Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on March 19, 2001, 03:37:00 PM
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AH Has had monitors with mute and warn priv's since December.
They are accountable to HTC only and will remain anonymous.
The reasons we chose not to disclose who they are is to allow them to play and not get stuck in the middle of a hassle like the AKSeaWulf thread.
Search past topics on complaints of channel 1 usage to see why monitors exist today.
With any community some type of enforcement of rules is always needed, monitors are 1 of the methods we use to enforce our arena rules. And if you look at what powers the monitors have, administering a 10 min mute is not much power.
HiTech
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Sounds good to me HT.
Now, who's up for shooting my butt down in the MA with savage glee?
-Westy
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Well, that clears things up.
Doesn't apply to me, but thanks for letting us know.
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NT
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Hey Westy...you got a date babe! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ice
13thTAS
It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!
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I can see the need for them in the extreme sense HT... but you gotta wonder about this one.
I see the need to squelch offensive chatter. I don't see the need to squelch annoying chatter. If that was the case, 90% of the pilots flying would be squelched 90% of the time.
Maybe that could be re-itterated to the "monitors".
AKDejaVu
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Bahahaaaa! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I've got too much mileage with the 13TAS already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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How about putting out specific rules. IE: A word list and or specific topic's or attitudes ...or feelings that would warrant a mute. (see how easy censorship gets out of control?) Perhaps Wulf should have been muted for saying "dick", but thats not what happened, some KGB member or another got a tad over zealous. err..less of course it was HTC staff...your game, your rules.
In otherwords, specificity.
SwampRat
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I would like to have a squelch list that loads automatically on startup. I never have been big on any "community" (I take it one individual at a time) and being able to never hear from some folks would be a blessing, unfortunately.
This would pretty much cancel out the general rule to monitor as the full time amazinhunks would get pigeon-holed away and no one would ever hear them.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Y
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Originally posted by hitech:
AH Has had monitors with mute and warn priv's since December.
They are accountable to HTC only and will remain anonymous.
The reasons we chose not to disclose who they are is to allow them to play and not get stuck in the middle of a hassle like the AKSeaWulf thread.
Search past topics on complaints of channel 1 usage to see why monitors exist today.
With any community some type of enforcement of rules is always needed, monitors are 1 of the methods we use to enforce our arena rules. And if you look at what powers the monitors have, administering a 10 min mute is not much power.
HiTech
HT,
Interesting solution to a problem. I do have a question about it. My question is due to the situation that caused you to reveal the presence of monitors. I am not trying to be difficult about this, I am concerned as to what happened.
My question is just what are the parameters that the monitors have to determine when or who will be muted? I ask this as I think if there are going to be "behavior adjusters" in the arena with the power to impact the customers game play then the customers deserve to know what the limits are. It should not be a mystery or arbitrary decision on the part of a monitor to mute a player. There should be guidelines and it is only proper to let all players know what the rules are. Some terms and words are obvious candidates for muting. What are the other "conditions" for muting?
I am very confused as I was "present" during the situation that spawned this and the other thread about it. I saw nothing that would warrant a muting of either player involved.
If the monitor made the decision to mute one player based on the "country" of the mutee, that is a gross misjudgment based on bias and should be corrected.
If the monitor made the decision based on a perceived "attitude" of the main participants, he (or she) got the wrong one.
If players will be muted for having a "verbal" disagreement about game play then both players should suffer the same fate.
If the muting will be an ongoing thing (and I assume it will) the rules should be posted to everyone. The impacting of a customers game play by a monitor should be based on behaviors that the customer has been allowed to be made aware of and not a "random shot from above".
I sincerely hope you can clear this up for us HT.
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Wouldn't a permanent squelch list be a more unobtrusive way to handle these problems? I have lobbied for PSL for quite some time now...surely it wouldn't be a difficult thing to do. JMO
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I take for granted I guess that maybe everyone wasnt raised the same way I was. It is just second nature for myself and several others to show comnmon decentsy. It is many times better to hold your tongue than to spout off at the first urge of anger. Why this is even the issue it is here today is really a sad testament to todays society. But!!! I dont fly AH to spend my energy argueing and bickering like adolescants without correct parental guidance, I came to fly WWII AC and hangout with folks I like (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S> all, its only a game, and life is on the outside of the moniter.
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Haven't you guys thought that maybe "verboten topics" or "illegal words lists" are not the issue at all?
Have you possibely considered that its just possible that HTC is trying to cut down on the totally unnecessary infantile fits of anger on channel 1 ?
