Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Am0n on December 27, 2001, 08:14:00 AM
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Last night i had the dumbest fight ever. When i was done i felt like my IQ had dropped 10 points. :p
Im flying at 35k, was eating a bowl of cereal and planning on raising hell hi in the sky.
i see this UFO @ 11oclock, higher than me. im thinking "WTF?" this must be a 262 or 152 to be this high. Nope it was a enemy b17 over 35k. after getting closer i find hes only maybe 2k above me, buy then i had a slight climb and was co-alt. I worked on getting out in front of him for 10-15 minutes. He of course was out flying me from his gun position. :confused:
He scisored me like a spit fire @ 5k.. i stalled even though i was over 200mph and slightly turning. i everntaly get back to co-alt and he litteraly flies circles around me, thats no joke. now this is probably 20 minutes in to the persuit. The bastage is firing away from 2k out, pinging like mad. My pilot gets wounded and i die 2 minutes later.. :o
Seems like bullet proof glass isnt so bullet proof. i couldnt emagine a 50 cal round flying well over a mile and going through bullet proof glass or a jugs "armor" (or lack of in AH), even more so i couldnt emagine a b17 out flying a p47 at 30+k.. thats insane.
Tell me im not the first person this has happened to? i really would hope not. Why is the jug such a slug at 35k??? going over 200 mph is not a option up there..
Sorry for the rant, this just really got me angry.
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Yeah I've noticed the same.. Jug is supposed to excell at those altitudes but it's actually outflown by every spit, n1k or B17 that bothers to go up there.
I recently fought a B17 at around 32k and just couldn't outclimb him with full WEP.
He even turned into me, trying to attack me HO which I barely evaded by diving under his belly. By the time I managed to turn around he was already 4.5k away.
I already was starting to lose my patience / hope when he started running out of fuel, dove and ripped his wings off. I then pursued him enough to leave my 'pissmark' of a couple pings to his B17 and left with my victory :)
If he wouldn't kill himself, there was no way in H*ll I would have made it back.
I have it on film even, watch out its a long one :)
Long long but rewarding chase (http://users.kymp.net/cable130/film19.ahf)
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: Mr RiplEy ]
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Welcome to the club :D
Am0n, you should really be aware of poor buff flyers. Nobody would really fly them unless that minimal gameplay concessions are set. You have to realize that being such a necessary asset to AH, it must be made interesting so any no-skill AH wannabe has a chance to make kills at no risk. Everyone knows that people come to AH for his gameplay, none of us like relistic modelling. Why ask for an escort? Everyone knows too that this is an impossible task in MA. What the heck, we better get rid of that.
Realistic behaviour, close to reality models, careful aerodinamyc effects, gun effectiveness, bombsite, etc., etc., etc., etc (ad nauseam), are nuisances that buff jocks can joyfully forget, at the expense of fighters.
Dang, every one not totally green in here knows that Buff pilots are most endangered spice, and any effort is for good if someone decides to fly it, no matter if that's at 35k+ alt. Get off your dweeb machines, Ta152, P47, P38, G-10 Pilots!
Come fly the fun machines. Forget bombsight, forget level flight, forget planning any route eithere ingressing or eggressing, forget looking at the map, forget bringing more than a single buff to have a chance to make any damage, forget historic (or realistic) alts.....welcome to last generation bomb computers, laser target designation, fire-and-forget missiles, jinking your way in, your way out, your way around, warm in your bulletproof battleship flying no less than 30k, kill those dweebs in their fighters over 1.2k with your perfectly coordinated fire system, don't bother in telling any of your gunner comrades where the enemy is, AI will do for you, don't bother in telling the pilot to turn, you can jink yourself, don't bother in ruining your flight path, your bombsight calibration, AI will insta-recalibrate it for you, so you can so realistically pinpoint that pesky ack from your non-freezing 35k perch......ah! the risky, brave, skillfull, strategical buff pilot. Hooray to them. We, the rest of AH players would not thank them enough to have such a satisfying experience of trying to intercept such a vulnerable target. Poor whiners! Anyway, it's only their fuel and ack what is being blown out by such a coordinated, difficult, well planned, well executed airforce of a single buff. Dang! there is alway the archetypical never-satisfied-type of guy in every game.
