Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on October 04, 2002, 06:50:49 PM
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Here ya go:
Tour 32 (http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Tour32/Tour32.htm)
AKDejaVu
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Thank you for the effort
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Am I the only one who thinks the p40's eny(both B and E) is waaaaaay too low?
The only planes in tour 32 to have fewer kills than the p40B was the boston(p40b beat it by three kills) and the ar234. The D3a has almost twice as many kills, it doesnt even come close to the 202, spit1, or 110C.
The P-40E just BARELY edges out the 202.
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wtg P-47 drivers :cool:
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Stats can be so cool. Out of the top five killers, the P-51D is the only one who can't get a favorable K/D ratio. Also, as I run down the list, most American aircraft suffer from the same problem. F6F, P38, F4U1D, P47D30. FM2 dishes out more than it takes though. I'm surprised the F4U-1 does too...probably because I stopped flying her this last tour.
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FM2 is underestimated BIGtime that's why it does so well. People tend to ignore you if the sky is full of P51's, F4Us, La7s etc. Especially Zeroes, I swatted 5 of them yesterday without a scratch :-)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Here ya go:
Tour 32 (http://www.users.qwest.net/~stainesdavidwbon/webs/Tour32/Tour32.htm)
AKDejaVu
A few of the Stat pages can't be found on the server, such as the SBD.
Thanks again for the time expended on this very useful data.
My regards,
Widewing
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That's odd... the FTP proggy usually loads them sequentially... and the pages behind them are just fine. I'll get it fixed when I get home.
Thanks for the heads up.
AKDejaVu
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Spit 14: 500 kills, 1.6 K/D
FW-190D9: 10,000 kills, 1.6 K/D
HTC should look at some of the perk ratings.
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Shut up whiner....
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I dunno, if there was ever a candidate for a new perk, the 190d9 is very much one. That and the La7 of course.
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the d9 only gets 4 % of the total kills in the main. Its hardly "unbalancing". It took the chog to get up around 20% kills.
K/d has nothing to do with t.
The d9 based on service introduction date and overall numbers produced would be enough to justify perking it.
Ht has said he doesnt perk planes based on performance alone. There is no clear pattern to him perking planes.
Even the la7 only gets under 9% of the the total kills. No where near chog levels.
If ht decides to perk planes based on numbers produced, service date then I would be all for it. Perk every plane from 1944 on ward.
The p51d is "used" more then any other plane in the main. But it still get less then 10% of the kills. Its also consistantly the most shot down ac in ah. One could argue that if any plane needs perking its the p51d.
The spit 9 is the one best "arena" a/c in the main. Its also slow. Theres no way to justify perking it.
Overall imho there is no need to perk any of our current unperked a/c until there are more mid to early variants introduced.
Perking the d9 wont make for better main arena play. Same with the la7. Perking the la7 will just make us see more p51ds. Perking the p51d will mean more la7s.
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The la7's speed is only half of what makes it the exceptional aircraft it is.
The dora, p51d, typhoon, etc are all very fast on the deck, but should not be perked(Unless you go into a "perk the 1944 monsters" mode) They're fast, but not in the same league as the la7 for one reason.
Accelleration.
A dora, p51d, or tiffie can't get into a slow turnfight, reverse, and simply accellerate away when they get in trouble. It's not being able to go fast that makes the la7 the monster it is, running/extending is completly valid, and many other planes can do it. Perking the la7 won't leave "the next best plane" to take it's place, because there is nothing else like it.
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they will go to the 51, 51 is fast otd and its lo speed handling is much better then the la7s.
The la7 has sea level is all. The 51 has speed throughout.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Spit 14: 500 kills, 1.6 K/D
FW-190D9: 10,000 kills, 1.6 K/D
HTC should look at some of the perk ratings.
LOL you are a banana :rolleyes:
The P-51 has over 29,000 kills...PERK IT
The N1K has a K/D of 1.3 and over 26,000 kills...PERK IT
Typhoon has a K/D of 1.3 and almost 20,000 kills...PERK IT
The Ta15s has a K/D of 2.8...OMFG PERK IT
The La7 has a 1.3 K/D and almost 27,000 kills...PERK IT
The F4U-4 has a 2.2 K/D and 690 kills...This means that F4U-4 pilots are better than Spit 14 pilots
Your stats only prove that the Spit14 isn't flown as much as the D9 since they have the same K/D but the D9 has more kills.
