Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on October 02, 2002, 08:19:37 AM
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Let's face it... It is part of the planeset and it is available to all in the arena. If not for the P51, D9, tempest and a few "perk" planes it would really stand out as a dweeb ride of choice but...
The arena has become a lot more "timid" lately (you know who you are). I don't know if it is the newfound love of (cough) "strat" and "missuns"or the fact that the pizza map made people more aware of those lonely fights and how they turn out if you are in a slow plane a long way from home.
The new "strat" is simply gangbanging. nothing more nothing less. Motives matter not to me it is the result. The result is that a horde of planes comes in and overewhelms a base with sheer numbers. The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?) flyers to kill themselves first so that their vultching is risk free... boring, and flavored with very few kills but... risk free.
Now... If you take off from another base to "vultch the vultchers" you have to pick a plane to do it in. if you pick a spit or even a -1a you can swoop in and kill a couple but then... yu face the long ride home with a conga line of fast and kill starved vultchers chasing you down. They are the last of the group that was in the "missun" so... many are in 190's and 51's and have gotten to maybe take one or two half hearted B&Z shots at enemy planes in the last 10-20 minutes and are frantic to chase you down and get a risk free kill (the only kind they will attempt).
Sooo... I been upping in a lag once in a while in those situations. very satisfying to hit the fat lazy vutchers in the lag.. sure, you can only get one or maybe two before you have to bug out but.... it is so gratifying to see the conga line of cowardly missun types peel off one by one as they realize that thier meal is escaping.
lazs
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Sooo... I been upping in a lag once in a while in those situations. very satisfying to hit the fat lazy vutchers in the lag..
What's a lag? We have the Lavochkin made La-7 and there is such a plane as the LaGG-3 but we don't have it as far as I know.
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Laz, why don't you just edit your message board persona to include the signature file to include this line. It will save time.
"You all are idiots and suck so bad at playing this game right, but how come none of you morons seem to know this fact!?!"
More or less that is what you keep saying.
My opinion on the Lavochkin is that this game environment and the real life version of the plane won't EVER match each other, and the same can be said of all the planes in this game. Add to that the differences between how planes are used in this game and how they are used in real life.
And specifically the La-7 which is an awesome low level dogfighter, which we spend 90% of our time playing at that altitude, of course the La-7 should shine....it is supposed to.
I've seen you argue how unrealistic this game is, but then again you come back and argue for moving fields closer together so we can have more dogfights quicker!?!
I am not sure what you want.
Hans.
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sorry dowding... LA7... lag is just plain lazy on my part.
as for the major with the junior member.. I don't know what to tell ya. I think I am consistent. I want realistic flight models and gunnery and damage and....
I want good gameplay. "realistic" gameplay seems kinda silly to me like giving myself rank or thinking that "winning the war" mattered. Closer fields, or least more fields that were closer would promote more even fights and the use of earlier/mid war planes. If you want only late war and gangbangs then by all means, keep the fields far apart and even draw new maps like the atrocious "pizza" map that spread out the fighting till everyone is hiding or ganbanging and then.... wonder why everyone is logging off. Look at a CV fight... lots of early planes engaging each other with fast and furious action. till some dipshit sinks the cv or kills the FH's at the base.
lazs
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The LA-7 is a great interceptor. The arena is overpopulated with them, but I try not to let that detract from the plane anyway.
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Whilst supporting 3 airforces using the entire plane set available, how can anyone cry foul on realism?
Not saying you do or dont Laz, but this topic comes up every 24 hours in some form or another on this BBS and it amazes me everytime.
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The La-7 has 26998 kills and has been killed 21276 times. 1.26 K/D
OK it's pretty much a killer - (as in it manages to kill more than it dies a little bit) but what planes should La7 be afraid of?:
The N1K2 has 1317 kills and has been killed 1237 times against the La-7. 1.06 K/D vs La7 (1.25 K/D Overall)
The La-5FN has 301 kills and has been killed 284 times against the La-7. 1.05 KD vs. La7 (1.30 K/D Overall)
The Ki-61 has 119 kills and has been killed 112 times against the La-7. 1.06 K/D vs La7 (1.39 K/D overall)
The P-47-D25 has 221 kills and has been killed 203 times against the La-7. 1.08 K/D vs. La7 (1.38 K/D Overall)
The Fw 190A-5 has 445 kills and has been killed 357 times against the La-7. 1.25 K/D vs. La7 (1.56 K/D Overall)
The Fw 190D-9 has 857 kills and has been killed 618 times against the La-7. 1.39 K/D vs. La7 (expected this one to be better) (1.75 K/D Overall )
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 32 kills and has been killed 22 times against the La-7. 1.45 K/D vs. La7 (1.81 K/D Overall)
The F4U-1C has 430 kills and has been killed 209 times against the La-7. 2.05 K/D vs. La7 (2.65 K/D Overall)
The F4U-4 has 57 kills and has been killed 20 times against the La-7. 2.85 K/D vs. La7 (2.18 K/D overall)
The Ta 152H has 55 kills and has been killed 15 times against the La-7. 3.67 K/D vs. La7 !!! (2.76 K/D overall) (this one surprised me)
The Tempest has 90 kills and has been killed 21 times against the La-7. 4.29 K/D vs. La7 (5.27 K/D overall)
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Originally posted by lazs2
The result is that a horde of planes comes in and overewhelms a base with sheer numbers. The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?)
Zone limits would prevent this ....... at least a horde would have to up from more than one base..........
What you describe could also be accomplished with a light tiffie or a 51..........
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Laz is too lazy to edit his sig file. He likes his fights handed to him on a platter but hey thats ok. He's really a nice guy under it all.
And he's right, the La7 is a nice plane to get 1 or 2 kills in out of huge pile of enemy's.
After all who knows even laz may learn some day that if you work a little harder for it, it just makes it that much sweeter in the end. :)
He is right about the bish tiffy hordes & gangbanging. It used to be that 3 or 4 good pilots could "finesse" a field. That got a LOT harder to do for several reasons.
Just keep on loving the lag Laz, russian planes rule and everyone else is just jealous.
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i get more kills in the sucky plane (spit mk 1) than in the better planes for some reason:confused:
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Originally posted by Turbot
The La-7 has 26998 kills and has been killed 21276 times. 1.26 K/D
OK it's pretty much a killer - (as in it manages to kill more than it dies a little bit) but what planes should La7 be afraid of?:
Lies, damn lies and statistics
Infact from the same stats any plane beginning with P- (barring a few P-47 sub types) should be wary of the La-7
but then from the same stats the La 5FN is one the La7 should be wary of..........(when really its the La5FN pilot the la 7 pilot should be wary of........same goes for respect for the average 202 pilot)
N1K2's rule it seems.........
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As far as I can tell its a dweeby dweeby game. Once youve got that figured out its just fun. Thats all.......
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Closer fields, or least more fields that were closer would promote more even fights and the use of earlier/mid war planes.
I blelieved this was true until I created a terrain with closer fields. I've been running it in the H2H arena and lo and behold.. vulch fest.
The only difference is that the vulchers take down the AA first then the vulch proceeds.
I solved the La7 problem however.. by creating a high-alt terrain but then there are the 'other' uber rides.
let's face it, as long as there are performance differences between AC, each having it's own 'prime' altitude, there will be cries of 'uber' this and that.
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Originally posted by Tilt
Lies, damn lies and statistics
Infact from the same stats any plane beginning with P- (barring a few P-47 sub types) should be wary of the La-7
but then from the same stats the La 5FN is one the La7 should be wary of..........(when really its the La5FN pilot the la 7 pilot should be wary of........same goes for respect for the average 202 pilot)
N1K2's rule it seems.........
The N1K2 has 1317 kills and has been killed 1237 times against the La-7. 1.06 K/D vs La7 (1.25 K/D Overall)
The La-5FN has 301 kills and has been killed 284 times against the La-7. 1.05 KD vs. La7 (1.30 K/D Overall)
The C.202 has 34 kills and has been killed 63 times against the La-7. 0.53 K/D vs La7 (0.70 K/D Overall)
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Turbot- more newbies and otherwise less abled people use the La7 as opposed to some of the more difficult planes to fly...
It's got high speed, 3 cannons in the nose (no need for convergence), can turn if it needs to and climbs very quickly.
It's got it all in a nice lil durable package.
I've always been of the opinion that the uber-good late war birds need a small perk value placed on them... for nothing else, to slow down the arena and bring back parity.
More mid-war rides will be used. People can still fly the late war rides, and the early war rides won't be outclassed by 99% of the arena, instead only 40% of the arena.
but I wouldn't wanna take away anyone's only means to get a kill, that just isn't nice.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Turbot- more newbies and otherwise less abled people use the La7 as opposed to some of the more difficult planes to fly...-SW
I threw in some niki stats too, it does OK. However another famous newbie plane, the Spit9, did'nt make the cut at all -
The Spitfire Mk IX has 1517 kills and has been killed 1587 times against the La-7. K/D 0.95 vs. La7 (1.09 overall)
P-51 is getting raped:
The P-51D has 1763 kills and has been killed 2243 times against the La-7. 0.79 KD vs La7 (1.00 overall)
So, with a negative KD's it didn't make the list of successful planes against La7. I didn't really know how numbers would turn out - but it would seem, on average, the La7 isn't as uber as one would think on first impression.
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Well, I'm not surprised by that... most La7s I engage will run at the drop of the hat. Not even a La5FN can keep pace.
Then there's also a good amount of newbies who use Spitfires.
-SW
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I don't think it is newbies that fly the La7. Newbies tend to fly planes that are relatively well known. The numbers of Spits and P-51s are a good indication that 'newbies' fly them.
A lot of mediocre and crappy 'pilots' fly the la7. They fly it because it can A. run away from any plane in the game, and B. run down any plane other than another La7. This comes in handy because you can wait for someone to run from 2 or 3 slower planes (like Spits or Nikis) then swoop in and run them down. They have a choice between giving the la7 an easy kill, or being gangbanged. Either way the La7 'pilot' gets a relatively easy kill, or at the very least has to fight with 2 or 3 friendlies to kill 1 enemy plane.
However, I think the La7 is a necesary plane to have in the game. You have to have units that are extraordinarily easy to be successful in, because people don't like to have to work to hard. Without things such as the La7 and the Flakpansie, there wouldn't be as many people playing Aces High.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I don't think it is newbies that fly the La7. Newbies tend to fly planes that are relatively well known. The numbers of Spits and P-51s are a good indication that 'newbies' fly them
I see newbies in em, but most always I seem to recognize the name of the pilot in the La7. Which makes the low performance numbers even more surprising to me. I still in shock over the Ta152's numbers - sure didn't expect that.
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I fly the La-7 occasionaly...I tend to kill more buffs with it for some reason :p
Originally posted by lazs2
The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?) flyers to kill themselves first so that their vultching is risk free... boring, and flavored with very few kills but... risk free.
Originally posted by Ghosth
He is right about the bish tiffy hordes & gangbanging. It used to be that 3 or 4 good pilots could "finesse" a field. That got a LOT harder to do for several reasons.
I'm swaying to the dark side...I'm agreeing with Lasz ;)
I used to enjoy missions...used to be a few pilots (no more than 5) would up and "finesse" (as Ghosth said) a base and we considered it a job well done.
Now you get 20+ people in on missions who re-upp and hit it again with the same numbers. And if it's bish hitting the base it seem to be the suicide tiffies...the base is usually porked after the first wave :(
Anyway, the La-7 is a fun plane to fly at times and it certainly is a exceptional aircraft but I certainly wouldn't fly it exclusively.
While we can all agree (i think we can :p ) that the La-7 could be considered uber...not every pilot who flies one is uber too:p
Regards,
Drunky
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The La-7 is an excellent plane, for base defense and goon hunting ... thats about it.
Nothing more pleasing than seeing one of those tiffie raids coming in, upping an La-7 and flying 50ft off the deck and picking off multiple goons, and there ain't a damn thing they can do about. How deflating it is when all goons in a mission have been killed.