It you can't keep it civil, take it to private.
*my first and last words on this issue, so don't bother replying to me farther down the thread*
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Seawulfe, you got muted for ten minutes. Is it that big a deal to you? You called somebody a dick on channel 1. The other fella may have instigated it. The other guy said he logged soon after. Who knows? maybe that's why he didn't get muted.
I think you are a good guy, but you fell into a trap. You reacted positively to a dogfight you were in, but you let the other guy's negative reaction pull you to his level. Next time try to stay positive, and you won't be the center of this kinda stuff again.
We've all been in a good dogfight, given a <S> and had some moron give us an insult. When they do that, you already won the arguement right then. He's already made an bellybutton of himself and you didn't. Type a (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and that will let the rest of the arena know who the moron is and who the good sport is.
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Well these monitors _can't_ be that bad, either that or they're not on when I'm around (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
The only muting I ever had was once when I accused Hitech of flying a hacked FE... musta caught him early in the morning before the caffeine/beer/pizza kicked in.
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How many of you guys have typed something into the parser, and then deleted it?
I know I have. I also know that there have been a few cases where I wish that I had. If I didn't think twice though, there would have been many, many more that I would regret. If your ire gets too far up, its time to log and cool off a bit, gain some perspective.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
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I told myself I wasn't going to reply to the "other" thread mainly because I wasn't there to form an original opinion.
My thoughts on how I behave myself online:
I am who I am and I do not hide behind an alias if possible. Since I was on and quit flying for a while and came back I did have to use an alias, MarkAT instead of Mark because someone else had picked it up.
I speak to others, either through the message buffer or on voice comms in the same manner I would speak to them if I were face to face. No exceptions! I refuse to allow myself to hide behind any annonymity that the internet may provide.
I don't curse and use "colorfull" adjetives attached to my sentences in real life, why would I do so over the internet?
I have found my place in life, I fully realize my own personal worth, I am secure in my manliness so therefore the use of words alluding to fornication, defecation or any body parts are no longer needed.
When I am in a conversation in real life I am embarrassed by those who use "colorful" language not because of a situation it puts me in or my objection to having to hear it, which is considerable, but because of the fact that those same people, many of whom are very bright, begin to appear very ignorant. It's like they lost their vocabulary. I normaly just walk away... I can't always do that if I want to fly much, we are in a "room" together and I would have to quit my personal enjoyment of flying.
I do unto others as I would have them do unto me. A simple and very effective rule to live by regardless of your religion if any. I also beleive that everyone's rights and freedoms end as soon as is starts to infringe on the rights and freedoms of others.
You may not agree with my thinking, but these are and will continue to be the rules that will govern my behavior in an Aces High arena or any other arena I choose to participate in.
(http://home.att.net/~lmluper/P47.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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HighTech I believe you have a default and custom head position saving. As I do believe its almost there to implement a simple code that checks a txt, dat, ini or anything like it where the info on handles that must be squelched when you entering arena. You can update list offline by deleting handles of the list with text editing tool such as notepad and on line you can update the list by using a well known DOT command. I dont think its to difficult for you, and I would really welcome this feature.
<EDIT> I have tiped a long reply in the previos thread but couldnt post it due closed thread, (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) so just repeating what the guys just said...
<S> all and squik-squik-squelched (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Best regards
Dmitry aka vfGhosty
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So these guys have been on for 2.5 months and we never new it....
Either they are doing their job in a very credible way or the arena is increadibly polite. I think we had an anomoly in this instance.
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The problem seemed to stem from a warning for ONE thing (language) that was adhered to...... but then muted for another (ummm argument perpetuation?) WITHOUT prior warning to that specific infringement.......
Due to paranoia.... i keep thinking someone with this power would just take any slight excuse and mute you whenever they could if they had some reasoning (squadmates of one party, hate, etc etc etc)... maybe this board does that to me, dunno (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
How about needing 2 confirmed mutes to get it done... An absolute mute by one person could be logged so when it comes flame time here, seeing as they brought it up you can show them exactly why....
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NT
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 03-20-2001).]
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The fact that you have to have monitors is sad if you ask me.
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Dont worry dagfly, well send some your way as soon as u go flat rate at iEN....oh, wait a minute
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Y
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Thanks for taking an effort to clear some of this up HT, but could you be a bit more specific, as to what guidelines they use to mute, any checks on abuse you guys have etc?