The perk wars are stupid spit dweeb :eek:
[edit] The spitfires turn too good OMFG...WHY HAVEN'T THEY BEEN PERKED...IT'S UNFAIR...WHINE, WHINE, WHINE
Instead of worrying if other planes are perked perhaps the Spit 14 pilots should learn how to fly the damn thing first :p [/edit]
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Originally posted by Wotan
they will go to the 51, 51 is fast otd and its lo speed handling is much better then the la7s.
p51d has better low speed handling than the La7 ? Shhhh, listen. Do you hear that ? cuckoo.. cuckoo
The La7 climbs like a rocket, accelerates like one too, turns quite nicely . The P51d accelerates like a sloth and climbs like a snail, it can however out turn p47's and trains though .
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Originally posted by -ammo-
I dunno, if there was ever a candidate for a new perk, the 190d9 is very much one. That and the La7 of course.
P47-D25 has a 1.4 K/D
P47D-11 has a 1.7 K/D
Perk 'em both IMO.
I also noticed that the D9 is the third most likely to kill you:
1) P-51 16 kills
2) SpitIX 11 kills
3) 190-D9 10 kills
4) La-7 6 kills
Funny you should consider the D9 and La-7 (only non_us plane on this list) a "perk" candidate :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:
Regards
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yea, I based my comments on an underlying motive. It is a conspiracy you know. We all hate you nazi flyers.
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The missun types definately should leave the F4U's to the fighter crowd...
Lawn darting after "thingy" release is spoiling the Hogs numbers..
WHASSSUUUUUUUUUUP WIT DAT ???
When your hangin thingys off you plane...
Use a Tiffy :D
Us reeel fiter pilots would greatly appreciate it..
Regards,
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Originally posted by -ammo-
We all hate you nazi flyers.
Not trying to sound like Hillary Clinton, "There is a major right wing conspiracy"...BUT
There are many, many other good planes to worry about than the D9.
The D9 is the plane that JG/2 flies the most often when together. We tend to do well in this plane (noted in another post) and this might skew the overall numbers.
Notice that everyone is screaming about perking the La-7. Think about this...the La-7 has a 1.3 K/D for Tour 32 with a total of 2,593 kills. Holy Kills Batman, perk this plane because it's UBER...LOL.
This is a matter of perception really (and yes numbers can lie if they are presented (in)correctly).
There are many other planes that can outperform the D9 in many categories. As has been pointed out about the La-7 (the plane may be uber, but not the pilot) it comes down to the pilot being able to fly his/her plane well.
Screaming about perking a plane is whinning, plane (sp hehehe) and simple.
Rhetorical questions follow:
Should we perk every plane that has a 1.0 K/D ratio and above?
Should we perk every plane that has total kills over 2,000?
Think...then speak.
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I've thought about it..
Mulled it over, looked at both sides...
Pondered...
Slept on it..
And...
After all of that thinking..
Words escape me...
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who is screaming?
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I flown the p51d Samm as a matter fact for a short time I was in 51 squad. The 51d handles better at slow speeds then the la7.
yea, I based my comments on an underlying motive. It is a conspiracy you know. We all hate you nazi flyers.
Ammo thats uncalled for.
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Indeed...I am guilty of over-dramatization as those who want to perk a plane. ;) No one has screamed.
For that I apologize :p
My points are the same, notwithstanding.
Also please note that JG/2 accounted for over 6% during Tour 32 (838 of 13,697) of the 190D9 kills during Tour 32.
:D
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Wotan if by handle better you mean has a larger sustained turn radius and higher stall speed then I guess you're right .
I can't even get an La to spin but a p51d will spin on me when I'm not even trying to spin it .
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its not an arguement believe what you want. imho the p51d handles better at low speeds then the la7.
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If it were subjective then it would be a matter of opinion .
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Originally posted by Samm
Wotan if by handle better you mean has a larger sustained turn radius and higher stall speed then I guess you're right .