You know, these threads usually/always bring up the numbers of Spits and La-7s seen in the MA. I don't know about you people, but it appears to me that the numbers of 190s and 109s has far exceeded the number of Spits and La-7s that I have seen as of late.
These planes are like gnats ... simple pests. They cant kill for toejam unless they catch someone not looking. At least when you see a Spit or an La-7, you will most likely get into a good fight, but these run-90s and run-O-9s, for the most part are the biggest rutabagas in the whole MA. If you do mange to get on their 6, they stick-stir and run away as fast as any La-7 that I have seen.
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The La-7 is an excellent plane, for base defense and goon hunting ... thats about it.
That's not about it... it's... well... a great fighter.
If you think otherwise, well, I can't help you there... but if I were so inclined, I could take the La7 into a furball and get ~6 or 7 kills then run right on out there.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
The La-7 is an excellent plane, for base defense and goon hunting ... thats about it.
That's not about it... it's... well... a great fighter.
If you think otherwise, well, I can't help you there... but if I were so inclined, I could take the La7 into a furball and get ~6 or 7 kills then run right on out there.
-SW
No, it's not a great fighter. It's a great cherry picker and nothing more.
Ever fight one 1v1? There are very few people here that can and will engage 1v1 in the La7. The ones that do < S > to you, but you are a minority I'm afraid.
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I fly the La5FN, it's a great fighter.
The La7 is better than the La5FN. Hence it's an even greater fighter.
The plane is great, the pilots, OTOH, probably aren't... which would explain why you would believe it's a great cherry picker and nothing more.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I fly the La5FN, it's a great fighter.
The La7 is better than the La5FN. Hence it's an even greater fighter.
The plane is great, the pilots, OTOH, probably aren't... which would explain why you would believe it's a great cherry picker and nothing more.
-SW
What's all this hub-bub about the La-7?
The single greatest dweeb machine in this game is the SBD-5 Dauntless! Flown correctly, it's the king of the cherry picking, stallfighting, bomber bashing uber machines!
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I fly the La5FN, it's a great fighter.
The La7 is better than the La5FN. Hence it's an even greater fighter.
The plane is great, the pilots, OTOH, probably aren't... which would explain why you would believe it's a great cherry picker and nothing more.
-SW
Yep, in the hands of a good pilot is a great fighter...but the two don't seem to converge much in the MA ;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
The single greatest dweeb machine in this game is the SBD-5 Dauntless! Flown correctly, it's the king of the cherry picking, stallfighting, bomber bashing uber machines!
My regards,
Widewing
by "correctly" i take it to mean hanging around in CV acks near an enema base, trying to get the odd ping in on the inevitable lemming runs to help earn perkies to go along with all the prox kills due to the aforementioned acks?
:D
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Originally posted by MrLars
Yep, in the hands of a good pilot is a great fighter...but the two don't seem to converge much in the MA ;)
that can be said of just about *any* plane/pilot combo in the MA.
long live the Borg! there's nothing more exciting than trying to steal the kill from elebenty bajillion friendlies.
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"The La-7 is an excellent plane, for base defense and goon hunting ... thats about it."
Base defense, to me, would imply that the La-7 is a good fighter, and it surely is. Guns are powerfull, but on the other hand suck for some reason (round drop off ?) and it handles and turns very well.
I probably should have said .. "Its best uses are" ... IMHO
AKSWulfe - I agree ... as long as the furball is not to far away from base.
I just don't see it as a plane that I would take on a mission due to the low amount of ammo (450 rounds) that would be needed for fighting at the enemy base, and then possibly trying to return with some ammo for defensive purposes.
Edit:
Now that Shane is involved in this thread ... I have flown the La-7 alot in the past and would consider myself a good La-7 pilot, but Shane has some excellent films showing how deadly a fighter the La-7 can be in the right hands ... still, to me, not my preferred fighter for all-around killing at the moment.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The La-7 is an excellent plane, for base defense and goon hunting ... thats about it.
Nothing more pleasing than seeing one of those tiffie raids coming in, upping an La-7 and flying 50ft off the deck and picking off multiple goons, and there ain't a damn thing they can do about. How deflating it is when all goons in a mission have been killed.
You know, these threads usually/always bring up the numbers of Spits and La-7s seen in the MA. I don't know about you people, but it appears to me that the numbers of 190s and 109s has far exceeded the number of Spits and La-7s that I have seen as of late.
These planes are like gnats ... simple pests. They cant kill for toejam unless they catch someone not looking. At least when you see a
Spit or an La-7, you will most likely get into a good fight, but these run-90s and run-O-9s, for the most part are the biggest rutabagas in the whole MA. If you do mange to get on their 6, they stick-stir and run away as fast as any La-7 that I have seen.
DOn't be lazy post the numbers ;)
You didn't mention what you like to fly mostly, I just on a whim pulled up your La7 stats since it is topic of this thread.
slapshot has 73 kills and has been killed 45 times in the La-7
The La7 seems to be treating you well - you are doing better than average. What is it that is running away from you then? :)
--Digged a little deeper : slapshot has 247 kills and has been killed 139 times in the FM2.
Oh gezzz you are one of THOSE :D
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I love La7's. I have 'em painted all over my Yak.
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Yup .. I fly that "UBER" FM2 that won't fly faster than 295 mph level. :D
Just about eveyone of those kills in the FM2 was well earned (a few vulches in there :rolleyes: )
Those La-7 kills are mostly base defense and if you dug a little deeper you will see how many C-47s I have wasted (I would say that the majority of them are while flying the La-7).
Edit:
Numbers ... hmmmm ... don't have any .. sorry. I am not whining that there are too many of these skilless popsicle planes, I could care less, just wanted to pass on my observations.
I think that the trend has swayed from the Spit/La-7 horde to the run-90 and run-O-9 horde.
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The La-7 is a lousy airplane
every time it crossed the path of my lightning it died
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Those La-7 kills are mostly base defense and if you dug a little deeper you will see how many C-47s I have wasted (I would say that the majority of them are while flying the La-7).
slapshot has 22 kills and has been killed 0 times in the La-7 against the C-47A. NOt a majority but still a bunch of broken hearted mishun players :)
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Dale will make what he feels are the necessary tweaks to his game and guess what........we won't have alot to say about it and we will still play and have fun.
Those who can't deal with it will leave and new players will fill their places and have fun and the life of this product will continue until exhausted.
It's always been this way and it will continue...so far for me, nothing takes place in the game that I can't overlook or adjust to.
I do agree with lazs and the others to some degree, I guess I just have accepted what HTC has given us, a great game/sim with a vibrant community for the low low price of $14.95/month. It's not perfect, but neither are we...well, at least you guys aren't:)
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"slapshot has 22 kills and has been killed 0 times in the La-7 against the C-47A. NOt a majority but still a bunch of broken hearted mishun players"
Almost 1/3 of my La-7 kills !!! :D
The rest is defense with a smattering of "letsflythisfortheheckofit" kills.
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some may have missed the point of my post... I enjoy a good, even or nearly even fight with a lot of numbers of planes involved... For that type of action I don't care to fly the La nor, do I fear one But.....
I have faced facts... when there is no action save the 'missun' gangbang... why frustrate yourself? fly a late war, very fast plane and get a kill or two and run like hell.
sure... it ain't as fun as real fights but it beats cryin about it and fighting an uphill and frustrating battle. When a good fight develops I can allways get out of the La 7 pig and jump into an FM2 or -1A and have a good time.
Certainly I would rather see more good fights but will be satisfied (or something resembling satisfied) with killing a couple of planes every half hour or so in the La or 51b.
lazs
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Originally posted by Shane
by "correctly" i take it to mean hanging around in CV acks near an enema base, trying to get the odd ping in on the inevitable lemming runs to help earn perkies to go along with all the prox kills due to the aforementioned acks?
:D
Flown correctly: Grab 15-20k, ambush anything below you.
Tell ya what, meet me in the TA sometime, we'll both grab one and you'll see just how remarkable the SBD really is.;)
Tell me, how many of these do you find flying in the ack of a CV?
Yak-9U
SpitV
C.205
SpitIX
N1K2
Bf 109G2
Hurricane Mk.I
Yak-9T
Fw 190D-9
F4U-4
I have multiple kills on nearly all of those. I've shot down P-51s at 25k, Jugs at 10-15k. I'm as likely to fly the SBD from a land base as from a CV. However, Karnak was there the other night when we were operating off of a CV. He could vouch for how I fly the SBD; high CAP, getting lots of kills and yeah, an ack assisted kill now and then. By the same token, I've lost a few SBDs to friendly ack chasing Ju 88s. Generally speaking, it's a wash.
Geez Shane, get out of the dweeb rides a try a "real man's" airplane! :D 250 mph (if you have 10 minutes), 1,500 ft/min climb (if light fuel and no ord), with just two little MGs....
My regards,
Widewing
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Laz...
unforunately we've reached the point "we've" always shot for...
a "realistic" arena. WW2 air combat was all about numbers and engaging with the advantage...and thats what we have. Truthfully even though we fly ww2 planes the enviornment has been more WW1. The days of individual combats and great 1-2, 2-2,2-3 and so on are pretty much gone in the MA...at least they were as of a few months ago when I last flew. We've got a great sim...it's just not the one some of us were looking for.
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Originally posted by humble
Laz...
unforunately we've reached the point "we've" always shot for...
a "realistic" arena. WW2 air combat was all about numbers and engaging with the advantage...and thats what we have. Truthfully even though we fly ww2 planes the enviornment has been more WW1. The days of individual combats and great 1-2, 2-2,2-3 and so on are pretty much gone in the MA...at least they were as of a few months ago when I last flew. We've got a great sim...it's just not the one some of us were looking for.
You still get this in the big map, but then "the other guys" scream.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Let's face it... It is part of the planeset and it is available to all in the arena. If not for the P51, D9, tempest and a few "perk" planes it would really stand out as a dweeb ride of choice but...
The arena has become a lot more "timid" lately (you know who you are). I don't know if it is the newfound love of (cough) "strat" and "missuns"or the fact that the pizza map made people more aware of those lonely fights and how they turn out if you are in a slow plane a long way from home.
The new "strat" is simply gangbanging. nothing more nothing less. Motives matter not to me it is the result. The result is that a horde of planes comes in and overewhelms a base with sheer numbers. The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?) flyers to kill themselves first so that their vultching is risk free... boring, and flavored with very few kills but... risk free.
Now... If you take off from another base to "vultch the vultchers" you have to pick a plane to do it in. if you pick a spit or even a -1a you can swoop in and kill a couple but then... yu face the long ride home with a conga line of fast and kill starved vultchers chasing you down. They are the last of the group that was in the "missun" so... many are in 190's and 51's and have gotten to maybe take one or two half hearted B&Z shots at enemy planes in the last 10-20 minutes and are frantic to chase you down and get a risk free kill (the only kind they will attempt).
Sooo... I been upping in a lag once in a while in those situations. very satisfying to hit the fat lazy vutchers in the lag.. sure, you can only get one or maybe two before you have to bug out but.... it is so gratifying to see the conga line of cowardly missun types peel off one by one as they realize that thier meal is escaping.
lazs
Not too bad, Lazs. ;) Your note registers about 6 on my whineometer. :)
Missions are fun, Lazs; only doofus poopie heads furball. :)
curly
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Originally posted by Widewing
Flown correctly: Grab 15-20k, ambush anything below you.
Tell ya what, meet me in the TA sometime, we'll both grab one and you'll see just how remarkable the SBD really is.;)
Haha I thought you were joking :eek:
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Not too bad, Lazs. ;) Your note registers about 6 on my whineometer. :)
Missions are fun, Lazs; only doofus poopie heads furball. :)
curly
lol, funny you should say poopie head.
Nopoop just joined the BK's. :)
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
The La-7 is a lousy airplane
every time it crossed the path of my lightning it died
really? you totally sure of that?
you're 16-7 vs them in your turd-he-ate. hardly stellar performance, considering you're a bish.
otoh, i'm 53-7 vs 38's in an la7.
i recall one of those 53 being you, while you had an alt advantage on me.
:D
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Lazs, I wondered what the hell you were doing in a Lazs-7.