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WB's has them in the FO arena, and from my limited experience in there, they need them. That is also sad.
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Silly...
If ya got muted, ya prolly deserved it... or were five secs away from *really* deserving it. If ya didn't deserve it? Then you were probably pretty close to deserving it... and 10 minutes of you giving yer head a shake aint a big deal.
It's sad that we need monitors here, but alas... a five sec scan of the buffer at any odd time tells me it aint that bad an idea. Nay - it tells me that these monitors could be accused of slackin' to a degree bordering on incompetence.
I feel really sorry about all you free speechers out there getting yer precious liberty snatched away from you. Truly sad. Sadder still is when decent folk are forced squelch an entire channel, essentially cutting themselves off from the entire *community*, on account of a few punks. Even *sadder* is that most of these "punks" are adults.
Use yer heads - hold yer tongues. Be men about it. Whatever it is. If you think your being muted was unjustified? Hold your tongue - and be a man about it. Complainin' about monitors says just as much about you as if you hit the send button on yer post right now, marched directly into the MA and launched into an offensive nonsensical tirade. You wouldn't do it. And you should endeavor to keep that same head despite whatever tyranny of gangbanging et al that awaits you there. Simply put, grow up and learn to deal with it.
If you worry about monitors, I reckon you have much more, on a personal level, to be worrying about.
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The whole post on the UBB could of been subverted had you shown equality in your powers. Instead you chose one party of a two party argument.
The second paragraph is what threw my into my rage. How many times has there been a problem with me before this?
Anyway, it's your game and you can discriminate as you feel fit. Funny, both parties were insulted but only one side was "punished".
Rather than repeat myself, I find it a lot easier to cut n paste...
-SW
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Please if your going to this length to calm ch1 down give us a way to turn off all the buffers.
Friendly ,enemy all chat off. Why? This game is fun. Dealing with goofs somedays destroys it.
The guys on your own side can squeak at each other as bad as red vs green.
As a side note what you do not see on ch1 will just come here. Even if you are muted you can still take your arguement to the bbs
EYE
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Yeah, gadfly is right. My life would not be complete if I didn't hear "killa"'s wonderful oratory in the WB's main for, what? two years? Didn't he finally screw up and harass a woman in the main arena? I think thats how he was finally booted, or the story went.
Could have been much worse though, if they'd have had monitors over there, we couldn't have heard his spew for that two years.
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I got a 21" monitor and it dont need a mute! It never talks back! Westy Drop your drawers so I gots somethin bright to shot at, wets end of sight on 10 gauge!
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
The whole post on the UBB could of been subverted had you shown equality in your powers. Instead you chose one party of a two party argument.
The second paragraph is what threw my into my rage. How many times has there been a problem with me before this?
Anyway, it's your game and you can discriminate as you feel fit. Funny, both parties were insulted but only one side was "punished".
Rather than repeat myself, I find it a lot easier to cut n paste...
-SW
My Cod! Just give it a rest wont you? You have stated your points upteen-hundred times already. Think this inability to get over might be a signal to something???
<RING RING!>Hey! Wulfie, Its the clue phone, I think its for you!
sad;lfhsaplkj
Thats my head hitting the keyboard! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
LOL Geez!
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 03-19-2001).]
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Yeah Dingy... HT lost a decent person and kept... well you.
I guess his intervention did work, he's keeping all the children in his playground.
-SW
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HTC, before you lock this thread, thanks for the info and good move, from a paying customer.
Fury
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
Yeah Dingy... HT lost a decent person and kept... well you.
I guess his intervention did work, he's keeping all the children in his playground.
-SW
As if insults aimed at me arent enough, you go and insult the entire arena. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ok gang, Im done with Wulfie at this point. I apologize for all the wasted bandwidth this feud has consumed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-Ding
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I still dont understand the need for monitors.
We have a squelch command.
I dislike very much the fact that another "player" has any say so in anyway form or fashion in what I say or do online.
This leaves way to much power in the hands of any "player" who no matter how good and holy he might be will still form opinions of other players he flies and fights against.
I dont think this unknown godpowered monitor "player" cared much for Seawulf.
This isnt right.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just pretend that they are baseball umpires in the off season; but where the heck are they when you really need one?
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I have no prob with HTC appointed refs.
No problem at all.
It amazes me that it has taken this long for someone to get the treatment.
Sorry for the guy that felt slighted. toejam happens.
Y
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Im all for it, this "Monitor" thingy-ma-do.