I can't even get an La to spin but a p51d will spin on me when I'm not even trying to spin it .
Wotan is both right, and wrong.
The p51d, flaps out will turn inside an la7 without trouble. This SOUNDS good except that the la7 doesn't get into a low speed turning fight unless it's pilot is chopping the throttle.
So the p51d drops flaps and starts turning, la7 flies straight for a few seconds, goes vertical, and ganks the now helpless p51.
The speed of the la7 merely exaggerates it's unbelievable acceleration.
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Even with flaps the p51b won't turn inside an La7 on the deck. Do some tests .
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Originally posted by Drunky
Indeed...I am guilty of over-dramatization as those who want to perk a plane. ;) No one has screamed.
For that I apologize :p
My points are the same, notwithstanding.
Also please note that JG/2 accounted for over 6% during Tour 32 (838 of 13,697) of the 190D9 kills during Tour 32.
:D
I apologize too for the Nazi comment. I was only trying over-dramatize myself:)
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My squad had a significant impact on the D11 and D25 statistics. We are responsible for 23% of all the D25 Kills and 20% of all the D11 kills for tour 32
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What we need is a top ten pilots list for each type. Then you could see how the various planes really stack up. There are a lot of guys out there that simply pork the stats of the planes they fly. The P51D is the most popular plane, because it is so well known. Everybody new just has to try one. While they are in the learning process, and discover that the P51 is a deathtrap for newbies (contrary to its UBER status) the newbie hears channel one chatter about the UBER La7, so they try that next and pork its status too. Lather, rinse, repeat. Finally, they come down to channel two.
Newbie: "What's the best fighter to fly?"
Common answer: "Try a Spit"
Then the Spit gots porked, too.
My K/D in the La7 was 26.75:1 (107 kills and 4 deaths). It should have been over 50:1, but I snuck above 3k twice and fleet ack got me both times. I did get killed twice by actually users (tailgunners if I remember correctly). If, I can do that and I know I'm no wonder stick, then what can the really good pilots do with it?
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Well I see the monthly tour stats are up, followed by the monthly perk whine. Man I could set my clock by you cat's. Although I must add that it's fun to watch. I'm only sad at the fact that those of us in the 56th weren't able to out K/D the D9. I was so looking forward to having the P-47D-25 mentioned more often in the perk it portion of the thread. Oh well maybe next tour.
Carry on citizens, nothing more to see here:D :D
Avid
P.S. Perk the damned LA-7's I need more Shane whines for my 15 frog pelts.
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Voss is onto something ;)
Hehe, thats why you can never go by the overal stats on aircraft abilities.
Booky
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Perks are a monitary system-thing and therefore based on the principals of cost and value. Value here is based on the principal of substitution (and solely that because there is no limit to the numbers available of any particular aircraft so it's not a demand/supply thing.) Why should the average player take a month of his time to save for a lousy F4U-4 when it really doesn't perform any better than the LA-7 in the furball arena that the MA is. What seems to be lacking to me are perk rides that are actually worth it to the common player. I see no big deal in perking the LA7, D9 and 51D at a very miniscule perk cost and it would only have the slightest impact on their numbers seen in the arena. It seems retarded to me how the perk system currently works because there is very little that is viable to spend your perks on if you are average. I would love to see stats on who are flying the F4U-4 and Spit14 because I bet the vast majority of those people have hords of perk points. The typical player is probably going to just bypass these aircraft and save for the ME262 and not risk those points on something not much better than the LA7. Point being, what's the big deal to perk a few aircraft to fill the 3-10 range? I won't fly the F4U-4 in the MA because at my skill level, it took me a long time to earn those points and I don't want to blow them on just a few very expensive flights. The ME262 is a different story because there is no "free" substitute for it.
And if you have more than a 2:1 K/D ratio overall, you do not represent the average player in the arena when you speak about how easy plane-X is to kill. I'm not ashamed to admit that I cannot kill a LA7 1v1 in a Mustang or Corsair vs a pilot at my skill level or above.
woops, can't type K/D with : in place of /. K:D
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"I see no big deal in perking the LA7, D9 and 51D at a very miniscule perk cost and it would only have the slightest impact on their numbers seen in the arena. "
Well the LA7 and 51D ARE already costing you perks every time you kill something with them.
