Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on September 26, 2002, 06:50:37 AM
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Stuck with WB2.77 till the bitter end, till the RPS (idiotic nature of) drove me away. Had enormous difficulty getting WB3 to run. They kept introducing new versions (95MB+ download), and I was unable to download because of the 2-hour connect time restriction on my ISP. I got various friends to download for me onto a CD, but just as I'd got things to work reasonably, another new version popped up, and my version was useless.
Then they went through the eyesight test phase, also known as Dotbirds. No icons at all. Baaah! Forget that.
Crap graphics, dots for aircraft that made one indistinguishable from another, crap connections, ad hoc changes, higher price, empty arenas, porked flight models, calamari & two veg and bleedin’ Watney’s Red Barrel – I’m starting to sound like Eric Idle in a certain Monty Python sketch, so long is the list...
So over to you – what made you leave WB3 and come here? Would you ever go back?
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I could never really put my finger on what is is about WBs3 that put me off it,a number of things for me I guess,my main interest in it was for making my own skins online,then that was taken away,graphics are nice,but fancy graphics alone doesnt make a good sim,Id rather have playability over fancy eye candy anyday.
Price certainly made me pack it in,for a 'sim' that has no strat,the promised online skins,awful flight model,and for me,having to centre my joystick all the time on flight drove me nuts,from time to time I look in to see if anythings improved,they can introduce all the 3d cockpits they want,etc,but the problems remain.AH rules.:)
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Dotbirds and the control delays we reasons for me. I never have a lot of time to fly, even in ah. When I flew there was only 20 to 30 people in the main their (before the ww2a). I would pop in say hey wheres the fight and get guys saying we have gvs ib to xxx.
The control delays would be at the top for me, not being a pilot I have read plenty that real pilots have to say about this issue and I dont see how it can be sold as "real".
If one were to read agw you would that the folks there complain about every plane over there. From the porked zekes and corsairs, to the uber 109f and 190s and everything in between.
I like alot of folks watch whats going on but I dont feel its worth 24 a month to fly planes with artifical delays modelled into the controls or to fly planes that just about every there claims are model incorrectly.
I had np getting the game to run well and my first flights in the d9 there I went 12 and 0.
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Another reason can be seen in this (http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11019) thread where iEN employee's admit 'Groundhogday' Stealey has them working on other projects until the new year. Warbirds development was slow anyway but this is a joke. 'Groundhogday' Stealey almost killed Warbirds the last time he was in control, perhaps he can finish it off this time. For all Hotseat's sniping at Hitech's code compare the two sims and see which one has the most features, inovations every release and not just one or two planes released with suspect FM's (ie the P39 that had an FM like the space shuttle in the last release)
Squad's are the thing that has kept most players in Warbirds but iEN has twice now completely screwed the whole system up, their latest squad pages faled to work for most and someone pointed out a glaring hole in the security of the site whereby he could have logged in and changed everyone's squad motto and then locked iEN out of their own DB! and they still don't have ingame join facility.
P.S Alan please send me a mail I've lost your contact details when I formatted my system.
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Tried it once during their free trials and didn't like the mush FM, the graphics while nice are too vivid and would fit much better in a space or robot game than a WW2 sim.
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As i decided to move away from Fighter Ace 3.0 recently i did tes WB3 as an alternative but didnt like it. Graphic screwed up for me and i did not like the flight model. I do also agree that graphic is not all as i actually left FA3.0, which has the best graphic available for these type of sims. There is a lot of things i like with AH but one of the things a lot of people told me that the flight models are so different between AH and FA. The major difference is the screwed up acceleration in Intermediate FA, except that it is actually not that different to AH. Advanced FA is harder and according to pilot friend of mine more accurate.
Despite that AH has a much better overall architecture, features and functions as well as the community is great. That means a lot to me and i will continue here.
Cheers
Zipper9
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The primary reason is that our squad voted to come to Aces High.
Our primary reason was the price hike from $9.95 to $24.95 to play in an arena that had 50 players in it at most. I did not play in the Full Realism main arena in WB. Figured if I was going to do that, then go Aces High for $10.00 less per month.