I mean even if it's guys that are like a bunch of Twisted Sister groupies... willing to do anything for free, as long as they have a title and some "special" control bestode upon them by HTC.
Lol...sheesh.
Still, I will for a free AH account "Monitor" all the bad, terrible people that argue and naturally verbally spar with their opponents while excited and stimulated by a such a competative online environment which AH undeniably provides.
I don't care if they are so wound up in the sim they actually talk and taunt others in a competative and agressive way. They will be squelched, banned, and driven to a public BBS to vent as I will make their arguments in the heat of the moment silent.
I guarrentee I will promise that per HiTech Im accountable to HTC only, and be anonymous.
Hmmmmmmm.
Naw, Ill pay my $30 a month and and enjoy myself. I just hope those tards don't start using their wannabe HTC employee tools on my dime.
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[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Creamo... were you in 6th RFC Blacklions for DoA ? (or the 5th ?). If so <S> x-squady (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by petrel:
Creamo... were you in 6th RFC Blacklions for DoA ? (or the 5th ?). If so <S> x-squady (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hey Petrel, didn't know you was a UK guy! <S>
Nexx
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thought this thread was about computer monitors (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Just another "doesn't apply to me " thread
Eagler
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Originally posted by llbm_MOL:
I still dont understand the need for monitors.
We have a squelch command.
I dislike very much the fact that another "player" has any say so in anyway form or fashion in what I say or do online.
This leaves way to much power in the hands of any "player" who no matter how good and holy he might be will still form opinions of other players he flies and fights against.
I dont think this unknown godpowered monitor "player" cared much for Seawulf.
This isnt right.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
What HE said
SwampRat
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Too much power? This power will be abused in order to...
-Usurp the government?
-Incredible financial gain?
-Subvert the constitution?
-Steal nuclear secrets to sell to the middle east and china?
-Steal the rook (knight, bishop) secret attack planes?
-Hold people ransom for perk points?
Or perhaps just keep things a bit quieter on channel 1, so that those quiet majority of customers who simply want to log on and fly a bit from time to time don't have to squelch 1.
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Agree with Fatty, however the swearing doesn't bother me as much as the racist stuff.
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I find this to be more than a little disappointing. We don't want to control anybody's behavior, we want them to show some self-control. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for everybody. This subject has been broached many times on the board. The suggestions of granting people some power to help alleviate this is something we were strongly against at first. We considered a lot of other options, but their drawbacks were worse. We reversed and decided to try this method. It's been working smoothly for the last few months, but we also realize there will occasionally be problems.
I personally am pretty liberal about it. A simple reminder usually works for me when I see somebody losing their poise or pushing the envelope. But that's me too, I've seen people react very negatively when given a similar reminder from another player. I am also far more likely to witness poor conduct when people don't know that I'm online. It's one thing when somebody gets carried away, it's another when somebody is blatantly trying to abuse, incite, or offend people. I have had to summarily dismiss people from the service for egregious and indefensible behavior. But those are people who didn't come to play the game, they came to abuse the system.
Some people would like to have a very clear cut definition of what is and isn't acceptable. We can no more make a clear definition about that than congress can define what pornography is and isn't or the NBA can define what is and isn't a technical foul. I can give some clear-cut examples but I can't define the gray area. There is no clear line to toe. It comes down to our opinion as to whether something is detrimental to our business. We can't uniformly enforce a strict policy and we make no claims to do so and will not be liable for failing to do so. For most people this doesn't matter since they're not trying to toe the line.
We've had no issues like this one the past few months that this has been in place but inevitably something will come up that will ruffle some feathers. What concerns me more is reading a post like the one DoK made recently as a somebody new to AH and his observations concerning the conduct of some players. How's it appear to the new guy who just came online for the first time?
In this particular instance, I would have initially thought that a mute was probably not warranted, but even so, it's not like it's capital punishment. Hopefully, it keeps you from saying something you would regret and nobody else wants to hear. Judging by the vitriol in the other thread, I'd say it was a good thing if that was an example of where the conversation was going in the arena.
We realize that questionable calls may happen. We're not doing this to be unfair and try to target or slight people. I'm sorry if you feel that way. It's not something we like to have to deal with. Between developing and supporting the game and administrating the business side, we're always stretched for time and having to work out of multiple holes. To think that our motivations in having to deal with this is other than a pragmatic necessary evil is something I can't even comprehend.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Some are questioning the need for the moderators. I am not.