Land 10 kills in a P-51D, then land the same 10 kills in a F4U-1 and note the difference.
J_A_B
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Perk Emoticons.
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And if you have more than a 2:1 K/D ratio overall, you do not represent the average player in the arena
So Mr. Puke with your current K/D you definately underrate your current position in the scheme of things :D
As far as perks your looking at it from the wrong end. The purpose for the perk is to reduce the census of the selected a/c. In that, it works VERY well for the very reasons you yourself explained.
Why would someone fly the F4U4 or a Spit 14 with their price tag if they are marginally better or worse than the non perked planes..
So they aren't flown. Hence the perk works. :)
On the other hand if they were not perked, it would be all you see.
I have bank, and I'm going to spend it on the FOUR. Cuz I love the big blue.
Jet's don't ring my bell and I can't hit the state of Nevada with cannon :D
With fifties Rhode Island is within the realm of possibilities...
..on a good day
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I have seen you fly nopoop, you suck. But there is hope, just watch lazs, drex, apache and you will get better. Take notes.
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I'm not even going to dip my toe in the perk argument.
NICE WORK DejaVu!!!
Thank you.
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What impresses me the most I think is how the Typhoon manages a 1.2 K/D despite being the Suicide Jabo plane of choice. Those Typh suiciders must be remembering to hit "attack" before flying :)
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Voss
If, I can do that and I know I'm no wonder stick, then what can the really good pilots do with it?
I was listening to Drex at the con, and he mentioned reversing a spit in the C47. That should give you some idea what =drex= can do in anything with wings.
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As far as perks your looking at it from the wrong end. The purpose for the perk is to reduce the census of the selected a/c. In that, it works VERY well for the very reasons you yourself explained.
Mr. Nopoop, we do not disagree and I'm not arguing anything against this. In fact, perking the LA7 and 51D isn't such a bad thing due to their numbers in the MA. A slight perk on the D9, 51D and LA7 would have a small impact on their use but I'm not so sure the MA would be a worse place with a couple fewer of them flying around. So in that regards, I understand and agree with the use of a perk system. But I'm guessing that to many who fly here and who are just "average Joe", the perks were hard-won and a very valuable commodity and to have to risk fifty of them all in one shot is daunting...and why waste them on something that really doesn't perform much better (if at all) than the free LA7. I don't know, I just think it would be more exciting if the perk system was fleshed out more and there were rides of a much more affordable cost that could be used on a regular basis by the majority.
My ultimate perk system would involve not only the aircraft, but a comparison of player rank as a modifier to determing the perks awarded a victor. A highly ranked player (a great stick) flying an LA7 would get almost no perks shooting down an average player in an F4U-1D. That same situation with the players interchanged would then provide more perks to the LA7 pilot. Pilot skill plays a huge part in the difficulty of victory in an engagement.
Land 10 kills in a P-51D, then land the same 10 kills in a F4U-1 and note the difference.
For about three or four tours (maybe more) I concentrated on the F4U-1. Yes, it's great at earning the perks. I'm not talking about earning perks though...I'm literally talking about the cost and risk of perk points. Spending what you've collected. 60 perks is nothing to many people in here. To others who have a lesser success rate and/or can only fly a few hours per month, why pay 50 perks for an F4U-4 when it won't enhance your success much over an LA7 which is free. I'm guessing a player earns more perks in the LA7 over an F4U-4 too. May as well keep flying that LA7 and eventually save enough for the ME262 instead of risking 50 or 60 in one shot and having to start saving all over again.
But that's just one dog's opinion.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
What impresses me the most I think is how the Typhoon manages a 1.2 K/D despite being the Suicide Jabo plane of choice. Those Typh suiciders must be remembering to hit "attack" before flying :)
J_A_B
These stats have nothing to do with type of sortie selection.
If someone suicided into a building with no enemy near (and having not been pinged by someone still flying), it would not show in these stats. Only kills that were awarded to someone are recorded in the "stats" pages.
