Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Defcon4 on December 23, 2001, 05:05:00 PM
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I have been watching the main arena slowly and irreversibly change thes past few months, maybe since due to work i dont get much play time, so when i do log on the changes are more evident than the everyday all day player.
I know many have noticed, commented and some have left due to the overwhelming influx of newbies and etc namely the number being to great for the size of maps.
I for one would like to see an arena set up for those of us who are more serious about missions and etc instead of just flying for kills and etc...ie furballing or vulch madness.
Understand, I am not complaining or whining or whatever i just, like many other i am sure, like to play the game on a mor serious sim based aspect, the kills are fun yes and the score for some yeah! but i am not play for score i am playing for fun but also for the only re-enactment aspect of 112 i can get.
CT arena is great but plane set and etc isn't much.
what i would like to see is another main ct combo arena set up, not for furballer and etc but one where radar is greatly reduce, resupply more difficult, captures more tough, and bombing mission needing more than 1 or even 3 or 4 drops, i would like to see it more realistic in a sense and not furball hell as is in main now.
I didnt join AH for furballing or gang bangs or etc i join it based on my idiotic notion of a more accurate sim based game.
Let's face it the only re-enactments or sim from ww2 is what we get on the pc and i would hope htc can see this... at some point ah will become a has been, same as any other extinc game if, in my mind, it doesn't begin to look at those of us more serious minded. :)
Hope i didn't offend anyone, i enjoy flying with and against all of you :)
Defcon4
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yes yes my brain was thinking faster than i can type excuse the typos :rolleyes:
however i hope i expressed myself clearly if not well blame it on uhmmmm hitech yes thats it it's his faul :eek:
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I for one am always for more play options. I play the MA, the CT, and would do more scenarios if my schedule allowed. More is better.
I don't know what to tell you about the current state of affairs. I like what I see, as I see more play possibilities here than ever before. The power to have what you want is available to you know- it is up to the player base as a whole to see it happen. So far it seems this is not something the bulk of the players want. The customer is fickle, however, and who knows?
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Defcon4, sign up for TOD:
http://events.hitechcreations.com/ (http://events.hitechcreations.com/)
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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One thing that may bring the arena back into line is getting a few missions up and setting the tone. It is true there has been a shift in the MA, and most of it has not been for the better. There is less organization, and a huge increase in negative actions like kill stealing and such.
I believe that a few well put together big missions to cripple the enemy will put the MA back on the right footing. Knock out the DAR/CITY etc for 2 hours or so and do it more than once, and I think the air quake crowd may get the hint. Sure there will be the typical whinefest, but in the end the strategic elements will shine through as they want to do the same to the enemy!
Ive seen a few posts and text messages with people complaining about being "ganged up on". This makes it very clear they do not understand the idea of team play. AH is not a game most people can be successful in alone. 2 marginal pilots can often take out one ace, and 3 or more almost always can.
Aces High is a TEAM GAME....with the team aspect, it gets old rather quickly
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I would really like to see more organization.
For Example today in the MA, we were taking some bases.
It would go something like this: Fghters would trickle in, bombers trickle in, and by the time a goon came it was back up again...
Now if we would just send in a few bobmers and a few fighters, the field could be demolished quickly and a goon could come in easily to take the field....
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Click your heels together three times, Dorothy. Get a squad together, this stuff can happen now. You guys make it sound as if it isn't possible.
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Originally posted by Kieran:
You guys make it sound as if it isn't possible.
Oh, but Kieran... it is impossible!
It's impossible because these guys expect HTC to create this stuff for them, it's all there, but YOU have to make the stuff happen.
This isn't something HTC makes happen, they provide us with the environment and the tools, but it's up to us to run with the ball.
This can only be as good as you want to make it be.
-SW
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I agree with you but you miss my point, I play ah not for the shootem up but more for the team play and somewhat strategic play.
like chess for example.... i'd just like to see it play with more of a realistic sense rather than the shoot em up, arcade as you called it...
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I seem to have missunderstood... It apears that you want historical reenactment but you do not like historical planesets because they are too limited.
You appear to believe that the MA gives people too much choice and that because of that people are allowed to have fun... It would appear that you would like for the MA to have choice removed so that people were forced to fly in a manner that you find enjoyable but..... Since they have that option to fly that way right now and aren't.... you want them to be forced to.
I believe that closer together fields would help both styles of play. Right now, you see everyone fighting at only a few locations... Why? It takes to long to get somewhere so you go where the crowds are.. You also go where the crowds are because if you dn't you will get gangbanged out there too far from home to save you. Closer fields would spread the fights all over the map and... make for quicker field capture and a moving front.
win win
lazs
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By gangbang people (at least me) usually mean a situation where a country has grossly higher number than the others - or even worse - two biggest countries stop fighting eachothers and concentrate on the smaller one. This makes the life of the country with smallest numbers really unbearable. This is what happens in the main all the time though.