I am questioning bias in regards to moderation. Are certain things acceptable from certain players but not others? With the case in point, it doesn't sound like either were saints... and both probably merited muting. One was chosen to be muted.
The later conflict then comes from the fact that two people were acting like an ass, but one now has the "oh yea, well they muted you not me" rhetoric added in. My how things escalate.
Keep it fair.. if a conversation is going in the wrong direction, don't shut one participant up. Once again, I do feel these things should be reitterated to the moderators.
AKDejaVu
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During my years in law enforcement, we found that just being seen was sometimes a deterent to unruly behaviour.
Wonder how it would affect (effect?) the arena if we saw in the roster..SYSOP? We don't need to know who SYSOP is but we would know he/she could bust our chops if the need arose.
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Deja, think it was answered here in this whole paragraph:
Some people would like to have a very clear cut definition of what is and isn't acceptable. We can no
more make a clear definition about that than congress can define what pornography is and isn't or the
NBA can define what is and isn't a technical foul. I can give some clear-cut examples but I can't define the
gray area. There is no clear line to toe. It comes down to our opinion as to whether something is
detrimental to our business. We can't uniformly enforce a strict policy and we make no claims to do so
and will not be liable for failing to do so. For most people this doesn't matter since they're not trying to toe
the line.
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I dont really feel either had a chance to get started ranting on channel 1. One was muted before it got started. this argument might have dissappeared before it even started. This monitor"whoever it was" jumped the gun. If an aurgument starts to get outta hand and it runs rampant THEN a warning should be issued. Then! if the participants continue to aurgue they should BOTH be muted. I also think more warning should be given. I didnt have a clue that we even had monitors in the arena. I can now see the need for them but I dont like them. I think they should be trained better than this guy was that muted said player and more warnings should be given. I think if both players had known there was such a monitor in place they would have stopped argueing after the first warning. Not knowning this was in place and cuased these last two threads and the unease we are all feeling. NEXT time y'all implement somethign like this I think it would be a much BETTER idea to let us children know about before something liek this happens. I MEAN!!! Let us REALLY know. I dont read every thread in here and I dont always look at the news section. I think something in the form of a pop up message whan you log into the MA(like you have for the TA) would be in order for this kind thing. I dont like suprises like this and from the feel of it I'm not the only one. Suckass excluded on that last remark.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!
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NT
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 03-20-2001).]
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I think that anyone selected to be a moderator would be someone in touch with the community and, hence, has read these two threads.
Whatever opinions fall out on either side of this argument will almost certainly be reflected in their future decisions.
My own reaction to this whole thing is a pair of shrugging shoulders. If this the is largest problem the AH community has to deal with then I say "WOOHOO!"
-Sudz (not a moderator)
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Ya know, its REAL tempting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
MUST.....RESIST.....
-Ding
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
You can at least learn from the mistake.
-SW
I we can only hope you learned yours...think before engaging fingers into text.
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(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm/spiny.gif)
Yeah I learned mine.
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Thats unfortunate for you in the long run...since a man who recognizes and learns from his mistakes takes 2 steps forward, then one step back....man who never recognizes and learns from his mistakes takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
I hope this thread puts to rest the case of the "Unfair Mute"...stay tuned next week for another re-run of "The Chog needs to be perked!"... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Edit:spelling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Pathetic.
I would much rather have had a nice lengthy NEWS bulletin from Pyro.
Instead he has to waste his time by giving a fediddleing social intercourse lesson to some who behave as if they sh&t thier Huggies full and aint been changed in hours.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-20-2001).]
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(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm/spin2.gif)
[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 03-20-2001).]
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I find the whole thing at least interesting.
Do you have these monitor powers Ripsnort?
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Wulfie,
Maybe the monitor was just a friend of Dingy's. Maybe their even in the same squad. Maybe he was mad cause you shot him down too many times last week. Maybe his squad has a grudge agianst our squad. Maybe you were bish and he always takes the side of rooks over bish. Maybe he doen't out right abuse his power but maybe he exploits every little gray areas to settle old scores. Unless is a flagrent abuse HTC prolly can't say anthing. As long as each incident is within a fuzzy gray area he can always claim honest intent. Maybe the fuzzyness gives him just enough wiggle room to settle old grudges. Since he can operate in complete anonymity we'll never know. Maybe thats why goverments have those sunshine laws. I understand the need for monitoring. I'm not so sure I'm ok with the idea of a race of uber-customers lording power over the other paying customers with no "public" accountability or oversight.
