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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 02:34:14 PM

Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 02:34:14 PM
Iraq agrees to return of weapons inspectors but...

Last Updated Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:29:47
VIENNA, AUSTRIA - Iraq has agreed to the return of UN weapons inspectors, with an advance team slated to arrive in Baghdad in about two weeks.

At a meeting in Vienna Tuesday, chief inspector Hans Blix said an agreement was reached for inspectors to continue to search for weapons of mass destruction under previous UN Security Council rules.

"The Iraqi representatives declared that Iraq accepts all rights of inspection provided for in all the relevant Security Council resolutions," Blix said.

http://cbc.ca/stories/2002/10/01/inspectors_021001
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Curval on October 01, 2002, 02:37:07 PM
So they have finally hidden everything away...wtg Sadaam.:rolleyes:
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 02:41:08 PM
"A senior State Department official said the United States would "move into thwart mode" if the international body's Security Council fails to pass a resolution before Hans Blix, the U.N.'s chief weapons inspector, sends the inspectors back. They are scheduled to return in mid-October. "

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/01/inspectors.iraq/index.html
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: T0J0 on October 01, 2002, 02:45:22 PM
Saddam has been stalling until they could hide all the marbles...
 Now inspectors can come in... To bad for him our Sats have been working over time taking pictures of his moving marbles...
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Apache on October 01, 2002, 02:46:49 PM
According to U.N. and Iraqi officials, restrictions on surprise visits to President Saddam Hussein’s presidential palaces remain in place.

Now, I wonder where they're hiding the stuff?
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Kanth on October 01, 2002, 02:47:38 PM
Presidential sites are still off limits.

 What a joke.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 02:48:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Apache
According to U.N. and Iraqi officials, restrictions on surprise visits to President Saddam Hussein’s presidential palaces remain in place.

Now, I wonder where they're hiding the stuff?


dude, those are just palaces man, that's like where he lives, and keeps his art collection and stuff.  :) I hear he even has a dragon in one of the moats. :p

-Sikboy
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 02:49:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
Presidential sites are still off limits.

 What a joke.


Why did the Bush Sr. administration agree to the resolutions in the first place then?  

Must be Clinton's fault.  ;)
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 01, 2002, 02:52:06 PM
So you blame Saddam's behavior on the Bush family?
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Apache on October 01, 2002, 02:54:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn


Why did the Bush Sr. administration agree to the resolutions in the first place then?  

Must be Clinton's fault.  ;)


As I recall, Bush didn't. The UN Secretary General did 4 years ago.

Lets see. Who was president then?
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:01:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Apache


As I recall, Bush didn't. The UN Secretary General did 4 years ago.

Lets see. Who was president then?


Aren't these the security council resolutions that were inacted right after the Gulf War?  

If so Bush could have vetoed them.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 03:20:30 PM
Thrawn,

It is my understanding that The "Palaces"  in question are part of Iraq's attempts to run an end around the sancitons. Many if not most of them are new construction since 1991. They are created for the sole purpose of creating safe havens for these programs. I do not recall their exclusion as part of the original deal, but rather as something that was tacked on by the Iraqis in subsiquent inspections. Attempts to inspect these areas are documented in the UN reports of UNSCOM (I can't find the FAS link, I'll look again later).

This is just part of Saddams attempt to get around the inspections, much like his starving his own people to get out of the sanctions against his government.

-Sikboy
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:27:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy
They are created for the sole purpose of creating safe havens for these programs. I do not recall their exclusion as part of the original deal, but rather as something that was tacked on by the Iraqis in subsiquent inspections.


It wouldn't suprise me if they were used for weapons programs.  But I don't see how Iraq could just arbitrarily "tack it on" to a UN resolution.

If they aren't part of the resolutions, and Iraq still doesn't allow access to the palaces.  Then they would still be breaking the original resolutions and I think the US and Britain would be justified invading Iraq to uphold the original resolutions.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 03:28:07 PM
Ok, found it.

http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/980409c-unscom.htm

I just grabed one at random on "presidential sites"

Quote
Originally Posted by UNSCOM
1. The initial entry to the eight Presidential sites in Iraq, tasked by
the Executive Chairman of the Special Commission, was performed by
mission UNSCOM 243 during the period of 25 March to 4 April 1998. The
initial entry was conducted following the Memorandum of Understanding
between Iraq and the Secretary-General of 23 February 998. This
agreement and its implementing procedures provided for special
arrangements by which Iraq would accept UNSCOM and IAEA access to the
eight Presidential sites. Previously, and contrary to Security Council
resolutions, access to these sites had been blocked from UN inspectors.
As will be seen below, one major aspect of the agreement involving the
continuing nature of such access - is still unresolved, merely
postponed.




I can't blame Iraq for trying to get out of this deal, but I can and do blame us if we help him do it by accepting this new paradigm.

-Sikboy
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 03:29:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn

If they aren't part of the resolutions, and Iraq still doesn't allow access to the palaces.  Then they would still be breaking the original resolutions and I think the US and Britain would be justified invading Iraq to uphold the original resolutions. [/B]


Glad to have you aboard
Scoot over Grunherz, Thrawn is driving the war train now! :p
-Sikboy
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:30:56 PM
Well seems pretty cut and dry to me.  I imagine that the Bush and administration is hoping and praying that Saddam will still deny access to the palaces.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:38:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy


Glad to have you aboard
Scoot over Grunherz, Thrawn is driving the war train now! :p
-Sikboy


Took me awhile to come to this way of thinking.  I believe that it is the only way the US and Britain can have a justifiable war against Iraq.  I honestly don't see what WMD have to do with it...legally speaking.