In my timezone its always bish 2/3 of players, knits and rook the rest.. Sooner or later it happens that knits or rook decide to stop fighting bish and attack the other weak country - this is gangbang. What the two smaller countries SHOULD do is team together to conquer the bigger.. For some reason this almost never happens though. I don't understand why.
I originally started playing rook because they're always with the lowest numbers at my timezone and I wanted to balance the game.. If more people would think this way, we'd get much more fun out there for sure.
Gangbang cries are NOT because of some squaddies flying together.. It's because whole countries choose to attack the weakest in order to get a fast reset and perkies. I've played Aces High main arena for almost 6 months now and I've never seen rook win reset. Knits maybe once. This is not balance.
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Defcon what you are asking for sounds pretty much like what we are trying to do in the CT.
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Is there someone in your house with a gun to your head that says you can't fly any strat missions in the MA or get together with your squad and fly some missions together?
Originally posted by Defcon4:
I agree with you but you miss my point, I play ah not for the shootem up but more for the team play and somewhat strategic play.
like chess for example.... i'd just like to see it play with more of a realistic sense rather than the shoot em up, arcade as you called it...
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Yeah. Ever since AH turned into AW its been difficult to adjust. I remember when 70 people online was considered a great turnout.
Back then I was always pissed about something but in retrospect it was the finest online community I have ever been involved with. Look into the future and understand it cannot be accurately predicted and realize that today will be nostalgic then.
That being said: TOD, CT and special events are where the sim IS and SHOULD BE. The main arena is for jerking errr... goofing off and should not be expected to be anything more. But realistically, if your a sim fan and not a game fan you can always go to the MA, stay on top, fly smart and hopefully kill lazs from time to time.
A game maketh a sim not but a man maketh a sim can or something.
Yeager
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Originally posted by lazs1:
I believe that closer together fields would help both styles of play. Right now, you see everyone fighting at only a few locations... Why? It takes to long to get somewhere so you go where the crowds are.. You also go where the crowds are because if you dn't you will get gangbanged out there too far from home to save you. Closer fields would spread the fights all over the map and... make for quicker field capture and a moving front.
I think closer fields would only increase the overall frustration in the MA. If it takes 5 mins to reach an enemy field, how many "take off-head for closest enemy field on wep- make one pointless strafe attack against aircraft on the ground-get shot down by flak-reup from field-head for closest enemy field on wep etc"-wonders do you think we would see?
No the fields needs to be spread out further apart to make every mission more important. If you have a 20 min ride to the target, you dont blow it all in one glorious suicide run just to strafe one pony on the ground.
Why was Bigweek so much fun? Because you only had one life, and you knew that if you had to ditch or bail or whatever, you would spend the next hour watching the radio, waiting for the next frame. How many pointless suicide charges did you see?
Spread the fields further apart, or better yet, enforce a 5 minutes waiting period before a killed or captured pilot is allowed to reup.
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Defcon,
You should be flying more events. Your points are vailid, but unanswerable by HTC. It's a buisness that has to cater for the lowest common denominator (the MA), and hopefully that great mass of unwashed will throw out enough pearls of every type to be able to cater more specificaly for every type.
Just now we're seeing an MA average occupany of around 200 (at least, when I log on...), and a CT occupancy of around 10; which gives you an idea of the proportions. You're best bet is to hope the great unwashed in the MA swell to around 500, odds are that could throw out a CT occupancy of around 30-40, which is enough to make it viable. Viva la MA! Vival la CT, and all that....
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Seeker, the hours I fly (which are of course prime time US and you are probably working or sleeping then), the MA is around 250-330 people. The CT can be anywhere from 5 to 50 or even 60 people. Of course this does not benefit you, but I'm just trying to offer you another perspective.
I think that when the arena becomes more fleshed out (scoring enabled, things like that- a way to track your successes automatically), then the CT will become a popular arena too. It's just that a lot of guys fly for score, and I admit, I don't fly the CT much because I have no way to track how well/poorly I do in there. (that's just me of course)
It's still a new arena, but atleast it's getting used.
-SW
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hortlund.. if you spread the fields farther apart or even leave em the same then people will tend to clump at one or two spots on the map. Closer fields actually spreads out the numbers more evenly.
yeager.. everyone does kill me.. except you of course.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs1:
hortlund.. if you spread the fields farther apart or even leave em the same then people will tend to clump at one or two spots on the map. Closer fields actually spreads out the numbers more evenly.
Why? ..No,wait lets take this to the other thread (the "the fields really...")
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: Hortlund ]
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I haven't had a bath in weeks, so as one of the "unwashed", let me ask a question: how are you guys so sure I am not having fun? Please, tell me how YOU know so I will know when I am not having fun (even when I think I am).
I don't want anyone to save me from the MA chaos, the CT "organization", the scenario "one-life", WW mayhem, TOD campaign, squad organization and affiliation, or lone-wolfing. I like it all, and you know what? It's all available to me.
Some of you guys need to come to grips with the fact you can play just about any way you like in this game, but the one thing you really don't have any control over is what the rest of the players do. This is what is really bothering you. Stop trying to control what others do and appreciate the control you have over yourselves. ;)
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kieran... they know you are having fun... that's what pisses em off.