Would "D!ck" have been ok? How about "prettythanghole"? or "4$$h0lE"? "Warper" "HO DWEEB" etc...? Are those ok on Monday night but not ok on Wed?
Is it ok if you're a Rook but not a Bish?
Even with all those possible, and over the course of enough time probable, abuses of authority I can see HTC point and have some sympathy for their delima. They're not doing this for kicks, they are trying to solve a problem. Its a problem that most all of us have recognized at one time or another. Its a problem we've all ASKED them to solve. Maybe uber-customer monitors are a necessary evil. I can prolly live with that.
What I think is the real mistake the consistancy. If you want to clean up the arena then REALLY do it. A little swearing now and then doesn't make me hysterical. I've been lucky enough to miss the racial rants. But what really poisons the arena day in and day out hour by hour is the constant whining, (insert plane) dweeb accusations, gangbang accusations, HO dweeb accusations, Spray and pray accusations, excuse making,poor sportsmanship, etc...etc... Can they go on like that all they want as long as they don't say "dick"???? There is a lot more out there that needs to be muted that doesn't necessarily have the word "dick" in it. I think in balance its prolly orders of magnitude more damaging to the arena experience over time. If not, your just treating the rash and ignoring the gangrene.
Now I'm not for "more" or "less" monitoring. I'm for "proper" monitoring.
Do what you want with the occational bad word but at least make sure in addition you solve the REAL problem. If you don't have the stomach to open THAT can of worms, them just drop the whole thing and give us a permenant squelch list. One click, silenced forever.
Regards,
Wab
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first a cuss word editor then a squelch now
secret police?
great minds think alike . hitler stalin ect ect ect . now add htc.
bad idea. chearleaders controling what is expressed . cant wait for you to have competition.
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Originally posted by -towd_:
first a cuss word editor then a squelch now
secret police?
great minds think alike . hitler stalin ect ect ect . now add htc.
bad idea. chearleaders controling what is expressed . cant wait for you to have competition.
Hey towd...it's called Prozac. Ask your doctor about it.
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I agree with Westy on having news updates from Pyro as opposed to him having to deal with issues like this. But I also respectfully disagree that this is a minor issue. It's something that was bound to come up, and certainly will again.
People do not like to be "shut-up" or even told to. Put yourself in any other social gathering at almost any level and imagine someone forcing you to "shut-up" when it's not warranted. What are you most likely to do?
There is apparently a need for moderators, although I don't know for the world why with the .squelch command. I must also say that I think with the official statement that there is a "grey area", there's gonna be more ruffled feathers than many would think, especially now that most know the moderators exist. Not at all trying to cause trouble here, but think about it. Imagine your local police enforcing "grey" laws. (Ok sorry, I watch "Cops" too but you get my drift)
I watched ch#1 carefully last night with this moderator issue in mind and I'll tell you, I saw PLENTY of "reasons" IN MY OWN OPINION (very conservative) that warranted a quick mute in comparison to what happened the other night. Hell there's been a few times I should have been muted, as with most! But it's no big deal till it happens to YOU.
Having moderators without specific guidlines to follow is asking for trouble. Players not having specific guidlines to follow WITH the presence of moderators is even worse. I still firmly refuse to believe bias can be avoided and I truly think bias played a huge role in Wulf's mute.
Lastly, if this has to be, then why not shut both off at the onset of "hostilities", it's an easy concept really. I use the .squelch command as soon as someone really starts to get on my nerves, because I know if I don't, being the hothead I am, I'm gonna bite back. If I didn't, I'd be muted about 1/2 the time.
Just 2 cents
SwampRat
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aren't we talking about not being able to type messages for a very short amount of time or does someone knock at your door and hack your fingers off with a meat cleaver?
As someone else stated earlier, go change your diaper, get your thumb out of your mouth and grow the hell up. There are BIGGER problems in the world than this you paranoid babies
Personally I'd like to see the abusers banded from the GAME - permanently (but that's a $$$ issue). I squelch ch1 95% of the time to avoid having to read the crap. So if I don't answer you there, that is the reason, it's not that I'm upset that you shot me down again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Originally posted by Eagler:
go change your diaper, get your thumb out of your mouth and grow the hell up. There are BIGGER problems in the world than this you paranoid babies
Eagler[/QUOTE
Mass insult and..and..HE SAID THE H WORD!!