If I were flying a Lazs-7, which I never do, any results I got in the form of kills would be counteracted by the total lack of a challenge.
Urchin is probably right. People here don't want to have to try too hard. They want easy kills. They're probably not interested in ACM or even WW2. Just line 'em up and shoot 'em down. :rolleyes: I'm wondering for how long HTC will be able to sustain this policy of "bums on seats". :confused:
I'm hoping we'll get a Mission Arena so that we can avoid the gangbang-vulch-HO-furball-game-the-game-fly-till-u-die crap.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Flown correctly: Grab 15-20k, ambush anything below you.
Tell ya what, meet me in the TA sometime, we'll both grab one and you'll see just how remarkable the SBD really is.;)
Tell me, how many of these do you find flying in the ack of a CV?
Yak-9U
SpitV
C.205
SpitIX
N1K2
Bf 109G2
Hurricane Mk.I
Yak-9T
Fw 190D-9
F4U-4
I have multiple kills on nearly all of those. I've shot down P-51s at 25k, Jugs at 10-15k. I'm as likely to fly the SBD from a land base as from a CV. However, Karnak was there the other night when we were operating off of a CV. He could vouch for how I fly the SBD; high CAP, getting lots of kills and yeah, an ack assisted kill now and then. By the same token, I've lost a few SBDs to friendly ack chasing Ju 88s. Generally speaking, it's a wash.
Geez Shane, get out of the dweeb rides a try a "real man's" airplane! :D 250 mph (if you have 10 minutes), 1,500 ft/min climb (if light fuel and no ord), with just two little MGs....
My regards,
Widewing
lol, i know how an sbd can fly. 2 little .50's aren't gonna get a lot of kills without a lot of ack assisted help. they're not a one pass kill plane. and i have also seen you operate in cv acks, plenty of times. you do the same with an fm2. no shame in simply admitting to it - that hanging in fleet acks provides a lot of help, read: kills. that's your thing to do. and yeah planes of all types wander into fleet ack range, moreso now with all the newbies signing up (and seemingly defaulting to bish - cod knows i've killed a ton of bish last camp, more than the usual).
i've served my time in "real men's planes" and it's much more fun to get in the dweeb ride la7 and go on a dweeb killing spree - it's a lot harder for them to run, and since i'm not usually found in fleet acks (or base acks for that matter) it's also helpful in avoiding the monkey-hordes.
different strokes and all that, but at least try not to make it sound harder than it really is.
;)
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Widewing - I'm with you brother!!! The other day I upped an SBD to go drop an egg on a CV. Just as I got close to the CV, at about 12k, I see an LA-7 coming for the head on. I remembered someone saying how much fun it was to fight with the SBD so I figured what the hell. I ditched the egg and in I went. I avoided 2 HO passes and by now had the dolt nice and slow. I worked to his 6 and got a few pings in. He immediately ran for the CV ack!!!. I gave chase while laughing my arse off at the sight of a lame 7 driver running for his life from an SBD. I got down low and a Spit joined in so I dispatched him. By now I was in range of the CV guns and was back pinging the Lame 7. But alas, before I could finish him off I got popped by a CV gunner. It was the most fun I have had in a long time, I only wish I had filmed it so I would have a nice picture of an LA-7 running away from my deadly SBD!!!
Avid
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Originally posted by Turbot
--Digged a little deeper : slapshot has 247 kills and has been killed 139 times in the FM2.
Oh gezzz you are one of THOSE :D
But, you see that you'e not going to be running away from anything in the FM-2. This is a slug-it-out fighter if there ever was one. I love it, and it's my primary ride. Mostly flying Big Blue Birds this tour and enjoying every minute of it.
Like Laz, I'll grab a P-51B for dealing with field gangbangs, but rather than take an La-7, I prefer the Yak-9U.
Moreover, I agree with Laz that these monster field gang fests are getting rediculous. There were about 60 Knits hitting A8 last night. One's only option was to grab a fast fighter (P-51B) from the nearest field and cherry pick the incoming horde.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Shane
lol, i know how an sbd can fly. 2 little .50's aren't gonna get a lot of kills without a lot of ack assisted help. they're not a one pass kill plane. and i have also seen you operate in cv acks, plenty of times. you do the same with an fm2. no shame in simply admitting to it - that hanging in fleet acks provides a lot of help, read: kills. that's your thing to do. and yeah planes of all types wander into fleet ack range, moreso now with all the newbies signing up (and seemingly defaulting to bish - cod knows i've killed a ton of bish last camp, more than the usual).
i've served my time in "real men's planes" and it's much more fun to get in the dweeb ride la7 and go on a dweeb killing spree - it's a lot harder for them to run, and since i'm not usually found in fleet acks (or base acks for that matter) it's also helpful in avoiding the monkey-hordes.
different strokes and all that, but at least try not to make it sound harder than it really is.
;)
Come on Shane, cut the baloney. When you are the only fighter defending a CV, you can damn well rest assured that you will be ducking into the ack when the horde shows up. But what do you do when the CV gets tanked? You can't run in the FM-2, so what do you do? You fight. You kill 'em all and then go home.
Besides, you really have no idea how I fly. We've flown together once this tour, you in the La-7 and I had a 109F. Remember, we were taking turns clubing McNasty.
Take the challenge, fly 100 sorties in the SBD. Fly from a CV, do whatever you want. But don't rationalize or feed your ego stating that I'm relying on ship ack for kills. Those Rooks I fly with will laugh at that suggestion.
You're right, you don't get many snap shot kills with the SBD. You have to saddle up and hang on to 'em. None of this hit and flee stuff will do. However, do not underestimate those two guns, I've brought down more than a few Buffs and PTs with them. The SBD is the only bomber in this game I can fly without the slightest dread of encounters with fighters. Indeed, If I've got some altitude, they had better not ignore that little dive bomber...
As Avid showed us, you get slow fighting an SBD, you get dead pretty quick.
My regards,
Widewing
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[QUOTEWhile we can all agree (i think we can ) that the La-7 could be considered uber...not every pilot who flies one is uber too
Heheheh, I'm a good example of that thinking: I fly the La7 occassionally, but to say I'm not "an uber pilot" would be an understatement. I just fly and fight to have a good time. My personal fav is the Pony, in any situation not involving CVs.:p
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I'm sorry but the La7 is an overrated threat.
The plane itself in its advantages has many weaknesses. There are only two pilots I respect in the La7, Shane and Kbman. Apart from that the rest are complete tards and have no idea how to fly this fighter properly.
Weak points: bad turning without intense throttle management; bad pitch control at high AoA; overshoots easy; pilots tend be blacked out most of the time; low rof; huge drop on gun ballastics; shocking low 12 view; deadmeat in a HO.
There are many ways to defeat La7s.
Vulcan has 23 kills and has been killed 5 times in the Typhoon IB against the La-7.
Vulcan has 197 kills and has been killed 23 times in the Typhoon IB.
As for the newbie gangbangs, I'd have to disagree, in the last week I have been shocked by the number of guys who have clearly dragged me away from the 'gang' or ack for a decent fight. Big to some of those newbies.
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I can't tell you guys how much I'd prefer an MA style environment, but timed to mid 1943 instead of the end of 1944. Even late 1943 would be vastly better.
Keep the fast, late war aircraft in there, but perk them.
1943 would offer a nice wide range of interesting aircraft, such as:
80' Elco PT Boat
A6M5 "Zeke"
A-20
B-17G
B-24
B-25
B-26B
B6N2 "Jill"
Beaufighter Mk X
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Bf110G-2
C.205
C-47A
D4Y2 "Judy"
E Boat
F4U-1
F6F-3
Flakpanzer 38(t)
FM-2
Fw190A-5
G4M2 "Betty"
G.55
H8K2 "Emily"
Halifax Mk III
He177A-5
Hs129B-2
Hurricane Mk IIc
Hurricane Mk IId
Il-2 Type 3
J2M2 "Jack"
Ju52
Ju87G-1
Ju88A-4
Ju88C-6b
Ju188A-2
Ki-21-IIb "Sally"
Ki-43-IIb "Oscar"
Ki-44-IIb "Tojo"
Ki-61-Ia "Tony"
La-5FN
Lancaster Mk III
LTV(A)2
LTV(A)4
M3
M4A3 (75mm)
M8
M16
Me410A-2
Mosquito B.Mk IX
Mosquito FB.Mk VI
Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII
P-38J
P-39Q
P-40N
P-47D-5
P-51A
P-51B
Panzer IV H
Pe-2
Re.2005
SBD-5
SdKfz 232
Seafire Mk III
S.M.79-II
Spitfire HF.Mk IX
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
T-34/85
TBM-3
Tiger I
Type VII U-Boat
Typhoon Mk Ib
Wellington Mk IX
Yak-9D
Yak-9T
Z.107
Now tell me that mix of units isn't more appealing and less dominated by a few well armed speed demons than the late 1944 MA we have. There are many more that I didn't list, yet the list I presented is a more even mix by far than what we have now.
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Yes, I saw Widewing using the SBD as a fighter, and killing things out away from the AA umbrella. I still don't think he could kill a fighter pilot that had any clue as to what he was doing. The fighter might not get the SBD, but the SBD should have no chance to get the fighter. I can't imagine losing to an SBD in my Mossie of 190A-5.
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What's all the hub-bub over this tin-can looking piece of garish Russky crap-O-la~? I'm surprised it could taxi out of the hangar,, sounding like "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang" (pieces of metal falling off, empennage hanging to one side, etc)
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beetle.. I think mostly everyone is getting the point.... except you.
The La is no uber plane and can quite easily be defeated in a good furball. I am 10/1 against La's or better because of the fights I choose. I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane. I would challenge you to take up a La7 and try to do well in a furball. If you ever try one your opinion of them might take on a little more weight. I personally think that you will do very poorly. Certainly nothing like the automatic kill machine you attribute to the La.
The "missun" mentality in the ma, prime time, is just awful lately. Everyone is so timid that they avoid a fight at all costs... everyone is starved for kills and 10 cons chasing one guy in the wrong place at the wrong time is the new way. When I get a kill these days it means I have managed to steal it from 4-10 other guys.
Worse... the anal building battlers think they are wanted and needed... If you manage to get a little furball going between a cv and a base say.... They "help" by butting in and killing the cv or fighter hangers and with a hearty salute... " I got the cv/fighter hangers guys so I'm off to pork some other fight seeya later!".
or.... "BIG MISSUN UP.. 130 OF US ARE GONNA FLY 4 SECTORS TO KILL THE FIGHTER HANGES AT A5... 10 SLOTS LEFT".
lazs
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The plane itself in its advantages has many weaknesses. There are only two pilots I respect in the La7, Shane and Kbman. Apart from that the rest are complete tards and have no idea how to fly this fighter properly.
Vulcan ...
You are using a VERY wide brush to paint a picture here. Yes, Shane is supreme in the La-7 (don't know Kbman - sorry bud), but to label anyone else that flies the La-7 a TARD is streching it. I would consider myself a GOOD La-7 pilot and have gotten better watching Shane's films of him fighting in the La-7, but I am far from a TARD.
I went goon hunting last night and got bounced by 2 run-O-9s that were protecting the goon. Using some of Shane's moves, I got a couple of snapshot solutions, unable to get the kill, but eventually flew both of them into the ground/ocean (proximity kills) and then killed the goon. :D
Lazs ...
No matter home many times you bring up this subject, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Missions will always take place and somewhere along the line, they are going to pork the base or destroy the CV that is supplying your furball.
The guys that play the strat game have a different agenda (you know that) and will destroy any threat (base or CV) that jepordizes the path to the "end game". I am a "strat" guy at heart, but also enjoy some good furball at times. When the base or CV is destroyed that supplies the furball, within a short period of time, another furball will appear somewhere on the map, and that is where I will move to. Easy ...
I guess you feel the need to keep reminding us of how you prefer to play the game ... thats cool.
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Lazs-7 -
Certainly nothing like the automatic kill machine you attribute to the La.