Their moms made the other kids play with em when they were little... They see no reason why HTC shouldn't do the same now.
lazs
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I am not questioning planeset or what ever, i am glad everyone has a good time :D
what i am saying is that maybe there needs to be a second main arena where the more serious squad activities or even individual activities are enjoyed.
yes its a buisness, i applaud htc for there great game. people fly they way they wish i have no problem with that. I like all of you have enjoyed furballs, vulch fest etc
in RL you didn't just up any where, fly anywhere etc. i'd just like to see more strategic and tactical aspecs
I have nothing against anyone but everyone knows that the AW invasion has brought with it much frustration, over crowding, etc
If this is to be arcade style game i'll still enjoy it :D
I'd just like to see main the way it was
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"I haven't had a bath in weeks, so as one of the "unwashed", let me ask a question: how are you guys so sure I am not having fun?"
That's kind of my point, Kieran; in an bellybutton backwards way....
The MA should be the most fun, for the most people, always; or at least, that's my take on it.
Out of that "most people" (aka the unwashed :) ), only a realatively small proportion would be dissatisfied/motivated enough to try something else....
At the moment, it's seems to be about 10-20%, very rarely (if ever)reaching 25% of the logged on player base.
At that rate, to get a really active CT population of, say, 50? you'd need around 300 -500 people logged on on average.
Which is something I think would be great!
So here's to overfull arena bursting at the seams, I reckon that's a better bet to get a full CT than closing the MA down at pre determined times, as has been earlier suggested. Fill that MA up! Fill it up I say!, then we'll see more posts like this thread starter, and we'll be able to say go to the CT/TOD/Snapshoot/Scenario and have a very full, and very diverse AH community.
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But then they'd have nothing to whine about. Kind of reminds me of some of the guys in AW that would whine after they died that you weren't honorable because you didn't fight them how they wanted you to fight them.
Originally posted by Kieran:
Some of you guys need to come to grips with the fact you can play just about any way you like in this game, but the one thing you really don't have any control over is what the rest of the players do. This is what is really bothering you. Stop trying to control what others do and appreciate the control you have over yourselves. ;)[/QB]
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Seeker, that is a very lucid thought. The more people that populate the MA, the more likely you are going to have a collection of people that want to hop off the hamster wheel.
Me, the wheel fits my lifestyle. Many others may not find it so, and the CT is the perfect outlet. We all get along fine then. :D
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Here's a thought:
What about adding a 4th country? When The Damned moved over from AW last April, we we're initially Bishops. Due to constant Knight bashing, we moved there where we remain today. It's rare when the Knights ever hold superior #'w in the MA...and even rarer to claim a reset...aint whining here folks, just stating the fact as I see it. Perhaps a 4th country would alleviate the 2 v 1 mindset.
DmdMax
The Damned MkX
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You're right, of course. We'd then have a 3 vs. 1! :D
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DMax, HT and Pyro have tried just about every configuration there is between AH, WB, and AW. 3 is the best it gets, trust them on this.
Defcon, seems what you are looking for exists in the CT. Fly there. Try hopping into the main first and grabbing a few others to go jump in the CT with you. I bet you'll enjoy it.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack:
But then they'd have nothing to whine about. Kind of reminds me of some of the guys in AW that would whine after they died that you weren't honorable because you didn't fight them how they wanted you to fight them.
The MA is now a complex place with land, air and sea forces. War is difficult to conduct in real life with disciplined people and a proper chain of command. Without such a thing, the MA is bound to be chaos most of the time with short periods of organised conduct showing up from time to time in various places. (Thinks, Firebirds Sunday night Tiffie raids and other missions.)But many peeps do indeed think of it as Airborne Quake,(as they are entitled to do 'cos they are paying) so those who are looking for a structured wargame-come-simulation will usually be dissappointed.
Serious people can get their kicks in TOD and Scenarios but the simulation of any military operation takes almost as much time and effort as the real thing.
IMHO the MA does a pretty good job of pleasing most of the people at least some of the time. It would be good if there was somewhere the serious squads could post notice of their plans and timings on the BBS so those interested could turn up and join in. For example, at least two Brit squadrons (Firebirds and Kraits) have their official Sunday squadnights at 2030Z or 2030BST and usually post missions that anyone can join. So thats when you might find a temporary period of order emerging in one corner of the MA.If such things could be more widely publicised, even more people would be happier more often. Any ideas?
[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Tjay ]
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When I play (which, I have to admit, is not very often, I get no time any more), I like to look for a base that is under attack by someone planning a mission, and I like to get in a fighter, usually a Spit, and attack the squad that is trying to take the field. Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? Am I making the game more fun, less fun, or neither, by doing so? Or, should it matter at all to the players planning the mission where the defense is coming from, or what their state of mind is? DO I have to be aligned with other players for you to have fun?
Just asking,
Mosca
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IMO the turnout has been awesome!
I love seing 300+ people in the arena.
need organization ?
join a squad,
start a mission,
get people interested.