Am0n, let me leave you with a cheerful gift in these Xmas time. It's an advise: QUIT YOUR WHINEING. It's obvious any point against current buff model falls inside this cathegory. Exactly with the same precission like they hit acks from 35k. ;)
Signed: Lazs ;)
Note: This is a pre-1.09 buff model whine, and a serious attempt to break Rude's truce.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Anyone who has played long here knows you don't chase a buff at that alt. Once they are above 25K it is a 50/50 who shoots down whom, and the higher you go, the better the odds for the buff.
Your compensation, Pepe, is that it took 45 minutes for that guy to get there, and the damage he did can be undone in minutes. If that joker wants to climb up there in a photo recon B17, let him. That is one less fighter vultching your field. Besides, if you pester him too much he may drop a stitch. ;)
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Rgr that MrRipley, i got this on film to, its VERY long. I had 2 DTs and 100% fuel, i shoulda just hung back @ 3k behind and waited for him to get low on fuel, i know he burned a LOT of fuel to get up there.
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Pepe how was this a whine? because i said somehting negative about a explioting b17 pilots? Its not his fault its modeled that way.
I dont want to here the "poor buff pilot" crap, if you cant kill someone 1 on 1 in a buff you need to delete the game and cancle your account. Nearly every night just for fun i fly a b26 w/ no bombs to a furball and get 5-6 kills. Hell just last night i had 7 cons chasing me over there base, i killed 4 of them.
This rant wasnt so much about the overmodeled hi buff, but the undermodeled hi jug. 2k out pilot wound?
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Kieran i knew the wrath of a UFO b17, my biggest problem was how poorly the jug handled up there, i mean it was a hi alt fighter. My other 35k buff expeirnce i was in a f4u-1.. we wont even talk about that one :)
*"yea i'll just hit auto level here and gain some speed"... **stalls and falls uncontrolably for 10k..** :D
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We had the same problem in AW.Above 30k,a 17 would outturn anything(full flaps,less than 100 knots indicated).
I have a film of of me,in an ungunned buff,parked on a Spit's six typing"Ratatatatatatatat" on ch 1,lol. :cool:
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Am0n,
mine was an ironic post. I was actually shot down in a Ta152 after being outmanouvered for some 40 minutes, by a 38k flying B17. I made a 2-8 pass over 400 kts. TAS, and shot down by a single burst starting over 1k away of the buff.
The whine thingy was put because of the people that, on seing this kind of posts, will say you are a whiner and all these things happen because you do not know how to properly set an attack.
Buff modelling is ridiculous, to put it mildly. I do not know for the rest but for me is the most important single issue that detracts fun from this great game.
We are on the same side on this issue :)
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Learn how to attack buffs, whiners. Especially you, Pepe.
SOB
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Ahh excuse me then Pepe :)
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Hey SOB i know how to attack buffs, why do you think i spent 20 minutes trying to get out in front of him? I woulda broke off and looked for other fights but buy the time i realized it was a lost cause we were in the middle of no where and it was my last flight for the night.
Not much you can do about a 2k luck shots. lucky bastage, i didnt even get a shot off. :)
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LOL Sox that had to be halarious!
WTF was a spit doing up at 30k???
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Hehehe 1 time I was chased by a Zeke at 31K. I couldn't outclimb him in a P47. Everytime I tried, he was closing too dangerously. At least I could run stright and level and go home :D
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SOB, ill get my b17 to 32k and ill let you show me how you can shoot me down. Im mighty curious how your fighter will "set up" an attack when I can literally turn on a dime and give you my 6 ALL the time while firing d1.7 turbolaser fire.
Long live the Empire!
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
Hehehe 1 time I was chased by a Zeke at 31K. I couldn't outclimb him in a P47. Everytime I tried, he was closing too dangerously. At least I could run stright and level and go home :D
Hey frenchy :)
That had to be a good laugh, a zeke shouldnt be above 20k, let alone 30! lol
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Tac i gotta see that!!
I knew i was doing somehting wrong.. :)
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
Hehehe 1 time I was chased by a Zeke at 31K. I couldn't outclimb him in a P47. Everytime I tried, he was closing too dangerously. At least I could run stright and level and go home :D
I have never seen you at that alt :) Were you sick that day?