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for me it was the lack of service. I tried many many times to get account help and found myself getting more and more frustrated.. finally I migrated. best thing I've ever done with regards to flight sims.
oh.. and the flat rate :)
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Even though I was paying 25 dollars a month and not flying hardly at all I stuck it out for a long time. The last straw for me was two things. That stupid A.S.S game and I couldnt change my credit card information online at the account maintence site. I lost my debit card one day so I cancelled it and when I went to change my info with IEN that part of the site was unavilable. I was so pissed off and just sick of Wild Dill and they way things were run over there I opened my Aces High account the next day. I've been having a great time too, the last few months have been like my early days in WBs.
I highly doubt I'll ever go back to WBs, it has become a joke trying to compete with WWIIONLINE and the BF1942 crowd. It would take me a month to list everything wrong with that "sim" so I'm not even going to try. Even though I dont play it anymore, I still get pissed when I think about how bad that game has been screwed up the last couple of years. Now I hear there that the staff has to work on WBs in there free time so that bonehead Wild Bill can get Warbirds Korea out the door :rolleyes: Another nail in the coffen.
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a lot of ex WB'ers feel the same way.
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I wasn't super happy with Warbirds at $9.95 and no way in hell was I gonna pay more for the same thing. This led me to try AH, and once I got over the initial hurdles that make moving from Warbirds to AH difficult - I would not even go back if WB3 was free.
(In fact they did send me an email with a free trial while ago - I popped in flew a single 190 killed somebody then landed and logged. Never went back again, even though it was free).
The game ran fine for me, in hardware terms. (I did very much hate RPS with all my heart, so WB 2.77 was out of the question as an alternative as well.)
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WB3 ran fine for me. BUt not many peeps online. Boring
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The onlt thing that kept me in WB 2.xx were the great squad mission with the 332nd Flying Mongrels. After AH went public Beta I flew AH and nothing (except for the above mentioned squad missions) but AH from the first day and forward.
Changed to AH from WB together with many of 332nd Flying Mongrels some two weeks or so after AH went pay-for-play.
The control delays would be at the top for me, not being a pilot I have read plenty that real pilots have to say about this issue and I dont see how it can be sold as "real".
I am a real life pilot, flying gliders, and I can say with 100% certainty that the WB control delay is as unrealistic as anything gets.
Something else that surprises me with IEN is (except for name change to "totalsims") that they keep anouncing all these new games. First it was WB3, then quite recently it was DoA3, I got very happy as I loved DoA. However, now they've put up ANOTHER 3 games on their webpage.
Armored Aussult, Air Combat and Tank attack.
Air Combat is basicly WB 3 with another name (my guess). Tank Attack same, armored aussult same... they've allso anounced a Korean and a Vietnam game.
Sooo, why do they start creating 5 new games when they haven't even finnished WB3 or DoA?
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Originally posted by Wlfgng
for me it was the lack of service. I tried many many times to get account help and found myself getting more and more frustrated.. finally I migrated. best thing I've ever done with regards to flight sims.
oh.. and the flat rate :)
Ditto that.
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My reason was the price change from 9.95 to 24.95 flat when the beta phase ended the SECOND time.
Now that I'm here I might add what I like about Aces High
- better looking graphics (except when seeing planes from less than d30...)
- more players online, therefore even some players flying worse than me :)
- no 90% cloud layer at 8k. flying at 30k was a whole new experience, hunting buffs at 20k is fun.
Things I actually did like when flying wb3:
- RPS, 109e vs. spit and hurri was real big fun, for one in three weeks
- The No-Icons time in the historical arean was fun.
- people. most respond when sending text to them on the radio. organized missions were flown - neither using a mission editor nor beeing a squad. players were complaining about the lack of a mission editor, but when players decided to fly together flying over there usually was a lot more disciplined.