I didn't say that at all. My feeling about the LA7 is that is holds all the cards in the manoeuvrability stakes and has incredible performance - fastest unperked prop plane in the game. (?) I am not afraid of the LAzs7. In the tour just ended, I killed 17 of them and was killed by a LAzs7 only twice. I can live with that. There are two reasons I don't fear the LA7: 1) They are often flown by Tards/dweebs, which leads to... 2) They often attempt an HO, and come off worse than their opponent. That's certainly the case if they try that toejam against my P47. Speaking of which, I got a 33/2 k/d in the D25 last ToD, so I don't feel I need dweeb planes like the Lazs-7.
But Lazs is right. I am a slow learner, and missed the point of his post - was there one?
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There are many ways to defeat La7s.
The only way I've found to defeat them is with altitude and speed and jumping on them while they are already engaged or slow from just being in a fight. It's been about 1.5 yrs flying online and my rides of choice have been the Hellcat, F4U-1 and P-51B and I'm still scratching my head on how to defeat the LA7 badboy from anywhere near equal terms. Most of the people who post here are excellent sticks, far above the norm, and so when you state the LA7 is an easy kill, I just have to throw those comments out the window because I'm certain you do not represent the experiences of the arena at large. And then when the average and below average players have to run up against good sticks in an LA7, oh my...I think we know we are really just flying for score/points and can't take our lumps....furball conga line or not.
I can't tell you guys how much I'd prefer an MA style environment, but timed to mid 1943 instead of the end of 1944. Even late 1943 would be vastly better. Keep the fast, late war aircraft in there, but perk them.
Karnak, I agree with you.
fastest unperked prop plane in the game.
Fastest has no real benefits in a dogfight. A true dogfight engagment occurs at speeds much less than top end. It's acceleration that is important. It's acceleration that regains the speed so that you can sustain more G turns.
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beetle... since you brought up your score....
You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour... you average less than 4 kills per hour and you NEVER fly the La7.. now, those stats suggest that no... you don't know what I am talking about or... even what you are talking about.
Your stats show that you not only don't furball in a La7... you don't even fly one. Who cares how dweeby you think flying one into a horde of vultchers and then ruinning home is since it is apparent that you avoid all contact with other planes. It is obvious that you hate La's because they can hunt your cowardly solitary but down and kill you.
oh... the lazs7?? you do know how many sorties i have flown one in the last half dozen tours don't you? What, maybe 1/2 of 1%?
and slap.. my beef is not with the anal strat guys taking fields in a mob necessarily... I mean, if they think that is fun but.... they got the whole map to gangbang so... why come over to a worthless field or cv to "help out"? Why? well.... because they crave the attention. They want to be part of what is happening. they can't get the furballers to join em so they join the furballers. Like I said... they have plenty of other targets/fields whatever. why ruin the only good furball. Sure, another one will develop given time but as soon as they see some numbers..... the friggin strat guys will drag their attention starved butts over to ruin it. I'm just saying it seems like it is getting worse lately.
lazs
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I am sort of surprised that people seem to have such a low opinion of the LA-7. As a fighter I mean. It is a superb fighter, in my opinion only being slightly less well rounded overall than the P-51. The P-51 gets the nod from me because it has excellent low speed handling and the La-7 doesn't. Of course, the La-7 driver never has to get to low speed if he doesn't want to, and he can go from 200 to 300 mph in about 3 seconds flat. I think the La-7 is probably the 'best' plane for a lone-wolf pilot, or someone who is fighting without squaddies in an area where his team is outnumbered by 3 or more to 1 (which is pretty standard in the MA).
Like I said before, the La-7 in the MA is mostly flown by mediocre pilots that don't really know how to fight. They know how to run, and they know how to BnZ, but as far as actually fighting 1v1 goes, 95% of them haven't got a clue. If you can sucker them into a situation where they'll expose themselves to a shot without realizing it, you can generally kill them. Of course, if you screw up (at least in the 190s and 109s I normally fly) they'll wear you down in an extended fight.
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LA-7 = El Gay - Seven
eskimo
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and slap.. my beef is not with the anal strat guys taking fields in a mob necessarily... I mean, if they think that is fun but.... they got the whole map to gangbang so... why come over to a worthless field or cv to "help out"? Why? well.... because they crave the attention. They want to be part of what is happening. they can't get the furballers to join em so they join the furballers. Like I said... they have plenty of other targets/fields whatever. why ruin the only good furball. Sure, another one will develop given time but as soon as they see some numbers..... the friggin strat guys will drag their attention starved butts over to ruin it. I'm just saying it seems like it is getting worse lately.
Lazs ...
You may have a point there ... BUT ... if a furball rises near HQ or the mainland, the base or CV supplying the furball is in definate danger of being destroyed.
As CO for the [M.A.W.] Blacksheep, I can say with certainty, that when we decide to destroy a base or a CV, it is not with the intention of getting attention ... it is only another piece in the bigger "strat" puzzle that we must take. Never have we said, "Lets go destroy the furball" ... we usually avoid the furball area and attack a base or bases that have been ingnored by the enemy furballers. That strategy is sometimes used to quell the furball participation by the enemy.
I can't speak for the intentions of other squads ... maybe they do do it for attention.
Oh .. why don't you drop the un-needed adjectives. You are as "anal" about furballing, as strat guys are about taking bases. So its the case of the "pot calling the kettle black". I know you do it for "effect", but really, there is no need for it.
<>
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Lazs,
I don’t think Maths (or “Math”, as you call it in your country) is your strong suit. Where do you get these figures???? I have just reviewed my stats for those last three tours – total 969K, 295D = overall k/d of 3.28/1. Where do you get this 1.5 to 1? Is there another guy called Beet1e? If you were just looking at the P47D25 values, I only started flying that seriously in the Tour that just ended - 33k, 2d. I fly it for air to air combat, and use the D30 for jabo. And unlike some people who fly one plane the whole time, I like to fly different planes plus GVs and field guns. I think you must have looked at my P47D25 killage and averaged it over three months – LOL! And I thought you were a smart guy. So did Tomato. She will be disappointed. :(
I see that your comprehension needs brushing up too. It is obvious that you hate La's because they can hunt your cowardly solitary but down and kill you.
Oh yeah, I got killed twice by a LA7 last tour. :eek::eek:
You’re right about one thing though: Your stats show that you not only don't furball in a La7... you don't even fly one.
You could have gone further, and added that I don’t furball in anything.
I never fly either the LA7 or N1K online – but that does not mean I don’t fly them offline. Of course I do, because that’s the best way to work out their strengths and, more importantly, their weaknesses.
Anyway, I don’t need to labour my points here. All the other guys can check my stats for themselves if they want to.
I really don’t know what the futility-furball-furball scenario proves. And I sure as hell fail to see the importance of your beloved k/t statistic. That would depend very much on how many cons were available to be killed. And when I fly, there might only be 80 guys online. When YOU fly, there’s likely to be 300 or more.
When I began playing these war games, I had only scant knowledge of WW2 aircraft, other than those involved in the Battle of Britain, plus some of the planes used in the Pacific. I had never heard of the FW190!!! But I have tried to educate myself by going to WW2 museums, by buying WW2 air combat videos, and by posing questions to guys here who know more than I do about WW2. I also bought Francis Gabreski’s book, and have attempted to re-enact some of the P47 missions he flew – as far as possible as the AH MA allows. Nowhere in his book does Gabby talk about furballing. Nowhere in his book does he talk about kills per hour. Nowhere did he gripe about the map, the terrain, the opposition, the amount of available daylight or the performance of his aircraft. That makes me realise, Lazs, just how artificial is your own perception of WW2, since you seem to gripe about a number of these factors. And yet I never thought you were one of those guys who can “win” only when their own preconceived array of arena criteria has been met. Maybe I was wrong? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :confused:
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Widewing,
Question...
If the SBD is as good as you keep on saying it is, then surely questions have to be asked about it's flight modeling in AH, since it was a two seater Dive Bomber after all. And not a front line fighter.
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
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Slapshot - fair enuff... it was a broad brush, then again I don't think I've come up against you so we won't know til that happens :) but I was generalising, but the generalisation still applies.
Puke - most people here know my 'moves' (that sounds so tacky), especially KB. If you haven't figured it out by now then you're not paying attention. I'll give you a clue on the key points to focus on - bad pitch control at high AoA (tendincy to snap roll), high E retention leading to long pilot blackouts, aversion to ground.
This years tour stats spell it out, the La is not hard to defeat unless the pilot absolutely knows its limits:
23:5
9:3
29:7
16:2
17:7
25:2
I can assure you many were genuine A2A, most of the kills would have been from Kbman where I died more.
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Originally posted by Gixer
Widewing,
Question...
If the SBD is as good as you keep on saying it is, then surely questions have to be asked about it's flight modeling in AH, since it was a two seater Dive Bomber after all. And not a front line fighter.
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
Hi Gixer!
If we look at how the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps used the SBD, we find that it was pressed into service as a fighter on numerous occasions. Notably during the Battle of the Coral Sea and at Guadalcanal. Having a wing of considerable area, it proved to be "remarkably agile", or "surprisingly maneuverable", "nearly a match for the Zero". Indeed, with less than half full fuel tanks and devoid of external ordnance, its wing loading was virtually identical to the mid-war A6M5. Not only was this noteworthy, but the SBD was designed for steady loading exceeding 7.5 G in daily service, with a failure loading greater than 10.5 G (much stronger than HTC's modeling).
In late 1941, the SBD was finest dive bomber in service anywhere in the world. Even the famed Ju 87 Stuka was badly out-classed by the little Dauntless.
As late as 1943, a proposal to re-engine the SBD with the Wright R-2600 was seriously considered by the the USN as an alternative to trouble plagued Curtiss SB2C Helldiver. It was planned to stretch the fuselage 7 inches in front of the wing, and 10 inches behind, as well as increase the rudder area to compensate for the increased torque. Unfortunately, politics factored into the equation and no prototypes were ever ordered.
The SBD is accurately modeled as to flight envelope, but is woefully under-modeled in terms of airframe strength and durability.
My regards,
Widewing
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beet1e... my math may be faulty but.... your k/d for the last three tours that have been completed is.... 2.56/1 1.30/1 and .66/1 when I add those up and divide by three I get 1.5/1 average. Perhaps you have another way of doing it?
as for the La7.. it is a very very capable plane with low ammo load and crappy guns. I never could hit something if it was directly in front of me. To fly it at all times and to fly it to it's strengths in the MA is kinda.... wussy but... so is flying only the P51 or D9 exclussivly and... only to their strengths.
I still think that the la is useful to bust up a bunch of guys who are being far more wussy (gangbanging) than the la 7 could ever be. I also feel that you don't know the first thing about the la or about the arena.
slap.. I don't like any mob of a couple dozen planes hitting a lightly defended or not even defended field but that is, of course, up to you. I find that behavior ten times wussier than flying the best plane for the situation but.....
that is not what I was talking about necessarily when I was talking about the attention starved. We see groups of 1,2 or more who come to a good fight far off the beaten path and simply destroyu the fighter hangers or the cv and then move on.. well, everyone pretty much "moves on" since there is nothing to do anymore ther (and don't tell me abouit the joys of shooting up buildings).
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Oh... and bett1e said... "Lazs, I wondered what the hell you were doing in a Lazs-7.
If I were flying a Lazs-7, which I never do, any results I got in the form of kills would be counteracted by the total lack of a challenge. "
well.... I haven't flown the plane much but... I would challenge you to come with me on the sorties I have flown it. I fly to a base that is being vultched by a half dozen up to 20 guys with no friendlies in the air. Try to kill one or two and then beat the conga line of wussie "missun" types all starved for anything better than a building to shoot at following you home on the deck.. We will fly in together but once we get there u are on your own.
That is what I think a "proper use" for the la or... 51 or D9 is... everything else is kinda.... wussie and unfun.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the Bk's
Ambassador of goodwill
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Originally posted by rv6
What's all the hub-bub over this tin-can looking piece of garish Russky crap-O-la~? I'm surprised it could taxi out of the hangar,, sounding like "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang" (pieces of metal falling off, empennage hanging to one side, etc)
cool picture - like the paint job
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Lazs. Your Math is porked. I don't see how you arrive at those figures. I use the Stats page. As you can see for tour 32 (partial screenshot attached) it is 328k, 98d. Stats for tours 31 and 30 are 360k/109d and 281k/88d respectively. Add 'em up and divide as you did, and I get 969/295 = 3.28 kills per death plus a few more decimals which I am prepared to discount. To get this page, go to stats, enter my name (penultimate character = 1 (one) not L) and click on both Kills In and Died In. That is the only way I view my stats as it provides me with what I need to know.