What's more I believe that the countries that support the Gulf War and the UN resolutions adopted after it have moral obligation to help uphold these resolution, militarily if need be.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: 10Bears on October 01, 2002, 03:41:37 PM
The chickenhawks will simply raise the bar... We're going in no matter what.

Best to do it before the Nov elections that way Bush can get as much political milage as possiable.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:43:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
The chickenhawks will simply raise the bar... We're going in no matter what.


The question is will the US and Britain go in as countries upholding UN resolutions or as nations states starting a war of agression.  Two very different thing.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 03:47:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Took me awhile to come to this way of thinking.  I believe that it is the only way the US and Britain can have a justifiable war against Iraq.  I honestly don't see what WMD have to do with it...legally speaking.

What's more I believe that the countries that support the Gulf War and the UN resolutions adopted after it have moral obligation to help uphold these resolution, militarily if need be.


Personally, I'm still skeptical of any invasion effort. I don't want to see regime change without a solid plan for restructure laid out in advance. I know that this is a pipe dream, and I know that I'll never see it, but that is my one requirement for accepting this as a solution.  It can't happen, since any declaration of our intention to promote anything approaching democracy would likely meet with resistence from our Arab "Allies."  We are SO close to something huge and wonderfull here (no, not a war, and no, not a bunch of oil) but I'm affraid that it's just out of our grasp.

-Sikboy
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Mr. Blonde on October 01, 2002, 03:55:32 PM
Wtg!  You know when ya got it ya got it.  Who else besides Mr. Bush Mr. Blair said anything about kicking down the door if inspectors were not let back in.  Will we keep this pace up? I hope so!  Don't give the bastiges in iraq a chance, keep up the pressure on.   For ten years saddam was left to his own devices by governments and a un who thought if they ignored it maybe it would just go away.  Thanks to a president and a prime minister with a pair to say what needed to be said and weren't afraid to back it up.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:56:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy


Personally, I'm still skeptical of any invasion effort. I don't want to see regime change without a solid plan for restructure laid out in advance. I know that this is a pipe dream, and I know that I'll never see it, but that is my one requirement for accepting this as a solution.  It can't happen, since any declaration of our intention to promote anything approaching democracy would likely meet with resistence from our Arab "Allies."  We are SO close to something huge and wonderfull here (no, not a war, and no, not a bunch of oil) but I'm affraid that it's just out of our grasp.

-Sikboy


How long did it take to develope the Marshal Plan?
Do you think the current US administration wants to creat an independant, democratic Iraq?
Do you think that if there is a diplomatic country in the middle-east, besides Turkey and Isreal, that the others would eventually follow suit?
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 03:59:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Blonde
Thanks to a president and a prime minister with a pair to say what needed to be said and weren't afraid to back it up.


I have no idea what the reasons are that Bush and Blair want to go into Iraq are.  I just have an idea as to how it can be justifiable.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Sikboy on October 01, 2002, 04:09:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
How long did it take to develope the Marshal Plan?

I honestly don't know.

Quote

Do you think the current US administration wants to creat an independant, democratic Iraq?

No. Given the record of democratization efforts in the late 20th century, I don't think that this administration, or any other, is willing to pin their hopes on creating a democratic state in Iraq. I imagine there are elements within the administration who believe that it is possible, but I don't think they are the ones holding the power.
Quote

Do you think that if there is a diplomatic [sic] country in the middle-east, besides Turkey and Isreal, that the others would eventually follow suit?


I don't think that it will happen over night, but I think that if a group of people as diverse as the Iraqi population can live with some degree of freedom, that it will lead to changes. Iran may be on the verge of going forward, Qatar has been reforming. It's possible.  I know it's a dream, but it's my dream.

-Sikboy

PS: isn't it nice when we get to have these chats?
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 04:18:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy
PS: isn't it nice when we get to have these chats?


Damn refreshing.
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Elfenwolf on October 01, 2002, 04:38:19 PM
That's it Thrawn! You're out of the O'Club Leftists Club! Take off that tie-die shirt, scrape the Ecology bumper sticker off your car and trade in your mountain bike for a 4x4 truck. Personally I am shocked over this. Sheesh, just when you think you really know someone...
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Thrawn on October 01, 2002, 04:41:26 PM
:(
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 01, 2002, 04:51:43 PM
You're off my leftist list Thrawn.....  I suppose if Elf threw you out you must have done something really bad even though I dont
know yet what that was, either way you're off the list!!  :D
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Wlfgng on October 01, 2002, 05:05:04 PM
Quote
trade in your mountain bike for a 4x4 truck


wha??? can't have both ?!?!?
shite.. oh wait.. maybe a cherokee doesn't count as a truck
Title: Iraq allows weapons inspectors back.
Post by: Monk on October 02, 2002, 06:59:28 AM
WTG Thrawn.
Welcome Aboard!
I give the Inspections 3 to 6 months before "Ali-Baba" throws them them out.