AKDejaVu
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Well then, that makes the Typhoon drivers' accomplishments even more impressive then.
Typhoon drivers :)
J_A_B
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"To others who have a lesser success rate and/or can only fly a few hours per month, why pay 50 perks for an F4U-4 when it won't enhance your success much over an LA7 which is free. "
Actually I'm one of those players who builds up perks only at a very slow rate. Why? Because I'm basically paying a bunch of perks to fly my choice ride (51D).
You make a good point though regarding the current perked aircraft. Perhaps "midrange" perk planes (152, F4U4, spit14)should have a higher ENY value than average? This would serve to make them somewhat more rewarding to fly.
Right now the perk system charges you if you lose a perk plane, AND charges you for every plane you shoot down.
J_A_B
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The "quality" of pilots I hope we be sorted out once and for all in the current squad duel series.
At that time, please factor this into your numbers :)
I am 16 to 1 K/D in 152 but nobody mentioning that plane. Raw numbers tell you NOTHING.
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I constantly see this notion that perking the P51D, La7, and 190D9 will magically make all the chickenshits stop running. It won't. They'll move to the Tiffie. Perk the Tiffie and they'll move to (probably) the P-51B. Perk that and the 109-G10 would be the next to go. There will always be a 'fastest' plane. Eventually it would get to the point where the only unperked planes are the Spit I and 109E, and even then the Spit drivers would be squeaking about those chickenshits in the 109s that won't fight.
I know that to many the La7 is seen as some sort of Anti-Christ plane that magically transforms the pilot into a super-ace. It doesn't. Is the La-7 the refuge of choice for many mediocre pilots? Yes it is. Should it be perked because of that? No it shouldn't.
And as much as I squeak about getting gangbanged in the MA, I put myself in those situations. Why? I dunno, maybe I have an overinflated sense of my own skill as a pilot. But even in a plane like the 190A-5 (no speed demon by any stretch of the imagination) it is relatively easy to avoid La-7s and the like. I'm simply flying a bit higher than normal (moved from 10-12k to 15-18k) in areas where there are a significant amount of bad guys and a relative lack of friendlies. From there it is a matter of awareness. Now, the early early war planes are in a lot of trouble, because they are totally outclassed by everything in the MA. It would be nice to have a little area where only early-war planes could fly (a la Lazs). But even a mid-war plane like the 190A-5, or 109G-2, or P-47 (though it is tougher IMO) can survive and even thrive in our late war arena. Assuming your are cautious about what situations you put yourself in (which I'm usually not).
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Originally posted by Puke
Perks are a monitary system-thing and therefore based on the principals of cost and value. Value here is based on the principal of substitution (and solely that because there is no limit to the numbers available of any particular aircraft so it's not a demand/supply thing.) Why should the average player take a month of his time to save for a lousy F4U-4 when it really doesn't perform any better than the LA-7 in the furball arena that the MA is. What seems to be lacking to me are perk rides that are actually worth it to the common player. I see no big deal in perking the LA7, D9 and 51D at a very miniscule perk cost and it would only have the slightest impact on their numbers seen in the arena. It seems retarded to me how the perk system currently works because there is very little that is viable to spend your perks on if you are average. I would love to see stats on who are flying the F4U-4 and Spit14 because I bet the vast majority of those people have hords of perk points. The typical player is probably going to just bypass these aircraft and save for the ME262 and not risk those points on something not much better than the LA7. Point being, what's the big deal to perk a few aircraft to fill the 3-10 range? I won't fly the F4U-4 in the MA because at my skill level, it took me a long time to earn those points and I don't want to blow them on just a few very expensive flights. The ME262 is a different story because there is no "free" substitute for it.
And if you have more than a 2:1 K/D ratio overall, you do not represent the average player in the arena when you speak about how easy plane-X is to kill. I'm not ashamed to admit that I cannot kill a LA7 1v1 in a Mustang or Corsair vs a pilot at my skill level or above.
woops, can't type K/D with : in place of /. K:D
Regardless of how your perk, the players you hope to hamstring will laugh at the cost. I am sorry for the bad news.