The P47D25 stats are shown here for the last tour, and show my k/d as 33/2, or 16½/1 if you prefer.
Assuming that HTC is not lying to me, what makes you think I don't know the first thing about the arena? Maybe I just know the second, third and fourth things about the arena? LOL! Come to think of it, what IS the first thing about the arena? Please enlighten me. :)
Anyway, just to provide a respite from the bickering (which I hope we will resume right after this) I had an LA5 all over me like a cheap suit this afternoon. I was low in P47D25. The damn LA5 caught me off guard. I tried to split S and run, and although that opened up separation at first, he caught right back up to me again. He was too close for me to convert the engagement into an HO, which I would almost certainly have won. Well, 80% certain. :D The last card up my sleeve was to barrel roll the P47, remembering what you said about it being easy to force an LAx overshoot. (It was you, wasn't it?) It worked. He managed to ping my engine out on the way past, but I gave him eight barrels at 400 yards, and he went down smoking. After I got the kill credit, I ditched successfully.
Now here's that stats page -
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs. Your Math is porked. I don't see how you arrive at those figures. I use the Stats page.
The stats page does not include times where you crashed without credit to an enemy. So if you died while deacking a field, or if you hit a mountain while afk or something... this won't show up that page.
It will, however, show up in the score page. Your K/D will almost always be lower there than on the stats page. I would consider it a more "accurate" measure than just going by the stats page alone.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The stats page does not include times where you crashed without credit to an enemy.
DMF - you may be right about that, and admittedly I have had a few deaths like that, but not that many. But Lazs's analysis is completely wrong, and his figures are waaaaaayy off. On the way to the supermarket just now, I figured out what Lazs did. I think he looked at only my Fighter scores, whereas many of my missions are scored as Attack sorties. He did that last time we were arguing. It did not occur to him to check attack scores because he never scores his own flights like that, and you know Lazs - can only see things from his own point of view. :rolleyes:
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It is nothing to argue about, la7 is a perfect killer. May be its reputation is spoiled due to fact that very few worthy pilots fly it. I am VVS type, and flying VVS RKKA planes most of my time ,but I use la7 for vulching or strat purposes only. It is too powerful and so not challenging. Good pilot can bring 7-10 kills each sortie in it without much problems. La5 is much more interesting.
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nm
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Originally posted by Widewing
Hi Gixer!
If we look at how the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps used the SBD, we find that it was pressed into service as a fighter on numerous occasions.
The SBD is accurately modeled as to flight envelope, but is woefully under-modeled in terms of airframe strength and durability.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing,
Well, learn something new about military history every day from you guys, well every day i read the message boards. Was it pressed into service as a fighter through choice? Or through insufficent numbers of fighters being available at certin times when those battles took place?
Imagine what it could do with a couple 20mm's :)
As for LA7's I agree with Urchin and Co they are an excellent overall fighter, though you rarely see one flown to it's strengths imho.
And personally quite enjoy seeing LA7's as their usually low and easy to suprise on most occasions (guess their like a dog in a car at times, watching the scenery flash by rather then looking behind) or if mixing it up don't fare very well in HO's against a Tiffie. :)
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
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Originally posted by Gixer
And personally quite enjoy seeing LA7's as their usually low and easy to suprise on most occasions (guess their like a dog in a car at times, watching the scenery flash by rather then looking behind)
I have never heard it put better. God bless La7 pilots :)
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Originally posted by Gixer
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Widewing,
Well, learn something new about military history every day from you guys, well every day i read the message boards. Was it pressed into service as a fighter through choice? Or through insufficent numbers of fighters being available at certin times when those battles took place?
Imagine what it could do with a couple 20mm's :)
Generally, the SBD was used to supplement the Wildcats, when most of the Wildcats were escorting strikes. Overall, they performed well as the anti-torpedo bomber screen.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Turbot
I have never heard it put better. God bless La7 pilots :)
The nature of VVS planes is that you start 70% of your fights from disadvantage. Though I love those who dive on me, they often end in full wings on 20mm after an overshoots :)
I think that la5 is one of the good plane to learn flying. It is average turner, average roller, has guns which requirs good firering discipline, it can't go high or fight on equal terms over 12k, so it often fight defensive. After new pilots out of their spits, niki's, p51s and la7s, they shall fly something like la5, yakT, 109g6, 205. Will be a pain initially, but with time it will give a great school.
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Doh! Where's Lazs when you need him? I knew I had him on the ropes, but it seems he's face down on the canvas. :D
Come on, Lazs. I'm not through with you yet. Come out and fight. But don't say I didn't warn you: I may be beaten in the virtual skies, but I never lose a fight on these boards.
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beetle... you are kidding right? I said your K/D was about 1.5/1 for the last three tours. go to the only spot that totals K/D and average your K/D for the last three complete tours. It comes out allmost exactly 1.5/1 go back farther and your average drops.. You can allso see that you don't do to well in Kills per hour which would tend to lead me to think that you fly very carefully.
you get killed... you get killed.. that's all there is to it. What you are doing is your bussiness but... We could all just pick one plane stat or another out of the whole and show outrageous K/d stats for that one little microcosm..
overall... you suck. face it like a man.
lazs
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Oh... and... When have you ever won even one fight on the BB with anyone? Mostly you end up backpeddling and apolodgizing.
In the U.S.... backpeddling and apolodgizing are not considered signs of victory (except by some politicians). you will end up apolodgizing and back pedling eventually on this thread too so why not get it over with now... I mean... you really don't know anything about the La7 and you would do poorly in it. The best La 7 pilots would kill you no matter what you are in..
but... the thread was about using the plane to attack superior numbers and having a chance of getting home, or better yet, frustrating the vultchers. for that it is a wonderful weapon for the arena.... the arena as it is now that is. My point is that I will use it as such but would much rather find a fight that is not condusive to La7 use. If someone in an La7 enters the kind of fights I like he will simply feel left out. He will not be much of a threat to me. I don't fear him like you do because I don't face him on his terms where he is art the advantage.
We know what kind of fights I like... So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Yea, La7 isn't much use in a twisty turny furball, its low speed handling isn't up to the task. Plus it actually accelerates to well for that, it'll overshoot if you arent real careful. It is good for cherry-picking though, you can hang around the edges of a furball and pick stragglers or damaged planes off, and then run away from anyone who actually comes looking to kill you. Thats how most people use the La7.
La7 is excellent for goon-hunting, and picking off the occasional Rook/Bish/Knight 'mission' guy who is smart enough to look for the yahoo drilling all the goons. Thats what I use it for when I fly it, and when I really feel like killing 4 guys who just gangbanged whatever other plane I was flying.
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yep urchin... I agree. I normally don't have too much problem if it is a big fight with the La7 the sissies hanging out at the edge won't engage if it means leaving themselves vulnerable. And besides.... They are pretty easy to dodge in both the FM2 and the -1A in my opinion. They are not too durable and don't like getting pinged.. If you ping one he will run home. I would like about 10% of thefields to be about 10% closer together for better gameplay for us mid war and the early war guys.
lazs
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Lazs, I don’t need to launch any personal attacks on you. By the time I’m done here, the facts will have provided all the material I need to expose you for the fraud that you are.
I would just like to quote some of the things you have said in this thread, so that I can reference them later.
[list=1]- The arena has become a lot more "timid" lately (you know who you are).
- The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?) flyers to kill themselves first
- I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane. (the LA7)
- You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour...
- beet1e... my math may be faulty but.... your k/d for the last three tours that have been completed is.... 2.56/1 1.30/1 and .66/1
- Oh... and... When have you ever won even one fight on the BB with anyone? Mostly you end up backpeddling and apolodgizing.
- I mean... you really don't know anything about the La7 and you would do poorly in it. The best La 7 pilots would kill you no matter what you are in..
- So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
- If someone in an La7 enters the kind of fights I like he will simply feel left out. He will not be much of a threat to me. I don't fear him like you do because I don't face him on his terms where he is art the advantage.
- We know what kind of fights I like... So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
Well I’m going to have fun with this lot. :D Look, Lazs, before we go any further, I want to introduce you to a new word in the English language. That word is ”substantiate”. It means providing evidence to corroborate what you say. I will need to use the word a lot in this post. Now I appreciate that you have a learning disability, and that your comprehension skills are not quite as one would wish, but if you learn nothing else today, at least learn the meaning of “substantiate”.
Just looking at points 1 and 2, I can’t help noticing how fond you are of using the word “timid”. You use it in other threads too. What are you saying here? Are you saying that players are not allowed to fly the way they want? Are you saying they must adhere to your protocol? In addition to wanting YOUR planes on YOUR map with the fields spaced the way YOU want, are you now saying that folks have got to fly the way YOU want so that YOU can “win” on YOUR terms? What exactly are you saying?
Your powers of comprehension seem to have abandoned you when you said: I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane.
Lazs, I know enough of the LA7. I know that it’s one of the fastest prop planes in the game. I know it can run down a P51 or P47. I know it’s flown by many a dweeb, including yourself. What more do I need to know? I was killed only twice by an LA7 last tour, and I killed 17 of them – more than any other plane except the N1K2 – I got 22 of those. I have already said you wont see me in an LA7, so what else do you suggest I need to know about this plane?
Next, your mathematical skills and ability to search the stats page completely let you down: You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour...
Total fabrication, and barefaced lies! Did you not read what I said above? Did you not know that in addition to fighter sorties, many of my missions are jabo sorties and that I score these as Attack sorties? Did you take the trouble to check the Attack sortie stats? No, you did not. You were too busy being an obnoxious smart arse. Please refer to the screen shot above. You accuse me of not knowing the first thing about the arena. Do you know the first thing about the scoring and stats system? Did you not read the part where I said I got 969 kills in the last three tours? Are you unable to comprehend? Do you disbelieve HTC? Do you disbelieve me?
Oh... and... When have you ever won even one fight on the BB with anyone? Mostly you end up backpeddling and apolodgizing.
Lazs, it would serve your cause better if you could at least spell the words you use to assassinate my character. The correct spellings would have been “back-pedalling” and “apologizing”. I will allow US spelling, and I will also allow your inability to spell correctly, as this would require learning abilities, and powers of comprehension. But let us not digress too far. To return to your point, you are way off. I have posted well in excess of 400 posts on this board. I have apologised twice. Once to nopoop, for saying something unkind which was unwarranted, and once to yourself – same reason, because I couldn’t bear the thought of you crying yourself to sleep. I am not ashamed to apologise (UK spelling) when I’m wrong, so it’s no use trying to embarrass me. As to your statement, you are completely unable to substantiate what you said about my doing that “most of the time”. I mean... you really don't know anything about the La7 and you would do poorly in it. The best La 7 pilots would kill you no matter what you are in..
Oh no, not this again. :( How many more times, Lazs? What do I have to do to convince you that I will not be flying the LAzs-7 any time soon, and that I have been killed fewer than four times by an LA7 in any of the last three tours? Where are all these LA7 wonder-pilots? I don’t seem to run into many, although I did have an interesting one-on-one fight with kyle not long ago. He performed very well against my F4U-1C, but not quite well enough, and I killed him. Was a good fight though. But most tours, I don’t see many LA7s that end up killing me, so I am unable to make sense of Quote #7. We know what kind of fights I like... So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
Ah yes, I see that it’s not just learning and comprehension that let you down. It’s reading as well! If you would refer to one of my posts above, you will see that I enjoy flying the P47 in historical re-enactments, as far as that is possible in the AH MA. I also enjoy fighting the war, thereby adding meaning to all the air to air skirmishes. I’m not interested in the futility-furball crap that keeps you occupied, or of counting kills per hour, as this is a totally unrealistic method of assessment, but we wont go into that. If someone in an La7 enters the kind of fights I like he will simply feel left out. He will not be much of a threat to me. I don't fear him like you do
Yet again, you assert that I “fear” the LA7. Yet again, I must ask you to substantiate what you say with FACTS. I have already done so – using figures that can be obtained from the scoreboard, were you to take the trouble to learn how to use it properly.