- not overmodeled rocket damage. first thing i did when i came here was taking a p38 up with rockets. first rocket fired killed an m16 from 1.4k - aimed the same way i did in wb3. now that i learned that rocket hits don't need to be as precise as over there i lost that skill of hitting so close.
- a single player could archive something over there for his country. with a 109f or later i could strafe all ack, hangar and dar at small fields to close it in a single sortie.
- almost no vulching. before a field could be captured it had to be closed - no one upping, no one vulched.
- event schedule over there is much more easy to read. more events at euro friendly times than here (i think, but may be wrong). almost all working on walk on basis. here i haven't flown any other events than a few WW (at 5 a.m.), the one time i logged into the special events arena filled with 10 or 20 players it was bob training, one or two of them insiting that i may not join them during training because i did not sign up for bob. wb is better in creating a feeling of beeing accepted.
- rook-e, who happened to be online every evening i was, but unfortunately uses a mac.
Something about wb's muchiness: It's not that bad, just implemented wrong. The speed the control surfaces can be moved is not limited by the position of the control surface = the stick the virtual pilot is using but limited by the position the players joystick is at. therfore centering can take longer when the stick is immediately deflected to the opposite direction. hotseat wrote this would be a result of the PIO [=APC] limiter, which is part of the model of true fly by wire systems used in wb3. at least that's how i remember it. where there's APC in a PC simulation hasn't been explained ever since.
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FWIW true fly-by-wire systems don't artifically slow the whole time it takes for a flight surface to move but instead moderates the extremes so that a pilot doesn't over correct.
The artifically slow response is too unrealistic IMO.
Also these are prop driven, ultra small fighter aircraft.. pretty damned nimble and responsive.
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WW2 planes didn't have fly-by-wire systems. They wanted fast rolls and fast responses. Even the 190 wasn't fast enough for the pilot not to follow.
Modern jets today can roll much much faster, thus fly-by-wire might be needed.
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Sheesh. Make up your mind. You post over there that AH sucks and post here that WBs sucks. You do realize a lot of people read both boards right?
bowser
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Beet1e is an equal oppurtunities whiner he allows both sides the chance to snipe at the 'other' sim :D
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When are people over there going to realize that WB is not Wild Bills priority? Bingo is what makes them money, and it seems Bill is trying to get as many titles on the shelves for a quick sale as he can before anything is finished. It seems WB has been shelved. I just think it's funny how much people over there still have hope.
Everyone who has come over here has said it's "like the good ol' days"
I also think a lot of people's complaints about AH over there, may have been caused by bad experiences during H2H. H2H is basically set up as a trial deal, except the host can dicker with the settings as much as they like. I would say that 80% of H2H rooms are ran by childish people, and I hope people aren't judging aces high by the crowd that hangs out there. Lazer gunnery happens all the time in H2H, with planegunlethality settings set way high.
My $.02
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Loved WBs and flew it from beta, 5 years pent there. Then HT started AH. Still kept my WB account open because i was waiting to see WB3. Eye candy and no FM changes made me drop my account. IEN did what IEN wants, not what the people supporting the game wanted.
I musta ditched out about 250 to 300 a month for WBs till it went flat rate. And i had a damn good time. But for me WB3 sunk the product, now its just to late and doubtful i will ever go back.
Dog out........... WBs handle was --wd--
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Everyone who has come over here has said it's "like the good ol' days"
IT IS..
I was scared to death that the passion I had for flight sims had died out.
I just wasn't having fun anymore.
Flight sims have been my passion since the Amiga days, and it just didn't do it for me anymore..
The passion didn't die out, the game did.
This game here IS "the old days" The fun, the sillyness, the laughs that WB was a loooooong time ago.
I can't tell you how great it was to break away and finally realize that IT WASN'T ME :D
it was the game :)
I still lay out 9.95 a month, no current game on the hard drive. I'm starting to wonder why.
I'm not going anywhere.
Why would I leave the "good old days"
It's fun :)
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I left warbirds right after sept 11th when hotseat came out with his opinion that America brought that tragedy on itself.
I told him what a squealing da I think he is and left the game.