Edit to add: I know of one player for sure with over 6,000 fighter perks. He doesn't even fly the planes you would liked additionally perked, so you would have to come up with a new reason to hate him/her.
At some point, somebody is just gpoing to be better than somebody else - no matter how much hand holding you try to do. That's life, that's war, that's the game. Sorry.
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Originally posted by poopster
Why would someone fly the F4U4 or a Spit 14 with their price tag if they are marginally better or worse than the non perked planes..
So they aren't flown. Hence the perk works. :)
On the other hand if they were not perked, it would be all you see.
Somewhere between no-usage, and taking over the arena, lies the truth.
IMO, eliminating the 152/spit14/f4u4 gangbang tags, without touching the costs would increase usage, without making them as common as say, the chog.
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Originally posted by Innominate
Somewhere between no-usage, and taking over the arena, lies the truth.
IMO, eliminating the 152/spit14/f4u4 gangbang tags, without touching the costs would increase usage, without making them as common as say, the chog.
I am 16:1 in 152 (the one being on auto pilot while watching Andromeda season premier)
I am 2:0 F4u4 becuase I only flown it once and had to hurry for CAP event
(I don't fly jet any more, I hate it and kill nothing)
The enemy already wants to kill me no matter what i'm in, If they do stupid stuff chasing a perk tag, they can RIP :) AT one time I agreed with this perk tag removal. Now honestly I don't care - if you are flying offensively - it doesn't matter.
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Perk the 190A5 its über! :D
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I think that if you fly a perk plane in the arena then you should be identified as such. The arena is lopsided enough without hiding the perk planes.
I also think that all the 109/190's should be identifies as well as the f4f's and the f4u's and 51's and most of all.... the spit variants.
lazs
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I agree with lazs.
Besides... what would you call a 152? The Spit14 and F4u-4 would be easy... but you'd outright have to lie about the 152.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Samm
If it were subjective then it would be a matter of opinion .
I don’t know about it being subjective and I’m not running any tests.
The fact remains though, the easiest way to kill an LA7 is to get the fight down to stall speeds as quickly as possible. The LA7 is by far the worst aircraft, non perk that is, to try and keep control of when low and slow.
I’d venture to say a brick has a better sustained turn rate at stall speeds than the LA7 does.
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La7 turns about as well as a 109G-10 at stall speeds. That is to say that it will outturn any of the 190s, probably any of the P47s, and thats about it.
P-51D turns a lot better with flaps at low speeds than most people give it credit for.
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Originally posted by Urchin
La7 turns about as well as a 109G-10 at stall speeds. That is to say that it will outturn any of the 190s, probably any of the P47s, and thats about it.
A fully loaded cement truck going flat out on a sheet of ice can out turn the 190s.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
yea, I based my comments on an underlying motive. It is a conspiracy you know. We all hate you nazi flyers.
Shame shame, shame on you......you used the "N" Word!
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Zip you are correct the la7 handles terribly at lo speeds. The 51 is much better.
Its not subjective, Samm is wrong but its not worth argueing about.
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Regardless of how your perk, the players you hope to hamstring will laugh at the cost. I am sorry for the bad news.
Turbot, I think this was in reference to me. However, this has nothing to do with anything I was talking about. I wasn't looking to use the perks as a tool to hamstring players. Quite the opposite, to give players something viable to use their perks on.
Well the LA7 and 51D ARE already costing you perks every time you kill something with them.
Yes, and no. You sorta touch upon the idea of "opportunity cost." However, I think overall you are incorrect because in the long run you get more kills in a 51D or LA7 than you probably woud in a lower performing aircraft. Yeah, per kill you don't earn as much, but you kill more and there lies the benefit.
Zip you are correct the la7 handles terribly at lo speeds. The 51 is much better.
Wotan, if the LA7 decides to stay slow, I'd agree. All the LA7 has to do is let up off the stick a little and put the throttle to the firewall and it can get to a speed where it is more controllable while the 51 still wallows around trying to accelerate to where it can make some semblance of a turn. With a higher speed and a lag turn or a more nose high turn, it can stay with a 51 no problem. In my personal opinion, acceleration is the best attribute a fighter can have, even more so than turning ability and the LA7 has this in spades. But generally, the best turners in here also are the best at acceleration too.