Well Lazs, you’re not looking so clever now, are you? It’s easy to slag people off when you don’t bother to provide the facts to back it up, but much harder to do that when you have to substantiate what you say. Your last post was like a LA7 dweeb scoring a vulch, and then running away. I understand you have had your BBS privileges suspended in the past, and the reason this happened becomes clearer by the day.
I don’t particularly care for having to emblazon my stats across these boards for all the world to see – the data is freely available to those who know how to retrieve them, but I realise that does not include you. I have, however, attached some screenshots which display my stats the way I view them. The LA7 ones are perhaps the most relevant – a k/d against them of 14/3 and 17/2 for tours 31 and 32 respectively.
No, my reasons for this post are not to try to convince you of anything, as I don’t give a toss what you think. But I take exception to having you misrepresent my stats to the rest of the community, and then adding embellishments which are nothing short of a tissue of lies. I want the rest of the community to read what you have said, and what I have said, and check the facts for themselves. My main reason for posting here is to expose you as the self-centred, abusive, abrasive and devious lying toad that you are.
Goodnight, Lazs, and don’t wet the pillow on my account. :D
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expose you as the self-centred, abusive...
It's correct spelling is "centered" where I hale from..
..not to knitpick mind you
Regardless, it WAS a lovely sentence..
:D
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He's from Britain, goofball. They spell it centre there. You should have just said 'nanny nanny poo poo, stick your head in doodoo' Beetle. Lazs is just messing with you. He's probably laughing himself into an embolism reading your reply too.
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This thread is getting pretty good. For this reason alone everyone reading this thread gets a picture of MR T to view for absolutely free!
Keep up the good work gents.
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Poopster - so noted, but
It's correct spelling is "centered" where I hale from..
That would be "hail", and there would be no apostrophe in It's in that context. :D:D
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Well...
Beet1e you are indeed correct... I saw that apostrophe and KNEW I was dead in the water :D
But if I threw in an edit, I would have been cheating :)
On a side note:
Touched up photo's really turn my spigot.
THIS is the photo before Thrila got his hand in it.
DON'T HIDE THE TRUTH !!!
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Yo! Sucka!
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Last one.:D
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Thrila, that one literally put me on the floor. I had to take 5 minutes to recover to be able to type and my face still aches from laughing.
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Originally posted by Fariz
The nature of VVS planes is that you start 70% of your fights from disadvantage.
To date I have yet to see any thug in the tower forcing someone to up against their will at any airfield. Ergo I reject this 70% theory. If you have been somehow forced into such a 70% practice Fariz, please let us know, because something really should be done. If, on the otherhand, you are explaining how you feel about your personal flight choice - that is another matter :)
P.S. (I have not seen many La7, but I have warmly welcomed those I have encountered this tour:
turbot has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times against the La-7.)
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This indeed is hilarious. Can you imagine him bent over the keyboard all serious?
Companies have been started in less amount of effort. Lol.
Laz, that's the best tweak ever. No more time was ever wasted , to blabber about nothing, in rebuttle to you. Classic.
Cheers!
Poor Beetle, what a fool.
OK Lazs, the gloves are coming off.
Lazs, I don’t need to launch any personal attacks on you. By the time I’m done here, the facts will have provided all the material I need to expose you for the fraud that you are.
I would just like to quote some of the things you have said in this thread, so that I can reference them later.
quote:
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The arena has become a lot more "timid" lately (you know who you are).
The More "timid" of the horde allow the suicide (is suicide typhie a bish initiation rite?) flyers to kill themselves first
I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane. (the LA7)
You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour...
beet1e... my math may be faulty but.... your k/d for the last three tours that have been completed is.... 2.56/1 1.30/1 and .66/1
Oh... and... When have you ever won even one fight on the BB with anyone? Mostly you end up backpeddling and apolodgizing.
I mean... you really don't know anything about the La7 and you would do poorly in it. The best La 7 pilots would kill you no matter what you are in..
So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
If someone in an La7 enters the kind of fights I like he will simply feel left out. He will not be much of a threat to me. I don't fear him like you do because I don't face him on his terms where he is art the advantage.
We know what kind of fights I like... So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
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Well I’m going to have fun with this lot. Look, Lazs, before we go any further, I want to introduce you to a new word in the English language. That word is ”substantiate”. It means providing evidence to corroborate what you say. I will need to use the word a lot in this post. Now I appreciate that you have a learning disability, and that your comprehension skills are not quite as one would wish, but if you learn nothing else today, at least learn the meaning of “substantiate”.
Just looking at points 1 and 2, I can’t help noticing how fond you are of using the word “timid”. You use it in other threads too. What are you saying here? Are you saying that players are not allowed to fly the way they want? Are you saying they must adhere to your protocol? In addition to wanting YOUR planes on YOUR map with the fields spaced the way YOU want, are you now saying that folks have got to fly the way YOU want so that YOU can “win” on YOUR terms? What exactly are you saying?
Your powers of comprehension seem to have abandoned you when you said:
quote:
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I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane.
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Lazs, I know enough of the LA7. I know that it’s one of the fastest prop planes in the game. I know it can run down a P51 or P47. I know it’s flown by many a dweeb, including yourself. What more do I need to know? I was killed only twice by an LA7 last tour, and I killed 17 of them – more than any other plane except the N1K2 – I got 22 of those. I have already said you wont see me in an LA7, so what else do you suggest I need to know about this plane?
Next, your mathematical skills and ability to search the stats page completely let you down:
quote:
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You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour...
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Total fabrication, and barefaced lies! Did you not read what I said above? Did you not know that in addition to fighter sorties, many of my missions are jabo sorties and that I score these as Attack sorties? Did you take the trouble to check the Attack sortie stats? No, you did not. You were too busy being an obnoxious smart arse. Please refer to the screen shot above. You accuse me of not knowing the first thing about the arena. Do you know the first thing about the scoring and stats system? Did you not read the part where I said I got 969 kills in the last three tours? Are you unable to comprehend? Do you disbelieve HTC? Do you disbelieve me?
quote:
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Oh... and... When have you ever won even one fight on the BB with anyone? Mostly you end up backpeddling and apolodgizing.
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Lazs, it would serve your cause better if you could at least spell the words you use to assassinate my character. The correct spellings would have been “back-pedalling” and “apologizing”. I will allow US spelling, and I will also allow your inability to spell correctly, as this would require learning abilities, and powers of comprehension. But let us not digress too far. To return to your point, you are way off. I have posted well in excess of 400 posts on this board. I have apologised twice. Once to nopoop, for saying something unkind which was unwarranted, and once to yourself – same reason, because I couldn’t bear the thought of you crying yourself to sleep. I am not ashamed to apologise (UK spelling) when I’m wrong, so it’s no use trying to embarrass me. As to your statement, you are completely unable to substantiate what you said about my doing that “most of the time”.
quote:
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I mean... you really don't know anything about the La7 and you would do poorly in it. The best La 7 pilots would kill you no matter what you are in..
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Oh no, not this again. How many more times, Lazs? What do I have to do to convince you that I will not be flying the LAzs-7 any time soon, and that I have been killed fewer than four times by an LA7 in any of the last three tours? Where are all these LA7 wonder-pilots? I don’t seem to run into many, although I did have an interesting one-on-one fight with kyle not long ago. He performed very well against my F4U-1C, but not quite well enough, and I killed him. Was a good fight though. But most tours, I don’t see many LA7s that end up killing me, so I am unable to make sense of Quote #7.
quote:
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We know what kind of fights I like... So... what kind of fights do you like? Let's hear about the kind of fights you seek out and why the big bad La7 is such boogy man to you.
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Ah yes, I see that it’s not just learning and comprehension that let you down. It’s reading as well! If you would refer to one of my posts above, you will see that I enjoy flying the P47 in historical re-enactments, as far as that is possible in the AH MA. I also enjoy fighting the war, thereby adding meaning to all the air to air skirmishes. I’m not interested in the futility-furball crap that keeps you occupied, or of counting kills per hour, as this is a totally unrealistic method of assessment, but we wont go into that.
quote:
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If someone in an La7 enters the kind of fights I like he will simply feel left out. He will not be much of a threat to me. I don't fear him like you do
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Yet again, you assert that I “fear” the LA7. Yet again, I must ask you to substantiate what you say with FACTS. I have already done so – using figures that can be obtained from the scoreboard, were you to take the trouble to learn how to use it properly.
Well Lazs, you’re not looking so clever now, are you? It’s easy to slag people off when you don’t bother to provide the facts to back it up, but much harder to do that when you have to substantiate what you say. Your last post was like a LA7 dweeb scoring a vulch, and then running away. I understand you have had your BBS privileges suspended in the past, and the reason this happened becomes clearer by the day.
No, my reasons for this post are not to try to convince you of anything, as I don’t give a toss what you think. But I take exception to having you misrepresent my stats to the rest of the community, and then adding embellishments which are nothing short of a tissue of lies. I want the rest of the community to read what you have said, and what I have said, and check the facts for themselves. My main reason for posting here is to expose you as the self-centred, abusive, abrasive and devious lying toad that you are.
Goodnight, Lazs, and don’t wet the pillow on my account.
__________________
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Originally posted by Turbot
To date I have yet to see any thug in the tower forcing someone to up against their will at any airfield. Ergo I reject this 70% theory. If you have been somehow forced into such a 70% practice Fariz, please let us know, because something really should be done. If, on the otherhand, you are explaining how you feel about your personal flight choice - that is another matter :)
P.S. (I have not seen many La7, but I have warmly welcomed those I have encountered this tour:
turbot has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times against the La-7.)
Turbot, you can chose it the way, when you will fight 100% of your fights in any plane from advantage, including c47. What I say is an average figures. When I get 109 and climb it to its normal start alt, which is around 12-15k, I see almost all VVS planes bellow me, not above me. When I get any VVS plane in a normal situation, I get it to operational alt of 10-12k, and majority of p51s and 190s go over my head, and bounce me. I can dive and escape, rejecting them fight when in la7, but I can't do it in la5 for example. And I do not even need other pilots accounts here, it is a simple logic of a plane performanses. If you have no enough expirience to understand it, get p51, go to 15k and count vvs planes which will bounce you, and which you will bounce. Good luck.
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LA7's don't ever run from SBD's, they simply set up for another pass at them, fly to the strengths of your a/c, only a fool would try and fight an sbd by getting low and slow.
Laugh all you like when an LA7 "extends", he's not frightened, he's just getting ready to kill ya :D
wipass
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Hmmm what i find utterly amusing is the amount of people who fly the La7 and 'claim' they suck in it and yet maintain a 2 to 1 death ratio even when they are using it for defence where just about any of the other SO CALLED uber rides would struggle to get off the ground!
The La7 is a simple plane.It has acceleration,tops speeds down low is highly manouverable climbs well and carries great armement.Its easy to use in a way where you can get 2 or 3 kills normally 4 or 5 before you are caught by base attackers.
For me the reason i dislike the la7 is due to the fact it can be both a BnZer and a turn and burner. its easy to switch from one mode to the next. it can hold its zoom well and is stable in the stall which affords easy shots in the rope.
