new ones, and get a good solution. Such as:
- Have there be some amount of time for the bomb sight to "settle" a'la WarBirds. Right now you can drop bombs, spin the big bird around in a 90 degree bank, and get right back to dropping.
- For strategic bombers, they can ONLY drop their load in halves a'la Air Warrior. So 7 1k's at a time for the Lanc (or 1 4K, then 9 1K's). This means the bomber dude has to actually plan out his delay settings and approach. So a heavy gets two passes at a field, and that's it. This may also make tactical bombers like the B-26 more useful for field captures since they will have finer control of their ordinance.
- Add the fragmentation damage as suggested - only fair if bombs will now always be dropped in large salvo. This means a couple of heavies would be there more to soften up a field with a couple of big salvoes, then let the JABO finish the job on anything left standing. Bombers should get perk points for partial building damage in such case.
- Add bomb drift as suggested. The higher you drop from, the more drift and separation in the pattern on impact - all random, of course. Which is good and bad. Bad because you no longer have precision guided munitions. Good because the swath of destruction 14 1000's can cause is pretty harsh. With salvo bombing and blast damage, you WANT a little driftage and pattern spread.
These changes would no reduce the defensive capabilities of the heavy strategic bomber. It would make that plane good for what it was designed for - laying waste to landscape from up high. 2 or 3 '17's or Lancs could still more or less take out a field, it'll just take more planning than is required now. You'd have to plan runs for multiple passes on the hangars to ensure enough damage on them, plus to get hits on secondary targets.
For HQ attacks, you'd need the escort to bring bombs to go down and finish the job if there was excess drift in the heavy drop. Which isn't altogether unrealistic. It would require a planned, cooperative effort to take out an enema HQ.
Oh ... and lets not have crater damage on runways. Anyone who's flown WarBirds in the last few months knows exactly why.
-DoK
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revin and dok... both have good suggestions. I would (and have) suggested also that the availability of fighters not be tied to the destuction of a building or two and that it be either tied to many revetments or simply that fighters be available till the field is completely closed. Same with radar and fuel. Agree with dok on the "cratered runways"
I certtainly don't mind "splash damage" but I would hope that making more targets be part of it.
rev... Oddly enough...so long as the entire (cough) "strat" of bombers is to punish fighters.... There will be animosity. If "winning" the war was tied to the destruction of a couple of cities while fields could be say, bypassed or at least not essential to winning... relations might improve.
lazs
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Laz> I like the fact that in AH you can hit the hangars and disable that vehicle, it adds a little more strat over other brands, but perhaps as a compromise how about staling an idea from the last WB map and have vehicles parked on the sides of runways as targets linked in with the existing strat. How about a group of buff needing to hit the hangars and (with some kind of "error diffusion" as suggested by Wulfe) harder to hit parked vehicles needing to be destroyed before that particular vehicle is disabled at a field? It would then require more ordnance to disable vehicles as we do now which keeps you fighter pukes ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) happy whilealso giving hte buff pilot a little more strat and more targets to drop on. It also places objects over alot more of the areas of the airfields which are otherwise empty which will make carpet bombing (with a little more splash damage) a viable tactic and also create a situation where as Dok suggests more organisation is required with a few jabo pilots...although I would like to see a little less emphasis on jabo pilots otherwise buff pilots could again find themselves not needed in the arena anymore.
Dok's made a good point about the norden settling, I would liek to see a norden that takes even longer to settle to force buffs to make realistic egress' from target before returning...if its any consolation I do this anyway now.
I would'nt like to see the AW scenario of unleasing half a payload at a time, if we get better splash damage then leave this up to buff pilots, with more 'drift' on the bombs when dropping them the pilot who learns to salvo and set his delays properly will be more succesful, another skill for buff drivers to learn.
Also perhaps we could increase the toughness of buffs while decreasing the strength of the guns, while the 'B29 slave system' is a crutch for gameplays sake for those who are not in a squad or liek to buff alone I also realise this just makes hitting a group of buffs impossible if all their guns are slaved on one con. This again would promote buff pilots to be a little more organised, even lone wolves would perhaps realise its time to jump into the criminaly under-used mission planner we have in AH.
One a final note Lazs I think you are maybe being a little paranoid in saying "so long as the entire (cough) "strat" of bombers is to punish fighters" as hitting bomber hangars stops buffs and hitting barracks hampers field capture and also hitting radar and fuel affects all planes.
I have found buffing in AH quite enjoyable and like I said above I try to fly in a historical manner even though the game allows me to take shortcuts, its down to personal taste if you take them but I relish the challenge a few small changes would offer us buff pilots as outlined in the various posts above.
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rev... that is the idea with revetments. all planes in their revetments have to be destroyed before the field can no longer send up planes... simple and realistic huh? the bigger fields would have more revetments. Mainly, a field should be all but history before it is unable to send up fighters.
splash damage... less bomb accuracy and tougher bombers with less (cough) leathal guns. All good ideas since they would in fact add realism and be more fun.
lazs