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I have seen you fly nopoop, you suck
..and a single pistol shot is heard from the backyard at poop's house
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In my opinion... LA-7 is one of if not the best non-perked plane. (Of course, pilots fly different ways and certain planes can match up with their skills better) I flew P51-D a lot, but given the alt of most of the current contacts... I would get more kills and survive more in an LA-7. P51-D is fast, but there are many situations when it is flat out overmatched. P51-D's run a lot because... well... they have to. LA-7 can take off and fight in seconds... compare that to the P51-D that takes minutes really. P51-D is deadly if you have the patience to use it right... but you can feel as vulnerable as a 262 landing if you don't watch it. Every plane has strengths and weaknesses... overall I just think the LA-7 is tough to beat.
The reason the LA-7 doesn't have amazing KD ratio is because I doubt too many great pilots are flying it. And those great pilots (and there are a lot of you out there) flying worse planes can still outmatch bad pilots in an LA-7. It is hard to make anything of the overall KD ratios really.
I'm sure some math wiz out there could come up with an idea on how to accurately rank the plane set... it would have to involve taking into account the skill of the pilot in the plane (I guess you'd have to use ranking) Consider the gauntlet thrown down.
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"you get more kills in a 51D or LA7 than you probably woud in a lower performing aircraft"
I would get FAR more kills flying a Spit5 or F6F or P-38 or 190A5 or MC205 or a host of other aircraft which have a better ENY than the 51D has. I fly the 51D because it was my chosen ride in AW and it served me well there, not because I think it's a particularly good aircraft for the AH MA. In fact, I tend to feel it's a bit out of its element in the MA.
J_A_B
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huh? jab? The pony is superb in the MA enviroment. its fast, and agile with potent a gun package.
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yep.... I really don't see a problem with carving out a little spot at the bottom of the huge unweildy pizza map and having it an "early war only" planes area.. it would make the rest of the map smaller and more manageable too... imagine if people actually looked forward to the pizz map and the poor AK's could get rid of the nervous twitch they have developed.
just one simple way to make some of the unsused planes more useful and add parity and variety.
lazs
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I would get FAR more kills flying a Spit5 or F6F or P-38 or 190A5 or MC205 or a host of other aircraft which have a better ENY than the 51D has.
JAB, as of right now, you have a 40-to-3 kill ratio on the 51D. I'm not sure what you are complaining about. You want more perks for those kills?
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Oh I wasn't complaining about anything, you misunderstand me. I'm perfectly fine with getting so few points for my kills.
I'm just trying to make a point for the "light perk" crowd that the people flying the 51D/LA7/Spit/N1K already ARE paying a couple perks per flight if they kill stuff in these planes, and they don't necessarily get any more kills than they would in higher-ENY planes.
J_A_B
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JAB, roger on that. I actually wrote what I did really quickly as I was late for work. In fact, even edited it but wasn't able to do a good job of it. Yes, I understand what you are saying and though I do not agree with it, your point is valid. What you bring up is a topic which is in the gray area. I mean, you can start nitpicking opportunity costs and all that down to the fact of how fast it takes you to get to the furball and the slower aircraft is then foregoing potentially earned perks over taking a faster aircraft. A whole host of things like that. But really, to just keep it simple, I just would like to see a more reasonably tierd perk system where there are a few planes in the 3-10 range and which are very affordable to the common player. Again, some work hard for 50 perks and to risk them on an F4U-4 which hardly flies any better than an LA7 is riduculous for most. So they either save for the 200 Me262 or they could be using them on aircraft more reasonably priced...and what goes hand-in-hand with that, the LA7 and 51Ds might see a .05% decrease in their useage which is not such a bad thing based on what I see in the MA. (Or, there'd be a slight increase in the F4U-4 and Spit14 with a decrease in their cost. Would it be unbalancing to see an extra percent of either of those in the MA?) If you use all your perkies, fly that F4U-1 once or twice and you have enough to fly these "arena monsters" a few times again.
That's my point. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's just a personal preference. In a way, I'm casting my vote for the direction of Aces High...though I understand clearly that Aces High is not a democracy. ;-)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
I agree with lazs.