Its too easy/boring to just be able to do whatever you ask of an aircraft after too long in a plane.
now if these guys flew something that had a drawback like a slow speed or poor guns etc and the STILL got those kills then id say they were good pilots. Otherwise if you are an old hand in AH and youre flying it your just being lazy (or greedy :))
At least with the so called uber 190d9 or P51D you are limited in what you can ask of it.in order to survive and win sometimes you are forced to perform good ACM to trick your oponnt and win.In La7s you can outturn most if not just out run them turn and boom em. LAZY I SAY :D
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beetle... hit "scores" and then "pilot scores". You may then enter "beet1e".... You will see that, overall, said pilot averages less thatn 1.5/1 K/D for the last 3-4 tours. dress it up any way you like but.... you suck.
you will also note that said pilot has never flown a La7 so knows nothing about how to fly it.
a death is a death... hide behind jabo or whatever but you died. I know those suicide tiffies I kill are dying. I want there and your timid scores to reflect it.
also note that for the last year my total La7 sorties are... what? less than a dozen? less than what? 1/10th of one percent of my total?
also note... that timid was a mere observation and is "substantiated" by your pitiful kills/per hour stats.
also note that beet1e spells better than lazs, creamo or the poopster. In his case tho... it just makes him seem prissy and effeminate.
beetle... I hated to rip you to sreds and make you look totaly folish and prove that you are both insane and untruthful but.... What choice did I have? you forced me against my normal good nature.
as the limey's say.... There you have it.
lazs7 er... Lazs (hope I don't forget my password 5 more times)
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Ambassador of good wil
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I score Lazs's "you suck" as much more refeshing and effective versus Beetles long winded 1000 word, I've said nothing post.
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Lazs - hit stats. You may then enter "beet1e".... For tour 32, you will see 328 kills, 98 deaths - a k/d of better than 3.28 to one.
Now, because this includes ALL plane types, gun positions, PT Boats, Tanks etc - you need now to hit the "kills in" and "died in" links to display k/d stats for all plane types. And there you will see the following: - F4U-1c 63k, 15d = 4.2/1.
- P47D30 33k, 9d = 3.66/1 (jabo is so risky!)
- P47D25 33k, 2d = 16½/1. (ah that's better)
Is this the microcosm you spoke of? OK, well lets continue... - Spit ix 9k, 3d = 3/1.
- 190A5 13k, 7d = almost 2/1, but not quite :)
I do believe, Lazs, that you will have to concede that you were wrong when you said and kill maybe 50 planes a tour...
And...you will also note that said pilot has never flown a La7 so knows nothing about how to fly it.
I don't need to know how to fly it. I know how to kill it, and that's fine for me! :D
If you would now click Kills of and Killed by, you can view my LA7 stats. killed 17, killed by 2. Which is what I said all long. :D:D
If you're saying that the two versions of the scoreboard are at odds with eachother, complain to HTC. You're good at that. And don't think that you can score a victory over me by posting crap, as lies don't count. .you forced me against my normal good nature.
LOL!!! I take it you were having an "abnormal" day when you got banned from this BBS? :D:D
Rude! "You suck" - the height of sarcasm and wit? :rolleyes: I think it scores zero for originality, whereas I focussed on FACTS. Anyway, it doesn't matter now. I hope this one was sufficiently breef for you to read.
I leave you with a short film - hardly Oscar material - of another moment when I "feared" an LA7 - LOL!
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Originally posted by beet1e
I leave you with a short film - hardly Oscar material - of another moment when I "feared" an LA7 - LOL!
No offense, but posting films of you swooping in to blast some total newbie's La7 away with an F4U-1C isn't really helping your case.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Damn, thats the only way I kill em to.. I don't suck too, do I? Guys...?
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Originally posted by lazs2
a death is a death... hide behind jabo or whatever but you died. I know those suicide tiffies I kill are dying. I want there and your timid scores to reflect it.
As an AH n00b I’m going to do my best to improve the image of the poor typhoon. I blame the bishops fully for its bad reputation. :D
As far as the LA7—it is a dangerous little speedster that can pick with the best of them… :mad: But that is part of the game—to each his own.
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DMF -
No offense, but posting films of you swooping in to blast some total newbie's La7 away with an F4U-1C isn't really helping your case.
I agree, the film was not intended to show any prowess on my part. I actually followed the guy for a lot longer than shown, but had to trim the file to fit this board. Two points I was trying to make: - LA7 flown by noobs/tards/dweebs, which is what I said a long way up this thread, and
- I'm not afraid to have a go. I don't "fear" them, as Lazs has repeatedly stated, amongst his other lies.
My "case" as you put it, was simply to expose Lazs. I had already done that before posting that film.
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we need more posts from Thrila...and probably less from some other people, but still a pretty good thread.
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Originally posted by wipass
LA7's don't ever run from SBD's, they simply set up for another pass at them, fly to the strengths of your a/c, only a fool would try and fight an sbd by getting low and slow.
Laugh all you like when an LA7 "extends", he's not frightened, he's just getting ready to kill ya :D
wipass
To date, I've killed 4 La-7s with the SBD, and lost one to same (over two tours). Now, either we have a huge number of "fools", or there's something else in play. 1v1, the La-7 will probably never even get a guns solution on a skillfully flown SBD. It's like hunting a housefly with a sword. On the other hand, forcing an overshoot is easy. When the La-7 goes whistling by, it gets the old lead enema. Two or three doses of that and the La-7 pilot will be regretting his decision to engage.
Of course, the above assumes that the Lavochkin will have the tactical advantage at the outset. SBDs are dogs in the speed department. Therefore, it is essential to have enough altitude so that speed is available. Typically, when the enemy sees my SBD, they're looking up in disbelief. As often as not, the first real good look they get is at their leisure while suspended from a parachute. Remember the three basic rules: Altitude, speed and stealth. With all three of those in your pocket, any aircraft can dictate the terms of engagement.
My regards,
Widewing
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DMF... when you kill 5 planes or less per hour then .... swooping in to blindside some unsuspecting (or unconsious) dweeb learning the game in a La7 is... the height of excitement. And ... it does prove that if the attack is totally risk free.... he has no fear of a sleeping la7
beetle... your kill/death ratio is less than 1.5/1 average for the last three tours. you are so timid that you can barely eek out 5 kills in an hour even at that.
you know nothing about what it takes to fly and survive in a La7 since you have never flown one online.
nonetheless..... you are one of the most outspoken detractors of of the la7... you act as tho the plane is a personal slap in the face. you also took the opportunity to espouse your views in this thread even tho you have no idea what the thread was about.
even if you read the thread.... you would have nothing to say since you have no experiance and the opinion you do have on the matter is completely tainted and without merit.
plus... you suck.
I admit that I am no expert on the la7 but I at least try it out once in a very great while. I maintain that my original premis was correct and that it works well for what I was talking about.... Not only that but... the la7 is far less dweeby in that case than the people I am using it against.. Nothing you have said has changed or even chalenged any of that.... all you have done is proven that.....
you suck.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Ambassador to what's left of britan for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
DMF... when you kill 5 planes or less per hour then ....
It is possible he only gets to fly the pizza :D
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popcorn anyone ?
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Well Lazs, we seem to have come full circle. You are quite resolute in refusing to accept the FACTS as presented. My brother always told me you can't argue with a bigot. I don't need your help to read (or misread, or manipulate) score data presented by HTC. With your skills at that, you should have been an Accountant at Enron! I know what I know, and you know what you know. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I pulled up the score page *your* way for T32. And guess what? Exactly as I said all along - you had checked fighter stats but not attack stats. On attack sortie points, it's telling me that I ranked 69th against objects, and 48th against enemies. :confused: I don't claim to understand fully how those calculations are made, which is why I use the stats page, which presents an amalgamation of fighter/attack/other data from which you can make your own assessments. Anyhow, if being in the top 100 on those counts means that I suck, then I guess I suck! LOL :D
Just understand one thing. I don't care if I suck or if I blow, whether I'm an ace or a dweeb. But what I do object to is being falsely represented on this board by an egocentric bigot unwilling and/or unable to admit when he's wrong.
One last thing about the kills/hour stat. Lazs, it's a waste of time bringing that up. It's like me saying to you "your record of capturing fields is abysmal", and so it is. But I know you don't care about that, so I don't waste your time with it. By the same token, you should put a sock in it about the k/t. It's a real Game-the-Game stat, and I think you know it. :)
Still looking for those LA7 wonder pilots. Just think, Lazs, after you've been banned from the BBS five more times, you'll be able to come back as Lazs7 - ROFL! :p :D :p :D :p
Do write soon, and don't forget to tell me I suck, as you've only told me about six times so far. ;)
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Originally posted by lazs2
also note that beet1e spells better than lazs, creamo or the poopster. In his case tho... it just makes him seem prissy and effeminate.
LMAO
You guys are funny :D
Hey Bettle...I wanna cold beer too ;)
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Drunky - sure! But you can't have it until after Lazs reminds me that I suck. Don't worry - it won't be long - ROFL!
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quote:
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Originally posted by lazs2
also note that beet1e spells better than lazs, creamo or the poopster. In his case tho... it just makes him seem prissy and effeminate.
nah, its called educated.
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beetle.. go to the only page that gives K/D stats.. the only page that gives K/hour... that is what I had said. HTC created that page and put those stats there. If you have a problem with em then you, not me, are the one who should take it up with HTC... I find them quite revealing.
Bigot? Now I'm a bigot?
Oh... the page I am refering to can be viewed in browsers other than IE.. I believe that HTC did it this way so that even people with out IE could see how much.....
you suck.
I am sure that he also offers those stats in brail so that even blind people can see just how much....
you suck
sunking... no... on some people it is called educated. In his case it is just prissy. I don't really believe that making a case for any kind of competence/spelling relationship would work out all that well on this board and sim tho.... considering...
also..beetle, I will freely admit that I am the worst jabo/attack simmer in AH if you will face the fact that your Klls per hour stat shows how timid and fussy you are. I would also like you to admit that you know nothing at all about the La7 except how to ambush one and would be quite happy if you quit pretending to be an expert on what they are and what kind of simmers fly em.
lazs
Puiblic relations officer for the BK's
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Oh.. for "attack" for the last three tours.. you average a K/D of 1.6 and a kills per hour of 5 somewhat better but it still appears that....
you suck.
The fact that you are in the top 100 with such sucky stats proves my point about people who attack bases more than yours. but.. sticking to the point is not one of your strengths
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Still looking for those LA7 wonder pilots.
if you:
a) dropped down from 30k
b) wandered away from your friendly acks and
c) broke free of the borg mentality
you might actually find one.
:D
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and... this may just be a rumor but...
I heard that HTC was gonna publish the pilot scores in the ladies home journal so that even women could see that...
beet1e sucks.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Shane – when I’m lumbering along in the P47D30 with 2500# of bombs and possibly 10 rockets, 30K is the last place you’ll find me at! But I’ve heard you’re good... Yes I do wander away from the friendly acks – helps me to get my bombs on target. :D:D As for the Borg mentality, I used to belong to a jabo squad in WB called IAF-BORG – LOL!
Hi Lazs! Thank you for reminding me that I suck. It’s been what, 24 hours? I’d almost forgotten that I suck. :) I can laugh about it now because after the first seven or eight times, it loses all its impact, and it didn’t have much to begin with. I see that about 2 hours elapsed between your last two posts, and all you were able to add was “you suck”, and a bit about the ladies journal. :eek: Geez, my 11 year old niece could do better than that – and she’s 14 now. And as for originality and wit, Lazs, I’ve seen more inspiring writings on a lavatory wall than I see in your posts. Feel the hate, Lazs. Because I can feel you feeling that hate, and you know what? I like that feeling. I saw your posts 3 hours ago, but I've been here, watching TV and drinking red wine and letting you sweat it out. :p
Just a few more quotes from Lazs - also note that for the last year my total La7 sorties are... what? less than a dozen? less than what? 1/10th of one percent of my total?
I’ll take your word for that. Do you think a dozen sorties is a representative sample with which to hold an opinion on a particular plane? You seem to think so. After all, you started an entire new thread about it – this one. We could all just pick one plane stat or another out of the whole and show outrageous K/d stats for that one little microcosm..
My thoughts entirely! I’ve been trying to tell you that for the past 2-3 days, but you wouldn’t listen. :rolleyes: No-one else has tackled me on the stats I have posted which leads me to believe there’s not much wrong with them, whereas I have seen you, Lazs, tackled on this board a number of times for your egocentric disposition. I would also like you to admit that you know nothing at all about the La7 except how to ambush one and would be quite happy if you quit pretending to be an expert on what they are and what kind of simmers fly em.