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Originally posted by Kanth
I left warbirds right after sept 11th when hotseat came out with his opinion that America brought that tragedy on itself.
I told him what a squealing da I think he is and left the game.
No fuggin kidding? Would you save us the diggin and post THAT link?
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Nice Troll
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I hate to see people lose jobs, but if someday warbirds ceases to exist, I look forward to seeing all the old vets here, if they can deal with the harsh learning curve.
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What's WB3 anyway? ;)
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WB3 is WarBirds III - newer version of another online flight sim. It clearly beats AH in every aspect - flight and damage models, gunnery, graphics, clouds, number of planes and skill of the players. Hotseat does truly great job making best online simulator.
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That was the sound of your line snapping. Yer drag was set way to tight and yer bait stinks, even for catfish.
Originally posted by sshh
WB3 is WarBirds III - newer version of another online flight sim. It clearly beats AH in every aspect - flight and damage models, gunnery, graphics, clouds, number of planes and skill of the players. Hotseat does truly great job making best online simulator.
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sshh: Are you a standup comedian? Man that was a good one. :)
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Sure made me laugh:D
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I dont get it? have we not all given up on WB? isnt why we ALL are here??? (except the ex AWers and FAers).
Silly post indeed...
:rolleyes:
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Maniac.
The issue was not whether we had all given up on WB3, but why we have given up on WB3.
Now who looks silly? Still, I remember you from WB. You were quite good. :)
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Oh, sorry then :D
I´m still nr-1 :cool:
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There must be something wrong with my memory. Were there numberical characters allowed in WB callsignes?
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I've given WB3 a fair shake, and finally gave up in frustration. I was a loyal WB-er from version 2.0 up to very recently.
Nails in the coffin?
I'm on dial-up, too many 50MB+ downloads every week, always playin version catch up.
STILL no complete planeset from 2.77 planeset.
Warping and lost packets in WB3, AH connection far less twitchy.
Squad pages and signup continue to be fubared.
WB crew spending less and less time on WB itself, to much ASS, Korea, Tankbirds, etc. WB3 will never be a finshed product I feel.
The last decent gunnery model (gameplay-wise, I don't care how much "science" hotseat says he puts in, if the gameplay doesn't reflect what "realism" then the model is broken) was back in ver 2.6 WB still has P51's that soak up 30mm's, glass-tailed mossies, impotent .303's that can't scratch paint, etc.
FM's have long drifted away from distinct differences between planes, now homogenized to remove the historical personality that made the planes famous.
And the kicker, a development team castrated by the whims of upper management that can not support their product or their community.
I'll be reactivating my AH account, thank you very much.
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Gargoyle, soon as YT,Daddy, and a few others come over, we'll have to have a reunion in Seattle ;)
(Edit: Its not a matter of "if", but "When" they come over..:D)
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Yeah, looking forward to descending on the local IHOP for a LAN party :D
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"...The issue was not whether we had all given up on WB3, but why we have given up on WB3. ...".
Hmmmm. Better check the thread title again silly.
bowser
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Bowser - I can't be bothered to waste my time with your kind. Read ALL of my post, not just the title, and then piss off.
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You don't REALLY expect people to read completely through your babblin' drivel do you? Put what you want people to read in your first sentence. They might make it that far.
bowser
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Bowser. My last message to you was two sentences, and you clearly read both. Not only that, but all the other people who posted actually did read my entire message, and posted lucid replies. So that's your theory blown away on both counts.
Bowser, I'm sure your mother loves you, but to me you are a tedious little salamander. Now be gone with you. :mad:
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"...Bowser - I can't be bothered to waste my time with your kind. ...".
Well you continue to "waste" your time, so apparently you CAN be bothered. Oh. I forgot. We're supposed to ignore certain parts of what you write. You know...like the title.
Maybe you can just bold the parts we are supposed to read?
bowser
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Bowser. No need. I've got all the information I requested. And it was a useful thread.
But as you asked me so nicely, here goes: Piss off.