MUTE'EM..MUTE'EM (join in guyz) MUTE'EM MUTE'EM.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
no really
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
SERIOUSLY FOLKS
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
SwampRat
[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Eeyore! You keep missing the busses out of town. Whats the problem? Why haven't you hit the road if you don't like the service or the product here? *You* look like the idiot by staying, not the people and company you're constantly slamming.
Swamprat, IMO, I think the whole situation is being made a bit too federal. this situation, and others like it, are not like college students protesting and getting shut down by the national guard. Or being in a public auditorium and being told by the local police to shut up because what you're saying doesn't jive with the party doctrine.
This isn't constitutional. This is a business issue.
What has happened here is nothing more than two customers in a restaraunt being disagreeable and the head waiter having to take care of business because the restaurant owner who hired him includes it in the head waiters reponsibilities.
I personally don't like to frequent places of entertainment, be they movie theatres, restaurants or other pubs, where it's common for someone to shout out "DICK!", other foul language or worse of all racial crap.
I do not blame HTC at all for what they chose to do or what the person who used the mute did. I'm rather satisfied with thier choice of means to try keep some level of mature decorum in the arena without having to pay a damned babysitter to be on duty 24 hours in there.
The MA is bad enough with some of the two week trial blithering idiots spouting off.
Just because a customer paid the door fee doesn't mean they can act anyway they like it and someone pulling some of this crap at a night club, concert or a health club would promptly have thier bellybutton on the asphalt by the house employees.
All IMO of course.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-20-2001).]
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I don't agree with your comparison to a social situation Swamp Rat. While there is a lot of social interaction here, users enter into it agreeing to the terms of use put forth by HTC. And the local "police" will just mute you for 10 minutes, and not beat you with a billy club.
I do like your comparison to COPS though. Some of the crap I see fly by on Channel 1 reminds me of the white trash guy who tears off his shirt while he screams at 3 cops and then tries to fight 'em as he's wrassled to the ground (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
This whole stupid moderator issue has been blown way out of proportion. Is it possible that the Monitors can abuse their power...sure. Is it really that big of a deal? NO. If you get warned for spouting off, then try this . . . SHUT THE diddly UP! And if you must, take it to private. If you press the issue further, even if only slightly, and get muted, it's your own damned fault.
And SW, you got muted for 10 minutes...B.F.D. Maybe it was a misunderstanding, maybe the monitor was overzealous, maybe Dingy should have been muted too...B.F.D. Now you know that it wasn't just profanity (not that "dick" is really profane) that got you muted, it was the general attitude. If you hadn't responded to Dingy's bait in the first place, none of this would have happened. Less whining, more flying...if he doesn't want to respond in kind to your <S>, so the diddly what?
SOB
...thankful, after re-reading my post, that there's not a profanity filter on the BB (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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SOB, my words have no effect anymore and mean nothing.. I will just point you to a part of Maverick's post (who was there).
"If the monitor made the decision based on a perceived "attitude" of the main participants, he (or she) got the wrong one."
Thank you Maverick.
I just wanted that to be clear.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
"If the monitor made the decision based on a perceived "attitude" of the main participants, he (or she) got the wrong one."
On that I can't agree or disagree...since I wasn't there.
My point was that he didn't just mute you for saying 'dick'. It was for your bad attitude, percieved or not. And I guess my point overall is that it really wasn't that big of a deal. But that's just my opinion, and you know what those are like . . .
SOB
[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Originally posted by -towd_:
first a cuss word editor then a squelch now
secret police?
great minds think alike . hitler stalin ect ect ect . now add htc.
bad idea. chearleaders controling what is expressed . cant wait for you to have competition.
Coming from Mr. Self control himself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
G, D, And Run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I will have you know -ammo- that I sent HTC a fruit basket and a bottle of MD 20/20 for Christmas and have BBS monitor rights.
One more crack at our sincere, gentle, fun, meek and understanding good natured friend TOWD, and Ill squelch your bellybutton right the hell off the forum.
You have been warned.
( I gotta make a neat little pop up .gif like you get in the game when they warn you though, cuz this isn't quite as impressive)
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[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 03-20-2001).]
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I should be a moderator... I mean - if you fail my standards you must be scraping below the bottom of the barrel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Creamo:
I will have you know -ammo- that I sent HTC a fruit basket and a bottle of MD 20/20 for Christmas and have BBS monitor rights.
One more crack at our sincere, gentle, fun, meek and understanding good natured friend TOWD, and Ill squelch your bellybutton right the hell off the forum.
You have been warned.