I can’t. I already know it’s fast, and therefore I can’t claim to know nothing at all about it! And I never, but never, claimed to be an expert about it. I let my stats (the ones you can’t find because they’re not in Braille) put my case. The fact that you are in the top 100
Awwwww.... thought you’d never notice! To tell you the honest truth, I hadn’t – until you pointed me at that page. BTW – did I call you a bigot directly? Probably not, but I could tell you already knew the word. Hmmm, I wonder why... ;) but.. sticking to the point is not one of your strengths
Oh, well at least I HAVE a point that I can't stick to - LOL!
- Because he refuses to see all but a small subset of data, Lazs shows that he is
- Incapable of forming an objective opinion, but is obsessed with
- Game-the-Game stats that mean nothing. He writes an LA7 post with no
- Objective other than that of getting under everyone's skin. But let him rant, as no-one gives a
- Toss what he thinks anyway.
Well, Skuzzy. What do you think now? Lazs has become tedious, and seems capable only of reiterating the somewhat infantile refrain of "you suck". I would like to continue our debate, but it's hard to respond to posts so demonstrably lacking in intellect. Indeed, I consider it beneath me to respond to Lazs.
I shall be leaving these shores for a few days to visit France - another European country which Lazs would describe as a "pissant" nation, so wont be here to soak up Lazs's humour and wit. Maybe you'll want to give this thread the padlock treatment? But don't do it for me. I can handle Lazs :D
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Drunky! Sorry, I almost forgot. Lazs has told me I suck, so now I can give you that beer. Understand that I can't give you one (beer) every time he tells me I suck, else you might contract cirrhosis of the liver - LOL!
Here you go - have this one. It's got Lazs's name on it, and a picture of the two of us arguing. :D:D:D
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LOL
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well... lets see if we can make any sense at all out of beetles latest wall-0-words...
nope.. nothing there... I said you were in the top 100?? don't think so but if I did... I was wrong.. last three tours.. fighter and overall rank respectively... 535th 396th and 1117th 583rd and 2249th 1140th hardly "top 100" I don't really care about score till someone brags about it.
bigot? hmm... maybe people reading the Oclub will decide which of us is the bigot.
I have flown the La7 very little... as I said. I also said that I had "found" a good use for it in killing a couple of vultchers and being able to make it back (survive). That would be called...
the point of the original post. The one you never read. you simply seen La7 and went off on your predictable bigitoted and ill informed la7 rant.
sooo... what I am calling you on (basicly) is your unfounded bragging about your abilities and your bigoted and off topic, ill informed La7 rant. As you can see... someone like you who is on such shakey ground on these things would have been better off to simply stay quiet and learn something (or spend the time practicing).
as it is... rather than everyone suspecting that you suck... you have brought it all out in the open.
lazs
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Originally posted by Urchin
I am sort of surprised that people seem to have such a low opinion of the LA-7. As a fighter I mean. It is a superb fighter, in my opinion only being slightly less well rounded overall than the P-51. The P-51 gets the nod from me because it has excellent low speed handling and the La-7 doesn't. Of course, the La-7 driver never has to get to low speed if he doesn't want to, and he can go from 200 to 300 mph in about 3 seconds flat. I think the La-7 is probably the 'best' plane for a lone-wolf pilot, or someone who is fighting without squaddies in an area where his team is outnumbered by 3 or more to 1 (which is pretty standard in the MA).
Like I said before, the La-7 in the MA is mostly flown by mediocre pilots that don't really know how to fight. They know how to run, and they know how to BnZ, but as far as actually fighting 1v1 goes, 95% of them haven't got a clue. If you can sucker them into a situation where they'll expose themselves to a shot without realizing it, you can generally kill them. Of course, if you screw up (at least in the 190s and 109s I normally fly) they'll wear you down in an extended fight.
I missed this thread. Reading this post reminded me of a couple nights ago. I was in a 109g10 chasing a p-51d across the deck. I'd peel away to see if he'd turn around but no, he was headed home. I looked away for a sec, then look for his dot and he was gone? I looked closer, looked all around, nothing. We were about 5 miles from his base, no way he coulda landed it without me seeing him.
Soo, I see a 109 and engage him. Next thing I know here comes an LA-7 blasting in from the nearby enemy field. I tangle with the 109 and LA-7 for a short before I collide with the 109 and tumble in close enough to the LA-7 so he gets the kill on me. :)
The LA-7 pilot was the pony I was chasing earlier. He apparently augered so he could up an LA-7 to fight me with. :D
LA-7's are dangerous on the deck. But I fear YAK's more one-on-one.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I've always been of the opinion that the uber-good late war birds need a small perk value placed on them... for nothing else, to slow down the arena and bring back parity.
Same here. Prolly too late in the game to do that now. Can you imagine the protests?
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The only problem I've got with perking the 'uber late-war' birds is whats the criteria? Uber or Late-war? Cause if you say 'ok, lets perk all the 1944 and up planes 5 points' you've just perked the entire USAAF planeset except for the P-47D-11. And maybe our P-51B.
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Perking based on popularity is the only thing that ever made a whole lot of sense to me. Of course, the new mission arena will give us an environment the early war planes can be competitive in.
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speaking of the new mission arena... any word on when we'll get it ?
can't friggin wait
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Lazs -
sooo... what I am calling you on (basicly) is your unfounded bragging about your abilities and your bigoted and off topic, ill informed La7 rant. As you can see... someone like you who is on such shakey ground on these things would have been better off to simply stay quiet and learn something (or spend the time practicing).
I was thinking that about you. You flew less than a dozen sorties in the LAzs7, and yet you saw fit to come on here pontificating about it. And don't tell me that you had anything positive to say. The real purpose of your thread came about when you said Sooo... I been upping in a lag once in a while in those situations. very satisfying to hit the fat lazy vutchers in the lag.. sure, you can only get one or maybe two before you have to bug out but.... it is so gratifying to see the conga line of cowardly missun types peel off one by one as they realize that thier meal is escaping.
You set out to stir things up. At least when I do it, I'm honest about it. So don't come here running your mouth about the role of the LAzs7, when the real reason you're here is to take a swipe at a certain segment of the community. (That segment does not include me, but hey - I'm sensitive. You said so yourself after I apologised for making you wet the pillow)
As for my suckage, I'm losing count of how many times you have said it and so I'm thinking: For you to have to tell me as often as you do, it cannot be that obvious that I suck. A bit like telling the Elephant man that he's ugly.
Erich Hartmann sucked. He only got 352 kills in a war that lasted about 55,000 hours, so a k/t of around 0.0064 - pitiful. Cowboy Roan was another WW2 dweeb. I don't think he ever got any kills at all. He was a B17 pilot. I've met him.
Ah what's that you say? It's just a game? Well let's game the game, and then we can manipulate the stats any way we want. Let's forget the "war" (which you've already done) and just play to the scoreboard. Ummm... would that prove anything? :confused:
May have to take a break here. Early start tomorrow, as I'm off to see the pissants in France. By the way, Lazs, there's talk of another 10 countries wanting to acquire "pissant" status. Read all about it.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Erich Hartmann sucked. He only got 352 kills in a war that lasted about 55,000 hours, so a k/t of around 0.0064 - pitiful. Cowboy Roan was another WW2 dweeb. I don't think he ever got any kills at all. He was a B17 pilot. I've met him.
Ummm are you comparing stats of RL combat pilots that put their lives on the line every-time they went up with your virtual life/record?
You have got to be kidding me!
:rolleyes:
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everyone knows hartmann had inflated numbers, anyway.
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If every other pilot in WWII had a kill per hour time of 6-10 then yeah.... Hartman would have been thought of as sucking.
beet1e...I also believe that there was no hidden agenda in my original post. I am not bright enough to decieve people in any case. I would say tho that all of your posts have been wall-0-words intended as smoke and mirrors so that people won't see that.....
you suck.
my original post never implied that I was an expert on the La7 and it's uses... in fact it stated the oppossite. That I was learning some ways to use it that I felt were legit.. You, on the other hand, who have absolutely no experiance flying it went on your normal rant about how easy it is to fly and how dweeby anyone is that flys it. Even you must see the irony and hypocracy of it.
Oh... what one has to ask about your euro jaunts... will the country visited by you be more or less of a pissant for your having been there... I think we all know the answer to that.
lazs
lazs
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MWHUN! - Of course I'm kidding. :) The point I was making was that it's absurd to measure pilot performance by kills per hour. That's a GAME stat, and as we can see, folks manipulate game stats by dictating what the parameters of the game should be - spacing of fields, size of map etc. This whole thing I've got going with Lazs is moot because at prime time where Lazs lives there could well be more than 500 online, whereas when I log on (Euro/pissant day time) there may be fewer than 100 online. Now Lazs himself is condemnatory of the pizza map, and one assumes that his own k/t went down the toilet because he said there were "no fights" -(arena too big, too many fields or whatever). So by saying that, it is clear that the concentration of planes in the arena will have a direct impact on k/t, including Lazs's. But of course Lazs, being a bigot, cannot see that because he only sees a small corner of the total picture, and has only his own way of seeing that! Sure, people might get high k/t k/d k/s k/x - but only as a result of artificially created parameters which they themselves have helped to determine. People pissed and moaned about the pizza map, so the old maps came back - see what I mean?
The other matter is that Lazs discounts any type of sortie, except his own. You will see him talking about "missuns", "strat-potatos", and other defamatory terms to describe those people he despises. He's already pissed off a bunch of bomber guys - that I know for a fact. So it's quite absurd to do what Lazs does, which is to measure all flights in terms of k/t. How can you rate a bombing run in terms of kills? :confused:
Lazs! You, on the other hand, who have absolutely no experiance flying it went on your normal rant about how easy it is to fly and how dweeby anyone is that flys it.
Nope. I said it has incredible performance - fastest unperked prop plane in the game and, having come up against it (and having flown it OFFLINE) have found it can turn and manoeuvre extremely well. And I am not alone in saying that it thus becomes the natural choice of tards/dweebs who are sufficiently skilled to fly something more challenging.
Thank you for reminding me that I suck - I keep forgetting!
I guess you're saying that France will become more of a pissant country when I'm there. The bad news is, according to your reckoning, that there are 41 pissant states in the USA - the ones that I've been to - including California! :D Well Lazs, this really has to be the last one till after the weekend. We leave at 4am tomorrow. :( Tomato is already asleep, and purring softly. I must tiptoe away now, and switch the lights off.
Oh, and Lazs - you're still a bigot, and you will remain a bigot until further notice.
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whaaaat? the fluffers hate me? Oh well.. they shook my hand at the con.
beetle.. flying offline is ok but to do it and then talk about how well that plane does in MA combat.... turns and such against multiple real opponents.... silly. Go ahead and do some testing and show the numbers and then see if they hold up in the arena. The arena is a very different thing. Just looking at the La7's K/D is proof.
As for your kills per hour... I only took your fighter kills per hour... the kills you made while you were flying "fighter".
you have really chosen a unique way to.... as you put it... "never lose a BB arguement".
lazs
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Lazs – I’m all mellowed out following the trip to the French Riviera. Got back this morning. Talked about you a lot with Tomato, and she has questions about your AH3000 which I’ll post next time. As for the LA7, I realise we’ve both been saying the same – it’s not much of a threat. In tour 32, I got killed twice by them, and you got killed four times by an LA7. No big deal. :) I repeat – I don’t mind you saying I suck. But just don’t do it on the strength of incomplete/misleading stats.
The trip to France was full of surprises, and not without disaster. On Friday, I had had two large coffees at breakfast, and had to stop for a comfort break while driving from Cannes to St. Raphael. At the roadside I found a secluded spot, and “achieved comfort”. But then I noticed something moving just in front of me. I had disturbed an ants’ nest, and the infuriated creatures were scurrying all over the place, none too pleased at the not-so-cold shower they’d just received. And then I realised the severity of my actions. I had just created a whole new colony of pissants. :eek:
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I don't have an Austin Healey 3000.
lazs
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** silly stuff deleted ** :D
Shane was right. We've argued enough, and my last remarks were way off topic.
Lazs - have a nice day.
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Originally posted by beet1e
So noted.
you hear skuzzy, too?
:D