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Wow. That was a fast reply. Surprising since your time is so valuable and you hate to waste a valuable second of it. Shouldn't you be off solving world hunger or something?
Your last reply was clearly rushed and not well thought out. Please feel welcome to take your time on your next reply since I'll be out for the rest of the day. Yes, yes, right.....we all know how you hate to waste your time, you're not going to reply, blah, blah,blah, bla......
Talk to you later.
bowser
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soon as YT,Daddy, and a few others come over
Rip they're about ;)
Just not on the boards. Daddy looks to be just about up to speed :)
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LOL Bowser!
On second thoughts, you're funny. Don't go. I think the board is better for having you here. :)
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I only stayed in WB as long as I did because of the S3 games. The Special Events, SL's and EMCs were OK, but not a patch on the S3's... Which isn't to say the S3's were always perfect, there was the occasional experimental one that went horribly wrong, but the immersion levels the Janitors (S3 team) managed by good game design using a product like WB2 was incredible.
WB3 was simply dire when first put on public release. It quite simply wasn't enjoyable, and I stayed up until the "test S3" that the Janitors ran to see how well a real one might go. Those owning WBs have quite simply had some very strange ideas about what makes a good WW2 online combat flight sim. It isn't bazillions of polygons in possibly technically brilliant ultra-detailed 3D models, it's great gameplay and adequate graphics. That brings in lots of players, so long a the price isn't exorbitant.
AH graphics may be a tad old hat compared to the likes of say, IL2, BUT - IL2 isn't MMOL, and the graphics are "of a piece", that is to say, they don't jar, and unlike WB3 when last I saw it, they do lull one into suspending disbelief and thus allowing one to get immersed into the game instead of thinking "that looks OK but that doesn't" all the time. I don't understand folks claiming AH has a steeper learning curve than WB, as the FMs seem similar (certainly similar in difficulty) to those in WB2.7. The only thing I've found significantly harder in AH is carrier landings.
For my money, HTC has been doing right nearly all the things that the owners of WB have been doing wrong for so long. Long may HTC continue to keep up the good work! The only downside to AH for me has been that the "serious" side of the community isn't quite up to S3 levels yet, but I'm sure it'll get there before long. There's some good folks and some good units out there, and the CMs doing their best to put on enjoyable games for as many as possible. Not forgetting the many people that work on terrains for the rest of us to play in.
By the by, WB3 development has started to look mildly interesting, from what I've heard about it. And I'm not entirely happy with the AH experience, either. But it's still the best MMOL WW2 combat flight sim about at the moment IMO, and if you like flying bombers, the new bombsight system is a breath of fresh air compared to the silly laser-bombing that went before in most games. It used to be that WB was the game that other developers had to try to beat. Now, methinks it's AH that sets the standards, at least insofar as the actual software of MMOL WW2 combat flight sims goes.
Esme
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last time i played wb was about the same time aces high beta came out :)
was citabr in wb
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turbot I can't get anything from the month of september fro 2001 but I can get oct 2001 and show you a thread that spawned in part from that.
a bunch of people still trying to work it out well into the next month.
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2346
if I could get to the posts from september, I'd show ya what I'm talking about.
[edit] hang on I see the radio button for "and older" gonna try that =)[/edit]
{edit number deux, nope it won't let me pull it up sorry that is why I left, I cancelled the day after I saw that after I replied to him}
Originally posted by Turbot
No fuggin kidding? Would you save us the diggin and post THAT link?
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I remember that post.
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Esme!
It isn't bazillions of polygons in possibly technically brilliant ultra-detailed 3D models, it's great gameplay and adequate graphics.
How true. I always wondered why WB3 went to so much trouble with all those "skins". I had to ask someone why they did that, because most of the time the planes are just like little dots. You had to close to about 100 yards to appreciate any artwork.
Esme, I'm surprised you're finding carrier landings harder in AH. I do 'em just as I did in WB in the F4U. Full flap, 140mph. The difference, in AH, is the presence of the tail hook. Silly question, but you did know about the tail hook, didn't you? (Shift+G)