Besides... what would you call a 152? The Spit14 and F4u-4 would be easy... but you'd outright have to lie about the 152.
AKDejaVu
I dunno about that -in any case the wide wings make it easy to spot.
"In 1944, the Reichluftfahrtministerium (German Air Ministry or RLM) decreed that all new fighter aircraft designations must include the chief designer's name. Thus was born the Ta 152, named for Kurt Tank, chief of design at the Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau G. m. b. H. Except for designation, the Ta 152 series is directly related to, and a natural development of, the Fw 190. "
"During the fall of 1944, Tank converted an existing Fw 190 prototype airframe (Werk-Nummer or serial number 0040) into the Ta 152H prototype."
(http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasmicons/lockup.jpg)
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/focke_ta152.htm
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Hey Turbot...
That is a great picture and link :D
Whoever gave you that link must be a really great guy ;) :p
LOL hehehe
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Meh...
The La7 has weaknesses. Poor pitch control at high AoA with a tendency to snap roll. High E-retention resulting in poor turn radius, a tendency to overshoot and high G's (Pile-it is usually blacked out for half the flight). Low fuel loadout, hit the main tank and it drains in a minute. Gun ballastics drop like rocks. Terrible low 12 view.
Any knights want to learn how to shake (and kill) any La7 including those with Alt-E-and-speed apart from Kbman and Shane call me next time I'm in the MA.
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Originally posted by Wotan
I flown the p51d Samm as a matter fact for a short time I was in 51 squad. The 51d handles better at slow speeds then the la7.
You mind elaborating on that statement Wotan?
Handling characteristics
The LA7 rolls better than the P-51 at low speed
The LA7 accelerates better than the P-51 starting from a low speed
The LA7 has a tighter turn radius and can accelerate while turning inside the P-51s best turn.
The P-51 may be more stable in flight when approaching stall speeds, but if a P-51 is fighting an LA7 nearing stall speeds, the P-51 is dead if the LA7 has half a clue.
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Turn radius is pretty irrelavant on a plane able to accelerate away from a slow fight, without any risk of being shot. If you miss the snapshot in an la7, you can be at an e dis-advantage and still escape.
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elaborate? its clear as day what I meant.....:)
When do you fly at low speeds anyway :p
Read vulcan and zips replies. One of the easiest ways to fight an la7 is a slow scissor.
Most la7s dont have half a clue, they wont use their accelleration to maintain e.
The 51d handles better at slow speeds then the la7.
That statement means exactly what I said, at lo speeds the 51 handles better. All the other stuff about accelleration and being dead meat when lo and slow applies to any plane fighting an la7.
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Originally posted by Drunky
There are many, many other good planes to worry about than the D9.
The D9 is the plane that JG/2 flies the most often when together. We tend to do well in this plane (noted in another post) and this might skew the overall numbers.
There are many other planes that can outperform the D9 in many categories. As has been pointed out about the La-7 (the plane may be uber, but not the pilot) it comes down to the pilot being able to fly his/her plane well.
I would agree. I flew the D9 over the weekend and really wasn't impressed with it. Maybe that's because I flew it like I do the other 190s, or maybe it was because I'd never flown it before. I think the reason the D9 is getting such a favorable rating is because the pilots that fly it know what they're doing with it.
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Originally posted by Puck
A fully loaded cement truck going flat out on a sheet of ice can out turn the 190s.
I would strongly agree with this. You can roll a 190, but it won't change pitch without the stall warning going off. There's nothing more hair-raising in a 190 than a low-alt high-speed stall with a torque roll twist and an LA-7 chasing your fumes.
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The funny thing is the 190D-9 is much better suited to the sort of flying most P-51 fliers do. The 51's benefits over the D-9 don't really show up unless you mic it up a little more.
J_A_B
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Midnight, if you want to, come to the DA with me and I'll show you what I mean when I say the P-51D handles better in a knife fight than the La-7. It can be a pretty good fight, but the P-51 actually has more 'wiggle room' than the La7 in my opinion.
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The 51 can perform better higher up then the d9. 190s dont perform well above 20k.
between 15 and 10k they are in their element.