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I dont know but I think often people approach a high alt anti buff attack wrong.
First off you need to up in advance as they did in reality and get real friggen high... yea... maybe 35k,LOL. I'd say you'd better take a good high alt fighter and I mean one designed for operations in that thin air ie a TA-152,p47d30,51, or a 38 perhaps. Then I'd say due to the thinness of the air one has to sort of "spread" out thier meanuvers. You cant turn as hard. If you have some alt on the buff get fast bellybutton poop and hose his wing loop over fast as crap and do it again maybe?
I do know that if you climb to a buff thats real high your hosed... you'll never catch him as he's fast and even faster that high. While you trying to keep up with him AND climb to him...
Just some thoughts.
xBAT
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B-17s have turbosuperchargers and can fly at high altitude with a full load of fuel and bombs. A B-17 carrying a light load should be pretty agile at high altitude. It sounds like perhaps this is what you encountered.
Hooligan
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Originally posted by Tac:
SOB, ill get my b17 to 32k and ill let you show me how you can shoot me down. Im mighty curious how your fighter will "set up" an attack when I can literally turn on a dime and give you my 6 ALL the time while firing d1.7 turbolaser fire.
Long live the Empire!
LOL...read the thread, realize that I was replying in jest to Pepe, then smile. :)
All the same, I now feel obligated to tell you how to properly set up an attack on a 30k+ buff in some easy to follow steps.
Step 1. Don't.
SOB
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You could be right Hooligan, but i think he was loaded because his directional heading was one of my bases. The guy literaly flew circles around me.. :)
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XBat i was flying the d-30, full wep when available. I normaly dont engage buffs unless im in the ALT superior position. But like i said earlier, i was ending my flights for the night and wanted to take a stab at it.
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B-17s have turbosuperchargers and can fly at high altitude with a full load of fuel and bombs. A B-17 carrying a light load should be pretty agile at high altitude
This may be true, but tell me about the gunners sitting in an unpressurized cabin with temperatures well below zero. How's his fingers? Is the deck slick with frost or ice?
The machine could do it, but could the gunners?
F.
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If you must kill that buff, here's how. You know he wants the base, right? Forget about chasing him, that is his game. Take the time to get above it, at least 2K. Yes, that's tough at that alt, but you need to have some alt in the bank. Position yourself so that he must pass under you to get back to his target. If you time it right you will catch him on the bomb run, so you will get a few seconds to split-S and take something vital away. Even striking an engine will help, forcing him to drop some alt and/or slow down. This has to be done carefully, but if you are lucky you either kill him outright or wound him enough to lower him to attainable alts. Once the fight is below 30K you are in a much better position to fight as you would like.
Be warned, a good buff pilot will eat you alive at 35K+.
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Originally posted by -ammo-:
I have never seen you at that alt :) Were you sick that day?
LOL, good one :p I think the Zeke was already up there, you know how I get waco when I see a turnfighter above 15K.
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"All the same, I now feel obligated to tell you how to properly set up an attack on a 30k+ buff in some easy to follow steps.
Step 1. Don't"
Lol, exactly :)
I usually just take a 38 or a 109g10 with 30mm.. sometimes even a CHOG (for the sake of cannon spraying) and do a ramming banzai attack with all guns blazing.
It mustve taken that buff about an hour to get that high, I get there in 15 minutes and kamikaze his bellybutton down.
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109G10 with 30mm and pods is the one for the job.
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I can't remember being 30k since I lets aw3
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I don't claim to be the best at this game. Hell I may infact be the worst. But as someone who gets a 17 up that high, while I write code on my other comp, there is some easy things to ruin a high buff pilots day. You see a 17 coming in at 35K. This is what you should do.
1. Land your plane
2. Get a C47 up off from the next field over
3. Repair your field in 5 min what took the buff pilot an hour to destroy and earn 4 times the number of perkies.
That is my 2 cents
AKRush
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Originally posted by Am0n:
LOL Sox that had to be halarious!
WTF was a spit doing up at 30k???[/QB]
I almost exclusively flew fighters.Mostly the 38,51,and FW.