( I gotta make a neat little pop up .gif like you get in the game when they warn you though, cuz this isn't quite as impressive)
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
"If the monitor made the decision based on a perceived "attitude" of the main participants, he (or she) got the wrong one."
Thats diddlying it!! You dont get a clue do you!
Know why I responded the way I did?? Cause I dont care for you, Wabbit or Deja and wanted to let you know just how little I care for ya. THAT was a mistake and Ive admitted it numerous times.
But lets look at the big picture. Once you saw the "Whatever", you were all over me and feeding off some of the other players who sided with you like Mav. To me it was like a gangbang in the arena. You and Mav were chewing out my ass, and here I was realizing how foolish all this was trying to just give it up. But no. Everytime I tried to end this whole dick comparison you would push the argument just a little bit further by bringing in more useless "facts" or trying to "explain" your points to others. You just wouldnt give up!
It was either I saw your way or you were going to persist.
How ironic! Its been the same way with you and this entire fiasco on the boards! You consistently badger the entire community with "how you were wronged" and to convince them that you are the victim. Give it diddlying up and move on! I've got news for you buddy, theres two victims here.
I am trying to move on from here and I keep seeing my name trashed both on the boards and in the arena.
I was diddlying wrong for typing anything that evening, I should have just ignored you and kept my feelings to myself. But now try as I might to move on, I am constantly reminded of that evening.
Now, heres a message to EVERYONE whos contributing to this post. LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. I want to move on.
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 03-20-2001).]
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Holy.....jeez Dingy.
Welp, that outta bring out the 'Ol inevitable..
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/yellockfolder.gif)
Ahhh, yes, better than daytime TV.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yup. As a matter of fact I emailed Pyro asking for the lock.
There have been no new viewpoints and I constantly see my name being brought up. Kinda old ya know?
-Ding
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Here's a thought. Rather than have anonymous monitors appointed by the "state", why not elect them?
It works for the Sheriff's Department.
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Originally posted by Westy:
Swamprat, IMO, I think the whole situation is being made a bit too federal.
This isn't constitutional. This is a business issue.
I do not blame HTC at all for what they chose to do or what the person who used the mute did.
The MA is bad enough with some of the two week trial blithering idiots spouting off.
(edited 03-20-2001).]
..I completely agree. It's the approach I'm concerned with. The grey area is just plain wierd. And the buisness issue goes both ways really. Perhaps the moderator in this situation jumped the gun,....then maybe not. Until we have clear cut guidance, who know's what will get you muted? I've seen way worse than "dick", and I've seen terrible verbal lashing(s) that didn't even include "foul" language. I've heard of one instance of the mute being applied,...for "Dick"???
Just a point to ponder
SwampRat
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Maybe monitors should warn an offender that the text is being logged and will be sent to the HTC staff if the crap continues. HTC can email a warning to the problem child. If they don't tone down the retoric they get suspended or worse.
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Chris "Bmer1171" Toombs
332nd Flying Mongrels
"Don't fly to fight. Fight to fly."
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The simple answer to all of this is that there isn't a simple solution (other then our monitoring our own behaviour). I'm with Eagler, I thought this was about video monitors as well..lol. Well, I don't have anything to worry about. Chances are, if something does happen between myself and a monitor:
a) I probably deserved it.
b) I record about every flight I make, so at the very least there is evidence of any behaviour or abusiveness one way or the other, so paranoia isn't required. My guess is, the monitors record as well.
Kudos to HTC for addressing the 'quality' of their game. How could they not, as good business men and women, try to make AH the best environment (As they see it) for their customers?
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs (http://www.devildogs.com)
MAG-33 (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
'Criticism is always easier than craftmanship.'
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Originally posted by Bmer1171:
Maybe monitors should warn an offender that the text is being logged and will be sent to the HTC staff if the crap continues. HTC can email a warning to the problem child. If they don't tone down the retoric they get suspended or worse.
Now THAT is a good idea.
SwampRat
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(http://www.gifs.net/animate/eye.gif) (http://www.gifs.net/animate/eye.gif)
if that irritating gif doesn't kill this thread, nothing will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 03-20-2001).]
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A friendly little reminder that when people come to play games like this, some choose to directly reflect they're personality, while other choose to role play. For this reason, direct interpretation of someone's actions in a medium such as this is nothing more then a knee jerk reaction, as one cannot determine which of side of the line the person resides on.
We seem to lose sight of this sometimes.
Have a nice day.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Btw I'm a pompus jerk, ask anyone whos ever caught me not playing me role!