In AW however,there were Chimpfire plants,and if you bombed them,no Spits for 30 minutes.So on a busy night(just to annoy the Spit pilots)I'd go up to 38k,drop two notches flaps and landing gear so I wouldn't stall at 80 Knots indicated(nice tight drop),and dump all 12 eggs on the Spit plant.
The Spit pilot in question was already up,and seemed to be annoyed at me...lol. :eek:
I was rtb,but he seemed to be obsessed. :D
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Originally posted by Sox62:
In AW however,there were Chimpfire plants,and if you bombed them,no Spits for 30 minutes.
How come we don't have this feature???? N1K plants, La7 plants and Yak Plants!!!
Cept they should go down for 24 hours
Zygote
:D
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Originally posted by RUSH:
1. Land your plane
2. Get a C47 up off from the next field over
3. Repair your field in 5 min what took the buff pilot an hour to destroy and earn 4 times the number of perkies.
That is my 2 cents
AKRush
LOL.. great idea.
Been on the recieving end of that one. I upped a lanc once while i was eating dinner, came back at 26k, which is damn high for a Lancaster those who dont know. Any how, i level the FH's at a base and buy the time i make my last pass they were already up again.. lol :eek:
*added at edit*
Just wanted to point out i think its like this because HTC wants to promote bombers for strat targets and leave the percison hanger bombing for the dive bombers, which IMO is how it should be.
[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
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Been on the recieving end of that one. I upped a lanc once while i was eating dinner, came back at 26k, which is damn high for a Lancaster those who dont know.
...hehehe...
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One bomber guy is eating dinner and the other is writing code on another computer while their bomber is flying towards it's target. Then they cry about all the hard work and time it took for such little reward. Hilarious.
bowser
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Huh, didnt think i was crying.. more like laughing.
BTW, tell me what you think the real bomber pilots/crew done on there 10 hour flights? Do you think the tail gunner sat there glaring down his aim point for the entire time? i would hope not.. well you may, i mean you did just make a real stupid post.. so who knows.
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Hmmmmm, the info I have says that IRL the B17 maxed at 32k and the P51 at 41K....?
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Buncha girlscouts!
Grab a pony and kill the buff...it's simple.
Sheesh...good thing I took the week off.
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Nope. It could go higher, but didn't usually. In AH we get engines that run at max efficiency regardless of alt. No engine failures or temperamental superchargers here.
This is an old discussion, so don't take offense at some of the replies you get.
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Originally posted by Rude:
Buncha girlscouts!
Grab a pony and kill the buff...it's simple.
Sheesh...good thing I took the week off.
Pony schmony.. :)
Real men drive jugs. :cool:
When i here the term pony, i think of "my little pony", the girly toy..
The term "Jug(s)" brings to mind big plump, nice set of.. well you know what im thinking.. doh nevermind you drive the pony. :D
[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
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Originally posted by Am0n:
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LOL Sox that had to be halarious!
WTF was a spit doing up at 30k???[/QB]
Err, check which aircraft has the best ROC at 25 and 30k. Hint: it isn't the Bf109 G-10.
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The jug in emergency power. And the 38 biting its heels :)
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Why cant the learning curve of fighters be applied to buffs?
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35K?
Did i read that right?? 35 fediddlein k UP?
Wot in hell u bozo's doin up there?
Fights down here. :D
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/shots/players/sancho5.jpg)
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I submit that screenshot is a phony, or at least someone else's. Witness:
1.) It ain't a pony.
2.) It is shooting a Bishop.
As it is known that Hang only plays with the pony his parents gave him when he was a little girl, and since we know he trades beauty secrets with all the other dress-wearing Bishops, I conclude this is not really Hangtime's screenshot. :D
P.S. About the only believable part of the post is the pilot (whoever it may be) is going after a 109.
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It's Sanhco, and it's an AH Screenshot, lifted right off the screenshot page. :)
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Originally posted by Tac:
The jug in emergency power. And the 38 biting its heels :)
You may be right. Where can I find that info? www.netaces.org (http://www.netaces.org) says it's the G-10 up to 20k and the Spit 9 above that, but I confess I can't find data for the Jug or P38. Jug makes sense: it was designed for hi-alt fighting with a huge turbocharger, even if it did see most action at ground level in the Italian campaign.